Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the AFC Energy full-year results for 2024 presentation. Throughout today's meeting, investors will be in listen-only mode. Questions are encouraged and can be submitted at any time using the Q&A tab situated on the right-hand corner of your screen. Before we begin, we'd like to submit the following poll, and I'm sure the company will be most grateful for your participation. I'd now like to hand over to CEO John Wilson. Good afternoon.
Thank you, Mark, and good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today for our FY 2024 results presentation. With me is my colleague and CFO, Karl Bostock.
Good afternoon.
Okay, typical disclaimer. I'm sure everyone can read that with great distinction. Moving on to an agenda. We're going to run you through what we term the Hydrogen Challenge, provide financial updates, FY 2024 delivery, our purpose and new strategy, outlook, and then we'll take the questions of which I know there's a number that have come in. I look forward to answering those. In terms of an overview, I think it's worth just providing, taking a step back and providing a kind of overview as to what AFC Energy's total end-to-end offering is. We effectively take ammonia molecules from a third party that supply those. We convert those ammonia molecules to hydrogen molecules with our Hyamtec cracking technology. We obviously launched the Hy-5, which is the first product in what will be a range of Hyamtec products yesterday.
We can convert those hydrogen molecules into electricity that our fuel cell generator systems can then use to power. In terms of the Hydrogen Challenge, what we have outlined in our announcement on Wednesday is a shift from what we are calling a technology-led to a market-led growth strategy. It is looking at pushing the market rather than waiting for the market to come to us. That leads to a complete reset in terms of our strategic thinking and also how we are going to approach productization in the future. As I said in the last IMC meeting, and also I think this is convention in the industry, hydrogen is difficult and the hydrogen economy is held back by cost and infrastructure challenges.
What we've attempted to do in the very brief time that we've been here is look to see how we can break down those barriers so that we can be a first mover in this space. Our solution is effectively threefold. Focusing on the power generators, H-Power generators, we're looking at significantly reducing the manufacturing cost of those prior to a next run at scale. That is important because price is a barrier to entry. What we are competing with on construction sites are diesel generators that are at a much lower price point. We need to work to deliver that cost reduction, and we have line of sight to be able to do that. We also need to commercialize Hyamtec through productization of its core technology.
Hyamtec has world-beating technology, but technology in itself, whilst it has inherent value, does not deliver revenue. As I mentioned earlier, and as you have seen on Wednesday, we launched the Hy-5, which will be our first foray into generating revenue through Hyamtec technology. That is at a disruptive price point. That is our real advantage. At GBP 10 a kilo, we are significantly lower than anyone out there on the market. To put that into context, we supply hydrogen fuel with our H-Power generators at GBP 65 a kilo currently. Finally, to provide an end-to-end hydrogen solution at cost parity with diesel generators for off-grid applications. What that allows us to do is from next year be completely competitive with diesel. We can swap out at the same cost, swap diesel generators at the same cost.
We don't need to wait for government-mandated projects that deem that diesel can't be used or only hydrogen can be used. We can do that competitively now. That makes our business model immediately commercially viable. We also have an ambition, and that ambition is to obviously achieve that cost parity without relying on government subsidies. This is also a key point. Government subsidies can be pulled at any moment in time with changes of governments and not necessarily on a whim, but close to being on a whim. That in itself creates ambiguity and a level of nervousness in terms of investment within the industry. Being able to provide that cost parity without government subsidies is truly transformational in the industry.
As a result of that, we put ourselves in a position where we have dominance initially in this country in terms of the production of hydrogen and what we deem and call fuel as a service. What that does is it builds recurring revenue model streams. In terms of shareholder value creation, it significantly increases that because we've got line of sight of those recurring revenues. Finally, we look to significantly expand that regional reach, which will drive acceptance and adoption through what is market disruption. We're disrupting the market with the price point that we can produce hydrogen. Now over to Karl to run through the numbers.
Thank you very much. Looking backwards for a while, the financial highlights for financial year 2024 are as follows. Following on from the GBP 400,000 of sales in FY 2023, the company made GBP 4 million of equipment sales, primarily to the joint venture with Speedy Hire. We also received GBP 500,000 in U.K. grant funding with up to a further GBP 3.7 million to follow in the current financial year FY 2025. We also capitalized GBP 4.4 million of development costs, which in itself is an external valuation that ought to sign up to that products that we are manufacturing have future value. At the year end, we had cash of GBP 15.4 million.
Apologies that this slide is a little bit busy, but what we thought it was important to do is to show you the profit and loss impact of the activities undertaken in FY 2024 on the left, but more importantly, show you the cash impact of those actions taken. Although the company made revenues of GBP 4 million, the cash impact of that GBP 4 million was actually negative. The reason why it was negative is because we paid over the VAT to the U.K. government and GBP 800,000, and then receipts from the JV were only GBP 500,000. That essentially consumed GBP 300,000 of cash. To manufacture those products, the 20 generators, it cost us GBP 5.9 million, resulting in a GBP 1.9 million net loss.
In order to support those, the fuel cells in the field, we invested GBP 1.7 million in a maintenance pool should we need to change out any units on the fuel cells. At the same time, we invested in the JV of GBP 600,000. Essentially, if you take those three top lines together, we consumed GBP 8.5 million of cash to deliver GBP 4 million of revenue, GBP 4 million of which is the timing difference, which will come in the current financial year as the JV pays for the units that were shipped. As in prior years, we continued to develop our technology, which we spent GBP 9.5 million in cash, GBP 4.4 million was capitalized, which means GBP 5.1 million went through the profit and loss account. Staff costs cost us GBP 6 million.
We had other admin expenses of GBP 6.8 million, GBP 4 million of which were non-cash items, which are the depreciation on our assets and share-based payments. In order to support future growth, we invested GBP 3 million in CapEx. GBP 800,000 of that was onto NanoSun trailers, which enables us to transport hydrogen, the air purifying system of GBP 200,000, and various different technology in the factory to help manufacturing of parts. We received GBP 300,000 of interest, and we did a capital raise of GBP 15.8 million, which cost us GBP 900,000 to execute.
Finally, on an R&D tax credit, the profit and loss impact in the year is GBP 1.9 million, but we received cash for the tax credits in the previous year of GBP 2.7 million, which means on the GBP 4 million that we made sales, we had a net loss of GBP 17.4 million, and the cash change in the year was GBP 12 million. Looking forward, what we've done, we've taken steps to reduce the cash burn down to GBP 1 million a month for our fixed cost base. We have GBP 3.7 million of U.K. grant funding secured for FY2025. There is the GBP 4 million that the JV owes the business that we are collecting in FY2025. Finally, we'll receive money from the government for our R&D tax claim, resulting in us having cash for the next 12 months.
Okay, thank you, Karl. In terms of the fuel cell commercial progress through last year, as everyone is aware, we established the joint venture, sold 20 30 kilowatt units into that joint venture. Speedy are responsible for the deployments. We have now built up a pipeline, and we are expecting the first five of those to be shipped to sites in the very, very near future. We are supporting them to overcome obstacles to accelerating deployment. As these are new units using new technology that have been deployed on construction sites that are replacing technology that has been incumbent technology, i.e., diesel generators that have been around for many years, there are inevitable obstacles that need to be overcome, and we are there to support that.
We have continued or re-engaged, I say, strategic discussions with TAMGO with a view to replicating the JV model that we have built with Speedy across the MENA region. We have deployed a 45 kVA generator to the Acciona site in Madrid, which is currently on test. Post the period, we shipped a unit to TAMGO for a trial with Aramco. That has taken between four to five months to organize because of the fact that nothing like this has ever been shipped into the region before. The necessary approvals that have been required have been extremely arduous. It is barriers like this that we continually need to overcome and that sometimes you do not foresee. As I said, we have started the rollout and the near-term deployment of the H-Power generator sets to Speedy.
We have a continued pipeline development, which Speedy is spearheading, and we are supporting. On the operational side, the production facility in Dunsfold was established, and obviously the units that we have shipped have been built there. These are three very important points because they provide barriers to entry and a point of differentiation. The user interface has been redesigned to replicate the diesel generator. These units will run as if they are a diesel generator. Successful integration with battery storage systems and also adding advanced telemetry for remote monitoring. We can see actually what is happening in the field. We can take those learnings and we can use those learnings into improving our offering and also next generation of generators.
Also an important milestone in any business that is starting to manufacture and grow, achieving the ISO certifications of 9001, 14001, and 45001. Post period, we've launched now our 200 kilowatt generator that was based initially on the ABB investment, which I believe was a few years ago. This second generation has allowed us to achieve a significant reduction in manufacturing costs. That is a continual theme in this presentation. It's also a continual focus for us as a business to make sure that we are focusing on designing products for the minimum cost point possible. In terms of Hyamtec, Hyamtec was officially launched as a business towards the back end of the year with its world-leading cracking technology. That was following a successful patent application filed based on its core technology.
The architecture that we have created within Hyamtec has a significant protective moat around it. I think this is one of the reasons why, and we'll talk about this a little bit later, while there's a number of very serious inquiries from very large companies, some of which actually manufacture their own ammonia crackers at much bigger scale, are very interested in our technology because we can provide purity, we can provide a quicker startup, and we can also crack at a much lower temperature because of the design and the protection that we have around that through those patent applications. We have also developed a further roadmap of products. That is then sort of manifested through the launch yesterday of Hy-5, the world's first containerised portable cracking module that can readily be deployed at a construction site.
There's no need to wait for a grid connection, which in this country could take 5-10 years. There's no need to require a huge power drop to be able to power an electrolyser, for example. This can be installed or deployed within sort of days of the order being placed from 2026. In terms of purpose and strategy, I think this is really quite an important slide. We outline here what the immediate opportunity is. This has really kind of driven the thinking behind the strategy. If we take the left-hand slide first, currently there's around about 2 million diesel generator sets that are produced globally. We believe around about 10% of those are in our what we term sweet spots, so in that 30 kilowatt range.
As a result of that, our market now is potentially 210,000 units per year. If we can capture 1% of that market, we'll have a business that is in the region on the fuel cell side of a couple hundred million a year. That is just on new generators on an annual basis, not looking to displace what is already out there. A significant opportunity and getting us to a point of cost parity allows us to access that market. Secondly, the U.K. government has set a 2030 hydrogen production target of 3,600 tons per day. If we start to break that down, if we can achieve 5% of that market using our Hy-5 technology or technology that will also follow at GBP 10 a kilo, that would generate GBP 1.8 million of revenue per day. That business would be generating GBP 650 million of revenue.
That's 5% of the market, and that's 5% of the market at a price point that nobody can get close to. We believe we are being relatively conservative with our views around what that market opportunity is and what that translates to. I think this is an important point as well. That translates to the equivalent of 360 Hy-5 units for us to be generating that level of revenue. The opportunity is absolutely enormous. Our focus is on capitalizing through productization of our technology at a price point that allows us to access that market and be the first mover within it. The government is also working in our favor.
Lower Thames Crossing have mandated that from 2027, hydrogen needs to be used on all construction equipment, etc., with the exception of boring equipment for the tunnels because hydrogen and tunnels are not really a good mix. Also, HS2 has stated that they want to end diesel by 2029. What we are saying is we do not want to wait for the market to come to us. We do not want to wait until 2027, 2028, 2029 for a market opportunity to appear. We want to be out there now. The best way for us to do that is to be competitive with conventional technology and/or have a disruptive price point for the production of hydrogen.
This is an extremely busy slide for which we apologize, but this is a global footprint of planned clean ammonia production because a couple of questions that I've had over the past couple of days are, well, where is ammonia coming from? This gives you an indication of over the next few years, ammonia plants that are coming on stream to support the hydrogen economy. What this will serve to do is ultimately drive down the price of ammonia over a period of time as well. If you look at that transition to market-led growth, if you look at the box at the bottom of the middle there, we're focusing on that market push. What does that mean? It's innovative lower-cost solutions that remove those barriers to adoption.
That is a term I keep using because it is a term that is preventing this industry from really moving forward. To deliver that, we are accelerating plans to reduce the cost of those S Series generators that help us get that cost parity, expand that range, and then be in a position from a point in 2026 where the hydrogen provided by our Hy-5 in conjunction with our fuel cells will provide that total cost of ownership parity with a diesel generator. We believe that will accelerate the transition to clean energy because we have that price point equivalence. The further productisation of Hyamtec's technology roadmap will further disrupt that hydrogen production market. Putting this, illustrating this in a way that is hopefully a little bit more explainable, if you take where we are currently, we are on the left-hand side there.
Current fuel cell with a design and cost, we've got a very small addressable market, and it's small simply because of the cost. Where there are tenders that mandate a need for green or where there's subsidies or grants, then that's our addressable market. We don't have a hydrogen fuel addressable market currently because we don't have a product that is live. If you move on to the next column, with our new fuel cell design, we then become highly competitive. The market becomes much larger, but without a hydrogen fuel provision, that ultimately is the market. You move to our joint offering within 2026, where we have a much lower-cost fuel cell with hydrogen that is provided by Hy-5 that provides that cost parity. We then completely open up the market for fuel cells, but also for that hydrogen fuel element as well.
Just a reminder of the first slide I put up here. Simply, we're taking ammonia molecules, converting those to hydrogen, and converting that to power. There is also the component parts within that. There is a fuel cell market that we're obviously going after as a standalone, but also there is a hydrogen market that we are going after for the production of hydrogen. This gives an indication of the number of the verticals that we see opportunity, and we are having discussions with a number of different companies within those verticals. Moving on to Outlook. As we said, we're pausing the further rollout of generators, as Karl has talked through. We're consuming cash by rolling them out.
We have enough generators now to seed the market to get the feedback that we need to further improve based on units that are running in the field. We want to wait until we've got those cost reductions that will then allow us to really open up the market. We've got line of sight of that because of the work we've done on 200 kilowatt version through the RDR grant. That's given us a line of sight of a way to bring those costs down. We're working with Speedy to support increased customer deployments.
We fully expect a significant increase in demand once we achieve that cost parity. We are in many advanced discussions regarding the development and deployment of large-scale cracker systems. That is the Hy-5 at 500 kilograms per day, but also significantly larger systems that are on our product roadmap. We've secured the GBP 3.7 million of grants for 2025. As a final point, and to restate, within 2026, the hydrogen from Hy-5 in conjunction with our fuel cells will provide total cost of ownership parity with a diesel generator. That concludes the presentation. Over to questions. I think Mark is going to kindly read those out.
That's great, Karl, John. Thank you very much indeed for updating investors. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions, issued in the Q&A tab situated on the right-hand corner of your screen. John, Karl, we did receive a number of questions ahead of today's event, and you've received a number throughout today's meeting. Thank you to everybody for your engagement. Perhaps if I could start off with the first question, what happened to the GBP 26 million order book? There is no reference to this in the results announcement.
Okay, thanks, John. I think there's been a number of questions on that. Frankly, the way that the definition of the order book, that number effectively is unchanged. I think the reference was to committed and uncommitted orders. There still are a level of uncommitted orders for the joint venture. If we produced another 50 units, for example, that would have been another GBP 11 million of revenue, which would be a big part of that. It's not a term or it's not a definition we'll be using kind of going forward. I think for both Karl and myself, an order book needs to reference committed orders from customers, contractor committed. When we start to refer to order book in the future, that's exactly what it will be referring to.
Let's turn to the next question. You've paused the rollout of fuel cell generators until manufacturing costs are reduced. Why is that?
Because, ultimately, we have a level of cash on our balance sheet. We're consuming cash by manufacturing those units, as to Karl's point in the presentation. In conjunction with Speedy, we don't really see the value in doing that right now when if we divert our focus and our cash reserves to significantly reducing the price. I mean, this isn't a 10% or 20% reduction. We're talking about a 66% reduction in the cost. That is, we believe that as well as Hy-5 coming on stream is a much better use of resources in the short term.
Thank you. A number of questions, as I guess you would imagine, around share price. The dip in the share price has been hugely disappointing over recent years. What do you see as potential drivers for recovery over the next year or two?
I think there are two things. I mean, there are things we can control and there are things we cannot control. The one thing that we should be able to control is delivery. The business delivers, the share price should respond. That said, there also needs to be a bit of a rebound in the market, market sentiment. I am sure a number of investors will be aware, holding other stocks, that even good news sometimes results in a drop in the share price. We will be focusing on the things we can control, and that is delivery. This is a business that is very much now about delivery.
Again, a theme here, I guess, a number of questions around funding. At best, you have another 12 months of cash. How do you expect to secure additional funds given the share price declines?
I think, firstly, it's back to that point of delivery. Once we start to see delivery, what does delivery look like? For us, where we are now, we need to provide to the market, and when I say market, I mean potential customers as well as to shareholders. We need to provide a level of validation. That validation we expect in the short to medium term comes through the conclusion of the many discussions we're having with large and medium-sized potential customers around taking either product or licensing of technology.
Thank you.
A bit there about, was there a bit about fundraiser, something in that or?
Yeah,
around funding. Around funding, yeah. As I say, we've got 12 months of cash. I think once we've got that strategic validation, the share price we hope would respond. That then gives us more opportunities around funding options.
Thank you. A couple of questions around strategy. How will the shift in strategy from a tech-led, market-led growth model be manifested?
I think we've kind of run through a lot of that in the presentation, but I think productization is the key point there. The business has a huge amount of very exciting technology, but the technology in itself doesn't create value. I think it's a typical failure of British industry to focus on the tech rather than focusing on commercial realization. We are making sure that the productization piece is to address a market need, not to address a perceived technological need.
Thank you. You say you're in advanced discussions re-cracker deployments. When can we realistically see such deployments and how will you fund the project cost?
I think, yeah, I mean, we have changed the, I think, historic approach to how we work with customers and potential customers. There has obviously been a number of announcements around MOUs, development agreements, etc., that have not to date really amounted to a great deal. I think that is because there is a huge amount of interest in this space from very large companies. They want to know what is going on. They do not want to be left behind. It is very easy for them to sign an MOU to get access to a piece of technology or a small workstream that creates for $50,000, $100,000, or whatever it might be, but with no certainty of any kind of meaningful revenue off the back end for the business.
Our approach is very different, which is because we're now masters of our own destiny, we are outlining our own product roadmap. If somebody wants to work with us, that's fine. We'll work with them, but ultimately, there needs to be significant revenue opportunity at the back end of that within that contractual arrangement. We want to be doing that as soon as we can. We're not in complete control of those timelines because it's obviously two parties that need to agree things, but our tech is of interest, a great deal of interest.
I've missed that part of the question there, John, so I'll come back to that if I may.
Okay.
Let's just turn to the next question around provisions here. You're claiming a success in being able to produce 250 units per annum. In the next breath, you announce that you've suspended production for the foreseeable future. It feels like we're completely misled by previous management.
Yeah, personally, I don't think that is the case. I think building a capacity and then pausing a rollout are effectively mutually exclusive events. Also, circumstances change. I think the macroeconomics now dictate a different price point for units. I think three plus years ago, when the units were under development, price was perhaps not a consideration. It is now, and I think there's obviously been delays in the kickstarting of the hydrogen economy. What our approach is to actually become that kickstart, and we're doing that through the development of much, much lower-cost technology or product, should I say, not technology. There's been a level of any level of misleading.
Thank you. Next question. What are the reasons why the new cracker will not be available until 2026? What's the price of the cracker?
Okay, we're not proposing to actually sell crackers, and we're not selling them because, as I say, we want to really drive this fuel-to-service model because we believe that creates more shareholder value because we have recurring revenue over a longer period rather than a capital equipment sale. That's the first point. Why isn't it happening for 2026? There's a huge amount of testing that we need to finalize in terms of that. Also, what we want to do is build up that kind of pipeline, that customer pipeline, so that as we convert orders into sales, we're doing so because we're building a lot of five or ten, not one here and one there.
Thank you. How does Hy-5 differ from the previous HYMETEC product offering?
I think prior to this, HYMETEC had technology, not a product. You can license technology, you can sell technology, but ultimately, what we are doing is selling a product that provides us with a recurring revenue opportunity.
Thank you. Let's just have a look at some cost reduction questions. Can you detail the targeted manufacturing cost reductions? How realistic are these targets?
We believe they are realistic. As I referenced in one of the slides, we've got line of sight of that through validation of the work that we've done on the much larger unit. There is some work that needs to be done to be able to kind of scale that down in terms of price per kilowatt to the level that we want to achieve on a 30-kilowatt generator, but we believe it's certainly realistic.
I think we have to set ourselves ambitious targets. I think if you look at the total cost of ownership with a diesel generator, it's quite interesting that 70% of the cost is actually fuel. We do have a level of flexibility around that kind of price point, but we've set that target at two-thirds of where we are currently. Where we are currently, actually, is significantly lower than the first units that we sold to the JV that are included in the revenue for the last year.
Thanks, John. You've referenced barriers preventing wide-scale deployment of AFC's technology. Could you expand on this and really explain what you're doing to overcome them?
Yeah, absolutely. I think, again, that's something we've been through in the presentation. The two significant barriers are price and availability of hydrogen. I think our peers in this space have certainly been reflecting on that. Government acknowledges that. That is why there are subsidies available under the HAR schemes for producing hydrogen. Even with those subsidies, our competitors cannot get to our price point. That is what we are doing about it. We are creating a market push through disrupting the market by providing hydrogen at a price point that gives that competitive price point with diesel and other fuels.
Thanks, John. Coming back to questions around capital raises, again, will you commit to not doing an equity raise at the current low share price? Doing so would wipe out some long-suffering shareholders.
Yeah, I think, I mean, as I said earlier, what the business needs to do is deliver. Delivery should then start to see an improvement in the share price. If it doesn't improve, then obviously the business has tough questions to deal with because we do have 12 months of cash. At a point in time, we are going to need to raise more money. Our focus, as I say, is on delivery, which we believe should impact the share price in a positive way, which makes or provides further optionality for the board around funding options.
Thanks, John. Until very recently, the market consensus was for revenue of GBP 11.8 million in 2025 and GBP 30 million in 2026. You're now saying that the revenue is likely this year to be GBP 4 million from grant funds. How did the market expectation from management get so far out of hand?
The first point, I think it's a technical point, so before Karl pulls me up on it. Grant funding isn't revenue. It's income. The two are kind of very different. That is the first point. Around the GBP 11 million point, I mean, that ultimately is the sale of 50 generators. We have said in this strategic repositioning, because of the way that the market is and price being a barrier, that we do not want to burn cash building units. That is really the reduction.
Great. Thank you. What is the status of the unit on test with Aramco?
Aramco. It is not on test yet. As I say, it took us four to five months to be able to work out and ship the bloody thing to the Gulf region. That is on its way now. Once we have the results of those trials, that will obviously feed into the discussions we are having with TAMGO around the potential joint venture.
Thanks, John. It's been months since the units were delivered to Speedy. Why has there been no deployments as yet?
I think there's a few reasons for that. Firstly, there's a lot of things that need to kind of happen in parallel that hadn't quite happened in parallel. I think this is learnings on both sides. I think this is also a reason why we're looking to perfect that JV model with Speedy before we look to kind of deploy it in other regions. Issues around certification, hydrogen safety, training, where positioning, those are key criteria that we need to kind of overcome. The final one being price as well. With the current price that is in the market for our fuel cells, the leasing price, it's not that attractive unless there are grants and subsidies available.
We've now started to work with Speedy on improving that, and that has completely unlocked the market, which is why we now have five contracts signed, and those will be rolling out in the very, very near future and a strong pipeline behind that. I think we've got reasonable expectations that the majority of those units will be in the field through the back end of this year.
Okay. Let's turn to the next question. How much does it cost to build an H-Power generator currently?
I think the financial institute can kind of pre-work that out pretty much from the numbers Karl went through, but it's around about GBP 350,000 on a fully loaded cost basis. When you include labor, etc., etc.
Thank you. You had cash of around GBP 15.4 million as at the 31st of October. Can you give us some insights to where the cash balance is now?
We will be updating that cash number with our half-year results, which will be due out in July. The only numbers that we have put into the market currently are obviously the number at the end of the year and the cash burn that Karl referred to of around about GBP 1 million a month.
Great. Thank you. Is the GBP 3.7 million grant funding expected in 2025 guaranteed? If you fail to receive the grant funding, how many months will that take off of your cash runway?
I think we get it all in. Do we get it all in by the end of April? Was it into May?
It is a question for Karl. This is Karl, by the way. He speaks sometimes.
The grant is predicated on delivering certain technical aspects over an air-cooled generator and a liquid-cooled generator and two air-cooled generators. We believe, I mean, we are very well ahead of the curve on delivering those prerequisites. The money is being received in the next couple of months. I do not think there is a risk over the grant funding. Essentially, if we do the maths and we are burning GBP 1 million a month, it would take GBP 4 million off or four months off.
That is great. Thanks, Karl. What is the status of the relationship with ABB? Do they remain supportive shareholders?
I think, I mean, they are still there. I think they hold almost 2% of the company. Obviously, acutely aware that recently, Ceres had their largest shareholder, Bosch, sell out completely or look to sell out completely. I think there are reasons for that.
Those reasons are that Bosch haven't lost faith in the technology. They just want to move in a different direction. They have teamed up with Johnson Matthey, not with Ceres. As I mentioned earlier, there is a huge amount of interest and has been a huge amount of interest from large companies in the space. They want to understand what's going on. They do not want to be blindsided by some kind of disruptive technology in the space. That said, that's exactly what we've done with the Hy-5.
Great. Thank you. I guess if we maybe finish up on this question, and once again, thank you to everybody for your questions. I do hope we've covered a number of the themes that seem to be coming through. For years, the company's been talking about building shareholder value in its decision-making, but it's all but eroded. What is being done to improve shareholder value and hopefully bring the share price to a more realistic level?
I think that's ultimately the foundation and the starting point of strategic repositioning, which is what we've outlined. I think if you have technology that provides a commercially viable price point and ultimately will be the technology that is IP protected, then it certainly puts you in a very good place. It's back to the word of the day, as it were, and that's delivery. The business needs to deliver. As we said to the team in Dunsfold, words are pretty cheap. What's really important is the actions and the delivery. We need to be judged on that delivery, and we expect to be so.
Thanks, John. I did say one question. That was a lie. There's another one that's come through and a number around this topic. I don't know what you can say in the confines of this meeting, but has AFC received any approaches for a takeover?
I finished answering questions, Mark. I told you now. No, we haven't. To be honest, I think we haven't had any questions along that. I think is there a danger? There's always a danger. I think where the market cap of the business is, GBP 50 million or so, and you look at the inherent value of the technology and you look at the competitive landscape where peers are valued, we're significantly under that. There's many reasons for that. All we can do is continue to do what we're doing, what we said we'd do, and that is deliver.
If those approaches come, deal with them accordingly. I think just to answer a question that has not been asked, I think there is no intention from the two of us sitting here to look to take the business private, delist the business, sell the business. We are here to build some substantial shareholder value in the medium term.
That is great, John. Karl, thank you very much indeed. Thank you to everybody for your engagement this afternoon. John, Karl, I know investor feedback will be particularly important to you both. I will shortly redirect those on the call to give you their feedback. Before doing so, I wondered if I may, John, perhaps just come back to you for a couple of closing comments.
Certainly. Yeah, thanks, Mark. Thank you, everyone, for listening today. I hope it was not too arduous. Feedback would be greatly appreciated. We look forward to seeing a number of you next month at the AGM. Thank you.
That's great. John, Karl, thank you once again for updating investors. If I could please ask investors not to close this session, as we will now automatically redirect you for the opportunity to provide your feedback in order that the company can better understand your views and expectations. This may take a few moments to complete, but I am sure it will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of AFC Energy, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation.