Good. Well, good afternoon, everyone. It gives me great pleasure to welcome you to Envipco's first Capital Markets Day. My name is Simon Bolton, Group CEO of Envipco, and again, fantastic. We have so many people here in Oslo and also joining online. It'd be my pleasure with the rest of the management team to in the next few hours talk about the company in a bit more detail, talk about the exciting opportunities that we have, and also the journey that we've started and that we continue to see a bright future going forward. The first thing is what gets us out of bed? Why do we do what we do? And it's really making recycling easier for everyone. Why is this good? Why is this important? If we make recycling easier, then people do more of it. Okay? Our customers, typically retailers, they like to use our machines.
Internally, people find the company easier, and obviously, everyone, external stakeholders, understand what we're doing. We are a recycling technology business, and our focus is beverage containers. So making recycling easier for everyone, why is that important? If we do that well, then ultimately, we create a cleaner world for future generations. And that's our vision, and that's what's driving us forward. Why is this important? Well, you can't pick up a newspaper, you know, go online, watch the television without understanding the continual crisis that we have as a world with respect to plastics. And we can play a part in that in addressing beverage containers, plastic, aluminum, and glass. And this is the opportunity to do so. We know we have the solution, the solution that works, the solution that works across different countries. And that is really a deposit return scheme.
So for everyone in the room here, this is second nature. You probably grew up using a deposit return scheme, in Norway, where a small deposit is added when you buy a beverage container, which, when you put that into a return point, you get that back, and by separating those materials at the beginning, it allows that material much more easily to be used in new bottles going forward, and so this creates then an opportunity for the circular economy to really spring into action and be live, and where there's a deposit return scheme, then the recovery is massively different, so I come from the U.K. At the moment, we have kind of curbside recycling, those schemes where different materials are mixed together, 30%-40% of the containers that my family carefully puts in that bag get recovered.
With a deposit return scheme, you ultimately can get to 90% or over 90%. Very important. In Envipco, we automate that system. The products and the services that we deliver help that system run. They help that system run effectively and efficiently through our compaction technology, securely with anti-fraud. We deliver reports and data to all the stakeholders in that system. Ultimately, that means that we recover and reuse a lot of these components and materials and delivering on the targets that nation-states have. You'll see, you know, there's a couple of examples of our products, our smaller products, which Andrew will go through in a little bit more detail in the technology section.
And in terms of where we operate, here's three examples of where we've recently worked in those countries: Malta, Sweden, an existing scheme that we've introduced new bulk feed technology in to increase recycling rates. And, more recently, in Romania. We've been doing this as long as anyone. Over 40 years, Envipco has been focusing on single-use beverage containers. 1980s and 1990s, very much focused in North America, where the business was founded, to help promote and develop those systems in the 10 U.S. states that have legislation. And then more recently, we've pivoted over to Europe, initially in Sweden, and then more as we've spread across Europe, we've used our skills and experience in the U.S. to position ourselves to win in new upcoming markets in Europe. We have a broad product portfolio. That's important.
Major retailers have now had a huge variety of space, not just the big, out-of-town mega stores. They have gas stations. They have small convenience stores. They have mid-size supermarkets. They have situations where they want machines outside, etc., etc. And we have that broad portfolio to satisfy their needs. The other thing we have is we have four manufacturing sites. Photos you saw on the video earlier. Why is this important? There is a huge wave of demand for our products and services coming up. It's gonna be important that we have the capacity and the ability to be able to deliver to those customers. Some of these schemes, as Fons will go through, are gonna kind of go live at a similar time. It's important to be able to respond to that.
And so the U.S., Romania, Germany, and Greece that gives us a highly flexible production capacity up to 30,000 units, similar to what you see on my left-hand side, the Flex and the Compact, and 3,000 of the larger special products. We now have, not just in production, but in technical service and administration, over 500 people. And we, you know, operate in about nearly 20,000 square meters' worth of facilities to be able to deliver those units. But obviously, products don't deliver themselves. And our key element is the people. We've done a great job at recruiting talent, motivating, and retaining talent in the business. And we have clear, a set of clear values that has come from the history of the business: entrepreneurial. It was family-run before. So about commitment, about vision, about performance. We know we need to perform.
We think, hopefully, and hopefully at the end of the presentation, you'll understand the key elements that give us confidence that we can do this, over the years ahead. And always within an environment that shows a high level of trust and respect. That is important to us. And that, those set of values, we feel also differentiate us versus, you know, our competitors and some of the other technology vendors out there. As mentioned, as countries react to legislation, there is gonna be a significant demand for RVMs. This is one way of looking at it. In the last three years, new schemes have covered about a population of about 42 million people. In the next, three or four years, just under 300 million people will be covered by a scheme. In the next five years, that will be over 400 million.
And roughly, the demand for our goods and services is in line with population. Obviously, the more people, the more return points you need to be able to cater for that increased beverage flow. So what does this mean? Well, right now, it's taken 40 or 50 years for this industry to install about 100,000 units. Okay? So quite slow, quite slow and steady development of machines in field. Okay? In the next about five years, for everyone to hit their legislative targets, we'll need another 200,000 units. So the total addressable market will triple in the next five years. And obviously, that creates exciting opportunities for the company. As you saw from an earlier slide, we really, around 2020, 2021, we really pivoted hard to generate an infrastructure, an organization in Europe. You know, we've had success with that.
We put out some long-term targets to help guide our actions. And, you know, and we're updating those. So these are our new targets, which we'll go through for the rest of the presentation. How can we deliver on these, you know, in the next few years ahead? Our focus of this growth and the opportunities we see is around greenfield markets. Okay? So these are countries: UK, Spain, Poland, Portugal that do not have a deposit return scheme at the moment. In those countries, we want 30, more than 30% market share. Gross margin, we had that as a target before, so around 40%. We're committing to that as we drive efficiency in the business and we get the right price for our product and services. And we've added a new target as we develop and, and we slightly mature on this growth journey.
We wanna drive sustained profitability. So we want, in time, to have over 20% EBITDA margins. So they're the targets that will drive the business in the next few years ahead. And in the next couple of hours, you'll hear detail how we're confident, you know, we're gonna achieve those. So what does the next few hours look like? So, after me will be Mikael. He'll go through strategy, what's the legislative environment, that's driving all of this. Then Fons, we'll go through, our commercial processes. What's happening in the markets? How are we gonna try and tackle and achieve this higher than 30% market share? What about brownfield? What are we doing there? We'll have a short break. And then Andrew, will talk us through, technology, products. We've got, again, not easy to get those on a plane and, carry on.
But anyway, we managed to get a couple of products over here. So we'll go through technology. Patrick, go through finance, and then I'll finish off before we have a curated Q&A session. And Markus, Fabian, thanks for helping us with that. And then afterwards, we've got some drinks outside for those who wish to stay. And we're very open to have a chat with you. Good. Sounds good? Audience goes wild in Oslo and says, "Yes, that sounds great, Simon," if in case you missed that online. So without further ado, Mikael.
Thank you, Simon. Good. Let's jump into this. So as Simon mentioned, Envipco has been on a fantastic journey. Over the last few years, we've seen revenues grow significantly. Let's take a step back and see, you know, what are the groundworks? What has driven this? What's the platform that has enabled this? This company is, you know, stemming from the U.S., 40-plus years' history, having a very solid basis, a strong fundament in the North American market, started venturing into Europe in the mid-teens. First, by venturing into the Swedish markets as a brownfield, an established market where Envipco developed technology together with a DMO operator in Sweden to help Sweden increase collection rates. Sweden had had a system in place for a long time but was struggling to get to 90%. Envipco technology has helped Sweden do that over the last decade.
They're now starting to approach 90%. Also, Envipco ventured into Greece, a market that not yet has a DRS in place, DRS in place, a deposit system in place, but that wanted to start increasing collections together with a partner that was a second European market. In the '20s, we've seen fantastic growth driven by the entrance into new deposit markets in Europe, establishing a very strong market share in those markets well north of our targets. The driver is the appearance of new deposit markets. Most deposit markets in Europe were established in the '90s and early 2000s. This whole list of markets. Since the early 2000s, not much happened. One market came about, Lithuania in 2016. As we approached 2020, we saw an increasing number of countries starting to work towards introducing or wanting to introduce deposit schemes.
The list was long. This list, Envipco started to target. By starting to invest, prepare, the company was already listed in Amsterdam, had a secondary listing and secured funding, through the listing in Oslo, started to invest in the organization, started to invest in assembly facilities, putting up, setting up supply chains, etc., in the European markets, starting to approach this market opportunity. Together with that, the company set up targets, announced these targets in 2021, having the ambition of capturing plus 30% of these new greenfield markets, aspiring to grow gross margins up towards 40%. As a result of the expected introduction of DRSs in Europe, saw the potential to increase revenues by 4 to 6x. Envipco has delivered. Hungary has introduced DRS, opened in January 2024.
Envipco has secured a 60% market share in Hungary, with the market now counting more than 4,000 RVMs. We're one of two RVM providers into Hungary, delivering to the operator, the MOL Group, in that market, and primarily supplying a variety of Flex RVMs that you see here to the right, and Optima. Then you have Romania, going live in December, or no, excuse me, November 30th, 2023, 35% market share on a market now counting around 6,000 RVMs. In Romania, we've delivered our full-fledged of products from the Flex to the Modula to the Quantum and everything in between. As Simon mentioned, we have assembly facilities in Romania. We have a big business and sales team in Romania. Now we also have an R&D facility.
Then there's Greece, a market that not yet has DRS, but where Envipco, together with our partner, has been able to deliver a network and set up a network of more than 1,000 RVMs. That's some of what we're delivering. If we look at this across the markets that we're in, Malta, smaller market, Envipco is the only player. Greece, Hungary, 60%, Romania, 35%, Ireland, slow adoption still after the startup a year and a half ago. We still are quite confident that we will continue to increase our share towards our targets. Scotland had a DRS pilot in 2022, 2023, is now aligning with the UK DRS startup in 2027. The commercial case that Envipco had in the Scottish market was very, very strong.
So overall, the company has delivered well north of its 30% plus market share target across these markets where we've entered. Gross margins, solid improvement team coming out of COVID and all the difficult supply chains that most businesses had, pretty solid run, not quite at 40% yet, but on our way. Our opportunities are driven forth by political action. Timing will always be a factor in that. That's factors that are outside our control. If we look at the list of markets that were expected or that had plans on being introduced in 2020 and what has actually happened, there are some differences. Most markets have been delayed somewhat. Some haven't gone live yet. And we also see the appearance of Hungary that was not on our list. That's the market. That's the playing field that Envipco is in. This is part of the game.
What we can control is how we approach these markets when they are ready, and that is what we will continue to do, so we've delivered on these greenfield markets that have come live. In addition, we are positioning selectively in brownfield markets where we see that we have technology that can help these markets, A, increase their collection rates, or B, improve the cost structure of those systems. We've done that in Sweden, as I mentioned. We have 170 Quantums across the country, initially only with a system operator, now also commercial installations with retail stores that have chosen to take out their RVMs, in-store RVMs, and replace that with outdoor solutions. 170 Quantums out of a total pool of 4,400 RVMs in Sweden. Less than 4% of the RVMs capture 15% of the volumes in Sweden. These are highly efficient machines.
Also in the commercial space, there's a customer, retail customer in Sweden that swapped out five RVMs inside the store, initially with one Quantum, added another Quantum, and now has three Quantums, increasing their collection rates dramatically. And of course, as retailers get a handling fee, the payback on these investments had been very, very good. We're copying this Swedish example in the Netherlands now. The Netherlands in 2023 added cans to its DRS, doubling volumes sold under this deposit scheme. The infrastructure was not ready for this. So collection rates dropped off a cliff. Public criticism, official criticism, something had to be done. We saw an opportunity. Envipco sold our first Quantum into the Dutch market in March 2024 and have since had a number of installations.
Now, most recently, also added a preferred supplier agreement with the operator in the Dutch market to be able to help Netherlands increase collection rates. So we've had our greenfield markets. We had our brownfield markets that we've developed, and that has driven this revenue growth. From being a business of 30-35 million EUR, tripled those revenues to more than 100 million EUR. Not quite 4-6x, but there are more markets. And as I mentioned, the timing of introduction of DRS is outside of our control. Our job is to be there when these markets go live. And that is what we've positioned for over the last few years. And that brings us to the next chapter. So we've shown that historically we've seen countries intermittently introduce a DRS. Now there's legislation backing the rollout of DRS across Europe.
So we like to say it's no more about if, it's rather when. First one, EU Packaging and Packaging Waste Regulation, set in force a year ago, mandating 90% collection of all beverage containers across the EU through the use of a deposit system, entire EU. In addition to that, really driving the need for technology is to create the demand side for the material by requiring the industry, the bottlers, to increase their share of recycled content in the production of new containers. 25% of plastic containers put on the market this year needs to be made out of recycled material. That increases to 30% in 2030 and more than doubles to 65% by 2040. This requires a clean material stream. Our equipment, our technology enables that.
There's a population of 265 million people in the EU yet to have a DRS. That's a fantastic opportunity. Then there's the U.K. The day after the EU announced the packaging and packaging waste regulation, keep in mind this is a regulation, so it needs to be followed by every nation. The U.K. also has passed DRS legislation and is moving quickly ahead for the introduction of DRS in October 2027. That's two years away. A national DRS interoperable through the four nations with the same targets, 90% collection targets. This market will also require a lot of automation. We have the PPWR, we have the U.K. DRS, we have a wave of opportunities coming our way in the years ahead. We've been through now, as Simon mentioned, 42 million people in DRS markets being introduced over the last three years.
The top three markets here have already gone live: Romania, Hungary, Ireland. We're still delivering on these markets. We will continue to deliver on these markets, even though we most likely have the majority of deliveries behind us. The next two markets coming up, it's Poland going live from October this year, Portugal going live next spring. And then successively, we're seeing UK coming 2027, Spain, we'll see exactly when, 26, 27 type of time frame. And then we have other markets as well. Greece is planning rollout of a DRS. We believe it's likely to start happening next year. Czech Republic is more of a 2027 type of market opportunity. And then you have Turkey, which also over the next year or two, and they've been working on this for a long time, are preparing to go live as well. These are all key target markets for Envipco.
And as you will hear later, markets where we already are engaging and have been for some time. That's our business model. That's how we work. That's in our DNA. So how can we put numbers on this? Simon put a big number up there, 200,000 RVMs over the next five plus years. We can break it down like this. Poland, Portugal, Spain, it's another 45,000 RVM potential. On top, that's close to 50% growth of what's already out there. Those three markets, UK, another 35,000. So the four markets that are coming up now over the next couple of years, 80,000 units needed. We've established position. We've proven our ability to deliver. And then EU markets outside of these initial markets, another roughly 75,000 units, Turkey, around 35,000 units, and then some peripheral markets around. Those are the big building blocks of the 200,000 unit market opportunity.
At an average selling price of around EUR 20,000 per RVM, that translates into EUR 4 billion+ market opportunity. It's unprecedented. This industry has never seen this type of market opportunity reveal itself, driven forth by regulation. So we're maintaining these ambitious targets in our core markets. Our greenfield markets, we continue to aim for plus 30% market share. We believe we've proven our ability to do it. We believe we have the products. We believe we have the market presence. We have the people, and we have the identity, the backbone to deliver on this. These greenfield markets are going to be the clear driver behind the growth over the next few years.
But in addition to that, we will continue to work selectively on existing markets as well, existing brownfields, as we have been doing in Sweden, as we are in the process of doing in the Netherlands. We've now installed our first units in Austria. We're looking at Slovakia. We just now, Ireland is a deposit market, but we've just introduced the Quantum there as well. And as you've seen, we've also started to introduce the Quantum into North America. A new segment, also processing centers, collection centers, extremely high volumes, where a regular RVM takes in a few hundred thousand containers per year. Our Quantums in the North American market are taking in a million or two per month. Big numbers. We see a great opportunity over time to build on this.
Our brownfield growth strategy will also be a core part of our growth, even though the growth most likely from this area will not be as big as the greenfield area, but it does offer great opportunity. We will be looking for markets that are struggling to get to their target collection rates, often 90%. We will look for markets that are less cost efficient. Maybe they have a lot of manual collections. Maybe they have an old, outdated machine park, or where there are underserved segments, where our technology can be a complement to what they already have. The Compact here is a great example of that as well. Finally, we will be on the outlook for M&A. We will look for complementary technology to what we have. We will be looking for access to markets.
We will be looking potentially for install base into a new market to be a brownfield market. But we will stay true to our core. We are a recycling technology business, and we will continue to be a recycling technology business. We will have a strict risk-reward assessment on any potential target. We know the opportunities, but we also know the risks involved in doing M&A. But M&A is such as Sensi last year, a startup in the Irish market, having developed and introduced the Compact, giving access to a new segment, convenience stores, which you will see makes up a very large share of markets across Europe. That's a fantastic fit for Envipco. Getting access to a great team, great technologies that we may potentially also, over time, can use in our existing products. New ways of thinking that can make our products even more efficient.
A good risk-reward assessment, a great strategic fit for Envipco. We're very happy with getting the Sensi team on board, so Envipco's growth platform is very, very solid, and we have four pillars on which we will continue to develop the company. One, we have existing markets. We have a platform in North America. We have now a platform in Europe. We will continue to deliver that platform, to develop that platform, and to continue to deliver increased market share, hopefully over time. Two, greenfield growth. There is a wave of opportunities coming our way through regulation in the EU, in the United Kingdom, and we see also other markets outside. 200,000 RVMs are needed, a tripling of the market, and 80,000 of those are coming up over the next two, three years as Portugal, Poland, Spain, and UK go live.
Brownfields, we will continue to target markets where our technology adds value, helps meet national targets, makes systems more efficient. And on top of that, of course, have an outlook, have an eye open for other incremental opportunities. So with that, I'm going to leave the word over to Fons, who will take us through our commercial strategy and how we're going to target these markets, how we're going to win our customers, and what other competitive factors we have.
Please. Thank you, Mikael. Thank you very much to raise the bar. That's very good. Welcome, everybody. My name is Fons Buurman. I'm CCO for Europe and Asia. I started with Envipco around five years ago, and I'm based in Amersfoort, the Netherlands. And as Mikael has shown, it's been a great journey the last five years.
Spectacular growth, really hard work with a lot of new teams in the new markets. And I think that laid a very good foundation for us to learn from it and to see how we should approach the next upcoming markets. And that's what I would like to talk a bit about to you today. But before we do that, maybe it's good to have a look at what is a DRS market? How does it work? I think here for the audience in Norway, like Simon said, second nature. So it's a well-known topic, but maybe for other people listening on the webinar, it's not so much. So basically, the DRS system, there are the three main players, which are the government, the beverage producers, and the retailers. So basically, the government lays out the law.
So they define basically what packages should be in the system, which retailers should collect the packages, when should the system start. And also, very importantly, they define who will be the DMO, which is, of course, run by the beverage producers because they have the responsibility to set up the whole DRS system. The DMO is mostly also run together with the retailers because they are the collecting point. So basically, those three stakeholders are very important for us to get engaged with. A good, organized, efficient DRS system is a kind of self-funding because they use the income streams from the materials that they collect, and they also use the unclaimed deposit fee, which is still in the DMO. So if you have around 80% collection rate, that means that about 20% of the deposit is still available to run the system.
Over time, when they reach 90% collection rate, they need to be more efficient so that the producers don't have to pay basically the gap that is left because that's the responsibility of the beverage producers. Although the system is in most countries the same, every country manages to do it a bit differently. So that means that we really have to be engaged with those guys because they think of different materials, different technology requirements, different store formats that need to collect. So that brings us to how we approach new markets. So the main stakeholders, we go in quite early. So we talk to the government to help them support how to set up the system. We talk to the beverage producers and also to the retailers.
Like we've seen, the experience we have in Europe in the last five new markets is really helping, but mainly the legacy we have in the U.S. is much more helping. Next to that, we have a team of experts in our company, which have been in the business for more than 30 years. So we leverage that experience with our recent technology, which is helping the local teams. So what have we been doing in the U.S.? Basically, in 1979, Bruce DeWoolfson invented a can compacting machine. So that was basically the first RVM machine for cans. Later on, in 1982, he founded the company, and that's where we have our roots. Over time, we also started to provide services as an operator. So we also arranged the logistics and the clearing system between all the parties involved.
So next to the technology, we also have the experience in-house to work as a DMO. That experience is very helpful when we go to new markets in Europe. By delivering good, steady quality of machines, but also to deliver very high service levels, because you can imagine the U.S., that's very critical. We've been able to maintain long-term relationships with the main retailers, and we have been able to capture a market share of around 45% in a very stable market. Unlike Europe, where we see now a dramatic growth because of the new regulation. In the U.S., it's much more stable. With over 7,000 machines installed, it's a very steady base. If we look at new countries, so of course, the DRS setup is different in the countries. So we have to be flexible, but also our customers are different.
Even certain stores within the same customer are different, and they require different solutions for collecting the containers. Basically, we always say there's not a one-size-fits-all. Although maybe it looks like a box with a hole in it, if you go deep and you really analyze what is needed, there's much more to it. Basically, we use a kind of graph where we have different elements, and those are typical things that we discuss with the retailer. What's the location of your store? How much storage space do you have? How much staff do you have? What are peak moments in your week to avoid queuing? All those things we add together. We analyze it together with the customer, and then we come basically to the best solution for them. Luckily, we have a very broad portfolio.
So next to all the experience and the knowledge we have, we also have a broad portfolio which we can use to find the best solution for our customers. With the recent added Compact, which you see here, very small machine up to the large bulk feed machine, which is mostly placed outdoors, we can basically cover all the needs of all the customers. So within those seven models we are now running, within each model, we can even modify certain characteristics of the machine. So we can change the bins inside to accommodate mixed containers or separated containers, to have PET in cans. Maybe later on, we can add glass. So these are typical things for customers which are very important because then they are secured for the future. If things change in the DRS, we're able to change with them.
Next to all that flexibility, we also see that it's very important to offer a very strong service package. The machines are of high quality, but they're heavily used. Some of the machines are overused because consumers bring back so many containers. A very good service team is important. A very good help desk is important so that the people can pick up the phone. They get a quick reaction. The machine is up and running again. Because for retailers, it's super annoying that the machine is not working because then they can get complaining customers. If it happens often, the customer doesn't come to your store anymore. They go to somewhere else where the machine is actually working. It's not only a service, it's also a potential risk of losing sales to the customers. Service is important, and also the different financing models.
So in Europe, we see mostly a straight sales model. So sales of the machines and later on a service fee for maybe five, seven, or ten years. We also offer lease models, very much preferred in the U.S., where basically the machine price and the service fee is mixed together in a fixed monthly fee for a period also of five, seven, or longer years. A model that also exists in certain markets, and we also see now some more demand coming in new markets in Europe, is the throughput model. So basically, the customer pays per collected container. So of course, we know exactly how many containers the machine takes. So based on that, we can calculate how much fee they have to pay. So a bit slower ramp-up in the new market because volumes tend to be slow in the beginning. Afterwards, they pick up.
So then also we see our revenue stream go up, but it also means our costs go up because the more the machine takes, the higher the service. So three different business models, very flexible. Sometimes we finance it ourselves. Sometimes we work with third parties in the market. And also because the retailers are mostly our customers, they have very good financing options. So in a lot of cases, we also work with their own preferred bank. So this is basically what we can offer. Then if you look at the new markets, what we've seen in the past is that we identify four basic phases. So the first phase is the DRS initiation phase. So this is the phase where the government is working on the law. It can take a year, but it can also take five or six years.
So it's very hard to judge when the law will be finally approved and when things really start happening. So that's a challenge we always have. When do we step into a market? Mostly the first step is with one or two business development purchases, so relatively small investment, but we have local presence and we have direct feedback from what's happening in the market. So that's the DRS initiation phase. Then when the law is passed, the DMO is appointed, then we get more in the preparation phase. So in the preparation phase, we tend to build out our team, add a few more technical people, start pilot projects with the retailers so they can experience what it is to have a machine in their store, how much time is needed for the store staff, etc. So then we have a slightly bigger team locally.
When the DRS goes live, of course, six months before, it is extremely busy because thousands of machines have to be installed just before they go live. That makes our business so unique because it does not happen very often that there is one date that the nationwide system goes live with technology. It is super stressful. All the machines need to be ready. They need to be online and tested. The store staff need to be trained. We spend a lot of time on that. At that time, we have a full technical team installed who is able to install the machines, but also just before and after they go live, train the store staff and offer a kind of hyper-care service to them. After six, 12 months, you see more stabilizing markets. People are getting used to the machines. The consumers are getting used to it.
The store knows how to operate it. Then it really comes into cleaning habits and those type of things. And then we are more focusing on a service program. Of course, after that, there will be a second and maybe a third wave because you see smaller stores who started manual collection. They see, it's basically taking too much time. So I rather have a machine. So that's why we have the Compact, very affordable machine. It doesn't take up a lot of space. So that's mainly the second and the third wave that we start adding those type of machines. Also, on the other side of the equation is the Quantum. So people with an Optima or another type of machine, they see, hey, I can use much more volume. So let's put a Quantum outside in the parking.
So basically, we can spread out the investment and the revenues over a period of five to seven years, basically. Then Mikael told you about two new markets we were successful in the last couple of years. One of them is Romania. So to give an example, in Romania, of course, we had a production plant. So we were present in an earlier phase, but the actual commercial activities started around 2020, so around three years before the actual go live. So we had heavy involvement with the government, with the municipalities. We started piloting. So we were present. Then when the go live was, we had a modest market share. But because of our good quality and good service, basically, we managed to build up our market share quite rapidly after the go live.
In 2024 and even still this year, 2025, we see a lot of stores that have not chosen a machine before. They choose our technology to have a machine in their stores. Basically, we are one of the few suppliers in Romania which are growing our footprint in 2024 and 2025, giving us about 35% market share. You see, sometimes it can have a long tail after go live. As a system, Romania is performing really well. They are around 80% collection rate. That's a very solid growth, and that's also typical what we see. We also see it in Hungary and in Malta, that the earlier markets in Scandinavia, they took long periods to get up to 80%-85% collection rate. Basically, we expected that those new markets would also take longer, but that's not the case.
Basically, you see in a year or two, they're up to 80% collection rate. So somehow consumers are picking it up much faster than in the earlier countries. So that is something which we take into the new markets to prepare basically all the stakeholders for much higher volumes from the start. They're doing really well, about 80%, but they have to grow up to 90%. So we expect another 2-3 thousand machines to be added to the total market in Romania in the coming years. Hungary has a totally different market. As I said, every country is different. Here, the DMO, so the MOL Group, is the operator. They decided to purchase all the machines for the whole country. So they wrote out a tender.
They invited a few suppliers, and in the end, they chose two suppliers to supply all the machines for the country, and then they define together with the retailers what type of machine they need, so stores over 400 square meters, they need to have a machine. Stores between 200 and 400 square meters, they can choose whether they want to do manual collection or machine collection. We managed to get around 60% market share, so we have spread over the whole country. We have a full team in place in Hungary who's doing the installations and the service, so it's now running a bit more than a year and a half, and they are also already at 80% collection rate, so very high collection rate, so basically, the operator now also takes a pause in installing new machines.
So basically, you want to optimize the system to reduce the cost, to optimize the logistics. And then next year, they start focusing on adding more capacity in the market to reach the 90%. And one of the things they're looking at is also, again, the bulk feed system. So basically, our Quantum. So those two markets gave us a very good experience to jump into the new markets. One of them is Poland. I think Poland is on everybody's radar because it's the largest new market in Europe that goes with the DRS. Again, here, totally different setup. They let the operator market basically to the market. So they said, if you're a beverage producer, you're able to apply to become a DMO. So basically, we saw eight operators in the end. Now it's reduced to six.
So there's now six active DMOs competing with each other in one way or the other in the market. So that complexity also means that things take even longer than they normally take because they have to figure out how to clear the whole system between them. They have to find out. They have to fight for contracts with the retailers. What is the handling fee? So they're competing on handling fee. So it's a very complex system. That's also why we see now more of the commercial opportunity shifting into 2026, whereas earlier we thought it would be more second half, 2025. So you see we're dependent on how the law is structured, how the regulations are being put in place in the market, and about the timing. That's really what's driving the timing of our business. And that's also the big challenge for us.
But again, it's a big market. There's some big international chains, some big national supermarket chains, and also a huge amount of smaller stores which are independent or semi-organized in the different franchise setups. So we're talking to all of them. We have a quite extensive team in Poland, which is engaged with all the retailers, which is engaged with all the operators. So we really try to follow all developments day by day. And I can tell you it's a very dynamic situation. But happy that we were able to announce an LOI earlier this year for one of the major retailers in Poland to deliver machines to thousands of their stores. So we expect deliveries happening first half of next year. In Poland, we specifically expect a long tail because there's so many small stores which typically start manually, and then later on they start using a machine.
Another market, much smaller, but also interesting, is Portugal. This is also an example of how long it can take sometimes because they started back in 2020 already with working on a law, but it took a very long time for them to be ready with the law. So basically, earlier this year, the law was approved. The DMO has been appointed. So now it's going much quicker. The handling fee has been set. The RVM specifications have been published. So they're basically kind of ready to go. And now we expect that they start the DRS go live in spring next year.
Next to the stores above 400 sq m, which is close to around 3,000 stores, and the smaller stores, which is around 2,500 stores, we also see that the operator themselves are looking at accommodating the Horeca channel to be able to give them the ability to also bring back their containers in an easy way. So for that project, they want to install from the start 48 bulk feed systems spread around the country. So we're talking to them about, of course, for our Quantum. One of the major retailers signed an LOI with us, expecting to start delivering Q4 this year to be ready when the system goes live in spring next year. So interesting market. Also, there are a lot of dynamics. We have a local team in place with technicians, a small warehouse. So basically, we're ready to start installing in Portugal.
Then after those two markets, there's another wave of countries, like Mikael explained, the U.K., for instance. Huge market, total different scope. It looks like a very strict planning. They're moving very quickly. A lot of engagement from the retailers. Also, those retailers have been involved in the Scottish setup of the system, so they know what it is. We're talking to the same people as we were talking back then in 2023 for Scotland. So that gives us a good advantage to get going. Start date planned for October 27. So in our business, that's rather quick, especially if you look at the number of machines. So I think that around 35,000 machines need to be installed before go live. That's a big job. So basically, we expect already in 2026 to see some activity in the retail that they're ready for the launch in 2027.
Also here, a lot of small stores, small convenience stores. Again, our Compact fits really well. We have very already now conversations with the retailers to position the Compact and the Flex with them. Could be around 40,000 stores which are in scope for that segment. Last but not least, for today, Spain came as a kind of surprise that they quickly announced end of last year that they are going to launch a DRS in Spain. Like the end of the last year, it was mentioned because they didn't reach their collection target. They said then two years. In two years, the DRS will go live. We know from experience that two years is very optimistic. At this moment, they have now closed the application for DMOs. So three organizations have applied for a license. They will decide early next year on who the DMO will be for Spain.
Mostly after the DMO has been appointed, it takes 18-24 months before the system really can go live. That's the timing we expect. We are setting up our own local team again in Spain. As mentioned before, we look at the timing, what's the right timing. Q4, we start with our own team in Spain. Up to now, we have been working with the stakeholders in Spain via the team we have in Portugal. Simon and I, we have been involved personally as well. Basically, we are already connected with the main stakeholders. The big challenge in Spain is it's the same size, more or less, as Poland in number of people, 40 million, but they have a huge amount of tourists. Around 40 million tourists every year.
So if you look at the number of containers in the market, that's comparable to Germany, which have 80 million people. It's mainly driven by the Horeca. So there's around 50,000 food retail outlets, but they have more than 250,000 Horeca outlets. So that will be a major challenge for Spain. And also that 80% of the population is located in 20% of the country. So the 20% of the rest is in 80% of the country. So those two challenges will again be much different in Spain versus other countries. So therefore, it's important for us to be involved soon so we can start, if needed, even developing new technology, which is basically needed for Spain. I mean, that's also the flexibility we have, as you're seeing that we are able to adjust our offering to the local market needs. So challenging times ahead.
A lot of work to do. If you add it up, four new markets in the coming couple of years with a total addressable market of around 20,000 in the first two years and another 60,000 in the next four years. With all the experience we have, with the experience we have in the U.S., with the legacy in the U.S., I think we are really prepared to capture again 30 plus market share in those new markets. We have a very engaged and super enthusiastic teams locally, which is growing basically weekly. So I think we are in a very good position to move ahead. So with that, this is the first part of the session before the break. So I'd like to invite you for a short coffee break. I think what time should we need to be back? In 20 minutes. In around 20 minutes. Yeah.
So, 2:25, you would be back here in the room. That would be nice. Thank you very much. Okay. Great. Let me do live. It's a video.
Welcome back. Short break, but I hope everybody got some coffee and refreshments. Next up, we're going to have our CTO, Andrew Keene, take us through our technology map, where we come from, get a better understanding of our best. So, word's yours, Andrew.
Okay. Thank you so much. And again, thank you all for being here. And, thank you for the very detailed questions as well in the breakout sessions already. So, I can tell it's gonna be fantastic after this presentation. So yeah, so my name's Andrew Keene. I'm the Chief Technology Officer for Envipco. And, my background is 35 years of product design. So, I come from the automotive industry, designing engine cooling systems. I come from the defense industry, designing intercontinental ballistic missile defense systems. I come from, where you have consumer products out in the field with Procter & Gamble, Gillette blades and razors. For anybody who has a Mach 3 at home, I'd love to hear about your experiences with that product. And, here at Envipco, I've been for five years, and it's been a great journey.
You know, as we've gone through transitions from one market to the next and looking at taking the history of the company to the next level, it's been exciting to help grow this group and really build the engineering team, which has been fantastic. So, I'd like to start off with a little known fact about Envipco. So, Envipco is the inventor of the DRS system for disposable beverage containers. So, this is one-way containers that are taken back. Europe has the affinity for the refillable, recyclable, reusable container. In the U.S., it's been a focus from the beginning on a disposable container. And so, one-way containers was the original focus of the company from the very beginning. And I'd like to build on that actually by telling the origin story of Envipco.
Fons highlighted a little with the patent from 1979 right on cue. This is 1976. Imagine a U.S. Marine Corps soldier coming back from his military service, coming back to his home state of Virginia and finding the beaches a mess. He had aluminum beer cans all over the beach, and he said, "This is an embarrassment. I wanna do something about this." He told his friends, "I think if I were to design a machine that would dispense a penny for every aluminum can put in, we could clean up these beaches. I think they could be spotless." That's exactly what he did. For six years, and the original patent, applied for 1979, granted in 1982, for the Can Eater, quite a marketing name, and the Can Redeemer in terms of what we had for original products with Envipco.
And we have the original patents over here. So, I think it's interesting, Simon, as you noted, making recycling easier. The original vision for the company was just that, was how do I make it easier for people to do the right thing and, and keep the environment clean while recycling the materials. So this is 1982, and shortly thereafter, we had DRS laws filed in New York, Connecticut, and Massachusetts to support this type of an infrastructure, this type of system, but this was the origin of at least from the U.S. side of what we had for beverage container deposit and return. Okay. So today, we no longer dispense pennies. You'll be happy to know it's no longer a copper penny. You can take your iPhone and get Apple Pay. You can take your credit card. You can tap.
You can get credit card reimbursement, Visa, MasterCard, whatever you want there. You can have Tikkie. You can have Revolut. You can have Venmo, PayPal, any form of electronic. You can also have the industry favorite printed paper ticket to bring back to the retail store. Retailers love the foot traffic coming through, spending more money in the store. So, times have moved on. Today, we are 47 engineers, so 47 design engineers. We have 16 support engineers, and we are a global organization. We have four technology centers spread across Europe and the United States. And our design process starts with our sales and marketing team. They bring us the voice of the customer, the needs and desires of the customer. What is each market needing specifically? And then we go off and design our products and technology to match those needs and desires.
We take the design, we conceptualize, we prototype, we brainstorm, we test, we test, we test, we market test, we pilot test in the field. Generally, these machines have had over a million containers run through them before they ever get out to the market and released. So, highly validated designs, high-quality designs. We release to manufacturing. So, our manufacturing partners bring the machines to life with our engineering specifications. They build the machines and they distribute them, bring them out to the field service team, field service and support, supports our installations, making sure that each customer gets the machine they need, they want. It gets up and running. It runs smoothly. It runs well from day one. They also provide feedback to our sales team and our engineering team on the machine's performance in the field. So, we hear about opportunities for improvement. We hear about reliability.
We hear about features that customers are requesting, and so it's a fantastic loop that allows us to continuously improve the machines and the technologies as we move forward. Okay. Our engineering team is a full-stack development team, so we have every engineering discipline from mechanical engineering all the way to machine learning and AI. We do everything with these machines. All the development is in-house. We're able to develop a customized solution that is highly cost-effective, highly reliable, and also customizable to what the consumer's needs, so if we hear retailers are looking for specific features, we're able to do that, which is a great, great capability to have. Our core technologies focus on compaction, recognition, customer UI experience. We have our data, IT fleet operations, and then automation.
So, this is really important because as we think about how we play in this market and our competitors, these are points of differentiation for Envipco. This is what we do really well. We focus on these elements and we lead the industry as we go forward. Our product lineup. So, we go from very small, as you can see here, we have our Compact machine, which is the smallest machine, primarily targeted towards convenience stores, small-format stores where you don't have a lot of space and you wanna set up a machine. You can tuck it in the corner. People put it underneath windows so you're not blocking too much, but you're also not taking up retail floor space. Moving up to Flex, we have a Flex machine here, Ultra, Optima, HDS, Modula, and Quantum. Modula is a backroom system. So, this is a system that can be extended.
It can be extended. It's shown here with three modules. You can extend this up to 12 modules. And so, you can have PET, you can have glass, you can have one-way glass, you can have refillable glass, you can have aluminum, you can add other materials as well. So, this is flexible and designed for the future with a flat belt system that we can, we can do more with as we move forward. And then Quantum, you saw and heard about bulk feed technology. Hopefully, many of you have used a bulk feed machine. It's a great experience from a customer standpoint. You don't have to stand and put containers in one at a time, getting your hands dirty, spending half an hour. You can take your bag, dump it in, hit the button, and walk away. It's a great experience.
We have stories from our customers in Sweden where people drive 10 kilometers, 15 kilometers to go specifically to this machine so they don't have to waste half of their day returning their containers, and then they happen to go into the store and spend some money, so it works for both, both sides, and it's, it's an absolutely fantastic product, and as you also saw in some of the slides, it's also now enjoying some great success in the United States with New York and soon to be California as well, so a really, really great story with Quantum, and yeah, so this allows us really to support the needs of any customer, even outdoor.
So, as you look at like public parks and public bus stations in Malta, we did quite a bit with like local locations that might be in the middle of a neighborhood and you've got a small piece of grass in a, you know, in the middle of a parking area. The city can put this down so you don't even have to have a retailer attached, which is really important as we go forward and talk about getting to the 90% level for the countries of Europe. So, we'll add on a little bit more there. But Quantum's designed bulk feed. It's designed for outdoor installations. We have this product in the Arctic Circle, very, very far up and very cold. We have this product in the heat in Athens in Greece. And, so it's able to survive that huge temperature swing and exist in these environments.
It's a fantastic product for kind of the next level of DRS compaction. So, our first core technology area, Envipco very early became a leader in the compaction area, probably because of the origin with disposable containers, having to crush those containers and bring them back in a very compact format. Our technology's been highly copied by our competitors. It's always a sign that you're doing something right. We continue to be a leader in compaction technology. It's important for a couple of reasons. Obviously, when you compact material, it's lowering your trucking costs. You can fit more containers in a truck. You don't have to have as much diesel and fleet, but also total cost of ownership. So, we specifically designed these compactors to last longer, to be more reliable, and that gives the customer a better experience.
You don't have to replace it every year, every six months. You can go, you know, for a one and a half million more containers before you need to think about replacing a compactor. So, durability is, is a big point of differentiation. But it's, it's very important for this industry that you have good compaction technology, and we are absolutely a leader there. Okay. Continuous improvement. So, Flex, you can see over here to the side is a great case study for, continuous improvement. So, introduced in 2015, we've continuously improved Flex by adding additional features and functions to the product, but we've also addressed the cost. So, we've brought the cost on the product down by 20% as we've moved across this, continuous improvement cycle, and we've increased the performance by 2x. So, we're using lean techniques. We're using agile techniques.
We're using Six Sigma techniques, and we're improving the product performance by focusing on reliability metrics and measuring and specifically focusing on the areas where we want to improve, and we add features to improve the performance of the machine. So, in addition to focusing on new features and new products, we've also got a very strong focus on the core and making sure we've got strong products that have a low cost of ownership and are also able to maximize our earnings as a company. Very important. Technology is a key enabler. So, as an investment community, this might be the most important slide in my section, other than the you know, cool technology stuff. 90% is the most important number on this slide. So, for every country in Europe to reach 90%, they need to get beyond the traditional DRS.
So, the traditional DRS is you go into a supermarket, you put the machines in, everybody brings their recycling back. That will get you to 80%. I think 87% was what Simon showed on a slide. To get to 90%, you've gotta go beyond that. So, now you need to get into small convenience stores. You need to get into local markets. You need to get outdoors. You need to be able to go into public parks. You need to be able to go into other settings where traditional RVM systems don't apply and don't work. And this is where Envipco's focused. So, we have solutions at the small end with Compact that can go into convenience and small end stores. And with Quantum, as you saw, we have large-format machines that can go outdoors. This is critical to enable these countries to reach their targets.
Fons, I think, is experiencing this now in the commercial end with some of these customers who wanna get to the next level, and we have the products to offer them. It's a fantastic combination of technology and the commercial opportunity. Okay. Our three key priorities in our technology strategy are, number one, focusing on bulk feed. The experience of being able to take your bag of containers and dump them is clear. As a consumer, that's what you want. You're gonna go out of your way to find that experience, and we know that. That's where we're focused from an innovation development standpoint. Number two, the convenience store segment. It's been undertreated for a long time. I think our commercial team did an outstanding job identifying merger and acquisition opportunity with Sensi in the Compact machine.
It's a fantastic product that fills that gap right now very nicely. Great acquisition there. And number three, continuous improvement. So, making sure that the machines are reliable and that we do lower the cost so we are able to increase our earnings as we go along. So, that's our key three key points for our technology strategy. And this photograph, I think, is a week and a half old. So, this is straight out of Ireland, the first installation of Quantum in an outdoor setting. So, this retailer didn't have to give up any of their parking lot. They didn't have to give up any retail space in their store. And they get a machine that can, you know, process over a million containers a week if you wanna go. I mean, it's an unbelievable machine.
People drive from all around to get in and use this machine to process their containers quickly, and so it's gonna enable Ireland. Ireland is struggling to reach their 80% and 90%, and so this will help them to reach that. I'm sure there'll be more orders to follow for this machine based on this. So Quantum S. We're proud to announce the launch of Quantum S, our latest product. This is an S for small. We basically have taken the Quantum and shrunk its footprint down. We have the performance of Quantum with the high-speed processing of containers, up to a hundred containers a minute, the fastest RVM that we know of on the market. It's just a great product. People that have this product want more. They would like to purchase more because of the throughput and the performance.
but we had specific asks in the market coming back from our commercial team saying our customers want a smaller product. They wanna be able to go into a space that would only take two car parks. So, the picture on the right, it might be a little confusing, but you can see the competition footprint for a bulk feed system in white, six car parks. Okay. And then you can see our Quantum normal in the light green. So, that's Quantum XL, three car parks. So, half the size of the competition. So, we're doing well there. And then we've reduced that even further. So, we've reduced it down to two car park spaces. So, now if you're, you know, a retailer who wants to buy this machine and install it, all you have to give up is two parking lot spaces.
If you don't wanna modify anything, and you can drop it, run the electric, and it's ready to go. Or, as you saw in Ireland, you can make a nice off-to-the-side sitting area, which is very nice. But, it's a very economical solution for retailers that don't wanna give up any retail space in their store and don't wanna give up all their parking lot as well for a huge machine. So, there's a lot of interest for this. We were specifically asked about this for California. And so, there's a lot of opportunity, and a lot of retailer interest in the product. Okay. And in summary, so, for us, as you can see from the very beginning, innovation's our lifeblood. So, creating new products that make people's life better. So, that improve the recycling experience for people, make it easier for people to recycle.
And of course, you need technology to do that, you know. I think somebody did say that it's a box with a hole. Yes, that's true. When you look at it, I can assure you there's enough technology in that box to fly you to the moon and back, so rest assured, there's a lot of technology involved in this industry, a global organization, so that platform you described of having the U.S. and Europe as stable platforms to be able to build on, it's so important for us to be able to develop products in the market for the market and be close to the consumption to really understand what's happening, and we're able to do that with our engineering team today, leading the product range, so yeah, absolutely.
To really address the needs of all the different consumers we have in all these different countries, there's a need to have a very broad product range and also have the ability to customize that product range. So, I'd say one thing that's unique about Envipco is that we are able to listen to the customer and make changes to the product. I know some of our competitors are unwilling to do some of that. And Envipco has been very flexible, consulting with the customer, understanding their needs, and then developing solutions that are specific to address what they're looking for. And continuous improvement, it's extremely important.
It's not the glory and glamour of developing new products, necessarily, but it's so important from a core business standpoint to be able to have a reliable product that is low cost and is very efficient from an earnings perspective. New market segments. And so, as we go forward and say, look, the future is bulk feed and the future is to be able to get to the 90%, to be able to go outdoors and in small stores, that's where we're pushing. The mid-range of the products is very well understood. And, you know, it's very well addressed, frankly. But the ends of the spectrum are really where we're playing from a standpoint of developing new technologies. And that's really about addressing our customers' needs.
Making sure that these countries and markets are able to meet their targets of 90% to help them get there is really what we're here for. That's what I have from a technology standpoint, and I'll look forward to questions after. I think I'll hand over to Patrick, our CFO. Yep.
Thank you. All right. I hope we still have everybody here for the best segment here, right? Now, all jokes aside, I think we heard some great presentation already. Before I get into some of the finance, right, it's this all impacts the financials, right, and the finance segment and how do we get ready for the next phase? Maybe quickly to reflect a little bit on and some of the things already have been highlighted here, in the previous slides, right?
But where do we come from since five years ago? A lot happened, right? We're definitely not at the same place than we were five years ago. A lot of growth top line, for sure. A lot of focus went on the top line. But in the meantime, we also almost more than 200% grew in our employee base, right? We doubled our factories. We added a lot of additional ERP platforms along the line with legal entities opening, right? So that created a lot of extra activity, that we grew in many aspects from that standpoint. So, what does that mean for finance? And maybe before I get into that, my name, Patrick Gierman, CFO. I joined Envipco, what is it, about six plus months ago, beginning the year, about 25 years experience in finance.
Most of my time, international experience at production companies, service organizations, always highly innovative products, which I enjoy, and great to be here. I would say that the past six, seven months have been very insightful. Learned a lot, and great to work with the team here. But one of the key things for me is, right, is how do we get finance ready for the next phase? A lot of growth machine, a lot of growth that needs to happen. So, how do we bring that foundation in place? How do we strengthen that, and how do we move forward? A few things here, right? And for me, being a finance person, what I said, a lot of activity in organization, in the end comes down to finance, right? Everything we do has at some point a financial impact.
So, we need to, right? We will be looking strongly at our processes. How do we further standardize and harmonize across our production platform, service organizations, and how do we help the teams over there? How do we think about our ERP platform? What I said, a lot of different systems. So, we already started the project some time ago to start harmonizing that. How do we create that consistency? How do we drive visibility across the organization, right? And how do we help control and manage our performance? And then we did the third element, really, the, the people, right? So, a lot of growth, it's hard to recruit. So, how do we get the next phase for the finance team? How do we reposition? What do we do central? What do we do decentral, right?
So, and how can we kind of empower the team to really help the rest of the organization, right? So, take out the manual work and how can we really business partner with the rest of the organization? That's gonna be key if you want to manage the growth ahead of us. On the right side, a little bit of an area of some of the team, how we think about structure. We'll not go into a little detail, but I think for me, key is what can we do central and what do we need to have local available? Then, if you think about further financials and already got some questions during the break, right? What is impacting our revenue, right? It's not simple.
We sell a machine, the market opens up, we sell five, 10,000 machines. Now, it's a combination, right? So, timing is critical for us, also from a planning standpoint. We see that markets sometimes open a little bit later, a little bit sooner. So, timing is very critical when the DRS system goes live. Difference between soft and hard launches, right? So, depends on how do we phase in. So, that's really market-driven. We can think about customers. How do customers think about their solution? Our Fons spoke about how can we help the customer, right? So, some want to have a sale with a service contract. Others want to have a throughput contract, right? Or maybe leasing, right? They all have their own dynamics.
It means that even if a system goes live, you might not have immediately all the revenue, right, of the full machine sales in your pocket. It might come in over time. Though recurring revenue is not bad neither, but it definitely changes a bit the profile. And for sure, we got competition, right? We target of 30% market share. For my stand, I'd like to see more, but right, but if you get that, right, that competition is in play, right? It's, we have seen the outlook. It's a huge market, right? And very interesting. So, we will need to work through our share there. But what do we control? Gross margins, already one of the key targets for Envipco over the last years. How do we improve it, right? How do we get to that 40%?
There's a lot of elements, right, that we control. Think about production, right? Productivity. How do we scale, right? We got a new factory in Romania. How can we help that to scale up, drive productivity, be efficient, right? So that will drive, that will really improve our volume together with our supply chain team. How do we get our kind of benefits over there, be efficient, work with vendors? Technology, right? Andrew already mentioned continuous improvement, getting new products out. How can we make products cheaper, right? So that's gonna be a critical element as well to continue to focus on this and to get better. And fourth, definitely our installed base, right? How can we get better on our service organization, drive there, right? For sure, you will not have immediately service, a lot of service revenue after installation, right?
But how can we over the five, seven, 10-plus years of service revenue, right, plus renewals, how we can get in place? So that's gonna be key drivers for us if you think about gross margin improvements. Another thing that we can control, but where we already spent quite something on is on our operating expenses, right? We heard we need to invest a lot upfront. Markets come up, right? There's a lot of pre-work, right? Think about Poland and Portugal. We need to invest a lot. About 8%-10% of our OpEx goes into these new markets, right? So there are expenses without corresponding revenue. Revenue and income will come later, right? You can see that a lot of the investment goes into our employee base.
Think about fixed temp, but that's gonna be today, but also going forward and big investment, right? For sure, production and the teams have been set up now, so we can use that skill for services that might be more to come, but that's a big driver for us on the operational side, but this is something we can control, right? So this is gonna be very key for us for the foundation that we already built, but how are we further building on that and to get better also from a finance standpoint, and really what is key is, right, the moment we have this foundation, we really can leverage that going forward, right? So that leverage and using that foundation is gonna help us further grow and stabilize.
Going then to kind of summarizing a little bit that P&L side, right? So if you think about profitability, EBITDA target, I think, Mikael mentioned it, Simon as well, 20% plus, in the future. How do we get there? For sure, revenue is gonna be a huge lever, right? Getting the markets open up, being there, able to sell, support our customers, right, to get the machines in place. That's gonna be for sure a hell of a driver. Combined with what I mentioned, how do we improve our gross profit, right? Find those levers, supply chain improvements, do that continuously, right? Get better working on our installed base. That's gonna be an important factor, and then for sure, our OpEx. Our teams already invested a lot.
So we get to really to the point, right, that we can really start capitalizing on those investments, on that structure. For sure, still some things to improve, right? What I said, especially on the finance side, and other elements, to get better, to get stronger, but that's gonna be really our baseline for the growth going forward, then if we move over to cash and working capital, definitely for us and very important aspect, something we closely monitor on an, I would say, daily basis, getting the markets and where we are, right? There's a lot of investment in working capital, right? We want to be ready for the market, having the product ready, working closely with the production teams, but timing is critical, so how we can see that markets can be starting a little bit later, so how do we manage it?
So that's where our working capital is closely monitored, and we will continue to do that going forward. It's really to make sure how do we balance that delivery capacity with the demand, right? When the demand comes, are we ready? How do we work with our vendors? How do we make sure that we're not missing the ball there? Right? So both inventory and our vendors is a critical element. Collection side, for sure, customers. I think we've got a very strong customer base. For sure, we're partly dependent on the solutions and the possibilities we have with our customers, constructively. The good thing is credit risk is fairly limited for us. We have a strong customer base. So, the focus is heavily there on the working capital, right?
So that's an important piece for us. What did we do for sure, right? And many have seen that the press release, also to support this working capital, we got into a new finance arrangement with ABN AMRO recently, right, to support us really on this working capital and get that flexibility in place to balance between getting ready for the market and when the market opens up. Another area for investments besides OpEx, what I said, is our capital expenditures, about 8% of our revenue on average over the last few years. Expect to kind of slowly continue with that. I would say key elements in there is really our one side is the technology with Andrew, right? The new technology that we develop, that's part of our investments.
For sure, we had our production facilities in the past, right, where a lot of our investments went into as well. And the third base is really the those machines that we lease or via throughput, right, that are installed at customer sites. So the RVMs at customer locations in different countries is also part of our CapEx that we need to take care of. The thing is, right, a lot of these things will also not always immediately generate revenue. Think about technology, can be longer development before it starts paying off. So we have a mix a little bit in there on how that plays out. Then we get to the final item is more overall on our capital strategy. What I said, we have a different funding requirements, definitely different by the growth, market expansions. Right?
There's a lot of medium-term opportunities, right? And for sure, the different contractual, think about leasing, throughput, contract situation, right, where we need funding for. Now, what I said, ABN has been great in helping us over the last few months getting new facility in place. It has been instrumental gives us a lot of flexibility, both short-term and also the medium-term. So great to have them on board. For sure, we're listed, as well. And then in addition, right, we will always, depending on the needs in the future, probably optimizing how we look further at our needs. But right now, I think we are in a good place to be. With that, I hand it over to Simon.
Okay, Patrick, thanks very much. Very good. So I've just got a few summary slides now, and then we will, we'll go into Q&A. By the way, there is a chat option for those online. So please do submit your questions on chat, and we can get to those in the room and also those from people online. Great. Well, hopefully these few hours have given you an opportunity for us to do a bit of a deeper dive into Envipco. In summary, unprecedented market opportunity, 50 years for 100,000 units installed to support the existing deposit return schemes, 200,000 units and the systems and services around those needed to support the deposit return schemes coming up. Of those, for those 200,000, 80,000 in the next few years of four markets, UK, Spain, Poland, and Portugal, which we are very actively pursuing.
Hopefully these last couple of hours have given some insight into both the excitement we have about this market opportunity, but also some proof points that we've managed to pivot now and build on our very good position in North America with positions now in Europe. So we've been able to capture that strong number two position, and we've also used some of the technology that Andrew has talked about to enter brownfield markets. That's not our focus. Our focus is these new greenfield opportunities coming up, but brownfield helping existing deposit return schemes achieve their 90% or over 90% is still a really great opportunity for us. And particularly with the very small product we have, Compact, and the very large product we have in Quantum, we've got really the technology footprint to make a difference in those existing markets. And we've made investments.
We've been very busy the last few years. We've had great success in the market, but also we've made the foundation investments already. They've been done. We have now these four operating facilities. We have a strong organization including a fully formed management team. We have proof points and systems that we can use in new markets. We don't have to learn this stuff again. We are continuously improving. We have to do that. We know that. But we've now had scale, expansion into some of these new European markets. We're ready for the next one. We're ready for the next one. And that's important. And really, you know, as we go through and as we increase our installed base, it's important to note that recurring revenue will increase. So we've talked to quite a lot about service.
Customers know they need to service our machines. As you can imagine, they're used by everyone. They're used sometimes very significantly, you know, 1 million containers a month. Okay? There is beer. There is Coca-Cola. There is Pepsi. There is weird fruit juices. Okay? It's stuck in a metal box of 40 degrees Celsius, somewhere in Athens. It will get sticky and it'll get mucky. So people know they need to service these products. And so if we have a 6x increase in installed base, then there's, you know, maybe a 5 x- 7x increase in recurring revenue. So as we go through this next period of growth, as our installed base increases, that recurring revenue increases in addition to additional units coming from these new markets. So very exciting indeed. You know, that's, that's our final slides. Thank you for your attention. Thank you for your interest.
And now we're gonna rearrange the furniture a little bit, and then we're gonna open it up for Q&A. And we have a couple of excellent moderators in Markus and also Fabian to help us. So I think, Mikael, we're ready to go.
Good. Okay. Thank you. So if I can invite the presenters to come up. So very good. So we don't look like an aging, boy band. We're gonna get some chairs, I think. So, not, not for you, of course. Okay. Great. Okay. Cheers, Mikael. Thank you. Okay. Maybe slightly over here for the light. That's it. Great. Okay. All right.
We'll let the audience also ask some questions. So feel free to raise your hand. I'll just kick it off here. You're targeting +30% market share. Tomra was targeting 50%. That leaves very little share for other smaller competitors. Do you see any changes in strategy in new markets now, where smaller competitors are doing some, let's say, discounting on machine sales to grab market share? We know you need an installed, a dense installed base to have profitable off the market. Any changes to the strategy you see there? Yeah.
Yeah, I think, especially in the larger markets, you see more newcomers to the market. I think if you look at the main retailers, they tend to choose still the main suppliers of RVMs, which have been around for quite some years. I think we follow the new competition very closely to see what they're doing. Hence the acquisition of Sensi, which is now a Compact. So I think we also look at it from an opportunity point of view.
Yes. Looking at your margin target there of more than 20% EBITDA margin, maybe you can elaborate a bit on how that will phase, and what gives you confidence as these markets mature as a number two player, 30% market share. What gives you confidence in that long-term scalability and profitability of your business?
Patrick.
Yeah. No, yeah, I think it's what I mentioned, right? It's for sure it will not be there at day one. It will phase out. It will be a phased approach, right? But if you really look at our production facilities, right, that we already set up, with the volume, the scale, that's really gonna be driving a lot of productivity and improvement, right? Continuous improvement. We're gonna capitalize on our installed base. That's gonna be a significant driver, that we said, with recurring revenue, spare parts, service revenue. Right? And that, that's gonna be kind of a baseline also going forward together with kind of stabilizing our OpEx portfolio. That, that's gonna also improve the EBITDA margins.
And just a follow-up, is there a necessary level of market share that you think you need to achieve to be profitable, or could it be reached with 10% in some markets and 50% in others?
I think y ou could say it largely depends on the size of the market. To have a good dispersion of products, a larger market naturally can give you a larger volume, and you can leverage on your service organization to a larger extent. We have an average defined 30% as a market on an average market that gives us that necessary scale. So I think that's overall a good target.
Thank you. Let's go ahead. Should we repeat that? I'll just repeat that. So the question is whether if it goes lowballing it's market share target and if there's upside to it.
Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I can answer that. So I think first of all we think it's real. So and by the way and I remind the whole team about this there is an important plus in the target. So it's 30% plus and we shouldn't forget that. So look there's gonna be opportunities. I think in some markets we do better than 30%. Okay? I think there's gonna be other markets. It's gonna be tough. It's gonna be really tough because of different reasons.
So I think, you know, to the point that was made earlier, I think 30% plus at that scale gives us, you know, really good operational density, gives us really good volume both on products and also on services to have a really good sustainable, you know, business model. Now, you know, as Fons keeps telling me, you don't put 30% in my targets. Okay? We have much higher than that. You know, we effectively, we go for every big customer in every market we choose to go into, they're our potential customer. But we know we're realistic. We're not gonna win everything. We'd like to. In Malta, we did. But we think that's a fair and that's a good sustainable target, which is why we've maintained that in this kind of next growth phase of the business. Yeah. Yeah. Any follow-up questions?
Fons, do you wanna take that? Yeah.
So the question is on Turkey. Thank you.
Go on, Fons. You wanna take Turkey?
Yeah. I can take Turkey.
Great.
So Turkey, as I explained, every market is different, and Turkey is the example. They approach the DRS from a totally new angle. So I think, with our experienced team, we spent quite some time on Turkey trying to leverage with all the stakeholders, bringing our expertise. But I mean, they do the things they want to do it. So we just follow the flow. We are actively engaged with a local partner, because we believe Turkey is a typical market where we need a local partner who knows, you know, how things roll in Turkey.
So, I think we found a very good combination. So we are gonna be more active in the coming period, and then we'll just have to see how it develops. Like you said, it's a huge market, 80 million people, large geographically, spread. But again, the approach is so different that we have to be flexible, adapt to how they approach it, and then just support them with our knowledge and mainly technology because that's gonna be a key driver there. And then because it's such a big market, it's important to be aligned also with the operations in our organization to be ready to supply a large number of machines because it could take a long time, but it could also go really rapidly all of a sudden. So that's the challenging part in Turkey, but it makes it really interesting.
Right. Sorry. There was a second part, Markus, I think. Second part, as you were saying, Markus, what about California? So, California, and by the way, you know, for those here in Oslo, you know, Bob will make himself available at the end and during the break. But in summary, California is a deposit state at the moment. I think everyone knows that one of the 10 states is California. Obviously, on paper, huge potential, huge potential. But it's a dysfunctional system at the moment. So everyone who goes to California, you know, if you go there, you pay your deposit, but good luck getting the deposit back. Really, very difficult. So huge retained deposits becoming a political issue. It's a back-to-depot model. So versus back-to-retail, it's back-to-depot model.
However, you know, we see some movement that this is, you know, people are starting to think about the scheme and trying to think of ways to move it from a dysfunctional to a functional system. It's slow. But we hopefully, certainly in the medium term, hopefully see some movement. And, you know, it's interesting that during this period, we have introduced the Quantum product. You know, that is potentially a fantastic depot product, high volume outside by design. It's working really well, in upstate New York. So we think there's gonna be opportunities, for Quantum in California. Now, we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves. It's gonna be a slow grind there, but certainly we'd like to present that technology, to the California industry and work with them to, you know, try and fix their system.
From a technology standpoint, they're currently working on a depot system. As was stated, it's a manned depot system. So there's a person standing there taking the material back. And so the case for Quantum just makes sense. It's automation. You can leave it, no attendant necessary. People can bring their containers, get the money, really dramatically lowering the costs for the operators in California. So there's a lot of interest right now in that machine coming from California. Great.
Yeah. Hi, Tom. It's SpareBank 1 Markets actually now. Thanks for a great presentation. I was just wondering in terms of the EBITDA margin target of 20%, is that assuming kind of the mix you have today between direct sales, leases, throughput models, et cetera, or is it based on kind of 100% direct sales? Or how should we interpret it? Is it 'cause now you're 8% CapEx to sales, meaning should we expect kind of a long-term EBIT margin of 12% or yeah?
Patrick, do you wanna go?
No, it's indeed based on mix, right? So it's not only sales. It's indeed the combination with lease, throughput, but also straight-out sales with or without service. So yeah, that's based on the combination. So yeah. And it's like the 20-plus% is achievable with that.
Yeah. Okay. But CapEx to maintain at that 8% level, is that correct? Or should we assume it to come a bit down into the CapEx?
Oh, okay. The CapEx, definitely, right? At the moment we grow, the CapEx ratio will go down, right? So, that there's definitely now, definitely recently, but also with the production facilities and those things, we invest a lot in that as well. So logically that will not necessarily repeat every year or every five years. But yeah, definitely with top-line growth and improvement, that will definitely go down as a percentage.
And one question on maybe the U.K. and Spain, they're huge markets and of course very uncertainty on timeline, as you've said, we're a couple of years ahead. But would you expect those two markets to be sales there before the official launch kind of through 2026 too? Yeah.
Maybe take U.K. and Spain. Yeah.
Yeah, definitely. Especially U.K. because such a large country. I think also the retailers, since they have been involved in the Scottish preparation, they are advanced versus other retailers and other markets which have not had that experience. So they understand much better what it takes to be prepared, not only from technology point of view, but also of their own organization because they need to arrange all the logistics and they need to train the staff and everything. So I think especially in the U.K., I think we expect to see one year in advance of go live date already some real commercial activity. Spain, we have to see. They have to, in that sense, catch up to the U.K. So we are working with all the retailers to explain them what to expect, et cetera.
So I think especially after the DMO will be appointed early next year, then it will go much faster after that. But also there, like I said, 40 million people, so smaller than the U.K., but much more containers to be collected. So I think in that sense, it's gonna be the same size of opportunity. And basically also they're gonna need the same timing to get prepared.
I think maybe just to build on that, Fons, certainly what we get from the U.K. DMO is they are really committed to this October 2027 deadline. So that's the DMO, it's the beverage industry, it's all the retailers. So, you know, a couple of the team talked about hard and soft launches.
You know, we've seen recently more soft launches because really politically don't wanna change the date in the law, but wanna give people, you know, four months, six months to get ready. You know, kind of the U.K. government, and I think you could argue the industry has said, well, you've had that. You know, you've had those years when we were doing Scotland, when we were thinking about this. The minister in 2018 talked about deposit schemes in the U.K. So we feel that the U.K. is gonna be kind of, kind of more of a hard launch, which means they are going to need, to Fons' point, you know, really detailed commercial processes to select their vendors and then to allow them with this huge network that's needed to set everything up.
Thank you.
I'll follow up on, on Thomas' question there on the, on the margin. Of course, this is a midterm, long-term EBITDA margin target of plus 20%. But of course your business model or your business activities changes depending on the markets and how many markets go live and so on. And if I use the case study of Tomra from the early 2000s when Germany went live, they've invested heavily in their OpEx space as you have. OpEx is up plus 30% in 2023, 2024, seems to stabilize more now. Sales doubled, EBIT margins went from 13%-23%. It seems that machine rollouts are not tied with a lot of incremental OpEx. So in this phase now, when we're going towards 2027 and your mix will be heavily tilted towards machine sales, is there upside to that margin target? Should we expect an extraordinary high margin in the coming years?
It says plus 20%.
Fair enough. Yeah.
Okay. Thank you. So then looking a bit back to Poland, obviously it's being pushed out a bit. Can you elaborate a bit on how the market has turned out compared to how you expected? And are there still some major retailers that are undecided? Obviously we have seen some announced orders for several vendors. Or are there still some retailers that are undecided? Or is it more about the long tail for Envipco where you've typically been strong in Poland?
Yes. Thank you. I can take that. So indeed, like I explained, the complexity in Poland makes timing more difficult to plan at this moment. I think when we are a couple of months down the road from now, it will be more clear.
I think if you look at the total landscape of the opportunity, I think there's around maybe 5% of the total opportunity which has now been signed off on with retailers. That means that the majority of the long tail included then is still available. So that's about 90%-95% of the opportunity is still there. I think there's still the two main Polish retailers, with the majority of the stores. Also, there's another one which has a lot of smaller stores. They're not decided yet how they want to approach the DRS because their stores are basically exempt from the DRS system, but they also don't want to lose out on the customers. So they're looking for a good way to give that service to the customers. And we're talking to those guys, obviously, with our Compact machine.
So timing, it's, I think it will be shifting more towards 2026, but really the first half of 2026.
Thank you. Yeah. You said that the market shares are varying a lot between the different geographies. Can you say something about what type of characteristics about the market gives you a good market share? And how are those characteristics in the market for Poland? Yeah. So the question is, what type of market suits Envipco and what will determine your market share?
Yeah. I can get a go at it.
Yeah. Go on. I will chip in.
Yeah. So it really depends on the, I think on the market size and which players are around. I think if you take again Poland, large market, a lot of entrepreneurial companies around. So you see quite some new startups in the market.
And so they come with new inventions, kind of mostly in the lower price range of machines. They try to enter the market because they see the opportunity. I think because of that, I mean, we keep a very close eye on them. We respond to them. So I think we will still be able to reach them around 30% market share. But it's a bit more unsure. If you look at other markets where we don't see that amount of new competition coming up, it's the playing field is more clear. So there we can ease, more easy to achieve a higher market share than 30%. And then there's markets like Malta or Hungary, for instance, where the operator buys all the machines. If they choose one or two, if you're in, it's large. If you're out, it's zero.
So, for the moment, I think the new markets don't tend to go that direction. So it's more retail-driven. So more the retailers that invest in the machinery.
Maybe just to add to that, I think if we look at Romania and the example that Fons said, we, you know, have some capability and also we have a desire to hit this tail. So it's not a matter of saying, right, we've got three or four big retailers, great, we'll sell out their 3,000 units, right, we're done, we're going home. We are happy to stay in that market and really work through that tail. And I think the example of Romania is really good where we've done that, and of course, you know, typically, smaller retailers, you know, need the product quick.
So especially in Romania, if somebody phones up on a kind of Monday morning, hey, I used to take containers back manually, it's driving me crazy, I need a machine, no problem, we can deliver one, get it working. You know, you need, you need a machine Monday morning, you'll be recycling by, you know, Friday afternoon wherever you are in the country. And that's really powerful. And typically people are prepared to pay for that. Simple, quick. So typically the price of margins on those sort of deals are slightly better. So I think, I, you know, I, I think we are flexible enough to adapt to everything, but certainly where you have that, you know, that broad market, then we see some strengths of our organization to be able to penetrate that. Good question.
And I have just a short question on the Quantum XL. Can you say something about the price point relative to the standard Quantum? And also how can you make it smaller because there's no functionality of being there or it's all about the same? So the question is about the Quantum S and the price point compared with the normal units. And technically how did you manage to get it smaller?
Right. Okay. Maybe Andrew, you wanna take shrinking it into a box and I'll take the price.
I'll take the technology side.
Yes, for sure.
So Quantum S, yes. Reducing the footprint of Quantum, without reducing the performance. Essentially we're taking away from storage. So there's huge storage capacity designed to Quantum. It's originally designed to be able to be serviced by truck pickup. And not all operations want to do truck pickups. Some wanna do bags and pull out and, you know, store the bags in a shed out back, that sort of thing. So reducing the storage is an easy solution to reduce the size and actually have a better fit with what the customer needs. So it's kind of a win-win. On the pricing side, I'll hand that over to you.
Yeah. I think pricing, it's not really a pricing playbook. This is more an opportunity. So customers typically these situations, customers really want the Quantum and, you know, are prepared to pay for the higher price point of a Quantum, but they just can't fit it in for some reason or another. So offering Quantum S gives them that opportunity to put in a Quantum in the space that they have available.
Okay. Your gross margins are trending upwards, but obviously fluctuates with volumes we've seen over the recent quarters. You're almost at your target level now, but you still maintain your target of around 40%, not above or plus 40%. What does that imply in terms of pricing?
You wanna take that, Patrick?
Yeah. So just to, you're highlighting the 40% margin target, right? And the question was to what extent that relates to pricing?
No, I mean, gross margins vary with volumes. You're almost at your target already and volumes are gonna increase drastically. Why do you maintain your margin target at 40% and what does that imply in terms of pricing? If volumes go up and your margin should follow, that would imply that your pricing is going down.
Yeah, I think pricing might be more on the front side, but for sure, pricing does have an impact, right? The moment we get to the larger markets in competition, pricing is a factor that you need to consider, right? So if you go to large retailers, price points might be different than maybe smaller stores, right? So that definitely plays in. And I think Fons can maybe elaborate on that as well. So that plays and for sure on our end is then also finding the right countermeasures to improve on the other side, right? And we need to cost control and cost manage our supply chain. So but yeah, pricing does impact, especially when you get to the larger markets, the larger retailers. And what I mentioned earlier, right, competition, so there are more players in the market.
Yeah. I can just underline that. Yeah. It's exactly the story.
And just sorry, maybe just to add. So we again, we're not low balling this and we're not saying 40% and we stop. I think you're gonna see some fluctuation 'cause you've got different dimensions, as also Patrick pointed out. We have volume, you know, we have type of market, we have share of services, how that kind of feeds into our overall group P&L. So all of these things, you know, we feel that, you know, a good solid 40%, you know, is a really good foundation for us to then make sustainable, you know, EBIT, good EBITDA margins.
Yes. And your competitors are also investing in production. So how confident are you or consider that particularly the very small and very large that's going forward? The question is that your competitors are also investing in the areas that you are strong. How confident are you in maintaining that lead?
It's always a good sign to see the competition following you and innovating in the same spaces where you have the leadership position. So it's nice to see them coming after us in the bulk feed and the large and then also on the small side. But to maintain the competitive advantage, I think the most critical link is to stay close with our commercial partners and understand, you know, what drives that purchase intent. You know, why do these customers want these products? Quantum S is a great example of that.
We heard we love the technology, we love the speed, but we need it smaller. We need to fit into two, two car park spaces. And so that drove that. And in terms of the core technology, we're also innovating on that front. And so, you know, there's while they're, it's fun to watch them chase you, you also wanna make sure that you're training to go faster. And so we're doing both sides in terms of that.
So. And on the M&A purchase, will that be to strengthen the mid-size segments?
We're not limiting that to any, I think, part of the segments. It's going to be complementary in terms of, to repeat the question, our M&A strategy. We are opportunistic in looking for technologies that can be complementary throughout our product portfolio, as Sensi does offer technologies where we believe we can, you know, incorporate some of that into our existing products, improving performance, potentially taking down costs over time. So that's kind of the approach we look at. There's no specific area that we're looking for.
Yes. Hi. Well done on the presentation, right? Just two questions. One is on the market and one more on the financials. So on the market, you said that legislation is a key driver of the revenues. And so my question is, what, I mean, do you see any particular lobbying that is playing against you and against the implementation of the DRS in some countries and how this is playing against you? That's my first question.
The second question, more on financials. You mentioned that there is part of the revenues that is coming from lease, RVMs. What, how much does that represent, in terms of percentage of the revenues and how do you see this evolving in the near future?
So the question was, first, is there any active lobbying against the DRS schemes and introduction? And the second was, what was it again?
Leasing revenue share.
Yeah. Lease and share going forward of lease revenue.
Great. Can I take the first one? Sure. So I think the key thing is, from an EU point of view, this packaging and packaging waste is a regulation.
So where a directive needed secondary legislation to put it into force in a national context, the regulation, if you're in the EU, you need to follow all the regulations. So it's a very strong legislative push and, you know, mimicked to a certain extent for the EU, for the UK deposit legislation. So I think that the legislative framework is very strong. The second thing is I think you see a lot of the stakeholders, which maybe traditionally were uncertain about deposit schemes, realizing that a well-run deposit return scheme is the most cost-effective way of achieving improved recovery targets for beverage containers and making sure they have a clean source of material coming back in that they can reuse in bottles, particularly the beverage industry. So there's a lot of strong support.
No doubt there are some stakeholders where that's more difficult, maybe, you know, municipalities or so forth, and different countries are working ways to incorporate, you know, those stakeholders into the scheme, very much like they're doing in Portugal. In Portugal, by involving or giving the option for municipalities to be involved in the scheme. So I think the drive to DRS and the involvement of lots of stakeholders, I think it's very positive. So certainly, clearly it's legislative processes. So timing, as we've said, changes, but it's definitely not, you know, is this gonna happen? It's more when this is gonna happen. And then maybe on the second point.
Yeah. And as we showed, I mean, our U.S. business has largely been built up over time through leasing. Our European customers tend to favor to purchase. So the leasing revenues we have is largely from our US business, our program services, roughly one third or so of that program services revenues from the North American business is, comes from leasing. Thank you.
And, I'll just have another question on, on legislation and, and the risk there. Of course, there is a third DRS wave with France, Italy. They need to reach 80% by end of 2026. When do you expect visibility on that and, and actions? And, and second part of that question is, if you don't see any more markets in Europe, what are your main priorities? Is it to go into Germany with sort of brownfield investments or, or what other adjacent opportunities are you seeing beyond the markets that we can now so clearly see?
Great. Maybe I'll start and then I'll overachieve for the rest of the world. Yeah, look, I think, you know, maybe reference the last answer. I mean, this is a regulation, right? This is a regulation. If you're in the EU, you need to achieve this target. Some countries, no doubt, you know, you mentioned France, maybe you mentioned Italy, maybe get there in a slightly different way. Maybe the format of the scheme has higher components and maybe refillables, which we can also now with our broad product portfolio, tackle. So we think it's gonna get there. Now we think, is it gonna be all countries achieving all the targets by 2029? Maybe not. There's gonna be probably a, you know, there'll be a zone where different countries will be slightly different timing, but we think there's a very, very strong push there.
And then we talked about the U.S. So if we look at markets outside of Europe, you know, the U.S., you know, we've talked about California. There's other markets on the Northeast where we have probably refreshed deposit legislation. We saw good growth in Connecticut, New York, and Massachusetts. If that also happens, they will see more growth, maybe new states. And then that's just the existing regions. We're in Europe and North America and maybe France, that's not the whole world, is it?
No. There's some other continents left. So basically, Asia, there we see some activity starting now in Singapore and Hong Kong is doing some pilots. So I think they have not the kind of regulation that we have in Europe. So it will be a different type of approach. But we see interest growing in those markets also to go into a kind of DRS system.
So we're following that, at the moment still kind of from a distance, but we are connected. So we stay close to it. And when it's needed, like we showed, we start investing also in local resources there. Africa is another big continent. A lot of litter to be cleaned up. So the interest is mainly there. But of course, the structure and the way countries are organized and the cost structure makes it more difficult to set up a DRS system in the short term. But also there, it will definitely happen. South America is another region. We see more activity in some of these South American countries, with some smaller countries starting with the DRS.
So I think next to Europe, and even France and Italy, you know, in a sense, they have to do something, probably they'll wait as long as they can, but in the end, they have to do something. But then there's this South America and Africa and Asia. So really this southern hemisphere is really there.
So if I understand correctly, you're a pure play RVM company. That's your strategy. You have seen peers of you sort of diversify. Yeah. But you are a pure play into the DRS.
Yeah. Maybe I can answer that. Yeah. We're a recycling technology business. Yeah. I mean, at the moment, that is pure, pure, pure play beverage containers. Now, Andy's, you know, would say, "Hey, Simon, what's in the box can recognize other stuff. What's in the box can compact other stuff.
What's in the box when interacting with the public can take back other materials." So who knows in the long term, you know, maybe that's something that we think about. But right now we see so much opportunities that hopefully we've presented and articulated, you know, this afternoon that this is what we're looking for. And if we broaden from that, it will always be around technology. You know, we are not gonna open recycling plants. That's not our gig. We have the skills, we have the focus to continue to be a technology business. And we see a massive, massive opportunity in beverage containers in the long term.
Thank you. And that concludes our Q&A session. Thanks for the questions and thanks for the answer from the management team.
Brilliant. Okay. So once again, thank you very much, everyone. Thanks for everyone online, everyone to be here in Oslo. We, those who are here in person, we invite you, we have some drinks, opportunity to network afterwards. Thanks very much. This has been, for us, a delight to host and run through our first Capital Markets Day. We look forward to obviously seeing you again wherever you are, and thanks very much.