Hello and welcome to the B&S full year 2023 results call. My name is Laura and I will be your coordinator for today's event. Please note this call is being recorded and for the duration of the call your lines will be on listen only. However, you will have the opportunity to ask questions at the end of the call and this can be done by pressing star one on your telephone keypad to register your question. If you require assistance at any point please press star zero and you will be connected to an operator. I will now hand you over to your host, Peter van Mierlo, the CEO of B&S Group. To begin today's conference, thank you.
Good morning everybody. Thank you for dialing in. Welcome to our analyst call. As you must have noticed, we published our press release this morning and we'll do so tonight with the full accounts. For now, the agenda will be we'll talk a little bit about the 2023 highlights, the 2023 financial review as well as the outlook and obviously you'll have the possibility to ask your questions by the end of the meeting. If I move on, I move on to the 2023 highlights. Well, first of all, I'd like to talk a little bit about the progress in terms of our strategy, the strategy that probably you took notice of during the Capital Markets Day. Six items that we want to focus on, that we are focusing on this year and in the upcoming years.
First of all, autonomous and accountable segments. Let me talk a little bit about autonomous and accountable segments and what we actually think is important that we will achieve. So far, leadership teams within the different segments have been focused very much on sales and gross margin and have done that in the past quite successfully. We believe that leadership teams who are a little bit broader will actually maximize value creation in those different segments. So that's what we're working on as well as business control. Not only the accounting in general is done very, very well. Business control is done good but we do believe that we can still improve to actually use the financials also to take the right actions into the future to maximize value creation. The second one was operational excellence. Operational excellence.
Why we bring this to the table is cost control most importantly and secondly it's working capital. Those are two items, goes without saying, important for the total value of the company that deserve attention and we will be focusing on those. We will do that within the segments as well as in the holding which both of them are important. Third one is digitization. I mean, you can't beat the market if you don't digitize your processes, the internal processes, but also the external processes. We've been building our own ERP system very successfully. That will need to be built further because you need to constantly digitize your processes if you want to make it work into the future. Another aspect that we are working on is creating microprocessors, getting an infrastructure of microprocessors. Why?
To make the IT infrastructure less costly but also definitely more agile and more flexible. Fourth point of attention is culture and governance. We're working on defining a way of working within B&S, how to onboard clients, how do we work on this, bring those values that we've defined: reliable, eager, curious, human as well as agile to the table and bring those alive within the company and the different subsidiaries that we have. We've defined clear HR targets, employee engagement reviews, setting targets, decreased turnover, increased quality of staff. Both of them very important to get the right culture and the governance in place. It goes without saying that related party transaction will remain part of our interest and part of the things that we do act upon. These four elements we believe will lead to value creation into the future.
It will decrease net debt and it will decrease costs and it will increase gross margins. Last but not least, the strategic options which are definitely still out there in the market and on the table. First of all, goes without saying, mergers and acquisitions. Secondly, the government and defense market, given all the circumstances in the world, unfortunately a very interesting market so to say. I mean, the need for peacekeepers is probably not going to decrease and we will continue to invest in our logistical backbone to be able to differentiate compared to our competitors. If I look at the 2023 financial highlights then I look at turnover, obviously, EUR 2.2 billion, an increase of 3.3%, 4.3% on a constant currency basis. Has much to do with the dollar and FragranceNet in the US.
EBITDA increased by EUR 20 million as you've seen in the press release from EUR 90 million to almost EUR 111 million EBITDA, which was more or less projected by us in last June. Cash flow generation, you must have seen in terms of inventory, number of days is slightly below last year. Debtors at the same level. Creditors also slightly below last year. Bring us to a return on working capital of below 25% and as you know our target is 25% and will also be our target for 2024. If we look at the different segments, well, let me go through the different segments one by one on the next pages. First of all, start with liquors. Liquors did not have an easy year in 2023 due to market circumstances, due to an oversupply in the supply chain, higher interest rates that goes without saying.
But definitely the increased product availability did not help this segment. We've been studying the markets obviously for the last couple of years and our teams do sense that markets could be bottoming out over summer and that's also what we have projected. Beauty, beauty in terms of turnover had a good year. Difficult circumstances also more or less in the same line as liquors. So oversupply and interest rates nonetheless. Strategically, we believe a very good year. Growth in the very interesting B2C market in the United States. Making steps to grow in that same market in other parts of the world. We believe it's a very strong segment which has a good future. Personal care. If I move to personal care, yeah, personal care has benefited enormously of a strategy that was put in place five years ago, building their own private labels.
Due to the high prices, inflation, their personal label sorry, their private label revenue truly went up and with good margins. The other part of the business actually also benefited from product scarcity and those two factors that both played a role in 2023 actually gave us the possibility to grow revenue and EBITDA to the levels that you have seen. If I look at food, food did not suffer from any mistakes this year. I must say that in total they did a very good year if you compare that to last year. They prioritized and I think the team has done exceptionally well. They prioritized stability and service excellence, also service excellence through their platforms, King of Reach, and they focused their activities into their three markets that they're servicing.
So the duty-free channels, the maritime, and the cruise business as well as the export distribution into underserved markets. The duty-free channels, they are benefited from the better circumstances in the airline industry. The maritime and cruise business definitely benefited from market circumstances and the underserved markets is definitely a market that we need to address for multiple reasons. Turnover decreased a bit due to macroeconomic and geopolitical influences. Strengthened a bit but overall we do believe that they did the right actions to be ready for 2024 and years after. Health, our smallest segment, did not differ very much from 2022. It's stable. Nonetheless, we sincerely believe that there's growth possible. Definitely in the cruise market and the maritime. There's also synergy to be obtained with the food segment in those markets to grow into that segment.
Vaccine business, if global travel goes up then the health business also goes up. So that's an interesting part of their activities as well. And we have strengthened the management team also with people who are really focused on operational excellence and already in 2024 we took some actions to increase operational results in 2024 and 2025 and beyond. Retail, travel retail. Travel retail, two factors which are super important. One of them, we opened 17 stores in the last 12 months so to say. In 2024, those shops will grow into maturity. Very often that takes 18 months, 24 months, a little bit depending on in which industry you are or in which airport you are. And the other part is obviously the increase in global travel.
That is, still 2024 will be around the same levels as 2019, and afterwards all market searches expect global travel to grow again. Business travel is obviously important for travel retail. And the other part which is important is the geopolitical tensions. They don't help. Not flying over Russia doesn't really help the people from Asia to actually come to our shops in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East. That concludes my overall remarks regarding the two parts of our presentation. The first part, overall view of the six segments, and now Mark Faasse will bring more financial review detail into the presentation.
Lots to bring. Thank you. So good morning, and as said, I will now talk you through our financial developments in some more detail.
As previously indicated, our overall turnover increased by 3.3% mainly driven by the personal care, beauty, and retail segments as Peter just indicated. So gross profit increased by 13% and as a percentage of turnover, gross profit margins increased to 15.5%. The gross profit margin increase was the result of both the turnover composition within the group as well as focus on sales margins within segments. Please bear in mind that last year we had to report the one-off provisions in the food segments amounting to EUR 15.8 million and as such the normalized gross profit margins increased from 14.9% in 2022 to the 15.5% in 2023. We have included the normalization table in the press release for your reference. Operating expenses increased by approximately EUR 20 million to EUR 233 million.
The main part of this increase stems from the first six months of the year when operational costs increased by EUR 17 million. Although 3 million thereof stems from the acquisition of the Europe Beauty Group in May 2022. All in all, our operational cost increase for the year as a combined result of increased labor force and inflation amounted to EUR 14.2 million. The increased other operating expenses mainly relate to the increased warehouse cost, travel cost, and the indicated one-off advisory. As such, the indicated gross profit increase was partly offset by the increased operating expenses based on which EBITDA came in at just below EUR 111 million, an increase of 22% resulting in an EBITDA margin of 5%. Reported depreciation and amortization charges were impacted by the reversal of an impairment loss in the food segment positively impacting the depreciation charges by EUR 6.1 million.
Financial expenses increased by EUR 6.8 million to EUR 17.3 million. This increase is mainly due to the increased market interest rates. The interest coverage ratio came in at 4.7 which is within our Q4 banking covenant of 4.25. All in all, this led to a net profit of EUR 48 million of which EUR 34 million is attributable to the owners of the company and as such earnings per share stood at EUR 0.40 up from EUR 0.31 as in 2022. Then show me some elements that together led to the turnover increase in 2023. So the turnover increased by 3.3% already indicated. So organically, turnover grew by 4%. Acquired turnover contributed 0.4% and the development of the euro/U.S. dollar exchange rate had a negative impact of approximately 1%. That brings me to our financial position.
So solvency stood at 28.5% and is predominantly influenced by the fluctuations in the fair value of the deferred payments to minorities. Please bear in mind that the value of these deferred payments is based on the projected EBITDA and profit before tax for the years to come. So if the performance of these subsidiaries increases, the corresponding liability increases whereas no assets are being revaluated. Our net debt decreased to EUR 306.5 million as at December 31st. Our net debt EBITDA leverage stood at 2.8 which is well within our covenant and significantly improved as compared to the elevated leverage of 3.7 as per year-end 2022. Inventory rotation slightly improved to 89 days in 2023. That brings me to the slide of the non-controlling interest also included for your convenience. With the overview of all the remaining minority interest we have as a group today so dated April 16th.
So both the recently announced transactions regarding FragranceNet and Topbrands are included as effectuated in this table. So let me provide some more color on the net debt development during 2023. The decrease in our net debt position I can elaborate based on this bridge indicated here. So the net cash from operations amounted to EUR 79.5 million. 97, sorry. The investing activities, acquisition of subsidiaries, the indicated EUR 12 million mainly relates to the payment of the acquisition of the additional shares in FragranceNet as per the closing of last November. The other investments mainly concern the investments in new retail shops and the renovations of buildings. All in all, the net debt decreased by EUR 28 million. Then lastly, let's briefly zoom in on our working capital development.
So inventory increased to EUR 419 million with inventory in days decreasing from 91 days in 2022 to 89 days in 2023. But all in all, as Peter also already indicated, working capital relatively stable during the year. That brings me to the end of this part of the presentation and I would like to hand over to you, Peter, for the outlook.
So in terms of the outlook, we actually repeat what we've been telling you during Capital Markets Day. We expect to grow revenue close to 5% with stable gross margins and an EBITDA margin in the range of 5%-6% based on our current activities. Operating expenses as well as working capital remain a focus area and with the segments together with the management with Mark, Ken, and Bas, we will build autonomous and accountable segments also to maximize future value for this company. And with that, I'd like to turn to questions. So maybe the facilitator of this call can do the things that she needs to do to make that possible.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. Thank you. We'll now take our first question from Tijs Hollestelle with ING. The line is open. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks, Laura. Morning, gentlemen. Yeah, my first question I think is for Mark. I also indeed noticed the equity position impacted by fair value adjustments of non-current liabilities and I think that is what you meant by fluctuations in the deferred payments of the minorities. Is that correct? Is that the same?
That's a relatively easy closed question, Tijs. No, that's indeed impacted as well by the fair value adjustments which I indicated during the call.
Okay. And then let's say with the first payments on the Topbrands transaction which I think occurred in January, will that have a similar impact on the equity position of B&S?
That's already included. So basically what you'll see is that the first tranche of that payment is included under the short-term liabilities as it has been paid in January as you remarked already and the second payment is in the longer-term liabilities included in our balance sheet and as such both impact the solvency ratio of our company as well as partly the equity position.
Is there any other balance sheet item which is then impacted materially by this?
Nope, not that I'm aware.
Okay. Yeah. Okay. That's clear. Yeah, my second question is about the liquor business as I appreciate the comments you already made. Can you help us a little bit with the direction of the level of revenue in, let's say, the first quarter of this year, second quarter? Because we all know it's quite seasonal, but the fourth quarter last year was so light that I'm a bit confused by what the actual underlying level of this business now is.
Yeah, well, we'll publish revenue Q1, I think, in three or four weeks. If you look at those numbers, it is difficult. Let me say this, Tijs. The difficult market circumstances do occur also in the first two quarters, and we expect it to grow into the right direction in Q3 and Q4, and that's also definitely in our budget.
Yeah, so the best way to look at it. Yeah, the best way for us to look at it is on a year-on-year then. So let's say looking at what happened year-over-year in the fourth quarter last year and then give you an indication for the year-over-year Q1 2024, and potentially also the second quarter and then a recovery in the third and fourth quarter.
Yeah, that's how we look at it today. Yeah.
And it's not that you let's say structurally reduced the business so that you told your salespeople, "Okay, we no longer want to hunt for that type of client so in potential we can get back to historic high levels," or?
Yes, we can. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We strengthened the procedures but we did not limit access to clients. So that's what we've done. So it's not that there's definitely no strategic decision not to go into, I don't know, whatever, Africa or the US or whatever business. We have definitely not made that decision and definitely also not what we're striving for.
It is a business which is, you've got the global B2B business. That's one part of the business and the other part of the business is European retail and B2B business in Europe. So at the end of the day, there are actually three businesses but they are all influenced by global developments in terms of pricing, supply chain, and those sort of things. On the market side, they're influenced differently. So that makes it. That's what liquors is about.
Okay. Maybe one final question for now is the CapEx was relatively low during 2023 and if I remember correctly at Capital Markets Day, you mentioned that there is about EUR 8 million of maintenance CapEx per annum but that you also expect to invest EUR 22 million in the beauty business and EUR 12 million in the liquor business spread over a couple of years. Can you give us an indication how much CapEx for this year you expect and what will be first or is it going together or is it spread out?
No, although we don't give a CapEx target value, I would say on a year-by-year basis, you do recall correctly the information shared at the Capital Markets Day. So within the beauty CapEx you indicated, it concerns the building of a new warehouse which we currently started in the north of the Netherlands so in Farmsum, Delfzijl, all the way to the north. So yeah, the build actually started so from that perspective, that CapEx is expected to be coming in this year. The other items, these will gradually based on the business development as well as the market circumstances come into play as a business decision year on year.
Yeah. Okay. That's helpful. Thank you.
Thank you. Once again, ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. Thank you. And we'll now take our next question from Robert Jan Vos with ABN AMRO - ODDO BHF. The line is open. Please go ahead.
Yes. Hi. Good morning all. Thank you, operator. Yeah, I have a question on liquor and I had to reconnect so apologies if you already answered it but yeah, you clearly made some comments about the global liquor markets in 2024 and I heard parts of Tijs' question and also the answer but do you expect growth in liquor in 2024 as a whole? I understand the metrics in Q1 particularly and maybe also Q2 but for the years ahead, do you see a possibility to grow the segment? That's my first question.
Yeah, that will depend on market circumstances I believe. I mean, we do believe that the direction of the market will change during the year as said and that's what's also in the budget. So I'd need to take a very close look to the different quarters, Robert Jan, to see how that would play out. But we do expect liquor to make a positive contribution this year, especially because, no, due to the expected bottoming out over summer or in Q3. I don't know. Do we publish exact budgeted numbers per segment? I don't think we do.
No, but I would say as a general remark, Robert Jan, that projections for our segments can be expected in line with the guidance we provided during the Capital Markets Day on a segment-by-segment basis. So the growth for each segment can be, I would say, along the lines of those indicated growth figures. Of course, it's not spot-on or not exact science, but these are the, I would say, the indications of the growth for the segments.
Okay. I will double-check those. Thank you. My second question, I think you used the word normalization particularly when you talk about some cost items. I have a question on, yeah, I also see 2024 could be a year of further normalization here and there both for the better and the worse. So taking into consideration your comments on the liquor markets and also your liquor segment, do you expect or is it fair to assume that normalized EBITDA profitability, so excluding the one-off in Q2, will improve in liquor in 2024? And basically the similar question for personal care but then from the other angle, namely you reported 13.7% EBITDA profitability in this division and that is way higher than what we have seen in the past few years. So the question here is, is such a level of profitability sustainable?
So first, Robert Jan, let me indicate that wherever we have used the terms of normalization, I would expect at least from your question that we do not indicate the same normalization. So if we talk about normalization, we indicate the one-off costs which occurred, which we have also indicated for your reference in the press release. So that's the only normalization we indicate. So the normalization you seem to be referring to, but please confirm, is more or less market circumstances. That might have been correct, Robert Jan?
Well, I think in the outlook you mentioned that you project staff costs and other operating expenses to normalize. I didn't read that as a common one-off expense. But maybe then in general, I mean, liquor's EBITDA margin was very low in 2023, sorry, and personal care's EBITDA margin was very, very high. So yeah, what can you provide in additional color on these two divisions, which are quite important, of course, for the group?
Yeah. So first and foremost, let me get back on that normalization you indicate regarding the operational and staff costs. So what we have seen during the first half of 2023 that our operational costs increased significantly which we reduced. So the increase was less as per the second half of 2023. So coming into 2024, operational excellence as well as operational cost management is one of our key items which we'll be focusing on which in the end should result also in the EBITDA performance as indicated in our outlook. Then yet again, an EBITDA margin expectation on a segment-by-segment basis, we have never provided and as such, at this stage, we feel comfortable in providing our portfolio EBITDA expectations which from our perspective is a fair indication to build your expectations throughout the year.
Yeah, but there's one thing I'd like to add though and that's the private label and I already addressed it but the private label strategy that they started in personal care, I believe, five years ago, that's been quite successful. Well, not quite successful, has been really successful. So EBITDA margins, well, I will just the market's comments on that but we don't expect similar growth in personal care as what we've realized in 2023 but we do certainly believe in the strong performance of the segment for 2024 as well, Robert Jan.
Okay. Another question I have is on the group level, you guided or you reiterated your EBITDA profitability range as provided at the Capital Markets Day at 5%-6%. If we look at 2023, the underlying or normalized EBITDA margin was 5.1%. Do you expect an improvement versus that margin in 2024?
Well, it's not for nothing that we say 5-6, right? But it doesn't mean that we think it's going to be 6 because we said a margin between 5 and 6 and I'd like to leave it there not being too precise on those numbers.
And as compared to previous years, Robert Jan, we'll provide at least if we are able, we see to provide some more color on this as per the half-year figures as then we have some clearer view on the performance during the year from our portfolio.
But it's also easier for us to say I mean, we just need a little bit more meat on the bones for 2024 to narrow that margin.
Yeah. Yeah. And please bear in mind that of course, the most important quarters for us as a group of companies is yet to come. So the first quarter for us as a company is historically the slowest quarter. So the important quarters of both purchasing and then again selling out those items Q3, Q4 is yet to come. So therefore, that's the main reasoning we're quite reluctant to already provide some more guidance on this number, Robert Jan.
That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for that. I have two small remaining questions I think specifically for you, Mark. The first one is on the minorities. You executed a few transactions last year. The minorities number in the P&L was EUR 14.3 million, I believe. What would this number have been assuming all these transactions had been executed on the 1st of January or in other words, maybe some color on how this line will develop in 2024? The second question is, your net debt EBITDA is now below the target that you set at CMD 3.0. What are the implications of this? Will you do something with your dividend maybe or will that remain at the 40% payout ambition? That's it from my end. Thank you.
Okay. So let's first start with the last one. So indeed noted the leverage is below the target of 3.0. So as indicated this morning as well, we propose a dividend payout of EUR 0.16 this year which comes down to a 40% payout ratio which we also announced. So what we indicated during the Capital Markets Day that if our leverage would be above 3.0, that we would probably decrease our dividend payout and that if the leverage would go below 3, we might consider increasing the dividend payout.
But as you note that 2.8 is just below the 3.0, that's why we have decided all in all looking at the company's financial position that the 40% payout ratio for the dividends would be the most healthy decision for the company. Then your other question regarding minorities, if we look at 2024, of course, you can see the indication of that's why we also included this sheet for your reference that we currently have the 5% minority shares remaining for Topbrands. We have the 12.5% remaining minority shares in FragranceNet as being the main just to highlight those two.
So basically based on the projected results which we expect for those companies, I would expect that the minority share in the result will go down, but by giving any indication of an amount that would also imply the results we expect for those companies for 2024. And hopefully, as you will probably expect, we cannot give any specific color on those company-by-company basis.
That makes sense again, but you said it will come down, so that is helpful. Yeah, those were my questions. Thank you.
Sure.
Thank you. I didn't see any further questions in queue. As a final reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. We'll now have a next question from Maarten Verbeek from The IDEA! . Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Good morning. It's Maarten Verbeek of The IDEA! . Firstly, in your headline summary, you mentioned that KPMG issued an unqualified audit opinion. Could you provide some more color on that statement?
No, basically they issued yesterday the end of the afternoon, I think around 6:00 P.M., 6:15 P.M. Don't quote me on the exact timing but they issued an unqualified audit opinion on our annual report which will be as scheduled published also on our company's website tomorrow the latest but maybe even at the end of the afternoon. But don't let me overpromise another letter but anyway, it will be there tomorrow the latest, Martin. But you can't provide any information what it's concerning about? The annual report. So they audited our financial statements and they provided an audit opinion like every audit, an unqualified audit opinion, like a clean opinion I would say in some other wording.
And then secondly, you stated that in your liquid business you had a charge of EUR 4.2 million and you refer that you booked that one in Q2. However, if you look at the first half-year results announcements of 2023, you mentioned an amount of EUR 3.6 million which was related to three doubtful debtors. So could you explain the difference between 4.2 and 3.6?
I would say the position we took as per half-year 2023 was slightly increased for the full amount of the outstanding debtor position for that one.
Okay. So there has not been an additional doubtful debtor to that balance?
Nope. Nope.
Okay. And on the other hand, you had a gain provision release of EUR 4.3 million in food. Could you give some wording to that? Where it's related to?
Sure. If you recall the one-off provision we announced last year for the food division that comprised of two main items. So this one does not relate to the joint business partnership we entered into, but this one concerned the remote contract which took a lot of time to finalize, but now it has been finalized and most of the money eventually came in luckily. So that's the reversal thereof.
But at that moment, you took it in your gross profit as well, but in this case, it's only booked into the EBITDA and not in the gross profit?
No, it goes to gross profit again.
Okay. As well as gross profit.
Yeah.
Okay. That still falls into EBITDA.
In the end, it in the end.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. No, that's clear. Okay. Thanks very much.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll now take our follow-up question from Tijs Hollestelle with ING. Your line is open. Go ahead, please.
Yeah. Thanks, Operator. Yeah, I think there is some misunderstanding about the unqualified opinion because in the morning meeting I had this morning, some of my colleagues were also seeing that it has a major risk. But if I look at the definition, it's actually positive and unqualified opinion from the accountant is that there are no further restrictions or adverse comments on you. So you like to see that kind of opinion. Is that correct?
Exactly. Exactly. So it's a positive. It's a positive note. It's the only opinion you're going to have.
Yeah. Just to be sure, just to have that out in the open. Thank you.
No, no. Yeah. No worries. Okay.
Thank you. There are no further questions. Oh, there is one again, a follow-up from Robert Jan Vos from ABN AMRO. Your line is open, Robert. Please go ahead. Robert, your line is open. Would you like to unmute from your end, please?
Sorry. I was still unmuted.
Yeah. No, that's all right.
Thanks. Thank you for allowing me back in, but I have one remaining question. I think you mentioned that you see the travel market back at 2019 levels or roughly back at 2019 levels in 2024. Taking into consideration that you have opened a lot of shops, additional shops since then, what are the implications for your retail business then? Is then the floor expectations for revenue, is that a level similar to 2019 or is that too optimistic?
I'm lacking a little bit in terms of the number of stores we had in 2019 to be honest. But there are two. Let me reiterate or try to make this as transparent as possible. There are two positive factors which we think will occur in 2024. One of them is the growing the new stores to a maturity level because the first day you open a new store, that doesn't lead to expected revenue after three years. So it takes some time. And one store takes 12 months, the other one 18 months, the other one 24 months. It depends a little bit on the situation in the airport, etc., etc., etc.
But in grosso modo, to say it in good German, overall, if we want to stick to English, then we do certainly believe that this maturity to grow into maturity level will influence the revenue in a positive manner. And the other one is the continuous growth of air travelers in general.
Yeah, that's a positive, whereas it took some time to recover from the whole COVID situation that cannot be denied. But we are recovering as an industry which is super positive. Now, the third thing that I also tried to mention in the introduction was about business travelers and people traveling from Asia to Europe or from Asia to the US and doing a stopover. That is something that is still expected. There's no doubt about it. But the new way of working, Teams calls, etc., etc., how that will pan out in terms of the level of business travelers into those different airports where we have our services or where we have our retail shops, that's a difficult one to predict.
So those are the three things that I think are important to understand if you want to evaluate our travel retail business.
That's very clear. Thank you.
All right. Thank you. That's all the questions. I will now hand it back to Peter for closing remarks. Thank you.
Well, thank you so much. And thank you for hanging there. And I hope the technology actually worked out well for everybody. If you have any comments, I'm sure you know how to find Mark or myself. Thanks again. Thank you for following this great company. And let's try to make 2024 a success as well.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation. Stay safe. You may now disconnect.