Good afternoon, this is the Chorus Call Conference operator. Welcome. Thank you for joining the d'Amico International Shipping Second Quarter and First Half, 2023 Results Conference Call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen only mode. After the presentation, there will be a Q&A session. For operator assistance via web call, please press the headset icon on the bottom left side of your screen. For conference call assistance, please press star and zero on your telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Paolo d'Amico, Chairman and CEO. Please go ahead, sir.
Thank you. Good morning, good afternoon to everybody. Thank you for joining us on this call for our first half result and second quarter. As usual, I leave the floor to Carlos to give you the first part of the presentation. Carlos, please go ahead.
Good afternoon. Thank you, Paolo. As usual, we start with a quick glance at our fleet profile. We still control 36 vessels. However, the number of owned vessels has been increasing. This is just a photograph. As at 13th of June, we had 24 owned vessels and five bareboat chartered-in vessels, seven- time chartered-in vessels. Since then, we took delivery of two vessels on which we had exercised purchase options. The number of owned vessels has risen to 26, and the bareboat chartered-in has fallen to three vessels. We will look more closely at these remaining options later on in the presentation. Young fleet, average age of eight years, relative to an industry average of around 13 for MRs and LR1s. A large majority, Eco-design, almost 80%.
Going on to the following page, not much new to report here. The maintenance CapEx for the second half of the year is quite significant, $8.4 million, it then does fall quite a lot next year to $3.3 million. We have 10 vessels which have stopped or will be stopping for dry dock this year. That's quite a big number relative to the total number of owned and bareboat chartered-in vessels. Going on to the following page, our bank debt refinancings. We are still to draw down the refinancing of $20 million which is related to the Cielo di Londra. It will be drawn down in the coming days.
We don't have any balloons to refinance this year or next year. We do only have one facility relating to one vessel, with a balloon of $11 million to be refinanced in 2025, and then the following facilities to be refinanced towards the end of 2026 only. A good runway without having to be concerned about that. The daily bank loan repayments have been falling and will continue falling over the coming years. As we exercise the purchase options on the bareboat chartered-in vessels, we are keeping them debt-free, and that is the main reason why these daily repayments are falling. Also, on the new refinancings we have been negotiating, we're able to negotiate slightly longer repayment profiles, so also that is helping.
Going on to the following page, we show here the vessels which were already exercised. Only three years, as I mentioned, are left to be exercised. Two next year, one in March and one in September, and then another one in September 2025. As it looks, given the current outlook for the market and our current situation, I would say it's very likely that these will be exercised at the first opportunity. Going on to the following page here, instead, we show the time chartered-in options which were exercised on the left-hand side, the Adventurer, delivered to us in December last year, and the Explorer in May this year, and then the remaining options still to be exercised. They're all in the money.
We will be exercising these at a later stage. Currently, according to our calculations, it's more convenient to retain the optionality and reconsider the exercise closer to the end of the TC-in contracts. Going on to the following page, here we show our TC coverage. This hasn't increased significantly since our last update relating to the Q1 results. We did secure, actually two days ago, a new TC contract for around one year for one of our MR vessels. You will see that the coverage for Q4 has risen to now to 22%, and for 2024 to 9%, which is still very low relative to our standards.
Most likely, this coverage for Q4 and in particular for 2024, will continue rising over the coming quarters as we take advantage of opportunities that will arise in the market to cover more of our fleet at attractive rates. The coverage we do have is at a very good level. W e have now 25% of the days in the second half are covered at an average rate of $28,700 . Going on to the following page here, we provide a quick update on the trading for Q3. We have already fixed 28% of the available days in Q3, at an average rate of $28,750.
On through TC contracts, instead, we have fixed 30% through spot voyages at an average rate of $37,500. And therefore, 58% of the available vessel days for Q3 were already fixed at a blended rate of over $28,000 per day. And on the right-hand side, we show the sensitivity, how the blended TC would look if we were to earn on average $20,000, $25,000 or $30,000 on the remaining three days. So Q3 is also looking very good, slightly less strong than than Q2, potentially, although we have seen actually rates strengthen in most basins over the course of the last two weeks.
That is possibly a good sign for the rest of the quarter. Going on to the following slide. The bottom left, we show recurring results. This is what has already been fixed. Therefore, assuming we break even on the remaining three days, our profits for 2023 should be around $137 million. If, however, we are able to achieve an average rate of $25,000 on the remaining three days, our profits for the year would be around $172 million. Already the figure of $137 million is higher than our full year profits last year. Very strong market and very strong results so far for us. Going on to the following page.
Here we give a quick update on the cost trends. The daily operating costs, as we saw in our Q1 update, have been rising this year. It was widely expected that to occur. The Q2 has confirmed these trends. We do, however, expect that some of these upward pressures on costs are of a temporary nature. There is some front loading in some of our expenses related in particular to orders of spare parts, which are concentrated in the first part of the year, and therefore, we are not going to be, we are not going to incur these expenses in the second half of 2023. There are, however, also some more structural factors contributing to this increase in costs.
Of course, as all, most other sectors, we there were inflationary pressures which affected the cost of spare parts, of stores and wages. And there was also sector-specific issue for us, which is the fact that thanks to the very strong markets, our vessel values have increased sharply, and we have therefore increased the levels at which our vessels are covered to align them with the current market values. And therefore, resulting in quite a big increase in insurance premiums. That is was also one of the factors contributing to the increase in cost. To a minor extent, also currency effects played a role, and they had a slightly bigger influence on the G&A front.
Where the large majority of the increase instead is attributed to the effects of variable compensation. Which are also attributable to the very strong performance of the IS last year and this year. All these are also, let's say, temporary pressures, I would say, that would unwind, of course, in a less strong market. Going on to the following page, the ratio between the net financial position and the fleet market value has further improved since Q1, and the improvement since December is quite important. The ratio moved down from 36% to 25%. The net financial position decreased from around $410 million to around $300 million.
The cash and cash equivalents stayed approximately stable. We ended the second quarter with $113 million in cash and cash equivalents. If we look at where we were at the end of 2018, when this ratio was of 72%, the ratio between net financial position and fleet market value, this has been a very significant improvement. Going on to the following slide, the key line items of our P&L. The profit for the quarter was of around $46 million, and the profits for the first half of around $100 million. Excluding non-recurring items, $47.1 million for Q2 and $103.6 million for the first half.
What is also important to highlight here is the very strong cash generation, $143 million in EBITDA in the first half, operating cash flow of $173 million during the same period. Very strong cash generation. Finally, the last slide, a quick look at the daily results for our vessels on a TC equivalent basis. On the spot market in Q2, the average rate was of $31,700, which is lower than in Q1, $36,650, but above what we achieved in Q2 last year, which was of around $28,700. The blended result for the quarter Q2 was of $30,800, which was well above the blended result for Q2 last year of $23,400.
Thanks to the much higher level for the part of the fleet, which was covered through TC contracts. If we look at the first half, instead, the results for the average for the spot market was $34,000, and given what was covered at $27,400, the blended result is $32,400. Now I pass it over to Paolo for the market overview.
Thank you, Carlos. Let me just take my slide. Okay, on Page 20, what we have is the freight rates have surged quite a long way due to the Ukraine crisis, but values didn't follow. Followed, but not as much as the rate climbed. It's, I think, reasonable to expect more room for increased value on the ships. Also, due to a very tight supply of new ship to the market, which we will talk later on. The Russian refining export, this is something we already talked about at the previous time. They had to change, of course, losing Europe, they are selling their clean products to Africa, to Turkey, to Brazil, to the Middle East, and of course, to China and India.
This means longer routes, and so more ton-mile growing, and more ships employed, of course. The Russian oil output has been very resilient in 2022, and the supply is expected in some ways to increase. I'm saying some ways, because as we see, Russia, it looks like it's trying to implement the cut of 500,000 bbl per day, that are at least six months that we are talking about, and it looks like that they are going to do it now. The refining throughput and our demand is increasing. Of course, we did expect more growth in China is a little bit disappointing everybody, the way it's coming out of the COVID.
In some ways, this is helping our industry because the Chinese are using the capacity of the refinery not used for domestic markets, for export. We are already seeing a lot of cargos coming out of China, and as it happened in a few months earlier, we saw a lot of diesel moving east to west and going to, mostly to Europe. This, of course, is another element of increase of ton miles and better demand for ships. Due also to the market overall, the inventories are very low, but after this cut, we have to expect that these inventories are going to go down a lot. Normally, is always the starting point for a better tanker market afterwards, because you have to replenish the inventories which have been used.
So this should be good news overall for us. The middle distillates are slowly and slightly, I would say, decline as far as the crack. This to this is being substituted a lot by the gasoline crack, which have been improving a lot, especially in U.S., where you can know that. You know that it is in the middle of a driving season. So there is a stronger demand on this, when basically, the diesel demand in this moment of the year is more concentrated in Europe. Jet fuel is rising, but we are still 13% below the pre-pandemic levels, so we can expect more and more.
There are various type of bottlenecks to this, to this industry, due also to lack of crew on airlines. The various companies, they didn't fly all the planes as they did in 2019. This is going to, I hope, to be solved in the near future. We need, and we have, I would say, the support from the crude tanker market. We need because when VLs are not earning enough money out of the crude trade, the new builds, they tend to get fixed on full cargos of diesel and move them out of the Far East to Europe, to West Africa and Europe, killing so two markets for LR2, LR1s, and also MRs.
This is a very strong element to check. For the moment, it's not happening, and that is a good thing. It is a strong support for us. The changes in the refinery landscape are basically those one that we have been talking about in the previous calls. They are very much concentrated in India, in China, in rest of Asia, and Middle East. This is going of course, to be beneficial for our market in the future. US shale oil is still going on, is a little bit on a plateau position now. The good thing, that they are selling a lot of cargos down to China, so also here you have long ton-miles and a better demand.
Now, the moderation which is the most impossible to predict elements of our supply and demand, they are certainly going to be stimulated by the new indexes, which are coming in and which we are already reporting. In Europe, of course, ETS is a scheme which is working only in Europe, is affecting only either European cabotage or European trade for 50% of the trade. But certainly, you are seeing a lot, more and more, charters looking at the younger ship fleet because they are becoming aware that to trade older vessel is going to be more and more expensive, and more and more complicated
We have also to say that many terminals are not going to accept ships who are over 15 years of age. If you put this, all this in the formula, y ou have, of course, a positive for a fleet like ours, that we are eight years old on average, is a, is a very positive factor. The candidates for demolition are growing, the pool, the number of candidates. The proportion of vessels which are more than 15 and 20 years is rising , I would say, every quarter. The deliveries are very slow. I mean, even if we take into consideration, the new building order last year and this year, we have to say that this year the number has been as big as the whole year, last year.
We are talking still of very low numbers and with deliveries coming in 2025, if not 2026. It's very much ahead in time. We have a bottleneck on the new builds, and as a consequence of all this, we have a very slow fleet growth, which I keep looking at, and it's all right, is around 0.6 and 2023, 0.3 and 2024, which means basically flat. This is it. Carlos, you want to-
Thank you, Paolo. Just a last slide, with which we usually end our presentations here, to show the evolution of the NAV on a per share basis and in absolute levels. Relative to what we presented previously, we also have added here the value of the options on the vessels which are on TC-in. Some investors we talk with asked us to do so, and we thought it was a good idea. Therefore, we see here that they were worth what they were worth at the end of December and at the end of June. The NAV rose by around $100 million between the end of December and the end of June.
On a per share basis, our NAV in dollars was of $3.86, sorry, $7.14 NAV per share at the end of June. Our share price in dollars was trading at $3.86. A huge discount to NAV of 46%. One of the highest discounts for our share relative to NAV since we have been tracking this. Therefore, once again, we do believe that our shares are looking very attractively priced. Especially given the very strong outlook for the market for at least the next year and a half, hopefully even longer. I pass it over to you for the Q&A.
Excuse me, this is the Chorus Call Conference operator. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. To enter the queue for questions, please click on the Q&A icon on the left side of your screen and then press the Raise Your Hand button. Please do not mute your microphone locally, and when prompt, make sure you turn on your webcam in the pop-up window. If you're on the phone instead, please press star and one on your keypad. The first question is from Matteo Bonizzoni of Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good afternoon. I just two question as regards the cost evolution. You have flagged some inflationary factors which affected your cost in the latest quarter, particularly in the second quarter, I've seen a significant increase of the G&A costs, which I think you commented also with the variable remuneration and also other operating costs. My question is just to have maybe a, an indication for the evolution of these two cost lines, G&A costs and operating costs, for the remaining quarter of this year. Thanks.
Yes, thank you for the question, Matteo. The line was not that clear. As I mentioned, a lot of the upward pressure that we experience is temporary. We do expect that there's going to be some unwinding of this upward pressure. Nonetheless, the costs will be, especially on the direct operating costs, a lot of the elements were temporary. We do expect that the average daily value for the year will be lower than 7,800 that we are reporting in the first half. We prefer not to give specific guidance as to how much lower. The same applies to the G&A.
Here, I mean, let's say that one of the factors which did affect the costs, I mentioned, it was the variable compensation component. The bonuses that were paid out this year were higher than anticipated and accrued for last year. That had an impact. Which will not be as significant in the second half. Nonetheless, there is an increase also because we are going to be accruing for the compensation components that will be paid out next year, in the second half of this year, too. Therefore, we don't expect a marked decrease in these costs in the second half of the year. Sorry if I cannot be more precise than that, but-.
No, it's fine. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question is from Massimo Bonisoli of Equita. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question. Sorry for the background noise. Just a question on the recent rates strength, and I saw also the product margin press rebounded quite sharply. I'm curious to hear your thoughts about the very recent strength in the rates in the market. You mentioned in every single basin, at the end of the day, it looks like demand recovered, or there are maybe other issues like the restart of refineries. I would like to understand your thoughts on that. The second question, basically, still on the market.
In case the scenario of prices, especially in crude and products, will increase beyond the G7 level of prices that allows Western companies to transport crude and products. In that case, what would happen to the supply of, let's say, clean products, for Western companies? There would be an increase in supply, in your opinion, or maybe those vessels will remain in the sort of, dark or shadow fleet?
Okay.
Thank you.
Thank you, Massimo. Good questions. I'll try to take the first one, and Paolo, the second one. Yes, I mean, we have been seeing this strengthening of rates across the board, I would say. We have seen more volumes coming out of China over the last few weeks. Also the Middle East have strengthened more recently over the last few days. The Atlantic market is also looking much healthier. The Atlantic market is also benefiting, to a certain extent, from congestion in the Panama Canal. The wait times for transit on the west-east direction are up to two weeks now, so that is, of course, reducing fleet productivity.
We are seeing stronger rates both out of the U.S. Gulf and Northwest Europe. I would say that maybe the only region which is a bit weaker still is the Mediterranean, currently. If you look at the, instead, the vessel types, the Handys maybe are the vessels which are performing a bit less well now, and together with the LR1s. The other two is actually bounced back over yesterday. They started moving upward quite fast. Also the other ones are following, but they are still lagging behind a bit, the MRs, at this point in time.
We have seen that play out several times this year, and at a certain point, there is one vessel type that outperforms the other, but then the other one catches up. Vessels moved from one region to the other, reducing these super profits that you can earn during brief periods in one region and rebalancing the market. I think the positive thing is that we are seeing this upward pressure now in all basins, so I think that that is quite bodes quite well for the rest of the quarter. I don't think nothing dramatic change. Refining throughputs are increasing as expected.
They have bottomed a few months ago, and they have already risen, and they are projected to continue rising by another 1.6 million bbl per day between June and August. We were looking at the statistics, we did not report this in our presentation, on Russian oil on water. Since the sanctions came into force in February, the Russian oil on water rose very steeply between February and April, and then it started falling. This decrease in the Russian oil on water coincided with the start of the refinery maintenance season in Russia. There are still some refineries which are undergoing maintenance currently, and so it is expected that Russian output and exports will increase in the coming weeks.
That should be very supportive for the market, because as we know, as we mentioned several times, these are very long voyages which are being performed now by these vessels. If there isn't enough demand from Russia for the vessels, which are performing such trades, usually then they tend to start competing for the other non-Russian business. Which has a double negative effect, because not only there are more vessels for this other non-Russian business, but these vessels tend to be discounted by charterers. Therefore, but so they have to accept lower rates, but these lower rates tend then to be promoted by the charterers as the reference rates, lowering the market also for the other vessels. I think that as the Russian business increase, that will be very supportive for the market in the coming weeks.
Yeah, going to the second question, if I got it right, you probably want to know more about the dynamics of the price cap and I'll give you an example of what is happening today. On crude, the price of Russian Urals is going. It overtook already the $60. It is more expensive than the price cap. Which means that the Western, let's call it Western fleet, the legitimate fleet, let's go, they cannot touch it anymore. Who is going to touch it is the dark fleet. The dark fleet is more expensive than the Western fleet. Is more expensive of a lot.
What you have today, and this is the example, is India, for instance, today, is not buying any more Russian oil because it is more expensive than buying the Middle Eastern one. They went back to Saudi Arabia. Because if you add the fact that this is more than $60, plus a sanctioned ship, which is more expensive, and let's consider $60 and plus, so I don't know, $65 on one side, and the barrel, the normal barrel at $79-$80, you have what? You have a $15 difference, and it's not worth for the Indians anymore to buy Russian oil. If you add all these elements, the Russians are very much pushed to keep the oil under the price cap, because otherwise they lose volume. I have to say, who invented the price cap, invented a really, quite efficient system.
Very, very interesting point. Thank you very much.
The next question is from Daniele Alibrandi of Stifel. Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon. I have two questions. My first one is a technical one on the cash flow, but it adds for modeling. I was expecting a higher outflow from the exercise of the purchase options in Q2. Can you please remind which deliveries happened in Q2? I guess three, Freedom, Explorer, and Loyalty, but maybe I'm wrong. Can you please confirm that the expected cash flow, the expected cash out for Q3 is around $44 million, which should be Trust and Trader. This is my first one. The second one, Do you see the insurance costs to decrease anytime soon, given that asset values seems to have stabilized a little bit? Thank you.
Thanks for the questions, Daniele. Yes, here, I think that in the executive summary, we summarize here what happened with the purchase options. The High Voyager was delivered to us in January. Then we have the High Explorer, which was delivered to us in May, and the High Freedom also in May, and the High Loyalty at the end of June. And the Trust and the Trader, both in July. There were in the first half of this year, one TCE in vessel delivered to us, and five, well, not in the first half. In the first half, there were the Voyager, the Freedom and the Loyalty. Three bareboat chartered-in delivered to us, and then another two bareboat chartered-in then delivered after the end of the quarter, of the second quarter.
Okay. Okay, so do you expect the $54 cash out for Q3 is corrected to like $21, $22 each of Trust and Trader, right?
Yeah . We actually include the price. We say, you know, the High Trust and the High Trader and the High Loyalty, and we, the High Trust and the High Trader, the High Trust is $22.2 million, the High Trader is $21.6 million. Those are the two vessels that will be delivered, were delivered to us already in July.
Okay. The second one on insurance costs, if you maybe can elaborate a little bit, if you expect any decrease anytime soon, given that the asset value seems to have stabilized a bit?
No, that we have already experienced, yeah, the increase in insurance costs, and we don't expect further increases from here. If anything, if markets, let's say, asset values stay stable, as our vessels get older, maybe premiums could fall a bit, but vessel values will come down. Of course, there is a possibility the vessel values can continue moving up, and therefore put further upward pressure on the premiums. If we look at where vessel values are today, I think as Paolo mentioned, relative to where spot and TC rates are, there seems to be still scope for asset values to rise. So there is this risk, of course, then, very hard for us to make any forecasts in this respect.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question is from Yoni Van Gucht of Business Owners. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. First of all, I want to congratulate you guys on the wonderful world work in these past couple of months. I wanted to ask how difficult or expensive is it going to be to expand the useful life of a ship beyond the 15 or 20 years?
If you plan your maintenance long term, as we do, of course, the Special Survey, once you overtake the 15 year of age, becomes number one, you don't have it every five years, but you have it every two and a half years. Of course, the classification society, they will start looking in a more, let's say, severe way on your ship. The good thing of a product carrier, which is the fact that they are coated ships. Even if you, let's say, consume your coating in the life of a ship, this coating is protecting the steel from the original, from corrosion, so you easily arrive at 15 year of age with the original thickness.
This, this is a good element, but for instance, with crude tankers, we do not have, because they are not coated, and they are not protected. Say that, yes, of course, everything which it goes in age, it becomes more expensive. I repeat, if you start from day one, planning your maintenance is something manageable and is not something crazy. I can tell you something that probably we are going to face because we have charters that usually say always, "I don't want a ship under, say, 15 year old," but in certain cases, with a very well-maintained ship, they do, we start doing it. There is a little bit of a change, which is due to the fact that the supply of new ships is very limited.
I mean, I would just like to add to what Paolo mentioned, I mean, we do, we are renowned in the industry for managing our vessels at very high standards. I would say much higher than average. The statistics, the KPIs, if you look at vetting inspections, port state control, confirm this. Of course, also the preference of certain charters, like oil majors, very demanding oil majors to work with us also for very long-term business, that's confirmed that. Therefore, our vessels, they can easily trade for much longer than 15 years. Of course, the useful life of these vessels is 25. It's not 15.
As a company, we have had historically a preference to manage vessels under 15, given, you know, these preferences can change depending on the outlook for the sector, and we could easily decide to manage these vessels a bit longer than we have in the past. We have also, in the recent past, managed some of the vessels. One of our vessels, the High Priority, which we sold last year, we managed it up to 17 years of age, and it was one of the best earning vessels, actually, in our fleet, at the moment we sold it. It is possible to do quite well also with old vessels.
Okay.
Especially in very strong markets like now. Of course, things change when markets are weaker, then the charter's priorities change. Now they want to save money, so as Paolo has mentioned, they become more flexible in their criteria to chart a vessel, and they also take older vessels, which are well-maintained, also for TC business. When the markets are weak, then they only, they definitely focus on the higher quality, younger tonnage, and the owner, the older tonnage is the one which is more penalized.
It makes sense that the entire industry is, as long as everything's going well, the entire industry is going to try to expand the useful life of the ship.
Yes, we are. I t is happening, right, as we speak, because as we saw, demolitions were basically non-existent over the last few quarters, and the fleet is only getting older. Now we have 9% of the fleet, which is already more than 20 years old. Naturally, this fleet is going to get older because a lot of vessels which were ordered in the last super cycle are crossing the 15 and 20-year threshold over the coming years. Even assuming a certain level of demolitions, we expect that 14% of the fleet will have more than 20 years by the end of 2024, which is a huge number.
If the markets continue being strong, then demolitions could be even lower than we anticipate, and this proportion could of the fleets, of vessels, which have more than 20 years by the end of 2024.
Have a problem.
Yeah. Sorry. That's it for me. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question is from Molins Climent of Value Investors. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions. You mentioned you were looking towards your fetching a couple more options going forward. Once that's done, what will be the main priorities on the capital allocation front? Secondly, are you comfortable with leverage around current levels, or should we expect additional deleveraging?
Capital allocation and deleveraging. No, we have achieved, you know, in terms of deleveraging, we have achieved already a lot. Of course, it's not as important for us as it was a few quarters ago, and even more so, one and a half year ago. We do plan to still exercise the vessels on which we have purchase options, which are bareboat chartered-in those three vessels which are left. Some deleveraging will occur through these transactions. But rewarding our investors through share buybacks and cash distributions as dividends, is increasingly going to become a new priority for us going forward. We do expect that there are going to be more cash distributions going forward. Is that correct?
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's... We prefer for now not to have an explicit guidance in that respect, but, you know, what we have always been telling consistently to our investors is that after we reach certain objectives on a deleveraging front, then we are going to be distributing an increasing proportion of our profits. That still holds true.
All right. Thanks for the cover.
Thank you.
I would also want to ask about something else. You're virtually the only tanker company traded in the Italian market, and I was wondering, is there maybe any appetite to move the main listing or to secure a second listing in either Oslo or the U.S.?
Yeah, no, we also get that question quite often. You know, there are some good arguments to be made as to why a listing in Oslo and in the U.S. could be beneficial for us. There are also possibly counterarguments as to whether this would be a game changer, because nothing really prevents investors from buying our shares, although we are listed on. In most cases, I would say nothing prevents them from buying our shares. Although we are listed on the Italian Stock Exchange. We have seen quite a change in our investor base.
We don't have a total visibility on this, but at least when we have AGMs or when we distribute dividends, we do have a bit more visibility of how our investor base has changed. We were quite surprised to see a much more international base of investors develop over the course of the last year. Of course, we will be pushing as a priority and to, you know, to get to be more recognized internationally with investors that would be typically investing in companies listed in Oslo or in the U.S. We don't rule out this possibility. It's just that we still haven't really of eventually having a listing in Oslo or in the U.S. It is something that we are still evaluating, and we are still not convinced it is the right thing to do.
Makes sense. That's all for me. Thank you for taking my questions, and congratulations for the quarter.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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Okay, fine. At this point, thank you very much for joining us, and we will talk in three months' time. Thank you.
Bye-bye. Thank you. Thank you.