Good afternoon, this is the Chorus Call conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Ariston Third Quarter and Nine Months 2025 Results Conference Call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Should anyone need assistance during the conference call, they may signal an operator by pressing Star and Zero on their telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to the Ariston Management. The floor is yours.
Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining Ariston Group Third Quarter and Nine Months 2025 Results Call. I'm Albert Pozzi, Chief Marketing, Sustainability and Investor Relations Officer. Joining me today are Maurizio Brusadelli, our Chief Executive Officer, and Riccardo Gini, our Chief Financial Officer. Today's presentation will last about 25 minutes, after which we will open the floor for questions. As a reminder for those joining by phone, the slide deck is available on our Investor Relations website. I hand over the call to Maurizio.
Thank you, Albert, and hi, everyone. Let me start with page three, where we see an overview of our quarter three results. This year, as said many times, our focus is on growth, and I'm glad to comment on a very strong performance in quarter three with a +4.2% organic growth. This is the third sequential quarter of positive organic growth. In heating, the growth has been supported by a strong development of heat pumps, especially in Germany, and our ability to gain market share in our core countries despite weak external markets, which are in some geographies at the bottom of the last 10-15 years. Water heating business continues to deliver a solid performance, leveraging on our leadership position in many countries around the globe and on a stable external market trend.
Adjusted EBIT margin improved by 110 basis points like for like in quarter three, again the third sequential quarter of year-on-year improvement. Thanks to the execution of the Fit to Win program and to the operating leverage, which more than offsets our increased investments in go-to-market, digital, and R&D initiatives. Free cash flow was positive in quarter three thanks to organic growth and continuous focus on working capital despite higher investments. Regarding the activities of recent months, I share with you three highlights. The first one is that in September, we announced an investment plan for Italy, including a new factory in Albacina, Italy, dedicated to the production of next-generation electric water heaters. The ambition is to build the best European plant for technological and industrial excellence. The plant will embed artificial intelligence and digital twin capabilities and fully embrace the world-class manufacturing methodology.
This is not an additional plan, but the relocation of the Genga historical plant that will be closed. On sustainability, we are proud to share great improvements of our ESG ratings, a testament to our continuous commitment and quality of actions to achieve our 2030 ESG strategy. I will talk more about it shortly. Lastly, in October, we announced the acquisition of a brand new production plant in India dedicated to water heating. The plant will increase proximity to the Indian market. In line with our growth strategy to have local manufacturing capability in strategic markets, enhance cost competitiveness and supply chain flexibility. To conclude this introduction, we are very satisfied with the quarter three and year-to-date performance, which is in the upper range of what we previously communicated to the market.
Based on our nine-month results and the progress observed in October, we are improving our revenues' organic growth guidance to around +3% versus previous year. If we now go to slide four. I talk a bit more about sustainability. As you know, this is part of Ariston Group's DNA since its foundation. We have published in 2023 a well-elaborated 2030 ESG strategy named Road to 100 that is available to everyone on our corporate website. We work every day to improve toward our 2030 targets with tangible actions. At the beginning of the year, we published Ariston Group's sustainability statement, prepared for the first time in accordance with the European Sustainability Reporting Standard, which has been a further step in increasing our external communication on ESG activities. It is very rewarding to see such a positive trend of our ESG ratings.
As you can see, all ESG rating agencies that published an update in 2025, EcoVadis, S&P, and Bloomberg, position Ariston Group now in the top quartile of our peer industry. Now we move to page five. As every quarter call, I would like to give you a quick reminder on who we are. I know most of you know, but there are always some people joining for the first time in the call, so I always would like to explain who we are. We offer thermal comfort solutions with a balanced exposure to water heating and climate comfort. Water heating on the right is a resilient business, and we are among the leaders in Europe and outside Europe. We are present in emerging markets with growing population and still low but rising penetration of water heating solutions.
Climate comfort on the left includes heating services, parts, ventilation, and air handling. In the heating business, we offer one of the most complete ranges of technologies in the sector, from gas boilers to the most advanced heat pumps and hybrid systems. We offer a comprehensive range of high-efficiency and renewable solutions to enable the energy transition. Finally, the components and burners divisions complete our business lines, each accounting for 3% of total group turnover. Moving to slide six, we provide our regular update on the German heating market, our largest country accounting for circa 20% of group revenues in 2024. Historically, the German heating market grew by 4% in volume over the 10-year period from 2013 to 2022, with an enriching product mix toward high efficiencies and renewable solutions.
2023 was an exceptional year, driven by incentives and concerns over a potential gas boiler buying in 2024, which ultimately did not materialize. In 2025, the market is at the lowest point of the last 15 years in volume, well below historical replacement rate. Heat pumps have returned to strongly growing after 2024 restocking, supported by a good incentive scheme with average monthly incentive application above 20,000. The boiler market is very weak. Now I will pass to you, Riccardo, and comment more deeper on our quarter three financial performance.
Thank you, Maurizio. Let's now move to slide number eight, which illustrates the year-on-year evolution of net revenues. As a reminder, Russia was excluded from the 2024 consolidation perimeter and was reconsolidated at the end of March of 2025. For reporting purposes, this impact is treated as an M&A contribution. In the third quarter, our revenues increased by 5.8% year-on-year, reaching EUR 668 million. This performance was primarily driven by strong organic growth of 4.2%, supported by the recovery of heat pumps, especially in Germany. In the Americas, performance is normalizing after the strong second quarter, which had benefited from preloading activities following the tariff announcements. The water heating segment continued to perform well across all regions, though results were partially offset by unfavorable foreign exchange movements. Our service and parts division also maintained a solid growth trajectory consistent with the pace recorded in the first part of the year.
As in the previous quarter, currency volatility continued to have a significant impact on our reported figures, -1.7% in Q3 compared to -1.6% in Q2, with major headwinds from the Mexican peso, the US dollar, and several Asia-Pacific currencies. Finally, regarding the scope change. Perimeter changes contributed 3.3 percentage points to our growth in the quarter, mainly reflecting the reconsolidation of the Russian business along with the two bolt-on acquisitions in our components division, DDR Heating in the U.S. and Z.R.E. in Italy. To summarize, we delivered organic growth of 3.4% in the first nine months of the year, consistent with our full-year guidance. Foreign exchange had a negative impact of 1.2%. While the Russian business reconsolidation and the two bolt-on acquisitions added 2.2 percentage points, resulting in total growth of 4.4%. Moving on to slide number nine.
Here you can see the evolution of our net revenues by geography, which continues the trend observed in the first half of the year. Let me remind you that for comparison purposes, the Russian business was excluded from the 2024 consolidation perimeter, starting from the end of April and re-included as of the end of March 2025. We are pleased to report mid-single-digit organic growth across our main core regions: Europe, Asia-Pacific, and Middle East/Africa. In addition, our business divisions continued to perform well in the third quarter. As shown in the appendix, the burners and components divisions combined together achieved a +5% organic year-on-year increase, confirming their solid momentum. In Europe, net revenues reached EUR 481 million, up 4.8% year-on-year when excluding Russia. This reflects the recovery of the heating market, particularly heat pumps in Germany, and our capability to perform overall better than market trends.
In Asia-Pacific and Middle East/Africa, we reported a 5% organic increase, although performance was significantly impacted by foreign exchange movements. Finally, in the Americas, the market is normalizing after the peak recorded in Q2, while foreign exchange also had a notable negative effect on reported results. Moving further down into the P&L, let's turn to slide number 10, which highlights our adjusted EBIT performance. In the third quarter, adjusted EBIT increased by 21.3% year-on-year, reaching EUR 48 million. This was accompanied by a 90 basis point improvement in margin, bringing it to 7.2%. At constant perimeter, the improvement was even stronger, up 110 basis points with a 7.4% margin. This solid performance reflects the continued execution of our efficiency initiatives and the benefit of operating leverage, which together more than offset the acceleration of our growth investment initiatives, particularly in go-to-market, digital transformation, and R&D.
For reference, reported EBIT in Q3 stood at EUR 36 million. The main adjustments included EUR 7 million related to right-sizing actions and EUR 5 million from purchase price allocation amortization related to past acquisitions. As a reminder, our adjusted EBITDA historically shows a seasonal pattern with an average distribution of approximately 30% in the first half and 70% in the second half of the year, as shown in the chart on the bottom right. Turning to slide number 11, let's take a look at our free cash flow performance. In the third quarter, free cash flow was positive at EUR 15 million. While this is lower than the EUR 37 million recorded in the same quarter of last year, it is worth noting that Q3 2024 benefited from exceptional working capital reduction and a favorable tax cash-out timing.
As a reminder, and as shown in the appendix on slide number 31, the fourth quarter is typically our strongest in terms of cash generation, mainly due to seasonal effects. The positive performance achieved this quarter reflects our organic growth and improved level of profitability despite the higher investments made. We have maintained discipline in working capital management, and compared to last year, our working capital-to-sale ratio improved by 3.1 percentage points on a like-for-like basis. The impact from the Russian subsidiary and the two bolt-on acquisitions can be seen in the gray area on the right-hand side of the slide. For further details on the main drivers, please refer to the nine-month cash flow statement provided in the appendix. Further items affecting the third quarter include CapEx, which increased by EUR 4.7 million, reaching EUR 35.5 million, in line with our 2025 guidance. Paid taxes were flat year-over-year.
On slide number 12, you'll find an overview of the movements in our adjusted net debt since year-end 2024. As shown in the previous slide, the free cash flow contributed by EUR 1 million in the first nine months. We also recorded a EUR 17 million cash outflow from acquisitions, primarily related to the two bolt-on acquisitions for components divisions. DDR in the U.S. announced it in March, and the 80% of Z.R.E in Italy announced it in June, as well as some additional minority stake investments. Other movements included a EUR 29 million cash outflow for financial and effects charges, EUR 29 million for the distribution payment to shareholders, and around EUR 4 million in known cash positive adjustments. These known cash items mainly consist of EUR 2.4 million mark-to-market derivatives impact, EUR 8 million in interest accruals, EUR 1 million from.
IFRS 16 lease liability adjustments, and -EUR 7.3 million impact from exchange rate variations on net financial indebtedness. The increase in net debt over the first nine months of the year was lower than in the same period last year, and the leverage ratio improved slightly to 2.2x compared to 2.3x at the end of September last year. Vis-à-vis last year, net debt increased by EUR 71 million. Compared to EUR 170 million increase at the end of September 2024. Due to lower cash outflow for acquisitions, dividend payments, and the execution of buyback in 2024. In conclusion, excluding EUR 46 million of cash outflows related to capital allocation, namely distribution to shareholders and acquisitions, the cash absorption from business operations and financial management was limited. Turning on to slide number 13. This slide provides a detailed view of our capital structure.
In the third quarter, we extended the duration of our known current bank debt up to 3.7 years, up from 3.2 years at the end of June. As a result of a successful negotiation with our partner banks, approximately 90% of maturities are now concentrated between 2027 and 2032. Our exposure to variable interest rates remains limited to less than 40% of our long-term debt. At the same time, we continue to maintain around EUR 900 million of available credit lines, giving us ample financial flexibility to support both organic and inorganic growth going forward. With that, I'll now hand the call over to Maurizio, who will conclude the presentation by sharing our guidance and outlook. Thank you.
Thank you, Riccardo. I am now on page 15.
As said before, and to summarize, we are very happy with the progress achieved year to date, which marked a solid return to positive organic growth over the last three quarters despite weak external heating markets. We improved our expectation for the 2025 top line. Given the solid performance over the first nine months and the trend we see in the beginning of Q4, we have decided to improve our full-year net revenue guidance to around +3% organic growth from the previous +1% to +3% range. Turning to profitability, we confirmed our adjusted EBIT margin target in the 7+% range at like-for-like perimeter, meaning excluding Russia and M&A contributions. As normal, cash flow generation is expected to be concentrated in the fourth quarter, consistent with our historical seasonality. On CapEx, we confirm our guidance at 5%-6% of net revenue for 2025.
A level exceptionally above historical average. We continue to assess strategic and bolt-on M&A opportunities if. With strong strategic rationale. Given the current value of our share, far from the fair value, today the board authorized a buyback program up to 2 million shares to cover the future LTI plans. Thank you for your attention. Now to you, Albert, to handle the Q&A.
Thank you, Maurizio. We are available for your questions. To make sure that everyone gets the chance to speak, we kindly ask you to limit your questions to a maximum of two for each turn. Operator, please open the line. Hello? Operator, we cannot hear you. Can you hear us from Chorus Call team?
The first question is from Alessandro Tortora Mediobanca. Please go ahead.
Yes, I would like to ask everybody. I have two questions. Okay.
The first one is on the. Let's say I listened to your. Comment on the German market. I understood that the progress on the heat pump side in Germany. Can you comment a little bit more on the performance on the gas boiler side? Clearly, we saw this very negative number, okay, on the gas. Based side. Can you tell us a little bit what is happening there in the country, considering the basically no replacement happening there? What's your view, let's say, in the coming. Years, meaning next year or next two years, considering that. District heating may in theory affect or not also the pace of the replacement? This is the first question. Then I will go with the second one.
Thank you, Alessandro. I mean, as you said, gas boilers are at the bottom.
I think we always comment that maybe people are waiting and see what the government will say about the future, which kind of incentives they will give to heating heat pump, and especially for gas boilers, they want to understand if this will be released and relaxed and that they can invest on a gas boiler. I think while we are very happy to see that the transition to heating heat pump is working, I think for the next years. I would expect the gas boiler market to go back to growth again. Let's see what the government will decide. There are a lot of speculations, which I'm sure, like us, you can read on many newspapers, but since we are not in the government, we cannot really comment on what they would do or not do on relaxation in terms of gas boilers.
We expect, as I said, the replacement rate to go up because this is a level which is dramatically low.
Sorry, on this, do you have anything, any deadline? I know it's a political stuff, but do we have any deadline, I don't know, beginning of next year or end of this year in order to understand which decision the government will take on this?
I mean, they normally would have to say something by end of November, beginning of December. I mean, we know that they announced that the incentives are covered for next year. It could be that this will move to Q1 2026 in terms of communication. Honestly, it's really difficult to understand. They said they have the fund for 2026, but we don't know when they will say something. I mean, there are also elections that are coming up.
Locally in the next March, so I do not know if they will do before or after elections. Honestly, I wish I would know more, but I do not.
Okay, okay. Thanks. The second question is on also your comment on the willingness to do, let's say, to take a bolt-on option or a strategic M&A. Can you comment a little bit about, let's say, the M&A environment basically we see in Europe? Reading the press, there are some assets in Italy, in France, potentially, let's say, under disposal. How do you see, let's say, your competition in Europe, also considering that we may have as potential buyers also some Asian players, and therefore how this could play for Ariston. As an example, let's assume that there will be a strong interest from Asian players to take, let's say.
To take an asset to Europe, how this could play also for you. If you can elaborate a little bit more because clearly we read press articles mentioning, let's say, a lot of assets now coming into the market. Thanks.
Yeah, obviously, I would not comment on what is written in the press. I think Ariston has a proven track record in being a consolidator with many acquisitions done in the last decade and also some bolt-on that we are doing this year. I think we always said that this market will consolidate. We want to be the consolidator and one of the consolidators, and I think we will continue to work on both bolt-on and strategic acquisition, which obviously have to have a strategic rationale or a strong financial case. This is what we will continue to do.
No, I see that.
Sorry, a follow-up on this. Do you see, let's say, a strategic rationale for this structure to, I don't know, monitor a potential M&A opportunity even in the gas-based space? Or is it just, let's say, renewable interest in AM?
Yeah, I'm not sure I got the question because it was a bit strange. Tell me, Albert.
No, the question is, no, maybe I reformulate this. The question is, are you looking, for instance, for assets, let's say, not only in the, let's say, across technologies, no heating technologies? You may also look at, for instance, that's the question. Okay.
I mean, we look at the line is bad, but I think Albert got the question better than me. Go, Albert, because
The question is whether we are restricting our screening to players in heat pump or we're looking to multiple technologies.
No, we are looking to multiple technologies. We want to consolidate our position as we did recently with some components acquisitions. If we see the opportunity to be stronger, I mean, obviously, both in components, burners, thermal comfort, and water heating, we will act.
Okay. Thanks.
To you.
The next question is from Alessandro Cecchini of Equita.
Hello everybody, and thank you for taking my questions. The first one, actually, it's on your overperformance in third quarter that was important, looking at some of your peers. I presume that this kind of overperformance is continuing also on these key four quarters. Can you elaborate a little bit more on the reason behind this? Is it more a mix, more your focus on heat pumps in Germany? Just to add more color. That is largely, of course, given your footprint to Europe.
If you can elaborate this a little bit more on your overperformance and the drivers. This is my first question.
Thank you, Alessandro. I mean, as Riccardo commented, our performance, it was good across the different regions. We perform much better than the market, meaning that our in-market execution, both from a sales, marketing, and technology, has been done well. It is something that we put focus on. We continue to put focus on and investment. I think this is giving us now results. We see our business doing well in market share in our core countries and across all heating, water heating, and also we are performing well in the divisions. Also, our service is doing fine. I think it is important to underline how strong we continue to be in the service. I think overall we are satisfied and happy.
Obviously, it is an everyday measurement with our competitors, but I'm very happy to see that in tough market conditions, we are doing well. We continue to invest for the future because the market will go back and will go back to the historical growth, both in heating and water heating. Our ability to gain share now will have a tailwind when the markets go back. I think it is across. It's not only heating heat pump in Germany. It's across gas boilers. It's very strong in water heating and across all the regions. Yes, there are maybe minor positions, but overall very good performance, better than the market.
Okay. Thank you on this. In terms of, instead of in terms of the guidance. We understood that in terms of organic top-line growth, the implied four quarters is + 1%, + 2%, of course.
Given your guidance. But in terms of margins, so just to understand. According to my calculation, probably Russian business could be dilutive of 10 bps-20 bps for the year. Is something reasonable or not. So just to make, I will say, a reported number, so it could be very helpful. Thank you.
Yeah, I mean, I think you are right. Russian business is dilutive for us. As we said, we are working to make sure that things are going back at its possible best, considering obviously the guidelines and the restrictions that we have to follow. Russia is dilutive. The rest of the business is doing fine, and that's why we reaffirm our 7+% guidance.
Okay. So just if we can elaborate on Russia.
You expect, I mean, this kind of because maybe I am wrong, but at the beginning of the year, probably your expectations for Russia were better, I will say. The margins, I remember that your comments were, I mean, margins not so bad, I will say, probably now are, of course, a little bit worse than expected. Just to elaborate when you expect to gain more traction. Just a little bit of color on this. Thank you.
Yeah. I am not sure I commented on Russian numbers because we said we would give Russian numbers now. We always commented how profitable was Russia before. The fact that happened, obviously, last year. Now, the level where we are today is much lower, and we have to restore and work to improve our position there, but it is highly dilutive today.
We will have to improve year after year and respecting, as I said, all the restrictions that we have. In terms of the way we do business in Russia. This is where we stand.
Okay. Thank you.
The next question is from Davide Rimini of Intesa Sanpaolo.
Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question. I have one question on cost synergies. I just wonder whether you might update us on the level of synergies that you have reached so far versus the EUR 50 million target on a three-year plan. I have a second question.
Yeah. It is cost reduction. It is clear. Obviously, I think we can say that we are well on track on what we said we would have done with Fit to Win. We said that this program will be implemented within 2027 with a permanent effect of.
Around EUR 50 million. I have to say that with what we did a little bit last year and what we see this year, which is around EUR 20 million, it is going well. If you want to have an update on cost synergies, which is what we had at the time of Wolf- Brink acquisition, also on that front, we are doing very well. I think we accelerated, and we are very satisfied with the level that we are having. We will have a lot of interesting new news for the future that we will highlight during 2026.
Right. Sorry, just to get it clear, I said EUR 20 million. Is that you are referring to this year? So it is EUR 20 million out of the EUR 50 million, right?
Correct.
Okay, I got it.
On the Fit to Win, which are not the synergies of Wolf-Brink. Yeah, right.
Instead, on cost synergies, I just want to sort of follow up, but since you're mentioning it, probably you're going to sort of, without us, next to do more on the synergies and the Wolf-Brink acquisition. Is there any way sort of linked also sort of to the operating leverage that we have learned on the way down, but we might learn on the way up. Reconsidering sort of the different German pricing and the cost structure that you have versus other countries?
I mean, obviously, with this top line, we see the benefit of scale. And obviously, in terms of mix, we always said that the countries that are part of Central Europe are more positive. So Germany, it was and it is our first country, and we see very positive leverage thanks to the fact that we are picking up in heating heat pump.
When the market will go back overall, growth in the next years, this will be even better.
Right. The second question would be just to follow up in terms of topic mentioned before, and it's been M&A. Now, you mentioned already sort of that it's across technologies and it is both bolt-on and strategic ones. I just wonder whether from a regional or from a geographical, if you want, standpoint, you mentioned earlier sort of the significant investment that the group has been doing in the domestic market, and it has been highlighted in the recent event in September. I just wonder whether strategically, would you make any exception to the rule of being already well represented to the domestic market in terms of current presence and the level of investments that you're still sort of planning over the coming years?
Yeah, I think we are pretty flexible.
I mean, as you said, we announced those investments in Italy. Again, we are closing a plant and opening a new one, which will be much more effective and efficient. In the meantime, we announced the joint venture with Lennox, which is in the U.S. We announced the acquisition of a plant in India. We are opening a new plant in Serbia and in Egypt. We are really working to optimize our footprint and improve our cost effectiveness to make sure that we are close to the markets in a very efficient way.
Right. Can I assume sort of that the domestic market should not be sort of requiring additional sort of focus in terms of M&A?
I think it depends. If there is an opportunity, first of all, Italy is only 10% of our revenue.
It's true that we are an Italian multinational, but it's not our domestic market or biggest market in Germany. I think we will see what fits with our strategy and with our position in the markets. We are really open to everything. It could be an acquisition in Italy or something else in Europe or in the U.S. or in EMEA. We are not saying yes or no upfront to opportunities.
Right. Okay. I was just referring to if 10% of your revenues is also sort of almost 50% of your manufacturing capacity. Is that correct?
No, we didn't give this number, but I mean, it's 10% of our revenue. On manufacturing capacity, it's a lower number, but it's fine.
Okay. Thank you.
The next question is from Isacco Brambilla of Mediobanca.
Hi. Good afternoon, everybody. Just one question on my side.
It's on cash flow. Last year, you got a lot of cash generation from working capital in the final part of the year. How should we think about scope for improvements this year compared to the roughly 15% working capital on sales recorded as of the end of this third quarter? Also on that, whether on that financial position, you are not giving guidance, but if EUR 600 million, that is where consensus stands, is roughly speaking something achievable for this year.
I can take this one. Thanks for the question, Isacco. I mean, as we look at the trajectory and the performance achieved year to date, as well as the latest commitments we are making on managing working capital, I think we can improve it by the end of the year compared to the balance you see at the end of September.
Let's take in mind that from a full-year perspective, the cash flow will be affected by the higher CapEx, consistent with the guidance. So we communicated CapEx spending between 5% and 6%, which we can confirm. Prior year were around 4%. So that will add a little bit of a headwind to the free cash flow generation of the full year. That being said, as we are moving forward, the leverage expected at year-end, I think we can still be below two times the adjusted EBITDA. So that's going to be our goal.
Okay. Very clear. And thanks, maybe a follow-up on margin. You mentioned a lot of improvements, say also thanks to the consolidation of Wolf-Brink. Is it fair to assume the margin of your business in Germany to be attractive to the average of the rest of the group?
Yes.
I mean, we always said that obviously Germany, Switzerland, I mean. Both in terms of absolute value and in terms of percentage, they are attractive to the group.
Okay. Thanks.
To you.
The next question is from Christian Hinderaker of Goldman Sachs.
Yes. Good afternoon, and thanks for the questions. I want to start, if I can, on that last comment on. I guess, mix and the margin. If I think back historically, the message was that there was not a margin mix benefit from selling a heat pump versus a boiler or hot water system. Obviously, a higher price point might mean higher EBIT, but there was no margin improvement. And at the time, that was ascribed to lower volumes in heat pumps, meaning that they were not automated to the same degree in terms of production. I guess the question is. Has that changed.
Or does that rule of thumb still hold?
I mean, I think it's still holding. We said that in percentage across our technologies and between heating and water heating, we don't have big variation of margin. Obviously, if I sell a German heating heat pump versus India 10 liters water heaters, there is an absolute value which is completely different. And the fact that the heating heat pump is doing so well and we are gaining share in Germany, it's helping us in absolute value. Financially.
Thank you, Maurizio. And I guess as we think about those share gains, how do we think about price dynamics in the quarter? I don't know if you want to add any color in terms of any difference across different regions and how that's progressed through the year.
Yeah. I mean, as always, it's a competitive market.
I mean, it's something that I always committed, and we say that we have to stay alerted. As a reminder, in Germany, we are more in the mid to high segment of the market, so we don't really compete at the entry level. We are a bit more protected. In general, you might understand when the markets are not flourishing as they are today, there is a bit of competition there. I think it's something that we are managing well. It's something that we expected a bit, but nothing completely dramatic versus what we expected or we saw in the past. Obviously, the greater activities are on product lines that will be discontinued due to the regulation from 2026 onward. This is where maybe there is higher competition on price. In general, it's something that we monitor.
I mean, the margins, as you see, are good, and we continue to manage well. Also thanks to our efficiency initiatives that we are doing both in terms of productivity when we think about production and also the fact that, I mean, since we are a premium brand, we are more protected, as I said.
Thank you. If I can just squeeze a final one in, maybe. Your midterm guidance, mid-single-digit organic growth, and obviously then a double-digit margin, we are sort of delivering nearly in terms of the growth numbers today. I appreciate off a low base, but I just want to understand a little bit. Is the gap from 7 to 10 now more about returning to a sufficient scale, or is this more Fit to Win? Just curious what stage we will be seeing mid-single-digit organics and can be putting in a 10 margin rather than today's 7 or so.
I mean, as you said, we lost the scale versus when we were doing 10% margin, but I think we are in a good trajectory to go back to the historical level as we continue to improve scale. I mean, we have to continue to work on making sure that we are fit, especially in the functions that are not really contributing to winning in the market. In the meantime, we continue to invest for the future. This is not something that we will stop. The markets are depressed. We are sure that they will go back, and we have to be ready to win. We protect our price premiumness thanks to investments in R&D, sales, IT technology, and digitalization. It is a path.
I think we always said that we would need some years, and this, I think, is the first good year that is putting us back in the right trajectory.
Understood. Thank you.
To you.
As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press star and one on your telephone. The next question is from Michele Baldelli of BNP Paribas.
Hi. Good afternoon to everybody. I have a question on the other revenues line because in the last quarter, that line was pretty consistent. The nine-month figure is EUR 73.2 million. I was wondering what has caused this sudden increase of that line, please.
Hi, Michele. This is Riccardo . You are referring to the service line item? We can follow up on this one if you want.
Okay. Thank you.
The next question is a follow-up from Alessandro Tortora, Mediobanca.
Yes. The follow-up, two brief follow-ups.
The first one is if you can come back a little bit to your comment on the CapEx, credit digital is at an extraordinary level, 5%-6% of sales. Should we think, let's say, about next year that we'll turn, let's say, to 4% of sales, or you still see, let's say, a sort of tail end of some other investments? This is the first question. The second one is on India. Okay. You invested, let's say, into this brand new plant, from probably involving also Groupe Atlantic. Can you tell us, let's say, a little bit about your exposure today or for instance, how much revenue you do in India and which kind of markets you see there? Probably is it much more not water market, I guess. Just understand a little bit what's your view on India.
Let's say it is a very low base, but in theory, it's a very promising market for you. Thanks.
Yes. I think in terms of CapEx for 2026, probably it's better to speak when we will talk about full-year results and what we expect for next year. As I said before, I mean, this year is exceptionally high. We have the intention to continue to invest in the market to be ready when all the markets will go back to historical growth. For India, I mean, as you know, is the country which is having and will have the highest level of population. We are there with the brand Racold. We are among the leaders in India with this historical brand. The penetration of water heating is very low, and there is obviously a lot of opportunity to grow in the future. I think being.
Closer to where we sell in a moment where also countries are considering to be more protective versus really accepting goods coming from outside the market. Is something that we had to consider. On top, we had a very good opportunity to take over this plant, which is pretty new. I think the price has been announced by the sellers. You can also check how much we paid for the price. I think it is a win-win for us, again, thinking to the long term of India, which will be one of the winning countries in the next decades. We want to continue to be there and improve our position of leadership.
Sorry, Maurizio, I know it's low, but how big is India today? 1%-2% of your sales, even 1%? Just a curiosity.
As you know, we do not like to give this number because there are not many listed companies. We always say which are the top countries. I mean, we are leader, as we said there, among the leaders. We are well positioned.
Okay. Not bad. Gracias.
The next question is from Vivek Midha of Citi.
Hi, everyone. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. I have two, but they are related, so I will ask them together. The first is just really a clarification around the guidance, as been touched on on the call. The implied fourth quarter is slower on organic growth than what you have delivered in the third quarter. You have seen a gradually improving trend as the quarters have gone on.
I appreciate that the comparable is a bit different in the fourth quarter, but should we take that as a view based on the comparables, or is there anything in particular that you would highlight on the fourth quarter growth? Second related question, curious to see how did demand progress as the quarter progressed? There have been various developments in your markets over the third quarter through the summer, for example. How did the demand and your growth change as that went on? Thank you.
Yeah. On the first one, I mean, you're right. Obviously, the comparability is different. Q4 last year, we saw a better performance versus Q1, Q2, and Q3 of 2024. Remember, as we said, the markets are weak. I mean, we are doing much better than market, and this is something that you have to keep in consideration, particularly on heating.
I think on the second question, I mean, I'm not sure I was clear on your question, so maybe if you want to repeat because there was a mix of deadlines and no clarity. Can you repeat, please?
Understood. Understood. And apologies for that. My question was just to understand how did the demand progress as the quarter progressed through, from July all the way to August and September? Did you see any notable differences between the months in the quarter? Did you see any improvements in September? I just have an eye on, for example, there being developments in France and so on. Did you see any changes in your markets as the quarter went on? Thank you.
Now I'm clear. Sorry, I didn't get it. Obviously, first of all, there is seasonality in heating, as you know. The heating markets are stronger after summer.
There is a little bit in September and then going up in Q4, which is always our biggest quarter. I think in terms of water heating, obviously, the seasonality is less pronounced. Every country will have its own peculiarity, and it is a little bit difficult to give you one month in, one month yes or not. For example, in the U.S., when they announced the tariff, the market was doing very well because there was an anticipation of sales because people knew that the tariffs were coming, and then there was a slowdown. We look at the market overall in a year-ending trend and obviously checking the months and the quarter. I have to say, if you ask France, for example, it is still a bit problematic. I mean, it is not very clear. They just announced new incentives for heating, but we have to see yet the benefits.
I think that the markets, which are historically suffering, are still suffering, and there were not big changes in the last couple of months.
Understood. Thank you very much.
The next question is a follow-up from Davide Rimini of Intesa Sanpaolo.
Yes. A very short follow-up. You mentioned the performance of the services and parts. I was wondering whether in terms of strategic objective, there is any focus in raising the share of service and parts within the group.
Yeah. I mean, service and parts are very important for us. We said in the past that they are margin creative to the group. We are really focusing on improving our position there. I think it is something that maybe we do not disclose a lot of data, but in general, the penetration of service contract is not at 100% of new installations.
There is opportunity to grow there. Obviously, in terms of our focus, particularly in countries like Switzerland or Denmark, when we have a direct service level, Germany with Elco is where we will continue to invest in the future.
I think also regional differences, right, or opportunities in the way you can improve the share of the service and parts within the group.
I think it is different, obviously, between heating and water heating if we have direct or indirect services. Something very important that maybe we did not emphasize recently is that we have a lot of connected machines that are helping us to improve the service that we are giving to our technicians, but to the end consumers as well because we can anticipate possible issues leveraging artificial intelligence.
I think by the end of this year, we could have 700,000 or 800,000 machines directly connected, and we can do, I do not know, software updates and maintenance, as you probably are used to have through Apple with the iPhone. We are doing the same way in the background for our machines, both in heating and water heating. I think this is a very important value for both technicians, but also for consumers.
Right. Thank you.
To you.
Gentlemen, there are no more questions registered at this time. I will turn the call back to you for any closing remarks.
Thank you all for joining our third-quarter call. The IR team remains available. Yeah. We have additional comments. Yes.
Yeah. I would like to provide feedback to Michele Baldelli. Apologies. I misunderstood your question. The other revenues, as you might have seen into the reclassified income statement, include.
The reconciliation of the Russian subsidiary. Participation.
Yes. Thank you, Riccardo, for answering all these questions. Thank you all for joining again. For any follow-up questions, the IR team remains available. Have a great day. Bye.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining the conferences. Now, you may disconnect your telephones. Thank you.