Good afternoon. This is the CloudScout conference operator. Welcome and thank you for joining the Cementir 2025 Fiscal Results Conference call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Should anyone need assistance during the conference call, they may signal an operator by pressing star and zero on their telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Marco Maria Bianconi, Head of M&A and Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Welcome, everybody, to Cementir first half 2025 results. I'm here with Francesco Caltagirone, our Chairman and Chief Executive.
Good afternoon.
Who would be happy to take your question at the end of my short presentation deck, which has been distributed? I will immediately go to page number two of the presentation, key takeaways on the first half of 2025 results. The first point is that they are in line with management expectations, with overall cement sales volumes stable, albeit accelerating in Q2, as far as cement and aggregates are concerned. Slightly higher revenues and lower EBITDA compared to the first half of last year, mainly due to negative currency impact and non-recurring charges. EBITDA improvement in the Nordic & Baltic region was offset by a reduction in all other regions and a EUR 7 million negative exchange rate effect. Two non-recurring events affected healthier operating performance. The first was a fire in the alternative fuels feeding system at the Grand-Longe in Belgium.
The second one, some technical issues during the restart of the second production line in Egypt and the postponement of some cement shipments. As far as the 2025 guidance, all targets are confirmed, excluding non-recurring charges, and despite a very uncertain commercial and geopolitical backdrop. Moving to page three with the main first half results highlights, revenue reached EUR 796.7 million, - 1.9% year-over-year. Non-GAAP revenues were up 0.5% year-over-year to EUR 807.1 million. There was a higher revenue in Nordic & Baltic, in Turkey and Malaysia, with some FX headwinds in both Turkey and Egypt, and lower revenue in all the other regions. Cement volumes were broadly stable, thanks to growth in Turkey, Nordic & Baltic, and Malaysia, and the general decline in the other regions.
RMC volumes were up 1.5%, driven by the positive performance of Turkey, Norway, and Belgium, while declined in Denmark and Sweden, whereas aggregate volumes were up by 4.8%. EBITDA reached EUR 173.5 million, down 9.9% year-over-year. Non-GAAP EBITDA was EUR 171.5 million, down 5.7%. Lower EBITDA was due mainly to negative exchange rate of EUR 7 million and non-recurring charges. Non-GAAP EBITDA margin reached 21.2%, from 22.6% in the first half of 2024. EBIT was down 18.5% to EUR 102 million. Non-GAAP EBIT was down 12.5% to EUR 105 million. Financial result was EUR 2.7 million, down from the EUR 22.1 million recorded in the first half of last year, which was due to a one-off lower net FX income. Group net profit was down 24.2% to EUR 73.5 million. Non-GAAP group net profit was down 20.4% to EUR 81.4 million.
Net cash reached EUR 144 million, an improvement of EUR 88.6 million year-on-year, including EUR 43.5 million dividends by the parent company, EUR 6 million dividends to minorities, and equity investments in Egypt of EUR 30 million. Turning the page to number five, Nordic & Baltic, accounting for roughly 50% of our group business. Here, Denmark is the most important country. Gray domestic cement volumes were slightly down versus the first half of last year, with a more marked decline for white domestic cement, with a still weak residential sector. Exports were up 7%, mainly due to higher deliveries in Norway and Iceland. Ready-mixed volumes were down 4%, whereas aggregate volumes were up 16%, with demand remaining strong.
EBITDA was up 5.2% year-over-year, mainly due to the positive contribution of cement, some savings in purchasing costs, fuel, and electricity consumption. In Norway, ready-mixed sales volumes were up 10% due to favorable weather conditions and the startup of some major projects. There were signs of a slight market recovery, although overcapacity and price competition impacted the results. EBITDA improved thanks to higher volumes, and the Norwegian krona in the period depreciated by 1.5% versus EUR. In Sweden, ready-mixed sales volumes were down moderately, while aggregate volumes were down around 4% due to the lack of new infrastructure projects and some excess production capacity. EBITDA was up from last year, and the Swedish krona revaluated by 3% versus the EUR average. Turning the page to number five, Belgium and France accounting for some 27% of group share of group EBITDA.
Domestic cement volumes in this region declined by around 8% in the first half due to persistently weak demand. Exports also fell by around 7%, even though they showed an improvement over Q1 2025 due to the slowdown in construction activity, mainly in northern France, and a temporary closure of a railway line. Ready-mixed volumes were up 2%, driven by the continuation of major projects and despite harsh weather conditions in January. Aggregate volumes were broadly flat from last year. EBITDA was down mainly due to the cement segment penalized by lower sales volumes, higher electricity costs, and non-recurring charges due to the fire in the alternative fuels feeding system at the Ground-glass. Turning the page to number six, Turkey accounting for 12% of our group EBITDA. From April 2022, you know that Turkey is considered hyperinflationary, so we're just looking at the Non-GAAP figures.
Domestic cement volumes were up by 5%, with a strong rebound in Q2 despite ongoing macroeconomic challenges. Cement and clinker exports were up 2% despite the export ban to Israel, which is effective since the Q2 of last year. Ready-mixed volumes were up 2%, supported by two new plants, and aggregate volumes were up by 19%. Revenue was up 5%, thanks to higher volumes and prices across all segments despite the Turkish Lira devaluation. EBITDA was down 25% due to rising costs, particularly personnel expenses, mainly driven by seasonal inflation-related wage dynamics, which led to a retroactive salary adjustment from the beginning of the year. Kars plant sale is in progress, with closing expected by year-end. There was, in the period, around 20% Turkish Lira devaluation versus the EUR average. Turning to page seven, North America, accounting for around 7% of group EBITDA.
White cement volumes were down around 3%, with some improvement in the Q2. The residential market remains under pressure due to high mortgage rates amid persistent inflation. Texas saw the sharpest decline, impacted by adverse weather and supply disruptions. The York region experienced a milder decline, mainly due to colder than average winter temperatures, while California and Florida posted moderate sales growth. EBITDA was down only slightly thanks to good cost control. In the period, the U.S. dollar devalued by an average of 1% versus the EUR. Turning to page eight, Asia Pacific accounting for 4% of group EBITDA. Revenue in China was down by 11.5% due to lower selling prices in a context of stagnant demand and delayed effects from government stimulus measures. EBITDA was down 31.9%, affected by weaker pricing despite only a slight decrease in volumes. The renminbi revalued by 1.6% versus the EUR average.
In Malaysia, on the contrary, revenue increased by 1.1%, driven by higher sales volumes, mainly exports. Total volumes were up 10%, mainly due to larger clinker shipments to Australia. Domestic volume, on the contrary, though marginal in volume, declined by 10%, also due to orders brought forward to December 2024 and some delays in major projects. EBITDA declined by 18.1% due to lower export prices reflecting a different product and destination mix, despite some cost savings and higher volumes. In the period, the Malaysian ringgit revalued by 6.5% versus the EUR average. The last region on page nine, Egypt, accounting for 3% of group EBITDA. Revenue declined by 11%, mainly due to the 23% depreciation of the Egyptian pound, despite a 9% increase in local currency revenue.
White cement volumes declined by around 2%, impacted by a weak Q2, mainly due to lower exports linked to the postponement of shipments for technical reasons. The domestic market was soft in early 2025 but showed signs of recovery in June, with still high inflation, currency devaluation, rising energy costs, and some pressure on manufacturing. EBITDA was down mainly due to higher operating costs, only partially offset by a more favorable product mix and higher selling prices. Non-recurring costs related to the reactivation of a second production line, idle for nine years, caused production disruption at the El Arish plant. In the period, the Egyptian pound devalued by around 23% versus the EUR average. Just a few highlights about the non-financial aspects. Our decarbonization commitment continues. CO2 emissions per tonne of gray cement were down 3% to 616 kg.
CO2 emissions per tonne of white cement were slightly higher to 862 kgs. We were recognized by Sustainalytics as an ESG industry-top-rated company for the second consecutive year. We achieved an A score in climate change by CDP and A- score in CDP water for the third consecutive year. In March 2025, Cementir Holding N.V. and Air Liquide officially signed a EUR 220 million grant agreement with the European Innovation Fund for the Axion Carbon Capture and Storage project in Denmark. The project will enable the avoidance of 1.5 million tons of CO2 emissions per year once fully operational. We were included also in the Europe's Climate Leaders 2025 ranking by the Financial Times and Statista. Decarb, the first low-carbon white cement brand, was launched in Malaysia with a 12% lower CO2 emissions versus Aalborg White Portland white cement.
We were also included in the World's Most Sustainable Company 2025 ranking compiled by Time and Statista, and we were recognized for the second time as a supplier engagement leader by CDP. That leads me to the last slide, number 11, regarding our guidance for 2025, which is confirmed with a revenue of EUR 1.75 billion for the year, an EBITDA of around EUR 415 million, a net cash position of around EUR 410 million, and a CapEx of EUR 98 million. This guidance refers to like-for-like ongoing operations, Non-GAAP, and excluding any non-recurring items. With this, I end my presentation, and I hand over to Mr. Caltagirone, who is happy to take your question. Thank you very much.
Excuse me, this is the CloudScout conference operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and two. Please pick up the receiver when asking questions. Anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. The first question is from Matteo Bonizzoni of Kepler Cheuvreux . Please go ahead, sir.
Thank you and good evening. I have two questions. The first one is on the guidance confirmation. You said that it excludes extraordinary items. I believe, but I want maybe a confirmation that the two, let's say, one-off events which penalized the first half, which were the fire in Belgium and the technical issues to the second line in Egypt, in the first half, they were not excluded from the EBITDA, so they were not quantified also. I wonder, are they considered exceptional items or not? In relation to this question, can you maybe broadly quantify the impact of these two one-off events to your H1 results and what is your confidence to basically fix both of them in the second half? Last question is on the squeeze of margin which we had in Turkey.
You explained clearly that it is due to a sharp labor cost increase, which was not yet, let's say, or not fully offset in terms of pricing, cement pricing, output pricing. In this case, what is your view on the potential ability to recover this margin squeeze in the second half of the year? Thanks.
Thank you for the question. Just commenting on the results of the first half, we believe that they appear worse than they really are for several reasons that I will explain or even also to answer your questions. I am referring to the Non-GAAP result where, compared to last year, we are nearly EUR 10 million in delay with the revenues that are slightly up and quantities that are slightly better. Regarding the inconveniences that we face in the first half in the two plants in Belgium and in Egypt, the magnitude of these two inconveniences in the first half is around EUR 6 million.
There is also, just to give a full view, this sharp increase in the labor costs in Turkey that happened at the end of March with three inconveniences we think are transitory in nature and we hope to reduce the ground lost during the second half of the year. For us, beside the incremental cost of the labor cost, the other two are considered one-off. I must say that even including this one-off in the first half in our budget, I am aware that you don't know the budget divided quarter-by-quarter, we are slightly ahead of the budget and not below.
This means that so far, we think that there are also slight possibilities even to have a better result at the end of the year because we think that especially in Egypt, where, as it normally happens when you restart a line after a long period, there have been some quality issues that forced us to postpone some supply and shipment. We think that what we have lost in the first two quarters can be recovered in the second half. We already started, so the problem has been solved. For this reason, we think that we can recover the gap here that is around EUR 5 million. In Belgium, the issue on the feeding of alternative fuels that took fire, we think that the issue has been solved.
We experienced the higher cost beside the cost of the damage because we were forced to switch from alternative fuel to coal and also to CO2 because coal produces higher CO2. We were forced to buy some CO2. This problem will be solved probably during the month of August. I think that we are, even because of the figures in terms of revenue, so in terms of quantity, addressed to fulfill the guidance on EBITDA and also on the cash flow.
Okay. Thanks, sir.
The next question is from Emanuele Gallazzi of EQUITA. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, everybody. Two questions from my side. The first one is a clarification on the one-off. Do you expect almost zero one-off from Belgium and Egypt in the second half, right? The second one is, beside the, let's say, the one-off event in France, some of your competitors are flagging an overall weak market driven by weak residential and also lower infrastructure spending. Can you just discuss about your view on the Belgium and France market and what do you expect in the coming quarters?
Yes, starting from your last question. In our perimeter, we still see some soft spot for two different reasons. One, in China, where we are, let me say, below our budget because of price environment and not quantity. In Belgium, France, especially the Paris area, is, let me say, - 20% in terms of quantity, but the prices are, let me say, stable. This is mainly because, let's say, the end of the Olympics and some hangover in terms of, let me say, activity, yes. Your first question was, let me say, no, we don't expect major... No, we don't expect in the second half to have major, probably $1 million, but let's say this is something that we are going to fix and we are, let me say, probably starting from next month to switch back to alternative fuels from coal, I would say.
Yeah, thank you.
The next question is from Alessandro Tortora of Mediobanca. Please go ahead.
Yes, good afternoon to everybody. I have two questions, okay? The first one relates to the Turkish market. You basically communicated the disposal of the Kars plant. Can you elaborate a little bit more on the strategy around Turkey for you in the medium- term if we can assume that probably there are some, how can I say, strategic plans from you and maybe you can assess also the disposal of some other plants in your Turkish portfolio? This is the first question. Thanks.
Yes. About Turkey, starting also from the cost side, we were aware that there should have, let me say, been an increase in the salary cost on an alignment. Usually, this is smoother and easier. We had, let me say, in the first half, the inflation that pays that would have been twice the valuation. In EUR terms, we suffered a sharp increase at the end of March. I can say that, as you can imagine, you cannot adjust the day after. We are, let me say, in the path of recovering with the price increase that is regarding all Turkey to recover this extra cost. What we should see in the second half is that this recovery, in terms of profitability, should kick in and already started to kick in.
Regarding our strategy, I can say that the Kars plant is one of the smallest in all of our perimeter, quite old. You have also to consider that, I don't know if you are aware, but the 2nd of July this year, the Turkish government approved the ETS scheme. The ETS scheme is more or less the same that we have in Europe. There will be two years of testing phase, 2026 and 2027, and then they will start in 2028. This is just to say because this is also following the same strategy that we had in Italy. Kars is a plant that is from late 1970s. It has nearly 50 years. It has around 400,000 tons of clinker capacity. To upgrade that plant will cost a meaningful amount of money in a part of Turkey where we see limited development in the market.
We found a local competitor that has already a plant close to our plant in Capital. For sure, he can build synergies, can also offer the price that in terms of multiple on EBITDA that I see, I think it's quite interesting. We are just waiting the clearance from the antitrust that should arrive by September. This means that, let's say, for sure in Turkey, the most interesting part is the western part for Izmir and Trakya plant. Elazig plant is interesting mainly because now it's starting the rebuilding of Syria and might be interested for the next few years by, let me say, increase in consumption. Let's say Kars sales is just an opportunistic, unsolicited, let me say, step because somebody came to us and said that if we were, let me say, interested in selling the asset.
I believe that the value that we might extract with the sales is higher than the value, more than the value the free cash flow that we can extract from the sale is higher than the free cash flow projected 10, 15 years ahead. If we also consider the upgrade that the plant needs, especially if the ETS scheme starts, it will allow and will ask all the producers to decline the emission for the next two decades for sure.
Okay. Thanks. Sorry, the second question is just a clarification on the guidance. If we look back at the first half's results, you had this headwind from the effects quantified in around $7 million EBITDA. The question is, considering the second half, and probably we will have this persistent headwind also considering the U.S. dollar, but also looking at the Turkish Lira, compared, let's say, to your initial guidance, does this mean that you have a kind of change or basically you are confident that, let's say, the operating results are able to more than offset this effects headwind? Just to understand how it works for you, this negative contribution from effects. Thanks.
Let's say that in Turkey, for Turkey, we expect this year to have a better result compared to last year in EUR terms.
Okay.
There is just a mismatch of cost that happened with a retroactive that is not so common from the first, let me say, of January. This happened in full in the Q2. We expect, let's say, that if the situation continues as it is today with no major threat from the economical or political side, we should, in Turkey, have a better result than last year.
Okay. Thanks.
The next question is from Bruno Permutti of Intesa Sanpaolo. Please go ahead.
Yes. Good evening, everyone. I was wondering about the volumes in the Q2 and in the rest of the year. We saw an increase probably in volumes in the Q2, which was frankly quite surprising from my point of view. I was wondering if it is something that is mainly related to the phasing of the deliveries or if you are seeing at the group level an improvement of the volume situation looking into the second half. The second question relates to Denmark. We didn't see in the first half an improvement in the volumes, if I have well understood. I know that there is an important infrastructure project there. If you can update us on that and on the ramp-up of the project. If I may, two other questions, one related to a possible insurance restore.
Are you insured in Belgium and do you expect to have an insurance restore and in case when? The last question, you mentioned the reconstruction of Syria. I was wondering if it is still a hope or if you are seeing something going on more materially.
Regarding the volumes, let's say we expect in the second half to have, let me say, a sort of continuation of this increase in the volume. We have a lack of volumes, some volumes, especially in Denmark, as you are asking, because of this project, because it's slowing its pace. Also, the volumes of the first half are impacting negatively for, let me say, the Egyptian situation. For this reason, I believe that in the second half, we should continue at this pace, let me say, to recover compared to last year in terms of volume. The only issue about volume is just the Paris area because all the other places, including China, because in China, as I said, the issue is the price, but a slight decline in the price, not a huge decline in the price.
We expect also, because it's nearly two and a half years that the volumes are declining in that area, that sooner or later, we should start to see some pickup volumes in Northern France, Belgium. I think that about Fermen, I also already answered.
Yeah.
The third.
What was the insurance, the possible insurance restore? On Syria.
I think we are insured on damages and business continuity. We expect to have some restoration during this year. Let's say that we expect because also there are other, let me say, inconveniences that happened even in 2023 and 2024. Let's say that we might expect to have a restoration of around EUR 20 million. If it happened, it might arrive directly in the EBITDA. We don't think that they are one-off because they just cover costs sustained or extra costs like what is happening now in Belgium for various reasons or business continuity like it happened in Egypt. With the insurance, sometimes things take longer. We are actively talking with the counterparts. I expect, by the second half, to have the settlement of this. Syria is picking up. It's not anymore in blacklist. It depends.
The start will be very slow because everything is destroyed 1 km after the border of Turkey. They have to start to rebuild and also clean from mines because there are thousands of mines on the road. We don't know exactly, but we are aware, especially from the Turkish Association, that as I said, it will last years. It will be millions of tons of supply of cement that can arrive only from Turkey because part or most of the industrial production in Syria has been destroyed in the war of the last 20 years. I believe we believe that for the first three to five years, most of the cement that Syria will need will arrive from Turkey.
Thank you.
The next question is from Pierre-Yves Gauthier from Alpha Value. Please go ahead.
Yes. Good afternoon. Can you walk us through the forex impact? It's quite intriguing that at a revenue level, they seem to be pretty limited with the dollar, which has been down 10% since the beginning of this year. It implies that you have a very strong pricing capability. This would be my inference, but clearly, it's probably much more complex than that. Could you be maybe helpful and try to explain to us what has happened from a forex standpoint at a revenue level? You express the cost at an EBITDA level, but I was just wondering whether we could get some degree of granularity on this dollar impact or non-impact, potentially, over the first half.
Yes, I'll take this question. Thank you. Actually, at revenue level, at a constant exchange rate, our revenue would have been EUR 842.1 million, so 4.8% higher than the same period of last year. There was absolutely an impact on revenue in translation because it's not transaction, it's translation. At the EBITDA level, we explained it was EUR 7 million, and of which clearly there was a big portion in Turkey for the reason that the Chairman explained before. It was mainly due to, again, translation and the valuation of the Turkish Lira. Absolutely, it was an impact on both top line and EBITDA. The main two currencies involved are Turkey for the relative side and Egypt, which are the two currencies that devalued the most against the EUR in the period. These are the two major impacts.
We can not provide the breakdown exactly of the EBITDA impact, but I think the Chairman also gave you a hint with regards to the personnel costs in Turkey, and these are the main. There are obviously a few others, but just to give you an idea, some color about the impact.
Regarding the U.S. dollar, we are mainly naturally aided because the cost that we bear for fuel and spare parts, so the need of dollars is balanced with, let me say, the sales that we have for export from the various countries. Let's say we are more or less neutral with the dollar if it's going up or down.
Right. I would agree with that, obviously, but I would have thought that the dollar would have had a global impact on your pricing. I understand perfectly what you said about the Turkish and the Egyptian situations. That was very clear in your communiqué. The question is really a broader one. In a weaker dollar context, effectively, you do not seem to suffer from dollar lower prices expressed in a EUR pean currency. In effect, you're reporting currency.
Yes, this is because we are in white cement mainly, except for Turkey in our export. Let's say that the pricing of white cement is different from gray cement. Even now, the tariff that will be applied everywhere, as you can imagine, for us, everything that will be shipped to the U.S. will have a charge of 10%. What is produced in the United States will not be charged. We are the only producer in dollars for white cement. Also, our limited part of the perimeter is only 10% of our revenues that is denominated in dollars because we have a limited perimeter of our business in the USA.
It shows resilience at the end of the day. That's great news. Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question is from Egor Sonin from Alpha Value. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for picking up my question. I wanted to ask you about your FX risk. You mentioned a $7 million negative FX impact on EBITDA in the first half of 2025. Could you please clarify whether this figure is presented before or after hedging? In other words, is this the gross effect of currency movement or the net result after applying any gains or losses from hedging instruments? Additionally, could you please elaborate whether the hedging strategy has changed recently due to the persistent currency pressure in Egypt and Turkey? Thank you.
I think that the main, I mean, usually, let me say, every result even in the past included these figures. I mean, this year in the first half, as I said, is mainly coming from Turkey, where it's impossible with a 50% rate to make any kind of hedging, that we have this, let me say, inflation that grows at double pace of devaluation. Usually, these, if I, let me say, balance in EUR terms, they are neutral. As it happened now, that in 1Q , 2Q , there is, let me say, a mismatch. This can cause, let me say, an extra headwind. We are just signaling this, but this is usually considered in our perimeter and in the past year. Just now to help you to clarify why there is, let me say, some delays.
We are expecting, as I said, that the price action in the second half in Turkey will help us to recover the personal cost increase and also these, let me say, headwinds that is, let me say, pumping up some costs related.
Okay, thank you.
The next question is from Andrea Belloli from Banca Akros. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, everybody. Thank you for taking my question. I'm just curious about the United States because you mentioned a 3% slowdown in volumes. If I look at the EBITDA margin, it improved by around 20 basis points. You mentioned some cost control, and I was just curious to have some more color on this. Thank you.
Thank you for the question. First of all, probably our performance in the U.S. has bucked the trend a bit because looking at the competitors, people are reporting relatively weak figures. We clearly have not as much leverage to the infrastructure, data center, and Fed-funded spending as some of our competitors because, as you know, we operate only white cement. White cement is a peculiar niche, which is a specific feature of Cementir. We are the first producer and only producer of white cement in the United States with two plants. We have a mixed model. The model is mixed of manufacturing and distribution. Out of the around 600,000 tons of cement we distribute and sell annually in the United States and North America, about half are produced and the other half are imported.
I think there was a combination of better purchasing for cement, some cost control, and logistic savings, which more than offset some of the negative operating leverage. We were able to actually resist the negative pressure of slightly declining volumes, with a very good result. I think the fact that we are the incumbent and the largest producer in the country plays a part. I think that overall, we are very happy with the operating results of our subsidiary because we're clearly on top of the cost structure of the company and we're able to deliver good numbers for H1.
Perfect. Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question is from Alessandro Tortora of Mediobanca. Please go ahead.
Yes. Yes. I saw the, let's say, two follow-up cases on my side. The first one is, you can come back to your comment on the insurance reimbursement you were expecting, but also the timing of the settlement. If I understood well, you mentioned the $20 million as a potential, let's say, insurance reimbursement. This would be related not only, let's say, to the one-off cost you had this year, but also to some other events occurred in the past. Just to understand if, let's say, this positive outcome and the settlement is something you consider therefore recurring and included into the guidance. This is the first question. Thanks.
The insurance is not considered recurring. We expect, let me say, to have a deal during the second half. In terms of cash flow, because one thing is that you reach the deal and you can, let me say, register or not to the balance sheet. In the book, you can book in the balance sheet. The other is that when you receive the money, that probably sometimes you are aware with the insurance with this kind of amount, it will take some time. I think that I have a positive mood on, let me say, trying to reach an agreement, let's say, around this amount that is mainly linked to this year with some, let me say, scale of, let me say, the previous two years.
It's not included in our view, and this should, let me say, help to close the gap and even to recover more than the gap that we have, let me say, so far produced in terms of EBITDA.
Okay. Okay. Understood. Thanks. Sorry, the last, it's just a curiosity on your, let's say, net profit line. If I look at, let's say, the result attributable to non-controlling interest, should we assume, also considering all the deal you made in the past years, should we assume that basically this is a line that is going to go basically to zero?
Let's say not to zero, but close to zero because now our minorities, which are mainly, let me say, Malaysia, U.S.A., and in Egypt, they remain just 3%. Most of our, let me say, minorities came from Egypt. It's around $1 million, $2 million, $3 million, let's say. This is, I cannot say, but it's very small.
Okay. Probably also the fact that we saw, let's say, such a low number in this quarter was due to, let's say, all the events you mentioned that penalized Egypt also.
Exactly.
Okay. Grazie.
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Thank you.
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