Earnings Call: H1 2020

Aug 26, 2020

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to Frontier Digital Ventures Half Year Financial Results Conference Call. All participants are in a listen only mode. There will be a presentation followed by a question and answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Sean Igric Goyo, Founder and CEO. Please go ahead. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to another FTV call. This is our half year results that were released to the market this morning. As many of you who might follow-up would know, we released quarterly also back in July, so most of the financial data is in the market today. We hope to use this as an opportunity to talk a little bit more about our operational update, our strategy update and what's happening more over in the markets. Also worth noting that we actually listed on the ASX on August 26, I think, in 2016. So this is our 4th anniversary of being a listed company. It's been quite a journey. And we'd like to thank those who are on the call who may have been shareholders throughout that period who have been very supportive of FCD over that 4 years and we look forward to the next 4 years as well. So getting into the document, I'm going to walk through the first couple of sections. There are 4 sections. 1 deals with our bit of an operational update, another just the difference is our strategy. In Section 3, there are the results that I've mentioned, most of which are in the market already. Section 4, we've provided an appendix with a bit more information about each of the operating companies that are in our portfolio. At the moment, given the state of the world, we're very much of the view that more information is better than less. So we've tried to give our readers as much information as possible. We can plausibly put into one of these documents and hopefully that gives people a good sense into where we're at. As the host mentioned, there is certainly time for Q and A toward the end of the presentation. So in terms of our operational update, which is Section 1, some highlights. I'm going to walk through the slides. So I'm going to move on to Slide 4, which is just looks at our profitability. So when we look at the half year, one goal that we've had certainly through our existence was on the one hand, to really send a clear message to the market about what we're doing and how we're doing it and be very consistent in delivering on that commitment. And I think in the half year to June, we maintained our trajectory and seen our progress toward profitability. So I mean, this was really achieved back in March when we looked at very clear signs that COVID was approaching and you've got one of 2 choices. You can act swiftly or you can bury your head in the sand. We are very promising of what had happened in Hong Kong with SARS and what happened in Wuhan through December and January into February. So we work really closely with our partners addressing the cost base. We knew that with lockdowns that typically revenue starts to ebb away, but we were really effective in being able to work with our partner at a local level and identify that there was going to be a bit of a choppy few months. And the best thing you can do is to look at your cost base and really just prepare yourself for a couple of few months and the uncertainty that brought that came with that. One important thing that was noted over the last number of months in the first half is if you get in and you recognize the environment around you and you make quick decisions and you make them fast and you apply them quickly to your business, you then really allow yourself to focus on what you can achieve versus what you can't achieve in lockdowns and things like COVID. So for us, we made some really fast decisions early that enable our operators, our businesses to really focus on how they can extend their brand positioning through COVID, how they can improve their market leadership and more particularly, how they can innovate their product. So over the last couple of months, we've seen an extraordinary amount of innovation occur, particularly in digital businesses, but more so when you look at our portfolio, there's been an awful lot of innovation that's occurred in terms of bringing consumers through the journey and helping them transact houses and cars and other items on online platforms. So that's been a real feature over the last number of months. And also, the market leadership of businesses through COVID, if you're a market leader in this period, you're going to come out of this period and even stronger market leader. So we've seen a real slight to safety. Look, the sum of that is we were able to continue to deliver on the signal that we've provided to the market around our trajectory toward profitability. And we think that, that was a real feature of our management over the last number of months. So you can read the EBITDA numbers yourself. Pleasingly, what we've seen, and I'm just going to go over the page now on to Slide 5, is some real clear signs of a recovery now. So we always had a view that we would get to about now and we'd see economic activity return, lockdowns being released. And if you've done the hard work through March, April and May, you position yourself really well about now to make the most of the recovery. And we've seen some pretty stunning returns to commercial activity in our markets. And that's been evidenced by revenue in the back half of June and certainly July starting to bounce back really strongly. And that's been right across the portfolio. So our view is always do the tough work in March April, reduce your cost base, which should endure post COVID, and that was evidenced in the EBITDA performance of the portfolio. And then as economic activity returns, as the lockdowns are released, you can position yourself really, really well to accelerate your revenue. And we saw that in July. So our plan that we set out a number of months ago is proving to be pretty astute in what we thought would occur. And we're starting to see the revenue recovery, which has been certainly terrific in July. In terms of right across the border, Pakistan is a really important market for us, and we've seen some significant improvement in June July in that market as well. They went into the lockdown a bit later in that particular region. They've certainly come out of it with a real bounce over the last 6 weeks, and all of the indicators we look toward support those businesses really improving in the second half. As I mentioned, a big feature of the last number of months was taking the opportunity to look at your cost base and look at things like your marketing and your employment costs and really depending on whether our portfolio is optimized. And we had to be the clear air to do that. We were able to do that with all of our partners. And consequently, we actually had Q2 in our business at a sum of the parts level with an improved EBITDA performance from Q1. So we think we've really used the COVID period studiously by focusing on analyzing our costs, by really spending some time on innovating around our product set so that as people prefer a more digital experience, we're really well set from an IT and innovation perspective. And obviously, that allows us to sort of bounce out of this period with really strong revenue rebounding and maintaining profitability, which we think has been a real bonus, if you like, of the last little while. I'd also point to the fact that I think the last number of months has been somewhat matured in validating our strategy around our business model. And our business model has probably 2 key features to it. One is that it's obviously digitizing the process by which people buy houses and cars. I think what's been clearly that there's been an acceleration in the preference for digital platforms around purchases and expect that to continue. We always had a view that people would prefer digital platforms to buy houses and cars, but we think that that's been accelerated by COVID and innovation that's happened now in the market around digitizing purchases is really important. And secondly, if that structure is investing in these businesses with local partners, where we were able to act really quickly. And we think that, that's been a feature of our model as well. So for all of the doom and gloom in COVID, we actually saw it as an opportunity. We saw it as an opportunity to reflect on our cost base. We saw it as an this is this is just the sum of the traffic to our sites right across our network. And you can see that in March April, consumers in the lockdown stopped searching for houses and cars. What we've seen in June and it's accelerated in July is that there's actually more people in the month of July using our network of sites than there was before COVID. It's actually the highest traffic numbers we've had. So we've not only seen a rebound in consumers coming to our network of sites to look at buying houses and cars and other goods, We've actually seen an increased number in the month of July and that's continued in all of this. There are more people than ever now wanting to access digital platforms to look at buying houses and cars. And when we went into COVID, if you go back to February, the first thing to disappear when the restrictions came in is consumers going to the website, which meant you had fewer leads, which meant you had less commercial activity. That's really down to really strongly. And it's not just in a few markets. If you go over the page on the Slide 7, I think all but a couple of the businesses now have more traffic than they had pre COVID. So this has been a really interesting evolution in the model where we've always prophesized that not only are these businesses online classifieds businesses, but they've morphed into marketplaces and they're now becoming full Then, of course, the marketplace has opened up where consumers could do so much more. And then, of course, we've seen this push towards consumers wanting to do the whole transaction by these digital platforms. And interestingly, post COVID, that's accelerated. So innovation and consumer preference that we thought would probably take a couple of years is being accelerated into a couple of months. So as we come out of this, I think digital based businesses are really well positioned. I mean, digital businesses promoting the transaction of houses and cars have actually had the future come toward them at quite a rapid rate thanks to the change in people's preferences. If you go over to Slide 8, just to give you a sense of how the regions are recovering. Obviously, different countries have had different lockdowns and different strategies, but most of which are now reducing restrictions, and that's when economic activity returns. So you've got a bit of a flavor there. I'm not going to go through this in detail. But what we have seen is all of the markets now have returned to commercial activity. The best indicator, the best indicator of that is the data on the previous slide, which is about consumers. And as we see consumers return, we're seeing more traffic than ever coming to these websites, which means that the post COVID world is going to suit this kind of business really nicely. So it's all about now accelerating into that opportunity in the back half of this year and obviously into next year. Just moving on to the next slide, which is number 9. If you wanted to kind of think about what's the silver lining out of this, how do you make the most of this situation? And maybe aside from people in Victoria, I think most of the rest of the markets we're in certainly are now accelerating out of the restrictions. We've really been able to achieve a few things in the last number of months. I think our reputation globally has been enhanced by the performance of our portfolio, by the strategies we took back in March April to reduce costs and really focus on consolidating market leadership, really focus on the innovation that you can achieve through that period and being able to accelerate out of the period with a really solid balance sheet, with a really solid EBITDA perspective. Most businesses over the last 6 months have had revenue reductions, but have seen their EBITDA numbers blow out. We've managed to mitigate that. And I think that that's been a real feature of our model, which is being able to have strategic oversight into our operating companies and then the local management teams being able to execute really quickly. We have seen this slight of safety around brands, particularly in emerging markets. In emerging markets, these markets, these online classified brands have always been a trusted intermediary, and that's been accelerated through this period as well. So we've got ourselves in a position where we're coming out of this in a real position of strength. I think there in the post COVID world, I think there are 2 types of companies, quality companies that have used the period to their advantage and made the most of it and are now emerging out of COVID in a real position of strength where they've got good access to capital, they can improve their market positions, they've got strong balance sheets. And I think we're very much in that category. I think there's a group of companies that come out of COVID with a really brittle business, whether that's poor balance sheet or really heavy EBITDA losses or poor market positions, it's where we don't want to be. And I can assure you that we've been very focused on making sure that we're in the former category of companies that can now really look optimistically at the next 6 to 18 months and how they can grow their businesses, consolidate their market positions. And I think we've got ourselves in a really strong position to do that. I think our model has been validated. It's been proven to be extremely resilient. And that's given us a really strong foundation for what we consider to be a really exciting and opportunistic 6 to 18 months ahead of us. So when we look forward, I can tell you if you spoke to people back in March April, it was 3 different words. But when we look forward now, they're probably more optimistic than we've seen in a long time. Ironically, they're probably more active. And I've just gone over to Slide 10. I get to read my own quote, which is kind of weird. But we're more optimistic about the opportunities that are out in the market. They've managed to do a deal with our Alexa over the last number of months, which has really enhanced our reputation with companies of that size and that ilk around the world. And we look forward to the next 6 to 18 months. We think that the left things out of the last number of months have been really valuable. And if you've used the period well, well, you can just go back to that underlying EBIT, which is just the long term focus on shareholder value that they've always promoted in our business and will continue to do so. That's always been at the center of everything we do. And we think that we've got ourselves in a really strong position to continue to deliver on that commitment to our shareholders, which is always about creating long term value in all of the decisions that we make. Just moving on to Slide 11, just quickly to recap some of the activity that's been going on in our business in the first half. There's been monetization events in Vietnam where we exited property. We've had a number of increased shareholdings in our portfolio. So we continue to look at opportunities to buy more of the companies in our portfolio that are performing well. And that's something that is a constant. We will continue to look at our portfolio and try to improve our positions in the companies that we think have really good long term value. We've expanded into a couple more markets by the deal we did with Alex in Central America. So we now basically cover from border of Mexico down to the border with Colombia. So that part of the world is now under the U24 banner. And we've also managed to strengthen our balance sheet over the last 6 months, albeit modestly. It's certainly strengthening our balance sheet with a new suite of investors in North America is really important to us. We think that investor market can be really important to helping us grow over the next number of years, and we'll spend time cultivating some really wonderful relationships in North America that we think will underpin a lot of our growth in the future and deliver as we've been able to do a really strong balance sheet for us. So it's been an extremely busy 6 months as everyone would appreciate. They've been more active in the last 6 months, I think, than they've ever been, and they just have some really exciting stuff on the horizon. Just quickly, and I'm conscious of time, is I'll just read through the strategy section just to remind people of how we operate. On Slide 13, you can see that our business model has been really consistent. Our ability to work with our local partners in helping them plan and run their businesses. And of course, as those businesses in our portfolio grow and mature and become more robust, we'll attempt to buy more of them. And then you end up businesses that are pretty well self sufficient and market leaders. And that's where we've pushed a lot of our portfolio over the last sort of 12 to 18 months. So we think that the model we pioneered back in 2014, which was a bit unique at the time, has really delivered for us over the last 6 months, particularly in this very flexible model. We were able to adapt really quickly with the model we have, and we think that that's delivered a real competitive advantage. And that's certainly been really relevant certainly over the last 6 months and we've seen the positions as well. If you stick over to $14,000,000 it just gives you a bit of a sense of some of the things we focus on, on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, which all go back to building those businesses, delivering scale. That scale, obviously, then allows you to generate revenue and improve your EBITDA performance. And after that, we want to deliver long term shareholder value. And we think that there's an awful lot of upside, not just in the markets we're in. We think that there's obviously upside in the markets we're in and markets that are adjacent to the markets we're in. But we're also seeing a heck of a lot of opportunity come out of this. There's a lot of operators and businesses out there that are a bit stressed at the moment. And if you can get yourself into a position such as ours where you've got strong balance sheet, got a good solid EBITDA base, you've got market leaders, you've got good support. We think that there's certain opportunities for growth. And we do that already prepared with a really good balance sheet. OZ-one hundred and fifteen is probably just a little bit of information if people are catching up to our story or a bit new to the story. We have 3 fundamental reasons that we focus on. I don't expect us to be moving out of those regions anytime soon. So there are 3 reasons that we continue to look at. And you'll see that the split there of the types of businesses that we invested in and where they are it's been pretty consistent over the length of our story. If you go over again on to Page 16, just a bit of background again, absolutely those that might be near to the stores and some others. It gives you a bit of a background about who I am and what we've done in the past. And another slide further on, just a bit of a corporate view about our register and details of our Board. So beyond that is the actual detail of the results. I certainly encourage everyone to go in and have a look. We've provided an awful lot of detail. In the appendix, you can see we've broken out each business and looked at its revenue and EBITDA performance over the last number of years. They've also given you on a business by business basis, just to look at their traffic trends and the traffic that you're seeing when you go into those slides, that's also less than organic traffic. So that is free traffic to your website. None of that is paid traffic. We've gone back to the free traffic that you get, the direct traffic, the organic traffic, which is through search. And if you look into each of those businesses, you'll see a very consistent trend whereby new traffic slowed in February into March into April. You then saw the revenue impact in April, May June, and then you're seeing a very consistent recovery, firstly, by traffic in July and into August. And then we've obviously seen that within itself in revenue in July. So very consistent pattern across markets we're in. Traffic does, revenue falls away, you cut your costs, you prepare to accelerate out of COVID. We're now accelerating out of COVID with more consumers than ever returning to our website. And obviously, July revenues were significantly up on the average of the preceding 3 months. So that's FTZ over the last little while. We'll now hand back to the operator who will, I think, now open the call to questions from anyone that's wanting to get any clarity or detail on anything that we've covered this morning. Obviously, our full year results, our audited results are also released to the market this morning. So people can come through those if they want to dive into specifics around the financials or any other matter. But obviously, happy to take questions now on anything you've covered this morning. Your first question comes from Anthony Porto from Morgan Financial. Please go ahead. Hi, Sean. Can you hear me? Yes, mate. I can. Yes. Excellent. Just quickly, so you mentioned LLX and the working relationship and our partner with Samin and E24. Just your obviously, you're on a focus to breakeven or to get these businesses showing leverage. Just are they on a similar path? Just are they more prepared, I guess, to reinvest back in the businesses and play the real long game given the difference in portfolio representation of portfolio for you guys? Obviously, it's a main and E24 majority of your portfolio versus not much for OLX? That was the first question. And then I guess the balance sheet is looking pretty good, close to $21,000,000 pro form a cash. Should we be thinking of new geographies, verticals within the geography? Or should we be thinking of potentially buying more stakes in what you already own? Thanks. Yes. So just to answer the question on Olathex, I can give you my opinion on Olathex. I can't have this have this quote their strategies. It's good for them to answer. But certainly, they're in it for the long haul. They've if you look at the landscape of large classifieds global classifieds conglomerates is the class system you could describe. And they are absolutely in it for the long haul. So it's very prepared to invest. I think there is a caveat there that there is also a commercial concern and they're listed and they want businesses, of course, ultimately to be profitable. But they have they do understand that there's a balance. And I think in seeing that, Anthony, there's a balance there where you absolutely want to invest for the long haul. But you do have to run businesses for profit. And I think that that's something that will be increasingly important to them just from their perspective over the journey. But they've invested in a lot of a number of emerging markets now and they understand how to work. But they, like us, like our operators, want businesses to make money, and that's where you can really crystallize value for shareholders. So I think it's early days also in our relationship with O'Lakes. And to be honest, they're there. They kind of just want to say that the management team get on and run the business. To answer your second question, we do have a good balance sheet, which is great. And we're very if you look back at our history, we're really we spend money like it's our own, if that makes sense. We're very careful on that front. The natural thing to do when you're running these businesses is to consolidate the markets you're in, number 1. Number 2, you might then look at adjacencies. And what I mean adjacencies, that can either be different types of businesses in the markets you're in that's less common or maybe there's the geography right beside you that makes sense to move into on it. Infocarcus who are in LatAm, so it's several based out of Uruguay. Over the years, they went into Paraguay and Bolivia and more recently, they've moved into Peru, but they've done it on a real light touch. And if you look at their traffic performance, they're now growing faster than anywhere else in that market. So there's ways and means of going to new markets. Certainly, if there was a compelling opportunity that came our way and it was in a market we were already in, where we thought it could consolidate our position or it was in an adjacent geography, that's easy to do. You're probably not going to see us going to a random geography with a new business outside of the regions that we've mentioned and outside of the types of businesses that we know really well. So we're keeping you like to keep your options open, but you just got to you got to do the smart thing. And that's consolidating where you are or moving progressively into geographies that are very close to you. That's generally the easiest path. Thanks a lot, Sean. Thank you. Your next question comes from Adam Hunter from Bell Potter Securities. Please go ahead. Good day, Sean. Hi, Adam. How are you? Yes, good. Thanks. Good. I'm right on another good result there. I get that as the audience levels drop, so do revenues, which is what we saw in a few of these previous months. If the audience level was back up above where they were pre COVID, does that make it easier for you now to monetize in some of your countries? And can we are you expecting an increase in these growth rates now as a result that they've actually gone back above the pre COVID levels? It's a really interesting question because number 1, this is uncharted territory largely, isn't it? We can reflect on what happened in Saab, in Hong Kong, in Wuhan. There's probably not a bucketload of compelling dividends to tell you what will happen. But what we can say is that innovation around buying houses and cars on the Internet was probably something that is spoken about. It's happening. And a lot of the innovation was probably some things we expected to see over the next couple of years. What we've seen in the last 3 to 4 months is that innovation rapidly come to today and it's been accelerated. So we've seen the preparedness of consumers to go 95% of the process on buying a car online, which pre COVID might have been closer to half of the process. So we're seeing that accelerate, number 1. Number 2, we've seen if you're a market leader and you've got a really strong brand, you're probably going to come out of this as an even more dominant market leader and an even stronger brand because of this flight to safety around consumer choice. So those two dynamics are really fascinating. And then you add to that this rapid recovery in people going to the Internet, going to digital platforms, houses and cars. And then you add to that revenue in July bounced back up following the lockdowns being released. The $64 question is, what's the trajectory of that over the next 6 to 8 months? And if you add all of that up, you kind of go, well, yes, I think that this model accelerates. It's very difficult to know because it's uncharted, but all of the evidence would suggest that more consumers have more rapidly gone down the digital path. These platforms were down that path anyway. That's been accelerated from an innovation and product offering perspective. And all of the early signs as what the potential out of this are really positive. I'd be reserving suggesting that it will you can monetize it more than you thought before. I think you can, but it's something that we'll have a much clearer view of toward the end of this year. But weather is really encouraged and almost like pleasantly surprised at the pace at which consumers have returned to use these platforms to look at houses and cars. We thought it would take a bit longer. It's faster. And so we'll see what the rest of the year looks like. I just think one thing it does, Adam, is it further concerns that buying houses in Paribas Online was something that was spoken about. Some people did. Some quarters offered. The reality is that that's just been accelerated and brought forward. So we think that there'll be opportunity out of that. And the other thing to keep in mind is that a lot of businesses got really stressed through this period. So you sort of come out the other end as we are now with less competition. There's less there's going to be less players in each of these markets. It's not going to be an environment where you can launch a business, burn a bit of money and someone will throw you a check to keep it going. That's just gone away. The strong businesses survive and the strong will thrive. So there's been a real reduction in activity by those that were perhaps number 3 or number 4 in market. So fascinating set of circumstances and one that we think is by a bit of good luck and a bit of good management sort of plays to what we've been doing anyway. And we hope we can make the most of it. Yes, Ryan. Have you seen an explosion in online shopping as well like we have in Australia's Temple and Webster and Coven and all that? Has that gone through the roof also? Yes. Certain I mean, I can't comment more generally on e commerce, but certainly, it's increased. I mean, that's just a fact of that's just a function of fact, isn't it, where people have turned to online more than they had before. And as I said, the indicator for us has just been the volume of people going back to the websites really quickly. And keep in mind, when we went through March April, one of the things we dreamed was marketing because one of the kind of positive people weren't looking at your site. But 2, marketing, when you're spending marketing dollars online, it's a bit like a drug. Website's bid on the drug and they're very they can't get off it and they keep sending them. Only when you've had an opportunity like this to strip back a lot of that paid marketing, just go back to the organic and the direct traffic coming to your site. And sometimes, Adam, if you actually reduce the marketing spend, it allows more organic results to come up on search engines and more direct traffic to go to your site anyway. So we've just found that it's been a really interesting period to see through a lot of the assumptions that we're in, how you get people to your website, which is you've got to spend on marketing. But we're just seeing this terrific increase in direct and organic traffic back to higher than pre COVID levels. I mean, if you'd ask me, would I be sitting here in all the same that there's more people looking at sites now than there was pre COVID, I probably wouldn't have believed you. So it's been a real dynamic shift really quickly in these markets. Yes. And actually, leading on to my next question, I'll be quick so I can let someone else have a go. But the cost reductions, you touched on quite a few times. Is that all related to and also the organic growth in visits to your site, Is that contributing to a big part of your cost reductions, the fact that you're not spending marketing dollars and SEO money and all that sort of stuff? Or is it a reduction in staffing levels or It's a bit of everything. I mean, it's clearly a reduction in marketing, and it's a bit of a reduction in looking at your staff costs in each of these businesses. And in emerging markets, a lot of companies will solve problems with people. You sort of add people to do things. And what it enabled us to do on a country by country basis was look and say, well, are all of the people you've got in the business fully deployed, number 1, and they all are you getting a return on what you're spending? And inevitably, the answer was no, right? But when things are going along nicely, no one really is compelled to ask those tough questions. It's only when the opportunity presented itself where you could ask those tough questions because contextually they made sense to ask. We're at the end of it, you know what, it's probably not fully deployed with all the FCEs. And they're probably not all billions. Guess what, I think we can do more with probably less. And it was an opportunity to test that thesis. And in most cases approved churn. And in marketing, it's fine. We kind of said, well, when you look at your marketing spend and you pair it back to what you're getting and you measure it against leads and inception times and transactions, is it really optimized? And inevitably, the answer is probably no. So we were able to go through those exercises and really become more efficient. Now some of those costs will inevitably return, but never to the extent that they were before. The delta from your revenues to your OpEx should always be greater now because you've actually had a chance to really look into it. So it's a mixture of the best bit of employment, bit of marketing, bit of other. But moreover, it's about as efficient as you could possibly be and if you're seeing an opportunity to become more efficient. Yes, good stuff. Thanks for that. Your next question comes from Roger Coleman, a Private Investor. Please go ahead. Sean, a couple of quick questions. I'm going to go straight to the presentation. For each of the companies, could you give us an idea in future of cash balances and the desired cash balances to expense ratio for conservatism. And that way, we can follow the buildup in cash and then spill over the apparent company expenses so we can calculate when dilution is initially for the overall company. Yes. The best if I can't obviously answer that in detail on this call, but if you could say that, that's a plus market of the future. Yes. So if you look at Slide 20, you'll see just the EBITDA performance, which is not a bad proxy for cash, right? So if you want to think about businesses being profitable and retaining a cash balance and then the ratio of your revenue, for example, to that cash balance. So say, for example, if I cast it, they might want to have a cash balance of US500 dollars which is 3 months 2 months revenue, whatever the number might be. So they might say, we want a cash balance of 3 months revenue as a cushion. And then anything above that would either be invested in some way in growing that business, perhaps in a new geography or in product set or submitted back by way of a dividend to shareholders, the largest one of which, of course But I understand. Yes. Just building on the next question, could we have average currencies for the half year in quarterly reporting? Because some businesses like Pacifan businesses have overcome a 60% depreciation in local in U. S. Dollar terms. So we are able to report in some of that misleading to the real activity that's going in on underneath. So I'm wondering if you could just have the currency exchange rates you're using on a half year on a quarterly basis, please? Yes. We can look at putting a table into that effect so you can get a look through into the local currency. And it's fair to say that the business has probably performed better over the last 6 months in local currencies than they did when they go through the payer. Obviously, in fact, obviously, in fact, it's a yes. Yes. Just moving on, just one last question. In terms of post COVID or pre COVID, you've obviously got a worldwide dispersed operation, a very small head office. I've seen small companies like Enirog having Chi, CEO, worn ragged by doing tour by the sea trips from the Antipodes here. How are you going to manage yourself personally the structures of trying to run something across 3 continents with a small overhead? Well, I think our model is always thinking about cultivating self sufficient. And we spoke a lot about if you go back to our Investor Relations in the last half of last year, thematically, we spoke a lot about businesses and their self sufficiency and that was measured by their capital needs, I. E, can they get to breakeven and they have the they need to grow. Number 2, it was about the development of their local management team. So we never had a view that we would live in departure lounges forever and trying to go in and literally parachute in almost and have the money we've got. The aim is always to help them develop their own capacity to manage the business efficiently. And they get there with a bit of scale. They get there when their revenues take over a certain number. They get there when they're market leaders. And if you look at our businesses, they've all now developed their local management teams to the extent where they're far more self sufficient than they've ever been logically, right? So the work that we do with our portfolio now is more pointed at their strategy rather than execution on the ground. We've spent the last 3, 4 years talking to them about operational aspects and helping them and being there. They're really more focused on how do they deliver the scale in their markets, how they got their strategy right to dig through, how they got their products set. So there's not a coincidentally enough, we've been able to manage our portfolio quite efficiently over the last 4 to 5 months based on the fact that we've had access to things like Zoom and others. So we're not terribly worried about that. I mean, the bar for us is that we own more and more of these businesses, maybe 100%, and they're really able to operate under their own steam, both on a capital mix basis and on a management basis. And that's our aspiration, and that's what we're driving towards. So we're hopefully going to travel, well, certainly in the last few months, not much of a lot. Less is more in that context. Right. And I've got one last question relating to the less competition coming out of this COVID. Does that mean there's less opportunity because the ones that survive are more expensive now and the ones that have sort of faded away are not very fine? I would say the ones that have faded away were probably not the ones you're going to buy anyway. So that's sort of I mean, that would have been a function of time, if you want. But I think it just goes to the idea that COVID has accelerated so many aspects of what we do to today that might have taken a year or 2, whether that's product innovation, whether that's market leadership improving, whether that's competitors falling away. I just think it's brought forward in a rapid rate instances, aspects of what we expected to happen over the next couple of years. Right, right. Just on the share price chart, that's not your fault. Thank you, I think. Good Thank you. That does conclude our question and answer session at this time. I will now hand back to Mr. Deep Grigoyo for closing remarks. Thanks, everyone, for dialing in. I hope that this was useful. And again, our 4th anniversary. So thanks to those that have been on many of these calls over the last 4 years. We hope to have you on these calls for the next 4 years and 4 years after that. Just to recap, I think that's worked really hard over the last 4 to 5 months in getting ourselves into a really good position by way of our business model, our balance sheet and our performance of our portfolio. So we're really excited about the next 6 to 18 months and what's possible. And we look forward to coming back to the market as regularly as we have and continue to update people on what's happening with our business. So thanks again to everyone, and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you. That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.