Ladies and gentlemen, dear shareholders, holders of depository receipt of shares. I hereby open this meeting and warmly welcome you to this virtual, unfortunately virtual once again, EGM. Present are Robert Swaak, CEO, Hanneke Dorsman, secretary of this meeting, and myself, Tom de Swaan, as Chairman of the Supervisory Board. The three of us are physically present on site at the head offices of ABN AMRO. On behalf of the employee council, Arlene Bosman is present. However, she only attends virtually by means of our live connection, live link. Today, we will discuss the new governance structure and also present three new members of the executive board. The new members of the executive board of ABN AMRO are all physically present at this meeting. Welcome to Dan Dorner, Choy van der Hooft-Cheong, and Gerard Penning.
First of all, please, I have to ask attention for a number of announcements of an organizational nature. As said, in order to avoid possible health hazards, we once again decided, unfortunately, to have a fully virtual meeting based on the temporary emergency legislation. We obviously do this to align ourselves as much as possible with the measures of government announced two weeks ago. That means there will be no visitors, no shareholders, no holders of depository receipts of shares in presence, in person. But obviously you will have an opportunity to ask questions by means of a live chat function, and we have given notice of this opportunity at the corporate webpage. This meeting, as usual, will be in Dutch, but also as usual, we will have simultaneous interpretation into English available on the webpage of ABN AMRO.
There will be an audio recording of the entire meeting for the making up of the minutes. The minutes will be made available no later than 22 February 2022 during a period of three months in order to give comments on the webpage of ABN AMRO. I conclude that the shareholders and holders of depository receipts of shares have been invited according to the law and the articles of association, and that shareholders and others have not submitted any proposals to be discussed at this meeting. I would like to briefly now comment on the conduct of this meeting. We have no voting agenda items today. We only have agenda items for discussion and for information. We would like to give an opportunity to ask questions to all shareholders and holders of the depository receipt of shares to ask questions during the EGM.
If you want to ask questions during the meeting through the live chat function, please do it as quickly as possible, allowing us to answer your questions during the relevant agenda items, and we will indicate the moment we will close the chat function. Prior to this EGM, we have received questions from VEB and PGGM. In answering the questions per agenda item, we will first answer the previously received questions. VEB and PGGM will receive an opportunity to speak themselves and to ask follow-up questions by means of a telephone connection if they wish to do so. Subsequently, after dealing with their questions, the questions of VEB and PGGM, we will answer the questions that will have been raised by participants during the EGM through the live chat function. That concludes agenda item one. I now turn to item two, Corporate Governance.
We are now going to discuss the corporate governance of ABN AMRO. In order to accelerate the implementation of our new strategy and in order to serve our clients as a bank with a personal touch in a digital era, our bank is simplifying its corporate governance. In order to align the structure of the bank with our ambitions, the four business lines in the bank will be replaced by four client units organized around the client segments, personal and business banking, wealth management, and corporate banking. In the new structure, three new Chief Commercial Officers will be appointed to manage the three new client segments. The Executive Board is the board under the articles of association of ABN AMRO.
The Executive Board and its members are responsible under the articles of association for the daily management of the bank and are accountable to the Supervisory Board and the AGM. Together with a number of members of senior management, they make up the Executive Committee, and this Executive Committee was introduced in 2017. The members of the Executive Committee that are no board members under the articles of association operate under the responsibility of the latter. They are closely involved in the decision-making process of the Executive Board. By merging the Executive Board and the Executive Committee into one Executive Board, we will contribute to a more integrated governance, a simplified organizational structure, and we'll also see a representation of all client segments in the Executive Board at the highest level of the bank.
Both the executive board and the supervisory board have made a critical analysis of the intended structure and believe that the new structure will make a positive contribution to the efficiency and clarity in the distribution of responsibilities within the board. In the new structure, the board will be made up of a CEO, a Chief Financial Officer, a Chief Risk Officer, a Chief Information and Technology Officer. The three already mentioned Chief Commercial Officers, and a CHRO. Choy van der Hooft-Cheong will become Chief Commercial Officer of Wealth Management. Dan Dorner will become Chief Commercial Officer, Corporate Banking. Both will become new members of the executive board. The appointment process of a CCO Personal and Business Banking is still ongoing. Gerard Penning, currently member of the Executive Committee, will continue his position as CHRO in the executive board.
The three candidates I just mentioned will introduce themselves in a moment under agenda item three. Pieter van Mierlo, CEO, Private Banking, is resigning in the light of the termination of his term of office as of the moment of the appointment of Choy van der Hooft-Cheong. Frans van der Horst, until the first of March 2022, will manage the client unit, Personal Business Banking, and is accountable about this to the CEO until the appointment of a candidate for this position. As of that date, Frans also will resign given the end of his term of office. Daphne de Kluis, previous CEO, Commercial Banking, as well as Rutger van Nouhuijs, previous CEO, Corporate & Institutional Banking, have already resigned as members of the Executive Committee and are continued their careers outside of ABN AMRO.
Daphne de Kluis handed over her task as of September first of this year to Patrick Pfaff, who is temporary ExCo member for the business line Commercial Banking as of September first. With the introduction of the new governance structure, Patrick will step down as member of the ExCo, but continue his career within the structure of the bank. Rutger van Nouhuijs, in his resignation, handed over his task to Dan Dorner, who is fulfilling this task as an interim manager in order to make possible a smooth transition to his new position as CCO Corporate Banking. With the resignation of Daphne de Kluis and Rutger van Nouhuijs, and the termination of the terms of office of Frans van der Horst and Pieter van Mierlo as members of the ExCo, we are going to miss four highly motivated colleagues.
With their years of experience, they have made a very valuable contribution, and to the very last day, they remained committed to the bank. We are highly grateful to them for this. As for the nomination of a candidate for the position of Chief Commercial Officer, Personal and Business Banking, we will notify your EGM at a later moment. The bylaws of the executive board and the bylaws of the supervisory board will be amended to meet the new governance structure. Now you have an opportunity to ask questions about agenda item two. As said before, we have received questions about agenda item two from VEB and PGGM. The first question was submitted by VEB, which is whether ABN AMRO can mention any examples of situations in which the previous governance structure was an impediment. Robert, can I give you the floor?
Let me start by saying that the new organization is a major step toward realizing our strategic ambitions. In the new structure, we will be still better able to serve our customers. We are basically structuring our organization around customer experience and client interests. That means that, rather than focusing on the vision of the bank of market segments, we are using the perspective of our clients as the guiding principle for our organization. As Tom said, the Executive Board will be expanded and will replace the Executive Committee. One Executive Board is less hierarchical and less complex, so that we can be more responsive and more efficient. In addition, the Executive Board will bear collective responsibility.
Thank you.
The next question is also from the VEB and is whether ABN AMRO can elaborate on how the envisaged simplification of the corporate structure with three divisions of personal and business banking, corporate banking, and wealth management will manifest in practice. Robert, could I hand over to you again?
Yes, thank you. Well, what we're doing here is we're structuring the three client units in the same way, and we're doing this to enable them to work as a single bank to serve the clients' interests. Basically, we're going to offer both convenience and expertise, and we will provide our day-to-day banking services increasingly online. At the moments that are important for our clients, we'll be there to support them with our knowledge of the industry and our expertise in sustainability, which is what the bank has invested in for years.
That's the guiding principle of our strategy. Now, wealth management and corporate banking will be mainly expertise-driven. Our digital products and services will be centralized in personal and business banking since this unit focuses mainly on convenience. In addition, we will certainly continue increasing efficiency at the bank to eliminate duplicate work, and increasingly centralize the development of IT infrastructure.
Thank you. Now I'm going to continue with some of the questions asked by PGGM. The first is whether we can explain how the introduction of the Executive Committee in 2017 has made the organization more customer-focused, responsive, and efficient in recent years. In addition, PGGM indicates that the reason why we're introducing the new board structure closely resembles the line of argument in 2017 behind introducing the Executive Committee, which was efficiency and client interests.
PGGM asks us to explain why we say that this amendment of the corporate governance structure will bring about a more efficient and client-focused organization.
Shall I kick off?
Sure.
Thank you. Well, perhaps I'll talk about the past a little bit. From 1 April 2010 until 1 March 2017, the board did indeed comprise a Management Board and a Supervisory Board. At that time, on 1 March 2017, the board was amended by introducing the Executive Board and Executive Committee structure, and that safeguarded the focus on clients at the top of the bank. There was nothing intrinsically wrong with that structure, and it was logical at the time. In this new structure, we are aligning our system with the strategy that we communicated recently.
We're creating one board under the articles of association that's clearer and more efficient with respect to the decision-making process. That means that the new structure will enhance efficiency and customer focus at ABN AMRO, thanks in part to the strong representation of the client units within the board under the articles of association. By merging the executive board and the executive committee into a single executive board, this will be conducive to more integrated management and ultimately a simplified organizational structure.
Let me add that the detailed discussions were conducted both within the executive board and within the supervisory board about this modification of the structure, and I've had many bilateral talks with Robert about this. The supervisory board entirely supports this new structure. That's clear from the fact that it's on the agenda here.
Together with the Executive Board, we're convinced that this new structure will bring about a far more client-focused organization than we had until now. The Supervisory Board is wholeheartedly behind this development. Now on to the next question from PGGM, which indicates that in our board regulations, the responsibilities of the Executive Board and the Executive Committee are described. The PGGM wonders how the board regulation will need to be amended when the Executive Committee is discontinued. Well, understandably, we will be amending the regulations for the Executive Board, the Supervisory Board and their committees pursuant to the new board structure. We've already achieved a lot of this, and I expect that we can conclude this fairly soon.
There will no longer be an Executive Committee, and the distribution of duties within the Executive Board will be elaborated in the board regulations according to the individual profile descriptions of the members. The VEB asked a question about our Supervisory Board member, Jürgen Stegmann , stepping down on 5 November of this year at the shareholders meeting in 2020. Jürgen Stegmann had been reappointed for a new three year term. The VEB would like the Supervisory Board to elaborate on his stepping down, as well as on how the Supervisory Board will ensure his succession. As indicated, Jürgen Stegmann is stepping down for personal reasons. We understand and respect his decision and thank him for his contribution to the Supervisory Board of ABN AMRO in recent years. Jürgen Stegmann 's duties will be accommodated internally for the time being.
Next, a question from the VEB about the composition of the Supervisory Board. The Supervisory Board comprises officers serving their first term, and in fact, that's not really correct. Mr. Dorland is serving his second term. In addition, the term of both the Supervisory Board chair and Supervisory Board member Tjalling Tiemstra will end after the AGM in 2022. Is there a lack of continuity within the supervisory body that is cause for concern? Is that the case? We disagree. Mr. Dorland is actually serving his second term, so he's not on his first term, and I can be reappointed after the AGM in 2022. I don't agree with this. The Supervisory Board comprises a combination of experienced members and members who joined more recently.
You have to have a certain resonance so that you can consistently accommodate an inflow of new supervisory board members, and the most recent one joined a year ago. In addition, as I experience every day, these people have broad collective experience, whether at ABN AMRO or at different organizations. Next, a question from the VEB. This question concerns the return on equity ambition of ABN AMRO. ABN AMRO has a return on equity ambition for 2024 of 8%, and the realized return on equity or ROE is significantly below that. Should ABN AMRO be considered capable to organically achieve the economic value in which ROE structurally exceeds cost of capital?
Let me start by telling you that the strategy we communicated last November reflected very clear choices.
We are going to be a personal bank in a digital era, and we focus on scale and quality service in Northwest Europe. We are still pursuing a return on equity of approximately 8% in 2024. That's also the period in which we expect the risk costs to normalize. We expect cost savings programs to have been completed, and we expect the growth initiatives to start bearing fruit. As for a 10% return on equity, I've always said that will be our ambition, but that will require some normalization of the current low interest rates over time.
Thank you. Next, the VEB has a question about the strategy presented in November 2020, especially about the topic addressed concerning bolt-on acquisitions in private banking.
The VEB is asking whether, in that segment, the ABN AMRO has identified candidates for acquisition that would provide a prospect of adequate returns. Robert?
Well, as you're used to me responding, I do not provide specific names. Previously, we mentioned that we're interested in bolt-on acquisitions, and we've confirmed that in previous quarters. If opportunities arise, then we'll certainly consider them.
Thank you, Robert. The next question from the VEB is that recently in the media, there were reports that the ABN AMRO is considering potential acquisitions within Europe, and the VEB is wondering whether ABN AMRO considers acquisitions a basic condition for remaining relevant. Robert, over to you.
That's an intriguing question, and we have always said, including in our explanation of our strategy, that we bank with bankers and in banking, scale is incredibly important.
We have enough scale, and our ambition is to grow. That's correct. We're dedicated to implementing our strategy independently, and we're making excellent progress there too. As I just indicated in my previous reply, if there are opportunities for bolt-on acquisitions, we'll certainly consider them in the Netherlands and Northwest Europe within the current choices of our strategy.
Thank you. The next question from the VEB is about the results for Q1, Q2, and Q3 this year, which reveal that ABN AMRO is operating with a cost ratio in excess of 70%. In that context, the VEB wonders whether ABN AMRO is able to reduce the costs to achieve a significantly better cost efficiency.
Yes, in 2020, specifically November, we provided a very clear description of our cost development.
Please note that ABN AMRO has always been very good at curtailing costs from EUR 5.1 billion - EUR 5.3 billion. That was the plan and remains the plan for 2021. In 2024, we envisage costs of EUR 4.7 billion, and we've disclosed that. We retain those objectives consistent with the communication we disclosed previously.
Thank you. That takes me to the last question from the VEB so far. That question is about the fact that the Dutch state announced that it intends to provide certain sectors with lower financing options, specifically export credit insurance, which will no longer be supported. That means the state guarantee. The VEB wonders what, according to ABN AMRO, the consequences are likely to be of this decision for its clients. It was recently disclosed.
Well, at present, it will not impact existing financing. As for future financing, it could have an impact to a greater or lesser degree, but we can't make a generic statement about that yet. This was very recent information, so it's almost impossible to provide a clear answer about that yet.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, those were the questions asked in advance by the VEB and PGGM. Both stated beforehand that they would like to use the opportunity to ask live follow-up questions by telephone. I'm pleased to give the floor to the moderator for the follow-up questions by the VEB.
Hopefully, we're now connected with Mr. André Jorna of the VEB. If you press star, you can ask your question live, Mr. Jorna. Please go ahead.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Regarding the simplified organizational structure, my question is, will this structure also be carried down scale? What's the position of the EWC, which has indicated that as long as this has not been concluded, we will not accept any requests for advice to further simplify the structure, and we won't be considering additional requests.
I'll hand you over to Robert to answer the combination of questions.
We will certainly not restrict this organizational structure to the upper echelons. It will be carried over throughout the organization, and we're now in a constructive consultation with the employee council. We continue to do that, which means that the next step, immediately below the Executive Board, will be implementing it there too.
I have a second question that mainly addresses the possible acquisitions that ABN AMRO might be able to perform, which would simplify the banking landscape in Europe. The European Central Bank supports this simplification, but if you consider candidates, Mr. Jorna, are you capable as a major shareholder to go along with that process? Have you consulted the state as the majority shareholder to support this trend?
Mr. Jorna, part of what you said was not audible. Do I understand that you're asking if the ECB supports simplification of the banking landscape in Europe? So that might mean consolidation trends. I am not sure whether that automatically entails simplification.
What you're asking is whether, as far as ABN AMRO is concerned, because the state still holds some 57% of the shares, it is supported by NLFI and the Dutch government. Is that what you're asking?
Yes. If you want to make purchases, financing will be necessary. You don't have that cash on hand. The question is whether the state will be supporting you in those efforts.
Okay. Robert.
Well, what I need to tell you is that we set our own acquisition policy, and of course, we'll include our stakeholders wherever required by governance. That's not relevant at this stage, because right now we're trying to see how the market will evolve.
I think if you have additional questions about the state and its role as a shareholder, it would be best if you address the state with those questions than us. You can, of course, assume that any governance compatible with M&A operations will be complied with rigidly on our part.
May I conclude that, if you don't request the state for money, you'll consider an issue, for example, if you wanted to acquire Danske Bank or another major bank?
No, I don't think you can conclude that.
Well, I think we need to say this loud and clear. As you're formulating it, you cannot infer anything from my words. We have our own policy, and we look at the point for a possible acquisition, and that's when we'll decide.
Thank you. Do you have any questions on behalf of the VEB?
Perhaps at the appointments.
Okay. That will be at item three of the agenda.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Next, I'd like to know whether PGGM has any follow-up questions. We have possibly a follow-up question from Ms. Gillian Gailliaert of PGGM.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm Gillian Gailliaert . I work at PGGM. Mr. Chairman, I have two follow-up questions, and I'm asking them on behalf of PGGM, APG and its participants. First, what has been the experience of the ExCo and the Supervisory Board? And second, can you describe the internal decision-making regarding this topic?
Well, I'll answer the question about the experience of the ExCo and the Supervisory Board, and it was very thorough.
We had several extensive sessions within the Supervisory Board in conjunction with the Executive Committee, and obviously, we spoke with the Employee Council about this as well. We conducted all stages of very thorough decision-making to avert an overly hasty decision that was not carefully thought out. We wanted a carefully considered decision. As for the Supervisory Board's experience with the ExCo structure, I think the fact that we decided to merge them into a single board under the articles of association, an executive board, as we call it, reflects how the Supervisory Board perceived the ExCo system. Together with the Executive Board, we are of the opinion that if we have one board under the articles of association, that will enhance the leverage of the bank's upper echelons, and that will cascade and improve leverage there as well.
That way, we can focus carefully on the clients so that we can digitize certain parts of the company more forcefully, and the supervisory board is squarely behind this decision. I'm not sure whether Robert would like to share anything about the ExCo experience as well, very consistently with what you indicated.
We expect that by deploying this structure as we're proposing, then the leverage and commitment within the board will be enhanced. Of course, that complies with the strategy that we envisage.
Any more questions?
No, thank you.
I am going to ask the moderator now whether we have any questions through the live chat function.
No questions through the live chat function, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you very much. That concludes item two of the agenda. We now turn to agenda item three, and that is the composition of the Executive Board of ABN AMRO.
This agenda item covers three underlying items, and I propose to discuss 3(a) , 3(b) , and 3(c) in one go. After that, obviously, we'll have an opportunity to ask questions about agenda item three, questions either to us or to the nominees. The search of the Supervisory Board for candidates for the position of Chief Commercial Officer of the three client units has led to the nomination of Choy van der Hooft-Cheong and Dan Dorner.
Both candidates within ABN AMRO have years of experience as highly respected and effective top managers. In addition, they have shown their capacity to work together excellently, to be strong in building up relations, and to be highly focused on implementing strategy. The ECB has already approved the intended appointment of Dan Dorner and Choy van der Hooft-Cheong. Gerard Penning had already been approved by the ECB for his current position within the Executive Committee. The employee council has issued a positive advice on the intended appointments. The most important remuneration items of Dan, Choy, and Gerard have been published on the ABN AMRO webpage. Let me now start with agenda item three A, the intended appointment of Dan Dorner as Chief Commercial Officer.
On 11 October 2021, the Supervisory Board announced the intended appointment of Dan Dorner as Chief Commercial Officer, Corporate Banking, member of the Executive Board. Dan held several managing positions within ABN AMRO. He has been Global Head, Financial Restructuring and Recovery, and Global Head, Structured Finance Lending and Portfolio Management, within Corporate and Institutional Banking. Currently, he holds the position of Head, Corporate and Institutional Bank, non-core, and temporarily, he holds the position of ExCo CEO, Corporate and Institutional Banking. After this EGM, he will be appointed by the Supervisory Board for a term of office of four years. His term of office will end at the closure of the annual general meeting of 2026. Dan is present. He is present virtually for you, and he's happy to personally introduce himself to you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
It's a pleasure to briefly introduce myself and to explain why I'm happy to become a member of the Executive Board. A few words about my personal background. I'm 45 years old. Originally, I'm from Romania, and I have been living in the Netherlands since December 2009. My wife is also Romanian. We have been married for 21 years now, and we have two children. From the outset, it was important for us to learn the Dutch language because language holds the key to the culture of a country. We, as a family, feel completely at home in this multicultural and multilingual environment. Recently, I also obtained Dutch nationality, Dutch citizenship. Both my parents worked in audit, and later, they had regulatory positions with the National Bank of Romania. In other words, I learned an interest in the financial world at my mother's knee, so to speak.
I graduated at the Babeș-Bolyai University in 1998 with a major in banking and capital markets. In 2006, I obtained my executive MBA diploma. I subsequently studied at IMD in Lausanne looking into strategic management, and I studied corporate governance and governance dynamics at Nyenrode Business University. In 1999, I started working with ABN AMRO in Romania. I worked in several customer-focused positions in our agency network, serving both corporate and retail customers. In the end of 2009, I received an opportunity to move to the Netherlands, and I received the mandate to rebuild our capacities in lending operations by means of syndicated loans and capital market products. During that time, I accompanied major financing transactions for our corporate and institutional clients, while at the same time assisting the growth of our product offer in Amsterdam, New York, Singapore and São Paulo.
Subsequently, I moved to Risk Management, where I became a member of the management team as head of the unit's exceptional management. In that capacity, I was actively involved in complex restructuring processes and the settlement of insolvency cases, often happening in various or several jurisdictions at the same time. This is how I encountered the changing regulations in this field. In 2019, I became a member of the management team of Corporate & Institutional Banking, where I was responsible for all activities concerning lending services, portfolio management and equity investments. For the past 14 months, I have been working, unwinding a number of non-core activities within CIB. In this process, we are way ahead of schedule and this is already positively affecting the risk profile of our bank.
All in all, I therefore accumulated knowledge and experience in the various client and product segments, in international jurisdictions and in risk management. All this has given me insight into the changing needs of our clients and our colleagues. It has given me an understanding of the situations they face. It has also opened my eyes for our changing environment and all the stakeholders in that environment. It has opened my eyes to what society expects from us. Today it is an honor for me to be nominated to become a member of the Executive Board of ABN AMRO. ABN AMRO is a bank I've been admiring since my time as a student, given the brand, given the people working there, and given the agility of the bank.
I'm aware of the fact that ABN AMRO is a different bank now than 22 years ago when I started my career here. Also, the environment in which we operate has fundamentally changed and keeps changing at a very high pace. Following our purpose, banking for better for generations to come, and following our strategy to be a bank with a personal touch in a digital era, we work day after day on bringing convenience to the daily life of our clients and to offer expertise to them at key moments. In addition, we simplify our products and make them more future-proof with a better focus on the selected client segments in the Netherlands and northwestern Europe, where we have sufficient economy of scale and expertise.
I am happy to put my experience to the service of achieving the purpose and strategy of ABN AMRO in order to create long-term value for all our stakeholders. In my future position, I will bear in the future responsibility for the expanding of a well-known and highly respected corporate banking client unit, but also, the responsibility for the ABN AMRO as a whole. This in order to embody our purpose in practice and to implement the strategy to make sure we have good governance, good decision-making, and good results. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I conclude my introduction, and I'm happy to answer any questions.
Thank you, Dan. Ladies and gentlemen, this brings me to agenda item 3(b) . If we have any questions, they will be taken at the end, and then I may ask you to respond.
Item 3(b) is the intended appointment of Choy-Lin van der Hooft-Cheong as member of the Executive Board with the title Chief Commercial Officer of Wealth Management. On October 2021, the Supervisory Board announced the intended appointment of Choy-Lin van der Hooft-Cheong as Chief Commercial Officer, Wealth Management, member of the Executive Board. Choy-Lin has been working with ABN AMRO for 25 years now, and during the first 20 years, she held several positions within Corporate Banking. Currently, she is Managing Director, Private Banking Clients, Netherlands. After this AGM, Choy-Lin will be appointed by the Supervisory Board for a term of office of four years. Her term of office will terminate at the closure of the AGM in 2026. Choy-Lin is physically present, and she's very happy to personally introduce herself to you. I'm happy to give her the floor.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'm very happy to briefly introduce myself. A few words about my personal background. My name is Choy-Lin van der Hooft-Cheong. I was born in the Dutch Antilles, and I moved to the Netherlands to study international economics in 1989. I remained in the Netherlands, although I'm very happy to regularly return to Curaçao, where part of my family lives. I'm married to Mark van der Hooft. He works in Germany, and we share our time between Frankfurt and the Netherlands. In terms of professional experience, immediately after my graduation, I started working as a trainee with ABN AMRO. My first position was in retail banking, and subsequently, I held several roles in corporate banking, serving both clients and working on products.
I worked a number of years for the bank in Mumbai, and before moving to the private bank, I was head of corporate sales global markets between 2013 and 2017, in charge of teams working in Asia and the U.S., Europe and Brazil. In other words, I worked for various client segments and in various locations. As a result of this experience, I know the needs of both our corporates and our retail clients. This means I can make a contribution to the wishes or the wish of the clients to be served by one single bank. I am convinced that we have all it takes to achieve our ambition. The ambition to be a bank with a personal face in a digital era.
Our bank has a very strong financial position and is working very hard to face the challenges of the entire banking industry, such as digitization, changing client needs, and the need to have an economy at scale in order to cover the increasing costs of digitization, the higher level of regularization and the expectations of society that go hand in hand with it. To conclude, I would like to address my motivation to become a board member and to have the role of CCO wealth management. I'm proud with the ambition and the resilience of this bank. I'm proud with all my colleagues who work day after day to serve our clients well, and I'm grateful to the clients who give us our trust. The banking industry is in a transition phase, and I am happy to put my experience and knowledge to serve the bank becoming future-proof.
Private banking division is a familiar field. I started working in the management team of my predecessor, Pieter van Mierlo, in 2017, and since then I was responsible for ABN AMRO MeesPierson and our private bank in the Netherlands, market leader and the largest part of private bank operations. I work with a lot of pleasure and dedication on building a strong private bank in the Netherlands and in the other countries where we are present with private banking, France, Germany and Belgium. I'm also a member of the supervisory board of our German private bank. Over the past years, I've experienced and shown how cooperation is the key to success. This is something we will need in the future as well in order to achieve our ambitions. I have great expectations of this new challenge. I'm very proud to see that I'm homegrown, as they say.
It's nice to know that I can build on a very strong team of wealth management and that I will be part of a highly driven and motivated executive board, supported by a supervisory board with immense knowledge and experience. I look forward to entering to our common journey. Chairman, I'm happy to conclude my introduction here, and I'm looking forward to any questions.
Thank you, Choy. As said before, we will have the opportunity to answer questions after the presentation. We now turn to 3C, and that's the intended appointment of Gerard Penning as member of the executive board. On 11th October 2021, the supervisory board announced the intended appointment of Gerard Penning as Chief Human Resources Officer and member of the executive board.
Gerard has been working as the Chief Human Resources Officer with ABN AMRO since 1 August 2020, and at the moment of his appointment, he immediately became a member of the executive committee. Given the experience and passion of Gerard, given his talent to connect with people from all layers of the organization, the bank keeps working on a culture of excellence for everyone working within the bank. After this AGM, the supervisory board will appoint Gerard for a term of office of three years. This is in line with his current term of office. His term of office, therefore, will terminate at the closure of the AGM in 2025. Gerard is physically present in the room and is very happy to introduce himself to you. I now give you the floor.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'm pleased to introduce myself to you this afternoon. First, I'd like to tell you a bit about myself and the person behind the position. I was born and bred in The Hague. Nearby the coast and the beach and the sea are to me an important sports site and also a leisure site. I married with Petra, and Petra is a psychologist and often presents me with a good and sometimes awkward mirror. Our daughter Juliet works at KPN and lives with her boyfriend in The Hague. After completing secondary school, I went to study law in Leiden because of my lifelong interest about justice and injustice and how you can bring about a just setting for everybody.
After completing my studies, I trained as an officer in my military service and started as an organizational advisor at De Eik Fondsenbeheer . I loved working there, and I also liked the rapid feedback about my performance. It was a wonderful place to learn, but after a few years, foreign adventures lured. I wanted to see the world and understand the world, and that led me to start my career at Shell, where I worked for 30 years. During that period as an organizational consultant, working in HR and then in Rotterdam, Essen, and Hamburg, I wore several hats and increased my responsibilities. Then in Hamburg, I transitioned to commercial operations. I became marketing manager, retail. That's a wonderful role. You're close to your customers and you're close to the market and everything that is happening.
Of course, you're pivotal in commercial success. Afterwards in The Hague as the commercial manager, I sold maintenance technology for several years. That was an entirely new type of work, and I set up global recruitment there, and I helped crystallize a new model for leadership development. That took me back into the playing field of HR, which reflects the incredible importance of every organization that wants to remain successful, relevant, and attractive. Such organizations, of course, want to be successful continuously. I held various executive positions for HR for different parts of Shell, such as global functions, before I transitioned to ABN AMRO. I was the HR person in charge of the production exploration and afterwards in refinery marketing and trading.
Consistently turbulent and volatile setting in an increasingly discerning society where different interests and opinions abound, as well as regulators, local policy and technological innovations, and you need to transition to sustainability and accelerate that. Of course, it's different but also the same as the context of ABN AMRO. I worked from London, where we as a family had a wonderful time. Since 2018, I've been active as supervisory board member for Sustainable Energy for All, an NGO with strong links to the United Nations that aims to give access to over one billion people who have no access to energy and want to provide this by 2030. In addition, as the supervisory board member of Alliander, I'm an important operator in facilitating the energy transition in the Netherlands.
Finally, I'll tell you about my motivation for wanting to work at the ABN AMRO. From the start of my discussions with ABN AMRO, I was fascinated by the challenges of the bank. This organization has an extended history, and for over 20 years I've been doing business with them personally and have been enjoying that in a rapidly changing market with a strong brand that is globally recognizable. There's also a significant purpose, banking for better generations to come that aims at creating value for society as a whole. The first major steps have been taken to a clear strategy, a strong team, and a clear plan for our future.
I'm looking forward to crystallizing this as Chief HR Officer, especially because in the past year I've worked with people from all sectors of the bank, and they all confirm the impression I had: high professional standards, collegiality, and very motivated to serve clients, as well as the courage and drive to take up our challenges together. In addition, what is extremely clear to me, we have everything it takes to meet the challenges of the changing needs of our clients, digitization and leveraging our scale, and last but not least, complying with the high measure of regulation and social expectations. I'm looking forward to contributing to this as a member of the Executive Board, always from the human perspective, because at the end of the day, what matters are people, our coworkers and our clients and other stakeholders.
Mr. Chairman, I'll leave it at this and of course I'll be happy to answer any questions.
Thank you, Gerard. You as shareholders will now have the opportunity to ask all three candidates who have just introduced themselves any questions you may have. We did not receive questions in advance, so I'll be pleased to give the moderator the opportunity to take any questions that may have been received via live chat.
Mr. Chairman. So far, no questions via live chat, but Mr. André Jorna of the VEB mentioned that he would like to ask some additional questions over the phone. Mr. Jorna, if you press star one, you can ask your question live now.
Mr. Jorna.
Hello. Can everybody hear me?
Yes, we can.
Good. Okay. Mr. Chairman, my compliments to Mr. Dorner that he learned such perfect Dutch so quickly. My compliments to him for that.
Both to him and to Mrs. van der Hooft-Cheong, it's wonderful that you have been able to recruit people from within your own ranks for these important positions. We're satisfied with that too. As for to Mrs. van der Hooft-Cheong, how does she expect to carry out her role in charge of wealth management, since we see that increasingly at large banks, the funds are increasing and the added value is under pressure because individual funds are no longer advised as fund managers, but increasingly they're packages with a mandate. How does she feel about this trend? I have another question for Mr. Penning, actually to you. Why are you positioning HR at board level as a facilities company towards operating companies? In addition, subsidiary positions such as supervisory board of Sustainable Energy for All.
I would like to hear whether you'll be discussing what you will and will not finance on behalf of the board.
First, regarding Mr. Dorner's Dutch, it's especially admirable because company language is officially English, and as we all know, the Dutch are very stubborn, and if they hear the tiniest shred of an accent with somebody who speaks excellent Dutch, they immediately switch to English. That's why it's particularly admirable that somebody from Romania has mastered such excellent Dutch. Why at board level? To me, this is very simple. A financial institution works with two types of capital. Financial capital and human capital. Ordinarily, the first is somewhat extensively represented at board level, such as the CEO and the CFO.
Because your second important capital may be even more important than financial share capital, if that's not represented at the Board level, that sounds like a very unfortunate decision. That's why there was never any debate about the question as to whether Mr. Penning could or could not be appointed to the Executive Board. That's why I'm happy to answer the question this way. Now I'll hand over to Choy, who faces a far more complicated question, which is, to which extent we're using mandates. Choy.
Thank you very much, Mr. Jorna, for your question. I can certainly understand why you're asking. As you know, at ABN AMRO, we track market trends, and of course, we're also talking with parties around us to see how we can align our services with them.
We do this in conjunction with our clients, and that's our present journey. As far as I'm concerned, we'll be elaborating that together in the time ahead.
Following up on that, don't you think it would be a deterioration if we look at the old-fashioned fund and private bankers who supported clients from the large banks with individual funds and not only with mandate funds, such as the Rabobank does nowadays?
Well, what matters at the end of the day is your total service model. We continuously try to see how we can align our service model with that, together with our objective of being a personal bank in a digital era. In addition to considering this intrinsic aspect, there are several factors that determine how you elaborate your service model for the future.
Thank you.
Moderator, do we have additional questions via the live chat?
Mr. Chairman, I have another question. The additional offices of Mr. Penning, how will that manifest in the board meetings?
Well, it won't manifest in the board meeting because we take great care to separate these offices and different hats. I'm a strong supporter, as everybody knows, inside and outside the bank, that people who hold a position on the Executive Board, and I know that they do need to restrict what they do outside because they have to invest about 100 hours a week in the bank, that, they need to curtail their extracurricular activities. We assume, and we have all kinds of mechanisms to safeguard, avoiding conflict between the primary and secondary positions of certain executive board members, as well as Supervisory Board members. We have excellent mechanisms to ensure that.
We have a compliance department that functions very well and closely scrutinizes such matters. I have no fear whatsoever of that. Any more questions via the moderator?
No additional questions were received via the live chat, nor were any other questions received via the telephone connection.
Okay. Ordinarily, we would have a deafening applause in this room to welcome the three new Executive Board members, but I'll give them that round of applause on your behalf. Gerard, Choy, Dan, we have very high hopes that you will deliver a stellar contribution as members of the Executive Board at ABN AMRO. That takes us to the end of this meeting. I am pleased to close this meeting, and I would like to thank everybody for attending and contributing to this meeting. The meeting is now closed. Thank you.