ACEA S.p.A. (BIT:ACE)
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Earnings Call: H1 2021

Jul 28, 2021

Speaker 1

madam. Thank you and good afternoon and thank you for connecting to this conference call on the presentations of the results of the first half of twenty twenty one. The CFO, Mr. Golar and the CFO, Mr.

Paris will present the results. At the end, we shall have a Q and A session. And with us at that point, we shall have Mr. Sung Jin, who is Head of Investor Relations and Sustainability. Giuseppe, you have the floor.

Thank you very much. Welcome to the presentation of the quarterly results. The results are in line with our recent performance and they are positive. On Page 2 of the presentation, you can see the key financial highlights. We closed the quarter with EBITDA at EUR 619,000,000 plus 9% over the same period of 2020.

Net profit very, very good EUR 166,000,000 plus 15% versus the same period of 2020. CapEx EUR 482,000,000 plus 17%. Net debt €3,930,000,000 with a leverage of 3.2 times for the net debt to EBITDA ratio. Now we are now updating because of these results our guidance for 2021, especially the EBITDA guidance that we gave you when we presented the results of 2020. The EBITDA before was an increase by 6%, 8%, whereas now we are presenting a new guidance for 2021 plus 8% CapEx, the guidance here is confirmed €900,000,000 and net debt is confirmed between €3,850,000,000,000 and €3,95,000,000,000 So I have to say that the company is constantly trying to improve its financial and economic performance.

On the other hand, we're also working in our capacity, which is very important that is to provide our support to the economic recovery of the country, making investments in renewable sources and try to reduce the carbonization. We are acting at all level to try and use the funds of the PNRR supporting sustainable investments. And here we are constantly trying to develop renewable sources, especially photovoltaic energy. And then moving towards greater decarbonization and improving e mobility services. As to the COVID-nineteen related health emergency, Well, here we are again continuing to take actions to guarantee the safety of our employees.

And let me also tell you that although this is not our core business, we opened a vaccination hub in Rome, which we made available to the Lazio region and to the local health unit. So by contributing to the vaccination process of our citizens, at the moment we are delivering approximately 1700, 1800 doses a day. And ever since the opening of this hub, we have vaccinated 41,000 people. Now Page 3, we are summarizing the main events of these first half of twenty twenty one. I think that one important thing is that all the actions relating to protect water resources let us to close 2020 with a reduction of water losses in Rome.

Water losses moved from 43.2% in 2017 to 29.5% in 2020. Well, this is a work that we started doing in 2017 when we had a water crisis. And back then, we started looking at losses and then we put in place a more structured work, not only compounding ourselves to water losses, but also improving the infrastructure so as to manage in a very balanced way the pressure of water. Results are brilliant. As of today, we have a water loss in Rome of 29% against the national average of around 42%.

And then we placed the 1st green bond for €900,000,000 That was very successful. We have been the 1st Italian company to issue a green bond with a negative yield. Fish rating has confirmed our long term issuer default rating as BBB plus with a stable outlook, which confirms our financial stability. Between April June, we made considerable straightforward in our sustainable offering to our customer. We launched a share e mobility AMP and mobility services not only in regional manner but also on national scale.

And energy sorry, Achea Energy launched It's Lucha 100 percent Green and Gas 0 CO2, which means offering customers energy produced with the renewable sources of energy and offering gas with a zero impact of CO2. In March 2021, we signed an agreement between Energy and Windtrail. We were the first one to do this, which means the possibility through a co branding agreement, we can offer services by Windtra. At the moment, within Windtra stores in Veneto and Puglia, We launched this kind of experimentation before expanding this service to other regions. Last but not least, yesterday we made the announcement of the acquisitions of 2 companies, which operate in the plastic and recycling sector.

These 2 companies are Surplus in Abruzzo and MEG in Veneto. We acquired 70% of Surplus and 60% of MEG. Little companies, but important from a strategic point of view because they close the cycle of plastic recycling. We have already companies here FerroCart for instance. And these two plants that we acquired have another piece of the value chain and which then lead us to take plastic and produce granules of plastics as to be able to recycle plastic.

Well, this is in line with our development process when it comes to waste management and we're trying now to cover all of the value chain as to sustainability. If you remember when we presented our plan in October, our business plan is very much focused on sustainability and we're now seeing the results also in terms of sustainability rating. Gaia rating in May 2021 gave us a score of 71 out of 100. Standard ethics improved its rating from EE- to EE. As an example, again on Page 3, we have a number of projects, initiatives related to innovation, which is a very important tool within the transition sorry, the digital transformation and ecological transition.

Together with 9 partners, we obtained a funding of NOK 12,000,000 for the Promises project, which is a call for proposals linked to Europe's Horizon 2020. We signed a memorandum of understanding to NACHA Innovation and the municipality of Tarentum for the city ecological transition, which will start with installation of REACH electric recharging station. Then we presented WeiDiWow, an updated revamped version of the app for people who care about water management and points of water recharge in all the points of the cities where you see water fountains. Well, this is all in line and consistent with our project. Page 4, let's see the financial highlights of the group in the 1st 6 months.

I have to say the company proved to have a sound financial position confirming the results we had in the Q1 of this year. Revenues, euros 1,824,000,000 plus 12.5 percent EBITDA, euros 619,000,000 plus 8.8 percent EBIT, euros 310,000,000 plus 10.3 percent Group net profit, euros 166,000,000 plus 15.3%. Let me make a comment here. Now you can see that the development that we put in place and that we should see later on in detail. Now the regulated and non regulated businesses in particular waste trading commercial area and energy mix, so the growth coming from different businesses allows us not only to grow the EBITDA of the company, regulated business have a very important role.

But also they have an impact on that waste treatment and energy have a lower depreciation component allows us to grow our net debt less. Then CapEx €481,500,000 plus 17.3 percent net debt, euros 3,913,000,000 to be compared with the €3,000,000,000, 528,000,000 at the end of 2020 and €3,000,000,000,000 527,000,000 in June 2020. At this point, I'll give the floor to the CFO, Mr. Fabio Paris, who will give you the details of the different businesses. Thank you very much, Giuseppe.

Good evening to everyone. Let's now move to the Slide number 5 and let's see the results of the operating businesses. Here the EBITDA, as we heard before EBITDA is growing by 8.8%. All businesses are contributing to this growth with the exception of electricity generation, which is however remaining stable. Now water is contributing with EUR 20,800,000 and which means EUR 326,000,000.

Now we need to underline the positive performance of Generation and Commercial and Training, which contribute, respectively, with EUR 11,300,000, EUR 10,700,000 with a total contribution of EUR 35,000,000 and EUR 40,000,000, respectively. The environment business is contributing with a positive performance with an increase in the period by 4,500,000 and a total contribution of around 31,000,000. The total EBITDA of the group amounts to 6 RMB618 100,000 which is mainly contributed by the contribution of regulated businesses, which remain stable versus the previous quarters. Now organic growth of the group net of the changes in the perimeter, in the scope of company is positive by 6%. In the table at the bottom of the page, you can see the changes in the scope of consolidation.

Let us now move to Page 6 and let us look now at the Water business performance. As we heard before, the Water business contributes positively to the growth of the EBITDA plus 6.8%. All of the companies of this business contribute with a positive performance with the exception of ADO5. Here, we need to remember that ATO5 had a review in March of 2021 of the WeChat. So that's the reason of the change in the performance.

However, the containment measures that we put in place allowed RTO-five to reach a result which is in line with the previous period. Let me remind you that the application of the tariff regime relates to the 3rd regulatory period related to 2020, 2023 and the growth in this business segment is led by investments that we shall see later on in detail. Investments here are quite significant and contribute to the growth of this period. As we said before, the results of the period is also positively affected by the line by line consolidation of SII Terni, EUR 7,000,000. The same within the water business, we have the distribution gas business and the change in the scope of consolidation related to the acquisition of Alto Sango Distribucion Gas, plus SEK 2,000,000 as you can see on Page 6.

Moving on to Page 7, Energy Infrastructure. Here you can see that the results of this business is in line with the previous quarters. Total electricity investment mix starting from 2016. We invested a lot in IT, which then started to give us the results. So we had to make efforts to maintain our performance here and we did so with constant industrial investments, which as I said have allowed us to maintain this level of growth.

As to the performance of public lighting, this is affected by the missing approvals for new assets in the city of Rome. Moreover, let me remind you that 2021 is the 1st year of the full rollout of 2 gs meters. We are now in line with our planning and smart meters or 2nd generation meters that we have installed as to the end of the first half twenty twenty one amounted to 150,000. Let's move on to page 8 where we shall see the generation business performance. The EBITDA in this area is growing considerably, but because of the expansion process of this business, the EBITDA here is growing by 46.9 percent.

Moving from €24,000,000 in the first half of twenty twenty to EUR 35,000,000 in H1 2021. CapEx move from EUR 7,700,000 to almost EUR 22,000,000 in H1 2021. So here, we have to say that the growth of the business is affected positively by the investments, by our CapEx. And as we know on the market, there is a price effect for energy, which is positively affecting these businesses as we should see also in other slides going forward. Total voltaic, €1,500,000 in terms of EBITDA.

New photovoltaic plants installed in the period have reached a total capacity of 62 megawatts, whereas we have under construction some 60 megawatts of capacity. Let's move to Page 9 and we should see here the commercial trading business performance. Here again, the EBITDA is brilliant, growing by 36% from EUR 30,000,000 more or less in the first half of twenty twenty to more than EUR 40,000,000 in H1 2021. CapEx are growing here too. And you can see 36,000,000 in the first half of twenty twenty one versus around 18,000,000 in the same period of the previous year.

Investments aim at improving the customer loyalty of our customers. So either trying to acquire new customers or better manage our customers with CRM systems. The quantity of energy sold is growing by 34% and the same applies to the number of electricity customers, which is growing by 17%. Even the gas business within this perimeter is growing both in terms of volumes and in terms of number of customers, 38%, 16%, respectively, as you can see on Page 9. Let's now move to Page 10 of the presentation.

You see here the environment business. As Giuseppe said before, in this period, we have the acquisition of Cerplast and MEG with an enterprise value of €12,000,000 and an EBITDA expected in 2021 of €3,000,000 with a multiple of these deals which is 4 times EBITDA volumes treated expected in 2021 around 70,000 tons per year as you can see on the table or in the table on the right side. Let's move to the performance of this business. EBITDA is growing by 17%, moving from €26,000,000 to €31,000,000 in the first half of twenty twenty one. The same applies to CapEx, which have grown by 55 percent from 9,500,000 to around 15,000,000.

At the same time and consistently so, we have an increase in volumes of waste treated and disposed of, whereas the electricity sold remains stable. Let me now move to the next slide which is Page 11 of the presentation. And here we can see the economic items below the EBITDA. EBIT is growing by 10.3% from EUR 280,900,000 in the first half of twenty twenty to around EUR 310,000,000 in H1 2021. And net profit is growing by EUR 15.3 million moving from EUR 143,800,000 in the first half of twenty twenty to EUR 165,800,000 in the first half of twenty twenty one.

The tax rate remains stable or slightly decreasing at 29.8 percent, whereas it was 30.5% in the first half of 2020. Now the components that affect positively the results considering the items below the EBITDA are depreciation growing by 8.3%. And then as we said, this is due to the increase in investments, but also in the change in the scope of consolidation, which occurred in 2020 and 2021. Impairments, as you can see bottom left, are related to the growth of commercial and trading businesses, but are in line with the positive performances, which have been achieved by the segments. Let's at this point move on to 12 where you can see the CapEx.

All the business areas have contributed to the growth of investments that move from EUR410,600,000 in the first half of twenty twenty to EUR 481,500,000 in the first half of twenty twenty one. The water business contributes with EUR 18,000,000 Energy Infrastructure, EUR 6,000,000 Generation because of the growth of the business, EUR 14,000,000. Commercial and trading as we saw before EUR 18,400,000. These investments are related to customer acquisition, customer loyalty and customer management with CRM systems. Environment EUR 5,300,000 and this is basically related to the growth in the scope of consolidation of this business.

Other businesses here investments are focused on regulated business, which account for 80% of our growth. But all the other businesses as well are continuing their growth, which is then reflected by the growth of investments as well. Let me now move to Page 13, where you see here the cash flow of the group. Now as you can see from the cash flow, well, we can see the positive performance of the group. The working capital of the group is improving by KRW 33 1,000,000, which is related to the positive performance of collections recorded in all the business areas with an improvement of working capital over the last 4 months from EUR 120,000,000 at the 30th June, 2020 to EUR 9,000,000 at the 30th June 2020, so an improvement of around EUR 121,000,000.

While the cash flow movements, as you can see in the waterfall table on the left, we have absorption of investments EUR 474,000,000 financial costs EUR 43,000,000 income tax paid EUR 44,000,000 change in provisions BRL 63,000,000 dividends BRL 117,000,000 distribution of dividends, which occurred in June this year. At this point, let me move on to Page 14, where we can see the financial components. The net debt EBITDA is in line with our forecast, 3.2 times. Net debt equity ratio, 1.7 times. The financial debt at the end of June 2021, EUR 3,913,000,000,000 to be compared with the debt of at the end of 2020 growing by €385,000,000 The structure that is unchanged versus the previous periods, but we do not have meaningful maturities in the short term for the group.

Let's move on to Page 15 of the presentation. We continue with our financial components. We have already mentioned the placement of the first green bond, 2 tranches of NOK 300,000,000 with a rate of 0% with the tranche maturing in 2025 and the other CHF 600,000,000 tranche with a rate of 0.25 percent maturing in 2013. The ratings are stable. As you can see, pitch ratings BBB plus stable outlook.

Moody's Baa2 stable outlook. The structure of the debt is 85 percent fixed rate. Average cost, which is decreasing because of the issues made 1.43% and the average term is 5.5 years. As we saw before when we talked about the debt maturities, we do not have maturities in the short term and 97% of our debt has maturities after 2022. As we already mentioned, sustainability ratings are improving, standard ratings and GAIA ratings are improving, double e positive and 78 out of 100, respectively.

And CDP with a rating of A- with A leadership position. At this point, the presentation is over. Ira, back to you. Thank you very much, Fabio. We can now move on to the Q and A session.

This is the Chorus Call conference operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. Now the first question by Javier Suarez with Mediobanca. I have 2 or 3 questions. The first on the working capital impact at Page 13.

Now I have seen the reduction versus last year. So I was wondering if you can give us a guidance as to where the net working capital should be at the year end And what are the management measures, which either you are implementing or whether you can implement to have a positive impact here? 2nd question, can you please make a comment on the Areira regulatory document on the regulatory work for next year? And perhaps you can tell me if there is something that you can improve during the consultation process, the same applies to the waste collection consultation. 3rd question about the supply business, which is Slide 9.

I'd like to have some more details about the evolution of the profitability. So I'd like to know what are the underlying dynamics that you are seeing considering that the results are so good? Good evening, Javier. Now as to the first question, now the negative working capital in the first half of the year is also related to the seasonality effect, which is related to the payments that we make to slice in the 1st part of the year. Now our net financial position in the first half is usually similar to what we expect to have within the end of the year.

If you look at the data, it's very much similar to what we expect. As to the working capital, we aim at having a working capital at the end of the year, which is going to be neutral, net of the regulatory impacts, which are around EUR 40,000,000, EUR 50,000,000. We expect working capital at the end of the year to be negative by EUR 40,000,000, EUR 50,000,000, which are totally related to the impact of regulations. Now as to the comments you asked about Arera. What I may tell you that in general in this moment, we are analyzing very carefully the document about the reduction of WACC.

Now versus the past, we see that the regulator has become a bit less balanced so to speak versus the past. But within the document, we see a very wide range about the possible reduction of what. So at the moment, we do not believe that this document leads to a substantial reduction of WACC. In this moment, however, we need to work with the regulator so as to provide a contribution leading to a result which should be appropriate for the system. Please remember that these things have an impact on the system, it can have an impact on tariffs, but also in a way stimulate investments which are fundamental for all of the system, particularly for distribution networks.

There, there is a considerable need for investments to be made to manage the energy transition. And here in particular, a lot has to be done in the areas of electricity distribution for electric mobility or investments to be made to absorb retail photovoltaic plants. And so we believe that at the end a balanced solution will be found. At the moment, we're not making forecasts, but we believe that we can get to a balanced solution at the end. As to the work of the environment business, well, we are working on the application of But it is true that some pieces are still missing so as to be able to have a full understanding of the application on all the periods expected.

And of course, we need to take into account the growth process that the group has within its pipeline. We do not, however, expect a major impact on the existing business, but we are assessing with a lot of attention the future possibilities and trying to understand what we are and what we want to be in the next future. As to the other question about margins of the commercial and trading business. Let me specify one thing. The first quarter was much better than the second, but there is no change of the performance process.

As we said in the conference call for the presentation of the Q1 results, we had very good results because of the growth of customers, but we had not been yet put in place marketing actions that we developed in Q2. For instance, we launched electricity and mobility services or the green offering for electricity and gas and that led to marketing and advertising investments which we did not have in Q1. As to the costs, therefore, we can say that the first half is, so to speak, a run rate for our costs. And I believe that the 2 quarters can kind of rebalance themselves. As to margins, we are witnessing margins, which are still growing on the free market.

And we had an increase in the period of Achmora for the regulated businesses. Thank you. Thank you very much, Javier. The next question by Enrico Bartoli with Stifel. Good evening, everyone.

I have a couple of questions as well. First of all, a question about the guidance. Can you give us a visibility about the main drivers that led you to review upward your guidance? I have then a question about photovoltaic plants, 60 megawatts of capacity, which is now being installed. Can you give us an indication of more or less when these plants will start operate and therefore contribute to the EBITDA?

And then any update about the search for a financial partner in the photovoltaic business. A question about the water business. Now we had a decrease in the first half of the business, a reduction of companies consolidated equity. Can we expect something different in H2? And then ENGIE Infrastructure, the growth trend that we've seen in H1, can we expect it to continue in H2?

And then will you be able to recover the negative EBITDA that you had here in the 2nd part of the year? Okay. Let me start from the beginning. As to our guidance, well, the answer is very simple. We are performing very well and our view lead us to believe that we can do better between versus the range that we indicated before that was between 6% 8%.

So obviously, we decided to say we expect to grow by 8%. So we expect the H1 result is going to be stable in terms of relative growth. Well, however, if you compare things with the previous year, let me tell you that this year we do not have meaningful one offs, but in 2020, in Q1 of last year, we had an underestimation of margins, which led to a reduction of the margin in Q1 and then an increase in the margins of Q2. Well, let's take an example of water. In Q1, we did not account all of the tariffs increases and we did not account for the sludge treatment and their effects on tariffs.

As to photovoltaic business, 60 megawatts are under construction. Some of these are however complete have been completed. I thought some of these could already be operating. We have some delay related to the connections of these plants to the network. So in some cases, some of the plants will start operating in a few days up to the end of the year.

So by the end of the year, they will all be operating. As to the search for a financial partner, we are proceeding as foreseen in these days. We are receiving non binding offers. We have or we are recording quite a good interesting from quite a good number of potential financial partners. So we are confident that we will be able to close the deal positively in terms of amounts paid or offering made, but also the quality of the partner that we will have.

So we may get to the closing of the deal by the end of the year. As to the company's consolidated equity in the water business, well, the negative performance is due to a number of post closing adjustments. This is due to the time lag between the closing of the financial statements of the companies and the closing of the financial statements of the group. There is a component in Tuscany, 0.5 5,500,000 as a negative component. But the water companies in Tuscany, this has to be taken as a recurrent impact because this is due to the increased depreciation in these companies, which are mainly related to a financial depreciation of tariffs and investments, which are related to that.

Basically, this is due to the tariff policy, which is ongoing, which requires certain depreciations on the period of concession. So there is a curve of depreciations and which of course also contributes to the net equity. As we said before, this is related to also to a delay of authorizations. I'm speaking about no longer about water, but public lightning. The slowing down of authorizations is actually affecting the performance of the public lightning business.

We expect this to recover because these are investments which are necessary to the city of Rome and we expect things to recover from here to the end of the year. But at the moment, it's very difficult to foresee it or forecast it exactly. Now as to the Arete area, as we saw during the presentation, here we witness constantly a growth process. We can deem or we can see it is going to be stable versus the first half performance. Here again, we need to take into account the investments made in previous years.

These are investments in ITs, which are taken into account when it comes to tariffs. At the moment, the company is making infrastructure investments, which can be passed on the tariffs on a longer period of time. And for this reason, before we were emphasizing the brilliant performance here, the growth is constant, although we replaced investments, which have an impact on tariffs on a shorter period of time with investments that have an impact on a longer period of time on tariffs. Stefano Gambieri has the next question. Stefano Gambieri with Equitas.

Good evening. I have three questions to ask. The first is on the recovery plan. Can you tell us the upside there you can see for your group related to the recovery plan, especially in the water business, where there are new opportunities and new resources available for investments? A review of the system, which is seen as too much fragmented and investments to be made about the purification of water as well.

So should small operators not be capable to do something, large operators should step in? And then energy generation, so how are you assessing possible contribution coming from the recovery plan? And then regulation, I wonder whether again there you may see opportunity coming from the recovery fund? Second question about the guidance of CapEx, €900,000,000 debt €385,000,000 The previous guidance included also €100,000,000 of M and A. So I would like to know what is the value of the M and A included in the new guidance?

Now do you have any deal, any transaction that we may see in the second part of the year when it comes to M and As? And then another question about the energy. You have accelerated investments, now 100,000 customers, €36,000,000 of investments, so €360 each. Can we expect a similar trend in the 2nd part of the year? And can you perhaps mention what kind of churn rate you have?

A question basically about the stability of customers given the money that you invest to acquire new customers. Thank you. Good evening, Stefan. Let me take your questions. Now as to the PNRR, well, I have my if you wish my personal or we have our own view on which we are working quite carefully, I'd say.

Now, so I don't have a specific question to your answer about the economic upside, but I can tell you what we think we may kind of get. Now, first of all, in the water business or in the world of development of water infrastructure, I see opportunities for our companies not so much in Atel 2 where we have some €300,000 of investments, which is somewhat connected to tariffs. But we don't have this problem in ATO2, whereas we have opportunities in other companies, say, ato V, Gori, Akudotel Fjora in the Umbria region. So areas where the population density and where the possibility to cover investments through tariffs is limited and where we have somewhat oldish infrastructures where investments are necessary. So the PNRR for us is an opportunity to make these additional infrastructure investments.

But we do not see these investments contributing directly to our P and L, but we see these investments as improving the infrastructures as a whole. Now if we have investments in water cleaning system or purifying system, while the contribution will not have an impact on our P and L. But at the end, the system will then manage this system after its implementation and that has a contribution on the P and L or an economic contribution. The same applies to energy distribution and waste. Now the PNRR is considered a plan where you have funds available to be invested, whereas for me is a structural reform of the country, which in order to work requires money, requires funds.

So from an infrastructure point of view in the waste business, but also in the energy distribution, what I see is the possibility to do things in an easier way as to waste. We do not have lack of capital when we are asked to invest money in a new plant in Rome, we don't have we don't need public money. So what I'm trying to say is that whatever is present in the PNRR certainly is funds that can be invested, but which will make the system easier to manage. Let me give you an example also of e mobility. We are not looking for funds to install recharging stations in Rome.

We have a problem which are which is related to authorization process and development. This reason becomes difficult. So we can't make precise forecasts in this moment. But considering the areas in which the PNR is focused on and considering our business, what we believe that in many of these areas, we can have an active role and therefore have a related or correlated positive effect on our P and L. As to the question about the guidance, when it's true that our guidance included some 100,000,000 of M and A.

So far, we've made less than half of this. We have a few deals in the pipeline. So we're not going to stop here and we hope to announce the closing of new deals in the short term, we hope. But on the other hand, we haven't changed our guidance on CapEx 900,000,000. Well, let me say 900,000,000 plus 100,000,000 is something I can confirm.

So €900,000,000 of investments, €100,000,000 of M and A, more or less €1,000,000,000 Now let me make a comment on about commercial and trading. If you the average cost of acquisition is €115,000,000 As we said before, euros 16,800,000 are related to the acquisition of customers. And then we have another major component, which is investments on CRM systems that we mentioned before. As to the churn rate, it is slightly increasing, but under control. Now we've witnessed growth in the number of customers.

And of course, when you grow so much the number of customers, say, you're much more exposed to a reduction of the churn rate. In the commercial and trading area, we have made provisions, which are related to the growth rate that we are witnessing here. If I can a follow-up question, going back to the opportunities related to the PNRR fund. I wonder whether the update of the business plan, you may publish it this year or next year or you can lengthen the business plan to include the medium to long term opportunities? Well, let me tell you that today, I see our business plan very much in line with what we are seeing.

So I don't think we're going to make an update of the business plan this year. More or less, we're going to update it in next year, next spring, perhaps extend the business plan to a longer period. But to tell you the truth, we're not thinking about this. Well, thank you very much for this very sincere reply. Next question by Emanuele Ojani, Kepler Cheuvreux.

Good evening and thank you very much for your presentation. I have three questions as well. Now the first question is about tariff increases for 2021. I wanted from you a confirmation of what you said before, meaning there at the 2 tax increases of 5.8% out of 5%, 4%. 2nd question I have is a kind of a follow-up question related to the simplification measures that you mentioned before.

Now at the moment, how much are you satisfied about the so called simplification process related to the opening up of new sites, new construction sites? A few days ago, one of the main operator in the electricity distribution said that because the new rules, as some of the investments are at risk and new rules may cause some further delays. So can you give us our opinion here? And a third question I have is about an update about the situation in Tuscany. You are indirectly related to the creation of the new entity, which is being created in Tuscany and you have a stake in Publiacuem.

So I'd like to know whether you are working on this to try and enhance the value of your stake or whether you are thinking about other scenarios? Thank you. I do apologize, but we're not receiving sound from the original conference. I'm sorry, I missed the first part of the question because for a moment the line was interrupted. Now let me tell you that the regions in which we are operating are not having a constructing approach to the simplification process.

So this is something that we should perhaps assess better. This is why before when talking about the DPNRR, Well, at the moment, we are making our forecasts. We're doing our business as if that plan did not exist. It's true that really these reforms are necessary. So before making any forecast about the impact, we are going to be very cautious.

As to Tascu, I don't have any major news versus what I said last time. We gave our availability to play an active role in the multi utility. But on the other hand, the basic idea of the multi utility that they have does not include an industrial partner like that share. So we're just waiting and seeing as to the tariff increase of ATO2 and ATO5, we confirm what we said before. And for ATO2, the increase is 5.6% and ATO5% is around 4%.

In 805, there is a process or a litigation about the tariff proposed by the local operator. We confirm however a 4% increase at the moment for tariffs, which is in line with ATO5. Thank you. Well, ladies and gentlemen, there are no other questions from the conference call. Well, thank you very much for connecting to this conference call.

However, if you have any other question, the IR service is available. Thank you very much and have a good evening.

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