IMCD N.V. (AMS:IMCD)
Netherlands flag Netherlands · Delayed Price · Currency is EUR
94.92
-0.54 (-0.57%)
Sep 18, 2026, 10:33 AM CET
← View all transcripts

Earnings Call: Q1 2018

May 9, 2018

Operator

At this moment, all the participants are in the listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. I would like to hand over the conference to Piet van der Slikke. Please go ahead.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Good morning, everyone. I'm sitting here traditionally with Hans Kooijmans, CFO, and we want to give you an opportunity to ask questions about our first quarter. Traditionally, also in the first quarter, we do not give an extensive presentation as we have after this call, our general meeting, so we don't have a tremendous amount of time. I just want to go through the highlights with you as we also publish them in our press release. First of all, I can confirm and repeat again that we're very pleased with the results in the first quarter. We had in all regions double-digit growth and in particular, also our organic growth was strong. Good results. Gross profit growth of 21% and 27% on a constant currency basis. EBITA increased with 17%, which is 23% on a constant currency base.

Of course, also net results even 25% on a constant currency base. Cash earnings per share at 20% growth. If I look at the different regions, I won't repeat for every region the results. Maybe a few words about the Americas. As you know, of course, in September we acquired LV Lomas, which was a significant acquisition. We're very positive about the developments. We have taken steps to integrate businesses, and we are also working hard to increase our operating margin, which is with LV Lomas, a bit lower than our average. We see very good possibilities to bring them to a level that we find satisfactory. Looking back at the first quarter, very positive, and with that, I would like to give you the opportunity to ask questions to either Hans or myself.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, we will begin with the question and answer session now. If you have a question or remark, please press star one on your telephone. Go ahead. The first question is from Ms. Srini from HSBC. Please go ahead.

Speaker 10

Hi, this is Srini from HSBC. Couple of questions for me, please. First, on Americas conversion rate. Could you give us more details on the impact on margins from inclusion of the newly acquired companies and the impact from currencies? Is there any price pass-through phasing issue you're facing there? Second, on Asia Pacific. You've been doing some investments in this region. Are there any further investments planned or is it done now? Are you seeing a return from those investments in the region? Thank you.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Okay. Thank you. First, about the Americas in particular, your question about margins and pass-through. We don't have real problems to give increased purchase prices through to our customers. I think we very often do not have that problem, also not elsewhere. LV Lomas, as we also reported last year, had a significantly lower operating margin, mainly due to a higher cost base. We are looking at that step by step to bring the productivity of this business on the level that we want. If you look at our, let's say, legacy U.S. business, that is doing great with very satisfactory margins. Lomas, again, is a fantastic company with a great supplier portfolio, and we just need to optimize the organization more. I saw your note this morning where you said the problem is the margins. I wouldn't characterize it this way.

I just want to say it's just a great opportunity for us to increase margins to the level that we are used to. I think on Asia Pacific, further investments. As a general remark on that, I can say that we always are looking for possibilities to increase our business and also in Asia Pacific. If possible, we will also there further invest in possibilities to grow our business. Does that answer your questions?

Speaker 10

Yes, I understand. One follow-up on Americas margins. LV Lomas margins, you said significantly lower.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Operating margins, right?

Speaker 10

Operating margins, yeah. Can you give us some numbers on that? Like what were the margins and when do you see the margins to come back to the IMCD average levels?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Yeah. Come back is the wrong expression because we never had them. What you need to understand in our business, in the specialty chemical distribution business, that we have huge differences between companies, outside IMCD, sometimes inside IMCD, in terms of what Operating margins are. If we look at companies that we try to acquire, we see a lot of difference. For many reasons. With LV Lomas, the Operating margin was more or less half of what we on average had ourselves.

Speaker 10

Okay.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

We are increasing that already. There's no real reason for that, I would say. Gross margins are more or less on the level that we look for. We could increase that even a bit. It has to do with efficiency, with management strength, et cetera. We need time for that. We see in the future good possibilities to increase that margin.

Speaker 10

Understand. Thank you. Thanks a lot.

Operator

The next question is from Sylvia Barker from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.

Sylvia Barker
Research Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Yes. Hi, good morning.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Morning.

Sylvia Barker
Research Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Firstly on growth, obviously a very strong quarter in terms of the organic gross profit growth, and looks like that was definitely double-digit in all three regions on an organic basis. I don't know if you can give us the way that was actually North America kind of organically. Just to understand kind of what drives it, because obviously it's quite strong acceleration versus Q4. I know you don't like talking about kind of the tonnage or the volume, versus GP per ton, but was there particularly strong development on either of the two? Volume versus kind of the value per ton that you saw during the quarter, or were there any supply relationships that perhaps drove that high as well?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Okay, let's first agree that we would not speak about value per ton. We never do that. We don't know that. That's typically something you discuss with-

Sylvia Barker
Research Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Kilo rather

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

our colleagues. Yeah, even per kilo. Which in itself is more relevant maybe, but because of the diversity of our business, where we have business of less than EUR 1 per kilo and EUR 40 a kilo, it's very difficult for us to have a meaningful discussion about that. I think your question is more about, is it price driven, volume driven? I would say both. I think we benefit, of course. Let's not fool around that also from a very healthy demand and economy. I think everybody sees that in Europe and elsewhere. Both volume and price go up. On top of that, we have a very strong product portfolio, and we try to, of course, increase that portfolio every day. We benefit during favorable economic circumstances. Not sure.

Sylvia Barker
Research Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Has the price element, I guess, been particularly strong given we have seen perhaps prices obviously go up on the specialty side relatively strongly? Would you say that you've been able to pass more of that through, maybe sequentially? I know it's difficult to kind of talk about in near term but-

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

What would you-

Sylvia Barker
Research Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Is that something that you would pick out or not?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Sylvia, what you mathematically see is that our gross profit percentage remains stable compared to the first quarter of last year.

Sylvia Barker
Research Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Yeah.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

That means that if there would have been a price impact there, that we have been in a position to pass that on to customers. What Piet said before, it is a combination of the healthy economic environment, strengthening the supplier base, and selling more.

Sylvia Barker
Research Analyst, Deutsche Bank

That's sure. In terms of the supplier base, were there any supplier agreements kind of ramping up strongly?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Yes. Well, we don't speak about individual supplier arrangements, unless we really need to. We see very good possibilities, and very positive conversations with suppliers to increase, let's say, representation, both here in Europe and in the Americas. Also from that angle, business is doing well. What we see, of course, also in North America is the benefit that we have of covering a significant part of North America now. LV Lomas helps us also to increase our business because our coverage has increased. The credibility from us as a North American distributor has, of course, also increased. That helps to benefit from supplier outsourcing.

Sylvia Barker
Research Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Okay, great. Would you be able to just confirm the North American organic growth rate? Just because it's difficult, on a quarterly basis, to split out exactly what the LV Lomas contribution would have been.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

You indicated double digit in all regions, and that is true organic growth.

Sylvia Barker
Research Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Okay, great. I've just got two very quick ones. One on LV Lomas itself. Have you identified any agreements or any areas of the business that you would need to get rid of or de-emphasize over time? Are you happy with everything that you've acquired? Lastly, just on the interest, you have refinanced again. Would you be able to give us maybe an interest guidance for the year, please? Thank you.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

On the first question, I think we are happy with the business as is in LV Lomas, there will be no major, let's say, changes there.

Hans Kooijmans
CFO, IMCD

On the interest?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

On the interest, I think what was indicated in the press release is a one-off cost related to the refinancing on the one hand, to allow you to make a guess what you could expect in the second quarter, plus the interest rates of the new facilities, whereby the bond is, of course, fully drawn, so that's 2.5% on top of the EUR 300 million, and that is fixed for the upcoming seven years. On the revolver, as you could calculate back from the reported leverage, you might understand that most of it is undrawn. The combination will result, excluding that one-off amortization, to more or less similar interest cost as what we saw last year.

Sylvia Barker
Research Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Okay, great. Thank you very much.

Operator

The next question is from Quirijn Mulder from ING. Please go ahead.

Quirijn Mulder
Analyst, ING

Good morning, everyone. A couple of questions. We have no clue on exactly what the organic growth is, but there's certainly an acceleration in the first quarter against the fourth quarter. Can you give me an indication of what the seasonality effect is in the U.S. and in Canada? Because it seems to me that there are some seasonality there as well, and maybe more than before. Second question about the cash conversion. 18 million put into the working capital. Is that a one-off? Is that because of the good business, or is that something we are going to see in the second quarter as well?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Maybe the first question, seasonality. Specifically about the U.S., I don't think there's a specific seasonality in our U.S. business. I think generally as an IMCD, I would say the first two quarters are stronger than the second two. That's I think what we always mentioned. There's no specific seasonality in the U.S.

Quirijn Mulder
Analyst, ING

Okay. That's not changed because of the acquisition of LV Lomas.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

No.

Hans Kooijmans
CFO, IMCD

Coming back on your cash conversion, Quirijn. I think the main driver of the increased working capital is increased debt positions. Of course, when you sell more, your debtors move up slightly, and as a result of that, you invest more in working capital. Suppose that our sales level will stay on this same basis, I think you should consider this more or less as a one-off.

Quirijn Mulder
Analyst, ING

Okay. My final question about Brazil. Can you give me an idea about the situation in Brazil? Because it was some sort of headache for you in 2017.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Yeah. Brazil, as you know, is constituted by two different activities. One is mainly Pharmaceuticals, and the other is very much focused on the industrial markets, like Coatings and Plastics, et cetera. On Pharmaceuticals, we continue to perform very strong. That's a business that's doing very well. On our industrial business, we make very good improvements in optimizing and improving the business. We are still not there where we want to be, it's going into the right direction. It's, let's say, moderately positive about Brazil, although the circumstances in that country, of course, remain not easy because of not only the political situation, but also the currency situation and the economic situation. By and large, better than the, let's say in our business, more improvement than last year.

Quirijn Mulder
Analyst, ING

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

The next question is from Nathalie De Bruyne from Degroof Petercam. Please go ahead.

Nathalie De Bruyne
Analyst, Degroof Petercam

Yes. Good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. Most of them have been answered. Perhaps I will switch to something else, which is not linked to your results, but really more to a general market trend. I read recently that some chemical manufacturers, BASF and Covestro, among others, are actually starting to move to online distribution channels, AKA Alibaba, in Asia. I was wondering if you would see that as some kind of a threat to your business or if to you that is some kind of a non-event and you don't believe in it.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Well, you have to be very careful to say that you don't believe in it, as many other businesses have experienced. Of course, we look at these issues, at digital solutions also very carefully. We have seen already for a long time, even after, let's say the first internet, how we'll say, push, let's say in the early 2000s, platforms and sales platforms for chemicals. We have seen that for a long time. They have never gone away, and they have never totally took off. We are very well aware that also chemical producers are looking at these possibilities, in particular for standardized volumes and standardized products. We feel that in specialties, that is not the case, and it's still difficult.

Nevertheless, of course, we invest ourselves also quite a lot in digitalization, in how can we make lives of customers easier, how can we help them to make decisions, and how can we also transactionally improve our offering. A threat, no, but on the other hand, we also very much aware of improving our model, our service level, and we're working hard on that. I can't give you, let's say, a very fixed answer, well, this is going to happen, I think nobody knows. We as in our role with our formulation expertise and our technical backup to help customers formulate products, we don't see that as an immediate threat.

Nathalie De Bruyne
Analyst, Degroof Petercam

Okay. Meaning that your added value is much more in formulations, which we were already aware of. I'm wondering where are you with regard to the additional labs being built, especially in North America, because I understood that is pretty important and that with a broader presence, actually, you are able to gain suppliers or relationships. How is it evolving in this regard?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Yes. When we invested in the U.S., there were no labs. We have now a coating lab. We have a personal care lab in the U.S. We are opening a pharma lab in the next few months in the U.S. With Lomas, we have a very significant food lab in Toronto, which we will expand further. That will be a very good and sophisticated aid for our food business, which is quite significant in North America. Yes, we have invested quite a lot in that.

Nathalie De Bruyne
Analyst, Degroof Petercam

Okay, you keep on investing in that.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Yes.

Nathalie De Bruyne
Analyst, Degroof Petercam

Could we expect to see more labs coming?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Yes, depending on the needs. Yes, it could very well be that regionally we have to also invest. As I just explained, already a significant investment and if that cannot fulfill, let's say, the needs, then we will invest further.

Nathalie De Bruyne
Analyst, Degroof Petercam

All right. Thank you. Very helpful.

Operator

The next question is from Peter Olofsen from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.

Peter Olofsen
Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Good morning, gentlemen. Few questions left. First on the Americas, based on what you said about Brazil, is it fair to say that when it comes to the organic gross profit growth, that North America grew a bit faster than Brazil?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

I don't think so.

Hans Kooijmans
CFO, IMCD

No.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

No. Generally, very happy also with the growth in Brazil.

Peter Olofsen
Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Both likely seeing double-digit growth then?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Yeah.

Hans Kooijmans
CFO, IMCD

Yeah.

Peter Olofsen
Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Okay. On supply conditions. I think in the full year earnings call, you talked about some disruptions and enforced measures last year. Have you seen that ongoing? Has it normalized a bit or is it still from time to time causing some headaches for you?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

It does, and it is, of course, also let's say it signifies also the healthy state of the economies. We still see shortages in certain areas and under capacity, so to say. Yes, it's a headache. In some product lines, we would love to have more products. Well, that's a bit the nature of the business, so it's not something we complain about. It's not, let's say, a big issue, but it is, yeah, for certain of our market segments and product lines, we still face that.

Peter Olofsen
Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Okay. It has not been to such an extent that it has really limited your ability to grow in certain segments?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

No, we could have. Well, in the end, of course, if you don't have product, you can't sell and you don't grow. It's not something that I want to now highlight here as a major problem. Of course, for individual product lines and market segments, it can be a nuisance.

Peter Olofsen
Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Okay.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

I think it's okay.

Peter Olofsen
Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Okay. That's clear. On the holding costs, I noticed they were up a bit from Q1 last year. Should we expect holding costs in the coming quarters to remain at the same level as in Q1, or could we see some further increases there?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

That is difficult to predict, Peter. What you see when the business is growing, we also strengthen support functions that we have centrally. There is a relation between the size of the business and what we do centrally. Another thing that you see, Piet just referred to digitalization. We also invest there at capacity, and that leads to some additional cost that we are involving at the moment.

Peter Olofsen
Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

As you grow the business over time, we might see some increase in the holding costs over time as well, but maybe not major increases, but at least some.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

No. Yeah.

Peter Olofsen
Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Okay. My final question relates to EMEA, where we saw pretty good growth. Were there end markets or countries that stood out, or was the growth pretty broad-based there?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Yeah, it's broad-based. It's many different, let's say, not only regions, but also market segments that do well. Pharma stands out as doing very well in the first quarter. Generally, that's not a picture that is different from other years. No, I think that most of Europe has performed very well.

Peter Olofsen
Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

The next question is from Philip Richard, from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Philip Richard
Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Hi. All my questions have been answered. Thank you.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Okay.

Operator

Okay, the next question is from Rajesh Kumar from HSBC Bank. Please go ahead.

Rajesh Kumar
Analyst, HSBC Bank

Hi, good morning. I'm hearing from some of your competitors that the suppliers are demanding for better payment terms, in the sense, the payment cycle has been shortened by some of the suppliers. Is that something you're seeing in your end of the market, specialty chemicals, that sort of thing? The second one is a follow-up on the Alibaba question that, have you ever tried to estimate what proportion of your suppliers' products do you distribute versus what they distribute directly? How much of the Alibaba thing is sort of replacing their own networks versus third-party distributors?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Well, first question is about shortening payment terms. As a trend, we don't see that. Of course, we have discussions always, but we don't see a difference from past years. On the Alibaba question, basically I think you started to ask what % of is direct.

Rajesh Kumar
Analyst, HSBC Bank

Yeah.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Yeah. I think these are relevant questions and also not easy to answer. I can only refer here to reports that have been done in the past by consulting firms like Boston Consulting.

That always centers, let's say, what is through the distribution channel centers between 15%-20%.

Rajesh Kumar
Analyst, HSBC Bank

Understood.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Between 15% or 25%. That means that 80% is more or less done direct.

Rajesh Kumar
Analyst, HSBC Bank

Okay. It's clearly an opportunity for them to probably expand a bit more into new markets through third-party channels, the bits they were doing in-house. Is Alibaba competing with the in-house bit, or is third-party distributor? Do you have any sense around?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

No, not yet.

Rajesh Kumar
Analyst, HSBC Bank

Not yet.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

It's just too early. In the end, you need to see also from what is the actual benefit.

Rajesh Kumar
Analyst, HSBC Bank

Okay

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

for the customer to buy through Alibaba or direct or through the third-party channel. We should be only blinded by these names, because in the end, we talk about chemicals with a lot of additional, let's say, services that need to be done to be able to deliver chemicals and to handle chemicals.

There's a lot of, let's say, knowledge necessary. It's not a book or a appliance that you sell. It requires a lot more care. I don't think it's so easy to just throw that on a Alibaba platform or an Amazon platform. Time will tell. I don't know, Rajesh.

Rajesh Kumar
Analyst, HSBC Bank

Thank you very much, sir.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Yep.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, you can still ask additional questions by pressing star one. Please go ahead.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

All right.

Operator

Oh, wait. There's one question coming in. Peter Olofsen from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Nobody.

Operator

Mr. Olofsen, you can talk now.

Peter Olofsen
Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

I had a question on APAC. Could you shed some light on what you're seeing in Australia and New Zealand in terms of demand trends?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Positive, but not exuberant. Some growth versus last year, but let's say, not in the same league as we see in Europe or the U.S.

Peter Olofsen
Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

On a constant currency basis, the gross profit was up 10% in APAC, and I don't think there was any M&A impact, it's all organic.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Yep.

Peter Olofsen
Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

It's fair to assume that Australia and New Zealand, which is about half, is growing single digits, and the other part of APAC is growing double digits?

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Yeah.

Peter Olofsen
Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Yeah.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Nope, that's a fair assumption. Yep.

Peter Olofsen
Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Okay.

Operator

Mr. Chair, there are no further questions.

Piet van der Slikke
CEO, IMCD

Okay. Well, thank you very much. I think the work is for me. I thank everybody, and wishing everybody a fantastic day, glorious day, hopefully on the beach. All the best.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the earnings call. You may now disconnect your line. Thank you. Have a nice day.