Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. I am Gail, your Chorus Call operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Mytilineos conference call to present and discuss the Mytilineos SA full-year 2023 financial results. All participants will be in listen-only mode, and the conference is being recorded. Should anyone need assistance during the conference call, you may signal an operator by pressing star and zero on your telephone. Please note that following the presentation, there will be a Q&A session. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Evangelos Mytilineos, Chairman of the Board of Directors and Chief Executive Officer, and other senior executives. Mr. Mytilineos, you may now proceed.
Thank you. Welcome to everyone from Greece and a lot of foreign countries. Good morning in the United States, good evening to our European friends. Thank you once again for being here for our conference call for our 2023 results. A lot of questions, a lot of things to say as a result of so much going on in this group these days. So I'm sure you have all seen the results that we have announced this morning. The results on the bottom line indicate a net profitability of EUR 623 million. The EBITDA has surpassed the EUR 1 billion benchmark for the first time ever. Our cash available and total liquidity is EUR 920 million and EUR 2.25 billion, respectively.
Our net debt to EBITDA stays at 1.5, and the proposed... Sorry, the earnings per share is 4.45 EUR, and the proposed dividend is 1.5 EUR, with adjustment for own shares on the ex-dividend date. As we speak, this would amount to 0.08 EUR per share, which brings the proposed dividend to 1.58 EUR. As I said in my statement, we are all proud of these results, which are a result of a lot of work during the year. It has not been easy, a good year to everyone. We now look to 2024, and I'm sure most of your comments and questions they refer to 2024. Going forward, this is what matters.
So, I have a complete set of questions in front of me, which, as I always do, I will go through these questions, and afterwards, anyone that would like to, to ask, to add something, to make a comment on something, or have another question, we are all, all here to, to answer. A couple of our colleagues, notably Mr. Gavalas, who is a member of the board, and a Chief Treasurer and Chief IR Officer, as well as, Dimitris Katralis, who's our Head of our IR desk. They are both in New York, so they will follow up from there, and then they will intervene if appropriate. So let's start. Fani Tzioukalia from Euroxx Securities. Congratulations on the strong set of results. Number one, you have tripled your EBITDA profitability over the past two or three years.
Are there further opportunities for growth? This company has always been looking for growth, and obviously that is not going to stop now. It is important to underline that the new structure that we announced in 2022 has been tested over the last couple of years and has been proven quite successful, although it has not reached the 100% synergistic structure that we are looking for. Growth potential going forward is, of course, always a priority. From side, where do we expect growth to come from? On a segments point of view, let's say a few words.
1: Our retail business is constantly improving its position, with a potential to more than double its market share from about 15% at the moment to the 30% mark, via the combination of organic growth, acquisition, further consolidation of the market, and representation of the Aluminium of Greece subsidiary. So as we speak, we have reached the 20% with aluminum, and I think we will add another 10% by acquisitions and organic growth in the next couple of years, which brings us to the 30% mark. 2: Generation is currently building momentum following the commercial operation of the new big CCGT of 826 MW. It's important to note that this big new plant did not work full time as it was in cold and then in hot commissioning during 2023.
We hope that this year will be in full operation, and then it will enhance the profitability of this particular generation segment. Actually, generation, it's not only generation, as you know, it's generation and energy management. Energy management is becoming more and more important by the day. And it vindicates our decision to split the company in two business units, energy and metals. This is a mode of operation that is now being copied around Europe by many other big companies. Number three, natural gas supply has locked higher volumes and has brought very high results, which of course, we have to look at this year in view of the collapse of natural gas prices gradually during last year. Power projects, which is mostly power plants and grid projects.
I want to underline very much as we said in our press release, that, for us, grid projects is going to be the next renewables. The grid business is going to be universally European wide and in Greece the biggest company, the biggest item, the biggest business of the green transition. We are already in this business. For example, if you look at the subsea Scotland England cable that we undertook together with GE, we are in this business. We have the know-how. We have the financial resources to support the expansion of this particular sector, and I would ask you to pay particular attention to our grid expansion.
Number five, metals continue to deliver solid results due to proactive actions and good cost control and an operation which is vertically integrated, and it's working in an extremely efficient way. All subsegments have strong potential and as they grow, the synergies among them will become more effective. As I said, we are probably now managed to get 60% or 70% synergies out of the new form, the new structure of the company, so we have 20% or 30% more to get to where we want. Regarding the M Renewables, you are all looking at the performance of this particular segment. All I can say at this stage is that we continue, we expect this progress to continue and even accelerate, starting 2024. Second question by Mrs.
Gioukkas: How do you expect the production cost of aluminum to evolve in 2024, given that Mytilineos are now undertaking smelters electricity supply? For those of you who have followed this company for a number of years, I would be very interested to hear, after I'm, I'm done with the, with the written questions, who 2 or 3 years ago, or 3 years ago, when we had the last contact with PPC, and that worried almost all analysts about the future of aluminum, and what would be the impact on the Metals Group in general? I would like to hear someone to tell me what you believe is going to be the electricity cost for aluminum in the last year of the PPC supply, which was 2023, and the first year of the Protergia supply. Which one is more favorable to the aluminum?
So I turn the question to another. I reply with another question. So anybody that would like to make a comment on this, I, I would appreciate. But I have to remind you, that most of you who have been following this company for a number of years, you have a lot of doubts of how aluminum would cope. So let's see. Number three: despite the sharp drop in natural gas prices year-on-year, your NG supply profitability came in stronger this year. Could you please give some more color on this performance, as well as your 2024-2025 expectations, given that natural gas prices maintain a downward, downward trends? That's very true. In 2023, we had an average price on the TTF at EUR 47 per megawatt hour, and now, as you all know, the price is below 30 EUR.
That makes a price which is like 40% plus lower. There, no doubt there will be pressure on the margins of the business, which is a negative thing. On the other hand, it will help the generation segment of the business, because the electricity, which is being produced by our plants, our generation plants, as you know, are either renewables, which has nothing to do with it, or gas fired. Therefore, the electricity which is going to be produced by our plants is going to be cheaper, much cheaper, and, of course, much cheaper than the lignite or coal plants, which increase with these kind of prices, almost, except one out of operation. Therefore, which is a good thing for us.
So the lower prices, and here come the synergies of course, as you can realize. So, I would be more specific on the effect of the lower prices on the various segments of our business, because it touches the lower prices or the higher prices or whatever, they touch many segments of our business, and not only the gas trading. On another note, a way to offset the lower prices on your results is to expand the basket of energy products that you offer to your customers, and widen your geographical reach, which is exactly what we are doing this year.
We are expanding, we are making a much fuller basket of energy products, and we are expanding our geographical footprint, as you will notice in the next few weeks, when we announce the opening of a new office in Western Europe to cope with our demand for our energy products in this part of the continent. Mr. Vangelis Karanikas from NBG Securities. Mr. Vangelis Karanikas has 4 questions. Number 1: How does the de-escalation of energy prices affect Mytilineos? Do you believe that we have overcome the energy crisis? No, we have not overcome the energy crisis. Not yet, anyway.... The energy crisis, on the surface is, is done. We are done with it.
But if you look at it a little deeper, you will see that the global supply-demand situation is tight, and that as we have noticed in the last few months, when there was a strike in Australia that it never occurred in the end, prices went up by 50%. What does that mean? It means, as far as Europe is concerned, that the European dependence on Russian gas has been substituted by European dependence on the global LNG markets. And the global LNG markets comprise of a number of suppliers, but two, three, or four of them are very big suppliers. One of them is Qatar. And now, the problems that we see in the Red Sea, if they move to the Persian Gulf, we talk about a completely different situation.
Therefore, if you move your dependence from a supplier on the continents to a global supply, whatever happens anywhere in the world from a major source of gas, is going to affect you. So this is going to be a state of things from now on. We have to live with it, and we always to be careful about the security of supply. The de-escalation of energy prices is very good for aluminum. It's not good for power supply, but this is also debatable. We will have to wait and see. Moreover, for all these kind of questions, it would be we would be much more specific during our annual general assembly, as we always do, and we also cite specific goals and numbers. Number two: Are there any intentions of any new bond issuance this year?
As you all know, in the case of the bond market, you issue a bond when the window is open and not when you need the money. Because when you want to raise money through a new bond, or when you have to raise money through a new bond, the window may be closed. So this is an exercise that is quite sensitive, it's delicate. Therefore, I have no answer whether we are going to issue a new bond or not in 2024. As I said at the beginning of our discussion, we have ample liquidity for our obligations, for our extended CapEx, and so on.
So there's no need to issue new bonds, but it depends entirely on the market circumstances, and especially on the central banks and what they will finally decide to do with the pace of the de-escalation of the interest rate policy. Number three: How far do you think are you for in Investment Grade, given that in the past three years you had significant CapEx from renewables and other increased cash outflows? As you probably all know, we are one notch away from Investment Grade, both by Fitch and S&P. It's worth noting that here, that the BB+ rating could also be considered as a crossover rating, acting as a quasi-IG level. That is why our bonds are trading in the market at levels that are offered by IG Investment Grade companies.
The dilemma is how strong you grow, as opposed to how much you control your debt. These things obviously do not go together. If you spend very much, and if you spend properly and prudently, you may accelerate your growth, but then the metrics of the liquidity and the funding possibilities, and the rates, and the ratios are becoming worse, and then IG is frozen for a period of time. So I consider as our duty here, to keep our growth on track, and at the same time preserve our extremely healthy liquidity position, in order to keep our possibilities open for an eventual investment grade upgrade.
Number 4: with regards to your M Power projects, grids have become the largest component of your signed backlog, while you have recently been awarded for a large project in the U.K., with a value of GBP 1 billion. What are your plans with regards to grids, to grids going forward? As some of you may know, the European Commission estimates that overall, EUR 584 billion in investments are necessary for electricity grids over the next 10 years. Industry estimates that around EUR 400 billion of this investment is necessary by 2030. Around 40% of Europe's distribution grids are over 40 years old and need to be modernized and accommodate the new renewable wave of projects.
U.K. alone, or where we have a big presence, needs $26 billion for investments to expand its grid capacity over the next four years. So as you can all realize, and as a good friend of mine, who is a CEO of a very big German energy company, once told me, in the last few months, actually. He told me that people think that the green transition will be affected by building more solar and more wind. I have to assure you that that is not the case. The CapEx and the spending that has to be made on the grid structure is much, much bigger than renewable plants. Mr. Krishan Agarwal from Citi. Great set of results this morning. I have a few questions from my side.
Number one: Can you talk about the capacity growth strategy in renewable for 2024, as to how much of gigawatts of solar projects you expect to bring online? And what is the target for project disposal? At the moment, as we speak now, we have in operation 845 MW, own projects operating. We have in construction, as we speak, 1,538 MW, which are due for completion and operation by the 31st of December of 2024. This brings us to 2,383 MW by the end of the year. Whether some or a lot of these megawatts are going to be disposed or not, depends entirely on the market conditions and interest rates, valuations, and so on. At the right market conditions, as you know, we never hesitate to make a deal.
So this question will have to be answered in due course by the real facts of life. But keep this number in mind, we will have, by the end of the year, in our own portfolio, 2,383 MW. Question number 2: How should we think about the profitability potential in electricity supply, gas trading, and EPC projects in 2024, in the context of supernova profits seen in the last two years? About the EPC project business, you obviously mean, you're talking about the power projects. And I come back to what I said before, the power plants all the book is very healthy. The grid power the grid order book is becoming thicker and thicker, this book, and we are very happy about it.
I repeat what I said before, this is probably going to be the next success after the, renewables stellar performance over the last few years. As far as electricity supply and gas trading is concerned, I made a few comments just a few minutes ago, both about gas trading, and how we face the downturn in prices, as well as, as the electricity supply, which is going to be aided by the lower prices of gas. The third question: Do you see the underlying business model of gas generation from metal and thermal business being deployed in renewable being sustained for next 3 or 5 years? Are there any new markets that you are targeting for solar expansion? I think it's clear to everybody that the demand for solar projects globally is an unlimited demand.
You can supply as much as you can make. Whether you make money or not, it's up to you on how well organized you are, what your cost structure is, and what your know-how is. I think we have a proven track record of all this, and therefore, I can confirm to you that this business is continuing. It may surprise you in the results that it's going to bring in 2024 and the years going forward. New markets. We're looking for new markets all the time, but we have to be careful. We have to choose carefully the country, the rating of the country. For example, look at the Canadian example. A super country, AAA country, a country which is relatively new in the renewable business, and we made a great start.
I will be in Alberta in March, in the commencement of the construction of the new project. So yes, heads up for this business going forward, 3-5 years, at least. Mr. Nikos Athanasiou from Eurobank Equities. Questions, number one: As Mytilineos expand in renewables, what are your expectations for the next few years? Okay. Our expectations are, are very high. Our five-year business plan points to that growth in a big way going forward. Don't forget that we are also very active in the battery storage business, which is also an extremely growing business. And for example, for those of you that, do not know this or you are not from Greece, the government from now on, intends to give a license for a solar or a wind park only if there is a battery to go with it.
Why is it doing this? Because it wants to expand what we call the electricity capacity of the grid. So there's a long way to go in the renewable business. We are there with the solar, we are there with the wind, we are there with the batteries, and, now we are going to be big time on the grids as well. Question number 2: Is Mytilineos still considering a dual listing or listing at the LSE? If so, what progress has been made? Should we expect any developments on that front in 2024? The first time I was asked this question, may I remind you, was in December 2022, when we presented to shareholders, stakeholders and analysts, the transformation of the group. So I received this question: Do you consider moving to a major stock exchange?
Especially the question, if I remember well, was about the LSE. The reply I gave was the following: My colleagues, they, last week, they brought me to see a few numbers. These numbers were first nine months of 2022, top line, bottom line, and EBITDA, and bottom line. These numbers put us at the FTSE 100, at the position between 48 and 52. At the same time, our market capitalization then put us at a place 152. That was the answer I gave, and I asked the person who placed this question to me to answer herself to make a guess, what the answer would be. She didn't say anything. Now, I have to tell you that the things have changed.
Our numbers are now still in the middle of the FTSE 100, even a little bit higher. But our place on the capitalization list is not 152, it's number 80. So there's a lot of work to make a delisting or do a listing in such a major stock exchange in the world. All I can say at this stage is that the numbers are already there. It's a matter of a final decision. Mr. Manos Hatzidakis from Beta Securities. Question number one. Public Power Corporation said that it targets 45% market share in 2026. On the other hand, Mytilineos also targets to strengthen its presence in retail, targeting initially to exceed 20% in the short term and then go for 30%. Does that mean that we are entering an era of fierce competition in the electricity supply?
What does that mean for the power market? Also, how do you see the new regulatory framework in the electricity market? What is the outlook for the Greek energy market going forward? Okay. At the moment, PPC, which, by the way, made an impressive presentation in the Investor Day, a couple of two or three days ago, announced that it's going to aim for a market share of 45%, because I think according to the EU regulation, sooner rather than later, it has to bring its share of the market from 55, which is now down to below 50. So I think 45% is the market they chose, the percentage they chose to announce as their target. At the same time, as I said a few minutes ago, our target is 30%.
Does that mean that there is going to be a head-on collision? My answer is this: I don't think so. Even if these numbers materialize, the two of us will have 75%, and there will be another 25%, which is going to belong to other companies. So it's not a duopoly, it's an open market. Number two, twists of life are interesting sometimes. Aluminium of Greece, and to a large extent, Mytilineos, used to depend on PPC for decades. And now we are reaching a position where we're going to fight with PPC for the Greek markets. Let's hope it will be a friendly coexistence. How do you see the new regulatory framework in the electricity market? Well, a lot of fuss has been made with the colored invoices and so on.
I said a couple of months ago, in a speech, colors were invented only to facilitate normal citizens to make a choice. Otherwise, in my opinion, there is not much change. It's just to facilitate the companies to the consumers and make it a little bit easier for the companies as well. My prediction is that in the next very few years, maybe a couple of years, there will be only vertical operators left in the market. It will be impossible for independent operators, which rely on their supplies from the wholesale market alone, to face another energy crisis, if there is any. So we know who the vertically operated companies are, so you may have an idea of where we're heading to. I have a last question from Mr.
Nestoras Katsios from Optima Bank. Congratulations on your results. I was wondering, what do you expect in terms of profitability for thermal generation this year? I expect good news. So guys, these were all the questions that we have had so far. We are all at your disposal to answer any questions you may have, please.
Ladies and gentlemen, we will proceed with questions from our audio participants. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star, followed by one on their telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, then you may press star and two. Please use your headset when asking your question for better quality. Anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. One moment for the first question, please. First question is from the line of Masvoulas loannis, with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Thanks very much, Mr. Mytilineos. Thank you for the presentation, and congratulations on exceeding the EUR 1 billion EBITDA target. A few questions from my side. First, on CapEx, you have reached a record level in 2023, so as to support the higher generation of the group. Can you perhaps provide some color on your 2024 CapEx expectations? And how does your asset rotation program in renewables fit into this outlook? And second question is on the balance sheet gearing. You've reached 1.5x net debt to EBITDA, excluding non-recourse debt, in 2023, which remains at comfortable levels, and I would imagine it keeps you on track for an investment grade rating. What's the gearing outlook for 2024? Shall we expect a further step up, given your growth ambitions?
Or are we looking at, peak levels now and potential some moderation throughout this year? I'll stop here. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Mazpula. Very important questions, both of them. Our CapEx has been high for the last couple of years, at least, if not for the last 3 years. Mainly, as you know, probably 80% to expand our renewable business. The asset rotation plan. The cycle of the asset rotation plan is about 2, 2.5-3 years for a single project. That means the money we put in the business in 2022 is maturing now for collection at 2024. That means that if all goes well, in 2024, we will actually receive the first wave of big time payments for our power plants, solar power plants, that we started building in 2022.
That means, and it confirms what you have also said in your analysis, that this mode of operation is now starting to become self-financed. And increasing because the rotation is bringing in your capital plus your profit. So your available cash is more than the cash you put in when you started. So going forward, this is going to be indeed self-financed. However, we still have a CapEx of about EUR 500 million this year, which this time excluding about EUR 100 million, which is maintenance, annual maintenance for our extensive number of industrial installations, mines, generators and so on. The rest, 500, 500 are going as equity parts for our own solar pumps, solar plants, and batteries that we are going to build for our own portfolio.
Please also bear in mind, last agreement we have made with European Investment Bank, which is an extremely interesting funding agreement with low interest rate, and it's destined for renewable projects only within certain countries in the European Union, including Greece. But obviously, you, you don't even ask about the funding because you know that the funding is, is not the issue here. The issue is the asset, the asset rotation plan. And it's very interesting that in 2024, the first full cycle is being completed. The second question refers to 1.5x EBITDA, and whether this gearing is going to stay like this or is going to become a little higher or not.
Our expectations for this year is that we are going to see the gearing going up in the first months of the year and then going back down until the end of the year. So I think despite all these continuing investments, I think we are probably near the peak of the gearing in the group, and because for us, Investment Grade is a top priority, we will make absolutely sure that our liquidity remains humble and comfortable for our bondholders, the banks, and everyone, and all our stakeholders. Thank you very much.
Thanks very much. Very clear, on both topics. One follow-up, if I may, switching to aluminum. There have been conflicting reports this week on possible inclusion of Russian aluminum in the upcoming E.U. sanctions package. Given your role as a key player in the European aluminum market and also President of Eurometaux, I'm keen to hear your thoughts, and what could possibly happen here. Is there a real prospect of sanctions against Russian aluminum are being introduced, and what could that mean for the European market? Thank you.
As President of Eurometaux, I tell you, I am in a very odd position. Why is that? Half of our members in Eurometaux are active in downstream, and the other half is active in upstream. So those who are downstream, they want Russian metal, because it's cheap. And in order to be globally competitive, they need cheaper material. Upstream, like ourselves and others, they want Russian aluminum to be excluded for all sorts of reasons, you can imagine. So I'm in the middle. I belong to the upstream sector of the Eurometaux business, but I, as President of Eurometaux, I have to be neutral. So, Eurometaux is doing nothing about this. We stay completely out of politics. This is standard policy of Eurometaux.
Now, if you want me to share with you my own information from Brussels, at the next package of sanctions, which I think it's the twelfth package of the EU against Russia, aluminum is not going to be included in the list of sanctions. But this is my own information for whatever it's worth. Thank you.
Thanks again. Thanks very much.
As a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star and one on your telephone. Ladies and gentlemen, there are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the conference over to Mr. Mytilineos for any closing comments. Thank you.
So I thank you all for your questions. I thank you all for following up the company in this exciting journey, in this exciting journey that it is continuing apace, that makes us all very proud for what we're doing here.... We have come a long way to be able to speak very seriously about joining one of the biggest exchanges in the world. I can tell you it's been a fascinating journey, and I have personally, and all my colleagues have enjoyed it very much. 2024 has a lot of uncertainties, a lot of headwinds. It has a lot of. It's very thick on political, geopolitical, and economic events going forward. In my personal opinion, the most important issue of the year is the elections in the United States. That's number one.
Number 2 is the elections for the European Parliament, which may surprise us in Europe in a big way. We have 2 wars continuing with no end in sight. We have the problems of the economy in China, which in all intents and purposes do not seem to be easy to solve. We have the situation in Taiwan and the problems that come in with the situation between China, Taiwan, and the United States. We have an uncertain future of interest rates as far as the timing of the de-escalation is concerned. As you all see, there's a massive disagreements between the markets and the central bankers, who, for some reason that most of us do not understand, they remain extremely cautious when to start cutting. Commodities markets are very nervous. The oil market is very nervous.
All these things are pointing to a, an extremely challenging year. As far as we are concerned, we remain cautiously optimistic, as we always do at the beginning of, years with so many things to happen. However, I think we have built a very strong position, and I'm almost certain that, the EUR 1 billion mark in EBITDA, but more importantly, and you are going to hear from us more and more in the future, we are going to be talking about earnings per share, and net profitability. EBITDA is important. It's very important for the banks. It's extremely important for the bondholders, but for the shareholders, the most important is the bottom line, the earnings per share and the dividends per share. And I want to make a point here. Our shareholders and the people that work for this company, it's my own personal priority.
And it is... I want to, I want you to give special attention to the fact that being in the middle of such a multi-billion CapEx program in the last few years, we retain our dividend at the upper end of the scale. This is a respect to our shareholders who are so much devoted to our company. I can only tell you that our retail shareholders have hardly left our shareholding list on all the way and all this journey up to almost 40 years. Very few have left. Most of all, all of them, the thousands of them, are still with us, and that is only increasing our responsibility towards them. As we have always done in our way here, on our way here, that's what, what we're going to do now. Stay tuned in this nice journey, guys.
Thank you very much, and good evening, good day to the United States, and good evening to our European friends. Thank you very much.
Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now concluded, and you may disconnect your telephone. Thank you for calling, and have a pleasant evening.