Good afternoon. This is the CarelSco conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Carel Industries First Quarter 2025 Results Conference Call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Should anyone need assistance during the conference call, they may signal an operator by pressing star and zero on their telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Francesco Nalini, CEO of Carel Industries. Please go ahead, sir.
Thanks. Good afternoon, and thanks for joining our call for the presentation of Q1 2025 results. I'm starting, as usual, from page three with the main highlights of this period. As expected, in this quarter, we saw the continuation of the sequential positive top-line performance improvements we've been having since Q3 last year. Actually, we finally returned to top-line growth, even if a small one for the time being. In fact, revenues at EUR 147.4 million are 0.7% up from the same period of 2024, and definitely could have been higher not for our supply chain capacity that had been streamlined during 2024. As already mentioned, it took us a few weeks to adjust capacity to a fast-improving order backlog in terms of materials and labor.
Now, this adjustment has mostly been done, so we are in line with the order pipeline that remains, in any case, very short and so provides very little visibility. We've been seeing a sustained positive momentum in data centers, especially in the US, as well as a strong recovery in refrigeration in Europe. Adjusted EBITDA profitability in this quarter has increased to 18.6%, not considering some not recurring elements related mainly to our ongoing reorganization, while reported EBITDA profitability was 18.1% of sales. We had an improvement mainly due to a significant positive result at the cost of goods sold level because of a positive trend on raw material costs and because of the increasing weight of digital services that have an expansionary effect on gross profitability. We continue to prioritize investment in innovation, and also in this quarter, we remain well above 5% of sales.
We had, in the quarter, a further reduction of our net debt that was reduced to EUR 43.9 million from EUR 50.2 million at the end of 2024, even if the first quarter is usually seasonally soft in terms of cash generation. Net debt over the last 12 months EBITDA is now 0.4, but if we exclude the EUR 30.8 million related to the IFRS 16 accounting principle, net debt is slightly more than EUR 11 million, so basically negligible, and confirming our very strong balance sheet position in this moment. Let's go now to page four with some additional figures. Revenues at EUR 147.4 million grew by 0.7% from the EUR 146.4 million of the same period last year. We had growth in all regions except for Asia-Pacific, where, as expected, we had a contingent effect related to the specific timing of some projects.
Kiona grew in the period by approximately 15%, in line with the expectations for the quarter, and as expected, we already saw further acceleration in April. Adjusted EBITDA for some non-recurring costs related to our organizational change was EUR 27.4 million, up 2.1% from the EUR 26.8 million of last year, or 18.6% of sales, up from 18.3% of the first quarter 2024. We had the positive contribution from raw material costs that are now back to the usual deflationary trend, but also the growing contribution of digital services, in particular Kiona, that had approximately 25% EBITDA margin in the period. We confirmed the strong commitment to innovation with R&D expenses at around 5.6% of sales as per our target.
Net profit at EUR 10.1 million is down 38.7% from the EUR 16.5 million of the first quarter last year due to the lack of some accounting extraordinary items that were present last year related to the valuations of options on minority shares in acquired companies, as we will see in a few moments. Tax rate was 21.3%, with an improvement over the 22.3% of Q1 last year. Capex were EUR 4.4 million, down 15.3% from the EUR 5.4 million of last year. We confirmed the expectation of an approximate 5% of sales target for the full year, considering that there's the usual seasonality where Capex level is lower at the beginning of the year. Moving now to page five, we'll see some more details on the top line. Looking at the different regions, we can see that all of them grew in this quarter except Asia-Pacific.
EMEA finally went back to a slight growth of approximately 1% year on year, mainly due to a strong recovery in the refrigeration sector. In general, stock levels are, for the most part, normalized, so we're more closely tracking end demand. It's mainly here in EMEA that production capacity has seen a bottleneck in Q1 since it took a few weeks to adjust it to the new order levels. In Asia-Pacific, we had a soft quarter as expected, with a decline of 15.5% in local currency due to the timing of some significant projects and also economic weakness in Australia. We do expect a significant improvement already in Q2, also thanks to the ramp-up of some new projects with new products we have been designing in China for the local market, especially inverters.
North America grew by 10.4% in local currency, with another strong quarter, especially if we consider the tough comparison with last year. The solid performance is supported by the continued positive momentum in data centers, but we have very good additional development prospects related to inverters and food retail. Latin America grew by 2.9% in local currency, so still growing but decelerating due to the challenging economic scenario in the region. To the right, we can have a look at the sector breakdown. HVAC results were basically in line with Q1 last year, as well as sequentially with Q4. We do expect an improvement in the rest of the year thanks to Europe, where stock levels are mainly normalized, and also end demand should improve. As mentioned, we expect an improvement in Asia-Pacific as well.
Refrigeration grew by 3.3% in local currency in the period, mainly thanks to the strong rebound in Europe that had a double-digit growth in the sector after a long period of weak investment in the region. In this sector, likewise, we expect an improvement in the rest of the year, thanks also to the full restoration of our production capacity. I now leave Nicola to comment the items below EBITDA on page six.
The slide number six details the group result from EBITDA to the net profit. The increase in D&A cost is related to the relevant CapEx activities performed last year. The Forex evaluation on the put and call option of Kiona, expressed in NOK, had a negative impact in Q1 2025 for EUR 2.1 million. It was a gain of EUR 2.8 million in Q1 2024. Q1 2024 was also impacted by the capital gain referred on a difference between the estimated fair value of the actual amount of the put or call option of CFM. The tax rate of the period was 21.3%, in improvement with the same period of last year. The group net profit at the end of March 2025 was equal to EUR 10.1 million compared to EUR 16.5 million of the same period of 2024. Slide number seven shows the net financial position evolution of the first quarter 2025.
The flow from operation was strong and equal to EUR 21.3 million. In the first quarter 2025, net working capital increased mainly due to a seasonal effect. It should be noted that this value is improving compared to the same period of last year of EUR 6 million. Taking out the accounting effect of IFRS 16, the net financial position is equal to EUR 13.1 million. I leave Francesco to go on with the presentation.
Thanks, Nicola. On page eight for the closing remarks, as expected, the beginning of 2025 shows significant signs of improvement on the demand side, particularly in the refrigeration sector in Europe, with a strong order intake that has been accelerating during the quarter and that took a few weeks to fully materialize into sales due to the necessity to adjust the production capacity adjustment that now has been done. Profitability at 18.6% adjusted remains solid into Q1 2025, with the declining raw material costs and the development of digital services offsetting increased investments in innovation. Likewise, net debt continues to decline, supported by strong cash generation, even if the first quarter is not typically the strongest in this respect. As far as the tariffs are concerned, also in this occasion, we can leverage on our very resilient global supply chain footprint.
We manufacture in the U.S. the vast majority of what we sell in the country, and in any case, we plan to absorb almost entirely the impact of the current tariffs through supply chain adjustments and price revisions. Of course, we cannot foresee at the moment the impact of a possible significant worsening of the macro scenario, but for the time being in the U.S., demand remains very strong without any signs of slowdown. In general, of course, the macro environment remains very uncertain. However, we see positive signs of recovery in EMEA, especially in refrigeration. At the same time, the very positive momentum in data centers continues, especially in the U.S. The Asia-Pacific region presents a more mixed outlook. However, we expect a significant improvement throughout the year.
To conclude, even if we have to remember that visibility remains very limited, based on the results achieved in the first quarter, a strong order book and positive market developments, we expect to close the second quarter of 2025 with revenue growth in the high single-digit to low double-digit range over the same quarter of 2024. Thank you very much for your attention. We're now more than happy to answer your questions.
This is the Carel Industries Conference operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and two. Please pick up the receiver when asking questions. Anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. The first question is from Christian Hinderaker of Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Yes, good afternoon and thanks for the opportunity to ask questions. I want to start on the order developments. The last results you'd called out a pickup in orders in the first few months of 2025. Sounds like that momentum has continued, and you've talked about the strength in the recovery in refrigeration. Maybe if you could add any further color on that in terms of the different subsegments or product areas that might be seeing strength, as well as if there's any sort of intra-country distinction in demand, that would be the first one.
Okay, thanks, Christian, for the question. Let's say that talking about Europe, as you said, the main development is the most accelerated development is in refrigeration after, let's say, some time of slow investment. Now the market is picking up again. They have a quite long backlog to recover, also in light of the F-gas regulation, which is the reason why we do expect, let's say, further accelerations also in the medium term, not just in the short term. We are very well positioned to get, let's say, this additional demand coming due to the fact that in the next few years, the market has to adjust for the F-gas regulation. We are well positioned on a number of fronts on the technical and commercial side.
As far as HVAC, and this, by the way, sorry, this is across the board in Europe, so there is no particular, let's say, there is no specific difference between individual countries. As far as HVAC is concerned, let's say that the rebound, as expected, is more gradual, also due to the nature of the market. We have been seeing a significant improvement in data centers in Europe over last year. If you remember, last year, data centers in Europe were a little bit more subdued compared to the rest of the world. Now it's picking up, so it's improving. Let's say that commercial is also gradually improving. Let's say we do expect the demand in general to pick up in Europe in the coming quarters, and we will trade the demand because the stock levels are now normalized.
As far as heat pumps are concerned, demand there is still, let's say, there are no clear signs of improvement yet. Again, stock levels are pretty much normalized, but the end market has still not clearly started its rebound in general. There are some specific cases where we're seeing improvements, but in general, it's still not picking up again. There are growing expectations that possibly the market could, let's say, restart in the second part of the year 2025, but of course, it's not certain yet. In America, demand is very, very good, very solid. It's, as you've seen, very positive already, also considering the comps, but it's going to improve. Data centers is very, very strong, and there's no sign of deceleration whatsoever.
We have growing prospects coming from the refrigeration market, where we have very interesting project developments for the short to medium term and also related to the introduction of inverter technology. The prospects are very, very good in that region. Asia-Pacific, as expected, was softer. That was entirely due to the timing of some projects, as well as economic weakness, especially in Australia. We do expect an improvement as the timing of the projects becomes more favorable. Of course, in China especially, we have the uncertainty related to the tariff effect that we still do not know. In general, we expect an improvement coming again from data centers and also from refrigeration.
Thank you, Francesco. Maybe I can follow up on the heat pump demand comments. Appreciate the color there. I guess, can you remind us, you said in the press release that that was actually growing for you in Q1 of last year. Obviously, you're supplying into the OEMs here. If we look at the actual sell-in data, at least for Sweden and Germany in Q1, looks to show an improvement year on year in terms of demand. I just wonder if there's any consideration there on the country levels for Carel and, yeah, interested in what the sort of comp consideration was as well.
Yeah, so basically, yeah, you're correct. Let's say that in Q1 last year, we still had, let's say, orders that we had to fulfill that we don't have, of course, in Q1 this year. Q1 this year is more or less in line or slightly above, let's say, in heat pumps, slightly above Q2, Q3, Q4 last year. Let's say there's a slight improvement over Q2, Q3, Q4, while we're down over Q1 because, again, there were some deliveries that were still happening in Q1 last year. This improvement is actually mainly concentrated in Germany. You're right. It's mainly there. Again, it's too early, in my opinion, to say that a rebound of the market is approaching. I could be wrong, and I hope to be wrong, of course, but we do not have clear signs. We do have some small signs of recovery, mainly concentrated in Germany.
Thank you. Maybe just a short follow-up on that. In terms of your country, should we think of your alignment in the heat pump segment as sort of reflective of volumes in the industry overall, or are you particularly indexed to, say, Germany or certain countries?
I would say that our demand in heat pumps more or less reflects general demand in Europe because we have quite widespread customers, and they, in turn, export all over Europe. Again, there are some, let's say, growing expectations, mainly related to the investment plan that the German government announced, that from, let's say, Q3, Q4 this year, that could, let's say, a good recovery could start to happen. There are growing expectations for this. Probably the slight improvement we are seeing over Q2, Q3, Q4 last year is a reflection of a slight demand improvement, but let's say not as vigorous or as robust as we would like. We hope that the expectations for an improvement towards the end of the year are correct. Could be sooner. Just honestly, we don't know. We cannot say for sure.
There is some slight improvement for sure, mainly concentrated in Germany, but of course, the production base in Germany for heat pumps, it goes all over Europe. I cannot say for sure that this is related to German demand or it is more general European demand.
Understood. Very helpful. Thank you.
The next question is from Nicola Biondo of Kepler. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. I have three questions, please. The first one is on your guidance for Q2. I was wondering if the mentioned high single-digit or double-digit growth is, let's say, tracking the underlying market, or if it is also benefiting from the shift that you have had from Q1 into Q2 as you were not ready to fulfill all the orders you received. The second question is on the gross margin improvement you have reported in Q1. You mentioned mix, but also lower cost of material. Should we expect going forward downward adjustments in prices, clearly net of any effect from tariffs? Last question, just a clarification on commercial HVAC and heat pumps. Can we say that with Q2, finally, the comparison base on these two, let's say, segments has become a fair one? Thank you.
Hi, Nicola. Thanks for the questions. Okay, so concerning the first question, let's say that the fact that our capacity was not yet totally ready in Q1 was reflected in slightly longer delivery lead times. In general, I don't think that the demand we are seeing in Q2 is to a significant extent related to the postponement from Q1 because, in turn, that postponement from Q1 led to postponement to Q3. I wouldn't, for sure, some of those orders could have been in Q1, but in general, I don't expect that the demand improvement we are seeing is related to production shifts to a significant extent. I jumped to the third question, then I leave Nicola for the second. Concerning heat pumps, I believe you made absolutely a good point.
Yes, from Q2 on, the comparison should be quite fair compared to last year in heat pumps because Q1 was the last quarter last year when we had some, let's say, deliveries coming out of the heat pump ramp-up. That's why, I mean, already in Q1 this year, we saw some improvement over Q2, Q3, Q4. Absolutely, you are right about that. Now I leave it.
Sorry, Francesco. Is this true also for commercial HVAC?
Yes, I would say yes. Absolutely. Definitely yes because in Q1 last year, we had some backlog recovery still to be fulfilled, also commercial HVAC, especially in the U.S. Let's say that from Q2, more or less, everything should be normalized. Yes.
Thank you. With reference to the gross margin evolution during the first quarter of 2025, it has benefited from the growth of digital service like Kiona and the cost of material that were reduced from the suppliers. For this reason, we can say that it's something back to the normal of these industries that it is typical to have a reduction in cost of materials. For a part of these, it passed through to the customers typically. You were mentioning about the tariffs. We are for sure monitoring very strictly the evolution of this impact in the profit and loss of the company, but we are estimating not a very relevant number in our profit and loss, this amount. We are working in order to do a complete pass-through to the customers about this eventual effect.
Thank you.
The next question is from Alessandro Tortora of Mediobanca. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thanks. Hi, good afternoon, Francesco. I have three questions. Okay. The first one, Francesco, if you can elaborate a little bit more on the APAC performance. If I understood well, there were some delays on some specific projects, but can we assume that this normalization in the project deliveries you mentioned before is going to bring basically APAC to a positive organic growth, or for the macro context you mentioned before, this is something, let's say, not realistic? This is the first question. Thanks.
Ciao, Alessandro. Yes, for sure, we do expect to revert pretty quickly to growth in Asia-Pacific. On an individual quarter, the timing of some specific projects can have a relevant effect. This will be recovered. Likewise, let's say there's weakness, especially in the Australian economy, which is an important market for us in Asia-Pacific, but that is also expected to improve during the year. Definitely, we are confident that the Asia-Pacific region will revert to growth. Absolutely.
Okay. Okay. Thanks. Sorry to come back to the question made before on raw materials, but raw materials, let's say, on sales were extremely low, probably the lowest number I have in mind for you. Can you give us some ideas of if there are some specific actions you did? I do not know. You renegotiated prices with your suppliers in a better way than we saw in the past, or this is something structural? Maybe you have in the market, you exploit the higher availability of electronic materials. Just to understand, because clearly, this is a bottom level, right, but this is extremely low. If you deem that this level is, how can I say, kind of structural for you, and therefore this would help the company not to restore its historical profitability. Thanks.
Yes, there was a relevant part related to the negotiation with the suppliers. It was a real negotiation with them. The demand was pretty much low in the market, and we were able to benefit about this. Please remember even the effect from the digital service, and even you can imagine even Kiona that in this period is performing with a very strong growth in terms of sales and even profitability. We have a double effect about this. With reference to the second effect, for sure, we deem that it is something structural because it is a different investment that we did two years ago with this specific goal to have different service to offer to our customers.
With reference to the supplier, as I was saying before, it is something structural in the trend, something that is typical in the trend of these industries that when you are able to gain some benefit from the supplier, a part of this usually is invested with the customers.
Yeah. It is fair to say that so far you get basically the cost benefit, but you did not start yet to recognize, let's say, the annual price adjustment, right?
There was already a part, for sure, lessened that was the benefit that we had from the supplier.
Okay. Okay. Grazie. Grazie, Nicola.
I would add on this.
Yeah. No, I would add on this that basically we do expect more or less an average of 1% price reduction every year, which is basically the partial pass-through effect that Nicola was mentioning. Normally, in any case, the pass-through is just a part of the raw material cost reduction. We have to consider, but this is still unclear, the positive price effect related to the tariffs in the U.S. This is, of course, the situation is continuously evolving, so it's still not very clear, but in that case, most probably there will be some not negligible price adjustments upwards.
Okay. Okay. Thanks. And Francesco, sorry, if we come back, let's say, to your guidance on, let's say, Q2, and therefore we come back, let's say, to the normal accrual speed, organic accrual speed for the group, so the high single-digit or double-digit. So basically, if we consider your EBITDA margin seasonality, we should come back, let's say, to the region of 20% EBITDA margin or touch about that. Are there any specific reasons why you should come back already this year in your historical range, so between 19-20%?
No. In general, there's no reason why if growth is, let's say, high single-digit or in the high single-digit ballpark, why profitability shouldn't be in our usual range. That's, let's say, absolutely. If growth, in general, we maintain our expectation that with the growth of high single-digit, profitability should be in the 19%-20% range. Yeah, of course, we are investing for growth. Our main target is not margin expansion. We are increasing our investment in innovation. We're increasing our investment in the commercial deployment. That's why, I mean, we don't target margin expansion, but let's say, I mean, if we consider adjusted EBITDA, already in this Q1, we are at 18.6%.
Okay. Thanks. The last question is on refrigeration. Basically, refrigeration grew low single-digit in Q1, probably is going to accelerate considering the order backlog you have on your end. Is it fair to assume that considering the order available, this is a segment that, let's say, could stay in the mid to high single-digit area by year end? Considering the supportive regulation, if understood well, you reasonably expect, let's say, further acceleration in, let's say, the coming years. Is it right?
Yes, Alessandro. The visibility is very low. To provide an expectation for the full year on the market is difficult. From a qualitative standpoint, absolutely, we do expect an acceleration from this low single-digit, which is related to a number of factors. As I said, we had double-digit growth in Europe already in spite of the necessity, again, to adjust the production capacity. We had, let's say, softer results in Asia-Pacific, but as mentioned, due to purely contingent reasons. Also in North America due to very, very, very strong comparables in refrigeration in Q1 last year.
We do expect an improvement in all regions because in Europe, there will be a further acceleration that should continue for years, again, because there's the F-gas deadline approaching, and there is a backlog also related to the missed investment of the last year and a half, two years. In Asia-Pacific, things should improve in general, as I mentioned. In North America, we have pretty interesting developments for Food Retail and also Food service for the medium term. Let's say that our expectations are definitely for a return of the refrigeration market to its very positive annual growth rate that we have been experiencing, let's say, before the last few quarters. Now, to provide the guidance for the full year, precise guidance, it's a little bit difficult at this stage, but definitely, we're optimistic that this market should return to a very interesting growth rate.
Okay. Thanks, Francesco.
The next question is from Gianluca Pediconi of Momentum Alternative Investments. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, gentlemen, and thank you for taking my question. It's a quick one on North America. The 14% increase in revenues that you experienced in the first quarter, do you have the sense that it was partially inflated by any pre-buys or actual demand? Thank you very much.
Ciao, Gianluca. No.
Francesco.
I don't.
Ciao, ciao.
Ciao, ciao. Sorry. No, sorry. No, we do not think that there has been any significant effect of this kind because, let's say, we are talking about the big bulk of this growth in the first quarter was related to data center projects. I do not think that that was related to stocking up. It is mainly stuff that is produced in the U.S. and we produce in the U.S. so there was no reason to really overstock on that stuff. Customers know that. It is a data center project. Now, it does not mean that in the U.S. we expect to grow only in data centers because, as I said, there are extremely interesting prospects also in the other markets.
If we look at the big growth in Q1, it was mainly related to that, and I do not think there is reason to believe that was, let's say, overstocking because of the incoming tariffs because it is stuff that we manufacture there. Especially this kind of projects normally are not so prone to overstocking.
Thank you very much. Very clear. Thank you and congratulations. Thanks.
Thank you.
The next question is from Michele Baldelli of BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good afternoon to everybody. I have a couple of questions. The first one relates to the evolution of the top line, if you can provide a sort of granularity and color around price mix and volumes. The second one relates to personal cost as a percentage of sales because I just want to understand if the percentage on sales that in Q1 was pretty high was related to a different mix because you said that you are pushing on the services front, or is it just front-loading of the investments needed to expand your capacity to cope with the increasing orders? Thank you.
Okay. In terms of price volume mix, let's say that it's basically volume because there was some price effect, as Nicola was mentioning, but pretty limited, so downwards, of course. It's basically all volume and volume even more than prices, evidently. As I said, we do expect price increases in the U.S. but in general, we do expect a partial pass-through of the cost reduction on the prices. Let's say that all in all, the vast majority of the effect is related to volumes. As far as the personal costs are concerned, it's basically front-loading of innovation. As we anticipated, we are scaling up our innovation capacity and efforts, and this is a front-loading because, of course, we cannot have personal costs continue to grow at this rate.
This is really front-loading for some strong innovation directions that we are taking related to a number of fronts. Yes, it's front-loading, and it's mainly related to innovation. In terms of capacity, the incidence of labor on our sales is pretty limited, so it's not the biggest effect.
Thank you.
As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press star and one on your telephone. The next question is from Arturo Lopez Spagliani of Clear Value. Please go ahead.
Yes. Hi. Good afternoon. Do you hear me?
Yes.
Fantastic. I'm struggling a little bit with the positive tone of your results during the press release on this conference call and the consensus that you have out currently. When I look at the consensus, it seems that it's about EUR 60 million net income for the year. And you are actually guiding for a high single-digit, low double-digit increase or improvement in the market, which is very good and fantastic, to be honest. It seems to me that I'm missing out a little bit of something. Either you have a 50% increase expected due to backlog, or the consensus is a bit challenging. I do understand the difference in the, I would say, non-cash items of last year, but at this point, it's really difficult. If you can make it a little bit of clarity, I would really, really appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Sorry, you're talking about the consensus on net profit for the full year? Did I understand correctly?
Yes. Correct. Correct. Yes. If I look at your consensus on Bloomberg, basically, it is EUR 120 million in PTDA from five analysts and EUR 60 million net income, which obviously looks a little bit challenging with the results of the first quarter. Your tone of voice is very positive, and it is really, really fantastic. We think you are a very solid company, but at the same time, I am really struggling to understand how you are going to make the consensus or the consensus is completely wrong, one or the other. Your tone is very good, so perhaps you can enlighten me a little bit on that. That would be great.
Okay. Does that inform you what is happening below the PTDA? In terms of.
Could you move to the phone, please? Because there is somebody too.
Okay. Thank you. With reference to the financial charges, we believe that there should be something pretty much in line with last year's evolution, maybe even some improvements if the interest rate will go down. It is difficult to predict for sure the Forex impact since nobody has the knowledge about what is happening. Even for us, it is very specific items related to the exchange between NOK and euros. It is something very specific. Last year, there was, as we said, the impact from the evaluation of CFM. If I compare this quarter, I am talking about the net profit, with last year's first quarter, the difference of these lines is more than EUR 8 million. I think that these two lines explain very much of what happened in this quarter compared to what was last year.
I honestly do not believe that there will be a big evolution like this, but I do not know with reference to the NOK for the following years. In terms of tax rates, that is another important line of this part of the profit and loss. We see a sort of stability with what was the result of this quarter and even what was the result of last year. We do not expect big changes on these lines. I hope to have answered to your question.
Okay. Maybe I have a follow-up then later. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Thank you.
Once again, if you wish to ask a question, please press star and one on your telephone. Mr. Nalini, there are no more questions registered at this time.
Thank you. Thank you, everybody, for listening and for your questions. Looking forward to speaking with you again for the presentation of the first half 2025 results. Good afternoon.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining. The conference is now over. You may disconnect your telephones. Thank you.