Ladies and gentlemen, shareholders and holders of depositary receipts. I am pleased to open the meeting and to welcome you to this virtual extraordinary general meeting. On behalf of the supervisory board, I am present, Tom de Swaan, Chair of the Supervisory Board. On behalf of the executive board, Robert Swaak, CEO, is present, and Hanneke Dorsman will serve as secretary to this meeting. On behalf of the employee council, Arlene Bosman is present. Welcome everybody. At this meeting, we are pleased to introduce Annerie Vreugdenhil as proposed new member of the executive board. Annerie Vreugdenhil is present to introduce herself to the meeting. First, I'd like to call your attention to some general remarks.
As in previous meetings, at this meeting, we have decided to conduct it entirely virtual and according to the convening notice, we expect that this will be the last time, given the measures enhanced by the government starting this week. That means that no visitors, shareholders or depositary receipts are present in person here, although of course, it is possible, as at previous occasions, to ask questions via the live chat. As usual, the meeting will be conducted in Dutch and will be broadcast in both Dutch and English on live webcast at the ABN AMRO website. An audio recording will be made of this meeting to draft the minutes, and these minutes will be made available from 18 May 2022 at the latest for three months for any comments, and they will be posted on the ABN AMRO website.
I note that shareholders and depositary receipt holders have been convened in keeping with the law and the articles of association, and that shareholders and depositary receipt holders have not submitted any proposals for agenda items on this meeting. Now, regarding our procedure, there is one agenda item to discuss and for notification, so there are no voting items on the agenda. We would like to enable all shareholders and depositary receipt holders that registered for the meeting in time to ask questions. If you would like to ask questions via the live chat, please do so as quickly as possible so that we can answer your questions during the agenda item concerned, and we will let you know in time when we will be closing the live chat. Prior to this meeting, we received questions from the VEB. Thank you for those.
In answering the questions, we will start with the questions that we received in advance. The VEB will then be given the opportunity to take the floor live and ask follow-up questions by a telephone connection. Of course, we will answer the questions that participants ask live during the meeting. I am concluding agenda item one and moving on to item two. Item two is discussing the composition of the executive board of ABN AMRO and particularly introducing Annerie Vreugdenhil as proposed member of the executive board as Chief Commercial Officer, Personal and Business Banking. I think that's a wonderful title to accelerate implementing our new strategy and serve our customers as a personal bank in the digital era. The bank has simplified its organizational structure.
Effective from 24 November 2021, the bank has replaced the four business lines at the time with three client segments, Personal & Business Banking, Wealth Management, and Corporate Banking. Choy van der Hooft-Cheong will be heading up the Wealth Management customer section, and Dan Dorner will be in charge of the Corporate Banking client segment. Both were appointed as new Executive Board members on 24 November 2021. You probably remember the EGM at which Choy van der Hooft-Cheong and Dan introduced themselves to you. In the meantime, Frans van der Horst is heading up the client segment, Personal & Business Banking, and reports to CEO Robert Swaak until a permanent successor to Annerie Vreugdenhil is appointed. Frans is not a member of the Executive Board.
The search by the supervisory board, obviously in conjunction with the executive board for this position, has led to the nomination of Annerie Vreugdenhil as Chief Commercial Officer. The ECB has approved the intended appointment, and the employee council has issued a positive advice regarding the intended appointment. The most important elements of Annerie's remuneration have been posted on ABN AMRO's website. Annerie is bringing on board over 30 years of experience in banking. She comes from the ING, in which she held various leadership positions in different sectors in a broad spectrum of positions with customer contact. Her broad experience in banking and innovation makes Annerie perfect for our client in Personal and Business Banking. After this meeting, the supervisory board will be appointing Annerie for a four-year term. Her term of appointment will end upon the conclusion of the annual general meeting in 2026.
Annerie is present here and looks forward to introducing herself to you, so I will give her the floor for that. Annerie.
Thank you, Tom. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'm pleased to introduce myself to you briefly. I'm Annerie Vreugdenhil. I am from Geldermalsen, a town in the Betuwe area. My parents both worked as teachers there. I'm married. I have two sons. They're students and have already left home. I have spent most of my professional career working for banks and have held many different positions, but the guideline has always been client service. After studying law at the University of Amsterdam, I went to work at a bank because there was one thing I knew after studying and having some odd jobs, I wanted to hold a commercial position, preferably at an international company.
I just happened to enter banking, but I felt that I had really lucked out because I felt that I was truly able to add value for customers. I started at the Nederlandsche Credietbank, which soon merged with Crédit Lyonnais, first as a relations manager for business clients and later on as the office director. After that, I transitioned to the ING and held various positions at the business bank, close to client service from relation management to rendering all kinds of complex credit systems. From 2010 to 2016, as member of the management Netherlands and head of commercial banking, I was responsible for all kinds of services for business customers at ING, from the self-employed to large multinationals.
In 2018, I had the opportunity to work for the bank as the head innovation for the business bank and from 2021 as Chief Innovation Officer for all operations of ING globally. I believe that in all companies, especially banks, innovation is indispensable. Our world is changing rapidly. New technologies make new products and services possible. At the same time, client demands are changing. Many clients have become used to the convenience of doing everything on their cell phone and expect the same from their bank. Based on my roles in innovation, I've had the opportunity to see close up how startups can grow and thrive. I used to chair the Komgo Supervisory Board, a fintech that made trading commodities more efficient and safer. I was also a member of the supervisory board at R3.
That's a platform creating infrastructure for safe use of blockchain technology for banks and others. I was a member of the advisory board of Squirro, a software company that uses artificial intelligence to create new insights for companies. I worked at the ING for nearly 30 years. I never expected to work for a single company for so long, but ING is a company that accommodates people, and something new always happened for me. I'm very curious, I'm filled with energy, and I'm fascinated at new challenges. Now I have a new task at the ABN AMRO. What I like doing most of all is working for and with clients. I'm delighted to get to work as Chief Commercial Officer, Personal and Business Banking.
At this job, I will have the opportunity to pursue all my passions and connect all my passions for clients, banking and innovation. I believe in the ABN AMRO's strategy, personal bank in the digital era, and I believe that this strategy beautifully complements ABN AMRO. ABN AMRO has an excellent track record in terms of innovation, digital offers for customers. ABN AMRO was one of the first to launch a mobile app. Of course, we all know that the Tikkie app is here to stay. Last year, over 100 million Tikkies were sent. ABN AMRO has an extended track record of expert personal advice. I also believe that this strategy has been the right choice for this time.
As I said, many customers would like to be able to arrange as many of their daily banking operations as possible from their phone, but at the same time, they want personal contact. That's what fascinates me about this bank, combining personal with digital, because banking is both about daily convenience and about important moments and choices in your life. For example, purchasing a home is a major decision for many people with serious financial consequences. There are also important moments for companies with major financial choices, such as opening a new branch or acquiring a new business. At that moment, it's important for customers to have personal contact and to receive good advice or the confirmation that their financial decision is responsible. That's why I believe in ABN AMRO's strategy of being a personal bank in a digital era.
I'm greatly looking forward to getting to work as Chief Commercial Officer, Personal and Business Banking. Ladies and gentlemen. Tom, I'll leave it at this, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have.
Thank you very much for this fine introduction. Now you will have the opportunity to ask questions about agenda item two, and as stated previously, we received questions about this agenda item from the VEB. I'll read out the questions they asked, and then I'll answer them, or I'll ask Robert or Annerie to answer those questions. The first question is addressed to the supervisory board, so I'll cover that one myself. The question is whether we can explain why Annerie Vreugdenhil was selected over the other internal and external candidates. Well, the simplest answer is listen to her introduction, and it's clear why we have selected Annerie.
I'd like to add, however, that recently, as you were able to meet the two individuals in November at the AGM, we were able to position two important candidates in the executive board, and we appointed Dan Dorner and Choy van der Hooft-Cheong . Obviously, with these types of positions, we look inside the bank and outside the bank. It was very clear, as I mentioned in the introduction, that Annerie Vreugdenhil was the best candidate in our view. That's why we're so delighted that she'll be joining our team. The second question from the VEB is as follows: in the explanatory note to the EGM agenda, the supervisory board mentioned that Annerie Vreugdenhil will be able to take operations to the next level, and I think that's a wonderful sentence. What did the supervisory board expect from Annerie Vreugdenhil in her role as COO, Personal & Business Banking?
Clearly, our strategy is to be a personal bank in a digital period and add convenience to our clients' daily lives, as well as expertise at moments that matter to intensify and sustain personal contact. For years, there has been a trend in which clients have been doing their banking digital, and that trend endures. The same holds true at ABN AMRO. We would like to be able to offer all our services remote in the course of this year. Annerie Vreugdenhil has broad experience in banking and innovation, and in our view, that makes her perfect to head up our client unit, Personal and Business Banking, where digitization is progressively expanding. The third question from the VEB concerns whether Mrs. Vreugdenhil can describe what her due diligence was like. She told me earlier, I'm sure she can explain that.
Could she please address her opinion about the strategy, revenue model, and distinctive edge of ABN AMRO, as well as the dominant influence of the Dutch state as the controlling shareholder. Before I hand you over to Annerie to talk about her due diligence process, I'd like to give the floor to Robert Swaak to answer the second section of the question. Robert, over to you.
Thank you, Tom. As we said a few times and indicated, the strategy is to be a personal bank in a digital era. To us, that is explicitly the bank's distinctive edge. It combines personal and expert advice together with the digital customer service. As we explained previously, it's incredibly important for the bank to continue the focus and scale in northwest Europe. We aim to grow in specific identified segments, and we will continue making the bank simpler and more efficient. Next, the question about the Dutch state as shareholder. Let me confirm once again, we head up and run the bank as we would do if the state were not a shareholder. We stand behind our strategy and implement it on a stand-alone basis. That was how it was put together based on this strategy as well.
Thank you very much. Now, Annerie Vreugdenhil, your due diligence process.
Thank you, Tom.
Please go ahead.
As is undoubtedly known, finance is a highly regulated sector, so preparing for such a position, you need to follow an extensive introductory program to learn many different sections of the bank so that you know what you're getting into and you do your own due diligence that way. That way, you also get off to a flying start. I'm still in the midst of this, but when I start on March first, I'll basically have finished most of this and will have a fairly good idea of the bank. As for the bank strategy, A Personal Bank in a Digital Era, I mentioned that in my introductory remarks. I think this perfectly complements and is a wonderful match for ABN AMRO, and it's a good choice for this period.
Many customers would like to do as much as possible of their daily banking operations from their phone. It's nice and convenient, but they also value personal contact, and that remains important. That's what makes this job so important, and it's also why this is such a good strategy. At the important moments, personal contact and general bank operations can be largely digital. That's why I'm a firm believer in the ABN AMRO strategy of being a personal bank in a digital era.
Thank you, Annerie. Now onto the fourth question from the VEB. Last month, it was announced that CI&TO Christian Bornfeld would be leaving on 1 May 2022. After the general meeting of shareholders on 21 April 2021, Bornfeld was reappointed for a second four-year term. He is among the longest-serving ABN AMRO board members and is responsible for crucial case files.
Can the Supervisory Board address the profile used for his successor and indicate when the candidate will be presented for appointment? First, I'd like to tell you that, losing Christian Bornfeld is a loss to the bank, but we understand his desire to be and work closer to his, family and relatives in Denmark. Of course, searching for a successor is in progress and ongoing, and we're taking a discerning look at the desired profile, as we do with every vacancy. We cannot yet provide any statements about its exact content. As soon as we're ready, we'll get back to you, and we'll discuss this with you.
That takes us to the last question from the VEB, which is as follows: in recent years, ABN AMRO has experienced a significantly higher turnover of board members, as confirmed by the recent departure of Bornfeld than most other public companies in the Netherlands. How does the supervisory board explain this, and what are the lessons learned? As stated, Christian Bornfeld is leaving because he's accepted a position that will enable him to live and work closer to his family and relatives in Denmark. We understand this and respect it. We're not jumping for joy about this, but we respect it and understand it. Last October, we announced that we would be simplifying our organizational structure. We replaced the executive committee with a larger executive board. The executive board has been expanded to include the present CHRO, Gerard Penning, and three new CCOs.
Two of them are being advanced internally, and one is being brought in from outside. The executive board thus comprises a combination of experienced and more recent board members. In addition, these people collectively have a lot of very broad experience in finance, whether at ABN AMRO or at other organizations. The larger composition of the executive board that we recently introduced, moreover, ensures that we safeguard continuity better, and the supervisory board considers this to be especially important. Upon board changes, more members will remain that know everything about what's going on than in the past with a smaller composition of the executive board because we now have more members. We believe that continuity is thereby safeguarded, that we are highly experienced in finance, whether at ABN AMRO, as confirmed by the two appointments of our own employees as CCO members last year or from other financial institutions.
That way we're comfortable about the continuity and in-depth knowledge of the executive board. Ladies and gentlemen, those were the questions asked in advance by the VEB. The VEB has indicated that they would also like to take the opportunity to ask follow-up questions live via the telephone connection, and I'm pleased to hand you over to the moderator for the follow-up questions by the VEB. Mr. Moderator, please go ahead.
Mr. Chairman, I believe that we've connected with the director, Mr. Gerben Everts, from the Association of Stockholders. Please go ahead. Please go ahead, Mr. Everts. Can you hear us, Mr. Everts? We are not able to hear you.
Can you hear me now?
"Yes, now I can hear you," answers Tom de Swaan. "Thank you," says Mr. Everts.
Welcome, Annerie Vreugdenhil, on board the ABN AMRO team. Thank you for your personal explanation about this agenda item. I'd also like to thank Mr. de Swaan and Mr. Swaak for answering the questions we submitted in advance. I conclude in the meantime that Annerie will be an excellent complement to the team. Let me also take this opportunity to ask three other additional questions. Robert Swaak, you just mentioned that you are running the bank as if the state is not a shareholder. Can you say anything about the announcement by the Minister of Finance considering marketing some of their shares, and what timeframe do you expect in consultation with the Ministry of Finance?
That's one question. The second question relates to that in some respects. You can certainly run the bank as if the state is not a shareholder, but that curtails your flexibility, especially as the acquiring party. Last year, there was an announcement of a strategic reorientation regarding cooperating with other parties such as, for example, Goldman Sachs, which offered to facilitate this. Can you tell us the status quo and is it still the objective to look for niche banks and institutions in Scandinavia that would complement ABN AMRO's portfolio? The last question is an update. We have identified information about the higher interest rates that are in the pipeline and how that would impact returns in the years ahead.
However, Mr. Swaak, you've indicated that the interest income will bottom out in 2023, and we believe that that's crucial for equity, for the return on equity. Is that still the expected and next cost reductions? In any case, last year, the cost-benefit ratio, so the money that you spend on your staff was 76.4%. That was spending on staff, and that will be reduced to about 63%-64% by 2024 following some acquisitions. What could accelerate this and what do you expect? Give us a broad impression of the current status quo.
Back to Tom. Tom de Swaan says,
I'll hand you over to Robert Swaak, but we need to consider that your questions do not truly relate to the introduction of Mrs. Vreugdenhil ," but nonetheless, I believe that Robert Swaak has enough relevant knowledge about the bank that he can answer some of those questions. Robert, over to you. Please unmute, Robert.
Thank you, gentlemen, for the questions asked, and I'm pleased to elaborate on those. Regarding your first question, the role of the bank as a shareholder. Excuse me, the role of the state as a shareholder in the bank and the recent comment by the minister in the House of Representatives. That has been standing policy of the government from when I joined in the governing council agreement. It was mentioned that the state would eventually reduce its holding in ABN AMRO over time. That's also what the minister told you. As for additional details and timing, however, you should ask that shareholder concerned, as you might expect me to. Regarding your question about flexibility in implementing the ABN AMRO strategy. I can tell you that in the nearly two years that I've been the CEO of ABN AMRO, I have not experienced any limitation in flexibility of implementing strategy.
We do it as we should, and we've been very clear and consistent in our communications, and I experience that every day. As for your questions about possible acquisition endeavors, for example, in Scandinavia. What I said and continue to repeat is that we continuously explore M&A opportunities, and in November 2020, we stated this as part of our strategy and we continue to state that every day. When such opportunities arise, we will certainly follow up on those. What's important to note, as I've said previously, is that we continue to consider that this will add value to our strategy and for the shareholder.
Regarding a higher return for 2020, we announced that we aimed for a realistic return of 8% by 2024, and we repeated that in our many conversations, both with investors and in our analyst calls, and our financial planning is focused on maintaining that and will continue to do so. As for costs, I'm sure you also heard our explanation in the analyst call, in which once again, our long-term ambition to cut costs was confirmed to less than EUR 4.7 billion in 2024, and we're on track for that. In recent years, however, ABN AMRO has demonstrated how important it is to curtail our costs, and we'll continue along that track.
Thank you very much, Robert, says Tom de Swaan. Could I refer you to the letter from Minister Kaag to the House of Representatives about her policy intentions yesterday? ABN AMRO was mentioned there too. Now, I'm pleased to give the floor to the moderator, unless the VEB has additional questions.
No, we don't.
Explains Mr. Everts. Thank you for answering them. Thank you for your questions, Mr. Everts, explains Tom de Swaan. I hope we'll see you live at the AGM in April after two years. We're looking forward to it. Now, over to the moderator for any questions received via the live chat. Mr. Moderator.
Mr. Chairman, no additional questions have been received via the live chat.
Okay. That takes me to the next item, which is closing this meeting. I note that no questions remain, and I hereby close the meeting. I wish Annerie all the very best. After this meeting, we will be officially appointing her, and as of 1 March, her duties will start here. I'd like to thank everybody for attending and for contributing to this meeting. The meeting is closed. Thank you for listening.