Good morning, and thank you for joining today's call. I'm sitting here with Ralf Schmeitz, our CFO. This morning we published our first quarter 2025 trading update together with a presentation to investors, which you can find on our website. Here you can also find our disclaimers about forward-looking statements. Following Ralf's opening comments, we will open the line for questions. Importantly, and as a reminder, sell-side analysts who want to ask questions will need to register via the questioners link, which they can find on our website in the financial calendar. If you have not done so yet, you can still switch now. With that, Ralf, please go ahead.
Thanks Dave, and good morning. Good morning from sunny Maastricht. At least sun is shining and happy that is coupled with today. We'll take you through our quarter one results and a few of the strategic updates along the way as well. We'll zoom in into the business units as usual. Let me start with the overall picture and framing of our performance to date. We started the year in a good way. Overall, you see already a couple of numbers on this slide. Overall, 8% organic growth, very encouraging start of the year. Obviously that translated into a very nice step up in profitability. We've seen a 40% step up in EBITDA and a margin of 20%. We'll come back with some more detail, both for the group and the BUs in a little while.
Bear with me on that, but very pleased with that start of the year. On the strategic side, we also made good progress at the full year results. We already talked about the sale to Novonesis of the feed enzymes business. We're well on the way in completing that. We're waiting on the final go of two smaller jurisdictions. Confident that that will close into the second quarter. Reminder, we sold the business for EUR 1.5 billion, which will translate into a net cash of somewhat above EUR 1.4 billion. That will obviously drive a substantial book profit as well. We'll communicate that upon closing of the transaction. At the same time, we continue the exit of our Animal Nutrition & Health business. Very encouraging results. I'll come back to that a little later when we talk the business units, but also from an exit process, we continue.
I think it's been a public secret that we had the bids come in towards the end of April. We're very encouraged by the interest and the conversations we have with investors. We're now moving into the next phase where we start preparing for due diligence, our management presentations, and at the same time, we've narrowed the number of participants given the competitiveness of the process. We're confident that we'll sell the business in 2025. On the back of the sale of the feed enzymes, we also, and full year results, by the way, given our strong balance sheet, we also communicated the EUR 1 billion share buyback program. We've meanwhile started, I think up until today, we bought about 650,000 shares and spent a bit more than EUR 60 million. It's well on the way. We're buying as much as we can within the limits provided.
We will continue to complete the process in 2025. Also, from a balance sheet perspective, you have seen us active in the debt markets. I think timing was nicely timed just ahead of the volatility, and we managed to secure a EUR 750 million bond at attractive rates, basically ahead of all the maturities, and we do not need to be in capital markets for the short time ahead. With that, I think the good start of the year, the contribution of our self-help programs, I will allude to that when we deep dive on the numbers, overall EUR 45 million of contribution in the first quarter. Self-help coupled with the good start basically makes us confirm the outlook for the year at at least EUR 2.4 billion of EBITDA. I will show a few of the moving pieces in a little while.
Now, and I've said that at the beginning, let's zoom in in a bit more detail on the next page, looking a bit at the group. Overall, let's start with top line. Overall, we've seen 8% organic growth, nicely split between volumes and price, but you need to look a bit closer to that. The volume part is predominantly driven by the core business, Perfumery & Beauty, Taste, Texture & Health, and HNC, where the underlying growth is actually 6%. And the price is fully coming from A&H, just we'll see in a bit, where we see a normalization of the underlying conditions in the vitamin market, but at the same time, we also see contribution from the temporary vitamin impact that of which is estimated at EUR 85 million for the quarter, in line with the guidance that we gave. You also see a minus 2% from M&A.
As a reminder, those are the divested yeast extracts business and marine lipids business. You will also see that in the BU bridges on sale. We will continue to report transparently on the effect of that. You also see, by the way, that flow through in the EBITDA bridge, because on the back of that strong growth, very nice step up in EBITDA, and we have put the walk in at the left bottom of the slide. Overall, very nice increase on the back of the growth. We have seen a 24% increase in EBITDA, offset by the minus two from the deconsolidation of yeast extracts and marine lipids. In the business, a 22% step up, then supplemented with that temporary vitamin effect of EUR 85 million, which is another 18% step up in EBITDA versus prior, bringing the overall step up to 40%.
As said, with a margin that continues to improve as well and encouraging at 20%. Now, let's look a bit at the dynamics per BU, because I think it's going to be helpful also for you, starting on with Perfumery & Beauty. On the back of a strong 2024, where we've seen continued good demand for our products resulting in a strong step up in sales, we basically continue the year with another strong quarter in Perfumery. We've seen again a high single-digit organic growth in that part of the business with Fine Fragrance continue to do very well with that, even up to a double-digit step up again, while also Consumer Fragrance is continuing a very encouraging growth, coupled also with a strong ingredient portfolio. Also there, we've seen a very good growth in the first quarter. Overall, very encouraging results in Perfumery & Beauty.
Now, you'll see the overall growth is 3% in volumes, and that is driven by beauty and care. We already flagged a weakness in sun filters at the end of last year, and we also said that that is going to continue into 2025. I'll elaborate a bit on that. In the sun filter business, we have seen an acceleration of demand in 2023 and the first half of 2024. However, 2024 was a disappointing year from consumer demand for sun filters, resulting in quite some inventory in the chain. The unwind of that is something that you actually see in the first half of this year. Unfortunately, Q1 last year was a record sales for us in terms of sun filters. The impact in the first quarter is the biggest one that we'll witness in this year.
If you exclude the negative impact of sun filters, the actual underlying volume growth is 6%, which is in line with the strong performance I just alluded to. Overall, from a margin perspective, P&B, a very good margin as well, close to 23% in the first quarter. Now, if you compare it versus prior, you've seen a somewhat lower margin. I want to point out that last year we highlighted that Q1 was an exceptional margin, which also normalized in Q2 in that year. Also, obviously, the lower sun filters had pushed the margin somewhat below 23% for P&B, but it's an encouraging trajectory and it continues to improve as well. Moving on to Taste, Texture & Health on the next page. Again here, continued strong volume growth.
What we've seen last year, both in the first half and second half, a 9% volume growth actually continued nicely into 2025. It is encouraging to see that it's both the taste division and the ingredients division, both equally contributing to that 7% step up, which is also supported by synergies. We see an about 1%-2% contribution from synergies starting mid last year. We've also started to call that out and I'm very pleased with this performance where you basically see another 2% of synergies contributing to an above-market growth in Taste, Texture & Health. I'll come back to the synergies in a bit. Obviously, that volume growth translated nicely in some leverage on the EBITDA side. Overall, a 12% step up versus prior in terms of EBITDA.
The margin moved nicely towards the 20%, and that continues to improve in TTH in line with the plan. Keep in mind, you'll see here a smaller part in the M&A effect in the top line, because we're still providing Lallemand with the yeast extracts volume. There's still top line, but you don't necessarily see that in the margin and the 12% step up in EBITDA is net of the consolidation of the yeast extract business from a margin point of view. Now, looking at the regional lens for the business to give you a bit of color on that front as well. Overall, we see strong growth across the globe. However, the U.S. is weak. We've seen that already towards the end of last year and Q1 had a softer U.S. in those numbers. We are very encouraged by the global business.
You see here the strength of having a global business with a very strong local footprint. Now, I did want to come back to the synergies. As said, the pipeline continues to build very nicely on top of the actual sales that we're invoicing. On the next page, I wanted to bring back a couple of examples. The first one, Cocoa Craze, I wanted to bring back to a wider audience. We also showcased it at the sustainability investor event we had earlier in the year where we see sustainability as a clear value driver. This is clearly contributing to that and it's getting some nice traction. It's replacing traditional cocoa in the food solutions of our customers, but it also comes with a much better footprint where it reduces both the carbon and the water emission. A very nice product.
In the middle, yet another recovery hydration drink. As you know, beverage is an important segment for us. It is about a billion in size. The picture is one that we took from an image bank because we could not show the actual athlete, but a high-profile athlete is launching it. We are still a bit on the confidentiality, so we are happy to disclose that in the period ahead. It is yet another example where we bring the solutions, not only the taste, but also the ingredients together in a launch of new products. Last, some instant noodles. I also wanted to show whenever I get excited about synergies, it is a global opportunity. This is clearly with a big customer in Asia, where we combine again the taste and ingredient solution in a new offering. That is also a very nice win for us.
Moving on, looking again a bit at the financials, if we go to the next page to Health, Nutrition & Care. Also here, a continuation of the growth. We have seen the growth coming back as of half of last year, where we had 2% growth in the third quarter, 5% in the fourth quarter. Now you see an 8% volume growth in Health, Nutrition & Care. Pleased to see the volumes coming back with a continued recovery and good growth in dietary supplements, also driven by the algal lipids and the vitamins. At the same time, a strong performance in Early Life Nutrition, where we also went back to growth already starting last year. That is continuing, including contribution from HMO. If you generally look at the HNC portfolio, it is actually encouraging.
All of the segments are showing good growth, contributing overall to an 8% performance. Also from a margin perspective and in EBITDA, you have seen an absolute step up of 16% in EBITDA. You see that the volume is triggering the leverage. Keep in mind that the 16% step up is clearly net of the deconsolidation of the marine lipids business. You have seen that in the top line, at the bottom of, sorry, at the top left, where you see a minus 7% for M&A. Obviously, that had an impact on the EBITDA as well. Overall, the deconsolidated EBITDA in the first quarter is somewhat around EUR 10 million. From a margin perspective, continued recovery. Keep in mind that Q1 is never the strongest quarter for HNC. It is an encouraging path and we will continue to see an improvement on the margin side in HNC as well.
Maybe last but not least on the next page, Animal Nutrition & Health. Whilst we're continuing to make good progress on the sales side, as I commented in my introductory comments, I'm very pleased to see that the business is performing very well as well. Overall, a quarter with strong growth, overall 19% organic growth. If you look at the pricing effect, you see a step up in pricing of 17%. If you back out the impact of the temporary vitamin effect of about EUR 85 million, you allocate that fully to price, which is largely the case. If you were to back out that fully, then you'll see that two-thirds of that price effect is related to that effect. One-third is really about normalized conditions in the space.
At the same time, at the volume side, you see a continued good growth in our Performance Solutions business. The high single-digit growth on the back of a strong 2024 continues with the mycotoxin solutions contributing, but also precision nutrition firing on all cylinders on that front. The volume growth in the Essential Products is somewhat lower, where on the one hand, there's a clear focus on value. At the same time, what we've seen, and we've already seen that starting last year, is that we resell less volumes given the volatility. We focused on producing in that sense. Now, on the back of the strong growth and the vitamin impact, you see a massive step up in EBITDA. Overall, we've done EUR 186 million in the quarter, a step up versus Q4 again, whilst the vitamin impact is more or less the same at EUR 85 million.
The absolute step up in EBITDA is over $150 million in the business, meaning also that the underlying business is now above $100 million. That is something that we wanted to target as well and grow from here, also driven by the contribution of the vitamin improvement program. I do want to complement the A&H business with that trajectory and performance as well. Let's look at how that all translates into an outlook on the next page. Given that we had a good start of the year, a continuation of business conditions in April, and a solid order book for May, we maintain our outlook of at least EUR 2.4 billion. If you look at our portfolio, we are uniquely positioned and well placed to deal with the current volatile economic environment.
If you look at it from a tariff point of view, we're well placed to mitigate those effects. We're working together with our customers and suppliers to mitigate it to a minimum, looking at alternative supply chains and other measures. Where we can't mitigate it, we'll pass it through. I think that is something that is within our abilities. Hence, we're confident in being able to mitigate that. That combined with the self-help measures where you see the synergies contribute from a top line, we see the synergies contribute from a cost line, and we have good traction in the vitamin improvement program. All that leads up to an outlook of at least EUR 2.4 billion. Having said that, in that EUR 2.4 billion, there's now an upgrade of the temporary vitamin impact. We guided at the beginning of the year for at least EUR 100 million.
Given the performance in Q1 of $85 million and our commitment that we would update you as we go, we're now increasing that to $150 million, so a step up of $50 million. At the same time, given that we now have visibility on the closing of the feed enzymes business, we've also done the technical deconsolidation of that EBITDA, which is about $40 million. Technically, it's a plus $50 million from vitamins and a minus $40 million from the deconsolidation of the sole business, more or less a wash, and hence maintaining our at least $2.4 billion. With that, let me pause there. I'm sure there's questions out there. Dave, maybe time to open for Q&A.
Indeed.
As said at the beginning of this call, sales and analysts who want to ask questions in this Q&A session should have registered via the questioners link, which you can find on our website and the financial calendar. For sales and analysts who have not done it yet, they can still switch now. All the other participants can listen into this Q&A session by staying in this Zoom meeting. With that, I think we're ready to start. Operator, please, let's have the first question.
Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the Q&A session. If you have a question, we ask that you please use the raise hand function at the bottom of your Zoom screen. Once your name has been announced, you can ask a question.
If you want to withdraw your question, please lower your hand using the raise hand function in the Zoom app. Thank you. Our first question is from Lisa De Neve at Morgan Stanley. Please unmute yourself and begin with your question.
Hi, thank you for taking my questions. The first one I have is on raw materials. Can you provide us with an update on input inflation for 2025 and as things stand today, to which extent you may have to apply any price adjustments and whether you have already engaged with customers on this? Perhaps in a bigger light, can you just, I know we have high local production to sales, but just highlight where current tariffs may provide any challenges around procurement and so forth.
Can you just, a small one, tell us what's baked into the guide on effects for this year in terms of the EBITDA guide? Thank you.
Yeah. No, good morning, Lisa. Thanks for the question. First, generic on the raw materials. When we started the year, we guided for an inflation of around 1%-2%, and that is continuing. We do not see much deviation on that front. At the same time, we're closely monitoring it and see what the developments are. You see some energy coming down. At the same time, we typically have about 60%-65% hedged on that front. That is something that we're closely monitoring. The raw material development as such is kind of coming in in line with the plan that we had at the beginning of the year.
I think your question is probably also coupled with what do you see now in terms of dynamics around the tariffs. Maybe that is a good moment to be a bit more elaborate on that. Now, we're all confronted with the tariffs and we're finding ways to address them. What we've done is we've clearly looked into what is the overall impact. Maybe before we dive into what are the actions that we're actually doing about it, let's zoom out for a minute and scope the overall tariff impact a bit. Overall, if you look at our business, we're importing about $1 billion into the U.S. Out of that billion, approximately 20% is coming from China. What you also see is that in our categories, there's quite a lot of exemptions. Across the board, somewhat above 50% is actually exempted from tariffs today.
That is something that we've been looking at. It is where there's a lot of effort and cooperation with the customs team and the business to actually see where we're impacted. Now, we've done all of that analysis. We also started looking at, okay, talking together with our customers and suppliers, how can we overall mitigate that? If you then look at the overall impact of tariffs on an annualized basis, it's somewhat around 1% of sales max in terms of impact. However, if you look at some of the mitigating measures that we do, on the one hand, we have inventory, local inventory that is addressing part of that situation. We already have four months on the way into the year.
At the same time, we're looking at other ways to redirect some of the supply chains, looking at formulation and finishing opportunities to basically mitigate the overall impact to our customers. Where it's not possible, we are passing that on. We're passing on what we can't mitigate and what we're confronted with. That is something that we already started. I must salute the business teams. They've immediately been actioning it together with procurement, tax, and the whole organization really to minimize the impact. Where needed, we also started passing it through to our customers already in April. Maybe then from an ethics point of view, I think there we live in a volatile world, and it depends a bit on the flavor of the day. Let's not speculate on the development of the exchange rates.
We're looking a bit at the more shorter term. If the rates, or let's say the negative picture of last week would continue into the quarter, then you're looking at a risk of about $10 million-$15 million for Q2. For the rest of the year, I think the current spread predominantly between the dollar and the Swissie is not representative. Let's see how things will unfold in the year on that front.
Thank you very much. That's very helpful.
The next question is from Alex Sloane at Barclays Bank. Please unmute yourself and begin with your question.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking the questions.
The first one, you had talked about mid-single digit organic sales growth for the core business, core go forward business in 2025 overall, obviously a decent start on that front, 6% in Q1 underlying, but it is a more uncertain macro environment since those full year results. Is that mid-single digit still valid as a target for the year within the overall guide? That would be the first one. Secondly, you referred to some challenging market conditions in North America, specifically for TTH. Is that also relevant for P&B and HNC or just isolated to TTH? How do you see market conditions playing out into Q2 and for the balance of the year there in North America? Thanks.
Yeah. No, thanks, Alex, for questions. Good. Now, let's start with the organic sales growth. Indeed, an encouraging start, and the 6% is helpful.
I want to stress as well that the effect of sun filters will fade out, and we will see how we expect better conditions going into the second half. I think it is good if we immediately address the BU lens on that front. If you look at it from a P&B perspective, we expect similar conditions going into the second quarter, where I think sun filters might still push the overall organic growth somewhat down. Also there, we are expecting better conditions, as said, going into the second half. We are still guiding for mid-single digit on that front, maybe somewhat a bit more to the lower end given where we overall started.
Now, the underlying fundamentals are definitely mid-single digit, but given the weakness in sun filters in the first two quarters, that will bring us overall for P&B probably closer towards the lower end of mid-single digit. If you look at TTH, a very good start with the 7% growth. We are well on the way to deliver that mid-single digit. We actually see same conditions going into the second quarter, with April having the same dynamic as we've seen in the first quarter. Keep in mind that we're now starting to lapse Q2, Q3 last year with double-digit growth quarters for TTH. We continue to guide for mid-single digit in 2025 for the TTH business, whilst taking into account the tougher comps of last year. HNC is seeing good conditions across the board.
In my opening comments, I said how we see all the businesses contributing to that growth. There we continue to expect a mid-single digit as well, maybe a bit to the higher end on the back of early life and HMO. Let's see how that unfolds. From a group perspective, we're still on a mid-single digit trajectory. Now, tilting to your question on TTH in North America, I think generally, also if you look at the earnings releases of some of our customers, I think they're flagging a bit the weakness. I think it's linked to consumer confidence, where the orders might be a bit lower. People are keeping a little lower inventory. Let's see how that overall unfolds. I think we're just being a bit more careful. What you see is also that in TTH, it's a very much local business with 70% local customers.
There we see continued growth. At least in the short term, I think given the sentiment and the uncertainty, we would not be surprised if there's a bit more careful ordering. On the other hand, if you look at the other businesses, I think we've seen a somewhat stronger performance in the U.S. We're monitoring that closely. Given the local presence and the strong growth also in other regions, we're confident around the mid-single digit guidance for the year on that front.
Very helpful. Thank you.
The next question is from Nicola Tang at BNP Paribas Exane. Please unmute yourself and begin with your question.
Hi. Hi, everyone. Hope you can hear me. First question would be on the A&H divestment.
I'm not sure, Ralf, to what extent you can talk about this, but you talked about it being a bit of a public secret, I think you said. I think in some of the Bloomberg headlines, there was a reference around a valuation of around about EUR 3 billion. I was wondering whether you would be able to make any comments around whether or not valuation is progressing as you expect based on what you referred to as a competitive process and whether or not it sounds like no, but whether or not you see any risk of delays just given the kind of market volatility and the market uncertainty. The second question, perhaps on Perfumery and Beauty and Fine Fragrance, it sounds like double-digit growth in fine.
Can you talk a little bit more about drivers and whether you expect it to continue at this rate for the rest of the year? Thanks.
Yeah. No, I think two great questions. I think everybody would love to take out their pens and notebooks or recorders if I would be commenting on the valuation of A&H. Let me not do that given where we are in the process. As said, encouraged by the conversations we had. Yeah, we go into the next phase with confidence. It is a competitive process. Throughout this phase, I do not think it is wise to comment much further on A&H. For those preempting the questions, can you give a bit of color on the type of buyers and the like? It will be all the same answer. Let me refrain from that.
Other than that, we moved into the process where we narrowed the number of participants. We are moving now into the phase. We remain confident in selling the business in 2025. In terms of your question on Fine Fragrance, yeah, no, it's encouraging to see that that strong growth, to your point, continues. We recognize that. We've seen that last year. I think here what you also see, because this question is, how does that continue going forward? Does consumer confidence play a role into that as well? I think over the past period, it's proven to be a very resilient part. It's also a part of affordable luxury that continues.
The trends that we alluded to also when we did the full year results are very much still there, whether the impact of social media, the new generation buying perfumes, and that is driving the overall growth. You see that wider in the space. Also, some of our customers actually reporting decent growth numbers, which are the underlying driver for that growth. Now, I said it at the full year and I'm going to repeat it. I think that's my job as well, that I don't think there's any business in the world that can continue to grow double-digit until eternity. Obviously, the comms are becoming more and more difficult. At the same time, also going into April and looking at the order book that is solid, we see same conditions continuing. From a market dynamic, pleased with the Fine Fragrance performance.
Okay, great.
Thank you. Yeah, I didn't expect to answer anything in English, but thank you for the colleague gift.
Thank you.
The next question is from Chetan Udeshi from J.P. Morgan. Please unmute yourself and begin with your question.
Hello. Can you hear me?
Yeah, loud and clear, Chetan.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my questions. I was just going back to P&B. If I'm not mistaken, your beauty and care part within P&B is roughly 20% of total P&B. If you're saying the business beauty and care is up high single digit, it sort of implies the beauty and care part down 15%-20% year- on- year. Firstly, is the math correct? The second part, is that 15%-20% decline all market-driven, or is there some competitive changes that you see in the market?
One basic question, and apologies if this is ignorance on my side, but why is the beauty and care margin higher than your perfumery business? Because one would have thought the perfumery ingredients, not so much the ingredients, but the core fragrance part should be higher margin than the sun filters market. Can you maybe talk about why there is a higher margin in the sun filter part of the business? Sorry, last question. P&B, you did 2% organic growth on comms, which were plus 4% year on year last year. Was it plus 2%, I think? Now the comms are plus 13% in Q2. I am a bit surprised you are saying it will still be similar growth given such a high competitive base. Are you expecting any underlying businesses to improve in second quarter in P&B? Thank you very much.
Yeah. No, great questions.
Thanks for asking those. Yeah, the 20% is somewhat at the high end, high side of estimates in terms of the portfolio of beauty and care within P&B. Maybe let's go because I think your questions are more around how big is Sun and that as the Sun filters is around a EUR 200 million business. As said, Q1 was a peak. Now you see actually the unwind. It had quite a big impact. That's why we're also saying that effect will become smaller as we progress from here, given the dynamics that we're just comparing in the first quarter against a record quarter last year. Overall, if you look at those dynamics, it's something that we clearly looked in as well.
What you've seen is that in 2023, Chet, you've seen a steep increase in the sale of sun filters. I think you've seen the increase in travel all after COVID and the like. I think generally the business was doing well. That even continued into the first half of 2024. However, also on the back of a, yeah, how do you say that? A not-so-great summer, you've seen across the board globally, actually a slowdown in consumer demand for those sun filters. That market works such that in the end, there is also a stocking effect where if the retailers end up with inventory, basically our customers are exposed to that. That's the unwind that you actually see now.
It is, for better word, a temporary effect because now you have seen that unwind, which is basically unwinding the strong sales in the first half that did not find its way to consumers. We also expect that to be out of the way. Actually, the quotation season is now starting for the new period in sun filters. It is an impact that we will see in the first half. We have seen that coming. That is why we also guided for it, that it was not a surprise, but it is a sizable impact overall. It is one segment. The overall dynamics in beauty and care in skin and the like are actually good and continuing. Now, to your margin question, beauty and care is a good margin business for us.
Now, what you typically see, and I know that you often look at the P&L in a bit more detail and the like, the minute you lose a bit of segment in terms of sales, the underlying cost and the like are still there. So the absolute impact, you always have to compare that is the loss in business contributing to the overall profitability of the segment or not. Now, also sun filter is a profitable segment. If that sales is down there, you're missing a bit of leverage. Overall, P&B has a margin of close to 23%. That's something that we're saying that's also the trajectory that we continue. There is a somewhat impact in the quarter, nonetheless, a continued strong performance from a margin perspective. We'll bring that. It's already within the 22%-24% CMD guidance.
Yeah, I like to see the second number starting with a three. That is something that we'll continue to work on.
The next question is from Charles Eden from UBS. Please unmute yourself and begin with your question.
Hi, morning, Ralf. Morning, Dave. Just two quick questions for me, please. Firstly, just on the A&H disposal, can I just confirm that you'd still expect to communicate the selected acquirer in the summer? I guess that means June, July. Is that still a fair timeline? I think that's what you mentioned, sort of summer at the ESG event a month or so ago. Just to follow up on sun filters, am I right to say Q1 is the big quarter for this business?
Around half of those 200 million annual sales are typically generated in Q1, which in part explains the magnitude of that drag this quarter. Thank you.
Yeah. No timeline, yes. Do not quote me on the exact week or month, but that is the process that we are targeting. You heard me say it is a competitive process. We are now moving into the next phase with fewer parties. We need to see how we manage that through because, as I said, it is competitive. That might take then one or two weeks more. The aim is still to complete it within the timeframe that you indicated. Again, not pinpointing on the exact month, but that is the intention. That has not changed from earlier communications. Happy with that.
To the sun filters, the sun filter business is more, once a person explained it to me that I was running it and saying it's like an M. You have a strong Q1 and a strong Q4. Obviously, that's where the peak sales are in this business. It's not half of the business that is sold in the first quarter. It's more, if you look at it, it's about, I would say, just a little under a third around that impact. Keep in mind, Q1 last year was a bit of an elevated level. Q1 this year is really at a soft level. That's why it's causing such a big gap. Other than that, yeah, no other dynamics.
Understood. Thank you.
Thanks, Charles.
The next question is from Matthew Yates at Bank of America. Please unmute yourself and begin with your question.
Hey, good morning, Ralf. I had a specific question around your terpine business in light of Symrise yesterday announcing a strategic review of their asset. I believe DRT was by some distance the biggest deal Firmenich ever did at close to CHF 2 billion. There are two questions around this. One, can you generally comment on how that terpine business is doing? I guess the fact you did not rebuild your U.S. plant did not send a very positive signal. Is there any impairment risk as to your carrying value of that business? More broadly, to the extent the Firmenich team have come to you with further acquisition ambitions in due course to help them build out the platform, does this give you any pause and affect your comfort in allocating capital to what they may want to do given that track record on the DRT deal?
Yeah.
No, good morning, Matthew. Thanks for those questions. Let me not comment on what competitors are doing, but look at ourselves. We actually already last year, when we did the strategic review, we also commented at that point. We said, look, Pinova is for us not a strategic ingredient. We worked on a solution with our customers. Actually, we decided not to rebuild the plant after that fire. That was the synthetic part. If you look at the majority of DRT, the DRT business is actually into naturals where we have extracts from pine and the like. That is an essential ingredient going into our solution. If you look at the overall ingredients, because I think you have to zoom out and look at that, overall, ingredients is about a billion.
On top of that, we've got quite a sizable portion, about two-thirds of that in size, which is backward integrated for our own business. Of that billion, two-thirds, somewhat higher, is actually sold to the industry in terms of ingredients to third parties. Now, there's a small piece left. There also, as part of the strategic repositioning, we decided to focus on value over volume. Actually happy with the way the business is performing. P&B has done a good job in terms of integrating it and improving the performance. You see that in the overall margin profile from a P&B that continues to increase, including also a contribution from DRT on that front. In terms of the actions, Pinova, we already exited. The agro ingredients are part of the tuning action. That is for sale.
We also said we hope to be able to communicate a deal around that shortly as well. Within our business, we already addressed that. With the part that we've kept, it's clearly focused around naturals. That is something that we're very happy with as part of the portfolio. Now, if you look at the M&A, you heard Dimitri say also no M&A in 2025. We want to be prudent with that. We'll do that carefully. We've got our clear priorities for 2025, which is executing the synergies, executing the vitamin improvement, and executing the sale of A&H and completing the tuning actions. That is what we're currently focused on. Following that, we might look into that and some smaller bolt-on acquisitions. You made reference to the Firmenich family. I think that is not relevant. I think they are just any shareholder, just like any.
In the end, if there would be acquisition targets, then that is something that we'll assess over time. Like I said, it's currently not a priority for us at this point.
Understood. Thanks very much.
The next question is from Sebastian Bray from Berenberg. Please unmute yourself and begin with your question. Please unmute yourself and begin with your question.
Hello, can you hear me?
Yeah, now we can. Hi, Sebastian.
Hello, good morning, and thank you for taking my question. It's on ingredients, please, and built on some of the questions that Matt asked earlier. If we take this roughly 1 billion, my understanding is that a little bit of it might either go with A&H or be divested separately. If we take the remainder of the annual sales, what exactly are the primary drivers in there?
How has the profitability developed in an absolute basis as opposed to just relative margin basis between Q1 this year and Q1 last year? The slides do not reference it, but it is a pretty large sales component. In fact, it is bigger than beauty by some margin. I was wondering how exactly the absolute EBITDA has performed and what the primary products driving this are. Thank you.
Yeah. No, what I said earlier, two-thirds is actually going into the fragrance space where we basically sell ingredients to the industry. We have the widest portfolio of strategic ingredients. With that, we see this as a value add in our portfolio and a differentiating element going forward. That continues, and that is the driver. It is also linked to the overall dynamic in fragrance.
As I said, there are some side products that come out of the plant as load, and we continue to monetize those. You can look at the absolute EBITDA, but then you would have to go into every single segment, which is not the point. We steer a business on a portfolio. With that, we steer the overall growth. If you look at it from an organic growth point of view, we have seen encouraging growth also in the ingredients part of the portfolio in line with generally perfumes. From a margin perspective, if a segment would not be performing, we could not see a continued step up in terms of margin profile. That is what we are focused on.
That's what I said is that, I mean, we did 22.7% as margin in Q1 with the aim to continue to improve that going further, including ingredients. Both in terms of margin and absolute, you'll see a continued step up in that business too.
Thank you.
Operator, we have time for one last question looking at the fact that we are approaching the hour.
The final question is from Martin Roediger from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please unmute yourself and begin with your question.
Yes, thank you for taking my question. Firstly, can you explain the negative price effect in Perfumery & Beauty and in Health, Nutrition & Care in Q1? Is it just a pass-on of low input cost to your customers due to contract design? Secondly, one clarification question.
Did you say that the disposal of marine lipids in HNC had a minus EUR 10 million EBITDA effect in Q1? Thank you.
Yeah. No, happy to comment. Morning, Martin. No, the overall pricing is, as you say, also if you look at the breakdown on the segments, this is typically in the ingredient space or where we pass it on. You also see that in terms of the margin. We do not have any loss in terms of pricing. On the contrary, I think looking at our portfolio and the segments where we are, we are in a position where if needed, we can pass that on. I also made that comment in relation to the tariffs where we are trying to mitigate the impact. Overall, where needed, we are able to pass that on.
Where not needed, and in terms of the pricing and some of the ingredients, we also saw that at the end of last year where we said, look, it does not have an adverse impact on margin. In some of those contracts, you have a contractual agreement that you pass on the benefits from, sorry, procurement. The same effect in HNC, that is more a bit of a mix. You do not have passing on of materials and the like. It is often where the rounding is. It is a minor thing. It is not a concern for us in terms of pricing. We are also not losing pricing strength on that front. Sometimes you have a bit of a slightly different mix where you have a rounding. We are also not guiding for further negative pricing on that front for the year.
To your question, the 10 million, no, the 10 million is for overall. Yeast extracts and marine lipids, that's also what we said. Factor in about 10 million a quarter for the carve-out of these businesses. The impact would be roughly half-half, but obviously, it depends a bit on quarter to quarter. Instead of guiding you for the overall million per business, we said, look, it's 10 million overall from a group perspective for the two divestments combined, yeast extracts and marine lipids. It's not a minus 10 only in HNC. Although in Q1, there was a bigger part of that 10 actually in HNC to your point.
Thank you very much.
This concludes the Q&A session. I will now hand back to Mr. Huizing.
Thank you, operator.
Before we finish, let me first hand back to Ralf to make a few closing remarks. Ralf?
Yeah, no, happy to do that. Thanks for that, Dave. Maybe summing up and repeating a bit, but we had a good start of the year with strong organic sales growth and earnings growth. We started Q2 well with the business conditions continuing into April. We are well placed with our portfolio to mitigate the impact of tariffs. We are taking the necessary actions with our suppliers and our customers to mitigate it where possible and, if needed, pass on those effects. With that, I think we have a clear path on 2025 priorities. I want to repeat them. We will drive organic growth through innovations.
At the same time, we will focus on the delivery of a synergy commitment, a 100 million step-up in EBITDA driven by both costs and sales. We will continue to focus on the vitamin improvement program, improving the underlying business performance of the vitamin business that we are divesting. On that front, we stay the course as well. We are confident to sell the business in 2025. We will also complete the tuning actions in 2025 such that we can focus on anchoring what we have got and growing the businesses of the portfolio that we have built. As a last reminder, we continue to execute the share buyback. We are leveraging a strong balance sheet. We will try and finish that as soon as we can. I think it is nicely summarized in the title on this slide. We continue our journey. With that, back to you, Dave.
Okay, thank you, Ralf. Thank you all for attending today's call. With that, we conclude today's webcast. Of course, please do not hesitate to reach out to the investor relations team for any follow-up questions you have. With that, I hand back to the operator.
This concludes today's call. Thank you, everyone, for joining. You may now disconnect.