Mitchell Services Limited (ASX:MSV)
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May 7, 2026, 4:10 PM AEST
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Earnings Call: H1 2024

Feb 22, 2024

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today for the Mitchell Services half-year results. I'm Andrew Chan for Bridge Street Capital. Joining us from the company, please welcome Executive Chair Nathan Mitchell, CEO Andrew Elf, and CFO Greg Switala. We will have a Q&A session at the end of the presentation, so if you could enter all questions into the Q&A, and I'll address them at the end. The webinar is being recorded and will be circulated afterwards. On that note, Andrew, over to you. Thank you.

Andrew Elf
CEO, Mitchell Services

All right, Allen. Thanks very much for the introduction, and thanks very much, everyone, for joining us today and for the interest in the company. I'll move straight to slide four, the market profile, and just take the disclaimer as being read. Obviously, there you can see the shares and market cap and major holders, obviously Mitchell Group being Nathan Mitchell, and Dream Challenge, Scott Tumbridge, another one of our non-exec directors. Just moving on to slide five, the summary for the first half. Look, a very good half for the business and significantly improved half-on-half, year-on-year, when looking at EBITDA through to profit after tax and return on capital. Certainly, I think, as Greg goes through the financial slides, he'll certainly provide some additional color on what's driving those improvements.

Also, and importantly, down there in the middle, the winner of a prestigious National Safety Award, which I'll touch on again a little bit more in a moment. So just on slide six, the overview, obviously, the high prices for commodities are still driving demand for drilling services, particularly for highly skilled drilling services, either mine services work or depot work or specialist-type work of different natures. We say here that inflationary pressures are continuing to ease. Really, best to break that up into two parts to give it a little bit more color, one, from a labor perspective, and two, from an inputs perspective. We also make the point there that, you know, the market in exploration has softened a little bit. So you've sort of seen lithium and nickel come off.

I know a small drilling company up in Mount Isa called Tullis gone into administration. Another drilling company up in North Queensland is selling some rigs and reducing their size. Junior capital raisings, not bad through November, December, but down in January. It's obviously the wet season, too, so things are a bit slow in that space. So certainly, when you then look at some of those things that are happening and take it back to how labor's looking, certainly what we're seeing with labor is less pressure than what we have seen in the past. And certainly, from a more senior employee perspective, we wouldn't anticipate any great movements in labor expense into the future. Obviously, it's sort of gonna be more lower-end than what Fair Work decides to do.

From an input perspective, certainly a big input cost for us is drill rods and things that are made of steel, and those prices have been fairly flat, and so is the, you know, the cost of CapEx and things like that. So all in all, from an inflation perspective, the outlook for us is certainly a lot better than it has been. Then obviously, that exploration market is not a large part of our business. Obviously, a majority of our business, as I say there, is with the global mining majors on their mine sites. So certainly, that being the case with good commodity prices, they're certainly very busy. The revenue split, a bit more of a movement towards the surface, a little bit of a change in mix of work. Gold's still that circa 40% of the book, roughly.

As I said there, 80% of the work is predominantly mine site-related. So we're still quite busy, and looking like it's gonna be another good half for us in the second half. Importantly as well, we've got no exposure to lithium or nickel in the business, so that hasn't impacted us whatsoever with some changes there. Just operationally on seven, the surface fleet effectively booked out. Demand is strong. And again, as I said, those people that are producing and making good money, and they're very busy. Rigs that we have got available to us are predominantly underground rigs. They're obviously a lot smaller, don't invoice as much. You know, and it is more of a generally, more of a commodity-style drilling, still aspects of specialist drilling.

Rig count in that area does increase and decrease in the ordinary course of business. We've had a few come off in Victoria, and then post these results, as of 31 December, this year so far, there's been a couple heading out again. So, all in all, you know, we expect that rig count, and demand for services to remain strong. We talk about rainfall. There's been rain around, but we've been fairly lucky so far. It hasn't really hit us where it hurts, which is good. And that's obviously driven that performance in regards to EBITDA and down to the NPAT line as well. In regards to that safety award, it was the National Health and Safety Team of the Year award, a very prestigious award. Importantly, against all companies from all industries and organisations of all sizes.

So we're certainly up against some of the big boys and girls, and a great win for our team and really talks to some of the great things that we're doing. And I'll hand over to Greg for the financial slides.

Greg Switala
CFO & Company Secretary, Mitchell Services

Thanks, Andrew, and morning, everyone. Looking at the profit and loss on slide eight, the company has produced a strong first-half result, with earnings leverage beginning to play out. EBITDA increased by over 20%, AUD 20 million for the half, with improvements driven from increased margins as opposed to top-line revenue growth. The margin performance was driven by a variety of factors, most notably the absence of adverse weather conditions, a favorable shift in the mix of work, and recent price increases across the contract book. The most significant improvements, though, were below the EBITDA line, with the company reporting earnings before tax of AUD 6.2 million, significantly improved versus the circa break-even position of the prior period.

The AUD 6 million improvement reflects the AUD 4 million EBITDA improvement as well as material reductions in depreciation and interest costs as debt levels continue to decrease and CapEx levels continue to normalize. I'll touch on both of those points, as I move through the presentation. Looking at slide nine, increased pre-interest and tax earnings, together with a normalizing asset base, represent very favorable conditions for significant return on invested capital numbers. We've certainly seen that in 1H 2024 with return on invested capital over 15%, up exponentially, versus 2% in 1H 2023. We expect to at least maintain these ROIC levels, as the business continues to allocate CapEx sensibly in accordance with capital management objectives, that Andrew will outline later in the presentation as well. Slide 10, looking at the balance sheet, the solid first-half profit performance has meant that the overall balance sheet has remained strong.

Importantly, given the relatively stable operating rig count and the usual seasonal dip in December, has meant that the working capital position in December of AUD 20 million was significantly improved versus the AUD 27 million position in June. This AUD 7 million improvement has driven material increases to cash flows and significant reductions to net debt, which I'll also highlight as we move through. From a cash flow perspective on slide 11, the company generated operating cash flows of over AUD 24 million in 1H 2024 at an EBITDA to cash conversion ratio of well over 100%. This exceptional performance was driven largely from three factors, being the improved EBITDA performance, the significant working capital improvement as highlighted on the previous slide, as well as a 30% reduction in interest costs given the rapid debt reductions over the same period.

Worth highlighting, too, as we've pointed out previously, that the business doesn't expect to pay income tax until at least the end of FY 2025, having benefited from the recent ATO instant asset write-off program. Looking at slide 12, I touched earlier on the significant debt reduction, and that's certainly highlighted on this slide. Net debt is essentially halved in six months from AUD 17.6 million in June to AUD 9.1 million currently. Almost all of the debt is traditional equipment finance, a pricing that was fixed prior to the rate rises. And that's highlighted in the blended average cost of funds figure being circa 5.7%. On a net debt to trailing EBITDA basis, leverage has now dropped to its lowest level in recent times, being 0.25x.

We do make the point there that given the upcoming dividend in March and the seasonal working capital requirements associated with increased activity levels post-December, net debt will likely increase in the short term. However, the company remains on track to reach its June 2024 net debt target of no more than AUD 15 million. And finally from me, just in terms of CapEx on slide 13, the company remains committed to its capital management strategy, which includes the application of sensible limits to growth CapEx. In line with the strategy and following the completion of the organic growth strategy, overall CapEx levels have begun to normalize in recent years, with 1H 2024 CapEx of AUD 9.7 million, largely in line with expectations, and slightly increased versus 1H 2023 levels.

Given the relatively high level of utilization across the business, maintenance CapEx continues to support high levels of availability across all equipment. We do make the point there finally that any second-half CapEx requirements will be expected to be funded through cash.

Andrew Elf
CEO, Mitchell Services

Thanks, Greg. And just to touch on what Greg's saying there, obviously, we're on track to hit that AUD 15 million net debt target, you know, even with cash funding, that CapEx in H2 from the capital management side of things, you know, we have said to everybody that, you know, dividends from earnings and buybacks from surplus equipment sales. And again, just looking at that number, the bottom point there, you know, given the final divvy from 2023, this interim that's upcoming, and buybacks so far, you know, we've returned AUD 13.2 million to shareholders. And I'm sure when we get to the question time, Nathan will have some comments to make on his view in regards to capital management, you know, into the future for the business.

Just on 15, looking at that capital management performance, there, we've really touched on all of this, but really some fantastic numbers heading in the right direction there. You know, we're disciplined, and we're rewarding our shareholders, and we're reducing debt. The balance sheet really is starting to, to look like a, a decent business now, and that's really gonna give us some fantastic options, as we move forward into the future. So in summary on 16, again, AUD 20 million EBITDA and AUD 4.3 million NPAT respectively. The strong commodity prices, for the clients that we work for are still driving strong demand for drilling services. I didn't talk about the history of the company in the introduction today, but again, it's a quality brand, with a long history and, and very high-quality revenue streams. Yeah, the global major miners, and existing producers, are still busy.

Inflationary pressures better than they have been. Net debt significantly down. Shareholder returns up. And again, solid return on capital as Greg said, and net profit. And importantly, we're saying that the earnings levels in 2024 are gonna exceed 2023. We're obviously covered by QValue and Morgans. So for those on the call that aren't aware of that, I'd certainly point you in the direction of those reports to have a read off. Thank you, Allen. And we've opened it up to questions, please.

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

Great second. Thanks, Andrew. Thanks, Greg.

Step people on the call if you can. If there are questions, you can answer into the Q&A, and then we can address them as they come up. Dave, first question from Daniel Seeney. Employee costs were down half and half. Can you provide some color on the drivers there? Oh, is that it, Greg?

Greg Switala
CFO & Company Secretary, Mitchell Services

Can you hear me?

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

Yes.

Greg Switala
CFO & Company Secretary, Mitchell Services

Yeah, look, I think probably just the function of the mix in revenue and perhaps a slight drop in sort of overall utilization. I can't think of anything sort of under there, there's certainly no underlying cost decrease from an employee cost perspective. So I dare say just reflective of the change in mix of work and single shift, double shift mix as well.

Andrew Elf
CEO, Mitchell Services

Yeah. And all I'd add to that is I think that, you know, we've been very disciplined with our overheads. You know, the business is, you know, being run well and managed tightly. And, certainly those overhead labor costs are well in control, too.

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

Thanks, God. Maybe one from me, to Nathan. Can you maybe highlight the growth strategy going forward or the long-term prospects, I guess, sort of drive that top line?

Nathan Mitchell
Executive Chairman, Mitchell Services

Look, I think the overall strategy's been spot on. I think year-over-year now, this is probably a, you know, another good year dividend return to shareholders. I think, you know, certainly we've had a lot of growth, and I suppose the market expects to see more growth. But I think at this stage, like we said last year, we've sort of changed tack and, not changed tack, but essentially spent the money on growth on those rigs. And now we're sort of repaying those profits and dividends back to shareholders. Look, we'll continue to look for growth. I think, you know, the market in the juniors is softening. We know that. I think, there's less income coming into the juniors. Doesn't affect our business as much as it does probably the junior drillers, but certainly we're seeing a change there.

We probably anticipated that as a strategy years ago. That's the reason why we stayed in coal. It's the reason why we stayed with the majors. And again, I think it's delivering when others aren't. I think Western Australia's obviously still fairly strong, but East Coast is changing on the juniors and the gold front. But from a growth point of view, we're always looking for growth. We're certainly looking for opportunities all the time, but we're in no rush. And I think we've seen that over the last five years. We're really on our own timeframe and our own time horizon. And so far, you know, the steps we've been taking have been the right steps. And, you know, we'll always look for new opportunities. I think we're being approached daily from small drilling contractors to buy.

It's not a great sign for the juniors, but fundamentally, we're in a pretty good position. So I think we'll, as I say, if there's new contracts coming and we need to invest in CapEx, if they make sense, then we will. If they don't, then we'll just continue with what we're doing at the moment.

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

Got it. Thanks, thanks, Nathan. Another question from Daniel. The ongoing maintenance CapEx budget of AUD 15 million, does this include budgeted replacement upgrades of some of the rig fleet? And if so, how many rigs will be replaced each year, and what is the average lifespan of a rig?

Andrew Elf
CEO, Mitchell Services

Yeah, look, it's a difficult one to answer because there's different types of rigs conducting different types of work. And you know, life on one, even though you know, you might have the same rig, the life can be significantly different depending on what it's doing. So the best way to think of it is the rigs will last a long, long time, you know, well in excess of 10 years, and they just get rebuilt, and they go back out again. But at the same time, you know, you're constantly selling this and buying that, you know, in the ordinary course of business. And certainly, you know, from our perspective, that's something that we will continue to do. I probably think, you know, looking forwards, you know, you're not gonna be at CapEx of AUD 15 million, you know, moving forwards.

I think probably 17.5, Greg, you know, plus minus is probably a reasonable number to sort of work from. But there'll always be rigs getting bought and sold. And generally, you do, I don't know, maybe two or three a year, Nathan. You sort of.

Nathan Mitchell
Executive Chairman, Mitchell Services

Yeah, maybe.

Andrew Elf
CEO, Mitchell Services

You know, you might buy two or three new ones and sell a couple of old ones and that sort of thing. Then you've got your maintenance CapEx that's ongoing, too. And as Nathan said, if something comes up that's interesting and meets your investment hurdles, you might, you know, buy a handful of rigs and allocate it to growth CapEx if it's a good opportunity. So, but that's probably the best way to answer that one. But really, you've always got rigs coming in and getting rigs, those sort of things. And really, you know, there's no big CapEx blowout coming. It's just not. It's just AUD 17.5 in the ordinary course of business maintains the fantastic fleet we've got. You know, it's available for us to use and generate earnings.

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

Thanks, Andrew. Another question from Tom. At times, you've provided guidance range in the past. Momentum appears solid. Is there any reason why you're not sorry, why you're providing FY2024 directional guidance that is high revenue and EBITDA as opposed to a range?

Andrew Elf
CEO, Mitchell Services

You, you wanna answer, Nathan? You want me to answer?

Nathan Mitchell
Executive Chairman, Mitchell Services

No, I think, you know, guidance is such a difficult situation in this industry. You know, and to be honest, it's only a negative. We had this conversation yesterday in the board meeting, and I'm being honest and open here. And that is that you give guidance, and essentially, you know, you lose a contract where there comes. And really, it's only a negative guidance. And we could do better. We could give guidance on the upside, but it could change overnight. And so you just get, you know, you just get hit by that. You know, so essentially, your guidance is really on the downside. And so I don't in this industry. It's just, I think, too difficult and too risky to give guidance.

I think the best thing we can do is just run our business well and run it properly. I think QValue and Morgans have done an excellent job on the research to date. You know, I think our job is to run the business as well as we possibly can and deliver back, you know, for shareholders, via either growth, dividends, or debt reduction. That's our focus, really.

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

Thanks, Nathan. Question from Neil Watson. Can you comment on the expectations for utilization of the underground fleet, which dropped off in the first half?

Andrew Elf
CEO, Mitchell Services

Yeah, look, I mean, all we can say is, you know, we've said that we've got 98 rigs in the fleet. You know, there's five rigs there that are old. And I dare say we'll get scrapped at some point in time. So you've got an effective fleet in the business of 93 rigs is the best way to look at it. And then obviously, you sort of go, "Okay, well, what is the average operating rig count, you know, as a percentage of 93?" You know, we've sort of been in that 70s type range. We've sort of been low 70s, mid 70s, high 70s. You know, that sort of level on 93 rigs is about 84% or so or 80%-ish utilization, which is a decent number, you know.

So really, looking at that underground market, that's where we've got some idle capacity. Obviously, the BD teams are targeting some opportunities in that space. But I certainly can't sit here and say, "This is what the number's gonna be," hopefully higher. And as I said during the presentation, we had a couple of rigs go out at the start of the year, too. So, main thing for me is if that number, you know, stays up in the 80s, then this business is gonna generate some good returns for the shareholders.

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

Thank you, Andrew. I guess that leads into the next question from Tom. Are you expecting any asset sales in the second half? What asset proceeds are still available to allocate into the buyback?

Greg Switala
CFO & Company Secretary, Mitchell Services

I'm happy, yeah, to take this one. I mean, we do have a couple of older rigs that in the fleet that are sort of due. One of those, you know, sort of significant end-of-life rebuilds, if you like. So, you know, the potential for a sale on one of those is always looked at. At this stage, we wouldn't necessarily say we're expecting to sell them. But, you know, constantly something that's being looked at. In terms of existing proceeds available, we're down probably to about AUD 200,000, to be honest.

and that's sort of reflective in the sort of volumes that you're seeing with the buyback currently, which for the short term we'd continue to, you know, to look to continue to allocate there at the same sort of levels given, as I said, there are only, you know, about AUD 200,000 worth of proceeds still remaining.

Andrew Elf
CEO, Mitchell Services

Yeah. And I think just further to Greg's comment there that I think excess asset sales are done, to be honest. You know, it's a case now of you might sell one, but you might buy one, or you might sell one, and you might get something else. And, and I think really, you know, near on the basis that the excess asset sales have been completed, you know, it's something for Nathan and the board to consider in due course, you know, the allocation of, of shareholder returns. You know, obviously, up to 75% of NPAT. You know, again, it's up to Nathan and the board to, to decide how they wanna distribute that once those funds that Greg mentioned there are, are being exhausted. But, but certainly with the share price where it still is, I think the view is that it's, it's still, you know, undervalued, Nathan.

Nathan Mitchell
Executive Chairman, Mitchell Services

Yeah.

Andrew Elf
CEO, Mitchell Services

And attractive to buy back.

Nathan Mitchell
Executive Chairman, Mitchell Services

Yeah, I think this year, we've allocated the full, you know, 75% of NPAT to dividends. But I think, you know, we'll continue to look at that next year and next quarter and next half. Again, from our point of view, it's really, you know, the four pillars: debt reduction, growth, dividends, and buybacks. And really, it's just a matter of working out which one of those that we wanna allocate more or less to. But this year, we, you know, we wanted to commit to the 0.75, 75% of NPAT. We wanted to give that back. We wanted to be able to prove what we said we were gonna do, and we've done. Then going forward, let's see where the market goes, see how the market reacts to today's announcements.

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

Thanks, Nathan. Another question from Daniel. Are there any new commodities or geographies that you're looking to get into over the near term?

Andrew Elf
CEO, Mitchell Services

Yeah, I mean, we're actively always actively looking for opportunities. You know, we're certainly not rushing into new commodities as such. I wouldn't say. And we're certainly not rushing over to Western Australia. Again, we've said that we will work over in Western Australia for the right clients on the right contracts. But we're certainly not looking at rushing over there and putting a flag in the ground. Again, we've got some wonderful clients that work all over the world. If a good opportunity came up with one of those clients, in a foreign jurisdiction, you know, multi-rig, multi-year contract that hits the right numbers, we'd always look at it. You know, we'd absolutely hang onto the coattails of those global major miners and go with them on their journey wherever it may be.

You know, again, we're not actively rushing off anywhere in the near term as such. But certainly, if something came up, you know, again, as Nathan said, we'd always look at it.

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

Okay, Greg. Another one from Daniel. With the business now in a scale position backed by a lot of large, high-quality customers, what sort of through-the-cycle of debt levels do you think is appropriate going forwards?

Nathan Mitchell
Executive Chairman, Mitchell Services

A hard one. We've said 15 is the number, you know. We may again, one of those pillars is debt. Debt, we may bring that down, you know, if we're not happy where with the additional growth in the market. So again, I think ideally, lower the debt is better, you know, just where things are softening. So but we can turn that dial pretty quickly up and down, depending on again, as Andrew just said, if we had a major that wanted a number of rigs, then we'd have to dial that debt back up as long as those hurdles are reached, and/or we'd dial it back down depending upon, you know, where the market's sitting and if we're comfortable where we are and we've reduced that debt even further. But at this stage, we've made the decision that we'll keep it around 15.

But again, we're actively looking at it, you know, on a monthly board meeting.

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

Yeah. Thanks, Nathan. Another question from Tom. Where do you think we are in the rate cycle? Are customers comfortable with your long-term margin targets closer to 20%?

Andrew Elf
CEO, Mitchell Services

Yeah, I don't think the customers are comfortable with us making a great deal of money at the best of times. They, they love they love seeing us do a great job and be safe and, and all those sort of things and bring innovation to the table. But as, as long as we're just sort of getting by. But, but look, we have got some fantastic customers. And obviously, inflation ran away pretty quick, pretty hard. And as Greg said in his presentation, you know, we've reset the contract book now. We maybe got I think maybe one to go. But all the contracts and the prices and everything have been reset, and we're sort of back to a, a business-as-usual sort of position now. I think getting rates up rate increases above inflation from this point moving forward will be tough, Nathan.

Nathan Mitchell
Executive Chairman, Mitchell Services

Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Elf
CEO, Mitchell Services

So you're sort of probably limited to inflationary increases from here or, you know, sector, you know, calculated indices and things like that from here. But certainly, you know, we always say our target is a 20% EBITDA, and then it flows down to a good level of NPAT, and with some of the benefits below the line that Greg spoke about, too. But certainly, if we're up near that number, I still think it's a good number. So obviously, you can people can see where we came out for the first half. You know, we'd like to equal that or do a bit better in the second half if we can. But again, as a team, it's always something that we're focused on and trying to improve and do better.

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

Thanks, Andrew.

Speaker 5

Maybe a quick one from me, if that's all right. Just looking at obviously, the revenue being, you know, fairly constant from H1 2023. And then you give the comments that you had wet weather in the previous period, and obviously balanced by some of the underground rig utilization obviously tapering off, but then EBITDA obviously up by 20%, 21%. Is that a function more of sort of having that service fleet, you know, on standby versus active rates, which are a higher margin, and then, you know, somewhat moderated by just not having that utilization of those underground rigs? Like, I'm just trying to understand. You've obviously much better margin if you've got the rigs turning as opposed to sitting around doing nothing in wet weather scenario in the previous half.

Yeah, just the balance of those, those competing elements to end up with flat revenue versus 21% increased EBITDA.

Greg Switala
CFO & Company Secretary, Mitchell Services

Yeah, I think that's fair enough. We've always sort of said there is a level of protection in the contract for wet weather. So you're not gonna lose money necessarily. You'll be able to charge a standby rate of sorts. But obviously, you do lose your margin. So I think your analysis is spot on. You know, weather impacted previous half, those rigs by definition still earned a revenue.

Speaker 5

Yeah.

Greg Switala
CFO & Company Secretary, Mitchell Services

Just a lower one. And that's really just enough to cover costs. Whereas, yeah, we're in a scenario where it's the opposite. Revenues earned at a higher margin. And I suppose, again, just a mix or shift in the mix of revenue as well is probably driven the fact that, you know, that the revenue sort of appears flat, but the margin's up. It probably talks to the shift in the mix as well. But definitely, your points around the wet weather and the standby and the margin dilution are spot on.

Andrew Elf
CEO, Mitchell Services

Yeah. And again, it's always difficult to sit here and pick it apart. It's, you know, there's surface rigs and underground rigs. And as Greg says, the mix, it's sort of moved from 50 surface, 50 underground to 55 surface, 45 underground. The surface rigs are bigger. They're more expensive. They've got a higher capital cost. They invoice more per shift. And so as Greg says, when he talked about that mix, it's a case of less underground rigs working, that work a lot of shifts at a lower revenue and probably margin number, you know, with a higher proportion of surface income, less rigs, less shifts, higher income per shift. So, you know, that will move around a little bit based on what's happening in the particular quarter or half. But, yeah.

Speaker 5

No, thank you.

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

Thanks, Andrew. Another question from Tom. You referenced some easing inflationary pressure. Do you think the labor and consumer rules cost can ease from current run rates?

Nathan Mitchell
Executive Chairman, Mitchell Services

Don't know. I don't think so. You know, unfortunately, in the labor now, we've got the new IR rules. You know, that's gonna add cost to labor every time a contract finishes now. So I think that's just right across the board of Australia, not just our business. So whilst I don't think labor, wages as in demand for higher wages will be there, there's gonna be government costs that now weren't there before that are now there. Consumables, potentially. Again, if demand drops, prices will drop. The juniors aren't buying the consumables. Obviously, potentially, that might come down. But I would more than guess that they'll just stay constant.

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

Thanks, Nathan. I think the next one's for you as well, Nathan, from Stephen. I'm assuming CR means the last call. You spoke about the business having EBITDA coming in at around AUD 50 million, but the possibility of AUD 55 million or more in a supportive environment.

Nathan Mitchell
Executive Chairman, Mitchell Services

I think, and I think the question was asked of us back then was, you know, what is a company capable of doing if it's running, you know, full throttle, all rigs operating, you know, based on that? The business has the capability of doing 50-55 based on that. And you can escalate that out based on 70-odd rigs running versus 90-odd rigs running. So I think, yeah, it's capable of doing that in the right circumstances, you know, and in the right market. But we're starting to see, you know, the miners the juniors softening. So, you know, if we get them all working, I think we could, with the rates that we've now got and the reset of the numbers that we've got.

Yeah, that's still a doable number in the right circumstances.

Andrew Elf
CEO, Mitchell Services

And I think, you know, just further to that, that last quarter that we had in FY 2023 shows it can be done, you know. But as Nathan said, you need everything going and everything in your favor. You know, it's, it's certainly got the ability to do it. You just need everything going and, and everything in your favor. And, and again, we're as Nathan says, we're patient, too. You know, we're not just gonna put idle rigs out for the sake of putting idle rigs out, you know, and, and making a, a poor margin, and then all you've got to do is have a CapEx bill to rebuild those rigs. You know, we'd, we'd rather leave the rigs parked up, wait for the right client, the right job, the right opportunity, and then make a good return.

So, just again, that patience will always hold us in good stead. So, you know, we had a great Q4 last year. I mean, and they're not always all gonna be like that as we've seen. But certainly, you know, if you've got everything in your favor, the fleet we've got, you know, it can be achieved.

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

Thanks, Andrew. Thanks, Nathan. And that's the last of the questions so far. If there's any more, just quickly type in. Otherwise, we'll leave it at that. One last one from Jason. With tax losses on the books likely to remain for the next financial year or two, why is emphasis on capital returns greater for dividends instead of the value accrued with buybacks at this current share price?

Nathan Mitchell
Executive Chairman, Mitchell Services

I think it was really about following through on what we said. You know, I certainly like buybacks for the longer-holding shareholders. But fundamentally, we as a board decided that, you know, we will go ahead and do the full 75%. We wanted to show our shareholders and the market that we can deliver on that. You know, so again, to the previous question, whilst we'd all like to be able to get to AUD 50 million EBITDA, our position is to run a good business and return dividends and, you know, show that this is a genuine business that can actually deliver that on what we say it can. We could change that next year, and we'll see how that runs. But yeah, I agree. There's certainly, again, different pillars that we can pull.

This year was about delivering on what we said we were gonna do. And that's what we've done.

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

Thanks, Nathan. Okay. That was the last, guys. Again, well done. Thanks for your time today. For the audience, this, again, is recorded, and I'll, I'll circulate it once it's ready. So Nathan, Andrew, Greg, thanks for your time today.

Andrew Elf
CEO, Mitchell Services

Many thanks, everyone.

Greg Switala
CFO & Company Secretary, Mitchell Services

Thanks very much.

Nathan Mitchell
Executive Chairman, Mitchell Services

Thanks, everyone. Thanks, everyone.

Allen Chan
Executive Director, Bridge Street Capital Partners

See you.

Nathan Mitchell
Executive Chairman, Mitchell Services

Bye.

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