Earnings Call: H2 2021

Aug 26, 2021

Welcome to the Jumbo Interactive Limited FY 'twenty one Results Briefing Conference Call. All participants are in a listen only mode. There will be a presentation followed by a question and answer session. Followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. I'd now like to hand the call over to Mr. Mike Baburka, Founder and CEO. Please go ahead. Good morning, everyone. Today, as usual, I'm joined by our CFO, David Todd to present our full year results. I'll provide an overview of the results and tell you about the opportunities we see ahead, while Dave will provide a more detailed run through of the numbers. I'll then speak briefly about the conditional acquisition of Stride, which we announced this morning before wrapping up and moving to Q and A. Turning to the group results, and we reported a strong double digit growth across TTV revenue and underlying EBITDA. Despite fewer and lower value jackpots and the absence of a greater than $100,000,000 jackpot, Lottery retailing continues to deliver good growth With the increase in TTV predominantly driven by our SaaS segment as clients went live on the Powered by Jumbo platform. Revenue was up 17% and was balanced between Lottery Retailing and the Emerging SaaS and Managed Services segments. At the headline level, Lottery retailing revenue was up 9.6%, although after accounting for the transition of our Western Australian Customers to Lawrie West's wide label platform in December 2020, underlying revenue growth was 17%. This includes the transfer of around $30,000,000 of TTV at a revenue margin of around 20% to our SaaS segment at a margin of 9.5%. Underlying EBITDA was pleasingly up 13% despite the introduction of a 1.5% service fee Parable to TAVCORP on the subscription price of tickets and continued investment in the business. The lower underlying NPAT growth of 7% mainly reflects the impact of a higher amortization charge following the capitalization of the TAC Corp extension fee And lower interest revenue. Capital generation and cash conversion remained strong with operating cash flow up 24%. And the Board has declared a final fully franked ordinary dividend of $0.185 per share. COVID-nineteen has had a net positive impact on the FY 'twenty one results with the mobility restrictions supporting the purchase of tickets digitally. Moving to the next slide. This shows how we're building upon the operating model I first unveiled at our interim results back in February. Today, I'll highlight 1, we have moved from a 1 to a 3 operating segment, All underpinned by our proprietary technology platform and over 2 decades of lottery management expertise. Secondly, the significant opportunity for each of our segments, particularly for our merging SaaS and managed services segments. And thirdly, our SaaS business, which is focused on licensing the powered by Jumbo platform to government and charity lottery operators, while our managed services segment Assist charities that are not yet on do not yet operate a lottery. I also want to flag the conditional acquisition of Stride, which we announced today, which adds scale to our managed services segment and gives us a hold in the Canadian Charity Lottery market and there'll be more about this a bit later. Overall, it's been an important year for Jumbo With the successful transition to the new TABCorp agreement and the implementation of our new operating and organizational structure, We aim to build on this in FY 'twenty two as we invest in the business to ensure we have the right capabilities to capitalize on the growth runway ahead. Turning to Australia and our Lottery Retailing segment, I've summarized the key trends impacting the segment as follows. Number 1, online sales in Australia of lottery tickets increased by 4.8 percentage points to 32.8%. I also note that plans are underway to refresh the Oz Motto game and the changes are likely to be implemented late FY 2022. Secondly, while the jackpot sequence improved significantly in the second half with 23 Powerball OZLotto jackpots greater than or equal to $15,000,000 compared to just $15,000,000 in the first half, the total number of jackpots for the year was still slightly down on last year. And thirdly, additionally, the average value of large jackpots was down 21% with no jackpots above 100,000,000 On to the next chart. This chart of our Lottery sales performance over several years explains both the resilience Of the growth of our Lottery retailing business. You can see the steady growth achieved from small jackpots in the light blue And the boost we get from the large jackpots in dark blue. To reinforce this point, just 2 weeks ago, we sold the winning 80,000,000 Dollar Powerball ticket to a player in Victoria. We estimate that the total national sales for that draw alone Was up an impressive 16% compared to the previous $80,000,000 but we know that our sales for that lottery were up 32%. Additionally, 3 of the 13 Division II winners were jumbo players. And this 23% data point is another indicator of market share. What this demonstrates yet again is that we typically grow TTV and therefore market share far more emphatically during periods of large jackpots. And so it's no surprise that our share tends to subside in periods of large jackpots as was the case in the first half and rise During periods of high jackpots. Overall, our moving annual total TTV from Lottery Retailing has grown at a very healthy average Compound annual growth rate of 20% over the last 5 years. Moving now to our SaaS segment, Where we license our PBJ platform to customers nationally, including to ourselves at Oz Lotteries. FY 'twenty one A pivotal year as all 4 external clients in Australia went live on the platform. While it is still relatively early days, I've included some high level metrics on the bottom right hand side, outlining some of the benefits our clients have observed on the platform. I know that Lottery West went live on the platform in December 2020, and we have already seen some encouraging performance improvement. We now have around 880,000 active players in Australia and we finished the year with an annual run rate TTV of $132,000,000 based on Q4 results. We're working closely with our 1st international client, St. Helena Hospice To launch our market leading lottery platform in the first half of FY 'twenty two in the UK. I've added this next slide to highlight the global opportunity that exists for our SaaS business. The U. S. Government lottery sector represents the largest The pace of digital transformation in Lotteries has been slower than an online wagering space, which is not really surprising. However, as legislative changes continues and consumer demand for Lotteries gains traction, particularly as Lotteries seek to Sure that products remain relevant for the next generation of players who are more digitally savvy. We see a significant medium term opportunity for Jumbo to be the preferred partner The small to medium sized state government lottery program. We believe we have the technology and the lottery management expertise to deliver market leading growth. In the UK and Canada, we have prioritized the charity lottery sectors and continue to evaluate opportunities in these markets. Turning now to the managed services slide, where we provide lottery management services to charities that do not yet have a lottery. Our U. K. Business, GatherWell, continues to go from strength to strength, with TTV increasing at 26% per annum over the last 3 years. GatherWell continues to expand its reach with local government authorities in school now supporting over 10,000 good causes. We have leveraged Gatherworld's expertise and capabilities in launching managed services here in Australia with our foundation clients of Paralympics Australia and St. John's Ambulance Victoria, which went live this year. Today, we also announced the conditional acquisition of Stride And the chart at the bottom left of the slide provide a pro form a view of TTV and active customers. As you can see, the $122,000,000 in TTV, Stride adds significantly more scale to this segment. Moving to the next slide, it provides an overview of the managed services opportunity in the charitable giving sectors across the UK, Canada and Australia, as well as our Key priorities in these markets. Importantly, the total addressable market to managed services is much larger than SaaS As a lot more charities need managed services in addition to a software platform. COVID-nineteen has certainly amplified the trend towards Digital channels with Lotteries seeing an important source as for sustainable fundraising revenue. I'm optimistic that our Managed Services segment can capture more than its fair share of this substantial market over the medium to long term. With that, I'll now hand over to Dave to run through the financials. Thanks, Mark, and good morning, everyone. On Slide 10, you'll see that statutory EBITDA is up 10.9%, while underlying EBITDA rose 13.2%. Statue revenue was up 17.1 percent with all segments growing strongly, noting that financial year 'twenty one Reflects the 1st full year contribution from GALAWELL, while financial year 'twenty only had approximately 7 months. The increase in cost of sales was driven largely by the introduction of the Tabcorp 1.5 percent service fee on the subscription subscription price of tickets as well as growth in ticket sales. Underlying operating expenses, excluding 1 offs, Increased at a lower rate and revenue, driven by increased investments in the business to drive growth and building capability, including enhanced corporate governance and risk management. Slide 11 starts with the Lottery Retailing, Where we saw underlying TTV and revenue growth of 10% so 15% 17.1%, respectively. On this slide, I have adjusted the numbers to reflect the transition of our WA customers to Lottery West, which from 21 December Within our SaaS segment, this was effectively a transfer of TTV at a margin of approximately 20% to a SaaS margin of 9.5 percent with an estimated CHF2.1 million headwind to the financial year 'twenty one result. We have not disclosed comparative EBITDA figures for all three segments due to the change in operating model and organizational structure earlier this year, But I have broken out the performance by heart. The stronger second half performance primarily reflects the improved jackpot cycle with 23 Powerball and Oz Lotto jackpots greater than 15,000,000 compared to only 15,000,000 in the first half of 'twenty one. Turning to SaaS on Slide 12, where 'twenty one financial year has seen a significant uplift in TDV and revenue As our 4 SaaS clients have been successfully migrated to the PVJ platform. While my foundation has been on the PVJ platform for the full 12 month period, Endeavor and Debt Services only fully transitioned in October 'twenty and May 'twenty one, respectively, While Lottery West went live on 21 December, based on the Q4, the annualized TTV run rate was €132,200,000 Revenue of €31,200,000 comprises internal revenue of €27,100,000 From Lottery Retailing and revenue from external customers of €4,900,000 This intersegment revenue is equivalent to 7.5 of luxury retailing TVV and reflects the license fee for use and customization of the PBJ platform, Including ongoing system improvements, platform feature development and innovation and use of data analytics software. The external revenue margin was 4.7%. Financial year 'twenty one EBITDA was €22,000,000 Reflecting an EBITDA to revenue margin of 68.5%. Moving to Managed Services on Slide 13, Which principally reflects the performance of our U. K. Business, Gatherwell, noting that our Australian operations, jumbo fundraising, Was only launched in February this year, and therefore, its contribution to financial year 'twenty one has not been material. The headline results shown in the charts are distorted due to the timing of the GatherWell acquisition, where approximately 7 months of trading was reported in financial year 'twenty with a full 12 months recorded for financial year 'twenty one. On a like for like and constant currency basis, Gatherwell delivered a very strong performance with TTV and revenue up 40 42%, respectively, with EBITDA more than doubling to £663,000 at a margin of 36%. Operating costs on Slide 14. At our headline level, operating costs were up 19.3%. After removing one off items, including the consulting fees relating to the Tabcor Agreement extension and due diligence costs associated with the conditional acquisition of Stride, Operating costs increased by 15.2%. In the chart on the slide, I've shown the underlying operating cost growth, Removing the impact of one off items and adjusting for the timing of the Gallowale acquisition, you can see the underlying cost growth was 12.2%. The new Tabcorp agreement provides Jung La with a high degree of certainty over the longer term, and we are now 1 year into our 10 year agreement. The Board and management team are committed to strengthening our capabilities from both a platform and people perspective To ensure we maximize the growth opportunities that lie ahead. That said, we anticipate a step up in underlying operating in financial year 2022, particularly in the areas of marketing, people and technology as we build the foundations to execute our growth strategy over the medium term. The continued growth and cash generated nature of our Lottery retailing business Provides us with a unique opportunity to simultaneously grow and invest for the future. Turning to the balance sheet on Slide 15, and we continue to maintain a strong position underpinned by the strong organic cash generation of the business. The Board has declared a final fully franked ordinary dividend of $0.185 per share, taking the total dividend For the year to 0.0365 dollars per share, reflecting an 85% payout ratio of statutory NPAT. We continue to maintain a strong cash position after accounting for the payment of the final dividend due to be paid to shareholders On 24th September 2021. As flagged in our interim results in February, the Board has now reviewed our broader capital management strategy, including dividend policy. On balance, the Board has resolved to maintain the existing dividend payment ratio At 85% of statutory NPAT, however, I note that the overall capital management framework will continue to be reviewed in the context of Future growth opportunities for the group. Cash flow on Slide 16. Turning to the cash flow, where the cash generated profile of the business is clearly evident with a cash with a free cash flow Of $28,600,000 and a greater than 100% cash conversion. I will now hand back to Mike. Thanks, Dave, and thanks for highlighting the commitment to continue to invest in our technology and people, which will be critical to executing our growth strategy. One example of the expansion opportunities emerging for the group is highlighted by today's announcement of our acquisition of Stride, which marks our entry into the Canadian Charity Lottery market. While the acquisition is only expected to be Later this year and remain subject to regulatory approval, I'd like to highlight the following points. Stride adds over 122,000,000 To Group TTV, it brings in over 750,000 new customers to the group from a combined population of around 5,600,000 people in Alberta and Saskatchewan. As it only operates in 2 provinces, there's significant opportunity to expand outside these provinces. The acquisition will be funded entirely from available cash reserves and given the earnings profile of the business, it will be EPS accretive from day 1 I'm also very pleased that Stride's founder, Sir Dean Faithful and his management team intend to stay on with the business I welcome them to the Jumbo family. So that brings me to the conclusion of the formal part of the presentation where I'd just like to Summarize the key messages from today's presentation. Firstly, we have successfully implemented our new operating model and moved from 1 to 3 operating segments. Lottery retailing continues to perform very well and enters FY 'twenty two with strong momentum Given the recent Powerball jackpot sequence in July August, all our domestic SaaS clients have successfully transitioned to the platform and Our foundation client in the U. K. Is expected to go live in first half of twenty twenty two. GatherWell continues to go from strength to strength and we're very pleased With how we have integrated this business and leveraged its expertise in setting up jumbo fundraising here in Australia. The transition to the new Tabcorp agreement has gone well and importantly brings long term certainty for lottery retailing as well as An opportunity for us to build our emerging SaaS and managed services segments globally. We continue to invest in the business We have the right capabilities to minimize the execution risk of our strategy, particularly as we seek to enter new markets outside Australia. Our balance sheet remains a key strength for us. And finally, we are well positioned to benefit from the structural tailwind supporting our global Lottery industry And the ongoing shift to digital. On that note, we're happy now to take your questions. Our first question is from Desmond Zhou of Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead. Good morning, Mike. Good morning, David. I hope you're both well. First question for me, maybe just around the acquisition of Stride. I guess if you could provide a bit more detail around the acquisition and I know in some of the contrary you've mentioned some hurdles that you guys would have to meet. And then also just keen to find out whether there's any potential synergies from this acquisition, if any at all. And Some comments around margin profile would be appreciated as well. I think the implied revenue margin for this business is about 5%. If you could perhaps compare and contrast that with the UK Charity and the Australian Charity Business, that will be great. Thanks, Des. Look, The synergies are quite evident. This is quite clearly a typical external lottery manager that I've been talking about for a while, I. E. A company that's been around for a long period of time developed very strong links in the community with certain brands and has built a great business. But now that the industry is moving digitally, they lack the digital expertise to take them to the next level. So that's where Jumbo comes in. We are able to provide them with the digital expertise to continue their growth. In that way, it's quite similar to Gatherwill and there are Other organizations like that in the landscape, it is subject to regulatory approval as was Gatherwell, We don't see any issues there, but we just have to wait and go through that process. I will point out that the multiple we bought that 4 is a touch under 5, so 4.8 of net profit before tax, which is Typical in the industry for businesses of this nature and their EPS accretive. So That gives you a bit of an overview on Stride. And you are right about the revenue margin. It is around the 5% to 6% level in or for the Stride business, Which is a reflection of the market in the Canadian region. But obviously, this is to the UK With the Gather Well, we're looking around the 20% level and obviously different to Australia as Just maybe a follow-up on that. I think, Mike, you mentioned that it only operates in 2 provinces at the moment. Is there a reason why that is the case? Is that sort of more regulatory or just specific to the business and then the I guess the CapEx focus in the past Not moving into other areas of the Canadian market? Yes. Again, as a private company, they're somewhat limited in what they can do. So they've Decided to focus on those 2 jurisdictions. We see opportunity in the much larger provinces Around them, as in British Columbia and Ontario. So that should provide some good growth opportunities for them. At that point, especially with the extra firepower that they get from Jumbo. So Again, another big positive as to why we chose to buy that business. Fantastic. And then just last question from me. I think on Page 25 of the annual report, you provide some interesting disclosure there. I'm just referring to the middle chart there just around The PowerBoard estimated market share, which I thought was pretty interesting, perhaps if you could elaborate a bit more on that chart, The story that you're trying to show and how we should interpret the estimated winner ratio and the estimated sales ratio? Yes, look, we've attempted to find some independent data points that show what our market share is and how it And what we found is that it's pretty consistent to what we've been saying all these years. The 2 obvious ways of doing that is just to look at our to estimate overall Sales and look at our percentage of sales on that front and also the winner ratio, which is another proxy to market share. And I can go into that in a lot more detail offline on that if you wish. But what it does quite clearly show is that because we're a digital only Seller of tickets that during the low jackpots, our sales do sag because it's very driven by the jackpot size. But then it roared back to life during the high jackpots as we've just seen in July August. It was a touch of a shame that the $80,000,000 The end of June actually occurred in July, so it didn't make it into the June results. But it gave July a big boost The most recent one, which we had the winner, did really, really well for us. So it just goes to show how that's just the nature of the digital Business that we're in, just how it works. So we're just providing some extra color around what happens. Okay, fantastic. Thanks, Mike. Thanks, David. Thanks, Dave. Suthesh Jayakandan of UBS. I just had a question on Stride as well. I think you mentioned the $1,200,000,000 Market opportunity and Stride having about $120,000,000 or 10% share roughly. I was wondering if you could let us To know a little bit more on the competitive landscape in Canada, are there sort of any other providers who currently provide a similar service to the market? Yes, they are. It's quite similar to what we've seen in the UK where you have maybe a dozen or so of these ELMs, External Lottery Managers, quite similar in nature. They've built themselves up over a 20 year period with close associations with Various charities and built up a good business patiently around them. And they all do follow that Profile about great run businesses, but they just lack that digital strength because they just haven't been in a position to invest To the level that we have in our digital capabilities. So as we look to the Canadian market And the U. K. Market and any other market that we get into, we see the growth coming through acquisition as a good way and fast way of getting The customers on the books and then turbo charging them to grow organically with the benefits of the digital Offering. So very similar in both those markets. And I think we're fine tuning a really good strategy in executing that. That's great. And then just on the fee as well. I think Dave, you just mentioned it was around that 5% to 6% mark. I suppose looking a bit further down the track, would the intention be to lift that fee more in line with What you do in Gatherwell in the U. K. Or here in Australia going forward, just with potentially new customers you sign up? It's very typical to local conditions and the amount of Assistance and work that we have to do, sometimes it's a light touch, sometimes it's a heavy touch and the fee goes along with that. Look, there is opportunity down the track for fee expansion. But I think the main focus is just to sign up more and more of these types of Businesses and organizations in the short term and then look at growing their business At that point and when they're growing, then we grow with them because we're a percentage based model and we can look at fees at that point usually Associated with extra services that we can provide. So we give them the basic platform, prove to them it works And then they say, what else do you have? And then we can provide them with the more fancy stuff like the artificial intelligence and machine learning and that comes at an extra fee. Sure. And the last question I just had was on the SaaS business. I think you quoted $132,000,000 Q4 run rate. Does that include Lottery West in there? Yes, it is. And sorry, just does that mean out of the Four initial charities that you guys signed up for roughly about $140,000,000 in TTV, which contracts are still not up to the full run rate? They all are now. As at the end of June, they're all at a full run rate. Okay, great. Thank you. Our next question is from Rohan Sundram of MST Financial. Please go ahead. Hi, Mike and David. I might just start with a follow-up on Stride. Can you just please explain to grow that business outside of its 2 provinces, what would be involved there? Do you need to We intend this or can the businesses take on additional managers such as Stride and yourselves? Not a hell of a lot is required. Obviously, some regulatory approvals will need to be put into place, but there's nothing that we can say is too onerous On that front, especially with the weight of a large public company behind it, it's more about having the products and the ability To manage the extra business that would come from those areas, as we look over the lottery industry There is a big demand for quality digital services, especially in the charity sector where there's just not really much out there. So We're not too concerned about getting the clients, it's about getting ready so that we can manage those clients and Make them grow and to really support them. So it is a bit of a case of putting the car before the horse, but that's the way Doing it, ensuring that we can really look after these clients and then pretty confident that they'll just follow one after the other at that point. So If you do a good job as we've done in the past, the clients are out there. Okay. So you can take the product to a new state And if you're good enough, you'll be approved. You don't need to displace anyone or wait for any expiries or anything like that. Is that right? Yes, yes, that's right. There's a hell of a lot of charities out there that need to start a lottery. So we're not just reliant on existing ones. There's a whole lot of charities that just really need to get started, but they've got no need to do it for them. All right. Thanks, Mike. Last one for me is on the Lottery West. How would you describe the performance post the migration? And how are you progressing on The discussions around any other potential opportunities with them? Yes, look, it's gone really, really well. Obviously, as our Our largest potentially largest SaaS customer being a government lottery, we're really making sure this performed and it has. They are happy, we are happy. The teams are working well together. There is a long term view with what we can do with them. We catch up with them very regularly and talk about new projects and they're very forthcoming with other ideas. So it's a very positive relationship and it's one to Our next question is from James Fuller of Evans and Partners. Please go ahead. Good morning. It's actually Sacha here. Good morning, Mike. Good morning, Dave. Just a clarification question on Stryd, first of all, so you listed TAM as $1,200,000,000 I assume that's a TDV TAM, but then in the presentation, you've got it under managed services and you refer to A $13,000,000,000 in the Canadian market. So and then the SaaS fee looks more akin to So the revenue margin looks more akin to a SaaS fee. I'm just wondering where this business sits. Is it within managed services at the moment? Yes, it's most definitely managed services. The fee does vary as I said Before, but it's more than just providing a software platform. It's other services, running the lottery, helping with customers, helping with marketing That we get involved in Salisbury family and managed services. Is the better number for the 10,000,000,000,000 rather than the 1.2 Otherwise, it looks like this business already has a 10% share, which seems odd given it's only in 2 provinces. I suppose the 1.2 refers to the existing charities out there that already have lotteries. But the managed services is positioned to start pitching to the rest of the market that are out there asking for somebody to run a lottery for them They need those funds. So that's the difference in the TAMs. Got it. That makes sense. And it looks like you're sort of embarking on a bit of a roll up Strategy with these external lottery managers. I mean given these contracts are probably quite sticky, is it more a case that you've got to Go out and buy existing ones rather than take market share from ones that are already out there? So that's certainly the faster route and we pick them up for around about A multiple of 5, it certainly makes sense to do that. Certainly, as we gain a bit more traction and we get a Largest slice of the pie, then we'll have a bit more weight and we could probably pick up a lot more clients just through our presence in the market. But for now, quite happy to buy them up at these multiples and take the clients along. Otherwise, we could just waste a lot of time Trying to convince clients to leave their existing provider and move on over, this works much better. Okay. I'm just wondering if you can clarify the run rate for Lottery West within the SaaS business. So within that 130 odd run rate you're talking about, where has Seth, where is water in which landed in terms of 2TD? So it's pretty much around the historical levels. So we're still looking at around the €30,000,000 per annum. Okay. So that implies that some of the other contracts have ended up paying a bit I think the gap that you might be referring to is maybe a couple of the small ones that we did announce a while back that we sort of put on the back burner, multiple And a couple of those, but certainly the ones that we have got live are working very well. But at a run rate of +130,000,000 It's not looking too bad. Okay. And last question. Just wondering if you can put some quantum around the OpEx uplift next year. Yes. So As you know, Sascha, we don't provide guidance or anything like that. But I think the way to look at it is The underlying OpEx for 2021 increased by around 12%. We're talking about a step up in OpEx For 2022, so it will be north of the 12%. The main areas that We will be investing in our marketing people and technology. The marketing is mainly in the lottery retailing segment. And that will track similar trends to what we've seen historically. So In the 'twenty one results, that sort of landed around 7% of revenue or 1.5% of TDV. In the people side of things, we're looking at employing around 24 new staff. Obviously, that's going to be phased over the 2022 year. So we're not quite sure what the exact impact will be, But there's about 18 in Australia and about 6 in the UK, generally in business development and software engineers. And obviously, there's also been a fairly big increase in salaries around software engineering, Where COVID has an impact on the market, where you've got companies in Sydney and Melbourne and even internationally offering engineers in Brisbane positions. It's It's been an extremely competitive market. And just to add also a bit more context to that. From a broader perspective, we're only Just finished our 1st year with the TapCork 10 year deal. There is opportunity out there. It is the right time for us To do what we can to execute all this growth that we're seeing around the place. And We don't want to become one of those statistics of Australian companies buying businesses internationally and not executing on it properly. So we're making Absolutely sure that we get it right. The fact that we've done quite well with Gatherwell is a really good start. Strides of the same sort of ilk. So we're pretty confident around that. So we just want to make sure we get the execution right, which I think is the right thing to do. Our next question is from James Bales of Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead. Hi, guys. Couple more questions on slide. I just wanted to get some color on the pre existing organic growth and market share performance Did they have been delivering? That stride you're referring to there, is it James? Yes, that's right. Yes, look, they've had sort of moderate growth for the last They have big contracts with the Star Air Ambulance over there and the Calgary Stampede as well as a whole host of others. The growth has been somewhat limited by the ability to go into the other areas and The limits as to what they can do digitally. So the growth is only single digit. But Yes. To us, we see that as an opportunity just to buy them at a cheaper multiple and then provide them with that digital Capability. Did that answer your question, James? Yes, that's helpful. And just a follow-up to that. Can you maybe talk us through what's involved in the digital integration and the architecture that You'll have there, is this basically going to be completely powered by your software? And what's the timing on that? The timing is very much governed by the client themselves and it follows a similar process that we went through with Lottery West And even going back to Mater and Endeavor, but at a much faster rate. So Yes. The plan is to move them over to the Powered by Jumbo platform and slowly introduce them to the new tools that are available, Go through a bit of training. The actual work involved in setting it up is not that great. It's more the handholding with the client to sort of say, well, here are the keys to Your new digital platform and this is how it works. And it could take them 2 or 3 months before they become competent and make the most of what they have. With all of their clients are much smaller than What we've done with Lottery West and some of the others, so it shouldn't take us more than A couple of months to get them going. So that's not so much the main issue. It's more just getting in the door with these clients, which we've done by a stride. And when do you think you'll have an offer to sell to new customers in Canada? A bit of a work in progress for new customers, probably takes about another 6 months. If you again follow what's happened in the UK, We had to get some regulatory approval to be able to provide the software, which we got fairly quickly. We're now working with Saint Helena Hospice and then that should roll out to a Few more after that. So a similar thing should happen in Canada at that point. So work with existing, develop our own Our offering over there and then start rolling it out to others. And in parallel to that, look at the other acquisition opportunities. Got it. And then maybe more broadly, you have mentioned St Helena. It's been a while since there was A new SaaS customer announced. What do you think the runway is domestically? And how should we think about the Planned growth trajectories for SaaS versus managed services internationally as well? Look, there is still some opportunity in Australia, but we already have probably half of the top 10 on the books already. So we are sort of seeing the maturity in the Australian market, which is why we're moving into The UK and Canada, we're in a much smaller early market position, But we're also targeting a much larger market. So if I look forward over the next 3 to 5 years, Quite easily and quite obviously, the growth will come internationally in that area. It's not to say you won't get any more in Australia, but it will be very much overshadowed by what we get out of There are no further questions at this time. And that does conclude today's call. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.