Thank you.
Good afternoon and welcome everybody to our call for the presentation of the first half 2025 results. As usual, I'm starting right away by going to the main highlights on page three. I'm very pleased to report that we.
Had a significant acceleration in the second quarter of 2025.
Organic revenue growth net of the foreign exchange impact was 11.3% in the period, at the high end of the.
We shared with our Q1 results.
Also, profitability had a robust improvement, with reported EBITDA margin in the period at 28% of sales. In the first six months, revenues were EUR 306.2 million with an organic growth of 5.7% or 5% at current exchange rates. Strong acceleration in Q2 was driven by a sharp recovery in Asia Pacific and EMEA, with organic growth of 16% and 7% respectively in the period. On top of this, we continue to have outstanding growth in North America, over 26% organic in the period after an already very strong Q1 and over pretty tough comparables since growth in 2024 was.
Already very strong in the region.
The primary growth driver in Q2 has been HVAC with 15% organic growth achieved through double-digit growth in data centers, commercial, and also residential, with a visible improvement in the heat pump vertical. Again, in the first six months, adjusted EBITDA profitability was 19.3% of sales or 19% reported. We benefit from operating leverage, but we also continue to have a positive trend in raw material procurement costs. Kiona is also becoming a bigger and bigger contributor to margin expansion, with an EBITDA margin that further accelerated in Q2 and was above 25% in the six months. This good profitability allows us to easily continue to maintain a strong investment level in innovation, with R&D at our target of above 5% of sales.
We had a pretty strong cash generation, with an operating cash flow in the first six months double the one of the first six months of 2020, covering dividend distribution and all the investments we made so far this year and still having a debt decreasing to EUR 41.1 million. If we exclude EUR 30 million related to IFRS 16, the debt is approximately EUR 11 million, so basically negligible with respect to.
Last 12 months EBITDA.
Moving to page 4, we can provide some additional figures on the highlights. In the first six months, revenue was up 5% to EUR 306.2 million from the EUR 291.5 million of last year, or 5.7% if we exclude the negative impact especially.
Of the U.S. dollar devaluation with respect.
To the euro, we had a strong acceleration in all regions apart from South America and also Kiona accelerated with a growth rate in excess of 20% in Q2. EBITDA, adjusted for a number of non-recurring items especially related to the ongoing reorganization, was up 9.9% to EUR 59.1 million from the EUR 53.8 million of last year, or 19.3% of sales from the 18.4% of 2024. This improvement is due to operating leverage, the ongoing positive trend in raw material cost, and increasing contribution from Kiona that had a profitability above 25%. As far as the U.S. dollar is concerned, the negative impact on the top line is for the most part neutralized.
At the EBITDA level.
Thanks to the good natural hedging we always strive to maintain, we can then easily sustain our target R&D expenses in excess of 5% of sales. Net profit in the sixth month was EUR 26.5 million, down 4.8% from the EUR 27.8 million of last year due to the absence of some accounting extraordinary items that were present in 2024 and also to the negative foreign exchange effect. Tax rate has been 23.2%, basically stable compared to the 22.9% of the first.
Six months last year.
Finally, CapEx were EUR 8.9 million, down 32% from the EUR 13 million of last year due to the seasonality of projects. In particular, in the first six months of last year we were investing in our new R&D laboratory in the quarter and in the factory expansion in Poland. At year end, we expect to maintain our usual target of 5% CapEx on sales. I now move on page 5 for more comments on the market. To the left, we can see the breakdown of sales by regions. EMEA accelerated to a 3.9% growth net of the foreign exchange in the six months thanks to a 7% organic growth in the second quarter. The acceleration was particularly evident in HVAC Commercial and HVAC Residential, namely heat pumps, where the signs of improvement are becoming more visible.
On the other hand, we added acceleration in refrigeration due in Eastern Europe to a very strong comparison in spite of a sequential improvement in Q2 and in Western Europe to a contingent timing effect related to the postponement of some relevant projects that are in any case expected to be recovered in the second part of the year. Asia Pacific also had a strong acceleration after a weak Q1 that, as anticipated in the presentation of Q1 results, was mainly due to the timing of specific projects. The 17% organic growth in the quarter reverses the trend of the first period. Actually, we had in this quarter excellent results in China, mainly in data centers and in refrigeration, but also in India, while Southern Asia Pacific is gradually improving.
North America continues to deliver excellent growth performances with a further acceleration to 19% organic in the six months in spite of very high comparables. The main growth drivers are data centers especially, but also HVAC. Commercial and refrigeration is also improving. South America is the only region with negative growth by 5.3% organic in the six months basically due to the pretty.
Strong economic uncertainty in Brazil.
To the right we have the breakdown by markets. HVAC had an excellent performance in Q2, landing at 6.9% growth net of the foreign exchange in the six months. Excellent performance that was basically across the board. In the second quarter we had double-digit growth in data centers, in commercial, and also in heat pumps where recovery.
Is getting more visible, especially in Germany.
Refrigeration, on the other hand, had mixed results in the quarter with solid growth in North America and Asia Pacific, but a slight decline in EMEA due to temporary contingent factors. As I mentioned, we anticipate a recovery.
In the coming quarters.
I now leave it to Nicola to describe the items below the EBITDA on page six.
Thank you, Francesco. The slide number six details the group result from the EBITDA to the net profit. The increase in D&A cost is related to the relevant CapEx activities performed last year. The financial charges improved compared to last year due to the reduction of interest rates. The forex trend was impacted by the devaluation of the U.S. dollar against the Euro, partially offset by the revaluation of the put and call option of Kiona Express in NOK. It should be noted that Q1 2024 was also impacted by the capital gain related to the difference between the estimated fair value and the actual amount of the put and call option of CFM for EUR 3.4 million. The tax rate of the period was 23.2% in line with the same period of last year.
The group net profit at the end of June 2025 was equal to EUR 26.5 million compared to EUR 27.8 million of the same period of 2024. It should be noted that the net profit of the second quarter of 2025 exceeded by 45% the net result of the same period of 2024. Slide number seven shows the net financial position evolution of the first half of 2025. The cash generated by the operating activities was almost double the prior year value. In June 2025, the group paid dividend for EUR 18.6 million. Taking out the accounting effect of IFRS 16, the net financial position at the end of the period is equal to EUR 11 million. I leave Francesco to go on with the presentation.
Thank you, Nicola.
I'm now on page 8 for the closing remarks. The second quarter of 2025 has delivered very good results in terms of growth and profitability. This is the outcome of the group capacity for execution, collecting the results of our long-standing strategy of resiliency, diversification, and technology innovation. The improvement in profitability in particular benefited from operating leverage and raw material costs, but also from the expansionary effect of digital services, which is becoming more and more relevant. Our diversified supply chain footprint helped to mitigate the effect of trade restrictions and to achieve good natural hedging vis-à-vis.
Vis-à-vis the U.S. Dollar devaluation.
This robust performance translated into solid cash generation, also thanks to the disciplined ongoing rationalization of working capital. As far as the recent developments in international tariffs are concerned, we are obviously continuously monitoring the situation and using our supply chain flexibility to rapidly identify and execute the countermeasures. We manufacture in the U.S. the vast majority of what we.
Sell in the country, thanks to our two factories there.
The tariff impact is mainly on components. We localize or optimize the supply chain for all the categories of components where this is feasible, and for what remains, typically for components whose supply chain is.
Not present in the U.S., we act on pricing.
Of course, the macro scenario remains very uncertain and volatile. We will continue to leverage on our.
Diversification in terms of geographies, markets, products, and supply chain footprint.
Nonetheless, our visibility is very short. Taking all this into account, we expect to close the third quarter of 2025 with organic revenue growth in the high single digit to low double digit % range compared to the third quarter of.
2024 at constant exchange rates.
Thank you so much for your attention. We are now at your disposal for any questions you might have.
This is the Course Core Conference Operator. We will now begin the question announcement session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on your telephone to remove yourself from the question queue. Please pick up the receiver when asking questions. Anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. We will pause for a moment while participants join the queue. The first question is from Nicolas Torer from Kepler. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon all and first of all, congratulations on this set of results. I have a few questions. The first one is about your guidance for Q3. Basically, you're assuming same growth you were assuming for Q2, but maybe you are also assuming, let's say, more, let's say, sparky activity on refrigeration. By difference, maybe a deceleration on HVAC. Can you shed some light on the assumption backing your high single, low double digit estimates for Q3? The second question is on HVAC, excellent performance in Q2. Could you please rank basically by performance the main, the most relevant areas, including maybe spending a few words on data centers and the industrial HVAC ex data centers? Third question is about cost of goods sold again at below 40% of revenues. Should we expect any deterioration going forward, in particular via lower prices?
Very last one on working capital, you have had good improvement in Q2. If you can elaborate a bit on the drivers and on possible sustainability of current levels through to year end. Thank you.
Okay, Nicola, thanks for the questions. As far as Q3 is concerned.
The background of our guidance is of course the very low visibility that we have since as you know, we have a few weeks of order portfolio and in this period we have also August, where especially in Europe, some companies could decide to shut down or in any.
Case, it's a very volatile month.
Considering that this is, let's say, the backdrop of our guidance, for sure we do expect a recovery in refrigeration for the second part of the year.
On the other end, there is for.
Sure, visible significant improvement in heat pumps. It's still too early to say that it's generalized or how durable it is.
We don't know. It could be durable or it could not.
Unfortunately it's too early to say. For this reason, we let's say.
The uncertainty related especially to.
August, the low visibility, we don't know for sure how durable the recovery heat pump is. For this reason we provide this guidance.
We can say that there might be upside.
There could be upside, yes, of course, but we cannot say because it's again for the reasons I mentioned, but in principle, yes, for sure. As far as HVAC.
As concerned, in percentage terms the best.
Performing vertical was heat pumps, starting from a very low base, of course, but in percentage terms that was the best performing one. Second was data centers, which is going extremely, extremely well. In absolute value, it's also very relevant in terms of growth; it's the biggest contributor to growth, and commercial is improving very well. Double digits. As you know, it's not so easy to distinguish for us between commercial and data centers, because sometimes what goes in commercial ends up in data centers. This is a proxy, but let's say data centers are the biggest contributor in absolute terms to growth, and second in terms of percentage, third commercial.
The rest of industrial is in the single-digit range.
Industrial X data centers are in the single digit range. Probably a number of factors are weighing on this in the short term, like uncertainty on the tariffs, on the economic environment, on the macro and so on. Fortunately, that is, it's in any case growing, of course, and the other verticals are performing very well. For the other questions, I leave it to Nicola.
Thank you, Francesco. With reference to the cost of goods sold, the trend of the second half was similar to what happened in the first quarter of 2025. There are some structural improvements that we had, like the most relevant value of the Kiona and the services on the business. This is something structural. We had good result on the negotiation from the suppliers. We do not foresee relevant changes in the next quarters. With reference to the net working capital, it was a very good result, the one that we had in the first half of the year. They say that account receivables are performing well. In terms of accounts payable, it was a good result. We work even to enlarge the payment condition to some suppliers. There is the management of the inventory for the year end result. Our target is in general to be around 20%.
I'm talking about the trade working capital on the sales. You have to take consideration that for us it could be tactical, even to have sometimes a higher level. Since due to our strongest financial position, our aim is always to guarantee to the customer a very good service level. This is our aim to be around 20%, but sometimes we decide to increase the level of inventory, just in order to guarantee service level to the customer.
Thank you. Can you tell us which was the level of H1? Because I see the net working capital was at around 13%. The trade working capital was. I do not know if it is reported in the presentation.
No earnings reported. One second.
Was something around the 21%, 22%.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you very much.
We foresee a further reduction at the year end. Basically.
The next question is from Christian Hinderaker from Goldman Sachs. Go ahead.
Yes, good afternoon everyone. Thanks very much for the time. I wanted to start on the project timing point in refrigeration in Europe. In Q1 there were some timing delays. I think in Asia Pacific, I just wonder if there's similar drivers here or if it's just a case of construction scheduling. It sounds like you caught up the Asia Pacific projects, but any added color there would be helpful.
Yeah.
Hi Christian, thanks for the question. In refrigeration in Europe, what affected.
In the second quarter, the postponement from a couple of big supermarket chains was the postponement of installations. As far as we know, this is just due to their deployment schedule. There's the only evidence that we have, something that should be recovered. It's pure timing, timing effect, since we're talking about big chains. That was visible in the quarter, but it should be totally contingent.
Thank you, Francesco. Maybe just thinking then about the North American market. Obviously you've called out strength in data centers. I wonder what effect, if any, your revenues have seen in terms of the R-454B refrigerant shortages, how that might be impacting installations at the OEM side. More broadly, it sounds like given your localized manufacturing, this might not be the case. I just wonder if there's any indication of pre buy ahead of tariffs going on.
Yeah.
As far as the 454B refrigerant shortage, our customers, our OEM customers do.
Do not report any issues in their manufacturing because the issue mainly affected refurbishment or replenishment of the refrigerant on field. It did not affect the manufacturing from our customers, so did not affect our sales. Basically, it's mainly an aftermarket issue which is not so relevant to us. On the other hand, some OEMs are reporting that they are planning to switch to other refrigerants for R-32. Whenever there are projects to change the refrigerant, it's a new project, so it's positive for us. Let's say that whenever there are issues that could lead to technological changes in the medium term, it's a positive effect for us. In the short term, we do not have any effect because it's mainly an aftermarket problem.
As far as the pre buy in North America, we don't have any evidence of that in the region, also because sales have been constantly accelerating since April 2nd. April 2nd, we're talking mainly again of data centers, projects of commercial HVAC, and everything is produced in the U.S. Our customers know that. We do not have any reason to believe that there was a significant anticipation of purchasing effect for our sales in America.
Understood. Maybe finally, obviously the balance sheet's now in good shape. I guess maybe ambitions to do some more M&A. Kiona has been well received and obviously executing well. In terms of margin, how should we think about the M&A priorities? Is the U.S. still an area of particular focus or has that changed at all?
Yeah, the U.S. is definitely still a.
Priority, plus Europe, because also in Europe we believe that there could be very interesting opportunities. The priorities in this moment are again in geography, it's U.S. and Europe. In terms of domain, it's basically competitors. Acceleration of the market share, smaller competitors, plus complementary technologies that could be useful to complete our offering in some specific vertical niches, especially in the industrial space, since the industrial space is one of the most attractive for us. Please consider that data centers is considered industrial by us. Industrial space, including data centers, there are some complementary technologies that could be very interesting to complete our package, our offering, our value proposition in some specific verticals. That is also something we are looking at.
Thank you very much.
Next question is from Alessandro Cecchini of EQUITA. Please go ahead.
Hello everybody and thank you for taking my questions. The first one, actually it's on your potential profitability that you could have in the third quarter. Assuming maybe your top level of the guidance for the third quarter, it's meaning probably that heat pumps still going well, you should have more or less slightly lower sales, sequential sales. Do you expect to have similar margins to the second quarter, or are there some elements to account in the model? This is my first question. The second question is about your performance in the commercial HVAC in Europe. If you can add some additional color. Finally, Kiona is performing very, very well, plus 20%. I think that I ask you if you expect this 20% to, roughly speaking, to continue for the year. Thank you.
Okay, I'll start from the two latter questions, Alessandro.
I'll leave it to Nicola for the profitability.
In terms of commercial HVAC.
We are seeing in Europe, but also in America, that the market is accelerating. We expected, if you remember, we expected the gradual improvement of the commercial market after the end of the destocking, and with, let's say, also the normalization of interest rates and so on.
That's now happening.
The acceleration is basically due to the fact that stock levels are now normalized. There are probably also some backlogs in terms of projects that were pretty sluggish in the last few quarters. The commercial sector is pretty broad for us. It includes, in terms of end market, commercial buildings, but also public buildings, hospitals, and so on.
In general, what we see is basically a strong rebound in chillers, but also.
In ventilation systems, in air and the units, both technologies, which are the two technologies mainly used for commercial buildings in general, are growing pretty fast. In the U.S. it's mainly ventilation. Ventilation is growing very, very well. In America also, we have, let's say.
The tailwind, which is more medium term.
It's definitely tailwind of the inverterization of HVAC. We are definitely going on with the project to roll out the inverter technology in HVAC in the U.S., and commercial is definitely a big part of this.
As far as Kiona is.
Yes, basically we are executing the strategy. They are delivering the results that we were expecting. We were expecting an acceleration of sales growth, but also profitability. That is what is happening. We have all the reasons to expect that they continue to deliver on the plan, which is consistent acceleration of growth and profitability. We are now starting the execution of the international expansion. Everything is basically after 2024, where sales growth was a little bit lower than expected. We're now executing the plan as expected, basically. We're pretty satisfied now. Leave it to Nicola for the profitability.
Yes, with reference to the Q3, when we talk about the profitability of a quarter, it is always sometimes volatile to define which will be the final result of the quarter. Anyway, we do not see trend different to what happened in Q2, and we expect something that will be inertia with Q2.
Okay, thank you.
The next question is from Natasha Brilliant from UBS. Please go ahead.
Hello, good afternoon and thank you for taking my questions. I've got three. The first one, just coming back on refrigeration and you talked about some delays and changes in deployment schedules of your customers. What's driving that? Is it macro uncertainty or is it just something specific to those customers? Do you expect that demand to come back in Q3 or could it be pushed to Q4 and beyond? The second question is, back in Q1 you mentioned that demand has come back so strongly that you couldn't fulfill all of the orders. Some orders went into Q2 outside, I guess, at the refrigeration piece. Has there been any shift in orders from Q2 into Q3 or is it more normalized now in terms of balancing that supply and demand? My last question is on heat pumps. Another strong quarter in Q2.
Any more color, any particular markets, any more data that you can share with us would be helpful, thank you.
Okay, thanks, Natasha, for the questions. As far as refrigeration is concerned, we.
Are seeing this postponement related to some very specific customers.
It's their delivery schedule. From what we.
The information we have is that this will restart pretty soon. It will start starting from Q3 and then go on in Q4. It's something that will be recovered. We're talking about some big supermarket change. Some movements of this kind could be visible in the individual quarter, but it doesn't change significantly our expectation for the refrigeration market in Europe. It's something very, very specific that could happen in a quarter in a specific market.
As far as.
Let's say, the bottlenecks that we had in the supply chain.
In Q1, as we said in Q1.
We didn't have any significant shifts of production to Q2. Also in basically, the bottlenecks have been normalized already in Q2, so we don't have any particular movements from Q2 to Q3, which means, and this is also the reason why in Q3 we expect basically a continuation of similar trends from Q2.
Finally, in terms of the heat pumps.
We are seeing some pretty visible recovery, especially concentrated in the German market. In Germany, also, some market data suggested that there is going to be a recovery. For example, the subsidy grants are faster improving there. It's not only in Germany. We're seeing several customers that are starting to have more.
Activity.
It's still too early in our opinion to consider it durable and generalized, because on the other end there are some customers which are still down pretty much, and also some countries which are, let's say, less buoyant in terms of demand compared to others. It's visibly improving so far. We have reasons to believe that it will continue, but on the other hand we cannot be sure. It's too early to say that it's generalized, the recovery of the demand, but so far it's there.
Perfect. Thank you very much.
The next question is from Tortora Alessandro of Mediobanca. Please go ahead.
Yes. Hi, good afternoon to everybody. Some questions, let's say three, four. Okay, but they are fast. The first one, Francesco, relates to the data center business. Considering the concentration of more data center sales in North America, can you give us an idea of how different is, for instance, the route to market to Europe and clearly subject to the demand, but the increasing investments Europe is targeting? What would be and what are currently the major differences among the two markets for you in order to be as relevant as in the U.S. also in Europe? This is the first question. Thanks.
Okay. Charles Sandro.
Thanks.
Charles.
Thanks for the question.
So.
The biggest difference there are.
Two main differences, I would say, between our data center business in the U.S. and Europe.
The first one is that in the.
U.S. we have big investments in liquid cooling. The liquid cooling technology is by far the biggest contributor to growth. That for us, for example, means a lot of sales of sensors. We have Senva in the U.S. that makes sensors and is very strong in liquid cooling, and that is growing a lot in Europe. On the other hand, liquid cooling is definitely less present than in the U.S. as of now.
The second big difference is the level of investment.
In the U.S. they are investing like crazy, much, much, much more than Europe. Europe is improving, but it's still way behind the U.S. in terms of investment. That's why the U.S. are growing so much compared to Europe. I would say these are the two biggest differences. In the U.S., as you know, we are setting up, as we speak, a competence center which is devoted to exploring, let's say, how to evolve the technology for the fast-evolving data center cooling landscape, but also for exploring new paths to market, especially in terms of going directly to the end users, which is a strategy we want to pursue in the U.S.. This is a strategy that we started pursuing in China.
By the way, data center business, liquid cooling included, is growing pretty well also in China, not only in the U.S. because also in China a lot of investment.
In China we already started a.
few years back, to address directly the end users, and that has been successful. We are starting to do the same in the U.S., and we are also starting to do that in Europe. The main priority is the U.S., considering the level of technology and the level of investment that we are seeing.
Okay, thanks for just going this answer. The second question relates also again to data centers. I recently read the news on AWS and also, let's say, hyperscalers starting to, how can I say, invest in developing some solution, maybe much more, let's say, on the part. On the other side, in terms of design, the question is are you increasingly targeting to approach upper scale, for instance in the U.S.? Second question, as you mentioned before on liquid cooling, do you see significant differences if you're going to sell, let's say, a package of solutions to liquid cooling versus, let's say, the traditional technology?
Okay. In terms of the hyperscalers, yes.
The hyperscalers are increasingly specifying the kind of technology they want in terms of cooling. They're becoming more, let's say, more active in this respect.
Which is why, as you correctly say.
We definitely are targeting to approach them directly in order to be part of this specification when they specify the solution.
In any case, they source the components.
They buy from the usual vendors with a solution which is basically specified and validated by them. They're not manufacturing systems.
For example.
Microsoft introduced a new liquid cooling system that sent the heat directly into air.
That was designed by Microsoft.
The providers of the technology are, let's say, the usual providers. Plus, if you send heat into the air, then you need in any case to have a more powerful ventilation system, which is something that we also do. In any case, it's a system more devoted to retrofit of existing data centers because it's less efficient. It can be suited mainly for retrofit in existing data centers. Having said that, just to go back to your question, yes, we definitely are addressing hyperscalers to be part of their specification because they are going to continue sourcing from the usual vendors where our market share, as you know, is pretty high and increasing.
In the U.S., we always said in terms of the value we sell with the different technologies, we always said that it's pretty difficult to say because there's a huge variety of architectures that can be used for liquid cooling. For ventilation in it's very, very diverse. It's very difficult for us to provide an estimation also because we provide many components, from humidifiers to the controllers to the sensors. There's really, really a big, big diversity.
Let's say that for liquid cooling, the.
biggest difference compared to the other architectures is the sensor component that we have. There is a very strong sensor component. In fact, they are becoming more and more strategic for us. We are strengthening our investment in sensors in the two companies that we have, Arion and Semba, and we are developing. We have a pretty exciting roadmap of new developments in terms of sensors, including for liquid cooling. That's the biggest difference, that there's a much higher sensor content in liquid cooling from our standpoint.
Okay, thanks. The third question is on Kiona, you developed and the solution now probably is accessible in more markets, not even by Italy you mentioned in the past. Can you give us, let's say, the next top priorities in terms of country penetration for Kiona solution? Maybe, I don't know, Germany or for instance, is it possible to bring a Kiona solution at a certain point in the U.S. for instance?
Yes, definitely we are going to introduce.
Kiona in the U.S. because it very much supports, and pretty soon, by the way, because it very much supports our growth in refrigeration in food retail.
Since in the U.S. market it's very.
Important to have a cloud system for managing food retail. It's a solution which is basically mandatory. Of course, Kiona is a very, very advanced cloud solution. Even more so, we're going to bring it to the U.S. to support our growth in food retail. In Europe, the priorities are some selected countries that we identified, which are basically Germany, France, and Italy, the biggest in terms of international expansion, where we're going to set up a dedicated salesforce managed by Kiona.
Okay, thanks. The last question is on CapEx. I saw, let's say, not the relevant of the amount of CapEx in the first half, it should be roughly EUR 10 million. I remember in the past that you mentioned that by year end we could get something close to EUR 30 million. Is it still valid? Or maybe we have, let's say, slightly less this year. Thanks.
No, it's. The first half was lower than last year compared to. Due to the fact that last year there was the investment in Poland mainly. In general, the trend that we expect about the 5% could be something that we deemed it would be feasible. You know, when there are big projects, sometimes it can happen that something can switch from one quarter to the other. We believe that between EUR 27 million and EUR 30 million will be something that will be reached this year.
Okay, and just a quick check, as you mentioned before, the 23% tax rate you got in the first half, is it something you reasonably project? Okay. Also for the full year, or maybe it could be slightly less than that. Thanks.
It could be around this value or even something less than this amount.
Okay.
Yes.
Yes.
For any further questions, please press star and one on your telephone. Bernardini, there are no more questions registered at this time.
Okay, thanks everybody for your attention and for your questions. Looking forward to speaking with you again.
The presentation of the third quarter results.
Good afternoon.
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