T hank you for standing by. Welcome to the PWR Holdings Limited FY 2022 results presentation. All participants are in listen-only mode. There'll be a presentation followed by a question and answer session. If you'd like t o ask a question, you'll need to press the star key followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. I'd now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Kees Weel, MD, CEO, and Executive Director. Please go ahead.
Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. Good morning, ladies and gents. Another nice day here in Brisbane. Look, I'll go straight into the business side of it. I think you've all probably seen and had a fairly good look through, so I don't wanna go into too much depth. But I'm sure if there's any questions later on, if I have missed something and someone will certainly pull me up. Look, we're certainly a strong growth through all sectors of the business and very happy how that's all gone. The OEM growth, obviously, a few of the new OEM programs are coming online now with a 65% growth against last year.
Aerospace and defense, as everybody knows, that's a small part of the business, right at the moment and expanding rapidly. It was heavily weighted to the second half. Motorsports, as a lot of you know, I did call it out this time last year or thereabout, and said it'd be fairly flat. I guess with 23% growth, I suppose that's not flat. The auto aftermarket, a steady increase, a little bit off the mark where we'd like to be, to be dead honest, but it's a little bit of growth in there at 6%. Emerging tech, we all know how I've called that out in the past, how we think that growth is across the business.
You know, at over 100% growth and nearly 20% of the group revenue, it's a pretty solid start. The NPAT conversion against revenue, very, very good to be on the positive side of the 20%. The final dividend of AUD 0.085 per share, which will be paid out in September, with a total of AUD 0.12 per share for the year. Just moving on, performance and challenges. We all know about the COVID. We don't have to talk about that. We still get that excuse every day. The border closures have certainly been a problem to get staff in through our borders. That's opening up a little bit.
The vaccine mandate, we are still a double vax company, so no jab, no job, basically. Our performance challenges wouldn't be surprising that our supply chain is obviously at a bit of pressure of lead times and the minimum order quantities, et cetera. You know, the cash operating deal is we've put in, certainly, which we can talk about later on, a lot of cash into inventory to make sure we have got it. As we all know, I keep telling people, "Aluminum doesn't rust," and we'd rather be looking at it than looking for it. Recruitment and retention, a worldwide problem there.
I think every business in the world has got the same problems. We would like to think that we're getting closer and closer to be on top of that every day. Inflation. I don't have to talk about that. It gets hammered in the press every day. We know what that is. Performance overview. I guess just looking at the key points really, the numbers are the numbers. You know, we're very happy with our top performance, certainly a strong second half, which represented 55% of the revenue.
You know, it wasn't that long ago, we were, you know, the 35/65 split, then it went to 60/40, and this last year, it's obviously 45/55. It makes it less lumpy, and it's certainly very good for us, easier to manage that way. I'm not gonna run through the particular numbers. It's there in print. We don't wanna get too excited about that. Our performance trend, it's right across the board. It's very, very good across the board on that. You can see the graphs there, it's self-explanatory. Our where we sit in the top 50 companies of the ASX 300.
You know, we're around about that 36. I think it's tidy, and it certainly puts it in good stead to where we wanna be. Certainly, we've cut out a different revenue by customer market here. You'll see the numbers now of what we call advanced cooling and then also emerging tech. Very good how Martin has pulled it out because we get a lot of questions on that. It's you can see the percentage of the growth, et cetera, in each sector. Motorsport really across the board, nothing extraordinary on any particular key market there. Certainly on emerging tech in motorsport, including MicroMatrix, there's been a big push there.
OEM, the Valkyrie and certainly the X1 programs and Rimac are a very up-and-coming part of the OEM area. Auto aftermarket, as I said before, probably a smaller growth than we anticipate, but that's mainly through capacity, which we'll talk about later on. Aerospace defense, it was a bit of a timing thing for the first and second half. Certainly had a very strong result in the second half. That will always be a little bit lumpy for first and second half, how contracts fall, et cetera, et cetera. Revenue by currency, very evident that the GP is a big number for us.
We have forward contracts out for six months at a time. We're very, excuse me, covered with that. Pretty straightforward. Operating expenses, as I said before, the cash conversion for raw material. You'll see that the usage of raw materials certainly increased significantly. Employee expenses because of further headcount. We have now roughly 450 globally. Our predictions were to be 450 at the end of this calendar year. We're a little bit ahead of the curve there. A few extra expenses of occupancy expenses and other expenses.
It's broken up in the description that we have under there. I think that's reasonably well. We are very cautious on cost and cost containment, which I think flows down to the bottom line anyway. Balance sheet still a very strong balance sheet in our opinion. I don't think I need to go through every line there. You know, we are still doing a lot of CapEx, which we'll talk about shortly, out of cash in the bank balances. I think balance sheet's very good.
The cash movement, I don't think we need to go into too much of that. It's very positive. Nothing stands out that we need to be concerned about. As you know, obviously, as I said a minute ago, the capital investment is all financed from operating cash flows, et cetera. Our liquidity position is strong. Our cash reserves of a bit over AUD 20 million, and we have AUD 17.5 million of undrawn finance facilities at foot. Global operations, we can just another page to show we're very global across the world, and it's increasing daily. Our business outlook, our organic growth, very happy how that is progressing.
Motorsports continue to be across all major categories. OEM programs, you'll see in the pipeline, which we'll get to shortly. It's very self-explanatory there. Aerospace and defense certainly with the NADCAP accreditation and our accreditation program is certainly well ahead of schedule. Automotive aftermarket was probably, as I said earlier, a little bit under where we thought it'd be, but it's capacity and we certainly are addressing that as we speak. Emerging technology business outlook. The EV electric vehicle market is very strong in... I guess we look at it more so of the NDAs that we sign daily.
There's a very big push in that side of the market across the globe. Cold plates, particularly in aerospace and defense, very busy in that sector. Micro Matrix for motorsport and aerospace and defense is certainly a growing part of the market. Additive manufacturing, we've certainly continued to develop our knowledge and also our capability with our technical partner, Velo3D. The business outlook for aerospace and defense very strong half on the for FY22. That's more of a timing thing. The Australian defense, we expect that decision to be made.
I know I don't wanna say too much 'cause the rest of the world is talking about it, and everybody has an opinion. I don't think anybody knows. Our internal knowledge of that is that [audio distortion] hopes to do an announcement sometime in September. International travel has opened up. I've just come back from a trip to the U.K. and also America. We've had our engineers on the road first time in two years in May. Four of our engineers have went to sales, and engineering staff went to the U.K. to visit customers, et cetera. Prototypes, it's very busy.
Our R&D and prototypes is very busy and a lot of that will come to fruition. eVTOL, the EV market on that, I think everybody knows that they have dedicated an area at the Brisbane Airport now for the future of that. That's obviously not far from happening. Hydrogen fuel cell technology has certainly been a big focus in some of our R&D areas. That's another area that we feel we doing a fair bit of business in in the future. I've already spoken about the Nadcap accreditation. Pipelines, as everybody knows, we're very reluctant to put customer names in there.
When it gets to a nominated supplier, we certainly put the car, et cetera in there, what have you. It's certainly a busy area. You know, the pipeline for automotive OEM is very strong, leading into the next five to six to seven years. Other pipelines, you know, MMX, cold plates and aerospace and defense and energy. It's very similar and, you know, I think everybody knows what's coming there and I think it'll be an interesting couple of years ahead of how that pans out. Planning for the future and our future success. We are certainly laying the foundations for future growth and success.
We continue to partner with the customers to develop leading-edge technology, etc. We ensure to ensure our position to capitalize future opportunities over medium, long term are investing in people, investing in capability and capacity, and certainly investing in staff retention. More into our people investment of our headcount. You know, I touched on it earlier of the headwinds for recruitment across the globe for everybody in all businesses. It is certainly a big topic. We've certainly increased our apprentice program, which will, you know, coming up towards the end of this calendar year, we will be obviously increasing that once again.
The graduate engineering program has certainly taken off, very good. Our global engineer exchange program has started. We've signed up a guy to go to North America. He'll be going in the next two to three weeks for a two-year stint. A guy from our engineering department to go to the U.K., and that'll be happening in January/February. Work experience programs with the local schools, et cetera, is very strong, and we've certainly got a lot of students on work experience coming in during the holidays. Investing in capability and capacity.
You see a photo of the new building there in the U.S. I was over there, two weeks ago, a week and a half ago. Yeah, we're just waiting for the power to be put on there. Yeah, that is way behind. There's obviously been delays in building materials and switchboards, et cetera, et cetera. That is certainly behind schedule. We are assured that we'll have power there within the next two weeks. That's the factory footprint in there. Australia, we're working on designs and layout on a new factory plan to support our next 10-20 years. That'll be a new 10-ac site.
We're working on conceptual drawings right now, and we plan to move into that site in 2025. We're reviewing our options to commence small-scale manufacturing in the U.K. It's well down the track. There'll be more to come on that next couple of weeks. Certifications spoken about before with Nadcap and AS9100 and ISO 14001. Certainly been a big push for that over the last six months to get that in place. Staff retention is damn hard. Everybody knows that. We have extended our STI program and also our LTI program for people that mean a lot to the company and what have you.
In our career development planning, we're always planning and training pathways for young people to make a pathway in the company. Supervisor training ongoing. We've you know, I guess when you grow as quick as we have, it is a problem. You just lack that supervision training and sometimes it can catch you out. Our employee assistance program, we've got a lot of support to our staff and their families. Yeah, we've had financial people come in and talk to all our staff for any financial issues they have. It's like a private bank, if you like. That has been very well received by everybody.
Willie's Diner still going strong. When we floated in 2015, we probably had 85 people at Ormeau. Now we have 340+. You can imagine the Willie's Diner is pretty busy during meal breaks and what have you. That's really a very good snapshot. We're very pleased with the overall result. Very pleased with our NPAT percentage on revenue. We'll continue to have a very strong focus on that. Really, I think that's about it for me. Happy to take questions and I'll leave it to the organizers to go on to the questions.
Thank you. If you'd like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. If you'd like to cancel your request, please press star two. If you are on a speakerphone, please pick up the handset to ask your question. Your first question comes from Alex Lu from Morgans Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah.
Can I just start off with F1, please, and just noticed yesterday that you know, the new regulations got approved with the power units for 2026.
Yeah.
You know, increased electrical power and also the use of 100% sustainable fuel. The other thing I noticed was them looking to reduce the overall cost of power units. Just wondering if you can make a few comments around those changes and whether you see that as positive or negative, please?
There's two things that come out in the last 24-48 hours. One is the regulations for next year, which is basically unchanged. That's very positive for us. We certainly don't see that as a negative, and I think when you talk about cost cuts. I think that phrase is a little bit out of whack, 'cause I do see the invoices that go out and people that spend the money. I think the cost-cutting is a little bit out of whack on our side that they might cut costs in other areas. There's certainly on the cooling side, we feel it seems to be the status quo.
For the regulations in 2026, there is certainly some changes there. When there's a change in regulation, Alex, we see that as a positive, because there is a whole new cooling program and a whole lot of R&D, and I'd say that R&D would start next week. We're already anticipating. Some of the teams have already anticipated some of the new program coming in 2026. We've already started on some R&D programs. No, I think it's a positive in both areas and certainly no negatives whatsoever.
Okay, that's good to hear. Can I just move on. I just noticed that it's very small, but I noticed that you raised the provision for a bad debt of about AUD 133,000. Just wondering what that was related to, please?
That debt has now been paid.
Okay. That's not relevant anymore?
Still relevant.
Okay. Finally, on the U.K., so just noticed you obviously made some comments around commencing small-scale manufacturing to support the European market. Just wondering, you know, what types of products you're looking to manufacture and would you look to increase capacity in the U.K. over time?
Yeah. We're looking to relieve some capacity of our Australian branch and also our American branch. We do a lot of mid-range coolers for the European market, other than F1 and, you know, we intend to put together a small fabrication plant over there. I think there'll be more to come out of that in the next couple of weeks. You know, we've been looking at different opportunities there for some time. I was over there a couple of weeks ago, and we are putting some stuff together that will help us with our capacity constraint, particularly here in Australia and America.
If we can do certain part numbers in the U.K., that'll help us a lot, and that'll allow us to do more product here in America.
Okay. All right. Thanks a lot, guys.
Thank you.
Thanks, Alex.
Thank you. Your next question comes from Chris Savage of Bell Potter. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Morning, Kees. Morning, Martin.
Morning, Chris. How are you?
Glad to hear it's a nice day in Queensland.
Beautiful day. Absolute cracker. A bit like the result, mate.
Fantastic. Hey, Kees, I know you're reluctant to talk about this defense contract, but I'll choose my question carefully. There's been media reports recently that the size of that has reduced from 450 to 300 vehicles. Are you able to confirm that? And if so, does it alter the annual production, or is it just gonna be reduced, like, from the 15 years to 10 years or something like that?
Yeah. I'll let.
Yeah.
Martin probably knows a little bit more than that, but look, I don't pay too much what reporters say out there. You know, we're very close to that because we're in both camps, as you know, with Rheinmetall and Hanwha. Do you wanna comment on that, Martin?
Yeah. Obviously it's an area that's continuing to move. We understand one of the options being considered is 300 with options for 50, increments of 50 vehicles to increase that. I think the summary is not quite settled as to what the full program will be. We understand that will likely just impact how long the program runs for, not the annual production.
Yeah. When would you expect first revenue from that contract?
Once the announcement occurs, there'll be down selection to confirm each of the component suppliers. From FY 2024 onwards, there'll be pre-works into small run program up to full production in 2026.
Martin, this one's probably also more so for you. Just the currency, I know you always forward hedge 50%, six months or so.
Yeah.
The pound's obviously weakened in the last several months, so I assume you've, you know, there's been a change in the hedging rate versus last year. Can you talk about what the impact of that will be in FY23?
It certainly impacts us when the pound weakens. We have our hedging out to the end of December at this stage, and we'll continue to monitor when the appropriate time is to extend that further. The reason for doing that is just to, I suppose, limit the variation for us. The hedging is a 50% hedge against the downside movement or the weakening of the pound. We have a 75% upside if the pound strengthens. It's really just limiting or protecting on the downside.
Sure.
As best we can. The other, I suppose, pleasing aspect, I suppose over the coming years, as we look to expand our footprint or our activity in the U.K., that will also assist to buffer any movement of the pound.
Sure. Kees, you mentioned inflation at the start of your presentation. Are you planning or thinking about putting any price rises through this year, financial year?
We've already done that, 5%. Have we done that or is it going to first?
Yeah. That started. It's that that went through in July.
Is that just motorsport or across the whole company?
Across the whole board.
Okay.
That's for news from that time.
Sure. Just last question again, forgive me, Martin, probably more so for you. Just the CapEx. Like it came in at AUD 5. I think the second half was only AUD one and a half versus AUD 3.5 In the first half. Just seemed a bit of a drop off. What sort of CapEx level should we anticipate for this year and going forward?
We're expecting in the order of 10 back to our usual level. It was impacted by timing of, lead time of
Equipment.
Equipment. We've got orders in, and we've increased those orders, put more orders in since the end of the year. There's generally a 12-month lead time on major items. Because those lead times are blown out, that CapEx has rolled into this year.
Did you say this is gonna be more like a AUD 10 million CapEx figure?
Back to around the normal levels, because of that, I suppose that delay has now folded everything back, six months or so.
Great. Thank you. Cheers.
Thank you. Once again, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. Your next question comes from [Sarah Mann] of Morgans Australia. Please go ahead.
Morning, guys.
Morning, Sarah.
Morning. Just a question on that inventory. Clearly, you know, lead times, et cetera, it's totally prudent to hold more stock. Just trying to understand like how much of the uplift in inventory was from cost inflation versus holding, do you know, just holding higher levels of stock?
The vast majority of it was higher levels of stock. The incremental price increases did a great proportion of that at all.
Got it. In terms of lead times, I mean, have you seen that start to move at all or it's still kind of staying at, kinda consistently elevated?
It is leveling out a little bit there, but it's certainly longer than it's been in other years, for sure. You know, I think the people that know me well, you know, I do have a saying, you're better off looking at it than looking for it. Really, you know, we had to make a decision of, well, cash in the bank, what does that give us? Raw material with the price increase, while we have that stock for the raw material, it certainly would probably balance out, if you had the money in the bank.
Probably the main thing is that, you know, the lead times have always been fairly long anyway, and because we are probably not 100% sure of everything that is happening on a weekly, monthly part of the business, we certainly keep extra stock in case of push-in on emergency programs, which there's a lot of in our business. Yeah, we've certainly increased our stock holding. As I say to people, you know, aluminum doesn't go rusty. I think it's better than money in the bank.
Sure. That makes sense. In terms of the pipeline, so you've given a lot more color this time than normal, which is good. Some of the contracts that you flagged are, you know, quite large.
Yeah.
Long duration, particularly on the OEM front. Can you just give us, I guess, a bit of color around, you know, what kind of automation and investment in capacity will need to happen to support those contracts and just, you know, some idea around the timing and the quantum of the CapEx spend around that too, please?
Yeah, that's a very good question. Yeah, there some of those larger programs, we certainly will be investing some automation, 'cause the volumes of the parts are significant. So we're already started to do some R&D and initial works on automation, for those contracts that are coming up in, you know, 2025 and 2026 particularly. We have time on our side, but we wanna be in front of the game, for that.
As far as expenditure goes, I think we'll be able to certainly handle that with our normal CapEx, with you know, I think you could safely say our normal CapEx over the next two to three years will be around about AUD 10 million per year in that circa. I don't think there's gonna be a large spike in CapEx. I think there'll certainly be a spike for our new building, but we're trying to smooth that over a couple of years there. I think that in 2025, you know, our CapEx could be maybe AUD 12 million-AUD 14 million instead of around about that 10 circa. I hope that answers your question there.
Yeah, no, that's excellent. Thank you. Then just like a broader question, lastly. You flagged the opportunity with EVs for OEM customers, clearly pretty sizable. Looking around at who's innovating in the space, it feels like the Chinese manufacturers are really pushing hard into the EV space. And given, you know, you've obviously got a strong relationship with the more premium OEMs in Europe, like, how do you think about, I guess, the risk of the Chinese manufacturers really dominating in this space? Like, is that a negative for you guys, or is it potentially an opportunity? Just interested in your thoughts around that.
Yeah. We're certainly concentrating on the more. How do I say this to be polite? The more prestige vehicle, if you like. You know, somewhere between $150,000-$200,000 and, you know, people on the call probably saying, "Well, that's not many." Well, that's a lot now. You know, those EV programs are certainly a little bit different in what they want for cooling. It's not a made-in-China box. It's certainly a little bit upscale from that. You know, we're not into the millions, if you like, but we're certainly into the thousands of parts.
A few of those are, like, you know, 500,000-600,000 parts. That's where our automation will come in. We're certainly not diluting our price point for that. It's a lot of the technology that we've been able to achieve and collect IP from our association and what we've done, particularly in F1, et cetera. I think it puts us in a different market than the China market. We're still very aware and very eyes wide open, if you like, of how they're pushing into the market. They are. It is significant push that they're doing, as you said.
On the top tier, if you like, of luxury vehicles, we don't see too much of their product going into the top-tier vehicles. I think everybody knows that we have a strong relationship with Rimac in Croatia. We're a very strong partner with Rimac in Croatia. I think people can put two and two together of what programs they're doing across the globe.
Great. Thanks so much.
Thanks.
Thank you. Your next question comes from Raymond Zhang. Please go ahead.
Good morning, guys.
Morning.
I just had a question about, you've mentioned it's been quite challenging in terms of staff retention and just look at the KPIs that were achieved. I noticed the voluntary employee turnover was over 30%. What do you put that down to?
Well, there's probably different areas of employment across the globe, and you have an entry-level, and then you have a tradesman level, and then you have a level above that as in engineers, et cetera, and then senior personnel. They're mainly entry level personnel that, you know, they, you know, when you interview someone, "Yes, I can do this," and, "Yes, I'm a quick learner," and, "Yes, yes." When they find out what the real work's about, they might not be suited. The majority of that is in that entry level. It's not ideal, but it's across the globe. We have the same in America.
We are very, I guess, culturally driven and very strict on our work practices and safety levels and you know not everybody fits that bill. Unfortunately, that does happen. You know, I think we offer a lot for retention, as in meals and uniforms and everything else. If people aren't the right fit, we'd rather know that earlier in the piece than keep people on and then them leaving anyway, and that stops another opportunity.
Okay. You're seeing less, I guess, less turnover in the engineering space, I guess.
Yep, correct.
Yeah. I just had another question. Teresa mentioned in the annual report that investment was made into the frontline leadership just to understand the impact of the behavioral leadership styles. Were there any key findings from that or actionable insights?
Not really, no.
I think the key, it's investing in our supervisors and managers to support the broader team.
Yeah.
We can't just expect them to know intuitively just how to do that without supporting them with the skills to support our broader team.
Okay, great. Thanks for that.
Thank you.
Thank you. Your next question comes from Wayne Jones of Ganes. Please go ahead.
Oh, good morning, Kees. How are you?
Yeah, good, Wayne. How you going, mate?
I'm good. I'm good. Just a question around your R&D, just to get a bit more of a sense of it. Like you spent about AUD 9.7 million this financial year, which you've totally expensed, but how much of that should we sort of think is, you know, sort of gonna have a benefit in the short term? How much, you know, should that, you know, might be three, four, five years? Is it new product, you know, prototyping for new products for years down the track, or are we sort of, you know, going back and just modifying, you know, Micro Matrix and those sorts of things? How do you also think about it? Is it, is it a percentage of revenue, or is it a dollar amount, or is it just what's in front of you and you just keep working on it?
Well, it's mainly what's in front of us, and we keep working on it. You know, we are very committed to R&D across all sectors. I think when you look at particularly Micro Matrix and the emerging tech side of the business, what have you, there's a very big spend in R&D. That's not to say that we're not still spending a considerable amount in you know, our fin and tube development, et cetera, and also our bar and plate part of the business. You know, there's a lot of R&D across all sectors that we continue to push all the time. You know, I think you know what we do down there. You've been down there and we're pushing for perfection every day.
You know, we feel we are the best in the world and that's a big statement. It does take a lot to keep in front of everybody. It's pretty much across the board.
The other part too is it's a combination of R&D that we're doing ourselves to develop, I suppose new approaches, new technologies, understand 3D printing and other, you know, where we can push some of those technologies. Also our customer base, we're fortunate to work with a lot of brilliant customers that are continually challenging us to push the boundaries of what's possible.
Micro Matrix is a real game changer. Is there another Micro Matrix in the pipeline or?
Yes, there is certain areas of Micro Matrix. There is some things developing in the backside of that probably hopefully we can perfect something. You know, it took us you know three or four years to perfect Micro Matrix as it is today. We are working on some lighter versions of Micro Matrix, as you know is a stainless steel tube. We are way down the road in developing it with a very lightweight tube to hopefully try to do a similar heat transfer than the stainless steel tube. You know, you've been there.
I will put it out to the calls here that you know, our AGM will be on premises again this year, and there will be site tours available and anybody who wants to do that prior to the AGM, please book in early. I think there'll be at least you know, spots for 100 to 150 people that can take up those spots. It's changing every day down there.
Okay. Good to hear.
Thank you. Your next question comes from Owen Johnston of UBS. Please go ahead.
Good day, Kees, Martin. Congratulations on the result. Just one question from me. In terms of motorsports, how should we think about that second half revenue profile? I guess, you know, was there an acceleration in that fourth quarter, particularly at the back end? If so, just understanding those drivers. I guess then how should we think about that exit rate of sales growth compared to the rest of the half?
Yeah. Look, you know, motorsports has been a little bit bumpy, but obviously, you know, this second half was very pleasing to do a good result there, but better than expected. I'll be honest with you. Different programs, they're coming in and out. What was the other part of your question?
Oh, just understanding how we should think. I guess what the drivers of that acceleration, if there was one, and how we should think about the exit rate of that sales growth versus the rest of the half.
No, I think Motorsports will be, you know, I've got to be careful what I call flat. But, you know, I think Motorsports will be probably, you know, in around about that 10%-12% growth across the board for this next year. I think the split will be probably weighted a little bit more to the second half, to be honest, of what we're seeing in production and orders for this first half.
Okay. Thanks very much, guys. Cheers.
Thank you. Owen.
Thank you. Your next question comes from Cameron McDonald of E&P. Please go ahead.
Oh, hi, Kees. Hi, Martin.
Yeah. How are you, mate?
Very well. Just a like a follow-on question from that last one. Just wanted to try and delve into a bit more of the business outlook. I mean, the second half has been very strong, obviously, which you've called out. Then, you know, that exit rate coming into FY 2023 on top of the fact that you're opening, you know, a new U.S. factory and, you know, have significantly increased the number of employees you've got. Like, how do we think about that business outlook into 2023? Are we? Do we think that it'll take a slowdown from the rate of, you know, of growth on EBITDA or revenue you've just produced for FY 2022 and then pick up again in FY 2024? Or do you think you'll continue that growth through 2023?
Yeah. No, it's a very good question, actually. You know, we anticipate our 2023 year to be more of a catch-up year to consolidate in all areas. We know we have a very strong book and orders for 2024. You know, yes, though, we certainly feel there'll be some growth against this year, which has been a cracker. But yeah, it won't be as good as what we've done in the growth from 2021 to 2022. Moving into 2024, we feel will be substantial growth in 2024. It's more about you know, continue our training, make solid foundations across our workforce, et cetera.
You know, we're very conscious, if you like, where we are today, the markets for skilled personnel are way up there. We're very conscious that we don't jump in too deep now to, you know, to try to grow too big when the employment market, the way it is. Because then they're already at that level, and it's very hard to come back. With that, excuse me. With that, we feel that it'll be a solid year, but not as good as this last year.
Yeah. Can I just get you to reconfirm your sort of the medium-term view on emerging technology? You still think that will be the sort of same size as motorsport, and sort of what by when?
Yeah. You know, I said a few years ago, excuse me. It'll be a five-year plan, thereabouts. We're into our second year now, and you know, I think you know, you know, when you look at total emerging technology, what we've done and what we'll be doing this year, we'll be well up to that 50% area, probably, thereabouts, of against Motorsport. You know, which is not too bad, and you know, I still think we'll be very close in that fifth year to be level with Motorsport. You know, Motorsport is leveling out, as we all know. Emerging technology is increasing.
I think another two years we'll be level with it, and we'll certainly push ahead from that.
That's great. Thanks, guys.
Thank you.
Thank you. Your next question comes from Quinn King of Q&N Investments. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Hi, Kees and Martin. Congratulations. Morning. Congratulations to you and the team on an exceptional result. If I understand your business correctly, you have a lot of internal intellectual property and/or company secrets in regards to your products. Is it possible for China or another country to copy this? Just following on from that, what do you think your company's biggest moat is?
Two questions there. No, it's well, you know, we're a different market to China and you know, I think we've proven that in where we are with the technology push and who our customer base is, et cetera, et cetera. It's certainly you know, we don't feel that and I'm not being geographic about my comment there about China. It's got its place in all markets and but we are not in that market and what have you. That there what our moat is, look, we're very strong with our IP and technology push across the board.
I don't wanna be sounding too cocky about it, but I don't think there's any company in the world that can do everything that we do under one roof. We do everything ourselves. We do not get anything in to rebrand it or do this or an add-on or whatever. We're in total control of all our manufacturing and total control of all our IP and our trade secrets, et cetera, et cetera. Yes, it's certainly not, you know, we're not competing against China and they're not competing against us.
The other aspect, Quinn, is that we provide a very flexible options to our customers. We really partner with the customers to solve their thermal needs. We're not stuck to selling one product. It's really about working with the customers closely to understand what their need is and the best result with all of their drivers. We can offer them a range of options.
Thanks. That's really helpful. Just one more question if I can. I'd like to see founders in the company, forever. Kees, do you plan on retiring? I hope not. If so, when?
Have you been looking at my pictures lately, or?
You're still a young man.
I'm not that gray. No, I got no immediate plan to retire or some days I wake up and thought, "Shit, you know, things are a bit hard." No, when you wake up and that's what drives me is the enjoyment and the challenge to be the best in the world. I'm being very fortunate that we've been able to put a very strong and dedicated workforce around me. They make me look good. Yes, I know there's gotta be a pilot somewhere. I still love the challenge and that's what gets me up in the morning. No, we're very committed for the medium to long-term future.
Excellent. Thank you. Thanks very much. Much appreciated.
Okay.
Bye.
Thank you. As there are no further questions at this time, I'll now hand back to Mr. Kees Weel for any closing remarks.
Okay. Thank you very much for everybody that's been on the call and the questions that there's no question that's a silly question, as we know. As I iterated before, our AGM, I think is about the November 4th. Close. Martin is giving me the nod. But yes, it'll be the same deal. You know, we'll have a barbecue lunch and board meeting. Oh, sorry, and the AGM, I should say. But we'll certainly make sure anybody that wants to do a factory tour prior. I think the tours start at 8:30 A.M. that morning.
Yes, I know, but I think now that the borders are opened up and what have you, it gives everybody an equal chance to be there. I would recommend anybody that's interested to get in early as soon as the information goes live for orders being taken for that. Thanks very much for everybody on the call this morning. It's been fantastic and look forward to talking to everybody at the AGM. Thank you.
That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.