Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the PWR Holdings Limited Market Update. All participants are in a listen-only mode. There will be a presentation followed by a question-and-answer session. If you wish to ask a question, you will need to press the star key, followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Kees Weel, Managing Director. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good afternoon. Thanks for joining the call today. We have had a number of questions come through about our announcement this morning. I will go through those questions and the answers we have available, and at the end of my presentation, I'll answer any other questions that anybody may have. We have about nine or 10 questions. So the first question is, what will be the full impact on the full-year revenue and NPAT result? Through our ongoing reforecasting activities, it became apparent that the first half would be lower than originally anticipated, hence today's trading update. Clearly, this is lower first half, but also impacts the full year of 2025 result. While we are not providing a full-year update at this time, when there is more to say on that front, we will update the market.
We would add that we remain very positive on the medium-long-term outlook for PWR. In particular, while revenue for the OE and aftermarket has been lower than expected for the first half of 2025, the medium-long-term outlook on the other sectors to the second half of 2025 and beyond remains strong. We have further work orders and customer indications suggesting aerospace and defense revenue for the second half of 2025 will continue to grow when compared to PCP. Design and building work is commencing, with race teams to gain advantages within amended design regulations applying to the 2026 F1 racing program, and we believe this will have a positive NPAT on revenue on the second half of 2025 and also into FY 2026.
The investments in aerospace and defense capability, factory space, equipment, and systems are necessary to prepare to deliver in our medium and long-term growth objective, especially growth in aerospace and defense, and is consistent with our approach to invest now and collect later. Question two, what is driving the lower NPAT revenue when the revenue is only down 3.6%? Increase in average headcount by 33, largely focused on skills in aerospace and defense, cybersecurity systems capability, and quality assurance and certification compared to PCP and wage increases year on year. Increase in commissioned equipment leading to an increased depreciation compared to the PCP. Increased manufacturing costs for raw material, electricity, water, nitrogen, and gas. Next question, what is the movement in headcount half on the half? Average global forecast headcount for the first half of FY25, excuse me, is 575 compared to average headcount of the PCP of 541.
At this stage, the headcount on the second half is expected to be relatively flat and will be managed in line with program-specific revenue. Question four, do we anticipate making up lost OEM revenue in the second half? Not for OE, but we do anticipate a stronger second half for motorsports and aerospace and defense revenue. Question five, what makes you so confident in the revenue for A&D and motorsport for the second half? Our pipeline and the products we have under development for release in the second half. Question six, what cost management activities are you focusing on? Labor and overtime management is our key focus. We believe we are right sized for the forecasted revenue, and headcount for the second half is expected to be relatively flat and will be managed in line with program-specific revenue.
Question seven, what do you anticipate the impact on the full year to be for Stapleton headquarters? As mentioned at the full year, the ASX announcement that was launched on the 15th of August 2024, it will be a transition year for PWR, which is crucial to successfully position us for future growth as we move to our new headquarters in Stapleton. For the full year, the impact of the Stapleton headquarters, in accordance with what we have mentioned in the full-year results presentation, that is AUD 4.3 million before tax. In the first half of 2025, the forecast impact of the new factory at Stapleton is less than AUD 300,000. This is included with statutory impact forecast referred to in today's ASX announcement. Question eight, when will we next provide an update? We will continue to keep the market informed in line with our continuous disclosure obligations.
Question nine, what is your view on the EV market? Pushback on the EV market has been noticed in the last three to six months globally. What's driving forecast growth in A&D revenue? Continuing growth in the electric cold plates and also the eVTOL. We are continuing to supply a number of eVTOL developers who are supporting through the certification process, which they need prior to entering into production. I'll now forward to the calls if anybody has any further questions.
Thank you. If you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. If you wish to cancel your request, please press star two. If you're on a speakerphone, please pick up the handset to ask your question. Your first question comes from Jack Dunn with Citi. Please go ahead.
Hi, Kees. Hi, Martin. Thanks for taking some questions here. First one, just on these OEM programs, how much revenue were you expecting from those three niche programs? And do you expect revenue in OEMs to sort of in the second half to step down from that first half of AUD 8 million that you got into as a result of not having these programs?
Yeah, there were three programs, two that were canceled and one that was paused. And the two that were canceled is around about AUD 5.6 million for the full year. And the one that was paused is around about a million dollars for the full year of 2025. So do we expect anything else to fall out of the blue with that? No. They're basically the only three new EV programs that we have been working on the last few years. And we did say at the full-year presentation that this year was a fairly big decrease in OE, and this has come a little bit further than that, but not too much. It's not too much further. It's all falling in the first half.
Okay. Perfect. Thanks for that one. And just to clarify, did you say that these were the only three EV programs that you had in your pipeline?
Correct.
Okay. Perfect. And then just moving to aftermarket, you mentioned globally, but was there more weakness seen in Australia versus the U.S., or can you just touch on how you're seeing aftermarket in those two geographies?
Yeah. Yeah. We feel still very strong with the aftermarket. I don't think the aftermarket is as bad as it looks. I know the revenue is down a little bit, but we decided to, in June this year, take away some of our used accounts we were giving aftermarket, particularly in Australia. And yes, our revenue is down a little bit, but our impact for that section is certainly up quite a bit from last year. I know the revenue is down. It looks a little bit bad that way, but the underlying impact for that is up from previous year.
Perfect. Last one then. I'll just jump back in the queue, and in motorsports, you're expecting growth in the second half. Are you still expecting your flat growth for the full year, that 10% that you talked to?
My flat 10%?
Yes.
Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Look, I think we're very well positioned in that to do very well in motorsport for the second half. I know it's a fairly big skew, but I think everybody knows that's been dealing with us. It's always been a skew for the second half, and it's always come home with that. So we're very confident that we'll hit that number.
Perfect. Thanks. I'll jump back in now. Did you? Cheers.
Thanks.
Your next question comes from Alex Lu with Morgans Financial. Please go ahead.
Hi, Kees. Hope you're well. Just the one follow-up on those three EV OEM contracts, please. So you kind of gave us an indication of the revenue impact from those contracts in FY25, but just wondering, were they multi-year contracts? So just wondering, does that flow through to FY26 and '27 as well? So just trying to get an indication on that, please.
No, they're only fairly short contracts. What have you. So certainly, they weren't going beyond 2026.
Okay. So you will have some impact in FY26, but not in FY27?
Yeah. Very slightly in 2026, Alex. We only got a quarter. Why don't you bring the first half of 2026?
Okay. All right. Thanks, Kees.
Your next question comes from Tim Piper with UBS. Please go ahead.
Hi, Kees and Martin. Sorry to keep harping on the OEM contracts. Just to confirm, so these have dropped out post what you talked to in August? Because you sort of gave some indications around where you thought FY25 rev would be for OEM. So then you've effectively got, what was that, AUD 5.6 million, another AUD 1 million bucks sort of drop out of that FY25 number since August?
Correct.
Okay. Got it. Second question is around balance sheet and cash flow. Second half of 2024, there was a pretty decent step up in receivables. What kind of operating cash flow, cash conversion are you expecting in the first half of 2025? And then what does the trajectory of borrowings now look like over 2025, do you think? Do you end at a net debt position at the end of 2025 now?
Yeah. No problem. Tim, it's Martin here. We're expecting cash conversion to be certainly 90% plus in the first half because we had really good collections after a really large quarter of FY24. With regards to the debt profile, the timing of our drawdowns for the new facility are falling in line with where cash flow is expecting to be stronger in the second half of FY25. So that will mute and soften the amount that we need to draw from those facilities that we've got in place. We will be, by the end of the year, I would expect to be slightly in a net debt position.
Got it. Sorry. That's over around 90% operating cash conversion, did you say, in the first half?
Yes.
Okay. Got it. Thanks. And then maybe just one final one at a higher level. You'd already described 2025 as sort of being a transitional year. With what's sort of panning out in OEM and motorsports, overall, does this sort of change your thought process around the trajectory of NPAT margin recovery back up to the targeted 20% level over the medium term? Has that been pushed out to the right at all?
Excuse me. I don't think we're going back to 20% straight away, Tim, but it's maybe softened up a little bit at the front end of that. But we anticipate by 2027 to be around about that 80% older thought. 2027, 2028 is sort of that medium term. We're still expecting margins to get the benefit of efficiencies from the new factory and continued growth in the sectors.
Got it. Sorry. Just one last one. Just around the aerospace and defense revenue profile and seasonality, my understanding was there's not a huge amount of seasonality impact around timing of projects and revenues, but given the growth rate, it obviously skews to the second half. Just understanding why the first half of 2025 is going to land at a lower level than the second half of 2024?
I don't think so. Yeah. If you look at the first half of 2024, aerospace and defense, then AUD 7.7. And we had a full year, the second half, well, of aerospace and defense of AUD 21 million. And the first half of this year for aerospace and defense had done nearly AUD 13. And so we, as you know, there's little seasonality in aerospace and defense. And as time goes by, we're just increasing every six months a fair amount of revenue.
All right. I was more referring to versus the second half, so half on half. I mean, second half of 2024, you did AUD 13.3 million of revenue in A&D, and it'll be a little bit under 13 in this first half. So it's sort of gone backwards a little bit, half on half.
Yeah. I think it's mainly program pacific, really, which we are entering. Obviously, I don't want to use what everybody else is using, but I will say it. The election over there obviously stalled a little bit of some of the decision-making, and I get that at that level, but what we have seen, particularly some movement after the election last few weeks, is very promising, so we don't see that being as a big problem.
Thanks. I'll leave it there.
Thank you.
Your next question comes from Sarah Mann with MA Moelis Australia. Please go ahead.
Hi, guys. Just a question on motorsport, so obviously, I totally get the traditional second-half skew, but this year, you've got an extra team joining Formula 1. You've got all the work coming in for the new car, and traditionally, as you said, you've kind of grown it a flat, I don't know, 5%-10% somewhere in that realm. Plus, there was clearly the benefit of some of the price increases coming through. Can you kind of explain to us why the first half was kind of a little bit weaker than expected? Is it purely timing, or is there something big going on here around, I don't know, reallocation of budgets or changing technology and just how kind of some of the teams are spending?
That's a big question, Sarah. Which part do you want me to answer? I'll answer as I heard it.
Thanks.
No, I think part of the reason is that there's no change in, or very little change in design and what have you of the cooling system this year because a lot of people are using, particularly the back half of the grid, a lot of people are using the same program numbers and systems that they have on that have been running. So obviously, looking after their budget and spending it on their '26 car. You said earlier in your question there was another team starting. That hasn't been finalized yet with the other team starting it up, but there is a big anticipation that Andretti will have a '26 car on the grid. We're already working with them and GM out of America, who is their biggest backer. We're already working with them with product and testing and what have you for their proposed '26 entry.
And the word around town is that it looks like they're going to get that. And as you know, there's 10 teams in there now and another team that's just an automatic 10% increase by just having that one extra team. So we see motorsport going through the next couple of years for sure, if not longer, of very positive and a fairly big increase, particularly in the 2026 year. And a lot of that, or some of that, will be in our second half this year of a lot of the work that we're doing for that 2026 car. So we're very positive about that.
That makes sense. So it's really just the weakness in the first half is really just around timing, and there's going to be a bigger skew than normal because of, I guess, saving the budgets for the second half of the year. So just to clarify then, though, I mean, historically, you've kind of talked to a flattish growth of somewhere between 5%-10%, right? Like, sure, the first half was a little bit weaker, but it sounds like, given everything you've just described, you should be on track to do that or better.
Correct. Absolutely.
Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. And then the other question I just wanted to ask was on the aerospace and defense pipeline. You sounded pretty positive about what you were seeing there as well. Can you give us any specific color around, I suppose, what some of your eVTOL partners are kind of saying around timing as they move up into production and how they're going, progressing towards certification?
Yeah. I think everybody would know as much as we do because it's very well spoken about in the open forums, and particularly on their websites and such. Everything seems to be on track, particularly with the four or five now people that we're dealing with. And so the certification situation is obviously one that's going to hold people back, as I've said before. But when you look at Joby and Supernal, particularly those two are very well advanced with that, and it's going according to plan for our situation. So I would think, production-wise, that we'll be seeing some significant increase in production, particularly 2026 and beyond.
Got it. Thank you. And then just on the headcount component that you talked about before and some of the realignment of costs, so at the full year result, you called out adding 31 new heads in A&D kind of ahead of the curve. How many of the new stuff that you added in the first half were for A&D versus for the, I guess, just the base business?
It's quite a few. I don't think it's quite 21, but it is quite a few because, as I called out in the announcement, our full year announcement, that we're certainly ramping up for aerospace and defense. And a lot of those positions are higher paid, and particularly with cold and cybersecurity and the rest of that red tape stuff that's behind the scenes. And certification-wise, we have put on quite a few heads. And for moving forward, it'll be program specific, as we said, called out in the full year that we're ramping up for that, and we will continue to do that. We'll probably be a little bit more cautious, I suppose. But particularly now that the orders are getting very, very close and we're expecting orders imminently, we just don't want to be caught, say, with our pants down that we can't deliver.
So it's the chicken and the egg, but we still back ourselves for that, for future growth that we've predicted.
Thank you. So just to clarify, that sounds like you've put in some headcount now. There'll be a pause, I suppose, in the second half. But as things ramp up in 2026, you'll probably catch up on, I guess, some of the people that you're not hiring this year as you realign the cost base. Is that kind of a fair characterization?
Absolutely correct. Yes.
Excellent. All right. Thanks very much, guys. Appreciate the time.
Thank you.
Your next question comes from Andrew Walton with Shaw and Partners. Please go ahead.
Hi, Kees. What R&D product and business development initiatives are you undertaking to diversify income potential through new revenue sectors, for example, quantum computing, data centers, and the like?
We always continue, Andrew, to develop new products. We've been developing a new product, particularly for F1, the last four years, the last five years, actually. One of the teams has been using that for the last three years. We have progressed that development quite a bit, particularly in the last 12 months. Now we're dealing with five teams to use that in the 2026 car. We're very confident that's a game changer. It is a game changer, which has been proven over the last two years with a particular team using those products. We always continue to push R&D across the board. That's not only in motorsport. I know motorsport's a technical driver, and we use that a lot, particularly in F1, without dropping a name in F1. That has a trickle-down effect into other categories.
We're being fortunate enough now that some of the products that we've developed in high-end motorsport are now getting into eVTOL and aerospace. It's always that continuing improvement that we do. We have four full-time people here in Australia that are just doing nothing else but R&D development every day. It's not only the work that they're doing, but the cost of what they do, of their development, is substantial. Yes, we do get a kickback from the government, as you know, with their R&D grant to cover some of that. That's certainly not all.
Just adding to that, we have more than 40 individual R&D projects on the go throughout the course of a typical year, and that's continuing, and the spend is in the order of about AUD 10 million, is the overall sort of cost that we're investing into R&D projects just to keep the technology at the forefront.
Certainly, one of the major trends in sponsorship in Formula 1 over the last few years has been the growth of technology and technology partners. Especially at the front of the grid, the teams are penciling up their activities with their partners and trying to drive partner value. With the advent of some of the big American players looking at both sponsorship in Formula 1, but also looking at their broader business, there certainly looks like opportunities to transfer technology across into, particularly with the drive of AI in data centers and things like that. Hopefully, all that comes together, and the team's year-long relationship with the teams helps build up that commercial element as well.
The other point I was going to make was what alignment or correlation is there between Formula 1 OEMs and their road car applications with the advent of the new hybrid engine specs for 2026? And what sort of timeframe do you see there being in terms of taking some of those OEM technologies and moving them over to strengthen the OEM business?
Yeah, that's a good point. That's always been the case with F1 technology filtering down into the OE car market. And a lot of the development that we've done in F1 since they became hybrid, and particularly with the battery storage part of the business, a lot of that has been trickled down into the OE market and the OE brands that support them. And that will continue. Obviously, the 2026 car has got actually twice as much hybrid battery power than the current car. And the battery protection, I guess, of the recharge and the charging and the recharge of that has to be carefully designed and what have you so they're not overheating batteries, etc., etc., and the lasting of those batteries. So we've been able to put a fair bit of technology together to increase that.
That part of the '26 car, we are working with every car that's on the grid in that capacity. So that will only trickle down into the cars that go on the road at a later date. And as far as technology partners, we've had a very long technology partner since 2012 with one of the current leading teams, and that still exists today. It's a technical partnership that has been very strong. It started with a handshake in 2012, and it's still a very, very, very strong association with that team.
Great. Thank you.
Your next question comes from Chris Savage with Bell Potter. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Hey, Kees. Hey, Martin.
Hey.
Follow-on probably from Sarah's question around the headcount. So you were 578 at the 30 June. Overall, has that number gone up or down at this point in time?
I think it's down a little bit. Martin's just having a quick look here.
As far as, I suppose, period on period, we finished at 535 in December 2023. We're forecast to be at 573 by the end of this half.
Is that down a little bit?
Just down a small amount, just as we.
Yeah. 30 June, yeah.
We put headcount into the areas that are going to support the growth in A&D. So we're just taking very careful, deliberate decisions in the labor management.
Yep. And your comment, Kees, that you feel like you're now right-sized to deliver on the H2 revenue. So that AUD 573 is going to be more or less flat into H2?
Correct. It'll be program. Sorry, Chris, talking out of it. It'll be program-specific, Chris, in the second half. If different programs pop up and come forward quicker than we anticipate, we'll obviously do that. It'll be program-specific.
Sure. I guess the point I'm getting to is that your first half guidance basically implies OPEX of about AUD 39 million in the first half. If your employee numbers are roughly flat or thereabouts in the second half, it seems to me your OPEX in the second half is going to be pretty flat around that AUD 39 million mark. Is that a fair comment?
There will be material costs and some manufacturing costs and further depreciation as equipment gets brought online. But labor costs, that should be.
Yeah, but just OPEX though, I guess I'm talking, Martin. Do you know if you would that be a fair comment that you can keep it sort of relatively flat in the second half?
It'd be relatively subject to any program-specific requirements.
Got it. All right. Thank you.
Your next question comes from Chris Scarpotto with Alvia Asset Partners. Please go ahead.
Hi, Kees. Martin, can you hear me?
Yeah, yeah, mate. We're good.
Great. Next one. Just on the, obviously, just circling back to the two EV contracts mostly canceled and the one that's been delayed. I mean, just so I can sort of get my head around visibility around order books, so these are orders that were placed and have since been removed. Is there any stage that these contracts or these orders become binding and a financial penalty or some implications for companies pulling this work, considering you have to spend considerable money having staffing and resources available to deliver these contracts?
Yeah. Sometimes the contracts aren't worth anything if the place goes into receivership. So when they cancel the contract, usually that you're talking to the receivers with that. Obviously, one of the EV programs that was paused. We have one that's paused out of Germany, which is one of the biggest car producers over there. It's paused mainly because they think that they're not going to sell the amount of cars that they need to for the technology they're pouring into it. So they're a little bit ahead of the curve because they've been there for a long, long time. The two that have canceled are out of America, and there are two startups over the last two years. So we've done a lot of work upfront for them, which we're paid for, by the way. So it is disappointing that they've been canceled, but that's life.
But we'd rather than, in a different sense, I suppose, we'd rather than be canceled than us chasing a bad debt, us making, doing all the stuff and then chasing a bad debt. So that's something that we're grateful for. Not that we're happy with it, but we're grateful that we'd rather be canceled rather than chasing a bad debt.
That makes sense. I guess just one final one on the margin guidance. I guess for me to try and get my head around, with the new factory down in Stapleton and obviously right-sizing the workforce, I guess just trying to get my head around that sort of 18%-20% NPAT margin, obviously there's cost levers to pull, but is there any sort of pricing levers you could pull considering the nature of these different contracts and the way you work with your client base? Is it just a cost-side thing, or is there also a pricing lever that can be pulled to get those margins back towards that mark?
I think the big thing here is that efficiency gain. One of the major reasons why we decided to move into a factory of that size and at one level to gain efficiencies. For the numbers that we've done, we'll have a huge efficiency gain, particularly in 2026 when we've been there, and have everything bedded down during the calendar year of 2025. The whole thing will be certainly recognised on the efficiency side for the 2026 year. We're very happy with that. People would know, people that have been here and know, we've started off in one building here and then bought the second building and then bought the second building, the other building, etc., etc. It's like a rabbit warren, which was always the case. Over the last four years, we've doubled what we've done here at our current site.
We are certainly scrambling, and it's certainly inefficient. That's why we've made that decision to move to the new factory. The new factory is for the next 20- and 30-year program. It's not just for a three-year lease. We're spending a lot of money there and investing a lot of money, but also it's not so much money as the technology and the automation that we're putting into that new factory that will certainly give us efficiency gains, and those gains will drop straight into the bottom line.
Excellent. Thanks, Kees. Appreciate that.
Thank you.
Your next question comes from Sam Clark with Select Equities. Please go ahead.
Hey, Kees. Hey, Martin. Thanks for taking my question. I just wanted to know, obviously, you previously flagged FY25 as largely being flat and a bit of a year of consolidation with UK factory expansion, etc., but then a material step up in FY26. Is that still expected to be, I suppose, the case around timing with the update today? I guess I just want to clarify, especially maybe in comparison to, say, FY24, if you can, given what you mentioned earlier, I think in Sarah's question around recovery of back to that 18%-20% level in 2027, 2028.
Yeah. We've certainly got no pullback on what we've got in our internal budgeting for 2026. We've certainly got no pullback on that. I did call this out on our full year last in August when we presented our full year that the OEM was going to be down, and that's a driver. And also, the other driver is we were probably a little bit ahead, I guess, on recruitment of senior staff and what have you for aerospace and defense and allied. At the end of the day, we have an obligation to report if we're going to be a loaded PCP, which we found out yesterday. And that's what we have a board meeting tomorrow, and that's why we're doing it today. But we're still very upbeat for the 2026 year and beyond.
And we see this as no different from what we said at the when we done our full year last year of that it was going to be flat for this year. So we still maintain that. We're still very, very positive about the 2026 year and beyond.
That's great. Thank you.
Your next question comes from Jack Dunn with Citi. Please go ahead. Jack Dunn, your line is now live, so you may proceed with your question. Apologies. Your next question comes from Sarah Mann with MA Moelis Australia. Please go ahead.
Hi, guys. Just one quick follow-up question. So the headcount number you said reduced in this half. Can I just clarify, were there any kind of redundancy costs associated with that or anything we should be thinking about going into the second half?
There's nothing of note in the second half.
Were there redundancy costs in the first half that we should be thinking about that are kind of one-off in nature?
There are, but they're relatively small.
Gotcha. Okay. So a routing error. Cool. And then just one other question from me was just on, I guess, back on aerospace and defense. We've talked about the eVTOL pipeline, but just on kind of the pure defense pipeline. At the full year, you guys seemed pretty confident that that was progressing quite nicely. And there might be some more meaningful contracts starting to come to fruition before the end of this calendar year. Can you comment on, I suppose, how that pipeline's progressing at all?
Yes, we can. Yeah, we're still very positive about that, Sarah, particularly for the cold plate electronic cooling program we have going on with several customers in America. And we'd like to be able to say that we can announce something fairly soon. But as soon as that comes through, it will be sizable to announce. So I guess timing's a little bit against us today, but we'll see what comes out in the next few weeks.
Excellent. That's good color. Thanks very much.
Thank you.
Once again, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone. Your next question is from Jack Dunn with Citi. Please go ahead.
Sorry, can you guys hear me?
Yes, we've got you now, mate.
Yeah. Perfect. Sorry about that before. Just lastly, on some aerospace and defense, I know the August result, you mentioned there were some programs moving to production in 2026, and you called out the specific program in America. Certainly, if that was still on track, are there any updates there? Or is that what you're referring to about the defense program?
Yeah, I think that's what we referred to with our defense programs, mate.
All right. Perfect. And then just on the breakdown of revenue and A&D in that first half between eVTOL, cold plates, and sort of the other buckets, would it be similar to what you guys had in FY24?
I think we don't quote, maybe you can answer that question, Martin.
Broadly speaking, we haven't provided that split specifically at this stage.
Okay. Perfect. And then last one, quickly, just on the new move to the new facility. We're dealing with less than AUD 300,000 of costs for this first half. Curious if there's been any delays in plans to move, or is everything still on track to be out of your current facility by the end of August next year?
No delays.
No delays, mate. No. No, we'll certainly be right on time. There won't be a problem.
The majority of the expenses that we called out in the full year presentation were relocation expenses, which are Q4.
Perfect. Thanks, Dave. My questions.
Thank you.
There are no further questions at this time. I'll now hand back to Mr. Weel for any closing remarks.
Okay. Well, thank you very much for everyone joining the update that we've given and talking to the ASX announcements. So if anyone has any further questions or what have you, everybody knows Martin and myself's email. Please email any further questions you may have, and look forward to speaking to everybody personally at the Half-Year Presentation. Thank you.
That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.