European Internet and Media Conference. I'm Lisa Yang, and I cover the European internet and media sector here at Goldman. I'm delighted just to kick off the day with a fireside chat with Ervin Tu, the Chief Investment Officer of Prosus, which as you know is the largest consumer internet company in Europe and also one of the largest technology investors in the world. Ervin joined Prosus as actually Chief of Investments, Strategy and M&A in December of 2021. This was a newly created position where you were responsible for leading investments and overseeing capital allocation. Previously, Ervin was Managing Partner for the SoftBank Vision Fund, where he helped lead investments in Uber and Binance, amongst others. Actually, Ervin was also a technology banker at Goldman Sachs a few years ago.
Thank you again, Ervin, for being with us today. Maybe you can start by walking us through, like, how the first 18 months have been at Prosus, and how has it been different versus your expectations and versus your time at SoftBank?
Well, it's been an amazing 18 months, right? We, on a number of dimensions, of course, the world looked very different 18 months ago. It's been changing through the course of that time. As I think about the what of what I've, of what I've been doing in my day job, it's quite different, right? When markets were ebullient and everyone's investing, and growth was the name of the game then, and we had a fair amount of that even when I joined in the fall of 2021. As things started to shift, the outbreak of the war, the rates raising, of course, at a dramatic pace, we very much went into managing the portfolio, managing our businesses, managing the firm mode.
Most of you will know that we announced a very significant buyback program at the end of June at our annual results, we've been pushing our portfolio to profitability. We continue to do those things and are focused on that element of how to create value as opposed to planting new seeds in the ground. As a matter of what I've been doing, it's been very different. Maybe the how, just a little bit on the how. The things that I've noticed being here, many people ask us, ask me what's so different, right? One of the things that is absolutely striking is we very much do things we know, and we very much focus on understanding at a level of depth that I think is aligned with being operators.
We are both operator and investor, as many know, so I think that makes us better in both domains. We are thoughtful and considerate in every decision we make. That's a big change. I think, you can all read about SoftBank and how SoftBank was. It's a different place. I have great friends still there, and some have left. I owe a lot to Masa and Rajeev and the team. Very different place.
You mentioned obviously how last year has been quite a turbulent year in general for the economy, for the tech sector in particular. I was just wondering, obviously, given your perspective, your experience in this space, like how do you think the environment for operating as a tech company is also investing in tech company has changed over the last year? How has that impacted Prosus?
As a matter of operating, right, we have operating businesses. We have significant businesses in classifieds and food and payments and the like in B2C. B2C, e-tail is classic e-commerce. Businesses like eMAG and Takealot. I'd say the first thing that comes to mind is we are absolutely very, very prudent in our planning now. We are digging five, six, seven levels deep, as operators do, to really assess the potential for these businesses, particularly the profit potential, and evaluating whether the growth is sustainable, can be profitable. Is the OpEx stack truly something that can support profit? What levers can we pull to reduce OpEx? Can we expand gross margins? We are going deep in these discussions and planning. That's one part of the answer on the operating side. We're making decisions, as many of you have seen.
The autos announcement OLX transactional autos announcement that we made just several weeks ago, I think is emblematic of that approach, which is to take a hard look at our businesses and assess whether we can continue to generate good returns for us and our shareholders, right? In terms of operating businesses, that's what I'd say. In terms of investing, you know, we continue to look aggressively for good ideas. I think the valuation environment, of course, is markedly down in the public setting, in the private setting. For a few high-profile examples, a Stripe and Klarna and Instacart and so forth, we haven't, by and large, seen a significant downturn in private valuations. The best businesses raised a lot of capital through early 2021, and they're managing through this moment, waiting it out as opposed to pricing down rounds.
We sit here today with a very healthy balance sheet, I think many of you know, which will get healthier at the end of the month due to our friends at Tencent and their distribution of Meituan, and we feel great about that. As a matter of investing, we are looking hard, but we're staying very disciplined on deployment because even though prices are down and people are encouraging us to, "Why aren't you doing more?" Our answer is very simple. Prices are down doesn't mean they are good businesses to invest in. We'd far prefer to be patient, wait for a moment, and put more capital behind something that we feel is truly exceptional, as opposed to being force-fit by the moment into just investing in what turn out to be mediocre businesses. That's not good for anyone.
That's what I'd say on the investing side.
Very interesting. Thank you. I'd love to talk a bit more about the operations. What are the latest or the current trends you're seeing across your different segments? I guess you have on one hand the macro potentially impacting your consumer behavior.
Yeah.
and your operations. At the same time, there might still be some post-COVID normalization as well, affecting that. What are you seeing currently?
It's a great question, and this is multifaceted, right? We could take this in a number of different directions. I think the post-COVID normalization, yes, we are seeing the lapping effects on growth that many businesses are confronting now, and so too in our portfolio. That's point one. We do look at the long-term trend, though, relative to pre-COVID and in terms of activity level orders, order growth and so forth, still stronger than pre-COVID. As is relative to pre-COVID. It's, if you leave aside the lapping dynamics of COVID. On the rest, I'd say the answer depends by geography and by business. This is why it's a complicated topic and a good topic to discuss. Many people say, "What about inflation?
How are you managing through this inflationary environment and high yield environment?" By the way, we have businesses in places like Turkey and India, which have had higher rates and for a sustained period of time. We know how those businesses can still be successful in inflationary environments. They are successful. Our businesses are performing well in those markets. For other markets, yes, the consumer is under some pressure. I think many of you can read or have read the reports coming out of the food delivery sector, which is probably most prominent in terms of is this a discretionary or non-discretionary thing for consumers. So far, the data is mixed, but by and large, the predominance of data suggests that the consumer is hanging in there, right? Frequency is still stable.
We're seeing perhaps a little bit of, if there's a certain basket, maybe someone is removing one item from the basket, okay. They're not ordering five things, they're ordering four things, but they're still ordering the big entree. With inflation, actually, AOV's are up. People have been doing things like minimum basket order size. They're increasing those, so maybe that's also contributing. Frequency is stable in the food world. AOV's are up. People are still ordering. We haven't seen a significant result in terms of the pressure that people think about generally with the consumer. That's food. Our payments business continues to be very strong. Healthy growth globally as well as in India. Our credit business in India is growing very quickly.
Yes, there are pressures in the consumer generally, but actually in our portfolio, and I think you can observe other businesses as well, there hasn't yet been a significant pressure on results.
Actually related to that question, we've seen a number of companies rationalizing their portfolio.
Yeah.
-exiting markets. Do you think the bulk of it has been done? To your point, a lot of the private companies, you know, still have cash. Do you expect to see a lot more rationalization to come? Where do you actually see the biggest benefit for Prosus? Which segment you think is gonna be most impacted?
Well, in the general case, of course, rationalization, you see rationalization when there are a bunch of cash burning businesses and they benefit from combining the scale of their top line and...
Mm-hmm.
-reducing their OpEx stack, right? That's the general case. That will continue to happen. That's happening a little bit already. As an example, quick commerce in Europe, we know Getir and Gorillas, for example, is one. We're a shareholder of Flink. That will... I'm not making any predictions, but I think that's a healthy development for the industry, and I think that will likely continue, right? Not just in Europe, but just elsewhere, where that industry emerged so quickly and powered by pandemic tailwind in terms of consumer behavior, their growth start skyrocketed, but everyone understands the unit economic picture was never a healthy picture. That may be one example. We believe in... I'm not gonna comment on specific names, but we believe in that thesis, right?
Rationalization, consolidation can improve economics and therefore outcomes, returns for all of us. Elsewhere, you know, if you look at our portfolio, we have very healthy businesses across the rest of the portfolio. As I consider the question for our portfolio, I'm not convinced we will see much of that in the rest of our portfolio. You consider our food businesses which are profitable or only unprofitable because they're investing in some of these extensions. You consider our classifieds business, which, absent the OLX Autos transactional business, is a very profitable, healthy grower. Our PayU business is a profitable business. I don't think the rationalization is something we likely will observe in other elements of our portfolio.
I think on the edges, we'll see some in those very cash consumptive businesses.
Right. How does that change your priority? You said, you know, you're going, like, 5, 6 levels deeper in terms of.
Yeah.
evaluating your businesses. Has this sort of priority in terms of like investments organically has changed, or you're shifting more towards, as you pointed out, like asset-light as opposed to more cash consuming businesses as we've seen with OLX Autos or?
Yeah. It's another good question. We think about this one a lot. I think it's less about asset intensity. People ask us, "Is it CapEx intensive, asset-light versus asset heavy?" We've never been generally fans of asset heavy CapEx intensive businesses anyway. Most tech businesses aren't that way, although there's been some evolution towards more physical elements of online businesses. Food delivery is actually sort of a physical business, though there's no heavy CapEx. Just giving an example. It's less about asset intensity. It's more this moment is really pushing us to consider one of the core questions of durability of demand, right? Back to your question previously, what exactly is discretionary versus non-discretionary, right? We've all been living this. Is not one of our businesses, but is Netflix discretionary? You know, streaming discretionary?
Like these, everyone is asking this question. Food delivery, it's actually proven, again, based on what we've seen so far to be quite non-discretionary. It seems to be quite stable. Habits are hard to break , and the consumer now is quite used to ordering from these platforms. I'm not talking about China, 'cause China's in a different league in terms of food delivery. You know, three-ish times, two and a half to three-ish times per month. That's what we continue to see. That question, more than asset intensity, is one that we ask ourselves a lot.
Mm-hmm.
When we consider the profile of our businesses on the revenue side and growth. The rest is, as I described earlier, really taking a hard look at gross margins, really taking a hard look at on the OpEx lines, particularly the sales and marketing. Sales and market is connected to growth. How much of... If we were to tail back some of the S&M, what is that do to our growth, and can we afford to do that? Is it discretionary? Is it non-discretionary? These are things that there's an interplay.
Um.
It's a complicated topic, but it's one we think about carefully.
Great. If you can switch to capital allocation.
Yeah.
Which obviously one of your remits. The CMD back in December, I think you discussed how the capital allocation strategy of the group has changed. You mentioned more disciplined investments, reaching profitability and also looking for further opportunities to crystallize value, which we haven't touched upon.
Yeah.
yet. I know it's still early days, but could you already talk about the progress you've made against, these objectives?
It is early days. I mean, relative to what we talked about three months ago, we are working on all of it. In particular, I'd say on the crystallization side, we're not here to make any announcements. I'm personally involved in guiding a handful of situations right now actively, which we hope will ultimately result in a crystallization of some form. I think I alluded to the fact that it was a real thing and not just something on a slide in December when I spoke with everyone, and it continues to be a high priority for us. Crystallization, yes. I think in terms of the other part of capital allocation, of course, is what do we do with the cash that's sitting on our balance sheet.
You've heard me already in terms of our posture. I'll just emphasize it again. We are continuing to look for high return opportunities for us and our shareholders. We're being patient.
Mm.
-because we think that things will shake out. They haven't yet fully. When they do, we'll be ready with some dry powder to be opportunistic and make great investments. That's another part of it. People have to remember too that, look, we invest in our organic businesses. That takes real capital. That's not just something that most investment firms don't have this, but we do. We evaluate our investment dollar in connection with our organic or operating businesses the same way we do when we think about putting in a minority position in a growth company. I think that's witnessed the, again, the autos decision which we-
Mm-hmm.
announced. We'd use the same standards whether it's external or internal. We are investing, people have to remember, in our organic businesses. That's real capital, and we feel great about it, but we're being careful.
On the crystallization point, how much of that is under your control as opposed to dependent on market conditions, on certain approvals?
Uh, it's-
What are we talking about here?
Yeah. Look, some of it is listing companies, of course.
Mm-hmm.
That's not fully under our control. As people know, that process is not one that you snap your fingers and you can launch a company. It takes real work. It takes time. By the way, that's not a bad thing when the markets are the way they are. The IPO market, last time I checked, is not exactly open. It's okay. I just want our shareholders and people to have assurance that that is a high priority for us, to highlight the value we have in our portfolio and show people what fantastic businesses these are, really shine a light on them. There are active M&A situations that are ongoing, right, throughout our portfolio. Those could happen sooner. M&A is an uncertain exercise.
I was an M&A banker here at Goldman, so.
Exactly.
I know it well. I know it well.
You discussed obviously potentials of active M&A situations.
Mm.
Given the discrepancy you mentioned between public and private assets, are we talking more about like, you know, M&A with the listed entities as opposed to private companies or?
Yeah. I'm not gonna go there. We have public and private positions. I just say that we are working actively across the portfolio.
Great. obviously, you know, speaking about your portfolio, Tencent is still more than 75%.
Yeah.
Of your NAV.
Yeah.
They reported their results yesterday. I think it's up quite strongly today. Can you maybe give us an updated view on, firstly, the outlook for Tencent, and also how important it is still to have Tencent within the your portfolio? Is Tencent basically, too big, in your portfolio?
Do you think it's too big, Lisa?
Asking you.
Look, Tencent, we feel great about Tencent. They printed yesterday, as many have seen, growth has returned. Modest growth, but growth, 1%. I think particularly promising, I hope people notice that the segment, the online advertising segment grew 15%, right? That's a major thing. We think we feel great about the overall China recovery story and the consumers coming back. That will power, we believe, the business for some period of time. As an overall matter in terms of what the business is doing, we feel great. They, of course, have also focused on showing more profitability, gross margins up, EBIT margins up. All of that is goodness, and they expanded the dividend, so we're thankful. All of that is very positive, and we feel great about the business.
Your question about portfolio construction, I'd say I think over time, right, and I'm not gonna be specific what that means, we think long-term, right? Of course, there could be more balance in the portfolio. Our preference, our strong preference is that occurs via our ability to grow other stuff, our e-commerce businesses or other things that may come into the portfolio, right? We are a firm, if you look at the history of our firm before Prosus, when it was just Naspers, but Naspers Prosus complex, we have changed enormously over time, and that will continue as we seek, you know, the highest returning investments or businesses we can find. That will continue, and that we hope will create more balance in the portfolio. Would we start...
If we had a clean sheet of paper, would we start with a portfolio that it looks like this? I don't think anyone probably would start that way.
Mm-hmm.
We are the beneficiaries of the great success of Tencent, and so we are where we are.
Great. Speaking about basically this topic of rebalancing your portfolio, how big of a role do you think M&A has to play in that? Do you think it's mostly gonna come from the value creation from your existing businesses, obviously it depends on the market recovery?
Yeah.
Do you need to deploy a lot of M&A capital on M&A in the next few years?
I think about it this way, Lisa. It could happen in, through a number of different avenues. One thing we're not gonna do though is just do M&A just to become bigger and create balance. That is not productive. Many people know M&A, as a general matter, the percentage of successful M&A is, you know, it's not high. It's a, it's a big thing of, a significant decision to make. It could be M&A. We are looking. It could be, you know, growing our businesses organically, although that would be a slower process.
Yeah.
For achieving balance. Everyone understands that. It could be investing in fantastic growth businesses, minority holders with fantastic growth businesses which become large. That's also a viable strategy, and we continue to believe in it. We're looking right now. We're not seeing those great businesses. That's how I'd approach the question. Look, the M&A thing, we are, we know when we see something, let me say this, when we see something that from a return standpoint we love, then yes, we are very we have the flexibility and the conviction to deploy big capital behind something. That's true. We will do that, but we're not gonna do it just to become bigger.
Does this require further selling down of Tencent to rebalance that portfolio?
Well, we. Again, our preference is far in the other direction, right?
Mm.
Which is to build, alongside rather than do things with this position in Tencent, a great business where we have significant confidence in what management is doing and the business outlook from here. We are of course, every day, we're selling down a little bit already, so it's rebalancing a little bit already. I don't think you should anticipate any significant moves.
Mm.
We are, in terms of the balance question, I think I've addressed it. Our focus is on trying to add as opposed to subtract.
Right. I mean, just want to follow up. I have the impression, and maybe I'm wrong, that you have maybe been more outspoken about M&A than during previous calls. Correct me if I'm wrong. What would basically pull the trigger in terms of you deciding to make those M&A decisions?
Returns, right? Everything we do is returns oriented.
You're not seeing the right returns today? Is that why you're not doing it or?
Well, I'd say, we're thinking carefully about different situations, and we haven't yet, we have made no announcements, let me just say it that way. We're doing work on a number of opportunities and both private and public. We're patient. You know, people are worried about what we're gonna do with our balance sheet.
Yes.
Remember, everyone, just several months ago, it was a very different picture. Last time I checked, it's a good thing to have some cash around when the world is uncertain as it is. It's pretty damn uncertain right now. We feel lucky, we feel fortunate we are in this position. We are in a position of strength in terms of our balance sheet and our businesses, pushing towards profitability and delivering what we hope delivering on what we committed to the Street in terms of profitability. We feel good about our position and there's no need to rush.
Great. That leads me to obviously the must-have question, which is about your discount.
We have a solution.
It's for the end. I mean, clearly obviously we're getting a lot of incoming recently.
Yeah.
I mean the discount has widened back to 40%. We get the question very often, is this the new normal? Like, you know, what are the plans to sort of reduce it? Because obviously you have announced this opening to buyback already.
Yeah.
Like, what do you think of the discount?
The discount, we don't control the discount. First statement. It's for all of you in the market to trade our stock relative to our underlying asset value. We, of course, think about it every day. What we can control are the things that we've communicated are our priorities. Number one, delivering on our profit goal for our consolidated businesses by H1 FY25. Number two, continuing the buyback, which creates enormous value for our shareholders, even more so when the discount is high.
Mm.
Right? Our NAV per share accretion, last time I checked, was approaching, you know, per share 5% over the duration of the program already. Number three, the crystallization efforts that we've discussed and is an utter focus for me and my team and the firm generally. Number four, China and Tencent, we hope the recovery continues.
Mm.
Today it is a good day so far for China Tech. We hope that continues. We don't control that, but we have good optimism there. Number five, I know you're gonna ask me, and everyone asks us about it. Simplification.
Simplification.
Yeah, simplification. We, we're working on it. We hope to deliver-
What does this mean? There's a lot of myths-.
Mm-hmm.
Rumors about it. What do you actually mean by that?
It doesn't mean leave South Africa.
Okay.
I wanna be absolutely crystal clear. People still ask us about that, and there have been many misunderstandings. Let me say to everyone, that's not what it means. We are working on simplifying our structure in some way if we can. Okay? That's as much as I can say. We are... I think it's... Our shareholders have been expressing their views to us, and we are actively working, but it's not something that, I can go into detail now, and it's... I can't give you a timeline.
Right.
I know people say, "When can you say something?" We'll say something when we can say something. What I hope you'll appreciate is the whole senior team is actively working on something that we hope will create simplification.
Is this like, feedback you're getting a lot from European or South African investors, the need to desimplify? Is that? It's a ma-major-
It's across the board. I think from our great shareholders in South Africa, we may be getting a little bit more because, as you know, the buyback, which we're conducting both of the Prosus and the Naspers end at the moment.
Mm.
On the Naspers end, we do have a limitation in how we're doing, how we're effecting the buyback. We're doing so through a subsidiary at the moment.
Mm-hmm.
There's a 10% limitation on effecting the buyback. If you play out what will happen over time, the course of the next several months, that limitation we will reach. Part of our effort is to try to solve and fix that. I'd say perhaps our South African friends are a little bit more vocal.
Mm.
Everyone's vocal.
What, is it because the fear you might not get the approval to keep buying back stock or?
I just think, I'm not gonna speak for them.
Mm.
I just say that people want the buyback to continue, right?
Yeah.
I think our own instinct, and you'll have your own analysis, is in recent, if you look at the discount, both Prosus and Naspers.
Yeah.
The Naspers, the gap has changed. Our discount generally has gapped out a little bit. It's widened and maybe because of these things, who knows? We understand the shareholders are focused, and we're working as hard as we can. I'm looking at one of our shareholders right now. Just make sure he's hearing me.
Speaking about shareholders, I just want to check, is there anyone in the room who wants to ask a question or? Yeah, go ahead.
You mentioned Netflix, and I was just curious on that idea of durability of demand.
Yeah.
Non-discretionary. Do you think it's possible to know for something like Netflix or more broadly, to have a high degree of confidence in whether it is, you know, durable or not, discretionary or not?
You can only know through after the fact observation of what happens to behavior, right? When, shoot, Disney, of course, you all saw raised prices and no one blinked an eye. Like, everyone just. There was no churn, barely. You don't really know. Of course, you have strong predictions, but after the fact is when you can observe.
Maybe just a quick follow-up on that. When you say, like, the 6-7 levels of analysis.
Yeah.
We went through that.
Yeah.
You really can't know until you get the data.
Yeah.
What is, like, the fifth, sixth, seventh level of analysis to sort of get you that comfort before you get the data?
We don't reach any conclusions before we have the data. I'm not sure where your question is going. I wanna make sure I'm answering your question.
Well, you said before when you're looking at these investments now.
Yes.
and opportunities, there's multiple levels of analysis-
Yes.
going on. In some cases, we still don't have the data. In that case, you're just not investing. Is it sort of that idea of the confidence level you go in?
I'll answer your question in a, in a general way. We are very data-driven, so we don't like to make decisions without data. Where we don't have the data yet, you know, we realize we'll make some decisions. Of course, there's corroborating information. Sometimes there's no direct information. On your specific question of durability demand, that is one where I don't think anyone really knows until, again, until the fact. The five to six, seven levels down, what I'm alluding to is we're not just looking at the P&L, right? We are looking at a number of operating metrics. I sit in on a monthly basis, a metrics review of all of our businesses. That includes all our senior team. Bob, of course, chairs that. We go pretty damn deep on the numbers.
That's what I'd say.
Any other questions?
Yes.
There was quite a big focus on the risks and potentials around generative.
Yes.
-AI.
Yes.
Is there anything you guys so far have looked at, I would say potentially around the EdTech business, that you think is an opportunity or threat to the existing businesses you've got?
The generative AI is an exciting development, and we have a dedicated team who is evaluating for us. We even have We have our own version of ChatGPT internally, which we've all been using, and this is all before the craze broke out a couple of months ago. We're looking at it very carefully. We continue to monitor. We have also, you know, met some of these companies, and we're assessing our approach. With respect to our portfolio, which I think is the focus of your question, we believe the effect is differential across the portfolio. There will be some segments where there's more potential impact, threat or opportunity versus others. We see that as well. EdTech, you mentioned it. Yes, that's one that will be affected.
We are thinking through actively how we respond and how we deploy in our favor. Yes, we've noticed. It's important.
Wait, maybe I can ask you. I think you said, several times, you know, the bar to invest in a new area...
Yeah.
is really, really high.
Yeah.
Just wondering, obviously, there's still a lot of innovation, a lot of entrepreneurship.
Yeah.
Is there any sort of, you know, very exciting, like, segment, like you guys are looking at? Like, you might be thinking of?
Yeah.
I'd say maybe not now, but, you know, on a multi-year view, which you think is interesting.
Yeah. We've done a lot of thinking about that. I'm not here to announce any new areas today.
Mm-hmm.
I think we continue to believe our current portfolio, the segments we have in place, actually still offer great growth. We are at that stage where we've scaled these businesses. In the general case, we've scaled these businesses. We're tuning them for profitability, and they can produce great returns for us. We're very focused on delivering on the promise and the thesis we had with respect to our current portfolio.
Mm.
as opposed to really spending too much time considering new things at the moment. We're thinking about it. Of course, we have people who work on that. Our ventures team is organizationally doing that every day, right? They're investing in new stuff in smaller checks, but it's not a priority at the moment. We are very much focused on what we have and delivering against what we communicated.
Amazing. Maybe last question. I mean, clearly, I think the conclusion of today is that we should be buying Prosus.
Please.
underappreciated. what do you think is still like, misunderstood by the market?
What's misunderstood by the market? I'm not gonna use misunderstand. That's a.
Underappreciated.
Underappreciated, perhaps. I think people... You know, these sessions I think are useful because people have an opportunity to see how we as managers think about the world. First of all, forget the team. The firm sits in a good place right now.
Mm.
Right? If you consider where we stood one year ago when the war broke out in late February, we didn't know what was gonna happen to our very strong of e-tail business. Our food delivery, the sector had traded down significantly. Tencent was not trading well. It was not a happy time. We've made a number of moves that have strengthened our balance sheet. We've really delivered so far on pushing our portfolio into that profitable zone, and we'll continue to deliver that. We announced the buyback program, right? Which I think has made a big difference in creating value for our shareholders. We made a number of decisions to strengthen our position. We've been also, you know, beneficiaries of, you know, the Tencent announcement of the May plan dividend we didn't anticipate. That's, that's goodness for us.
I hope people appreciate the position we're in. Very uncertain world with an outlook that no one can predict.
Mm.
We sit here with a strong set of businesses, a great balance sheet to take advantage of opportunities, and a buyback program that delivers value to shareholders every day. That's good. As I look out at the rest of the companies, not at the audience, but the rest of the companies in our sector, broadly defined, or technology, that's not a picture that exists. Back to the team. I hope people appreciate that from some of our decision-making, we are utterly focused on creating value, utterly focused on returns. You can see that. These decisions that we are making, I credit... Bob's not here, but he's behind-
Mm.
some of these big decisions. Of course, the decision on Autos, that's not an easy decision. Not an easy decision, but it, I think, is testament to our utter focus on returns. As operators, you know, investors, sometimes they participate in a follow-on round, they put in a structured instrument, and they hope for an outcome. We're operators. Operators shut down businesses or sell businesses and make difficult decisions.
Mm.
That's who we are. I think that's emblematic of our approach as a management team, and I hope that that's appreciated as well as people consider what we've done and our performance over the last 12 months.
I actually forgot to ask you 'cause I think OLX Autos is, I think the exit was probably much earlier than what people were anticipating. Has anything happened there for you to exit at this point or?
No, we're working on it. We're working on it. My team is actively-
Mm.
engaged there, but we can't talk about it further. There's nothing to announce.
Okay.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Cool.
Thank you so much again.
You're welcome.
for being with us.
You're welcome.
Very, very helpful. Thank you.
Okay.