Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Flight Centre Travel Group full year result presentation. All participants are in a listen-only mode. There will be a presentation followed by a question-and-answer session. If you wish to ask a question, you will need to press the star key followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Graham Turner, Managing Director. Please go ahead, sir.
Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us today for our FY 2024 result presentation. The format is the same as normal, but I'll briefly run you through it before handing over to the more important people. Firstly, you'll hear from Adam Campbell, our CFO and the CEO of our Global Business Services area. You'll then hear from Chris Galanty, our Global Corporate CEO, and James Kavanagh, our Global Leisure CEO. JK will hand over to our head honcho, Skroo, who will run you through our prospects for the year ahead and also our longer-term outlook. After that, we'll go to Q&A, and our Supply CEO, Greg Parker, will join us for that part of the presentation. Thanks. I'll hand over to Adam.
Thank you, Haydn, and welcome everyone, and again, thanks for taking the time to join the call this morning, but as I look back on FY 2024, I know that all of our teams should be very proud of what they've achieved. We've progressed in the execution of our key strategies and plans. We've seen significant improvement in our key metrics, and we've delivered strong returns to our shareholders. We've seen ongoing TTV growth over the past 12 months, with higher productivity across all four of our divisions. Revenue margins have continued to recover, our cost discipline has continued, and we've continued to invest for the future, Flight Centre Travel Group, not just the current. Underlying PBT of AUD 320 million finished midpoint to our guidance and reflects what I think is a pretty solid overall result.
With AUD 23.7 billion in TTV, our net margin of 1.35% was also a good stepping stone towards our ultimate margin target. Our TTV, while a record for us, did slow in the second half, given the airfare deflation that we saw in key markets, as well as industry-wide lower growth rates in the corporate travel sector overall. The closure of GOGO in the second half and the Indian foreign exchange business at the start of this year also had an impact. Having said all of the above, that record TTV represented 10% growth year to year in both the corporate and leisure segments, and was achieved with much greater productivity. The 100 basis point increase in revenue margin for the year was another positive outcome.
While Greg can cover any specific questions that you might want to go into, as a general comment, our total available margin across all of our product categories continues to improve. That includes traditional back-end structures in air, as well as new strategic initiatives like NDC, where we now have specific NDC agreements in place with various key airline partners such as Qantas and Singapore Airlines. Chris and JK will also cover their segment-specific initiatives that are improving our revenue margins shortly. Cost discipline has also remained front of mind, with our operating cost base 15% below 2019 levels, and with further opportunity to reduce our cost margin of 9.6% as volumes continue to increase.
And we see economies of scale via our Global Business Services division, our productive operations initiatives in corporate, and further productivity and cost out improvements in our other divisions. As we announced previously, as well as the Indian foreign exchange business that was closed at the start of the year, we've also closed the underperforming GOGO and Discova Central America's businesses. Student Universe has been restructured and now forms part of the Jetmax business, and we expect that the AUD 6.5 million in trading losses for that business will not reoccur in 2025. In addition, the Infinity and Travel Junction wholesale businesses have also been restructured, with Infinity now part of Envoyage and servicing our independent agents and agencies, and TTJ operating separately as a bed bank, providing API access for B2B customers.
Again, we expect a heavy reduction in the AUD 6 million losses reported by these businesses in FY 2024 as we look ahead to 2025. All of the initiatives and outcomes to date that I've spoken about mean that we've got the building blocks in place as we progress towards our target of a 2% PBT margin. We've also got strong momentum as we finish FY 2024, with leisure PBT margin above 2% for the second half, corporate above 2% for the fourth quarter, and both the ANZ and EMEA segments above 2% for the full year. Obviously, PBT margins will be lower in the seasonally softer first half of FY 2025, but again, it's great to see some of these results starting to flow through. We do believe that we're a business that should be operating at a 2% net margin.
And to do that, we'll need to see our corporate and leisure businesses operating at around 2.2%-2.3% for the full year. As we've spoken to many times, we won't sacrifice our business to achieve that goal in a specific timeframe by sacrificing our non-financial assets, abandoning important strategic investments that are currently operating at lower margins, or slowing growth in highly profitable but lower-margin businesses. Indeed, in FY 2024, we saw 15% year-on-year TTV growth in lower margin businesses, compared to a 5% annual growth rate in higher margin businesses. So although we have a path to achieving this target in FY 2025, our business mix may impact that timeframe. Chris and JK will talk to the corporate and leisure segments shortly.
But it's worth highlighting that the corporate PBT of AUD 211 million was a 44% increase year-on-year, and included record profit for Corporate Traveller. Leisure profit more than doubled for the year, with revenue margin improving 110 basis points and net margin finishing at 1.7% for the full year, and in excess of 2% for the second half, as mentioned earlier. The other segment, we also have another slide on, and that segment has also improved significantly this year, reducing from a AUD 100 million PBT loss to a loss of AUD 79 million. Additional investment in TP Connects was more than offset by improvements in our operating businesses such as Discova Asia, Back-Roads, and Topdeck, as well as the exclusion of Gogo and Discova Central America, given their closures.
Total head office costs have also improved from AUD 74 million in losses to just under AUD 60 million, due to previously quarantined head office space in Brisbane, Melbourne, and New Jersey being sublet or exited during the year. Normal cost discipline through the support businesses and improved net interest in the segment. Finally, our balance sheet continues to be in a healthy position, with cash in excess of AUD 1.1 billion and operating cash inflows for the year of AUD 420 million. During FY 2024, we have undertaken almost AUD 450 million in capital management initiatives, including repaying AUD 250 million of bank debt and nearly AUD 50 million in overdraft facilities, AUD 84 million to buy back convertible notes, and AUD 62 million in fully franked dividends paid during the year.
Although the first half of each year will always be seasonally softer and is generally a cash usage period, over the full FY 2025 year, we again expect to accumulate operating cash flows as profitability builds, and we utilize our COVID-era gross tax losses of AUD 1.2 billion to offset taxes payable. And we'll use that cash to continue our capital management initiatives, including the buyback of convertible notes in the short and medium term. I'll now hand over to Chris to run through our corporate division.
Thanks, Adam. I'll give a few more insights into our very pleasing corporate results and an update on our global corporate strategy. I'll start off by reminding everybody that we continue to address the market with two global winning brands, FCM in the enterprise and large market space, and Corporate Traveller in the SME space. We do this, which is a very different approach from our competition, because we believe that customers in the two respective categories have fundamentally different problems that need solving, and by having dedicated brands, we can better address those problems. Also, customers in the large market and SME space are acquired very differently with different sales cycles. By having dedicated management, a dedicated sales and marketing machine, we can win these customers and achieve better growth rates than our competitors. A few results highlights.
I'm pleased to say our transaction volume again saw very good growth, with transactions up 11% on the previous year. A key strategy of ours was to improve revenue margin, and I'm pleased to say that we saw a 30 basis point improvement in revenue margin, and our underlying profit before tax margin was up by 40 basis points as well. We again had excellent customer retention rates in the high nineties, and we signed AUD 2 billion of annualized new customers. This means that our corporate business is a materially larger business than pre-pandemic. All of our four regions have seen significant growth since 2019 , and our global corporate business is now 37% larger, and this is in a marketplace that we estimate is around 80% of pre-COVID levels. We continue to grow by growing to win.
This is our strategy about winning and retaining customers through organic growth. Our excellent retention rates in both brands and our very strong pipelines in both brands mean that we continue to win and onboard and welcome new customers. The future pipeline in both brands is also looking very strong. In SME, in particular, we've invested heavily in our U.S. business, where we see significant growth opportunities, and that includes investing with boots on the ground in major cities such as New York, L.A., and Chicago. We've also focused on generating new revenue streams by solving further problems for customers in areas such as software sales, consulting, payments, and meetings and events. Our strategy of productive operations, which is really about improving both our customer experience and enabling us to achieve better economies and scale as we grow, is underway. It focuses on three key areas.
Firstly, the digitalization and standardization of our operations. So building one single global operating system for both brands, enabling our customers to self-serve more easily and more readily, and giving access, greater access to content via the right channels to our customers at all times. I'm pleased to say that we're already seeing some benefits of the investment in productive operations, and we achieved our 11% transaction volume growth this year, with 5% fewer staff in June 2024 than we had in June 2023. This means that customers are self-serving more, and our business is becoming more productive. We continue to focus on rolling out productive operations, and the whole program will continue throughout this financial year and into the next one, and we hope to see continual productivity gains as the program continues.
With the mass adoption of Melon and FCM platform being a key strategy of ours, I'm very pleased to say that today, over 95% of FCM customers are now using FCM platform, and all new customers go straight onto the FCM platform. Melon, which is live in our three Corporate Traveller northern hemisphere markets, the U.S., Canada, and United Kingdom, is our fastest-growing product in the brand. We've seen over 340% growth in Melon transactions this year, and today, over 40% of our online transactions in these three markets are on Melon. We expect that rate of adoption to continue, and in fact, to grow this coming year. Productive operations, both our customer-facing solutions and our consultant-facing solutions, are partly powered by AI.
And our AI center of excellence continues to focus on improving productivity, improving the customer experience, and generating increased revenue for our business. We now have hundreds of thousands of transactions that are impacted and improved using AI. We've automated thousands of hours of agent time, and we now, through our FCM extension product, which is an element of part of the FCM platform, we're seeing new revenue generated by solving customer problems using AI. Our strategy remains consistent moving into next year, and our key drivers remain the same. Continued growth through high customer retention and organic sales through our Grow to Win strategy. Making sure productive operations continues to be rolled out to improve customer self-service, to improve automation and digital solutions, and to improve greater content access to our customers.
Achieving cost of scale benefits and making sure customers self-serve online, which really improves our cost per transaction numbers, and continue to focus on revenue generation through margin improvements. So that's the summary of the corporate business, and I'll now hand over to James to give you an update on leisure.
Thank you, Chris, and hi, everyone. I'm delighted to share that our leisure division has delivered its best performance in a decade, and today, I'll provide an overview of the business performance, strategic direction, and how we're positioned to grow, um, into the future, so on slide 25, you'll see an overview of our trusted portfolio brands, which really cater to a wide range of customer segments, from mass market to luxury, specialist travel, and through to an independent agent offering, and a shout-out to the Flight Centre brand, who were awarded the most trusted travel agent in a recent study by Roy Morgan this year. This diversification sets us apart by providing the widest range of products to our customers, offering unmatched access to our suppliers, and a significant career possibilities for our people.
We believe that this customer-centric approach, combined with our scalable business models, are driving growth and profitability into the future. And each of the categories on the screen there show that we are exceeding one billion in TTV in sales, which really demonstrate that we've proven our ability to adapt, to innovate, and to grow. And the luxury, independent, and specialist categories, they now account for 45% of our global leisure TTV, which is a significant increase from 33% in FY 2019, demonstrating strong growth in these attractive segments. Over 800 million in TTV alone was generated from a range of start-up businesses and products that are less than two years old, such as the Link Travel Group in the independent division, Travel Money's wholesale operations, Cruisea bout, My Cruises touring in the specialist division, and an anywhere to anywhere product offering on flightcentre.com.
We continue to focus on cost efficiency and productivity, and this is evidenced in Australia, where the second half TTV in the last year was greater than the same period in 2019, with less than half the network. So this really highlights that we have this great ability now to do a lot more with less, driving higher sales per employee and per store, thanks to our efficient technology and vastly improved employee retention, which now holds at 75%. On slide 27, it illustrates the business model mix and the shifts that are happening, whereby 15% of our sales, or AUD 1.7 billion, is coming from our online channels, and 16% it continues to come from the independent division at AUD 1.8 billion.
On slide 28, you'll see a scorecard of our performance, and we're very happy to report, as you can see, that TTV is up 10% and an excellent result in our revenue margin by continuing to focus on this, has seen a 110 basis points lift, largely attributed to growth in components and all the strategic initiatives that we've been focusing on in this space. What's very pleasing to see is an 80 basis point lift in underlying PBT margin, and that we've had six consecutive months of greater than 2% PBT margin in the second half, all while still achieving solid NPS results and great repeat customer scores. Onward to slide 29, we showcase our strategic direction and our big moves, and the focus here in leisure, number one, is to continue to differentiate Flight Centre with omni-channel capabilities.
Now, we're making substantial inroads and improvements in this space, particularly in our app, online platforms, and in-store assets, which are essential for engagement with today's tech-savvy travelers. Our app alone is seeing over 53,000 downloads per month, and we've seen a 13% growth in bookings year- on- year, while scoring 4.8 in the App Store, which is a great result. We're rolling out digital quotes, digital itineraries, and these really boost our productivity further, and they enhance upsell capabilities with our customers. Just like corporate, we're trialing several AI initiatives and machine learning technologies, and these are really designed to actually test demand forecasting for us, and focus on a range of propensity purchase modeling scenarios that will allow us to figure out opportunity when a customer is most likely to book.
The result of this is a more personalized customer experience, which is driving conversion and satisfaction, and combined with our people's expertise, which has been famous for deals and holidays, will certainly uplift future sales. You can see more details on this on slide 31-33 , which will help you understand some of the positioning in this space. Our number two big move is about the luxury travel market, and we expect significant growth in this area as we scale the Scott Dunn business and also Travel Associates here in Australia and New Zealand. Both businesses offer one-of-a-kind holidays that are highly curated with experts who are in the know, understand detail, and create inspiring holidays. This segment for us is really quite lucrative. It's highly defensible.
We sell a lot more components per booking, and it now accounts for about 10% of our TTV and leisure, but about 27% of profits, and a shout-out to Travel Associates who have had a record year, and I've included a slide in the pack so you can get a feel for some of the activations we do in luxury travel to try and boost sales and attract more customers. Scott Dunn, we reported on quite a lot, and I mentioned at the half year about opening up our business in New York on the East Coast. The U.S. sales have grown 12% year- on- year, and the mix of customers coming from the East Coast now has grown from 29% of our customer base in FY 2023 to 36% last year. The independent agent network continues to grow rapidly for us.
We've built an ecosystem here that is attracting larger agencies, and this is all about offering market-leading content, products, and commercials to our customers. We announced the launch of the Envoyage brand, and it's rolling out successfully now across our five global markets. While Australia is actually the largest market, we're actually seeing really great signs in the US, which is the first country to launch the Envoyage business earlier this year. Number four big move for us is about doubling our cruise and touring sales in the coming years with all the investments that we've made in this growth segment. So we're really aiming to leverage our existing brands in this space, and of course, we will be on the lookout for potential acquisitions here as well.
Collectively, the Flight Centre brand, Travel Associates, Ignite, and Cruisea bout are delivering sales in excess of 25% growth alone in this category year on year. Ignite, the successful business that we bought in 2019, is a great success story. Growth in this area in cruise and touring alone is up 56% year on year, and we're really gaining pace. We announced the opening of the Cruisea bout business, and we've got 3 locations open now, with 6 in the pipeline. What's really fueling this growth is also the investment in our people and their expertise. The Flight Centre Travel Group is now the largest cruise line industry association-accredited business for training our staff.
Number five is all about a relentless focus on customer loyalty, and this is not just about maintaining high NPS scores. It's about creating repeat customers that will drive long-term sustainable growth, while also gaining new customers through high referrals and investing in a range of different loyalty initiatives. So moving on to our key drivers of growth. To call out a few areas of focus here, the key for us is to continue to actually scale our winning models, because we believe this will be the cornerstone of reaching more customers. We aim to expand our physical network further, grow our talent base of sales staff, along with continuing to grow our independent contractors to actually drive top-line growth.
In addition to this, product differentiation will be key, and we're looking to launch some new product lines that we believe will add increased value to our customers, such as the Flight Centre Bundle and Stay positioning, which is launching in September. We're also focusing on ancillary products, and the Captain's Pack now is one that is attaching at 65% globally, while also making a difference to the local communities with our partnership with Reforest. We roll out a new global insurance contract later this year, and we expect this to provide greater value to our customers while also growing our margins. So you can see a range of these initiatives on the following slides through to 37, 38, which will illustrate a lot of these points.
In conclusion, as we close out FY 2025, I just want to reiterate that we're really proud of the strongest performance that we've had in a decade, which shows great resilience, focus, and growth. But looking forward, we're really committed to innovation, efficiency, and excellent customer loyalty. Combined with our strong financial performance, gives us great confidence in our ability to grow and deliver sustained value to our customers and shareholders. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all of our team for their hard work and dedication, and to our investors for their continued support. I'll now hand over to Skroo.
Thank you, JK. That was very exciting, I must say. Yeah, as Adam did mention, we're targeting that sustainable 2% margin. It's aspirational, as we've said many times, but the results are moving towards this over a period of time. Profitable growth is a priority in the post-COVID era, after a five-year period of solid but basic profitless TTV expansion pre-pandemic. For example, our TTV increased almost 50% between 2014 and 2019, but our profit basically stagnated during that time at around AUD 350 million-AUD 370 million. Our focus is on achieving that 2% margin target within the stretched timeframe. It will not be to the business's long-term detriment, as Adam said, long-term value creation is the ongoing priority.
We'll continue to invest in key growth drivers, specifically our people, which is obviously, as everyone, our most valuable asset. Retention, as you heard, has been strong post-COVID, and we were recently recognized as a great place to work in 25 countries. Our sales network is established, emerging, and startup brands and channels. Our products and systems to further enhance productivity and improve customer experience. We expect to spend also about AUD 100 million on CapEx during 2025, weighted towards tech systems and obviously opening a certain number of new shops and teams in corporate. This will see further investment in key projects, corporate productive operations and platforms, as you heard from Chris. Measures on omnichannel enhancements, HRIS, which is a human resources system, and TP Connects on airfare aggregation.
In terms of market conditions, cost of living pressures have curbed discretionary spending in some sectors, but generally, travel has done okay. The market continues to grow year on year. We think it will be back to a normal 4%-5% growth rate from this year. It's also a highly resilient sector historically, generally about a 6% CAGR in Australian short-term resident departures over the four-year period, pre-COVID. Rapid rebounds, globally, the industry has regained its growth trajectory fairly quickly after major downturns, Gulf War, 9/11 , GFC. While there are costs of living pressures, there are also some potential tailwinds, and these include higher interest rates, which helps to fuel strong demand among the older demographics. Potentially, this will deliver higher returns on Flight Centre's large global cash and investment portfolio as well. Also, low unemployment generally applies across most key markets.
A high percentage of the population sits within the traveling class, and if they choose to prioritize travel, they generally have the money to take off. Airfare deflation is another positive for us. International travel is again becoming more affordable, particularly in Australia, and stimulates volume growth. We had 18% growth in international tickets in Australia in July 2024 versus July 2023, with a 4% decline in average fares. Also, overseas holidays are now becoming more affordable for families and other demographics. This also delivers another potential boost to corporate travel activity as budgets start to extend further. I'll mention the Turner Index. This is our traditional measure of airfare affordability. It compares the headline return London airfares to Sydney with average wages.
As you may recall, the first flight to London that we measured, 1947, with Qantas, cost the equivalent of one and a half years' average wage. Affordability increases significantly over ensuing years, and is down to about three days just before COVID, and it's now down to about four days as inflation starts to kick in. We believe we're well placed to capitalize on opportunities. We, for example, we have a long track record of growth. We're a diversified business, as you heard before, with strong customer value propositions across our brand portfolio. This has driven ongoing TTV growth. In the last 42 years, we've delivered 37 years of record TTV, and those five years we missed out includes five COVID-related misses from financial year 2020 to 2023. Leisure and corporate business is achieving their strategic objectives.
You've heard JK and Chris on this. Our corporate business is materially larger than pre-COVID and targeting significant productivity gains to drive stronger bottom-line growth in FCM in particular. With a more productive, more efficient, and more profitable leisure business, with FCB delivering stronger profits and our Horizon Two brands driving TTV growth. We aim to outpace overall market growth in both the leisure and the corporate sectors and deliver further margin improvement. We believe we're operating in a growth market. We currently expect normal travel patterns to return, which is about 4%-5% market growth annually, broadly in line with IATA's long-term projection of that 4% compounding annual growth in passenger demand globally for the 2023 to [2043] . There are positive lead indicators among leisure and corporate clients.
In that, and, for example, 70% of corporate customers expect to travel the same or more during financial year 2025. Almost 90% of Flight Centre brand customers expect to travel internationally within the next 12 months. Our balance sheet strength, we are a strong cash position to reinvest in the business and or target new M&A opportunities. Ongoing organic growth focus, we'll consider M&A opportunities, our new products or systems to enhance our productivity or our customer experience and new revenue streams in specialist travel sectors. So far, we've had a positive start to 2025. Initial trading for 2025 is positive, with both TTV and PBT exceeding the same period in 2024. However, it is too early to read too much into these early results.
2025 TTV growth rate is likely to be adversely impacted by the ongoing airfare price deflation, which in turn is likely, hopefully, we believe, to stimulate volume growth. We will give some 2025 guidance at the AGM in November. Our long-term priorities. No secrets here, but making sure we have the right people on the bus, and they are positive, productive, motivated, incentivized people, workforce and culture with business P&L accountability, and ownership. Product, having a great range of quality, curated, personalized product, as well as mass product and great service in travel and travel-related fields. Our famous brands, creating and enhancing our famous brands are universally, digitally, and physically available to customers. Working with our customers and our suppliers, having satisfied customers, great relationships with supportive suppliers, we consider of paramount importance. Also productivity in, costs out.
Continue developing state-of-the-art global tech products, where possible, make us more productive and give our customers and our suppliers what they need. Heavy focus is on cost reduction during 2024, second half. And growth, we encourage the start of new businesses, which we call Horizon Three businesses, and grow our Horizon Two businesses to become Horizon One. That's all I've got to say, over to Adam.
Yeah, we'll now take questions. Thanks.
Thank you. If you wish to ask a question, please press star then one on your telephone, and wait for your name to be announced. If you wish to cancel your request, please press star then two. If you're on a speakerphone, please pick up the handset before asking your question. Our first question will come from Ben Gilbert with Jarden. Please go ahead.
Good morning, team. Just one from me. Adam, how should we think about the other costs into fiscal 2025? So presumably, obviously, it's in the parent operating business. Just in terms of what's coming out of that, how we think about that delta from 2024 to 2025, that hundred should come down a reasonable amount, right?
Yeah. So, the 100 was FY 2023. We brought it down to 79 this year. That, that's-
Yeah, sorry, sorry, 79. Yep.
Yeah, yeah. So look, the, the head office costs themselves will probably remain relatively flat around that 60 million mark. But the operating businesses should see further improvements. So we expect TPConnects to be under AUD 10 million loss in this segment. Part of that is gonna be allocated out into the corporate and leisure business as they start to get the benefit of TP Connects coming through into their results. And part of it will be external revenue actually reducing at that level as well. So we'd expect that to be under 10. TTJ and Infinity, which is a just under AUD 6 million loss, we also expect that to improve. Infinity is now part of JK's world and is supporting the Envoyage business, so the independent agents and agencies there.
So again, that loss should come out of there as well. So, you know, there should be a bit of ups and downs outside of that as well. You know, we do expect, you know, the other operating business to improve a little bit going forward. But they're probably the two big ones that should lead to further improvement in that other sector, other division.
I think, and second question around corporate. So you've got two build of wins you've talked to. What's the net win number? Appreciate these corporate contracts take a while to ramp up. You obviously had a pretty strong start to the year, but it's a pretty material number, obviously, when you [plonk AUD 2 billion on your] base for this year. I'm just trying to think about how we think. Appreciate you not giving guidance, but you could be thinking still high single or low digit, even with deflation pretty easily for corporate based on those wins alone.
Yeah. So you are correct. I think with the larger contracted customers, the FCM customers, it does take a while for those wins to ramp up. We go through an implementation process, which can take a couple of months, even up to nine months in some cases with complex global ones. I think the real opportunity for growth is the SME space. With SME, we have to fight to make sure those wins turn into traded transactions, so traded revenue. And that's because the SME customers tend to have a non-compulsory booking program. That's why we have a different brand to look after. So a lot of that marketing and customer relationship management is about getting those transactions to actually trade with SME.
We have a much higher trade ratio to win with FCM, but it does take longer to come on board. Of the AUD 2 billion, we'd expect certainly well over half of it to trade in the following 12 months. The better job we do with implementation, the better job we do with getting SME customers to trade, the faster the larger that trade volume is.
Okay, just final one quickly for me. I think you guys mentioned, you talked about six months of consecutive margins above 2% in leisure, but the second half is typically or historically been seasonally higher for margins. We shouldn't necessarily read that you've got a more balanced seasonality, 'cause first half should still be seasonally weaker for leisure PBT margins, right?
Yeah, that's right, Ben. I mean, we've still got that level of seasonality to come through. Obviously, that second half was really positive for JK and the team, which is fantastic. But yeah, that's right. You should expect those margins to be reduced as we go through this first half of 2025. But we would be looking for improvement, obviously, on the first half of 2024.
Fantastic. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.
The next question will come from Michael Simotas with Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Good morning, team. Just sort of thinking about your cost margins and revenue margins across leisure and corporate, can you give us a little bit of help to understand the impact of airfare deflation on both of those things across the divisions? I know pulling out a specific number is probably difficult, but just how we should think about the relative movement given the continuation of deflation, and maybe some commentary on how deflation impacted on those two metrics in the second half.
Yeah. So from a corporate perspective, Michael, it doesn't make any difference to cost margin, quite simply, but it can slightly improve revenue margin, because in many cases in corporate, we have a fixed fee model for a transaction. So if the transaction value goes down, the fee margin as a percentage increases. So it may have had a minor impact in the second half, but we don't think it's material at this stage.
Why doesn't it impact the cost margin, given you're sort of measuring that as a percentage of TTV?
Because it still costs us the same to transact. So the margin may improve, so the cost margin may improve slightly on that. But to be honest, the main thing driving our cost margin improvements this year is not really airfare deflation, it's productivity gains. So you will see an improvement in cost margin that's largely been driven by automation, by digitization, by and reduction in staff numbers. So we don't really consider what we've seen in airfare deflation being the driver of cost margin reduction.
I thought it might have actually been a headwind to your cost.
Yeah, I think, Michael, I think on, when you-- from a mathematical perspective, you're exactly right. With the costs, with deflation coming through, impacting on TTV and reducing TTV, it would, on paper, increase cost margin there. But as Chris said, I think that the benefit that we're seeing more than-- is more than offsetting that through productivity coming through. And you know, again, you see a bit of an improvement in the revenue margin, from a similar perspective. But I think, you know, if you look at broadly that impact of deflation, a lot of that was really coming out of the Australian...
When we talk about 13%, a lot of that's coming out of the Australian market, and so there's probably more of an impact on the leisure side of things. JK, do you want to talk to that?
Yeah. Hi, Michael. Just from a leisure perspective, the math certainly do have that impact, and certainly if airfares come down, you would expect two things to happen. One is our cost margin would go up, and also our revenue margin would come down because of the linkage with revenue to the cost of sale. However, the upside with it, with airfares coming down, it actually does enable us to be able to sell more products that have higher margins in there. And you can definitely see with some of the stats that I've shared, that we have had a lot of growth in components and product lines like cruise and touring. We're selling a lot more of those now.
We're selling about 25% more year- on- year, and they naturally then drive up our Revenue Margin because the product mix shifts. So while it actually has some impact, it allows us to be able to sell higher margin products. And on the cost front, certainly, if we have a lot of cost, fixed costs within the business, but we do peg some particular costs to actually what's happening with sales as well. But our real focus is just making sure that we're a much more efficient business, regardless of what the cost margin looks like and what the price of airfares are doing, it's just making sure that we can maintain productivity and efficiency.
Yep, that's good color. And then second one, the tiered-based bonuses that you've got in the supply side of the business now, are they related to airfares or volumes?
Yeah, Michael, Greg here. Yeah, look, they're quite mixed across our supply chain. We have some that are linked to revenue, some that actually factor in what prices the airfares are doing, and some that actually linked to coupon and tax numbers. So it's quite varied around the globe at the moment.
Okay.
So there's not a one-size-fits-all in that approach. But the encouraging thing that we're starting to see, which has impacted obviously on the increase in margin across all our categories in supply this year, has just really been capacity returning. And we are starting to see some really good positive momentum, to bring back growth tiers and bonuses and different structures of deals.
... moving forward. So I'd say, actually end of the year quite well.
Okay, great. If I could just squeeze one more quick one in. Just how we should think about cost of touring sales, so sort of the other bit that is between your revenue margin and your PBT ex the cost margin. It might be the same question that Ben asked earlier on other, but should we expect that cost of sales to sort of start to normalize or come down a little bit? Because it has increased a little bit over the last couple of periods.
Yeah, I mean, we certainly expect to see touring continue to grow, so I'd say cost of touring should continue to grow a bit there as well. I mean, the critical thing with that really is the gross margin on that we're holding. So, you know, there's probably a positive if you're seeing that grow, the revenue that we're getting is gonna be growing at a higher rate as well. So it'll start to normalize, certainly. I mean, we've certainly had a year or two where it's really jumped back, but it will continue to grow as that business continues to recover and grow as well.
Yep. All right. Thank you very much.
Thanks, sir.
The next question will come from Sam Seow with Citi. Please go ahead.
Morning, guys. Thanks for taking the question. Just quickly in the U.S., you had some NDC changes there. Just wanna understand how much of a drag that was to your second half corporate PBT margins?
Yeah, it did have a bit of an impact initially. Our priority throughout that period was to make sure our customers had access to content and got the best pricing, so we did lose some efficiency gains in U.S. corporate with last six months, but the good news is, by the end of the year, we've rectified most of that situation with the supply chain, so that led to an improvement again, but yeah, our priority was looking after customers that period, so we accepted some productivity losses for a short period. But I'm pleased to say we have resolved that situation now.
Got it. And then if you were to adjust for those kind of changes, which you've now fixed, any kind of color on what you think your second half kind of corporate PBT margin would look like?
I don't think it was material really. It didn't have that much of an impact over the period. So, it was more of a bit of a frustration for our people. I don't think it had a huge impact, so I'd say largely immaterial.
Got it. And then previously, I think you've outlined a lot of FCM wins that are in the first year, which were unprofitable as you onboarded. Any chance you can kind of quantify that drag in FY 2024 and perhaps the impact of a reversal, as, you know, onboarding returns to more normalized levels?
You can see that, you know, our profitability has improved this year, and that's partly because more of our volume is entering its second or third year of a contract, because the wins obviously have been cumulative over the last few years. I'd almost like to normalize now. So I think our rate of wins now, which was exceptionally high during COVID, as a percentage of our overall volume, is now normalized. So I think moving forward, you should see gradual improvement in FCM profit margins because more of its volume is in later years of contract. So we expect to see that continuing to improve from now on.
Okay, that's helpful. And then just, on the return of back-end structures, could you perhaps frame up or quantify, you know, what that would look like, in FY 2025 versus kind of FY 2024?
Yeah, Sam. Look, we haven't seen any major change. I referred to, you know, in previous commentary about different buckets of airline carriers and the challenge to move some of the dominant carriers into a bucket two and three, to look at more traditional structures. I think you alluded to, you know, some challenges in the Americas there with one of the carriers there. Thankfully, they're moving out of that bucket one now into a bucket two and three, which is positive. Traditional back-end structures seem to just be progressing quite well. The big drive for us, which we're leading, or my talented procurement team are leading, is just how do we act on the front foot with a lot of our supply chain and put dealing models in place?
We have some really good tracking now, just in terms of how load factors are going on certain airlines, where some of the weak periods are going. So instead of waiting for them to come to us and ask for, you know, some assistance, we're actually leading that charge a lot more. Booking structures across hotel and car, cruise and touring are all very, very stable at the moment. The cruise side of things, and JK did his update before about one of the big moves about dominating in that cruise space. We've actually launched a B2B wholesale model in the cruise space down here in Australia, being Cruise HQ, and that's deepened access to additional margin in that cruise category as well, which is obviously having a positive impact on overall revenue margin.
The other piece that's in there as well, from a back-end and front-end contract margin perspective, is that we're making some changes, moving away from Cover-More, particularly for our leisure business and across the European assistance, which will start in October and November this year. A lot of work happening there, but that is about broadening our customer offering, but also increasing our attachment in the leisure business, and we've got some pretty aggressive goals in that space.
Thanks. That's really helpful. And then just one last, if I can. That 18% growth in international tickets in July 2024, any reason to think that your business isn't keeping up with that, if not doing better than that, in terms of exit rates?
Sorry, mate, I didn't catch the start of that, Sam, but the 18% is July?
... Yeah, so that's not the exit rate. The exit rate is more like 10%, 11% volume growth in Australia, I think, from memory. The 18% is July. That's just one month's result. You know, it's probably pretty premature to extrapolate that.
All right. That's helpful. Thanks, guys.
Thanks, sir.
The next question will come from Lisa Dang with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Hi, can you hear me?
Yep.
Yep.
Oh, hi. Just two questions on my front. One is actually on the corporate SME side of the business. We've talked a lot about FCM, and that continues to be very strong. But can you give us color on how the SME business is traveling? And then also, part of the 2.0 new wins, how much of that was SME, please?
Hi, Lisa. Yeah, so our SME business corporate travel is actually going very well, so it's in six markets. The main growth markets for us are the USA, which is by far the largest opportunity, and we're really focusing on growing share there of that market, and it's going very strongly. CT represents roughly 50% of the win, so we're about half, half between the two brands. The advantage of SME for us is customers trade faster, so we can get them implemented faster. We've invested a lot, particularly in the Northern Hemisphere, three markets on our Melon product, which is our new technology product, and we're seeing a lot of productivity gains, in particular in that brand, because the rate of automation and digital product used by customers is increasing rapidly as well.
We're actually very pleased with the performance there. The reason FCM gets sort of mentioned is we tend to have more well-known customers, more famous customers, larger companies in that brand, but actually, CT has more customers in its brand. So it's a very important part of our business.
And, and-
Lisa. Oh, sorry, Lisa. I was just gonna say also, Corporate Traveller was record profit last year.
Record TTV, record profit.
Yeah.
Very strong performance from the SME part of the business.
Part of the 2 billion new wins?
It's about 50/50, so it's about half, half between the two.
Got it. And then also the second question would be, in terms of the competitive, market or competitive landscape. Obviously, in the U.S., we're seeing, you know, the potential, Amex GBT, and CWT, acquisition, as well as, you know, at the lower end, smaller end of town, there's a lot of, you know, new start-ups leveraging tech. Like, how are we thinking about where we're able to continue to gain market share, and what will be driving that, you know, key competitive advantage?
Yeah, so let's divide it into two. I think on the large market space with the Amex, CWT coming together, look, we see it as a good... We're actually very pleased because we want to see strong competitors in our segment. It means the category is doing well. And obviously, from an FCM perspective, the fewer players in that large market space, the more likely that FCM gets invited to attend to tender . So with fewer competitors, the FCM brand grows stronger, and we're seeing that already. So that's good news. On the start-up and disruption space on technology, look, that's why we've invested in Melon. So we are bringing together a product to market. We have brought a product to market, which absolutely goes head to head with some of those digital disruptors, and we think does very well against them.
Our position is slightly different from theirs. We very much have an equal digital product, but we also have that backed up by fantastic people, and the two are linked. We really do think we have a differentiated position. That's why both brands are performing well.
Got it. Thank you.
The next question will come from Ben Wilson with Wilsons Advisory. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Morning, gentlemen. Just back on revenue margins for the leisure statement, just wondering if you can comment on, I guess, the likely outlook for full year margins next year. Appreciate the seasonality in first half or second half. I guess any increase or decrease in the overall margin may depend on the relative growth rates of, say, your luxury category, which is high margin, versus independent, which is lower. I guess, can you comment on which category you see growing faster, or any other things that will impact margins?
Yeah. Well, you are right that a lot will depend on the mix of sales that shows up because of the vast range of margins that exist in each of the categories. But each of the categories are targeting revenue margin growth, probably not to the same extent as what's happened year- on- year, but we do expect to continue to see revenue margin growth coming through, largely attributed to a lot of the initiatives that are in place, and that will be things such as continuing to grow the number of components. A large focus on actually growing our ancillary products as well. And Greg touched on insurance as a new product line that's coming in.
But also looking to increase things like the Captain's Pack, our purple ribbon fees, which are basically fees that our customers pay to us for service-type products, so the more attachment we can get in that and the greater mix we can get in higher margin products, we'll see an overall uplift and a continuous growth in revenue margin.
Thanks, Adam. And then just on the corporate side of things, just wanted to get a sense of how you see conditions globally at the moment. You mentioned a bit of a slowing climate late in the second half, but then transactions were up 11% in July. And while, I guess, versus PCP, that's a year ago, there's a, you know, little bit of COVID recovery from last year to now. I imagine-
... That implies that conditions have picked up a little bit to start the new financial year. Which I guess would be consistent with the, you know, what were pretty upbeat positive outlook statements from, you know, the offshore corporate-related peers in the June quarter results.
Yeah, look, I think we're, you know, we're broadly happy with the outlook. July was. We're very pleased with July. It carried on the trend that we've seen throughout the second half of last year. So I think the one thing I, I'll remind everyone, one thing we've said for a long time is irrespective of how much customers are traveling, our view has always been to having a very aggressive marketing and sales strategy to make sure we win market share. So if that looks good, that's great. We get better headwinds, sorry, better tailwinds. But I think we're always focused on growing share, not just relying on customers traveling more. And at the moment, we're very pleased where we sit in the market.
Thanks, Chris.
The next question will come from John O'Shea with Ord Minnett. Please go ahead.
Morning, team. Can you hear me okay?
Yes, mate.
No worries. Thanks very much. I thought I was early in the queue this year, but I think you have to get in the queue about 7:00 A.M. these days.
Some people dialed in yesterday, mate.
That's it. I reckon they must have dialed in last year. Well done, the result, first of all, guys. Excellent outcome for all of you. A couple of questions from me, given most of them have already been asked. I'll just keep it pretty brief. First one is on the revenue margin in corporate. You've mentioned what the leisure side, and you mentioned before, Chris, about some of the FCM clients, reasonably well progressed in terms of down that track. Are you expecting that mix impact to have a negative, positive impact this year? And how would you-- how should we think about the outlook for revenue margins for the corporate business in 2025?
Hi, John. Yeah, look, we're pleased with where the revenue margin sits now. The two things I think that are likely to change it for the positive is, one, CT growing at a faster pace than FCM. So if that happens, revenue margin naturally improves because the SME business trades at a higher revenue margin.
Yep.
The second thing will be the growth in new revenue streams. So we've had a real focus this year on things like software sales, consultancy, meetings and events, and all of those things contribute on higher revenue margins. So we're really continuing to push those in both brands, actually, not, not just FCM. So if that works, revenue margin will continue to creep up. But we are happy with that actually. We think our revenue margin-
Mm-hmm
has settled at a really good level now, and what we're focusing on is decreasing cost margin through productivity gains while adding volume. But there is, saying that, an opportunity to improve if we get those first two things right.
Yep. Thank you, mate. And the second bit sort of follows on from that is all of that work that our friend Melissa is doing in relation to the automation, AI, all of that improving in the processing. Just a bit of an update on how that's all going. Are you happy with the sort of run rate numbers you're seeing? And how that's how we should think about that in terms of the impact on FY 2025 costs?
Sure. I'm glad Melissa is your friend, too, John. That's good.
No, she's-
Yeah
... everybody's friend, I think, mate.
She is. She's doing a great job, and it's not just her. She's leading a fantastic global team working on this initiative. And to remind everyone, the key thing with productive operations is us transforming the operating model to a single operating, global operating system without customers noticing. That's the aim. So we're swapping out all bits of software, processes, introducing automation. It is improving things already, even though the project, and Mel's very clear on stressing this, it's very early days in the project. But as you can see from our results, we've already seen pretty good productivity gains this year, and we expect that to continue into the new 2025 financial year and into 2026.
So our aim is to get more automation, customers self-serving more on both Melon and FCM Platform, and in making access to content, particularly on things like NDC, much more streamlined for our customers and our people. So yeah, we do see productivity continuing to improve both next two years, certainly.
Thank you for that. And final one from me, JK. I just thought I'd better ask you a question, mate. The bricks-and-mortar trend of bricks and mortar versus online, anything you've seen there in terms of trends globally across the business that you think is worthy of comment or no real change or anything there that you wanted to throw in, mate?
In what sense, related to-
Co-
customer engagement, customers still accessing our stores?
Yeah, just general trends as to whether you've seen people moving away, towards online versus bricks and mortar or any, any general trends that you think have, have changed there in any way?
Nothing significant to report, John, but there's definitely probably one thing to note is that as we increase our investment in technology solutions, our customers are engaging across a lot more channels, and you can probably see in the pack that we've got a nice growth in our app downloads as well.
Yep. Yep.
So you can see customers are really working across multiple channels, and it's really choosing what channel they use for certain types of bookings. So a lot of the low-value stuff is generally done online, but a lot of complex travel is still in person, in store.
John, just further to what JK is saying, some of the growth in leisure is coming from a lot of different channels, but they're not all online channels either.
Mm.
You know, someone like Ignite has grown really strongly. Cruise and tour sales, as JK said, grew at about 25% year- on- year, and most of those are done through the shops.
... Travel Money's grown really well, and that's obviously an offline offering predominantly. So it's a bit of a mix.
Yeah. And actually, it's interesting now, you can see that where, when a customer trusts a brand and they've got history with them, they're more prepared to book a higher value transaction online. And since we've released more capabilities, such as the booking of cruises online, we've started to see the average basket size go up more in that space. And that's just where customers have the confidence about spending a fair amount in a certain channel.
Thanks very much, guys, and good job.
Thank you.
Thanks, mate.
The next question will come from Wei-Weng Chen with RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Hi, guys. Yeah, just a couple from me, too. So you had some pretty big seasonality this year. How do we think about seasonality in FY 2025? Will it be less extreme than this year?
No, I don't think so. I think we're still trying to work that out, in fairness, coming out of the COVID era. But you know, I think we only had, from a profit perspective, I think we had about a one-third, two-thirds weighting. And you know, from a TTV perspective, yeah, obviously, the weighting wasn't quite as strong. But my guess is that we're probably seeing the sort of seasonality in FY 2024 that we're likely to see in FY 2025. So I'm not aware of anything that's gonna fundamentally change. I don't know, Chris or JK, if you guys are seeing anything.
No, the only thing we've noticed, which seems to be setting as a trend, is for business travel, people finishing their business travel earlier in December. So, which you know used to get probably another week, but then we tend to get more in November and January. So the actual travel happens, but the seasonality has changed ever so slightly, and that's happened two years in a row now, so we think that might stay, but who knows? But overall, we don't see a massive change.
On the leisure front, I think we are pretty much back into normal seasonal behaviors from a customer standpoint. You'll also see a lot more things, like, with the supply chain coming out with a lot more early bird deals and everything, which is pretty much representative of seasonal behaviors, and they'll be coming out in the next few weeks.
Yeah, okay. No, thanks for that. And then I guess the other question from me was, you guys took a few one-offs and closures this year. Is there anything to be aware of, that's maybe on watch for FY 2025?
Look, I think the primary thing I'd call out there, as you look ahead to next year, the convertibles, obviously, the amortization will continue to be stripped out of the underlying. If we do any more buybacks, which is our stated intent, then there will be some gains and losses on those buybacks as there was this year. And again, that'll be taken below the line out of our normalized results. So from a convertible, you'll see that on, I'm sure, heading into 2025. The only other one that you will continue to see there, at least for 2025, will be some of those productive ops costs that we strip out. That should be less than AUD 10 million in 2025.
And again, it'll be a mixture of things, but there'll be a bit of system decommissioning and those sort of things that flow into that as well. So they're the only ones that at this point in time we're aware of that should flow through. There were a lot in the current year, but I actually look at that as a positive in some respects. It is an indicator of, you know, there's a lot of activity that we were going through in terms of reviewing a lot of businesses that were underperforming and actioning on those. So the closure of GOGO, the closure of Discova Central America, the restructure of Student Universe, you know, they were all good outcomes for us. But so I think that was what you're seeing in there at the moment.
You've also got in there a bit of lag in 2024 that won't repeat for some of those employee retention plans that we had coming through COVID. So they'll disappear out of there going forward as well. So it should be a lot cleaner as we move forward.
Yeah, okay. Thanks. And then just one clarification type question on revenue margins. So revenue margins have continued to improve, but they're still about one and a half percentage points below pre-COVID. I think you've previously kind of said, look, margins will ultimately be below pre-COVID. Now that we're kind of somewhere somewhat near historical levels, I guess, what's the view on how much below pre-COVID should we be thinking?
I'll start with that, but I'll, I might get the other guys to talk about it. I think the reality is that we do still believe that those revenue margins will stay below pre-COVID. We're not sort of putting a number per se on that at the moment, but I think what we're looking at now is there's been a fundamental shift in where the revenue margin is generated now versus pre-COVID. So, when you look at our total available margin that Greg talks to, you know, that's the important element for us rather than different components of it, and we are seeing a shift with that. And some of that's from customer rather than supplier as well.
So there's a different mix there, and also the mix of business will impact and mean that we're gonna have a lower margin versus pre-COVID, but again, our cost margin will be better. But that's a bit of an overview, but JK, from a leisure perspective, any thoughts there?
Yeah. Look, I think pre-COVID is a very different way to look at our business because we are no longer that same business from a leisure standpoint. If you look at the models that we have in the business, plus the diversity of categories that we play in, it's just not a comparable benchmark.
... Certainly, if you go into different brands and compare, now versus pre-COVID, you could look at it like that, but the overall mix is completely different. So if you look at our slide, one of the slides in there, about 40-odd percent of our sales is coming from new categories and business lines that just didn't exist. And then there's also a slide in the pack that speaks to the business model shift. So you can see channels like online growing rapidly, to about 15%, 16% of our business, plus the independent agent channel. And both of those channels have got significantly lower margins. But the most important message to note is that they've got much lower cost margins as well.
Wei-Weng, just also remember, too, pre-COVID, corporate was more like 38%-40% of TTV. It's now 50%, and it will be lower revenue margin. And as JK said, you might remember we had the previous margin targets. We were expecting revenue to come down, revenue margin to come down for the exact reason that JK was talking about, because the business mix in leisure was changing a little bit. So we weren't expecting it would ever get back to that sort of level. And we lost some commission, which Greg's guys have done a pretty good job of replacing, but not all of it. So there's a bit of movement there. But as I think Adam said at the start, cost margin is now materially different to what it was as well.
I think we're 130 basis points better off now than we were pre-COVID, and we still think there's some opportunity to improve on that.
Yeah, excellent. Very comprehensive. Thanks.
Thanks, sir.
The next question will come from Sophia Mulligan with Macquarie. Please go ahead.
Hey, guys, can you hear me?
Yep.
Yep.
Congratulations on the result, and thanks for taking my questions. Just a few quick ones around the balance sheet. You've paid off quite a significant amount of debt this year. Maybe, Adam, could you just talk to the expectations for 2025, paying down the convertibles and staying focused, and how we should be thinking around that?
Yeah, Sophia, certainly we have been focused on the balance sheet. We've during the course of the year, we paid down that debt by AUD 250 million. We paid off about AUD 50 million of bank overdraft as well. I think at the end of the financial year, we still had AUD 100 million in debt in that debt facility that was drawn. Subsequent to year-end, we've actually paid that down as well. As we look at the convertibles, we are certainly got a short term as well as that medium-term focus on buying back some of those convertibles.
As you know, we've got two lots of convertibles out there in the market, and we'll review both of those to make the best decision on how we approach that and which ones we target. But certainly, we'll be looking to be active in that capacity over the coming months.
That's great. Thanks. And on the CapEx side of things, you called out AUD 100 million guidance for this year. Could you speak through what proportion of that would be growth versus maintenance and how we should be thinking about longer-term CapEx expectations?
Yeah. So if you look over the last couple of years and, well, certainly last year and, and I think the year before, we were heading towards that AUD 100 million or just under AUD 100 million in CapEx. My expectation is for the next couple of years, we'd be sitting at around that level, and you're likely to see around 75% of that, give or take, being technology driven. And that'll be across both corporate, leisure, and, and in our supply division as well. And then there'll be an element which is growth in physical shops for our physical shop network through, through leisure. So, my view would be, as you, as you look out, at least for the next couple of years, I'd be expecting similar levels of CapEx.
That's great, and last one from me. Just on the underlying profit before tax margin by division, you've previously spoken to the leisure and corporate divisions needing to hit two and a half. I noticed in the deck, you've now said that's 2.3 . Is that lower just because you've removed more of it from the other division than you were expecting?
Yeah, we've done a lot of heavy lifting in that other division to take a bit of pressure off JK and Chris. But yeah, that's fundamentally it. It's you know, with the movement that we've seen in the other division, being able to hold our costs, getting our operating businesses back to you know, a reasonable level of profitability, reducing the impact of TP Connects, and in fact, putting you know, some of that into the divisions as well. That does bring down that other segment from you know, as you saw last year, AUD 100 million to you know, we would hope that our next focus on that is to get it to AUD 60 million or below.
So that then makes a difference in the blended rate that we're looking for from corporate and leisure. So, you know, it's really. That's really the driver behind it.
That's great. Thanks for taking my questions, and congratulations again on the results.
Thanks, Sophia.
This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Haydn Long for any closing remarks. Please go ahead, sir.
Thanks, Chuck. Thanks, everyone, for joining us. Hopefully, catch up with a lot of you over the next few days. Give us a call if there's anything that you need, and we'll try and get back to you as quickly as we can. But thank you very much.
Thank you, everyone.
Thank you.
Thanks, guys.
The conference is now concluded.
Thank you.
Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.