We're about to start with our presentation of the half year results. You will hear first our CEO, Mr. Ton Hill followed by our CFO, Mr. Carvin van Bukkel. I would like to state that there is no opportunity for the listeners via the audio webcast to ask questions.
There's visitors here in Amsterdam, of course, for you. There is, after the presentation, the opportunity to ask questions. Please state your name and the company you are representing before you ask your questions as a gesture for those who are online listening to this audio webcast. For now, the floor is yours, Mr. Tonnieler.
Thank you, Martijn. Dear ladies and gentlemen, a very warm welcome to the presentation of the twenty twenty five Half Year Results for Royal Highlands. We will start the presentation with highlights of some of our successful construction projects and maintenance activities. And you will also see some images from the Hermann's Family Festival. Six weeks ago, we welcomed our colleagues, the partners in children, to our material site in Rosmarle to introduce Jens to our construction activities and give concrete examples of our strategic agenda for the future.
With more than 6,000 visitors attending that day, it was a great success. And many young people were inspired to consider working in the construction sector again. And it is also a great example of what we're working at Hammels and Thales, being a listed company on the stock exchange while continuing to be loyal to our roots as a family business. And it is this cultural combination we are truly proud of. We will begin this meeting as usual with safety.
Step by step, we are making progress to make construction sector a safer place to work, acknowledging that a serious accident can happen at any time, which continues to make us feel uncomfortable. When we look at the current safety performance, we see slight improvements. So it seems the path we have taken is the right one. The number of accidents resulting in absenteeism is decreasing, and the declining of the total recordable incident rate is encouraging. In the first six months of the year, there were no serious accidents.
However, there were nine accidents in the medium category. And the number of minor accidents is still too high, and we need to reduce it further. We want to ensure that our colleagues continue to report all kind of incidents. Also, when in their opinion, they are minor ones. In addition, we need to encourage them to report practices.
As that said, a good example. In the last few months, we have placed extra focus on near misses. These are situations that could have resulted in grave injuries. We have discussed these situations widely in the organization to become more proactive on safety and to learn from them and make business operations even safer. Recently, we were awarded the State and Safety Award for our commitment to safely laying cables and pipes into the ground.
This award is an acknowledgment that our effort to work more safely has been recognized and appreciated by our customers. And in addition, we have still continued to engage in discussions with customers to make work situations safer, Especially when working on and around the road in infrastructure, still in use, safety remains a serious point of concern. Too often, our road workers encounter road users who ignore the red crosses on signs closing down a lane or road users who drive past road works at excessively and dangerously high speeds. I only want to say one thing to these road users. Please think about the partners and the children of our road workers as well.
Now to the financial performance of Highmans. I can say that we performed strongly as a company in the first six months. All segments made a positive contribution to our financial performance, and Heinlein as a total performed with a strategic brand width. The revenue grew by €100,000,000 in the first half year to over €1,300,000,000 and this makes our outlook moving to a turnover of around €2,700,000,000 for the entire year 2025 achievable. The underlying EBITDA margin continues to improve, and we now expect an underlying EBITDA margin for 2025 full year to be circa 9% versus the previous guidance of at least 8%.
So we are now able to upwardly adjust the profitability outlook based on our strong order book of €3,000,000,000 which shows increasing quality. And by quality, we mean profitability. As previously mentioned, the demand in the construction sector for the coming years continues to grow in all the segments we are working in. For connecting, this is a result of the energy transition, renovation of road infrastructure and raising and fortifying of the dikes. In addition, we see constant growth in our technical service activities in working.
Also, the demand for the construction of larger nonresidential building is increasing. We are asked more and more by our clients to make nonresidential buildings based on our knowledge, expertise and approach. Additionally, in the coming years, further investments in buildings and facilities, both new and revamping, will also likely come from the Ministry of Defense. We see this demand as a new opportunity to continue growing. This also applies to infrastructure.
But for that, it is essential that additional budgets become available to further strengthen our road infrastructure. A vital road infrastructure is the backbone of our society and economy. The maintenance backlog of our roadwork, bridges and fiatrics is significant and nowadays is bigger than the available budgets. If we want to prevent The Netherlands from getting stuck, a good infrastructure is a must. In the recent years, the political arena has done little to structurally help inhabitants of The Netherlands solve the housing challenge.
Although the growth in home sales by hymens may be growing, it's seriously hampered by a multitude of factors such as the lack of hard suburban planning capacity, the slowing granting of permits and the never ending story of the ongoing nitrogen discussion, which delays construction of houses even though emissions during the construction phase are fairly limited. We see that the demand of suburban housing is significantly higher, therefore, in the city apartments. Therefore, it's essential that we add suburban planning capacity in adding to inner city planning capacity. Despite what I just mentioned, we sold sixteen thirty four homes in the first half year twenty twenty five, roughly 50 homes more than last year. But given how many people are looking for a home in The Netherlands, it's such a shame that we cannot collectively move quicker.
The housing crisis is a serious public issue in the society. At the same time, policy and government regulations are counterproductive. Take for example, changes in the rental market which have driven investors away over the last year. And almost discourage social housing corporations for investing when freezing social rent levels. The perception that the government programs TOR will completely transform the housing market and make living cheaper is, in my view, a misconception.
Housing will only become cheaper if we increase the supply and facilitate modular construction or industrial production. This means that the constant change of rules and ambitions made by local governments must stop. I foresee that measures such as lowering ceilings and doors by 10 centimeters or other arbitrary construction measures will not lead to meaningful lower construction costs. In fact, it leads to a lower quality of living and does not contribute to solving the housing shortage nor the affordability challenge. We need consistent and decisive government policies and choices to structurally resolve this housing crisis.
We certainly do support the simplification of the regulations as described in STORE. Stop discussing and allow us to start building what we can build, from small to large projects and in all segments, social, middle and higher segment. It is a simple fact of supply and demand. The more you build, the more affordable it becomes and creates a moving carousel in the existing housing market, which will also free up affordable existing homes for starters. We have the potential to speed up production, partly because of our timber frame factory.
So we call upon and challenge all to embrace this opportunity and eliminate the barriers. My advice remains once again, build what you can build and proceed rapidly with modular or industrial production. So that's what I want to say of the housing market for now. Two years ago, Hainan successfully acquired the real estate and construction company Van Wanrej, a business that has continued to perform well. According to the agreement made two years ago, it is now time to replace their family name.
Given the unique product and process of Von Braun Roy, we have decided to preserve the character of this company with a new name. This company will continue to position itself as a separate label in the market under the new name, WON. As to our strategic agenda, a lot more is mentioned in your press release. Allow me to highlight a few points from our strategic pillar team, which concerns our employees. We believe that people make the difference at Highmont.
We know that every employee makes unique and valuable contribution. We continue to grow in terms of employees. For example, 200 extra new technical service employees in the first half year. Also retaining our colleagues at Hermos is crucial, where the earlier mentioned Hermos Family Festival was contributed greatly to that. We are committed to employing status holders.
And therefore, we will start a training program for them in September in collaboration with the Carnegie Mellon Main College. Also, we signed a covenant with the Ministry of Defense, where we emphasized that shared employment can contribute to the valuable deployment of reservists for the safety of The Netherlands. We can share and gain valuable expertise. In addition, the collaboration will strengthen both organizations. And I would now like to give the floor to our CFO, Gavin Verbuchel, for further explanation of the performance per business segment. Garfin?
Thank you, Tom. As Tom already mentioned, we look back satisfactory on the first half of twenty twenty five. Our projects and contracts are predictable and in control, and we have no material loss making projects at Highmans. We continue to see our margin over volume strategy reflected in increasing profitability across all three business segments. The underlying EBITDA margin rose by 100 basis points to 8.5%, which is in the upper half of the strategic bandwidth of 7% to 9% targeted for 2027.
Net profit is nearly 60% higher than the previous year, amounting to €59,000,000 Although we see ample opportunities for revenue growth, with demand exceeding supply in all three business segments, we remain focused on our margin over volume strategy. Our cash position developed roughly in line with expectations, ending at €40,000,000 of net debt. It's worth repeating that this year we switched to a fully cash dividend and increased the payout to 50%. This changes the Highmont's cash pattern throughout the year with most of its free cash flow generation now expected in the second half of the We anticipate that cash development in the '5 will at least match the net profit to be realized in that period. Our solvency ratio remains solid at 32%, slightly higher than a year ago.
It's encouraging to see that following the acquisition of Van Wenroy, the return on capital employed, ROCE, stands at a strong level of over 24% at the end of H1. Then the segments. Let's start with Living. The three projects shown from left to right. Successfully relocated 20 Heimanns I homes in Weldhoven to a new temporary location within two days.
This illustrates our proposition in flexible and circular housing concepts, a scalable mall that anticipates the growing need for flexible housing stock. The middle photo is from Kathenbrecht in Rotterdam. Helmut is developing Duskheimia here, a striking residential building with 118 diverse apartments in various sizes, layouts and price ranges, including affordable ownership. With views of the water and the historic cruise ship SSR, project responds to the demand for urban living. A school and daycare center are also being built in this complex.
Finally, a project by Wohne, previously van Wan Roy. The Kuhnestekisen Utrecht. From One Roy has shown what is possible when a dream vision becomes reality. 84 energy neutral homes in art deco style, realized with a focus on affordability, sustainability, climate adaptation, and nature inclusivity. By combining unique architecture per block with urban density and smart collaboration within the chain, we have delivered a high quality neighborhood with long term value.
Living performed as expected with revenues slightly above last year. And home sales, Tom already mentioned it, increased by about 50 homes to sixteen thirty four in the first half of twenty twenty five. The number of homes sold to consumers remained the same. Revenue in living rose from EUR $484,000,000 to $493,000,000. Underlying EBITDA increased to EUR 49,000,000, resulting in a margin of 9.9%.
The order book currently stands at EUR 900,000,000. The trend that urban housing development lags behind suburban development remains unchanged. We see much more demand for suburban homes, partly because people want to stay in their own social environment. The order book has declined by 18% compared to H1 twenty twenty four, primarily due to the long lead times associated with urban residential developments, which therefore continues to make up the majority of the order book. This was already the case in the second half of 'twenty four, resulting in a relatively stable order book June compared to the end of last year.
Over the past six months, the number of land positions for future housing developments increased by about 1,000 net, further expanding our pipeline. Then three projects from working. First, the University Medical Center in Amsterdam, where Heimas renovated three care towers, whilst the hospital remained operational 20 fourseven. Thanks to modular techniques, disruption was minimized, safety improved and construction time shortened. This project highlights our expertise in complex health care challenges and delivered efficiency and predictability.
In the middle, the temporary accommodation for the Ministry of General Affairs on Bausauldhaute Zurich in The Hague, which we recently completed. The completion followed an intensive renovation period. This former national monument was converted to house the Ministry of General Affairs, which temporarily had to relocate due to the Binnhof renovation. Moreover, we are also one of the parties currently renovating the Binnhof. Finally, on the right, Eindhoven Airport.
Highmans is currently building a new terminal here using smart construction methods aimed at minimizing disruption to air traffic and the surrounding area. Thanks to a phased approach and intensive coordination, the work is progressing smoothly. This project underscores our expertise in critical infrastructure and our reliability as a partner through efficiency, predictability and careful environmental management. Working grew by nearly 10% in the first half of twenty twenty five, mainly due to a further increase in recurring business. Revenue reached EUR $232,000,000, up from EUR $3.00 4 in H1 twenty twenty four.
The underlying EBITDA margin improved by 90 basis points to 8.1%. The order book grew further as expected, totaling EUR 1,100,000,000.0. The outlook for 'twenty six and 'twenty seven is also positive, with market demand exceeding supply. This demand is partly driven by the major tasks facing the Ministry of Defense to increase The Netherlands' resilience. Finally, three projects from connecting.
On May 15, the strategic partnership between Amsterdam Airport Schiphol and Highmans as main contractor for airport maintenance was extended until mid-twenty twenty eight. Since 2019, we have managed infrastructure work such as runway maintenance sustainably using recycled materials and electric equipment. Our main contract for technical services, part of working, for maintenance in Terminals 1 And 2 of Schiphol has also been extended by three years. In the middle is the 380,000 volt high voltage station in Massbracht, for which Highmans recently received the final contract. This involves renewing and expanding the station to ensure Limburg's future power supply.
Construction worth EUR 194,000,000 has already started and will be completed in 'twenty nine. Finally, on the right, the Lauers Meerdijk flood protection project. This work for the Nordozelves Water Board is part of the National Flood Protection Programme as the dike no longer meets current safety standards. The work, which began two years ago, includes both strengthening the dike as well as nurture, development and restoration. Now the figures for connecting.
Here also, revenue increased by over 11% from $452,000,000 to $5.00 €2,000,000 in H1 'twenty five. This growth was primarily achieved in the Energy Market segment. Recurring business activities within Connecting also grew strongly. Profitability furthermore improved. Underlying EBITDA rose from EUR 30,000,000 to EUR 37,000,000 in H1 twenty twenty five.
And more importantly, the underlying EBITDA margin increased by 80 basis points to 7.4%. The order book is well filled at approximately EUR 1,100,000,000.0. The key here remains to selectively take on work that matches our competencies and executional capacity. And now I would like to hand over back to Tom for the outlook.
Thanks, Carwin. Despite the economic and political uncertainty we all face today, Heinz is on track to achieve its goals for this year and can today give an upwardly adjusted outlook. Our turnover, as earlier indicated, will move in the direction of around $2700000000.07500000000.0 with an increased underlying EBITDA margin of circa 9% instead of the previously indicated outlook of at least 8%. Handels will continue to focus on its known market segments and product market combinations. We will carefully consider and select which projects we will participate in, weighing the risk reward profile as well as our execution capacity.
This has driven our strong performance and financial track record in recent years and lays the foundation for the future. Now we have once again entered a period of a caretaker cabinet where decisions are made with the handbrake on and important decisions will be postponed for at least another year. This is disappointing and bad news for the Dutch economy and especially for many home seekers. Finally, as an entrepreneur, I express the hope that politicians will finally dare to make clear choices after the elections and will implement consistent policy so The Netherlands, its inhabitants, and its companies will know where they stand in order to build our beautiful country further again. Thank you.
You, Tom Hillen and Graven van Bukel. There's now time for some questions. I'd like to start at this side. Please state your name and the company you're representing.
Thank you. Martin Hendrieffer, ABN AMRO. ABN AMRO Auto officially. My first question, when we talk about the EBITDA margin, close to 9% in 2025. That's already quite close to your long term 2027 strategic target.
And you also mentioned the high quality of your order book, which is meant to be profitable level of the order book. So would it be fair to assume that we can expect a Capital Markets Day, an updated strategy and targets as well somewhere in 2026, one year earlier? That's question one.
Shall I answer? Yes? Okay. Well, of course, we also have argued about it. And we consider a Capital Markets Day in the first half of twenty twenty six, but we haven't decided yet that I say this.
What will be the decision?
Well, we will argue about it. Okay. We will see in the coming months what we are doing, but it's in our mind.
Also because we need to make sure that we have enough new news to share other than only new guidance versus the conversation we are having.
Got it. Well, that relates to my another question that I have. So when you announced the Vamanderoi acquisition and in the strategy update as well, you mentioned 7% to 9% is based on the current setup. If we want to go beyond 9%, we would need more standardization, we would need more industrialization. And I understand that you've already been trialing some of those methodologies and standardization principles in the organization.
So can you tell us, can you give us an update on where you stand with those trials? How far are you, let's say, on a score of one to 10? And what should we when should we expect the benefits of those effects?
So basically, I think we are now in a piloting phase. So what are we doing, for example? We are automating the asphalt laying train. So how can we I don't know what the English word is for walls, but how can we make the walls operate without any operator inside? We are looking at if you look at buildings, what they call skits.
Skits are if you take a ceiling of a building away, they have a lot of piping equipment in there. And currently, our mechanics are basically building it on the spot. We're now moving it off-site. So basically, you move the whole skid frame into a building, you put it on the ceiling, and you can continue from there. That's all currently work in progress.
We are looking at how can we three d design based on different overlays whole suburbs or whole area developments. So these are all things that show initial green shoots. But to answer your question, they first need to really materialize. So I can't put a date on it yet. But we are really working on that pillar.
How can we actually do twice as much with half the people? Because simply we are in an area where demand is far outweighed in supply. That's also what we indicated. That will not change anytime soon. But we do face an aging workforce.
So simply, it's a necessity that we move in that direction.
And as of the timing of the implementation of measures like this, that would be probably more than 2027, 2028?
Before we really have it up and running to a scale where probably the question behind your question is when do I see it in the EBITDA margins? Yes. For example.
Okay. Two more. The second one is more financial.
And I ask this question almost every six months. So at year end, you will have a solid net cash position. There's the remark about the order book and the quality of the order book. There's strong demand, order intake. It's all looking fine.
All signs are in green despite the political situation. So that also means EBITDA is going to be solid. Free cash flow is going to be solid. What are your thoughts currently about adding another tool to the toolbox in terms of capital allocation, meaning share buybacks?
The same question. We'll get the same answer.
Same answer.
So we still stick to our current capital allocation strategy where we prefer to invest that money in industrialization and M and A. When we would amass a certain amount of cash that doesn't befit a construction company, at some point, there could be SBBs. But I don't think, in all honesty, Martijn, will be in the cards anytime soon.
That's clear. And then a final question on connecting. I assume that in order to get to a higher level, even beyond the 9%, primarily, the benefits need to come or the improvement needs to come in connecting. So there's other effects as well, but the majority in my book is coming from connecting. And correct me if I'm wrong, but can you actually expand further?
Because if I if you look at what you said, energy network related work grew by more than 50%. Given that tight labor market, can you actually grow beyond that?
So let me first answer your hypothesis. So we believe that the margin expansion should come from all three areas. So we don't think it should only come for connecting. I do feel if you look at a bit at the end of the day, given the equipment outlay of connecting, there is still some headroom to grow. Let's put it this way.
So connecting should grow, but I would expect the same holds for working and living. That to decide. To your point, how can you grow is how, in the end, the growth has to come from some form of modularization, industrialization, as Tom alluded to. Because if you don't get it up and running, then basically you are restricted at some point about the people you have in the company.
Exactly.
So that's why we are so much working and we have all kinds of projects going live. Where we look at how can we actually break that one on one relationship between a colleague and a euro of turnover.
Thanks.
Afternoon. Teitur, Ostella ING. Yes, I'd like to discuss the defense contracts. And although they're probably secret, so you cannot probably pinpoint exactly what it is. I'd like to hear more about, let's say, the relationship you have with the Ministry of Defense.
What the long term outlook is? Why is Heimann selected? And are you a preferred supplier? A bit more detail about that. And also then, if possible, the potential future impact of these kind of contracts.
Well, we are not the only party who is in the discussion with the Ministry of Defense, but we are one of the parties. And we are looking for that, and there's a possibility that we can get more work from that all in the infrastructure and working side and in the infrastructure side. So it is on both sides. And yes, we are good in connection with the ministry and the people there. So that's one to say.
What is meaningful for the working flow for the coming years? Well, I can't say at this moment. Opportunities that I say that.
Maybe to Biltijs, the demand from the Ministry of Defense is such that they probably need multiple construction companies simply to get it all done. So I don't think it will be the case where they will select one or two to do it all. I think we need or they will need all the bigger construction companies to chip in to get the total demand realized.
Okay. And the connection with that you're providing Reza Vista? Or how should
No, it's a separate one. Separate? There's nothing to do with some other demand in the Ministry of Defense.
Okay. That's clear. Yes. Then on one of your capital allocation spearheads, the M and A. So can you give us again an update on what kind of areas you're looking at, what kind of companies and how potential negotiations or price levels are at the moment?
You would not be surprised, Taj, that we're not going to expand on that topic in a great deal of depth. I think it's fair to say that we continue to be interested in what we call developing construction companies like Van Wan Roy. We're actively looking at them, and that will probably continue. But if there's more news down that line, we will come back to you.
And in other areas, let's say, niche players in infra or in nonresidential?
Could very well be. Now that we have the acquisition loan of a one way rebate, we're having cash on the bank. Again, we can look at other opportunities as well. So we pursue an active M and A agenda.
And do you expect, let's say, any effects from the recent consolidation in the market?
I think it's too early to tell. And I think also we should, at the end, define our own strategy. So we are looking at the right acquisitions to add on to Himans to make Himans a stronger company.
Yes. And I'm referring, of course, to Volker vessels and the Postgres. I also count, let's say, the potential competitors are still about 10 if you include some of the foreign companies. But it would be helpful for you if there would be, let's say, another two or three of these mergers. And if you're yourself not participating, it would be beneficial for the tender environment.
Not sure this is, at that level, a market that benefits from consolidation. I see it more from the midsized companies that probably be absorbed by the bigger ones. I'm not sure if you create two or three big construction blocks in The Netherlands, that would necessarily be better. Because there comes a point where scale might no longer pay off.
Okay. Thank you.
Tim Hillers from Kepler Cheuvreux. First one would be about the political situation. You have been very vocal about the unpleasant situation that's been ongoing for a while now and uncertainty. Nevertheless, despite uncertainty that's been around for a while, you Yes, managed to
three years or something.
Still you managed to show a very impressive performance. So the question is, if the situation improves dramatically, which, of course, is a bit unrealistic, but nevertheless, what would that mean for Himans? Because you already had that impressive growth, margin expansion, things are going well. Yes, what would be what would happen if the political situation improves?
Well, it can be better. We have only built last year 70,000 houses or 74,000 houses. So I think when the government has more consistency and politicians will make a clear focus what we want to do in the housing market, by example, I think there will be a grow when it is more modular or industrial production. You can do 90,000, 95,000 houses. So that's also for us affordable when they are doing that.
But yes, I don't see that they do it at the moment. So we need a good government for the coming years. That's what I want. So it will be not less. It is also an opportunity that is going better for also for us and also for society.
Okay. But that means you would have the capacity, talking about residential construction, if we would go to 100,000 homes a year, that's an increase of 60% of what we're currently at. You would be able to go along with that.
If it is modular and industrialized, yes. If it's more traditional bricklaying on-site, then I don't see this country resolving that labor shortage. So we if we wanna get there, it requires consistency in government planning, but it also requires a few breakthroughs. How we can do things differently? How do we get type approval of houses rather than go to each municipality to get approval?
How do we don't refurbish one bridge of viaduct, but how do we do 10 in a row? We need to get out of this project mindset of finding a kind of Groundhog Day over and over again into how do we actually make this more of a process work. That, I think, would be the resolution. And if together with the government, we can get in that direction, then after actually there will be a breakthrough.
Okay. Clear. Then a follow-up to that. Talking about automation and making things simpler. The timber frame housing concept, where do we stand with it?
Does it progress according to expectations? And when do you expect to really see an impact in the financials? Because from what I understood, last year, there was a negative impact because you were investing
Small negative, small negative, yes.
Small negative. Are we still talking about the negative impact this year? Or did it already contribute to the good performance?
I think also this year, it will be a small impact, a negative one or breakeven, something between that. I think we have 200, two fifty houses in the factory at the moment for this year. But it is the opportunity that it must grow. So it's also a learning process we have. And we're going from a project company to a process company and production.
So that's the difference, and there's also learning, I must say. But on the other hand, that is the opportunity we want. And the first steps are made. And yes, it is good looking for the future.
I see.
I'm also taking the time now to get all the growing pains out. So with factories, if you scale them too quickly, you also scale the problems too quickly. So we take the time now to get the growing pains out. Because once you have that out, you can actually scale assuming demand is there. That's to your earlier question.
Okay. Then to finish that thought, then looking at 2026, 2027, assuming 2026, there will be breakeven 2027, there will be positive contribution. All things equal in the normal property development, that would mean that, that would already provide some tailwinds for the margin under the very conservative assumption that everything
If you take four or five hypotheses like you're doing, then the answer would be yes.
I don't think that that unrealistic, so that's why I'm asking other things. Okay.
But in all fairness, the thing with a factory is if it's below breakeven, you quite quickly lose money. If it goes beyond breakeven, you quite quickly gain money. That's a simple mechanism of a factory. So as long as we get production volume in, production volume is standardized. That's why the type approval on national level is so important because else you basically make unique things in a factory.
That doesn't work. But if you can get the same type in the factory for, let's say, a plot of 50, a plot of 40, a plot of 80, and you get volume up, it's quite quickly a license to print money.
Yes. Because then operational leverage becomes more interesting, which
Yes. Basically variable cost.
Because okay, clear. Then one last question, order book. I think it's always a bit difficult to understand because you always have some swings and feel like it's always difficult to use the order book as a prediction for top line development going forward. How should we look at the order book development? Because, for example, in Living, we do see an improvement versus the end of last year, however, decline versus first half year last year.
What are the dynamics there? And then also on a group level, stable order book, does that also come from the framework contracts you took in last year, for example, with Tenet that obviously play a role and you can't repeat that every year? Yes, to get a bit of color how we should interpret the order book in terms of top line growth going forward.
So I think there are couple of things. So a, and I think we also alluded on it when we did the annual results presentation for 2024, order book is not an IFRS metric. So each company has its own definition of what they put in the order book. I think we are quite prudent by only putting contracts in that are literally approved, signed and will start. So that's one.
Two, the difficulty with the order book is always like cash, a photo at a certain date. So if a big contract comes in a week before or a week later, it can shift. And that's also why it shifts, I think, year on year. And you should more an order book look at longer term trend than with a year on year comparison. Thirdly, what you see at Highmont, because we're looking much more at recurring business, we're looking much more at suburban developments than urban developments because they simply go easier, they all shorten the order book.
And so the duration of the order book increases from how you represent it. That doesn't mean that that should hamper any growth in the company. So if you would ask me or us whether a €3,000,000,000 order book gives us concern about growth potential at 26,000,000,000 no. 27,000,000,000 no. So it is a very hard metric, I would say, to gauge also for yourself to say, what does this now mean at the end of the day?
Yes. So in simple terms, the biggest growth segments like technical services but also suburban residential development is not even visible in the order book eventually.
Take suburban. So we put it in the order book when there is a signed agreement with to start the construction. Suburban takes six months to build. So you have a six month horizon in the order book. At technical surfaces, you basically have a base level in the order book.
But many of the additional work, because you're working in a building, get projects along, are awarded to you on date x. And two months later, they're already done. So they have, by nature, a much smaller duration. And even with the InfraWorks, we were also looking at much more of a short term cycle because their also recurring business is growing. So that's why if you look over the Highmont's longer term horizon, you would see the order book actually shrinking compared to turnover.
So the build to book ratio actually goes down. So going back to Martijn's question on CMD, this could be one of the topics where we just explain a bit more how to read it because we get questions from yourselves, also from investors. I do understand it's difficult. But unless you really go under the hood, it's also quite difficult to explain.
Because the bottom line, you recommend us not putting too much emphasis on the order book.
That's up to you. But I would say we are confident in this level of order book that we will continue to grow high amounts responsibly within our margin over volume strategy, so growth per se objective. But we feel the confidence in this order book to continue to grow responsibly over at least the next two years.
Very clear. Thanks a lot.
Yes. Martin Hendrejf, ABN AMRO. I have a few follow ups. When looking at Living, have the performances of Vachisberg, Vachisberg Vachisberg Vachisberg Vachisberg at the same level? So Vachisberg was at 13%, 14% EBITDA.
Vachisberg was at roughly 10% EBITDA. So the improvement has been coming from Highmont itself, the former stand alone activities. Is that the way we should look at it?
I think so it comes from two things. So a, I think all three in your analogy have improved in margin b, because of what we said of suburban growing faster than urban, there was a mix impact.
Okay.
And would you be willing to give a guidance on housing sales in the second half of the year?
No. I think it's roughly the same as last year. A little bit there perhaps, but roughly in the same.
Don't expect hundreds difference compared to last year with our own.
Okay. And maybe a difficult question to answer. In housing sales have been at a relatively low level historically versus history. Does that now mean that you're selling lots of houses with relatively old land positions and that once that accelerates that you will have to move to terrain land that you've purchased more recently, meaning that the margin over time, as housing sales accelerate, you will actually get a lower margin on that?
No, it's a mix, I think.
No. So I think understand what you're getting at, but I don't see development cycle significantly shorten. So as long as you have, on average, a five to seven year horizon, you will basically have the same kind of margin profile because land acquisition and development will be in the same kind of duration. If suddenly we would now develop and buy land within a year, then your point could be true. But I don't see that happening anytime soon in this country.
Okay. So the duration of the land positions from Van Horn or Gisbethen were roughly at the same as as Heimerts?
To the extent that they have suburban, yes. But you might recall from the acquisition of Van Wanreich, one of the reasons we bought Van Wanreich was that the Heimann's portfolio was too much skewed towards urban.
That's true. Okay, moving on. I have a few, let's call it, bookkeeping questions. Yes,
yes.
So let's kick off with one for Gaffin. I do remember that last year, you CHF 2,500,000.0 of costs related to ESG, CSRD, and you mentioned that it would be the same, unfortunately, again in 2025. Is that the case on an annualized basis today? And if so, can we when do these costs come down, if ever?
So a, the cost is coming down already. So when we gave that indication, I think it was at the annual results conference, we expected '25 to be in line with '24. What we now see on the back of omnibus regulation in Europe, the fact that CSRD is not put into law yet in The Netherlands. And with the current caretaker, Cabernet, you could argue whether that will be the case in '25. We have chosen more of a stalling or holding pattern, not develop anything more than what we did last year except for a few nuances where we bring CSRD more in line with our strategy.
Long story short, it will be significantly cheaper than last year.
Half of Half, roughly. Half, okay. Cool. And then on the results of the JVs, if you compare this half year to well, let's go back three, four, five years. The JV result this half year is significantly lower than it has ever been.
What's the reason behind that? If you look at the JV assets, it's gone up. JV results go down.
I haven't got the analysis front of mind in my time, so I'm going more on a limp here. But what I would argue is a large part of these JVs is also related to property development. That, by nature, is more spiky. So yes, we have put a significant sum in, for example, JV assets, to your point on the bet of the Hunter Douglas deal. But that will not be developed until a bit of time in the future.
So by nature, they are more spiky. I don't see any underlying pattern in the business why there would be a more fundamental shift between the two.
No, exactly. That's why it caught my eye. Okay. Moving on. I saw that the tax was higher due to higher permanently nondeductible costs. Can you do you care to elaborate?
Sure.
So without making it too technical, there is one part which is related to what they call
Kopestadt, which is a mechanism where you basically sell a house to an individual at a discount, which you will get back when the house is sold by that individual to the next individual
few years some years later.
Remia type of
Yeah. Type like that.
Okay. Got it.
You can can say that. Yeah. I like the same.
Which we left with the family of Von Wanroi of all the projects before first of Jan twenty three. Now that became a bit of a hassle between the two companies, so we agreed with the family of Van Horn Roy to basically take over that right for those premium homes. We paid a sum of money for it. As it was related to the SPA, it was nondeductible.
Got it. Okay. And then the final one of the bookkeeping list. The cash flow statement shows a EUR 5,000,000 cash out for strategic land position and other inventory. Now you mentioned EUR 25,000,000, 30,000,000 for the InterDouglas terrain or something along those lines. Am I wrong?
30,000,000. It is with three other parties two other parties.
Okay. Okay. But if you have minus EUR 5,000,000 and you spend much more on strategic land, so did you sell anything? Or am I missing something here?
The €25,000,000 is all in the investment line because the onethree of the Hunter Douglas terrain that Tom was alluding to is money we put into the JV, to your earlier point. So that goes into the investment line. The other part is EUR 50,000,000 of loans we have given in the Von Braunroy business to current landowners. That's also in the NFST line, on the back of which we have mortgages.
Got it. Thank you very much.
So the 22,000,000 by heart that you would see as an increase in the investor line of cash flow, that's basically the 25,000,000
it.
I also have a mini school bookkeeping question. Where was it? The CHF 6,000,000 depreciation in the Living division going forward? Because I think it was 9,000,000 in the two six month periods before that. That's really dire, I don't
know. I need to look it up, Pat. I don't know.
Okay. Yes. Thanks.
Thanks for all listening. Stay healthy, and speak to you soon.