Earnings Call: H2 2021

Aug 27, 2021

Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Full Year Results Investor Briefing. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. After the speakers' presentation, there will be a question and answer Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Ms. Jennifer Parker, thank you. Please go ahead. Good morning, and welcome to the Linus Rerus Investor Briefing for the 2021 Financial Year. The briefing will be presented by Amanda Lacasse, CEO and Managing Director. And joining Amanda will be Gavin Storzenigher, CFO Daniel Havas, VP of Strategy and Investor Relations and Sarah Leonard, Company Secretary and General Counsel. I'll now hand over to Amanda Lacasse. Please go ahead, Amanda. Good morning, everybody, and welcome to Annual Results 2021 Style. I think we actually have a few rather less people than we normally do on our calls. I'm not sure whether that might have been some challenges with us using this new platform. For those who have not been able to join, certainly we will be recording it and it will be available. So, it really is my great pleasure to be able To present these results today, we have had a record year on all financial metrics. Certainly, the market has helped us. Demand and price growth has progressively strengthened through the year. And really, I think that It's always hard to pick the inflection point in any market when you're in the market at the time, but In retrospect, you can often see it. And it does very much feel like 2021 has been the inflection point for us As the rare earths market and particularly for Magnetic Materials has really started to accelerate. Of course, in 2021, we faced challenges that none of us have ever had to face before. And we felt that particularly and our Malaysian team felt that particularly. I will deal with the operational impact later. Of course, the financial effect of some of the challenges presented by the COVID pandemic Have included subdued production, some challenges for our team in terms of logistics scheduling, Significant increases in shipping costs and indeed we've had to allocate some additional cash to Hold inventories of some of our key inputs. Despite all of these, costs Are in good shape and I'm really very pleased with the team's performance in that area. And of course, our balance sheet is in the best The convertible bonds the last of the convertible bonds converted in August 2020. The JRA debt is stable as all would expect. We've been we've disclosed the terms of the repayment of that previously. And of course, it seems like quite a while ago now that we completed a very successful capital raise In September last year, which sees our key growth projects fully funded. So as I look at these charts, I'm delighted that we're back on an upward trajectory for most of the measures And even on production where, as I said, we've been somewhat subdued, even though it's been constrained, It's still the 2nd best year in our history for the production of MVPR. Production was at levels which were sufficient to meet our current customer demand. And today, I'm really pleased to be able to We have a portfolio of high value customers. It includes both some of the big magnet makers. Of course, Everybody knows that customers like magnet makers in Japan are amongst our largest customers, But also some smaller volumes to Magnum buyers, particularly in the European market where we operate as we've Previously, there are 3 cornered contracts where the magnet buyer can be confident that they've got Line is material inside the magnet that they're purchasing from the magnet maker of their choice. Demand is up Across all customer segments and when in the future we are able to dial up production again, We are very confident that we will be meeting demand, certainly not ahead of it because of the strength of Demand in all areas. The focus on the elements associated with COVID health and Safety doesn't mean that in this year we've had a reduced focus on other aspects. For example, our total The frequency rate has gone down, so we're really pleased with that. We maintained our certifications And that is really important to all of our stakeholders and particularly our customers. But I do think that it's important to take a moment for everyone to remember that we only succeed The environment and the challenges in Malaysia have really been unrelenting, And our people have responded, in particular our leadership team, but all of our people. Our protocols touch not just their work life, but also their personal lives. Our people there have had masks on in the workplace now for almost a full year. We test them and anyone who's had a COVID test knows that it's not Sarah, it's the most pleasant of activities. We test them in many instances every 5 days. Many of our people have had to isolate during the year and that's not been because of workplace exposure or workplace Transmission, but the virus is ever present in the community. And so we've only had a small number of our people who've tested positive. But when that's happened, we've rapidly undertaken our own Tracing methods and put others into isolation. As a result of that, we have had no workplace transmission in this year. Many of our people have been significantly dislocated from their family and their friends, So that they are able to continue to present in the workplace. For all of these things, I say thank you. And certainly at Mount World, although the compliance Task has been less onerous for many of our people. There have been more than one occasion during the year where our people have been required, for example, to wear masks All day long despite how far away we are, we've put constraints on their ability to interact In the local community at relevant times, the local community is 80% Indigenous and so we certainly are very alert to the potential for the effect of our operations in that area. So as I said, our success rests on the hard work And continued application and dedication of our people. At the same time, we've certainly been able to see some real positives, Some continued growth in our key diversity measures and of course that makes me very happy to see that We continue to have a workplace which is gender diverse. Certainly, diverse on an Ethnicity basis, we've I think got 10 different nationalities just in our first two layers of management. Diverse in terms of age and industry experience. I think all of these things contribute to us Being a better company and delivering better outcomes for our shareholders. On that matter, all of our stakeholders, But most particularly our customers and you and shareholders know that ESG is not a 3 letter acronym, Which is just to be trotted out at relevant times and hope that people will think well therefore we've ticked the box. For us, we are embracing some of the new ESG requirements and measures Within a culture which already is very focused on the things that matter, Our people know the importance of the products that we produce as the globe as right across the globe We meet the challenges of climate change and other environmental Impacts from the human race on the globe, I mean frankly. Our people understand the importance of what we do. They understand that it's also critical that we do it sustainably. So, as we look to Transitioning some of the things that we some of the ways that we work, moving into new modes of operation. Our people understand the importance of that and embrace it with a great deal of enthusiasm. Practically, We've completed life cycle analysis, which allows us to see the potential effect of our activities. We keep that up to date. We've also in this year completed greenhouse gas analysis, which will inform some of our very real actions To reduce our greenhouse gas emissions including signing up to science based target initiatives Which means that we can't just say, well, we'll buy a certificate here or there and then everything will be all right. And of course, the other thing which has remained critically important this year is engagement with community. Certainly, in Malaysia, many of our local community members have been very challenged by the effects of the pandemic And also by unfortunately some natural events including a tornado in one of our local villages. So we've actually stepped up our support to our local communities through this time. I think many of the people on this call sorry, despite all of these challenges which It's been presented by the pandemic. Our focus on operational excellence and asset management continues. At both of our sites, We've now got plants which have been in operation for 8 years. It's sort of 10 years since they were built. It's really important that we sustain the quality of these assets, their ability to work, Do the work that we need them to do as we meet this growing market. We're very focused on the operational excellence In terms of our people's performance and behavior and it's quite exciting. We're implementing 7S Management at Linus Malaysia even in amongst All of the other challenges and many of you know Paul LaRue who heads up our marketing and sales And he and Downstream Operations, as Paul has committed to eat ice cream off the floor In our plant, once we reach all 7 Ss, You might even share that video with your shareholders when it happens. But We are continuing to focus in all of these areas to ensure that we are really well placed to push harder As we transition out of the constraints presented by the pandemic. Many of you on this call track the external market Probably more breathlessly even than we do. The bounce back in 2021 from the effects in 2020 has been quite As we look at global vehicle sales, demand for electric vehicle sales, all of these are very much feeding demand, which in turn And even in our catalyst segments, we're back to pre COVID demand levels. I'm very excited about some of the work that we're doing at Mt. Weld. For a long time, Mt. Weld has simply just been sort of this steady rock, No pun intended, on which the rest of our business rests. And as we move into the new growth phase for For our company, we need to be looking at investments in all of our sites. And most certainly at Mount World, we have a really The end of plan with enough in it to keep the GOs really excited, keep the nets really excited, keep the mining team really excited and keep the We have exploration. We've talked a little bit about And disclose the results of our deep drill hole, the final analysis of all of that and report It should be available towards the end of this calendar year. We've just commenced operations in our 4th mining campaign. This will be the largest cutback that we've done in the mine pit at Mount Wells. And so certainly the miners who like to move a lot We're having a pretty good time. In processing, we're making investments to Both improve the effectiveness of the flow sheet, but also to improve the Quality of the finished material. You would have seen that we've talked about the installation of a dryer, Which will improve the quality of the corn that we produce. That matters as we feed it into And Finally, we're starting the process of building a stockpile of concentrates ready for when our Kukui Kalgoorlie facility comes online. In Malaysia, as I've already covered, we've had very careful management of activities With external constraints on the number of people that we can have on-site at any time And as you all know, we are always a lawful and compliant business. And so we have not reached those levels. It means that we can't have all of our process staff and all of our maintenance Staff and all of the contractors that we would normally have on-site all at the same time. It can be Seductive to think we'll sacrifice some of our maintenance activities given those constraints. We have not done that. It is important that the plant is running reliably that we have it available as we see The opportunities to increase production. So the team has worked very carefully there to ensure that we are Implementing a proper maintenance Schedule even as we continue to meet the sorts of production outcomes that we're seeking. And of course, we announced just earlier this week that even though the work on the PDF in Malaysia has been slow Due to movement controls, which has limited the number of people who can be on-site, complete studies, etcetera, we are moving forward. Kalgoorlie is another very exciting activity for us. Progress is Really on track with our minor and preliminary works commencing earlier this year. The 4 week public review I completed in tune. We're very, very engaged with the local community and Cam and his team has run Pop up information points in Kalgoorlie to enable the local community to ask us directly about Opportunities and effects of the investment in the Kalgoorlie facility. Our engineering design is very well Great. As said, we're on-site and the kiln is almost on its way. It's at the port in I'm ready to get on the ship. U. S. Is still a fabulous prospective market for us. We have done a lot of work on the design and engineering here and we await With some excitement, the next stage communication from the U. S. Government with respect to that facility. 2021, so for the first time, I think, governments other than There's been quite a lot of rhetoric on it over many years, but as you look through Certainly, on this presentation, you will see that it's now being backed with some serious action, whether it's policy or financial, Really fund the development of a much more Much healthier. I'm trying to think much more dynamic outside China I'm Margaret Ferreira. And I think this will be good for everybody, including our Other participants in the market would operate within the Chinese market. So Linus 2025, we've spoken about on many occasions. It is really exciting and our current effort is really focused on finding ways that we might be able to accelerate Elements of our Linus 2025 plan because we are looking at demand, we are looking at returns, They're very favorable and we really need to step up and ensure that we can meet the demand in the market. So there's a lot more in the presentation and also in the financial Forward, which I assume that all will read in their own good time. But with that as an overview, I'm very happy to take any questions that people might have. Thank you so much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer And our first question comes from the line of Jack Gabb. Jack, Your line is now open. Thank you and good morning everyone. Thanks Amanda for your comments. I guess first question for me is Just relating to the constraints you mentioned in Malaysia, is 75% of nameplate capacity realistic this quarter? I think that we will be Stretching to get to the $75,000,000 this quarter, Jack. Although, Okay. We're 2 months almost 2 months into it, but every day has got its own challenges. There is risk because Pahang now has many more COVID cases than it had ever in the 1st This year, on a daily basis, we're typically looking at between 5 700 cases In Pahang, where we were previously looking at maybe 100 to 300, the effect of that on us Is that because our people are in the community, if we had anyone who is exposed, Then we have people who are isolated, who are required to quarantine Under our own policy because ensuring that people don't come into the workplace, Don't bring intention into the workplace is so important. So I'm cautious about giving anything that may be construed as guidance on this because we are dealing with such uncertainty. We have a plan, all going well. We should be able to execute effectively, but it is We are dealing with challenges that we haven't had quite as sort of clear and present previously. This too will pass. I mean, we understand this too will pass. And that's my point about ensuring that we have our assets locked and loaded and ready to go the minute that we can Yes, so the turn up and the turn of production up well above that 75%. Yes, absolutely. And 2nd question is just on Malaysia Steel. So I guess we've got a new PM and I've heard he was a previous proponent of Condesoil And of Linus, I've also read he's he previously questioned the renewal of your operating license, albeit by the previous government. And I guess, while I think it's fair to say that Opinions change, particularly when out of government, can be very different when they're in government. Are you able to clarify Linus' I see that you would be aware that for Many years we operated in Malaysia with a lot of support from government because of The benefits that we bring to Malaysia. One of the benefits is that Malaysia is really ahead of the game when you think about that Sort of global map and the importance of resilient supply chains, Malaysia gets to stand In that value chain in a way that actually nowhere else starts outside of China. And so We are an exemplar foreign direct investor. We employ locally. We buy locally. We support our local communities. And so for many years, we operated with a very sort of collaborative and productive relationship with Government. And that government was an unknown government. Of course, 2018 caused us quite a lot of challenges. I would point to the fact that through all of this, Our underlying principle has been that if we operate safely, if we are compliant with regulations And if we are continuing to contribute to the capability, skill and quality of life For our people and the people in our local communities that that is the best way for us to handle any political situation. Malaysia does have a strong respect for the rule of law and also for scientific data and that has always held us a good step. So in terms of the politics, I would be foolish to predict What any politician might say or do, I accept what you're saying, Jack, that politicians' positions Can change over time. However, I think that this government will be focused on recovery From the pandemic, Malaysia has been very battered by the pandemic and companies like Linus that really make a serious Contribution whilst complying with all of our operating license Yes, conditions. I would expect that we will be able to continue to do so. And I'm hopeful that at some stage, we will be able to look to continue to grow. Thanks, Amanda. And just two last ones for me. Firstly, Just on your iron phosphate, I mean, I call it a byproduct, given it contains a reasonable amount of NDPR. Just curious whether this could be reprocessed through the new circuit or the existing circuit, I guess, both in Cambodia and in Malaysia or whether You would need additional infrastructure to reprocess that. And I guess just how far into the future is that likely to be considered? We don't know the answer to that yet. We do have people working on what would the flow sheet be. And I think that As someone who works in the minerals industry, you would know that the idea of being able to reclaim valuable material from Tailings is not unique to Linus. And in most operations at some stage Our companies go back and process their tailings. The material is in slightly different form, whether it's in Our tailings storage facilities at Mount World or whether it's in the iron phosphate In Malaysia or in the iron phosphate that we will be producing and calculating. We don't know how to process it. I have a fundamental Faith that we will resolve this and that the team that's working on it has got some good indications to date but Not finalized. So there are different ways that you can think about doing it. You can think about sort of adding it as Blending it back through the current flow sheet, but it may be that we're better off looking at an alternate flow sheet. Perfect. And then very last One is just on the markets. We've seen, I guess, a few companies come out and announce the impact of chip shortages. Just curious, I don't know, obviously, you don't have direct But whether you're hearing anything from your magnet maker customers or others, whether that's starting to impact rare earths Are you concerned about that at the moment or not really? We're alert to it, and we're certainly aware of it. But at present, we're not seeing any effect on demand for our material. But certainly, we are highly alert to this because sort of the Key end market one of our key end markets is automotive and anything which is going to affect automotive And then it is potentially a risk and then of course anything which affects electronics is potentially a risk. But we are not seeing it at present, notwithstanding our understanding of the shortages. Perfect. Thanks, Amanda. I'll pass it on. Thanks, Jack. Thank you so much. And your next question comes from the line of Daniel Morgan. Daniel, your line is now open. Hi, Amanda. I just wanted to follow on a little bit about some of the challenges of operating in Malaysia at present and also with COVID. Can you just touch on these A little bit further, these logistics issues and are they more pronounced now on getting your concentrate to site and other consumables? Is it more pronounced now than it has been in the past? Welcome back. I hope your azaleas are in good shape. You've been gone over the past few months, yes? Or is it roses, Daniel? I don't know. Look, the thing with COVID, and I think we're all over listening to politicians, but the Challenges change. Unfortunately, it's never the same challenge every day. So we sort of fix And then we find sort of a different challenge coming through. So I think I've covered quite Clearly, the issue around constraints on-site. As we think about logistics, The first thing that COVID has done is it's increased freight costs by, I think, Almost double. And so that's just a straight up financial impact. Through the year, we had some quite significant challenges with delays in concentrate shipments where the Primary driver of that was much longer than normal trans shipment times in Singapore. We have now been able to build up our supply chain to accommodate that longer period of time and concentrate is not the availability of concentrate to feed the So, we've got inventory onshore, But we are still looking at sort of quite long delays at times. It's certainly taking a lot more time for material to find its way from Fremantle With respect to some of the other inputs, we're fortunate that Yes. Sort of some of our largest inputs are sourced locally. Yes, sulfuric acid and hydrochloric acid just both come from Local producers are very close to our plant. But there are some of the other materials which we use Some of the other reagents which have been disrupted at various times. And because the pandemic sort of waxes the flames in different Countries, we can't always predict when it's going to happen. So even though China has not been reporting a lot of cases, we actually We see that there must be challenges at times when we see that we can't get material out of a particular province or otherwise. And so the way that we've responded to this is that we've got sort of a multiple Apply panel for all of our key materials and are managing those very carefully So that we can switch between suppliers to keep consistent supply. The most recent that was challenging for us was material coming out of the Middle East. And so Once again, we've actually increased our planned inventory. So we had a few hairy days on that. We've increased the amount of inventory that we had and the number of shipments that we're coming through. It seems to be the best way to deal with the uncertainty. Thank you. Sorry, I'm just thinking back to your question. When we talk then outbound logistics, that also has given us quite a lot of challenges, but less today than earlier in the pandemic. But we certainly have had times where we simply had not been able to get product on Ships on the days that we would have normally expected that we would be able to get it on ships. But generally, We have been able to do it within a reasonable period of time. But once again, very active management by Yes. Wayne Park is our GM Commercial. He is sort of really managing that shipment sort of program very actively on a daily basis. Thank you very much. And I guess a follow-up question on COVID in Malaysia. I mean, it has caused more disruptions at some other factories in the country, which have You haven't been forced into that, but can you just talk about that risk to your What would trigger a potential shot and how you're managing them? That's the reason why we stick things up our people's noses every few days. That's the reason why we've had people in sort of accommodation hotel accommodation close to the site rather than having to Yes, travel across districts. That's the reason why at one stage we had Just over 50, I think about people in isolation. It is all about Doing everything that we can to not bring the infection on-site. So the operations which have been shut down Have typically had a incidence on-site and an incidence of workplace transmission Because it is so prevalent, this is a daily risk And it is just relentless for our people in Malaysia to manage it. We're At the heart of the reason why we're doing it is to ensure the safety of our people. We were amongst the 1st companies in Malaysia to sign up to the public private vaccination program. As we've said in our release, we've got 98% of our staff, first vaccinations, 94% second vaccinations. And The ones who haven't completed their second vaccination will do it within the next couple of weeks. And I think that we've only got a grand total of about 3 or 4 staff who Medical reasons are unable to tolerate the vaccine. So this should reduce Risk, but as we all know, vaccine doesn't completely eliminate your ability to acquire the virus, But it does mean that it is less likely to be a serious disease. So even with a fully vaccinated workforce, we will still have To have all of these various controls in place, I think even our local Ministry of Health in Malaysia recognizes that our control is Really strong and in fact go further than some of the Ministry of Health guidelines themselves. And for that reason, we have that is the reason why we've been Able to continue to operate whereas there may be some other businesses where they have been less stringent in their Controls and less disciplined in their compliance. Once again, and I know I say this a lot, but our Malaysian staff, The level of compliance with the conditions that we have set upon them, which don't only apply in the workplace, but which have limited Aspects of their personal life has been amazing and that has really been at the heart of As being able to continue to operate, but it is a daily risk. Thank you. It sounds like a commendable effort in managing what is And then my last question, I guess, is a little bit more strategic. I mean, there's growing talk A number of potential greenfield rare earth facilities being considered in Australia and Government support as well as government is looking at the supply chain risks that you've identified. Does it make To team up and reduce capital duplication or can you just talk through that strategic element? The first thing that I would say is that isn't it great that we have a market where demand is so strong and forecast Growth is so strong that people might want to invest in developing this market. And My history is the more investment you have, the more innovation you have, the more activity you have, The healthier your market is. And so, I think that's a terrific sort of outlook for industry. On the other hand, we certainly operate and some of the Prospective projects operate in a stage of the value chain, which is very capital intensive. A capital overbuild when we're competing with a planned and well executed industrial strategy It's probably not going to have a really happy ending for a lot of people. So it's for this reason that we have often presented and promoted The concept of Calvary becoming a real hub for RERA's processing It's the reason why we continue to engage with prospective providers of third party Material that could be processed through that facility, we will continue to do so. And certainly, I think that we should be looking for efficiencies. We talked to the government about creating Yes, sort of an environment in which we can be successful, so infrastructure and utilities that facilitate successful outcomes. Certainly, I think that we should be looking to make sure that we don't have unnecessary overbuild And that where it is relevant to have shared facilities or co located Thank you so much. And your next question comes from the line of Reg Spencer, Raj, your line is now open. Thank you. Good morning, Amanda, and good afternoon. Congratulations on a very good FY 'twenty one results. My question relates to project timelines. And I know a few weeks back in Quarterly call, we discussed at length how you thought Kalgoorlie was progressing. Noting the recent extension that was being granted for your PDF construction in Malaysia, should there be any delays In receiving necessary approvals or construction timelines at Kalgoorlie, what might we think the prospects are of a similar extension Granted to your Malaysian operating license. All right. How long is the piece of strength? So we are fully committed to Our Cogolip facility being up and running and running at our target rates Plenty of time for us to be able to meet the current license conditions in Malaysia. And we have no showstoppers on that at this time. And the project team, The energy and enthusiasm for completing this task is palpable. It's It's a pity you can't actually see them in person, but they are sort of so energized to actually get this up and running. So we are completely committed to doing that. On the other hand, it has always been our position that our current operations in Malaysia Good for us, but they're also very good for Malaysia. And so as we move Through continuing to engage with government on some conditions which were introduced by Our government, which is no longer in government, yes, I mean, we'll continue to have those But we are fully committed to Cal Gurley and we are confident of meeting our timeline. Okay, great. Just a follow-up question for Jaks on the supply chain downstream with respect to chip shortages. Acknowledged that you mentioned that you're not seeing any effect on demand for magnet material at this point in time. Are you able to comment on whether or not This could be an indication of some stockpiling in the supply chain. I think most people who are following this chip shortage issue We would know that it's likely to be a reasonably shorter term constraint and would be resolved in due course, but any comments on Behavior of the midstream, if you're able to share those? You're asking is there Yes, pipeline fell on rare earth. Correct, yes. Oh, no, there's not. Yes, I can comment on that. I can say that this is not inventory build in the supply chain. It is real demand And it's moving through the value chain fast. Okay. Excellent. Excellent. Thanks very much, guys. I'll pass it on. Thanks, Reg. Thank you. Thank you so much. And your next question comes from the line of Trent Allen. Trent, your line is now open. Thanks, guys. Congratulations on a good result. Now I've got a couple of questions. The first one is really in 2 parts. It's about Kalgoorlie again. You touched on this already. But can you give us a sense of, First of all, the potential timing around the EPA's decision in the review there, have they given you any feedback about when that might be That's the first question. No. We don't know when the EPA will opine on our Project, of course, we are very closely engaged with the EPA on dealing with We had a very small number of comments that came from the public display of the material. We have responded to those and we're working very closely with the EPA team. But as with everything, I will never Ever, ever, forecast when government or regulators will make decisions, it's not within my control. Sure. Thank you. Now the second one, I think everyone's getting this question. It's around costs in particularly in WA, are you seeing any signs of inflation around labor and also in equipment and some of the things that you're ordering for the plant there? Sure. I mean steel prices have gone up. Our Chairman also sits on the Board of BlueScope. So with one half of her brain, she's cheering and with the other half of her brain, she's lamenting. So there has been some increase in steel prices. And how do we Under that, certainly one of the things we make sure that we do is that we have sort of that part Properly specified and so that we can purchase material sort of sooner rather than later. We are managing this project in house, and that allows us to Look at doing things like creating packages which are appropriate for small and medium sized enterprises, which tend to have More stable workforces rather than some of the big EPC firms which are all finding for sort of contracting resources At the same time, we've always talked about wanting to employ as many locals as we can In Kalgoorlie and we are engaged with local chambers including the local indigenous business chamber On opportunities there. So we know all of these things and we have Policies and strategies in place to mitigate the risks. And So if your question is, is it affecting us today? No. Do we believe that we will remain unscathed? Maybe, but it would be imprudent if we didn't have risk management strategies in place. Sure. So in terms of is it too early to talk about a percentage change in the increase in the CapEx that you Indicated for Cowal, is it a few percent or can you comment at this stage? We've told the market that we're going to do this within a capital envelope of $500,000,000 We haven't changed that. Sure. Okay. Now just getting short of time. So one more question, it's on Malaysia. Now of course, we're all looking forward to a time when COVID isn't so much of a trouble. You were talking about Around 75% of nameplate in terms of operating there. Can you remind us what the percentage It was before COVID or what you might expect it to be afterward. I know you're constrained in terms of the amount of material you can import into Malaysia. I think it was around 85% or 90% previously. Can you remind us of what that number is? And has it increased because you've made some improvements Trent, I can't think of that number right off the top of my head. But I think that when you have a look at the chart that what we produced a couple of years ago is pretty close to the top of it. So if I go back to there, that will give you a sense for that. We're not constrained on Concentrate at present. So We really are only constrained. So when we have a look at this, we got up close to that sort of 6,000 tonnes. We think we can do that within Yes. What was causing some of the constraints previously in that year, we were shut down I think for 3 or So, yes, We're working to be a I'll have a look at sorry, go on. Yes, yes. What I was going to say is We need to be at Linus next rate because the market needs us to be at Linus next rates. So everything that we're doing right now is to make That as we move out of some of the COVID constraints that we can operate at lightest mix rates. Sure. Okay. I'll work that number out from your Richard. Richard. That's all for me. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much. And your next question comes from the line of Matthew Chen. Matthew, your line is now open. Hi, Andrew and team. Congrats on the result. Just wanted to ask about your read on Myanmar, what's happening there and the broader market dynamics? Thanks. Yes. So then Myanmar, I can't give you any sort of General comment on the Emirates not done, yes, sort of my bag. Although I'm one of the few people who went to It was Burma at the time when the military, Yunta, was in charge was still in control in the Ladies. But having said that, certainly supply out of Myanmar into Southern China factories has been significantly disrupted and we see that as being part of the strength I don't think anyone is expecting it to be resolved anytime soon. No. Yes, okay. And just in broader in sort of China, are you kind of still seeing rational behavior amongst participants? I haven't seen I haven't seen the quotas for second half yet, but I mean they're always kind of roughly in line with First half, aren't they? Can you give any sort of read there? Could you just update us on that? Thanks. Look, what we're seeing is strong demand in China. China magnet buyers are buying lots of Raw materials and selling lots of payments both in China and also to their customers outside China. And Once again, I make it a practice not to comment on what decisions governments might make I think the market is very Buoyant at present and many magnet buyers and magnet makers would see Increased supply is a good thing. And so not sort of I think in kind of demand destruction, I've got some spot prices. There's still sort of further momentum there In your mind? I also make it a practice not to forecast what's going to happen Okay, great. So we watch it carefully. And We're quite pleased that it's been quite stable, but at very high numbers for a while now. Yes, definitely briefing the benefits. Well done again. Thanks. Thanks, Matt. Thank you so much. Yes, there are no further questions at this time. You may continue. Thank you. Okay. I was just going to say, I think we're just about on the hour. Thank you very much for everybody who joined us today. And I think we have a number of meetings I'll talk to some of you again over the next week. So look forward to doing that. So thanks very much for your time. And that does conclude the conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may all now disconnect.