Good afternoon. This is the conference call conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the d'Amico International Shipping first quarter 2023 results conference call. As a reminder, all participants are released in only mode. After the presentation, there will be a Q&A session. For operator assistance via web code, please press the bathtub icon on the bottom left side of your screen. For conference call assistance, please press star and zero on your telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Paolo d'Amico, Chairman and CEO. Please go ahead, sir.
Thank you. good afternoon, gentlemen and ladies. thank you for joining our call. We have our first quarter result of 2023. I apologize, but this time we are a little bit under pressure because we have a flight to catch in an hour time, so if we has to work a little bit on the fast mode. At this point, I'll give the floor to my colleague, CFO, Carlos Balestra. Please, Carlos, go ahead.
Yes, good afternoon to everyone. Thank you, Paolo. Just as usual, we start with, you know, the fleet overview. As in the previous presentation where we control a fleet of 36 vessels. The number of owned vessels as of 31st of March was of 21. We had, 7 bareboat vessels and 8 vessels on time charter. This fleet composition actually changed slightly, one last night. We now have 22 owned vessels and 6 vessels on bareboat charter, as we took delivery of the High Freedom. A young fleet still, especially relative to the industry average.
An average age of 7.9 years, whilst for the industry, the average age for the 12.7 and for the other ones, it's almost 14 years. Large proportion of eco vessels, so 79% of owned and bareboat and 78% of the entire fleet. Going on to the following page, in terms of CapEx commitments, nothing new to report here. We include the High Explorer in the as part of our investments for 2023, $30 million earmarked for that delivery of the vessel now expected at the end of May. The maintenance CapEx for the year is still expected at $14.5 million overall, of which already $4.8 were spent and another $9.7 are anticipated for the rest of the year.
It involves 10 vessels stopping for dry dock in 2023, which is a big number relative to our fleet. However, we see the benefit of that in the following years where maintenance CapEx is anticipated to be much lower, especially in 2024. In terms of the investments for 2023, it does include also the installation of two scrubbers on two of our other ones. Going on to the following page, in terms of repayments on our back debt, good to highlight that we don't have any more balloons to refinance until 2025. The only balloon that we have to refinance in 2025 is in relation to one vessel for an amount of around $11 million.
We had a balloon in 2024 for one of our vessels, the Cielo di Londra, that we reimbursed already this year in April. We are going to be refinancing this vessel expecting to draw down the new facility around the end of June, beginning of July. We are progressing well through the documentation to be able to draw down this facility by that date. On the right-hand side, we show how the daily repayments on our loans have been declining quite rapidly. The future declines are going to be driven mostly by the exercise of the purchase options on the lease vessels, which we are keeping that free, at least initially.
Therefore that will hopefully contribute meaningfully to reduce our PNL and cash break evens going forward. Partly compensating some of the cost pressures that we are seeing in other areas of our business, as we will see later. Going on to the following slide, we page 10. Here we show the purchase options on the lease vessels. On the top, on the top of the page, we show those which were already exercised. We see that the High Trust, which we recently announced that we have exercised, and we expect these vessels to be delivered to us around mid-July.
On the bottom, those which were still not exercised, the High Loyalty most likely will be exercised in the coming weeks. Then we have the Fidelity and Discovery, which were vessels that we which financed recently through new leasing transactions. The Discovery can be exercised already by September 2024. Then there's the Charlotte Hughes, which is the Joe Cole for, and that one is a bit less flexible as a transaction. The first exercise date is March 2024, and if we don't exercise in that window, we have to wait until September 2025 when we effectively have a purchase obligation. We anticipate to continue gradually exercising these options on the remaining options on these lease vessels.
Of course, it will depend on the market developments, but we are very positive in that respect. We expect to have ample availability of resources to be able to exercise these options. Going on to the following page, we show the time chart of in vessels. Nothing new to report here. We have exercised the Adventurer and the Explorer. The Explorer as I mentioned just now is to be delivered to us around the end of May. The other options are also in the money to a lesser extent than the Adventurer and Explorer were.
Since vessel values seem to continue moving up, they are becoming increasingly interesting and most likely as we arrive closer to the end of these time charter in contracts, the exercise of these options will be reconsidered, especially if we are still in a very strong market. We are likely to be exercising some of these options too in the future, therefore. Going on to the following page, in terms of coverage, we are now we have had some success here in covering some of our vessels. We are now 24% covered for the rest of 2023 at an average rate of just over $29,000 per day.
The coverage does fall quite rapidly in 2024, but I'd like to highlight here that we have covered one of our vessels recently, an eco vessel for 32 months. Just over two years and a half at a very attractive rate. There is also interest from charters for longer contracts now, which demonstrates that the players anticipate this market to last for quite some time. Going on to the following page, we provide an outlook of the earnings in the current quarter, which despite the volatility, has been so far quite a strong quarter.
The days fixed on the spot by vessels represent 44% of our total available days for the quarter at an average rate of just over $34,000. The TC contracts for the quarter represent 27% of our available days in the quarter at an average rate of just over $29,000, giving a blended rate of almost $32,300 for 71% of the available vessel days. Which means that even if we were to earn only $20,000 on the remaining three days, our blended rate for the quarter would be of around $28,700. If instead, on the three days, we were to achieve an average rate of $30,000, our blended rate for the quarter would be around $31,600.
We are here not providing any guidance as to what we expect the rate on the remaining three days to be, but we are just providing the tools to our investors and to the analysts so that they can then make their own calculations and assumptions in this respect. Going on to the following page, we here take a slightly longer term view on our results. At the bottom left, we show our potential recurring results in 2023, making an assumption of an overall break even of $15,000 per day for 2023.
Given the contracts already in place, given the vessels already fixed on the spot market also, the recurring results would be of around $112 million if we were to break even on the remaining three days. However, if we were to earn on average $20,000 per day on the remaining three days, overall results, net results for 2023 would be of a net profit of $138 million. In case the average earnings on the remaining three days were of $30,000 per day, these results would be closer to $200 million.
This gives you an idea of the profit potential for the company for the full year 2023 and for the coming two years. Going on to following page. Here we look at our costs. As anticipated in our previous calls, the dynamics here are not as favorable as they were after successfully reducing these costs since 2018 and then keeping them under control over the course of the last few years. We have experienced significant inflationary pressures over the course of 2022, which have then led to this increase in costs in the first quarter of this year.
The main items which have contributed to this increase have been crew costs, an increase in crew costs, and an increase in insurance costs as of course, because of the sharp increase in asset values, we have also realigned our coverage to cover our vessels at these higher values. Leading to an increase in the premiums that we have to pay to our insurance companies. There were also, of course, some currency effects which impacted this cost. They have been more significant in relation to our G&A, where 75% of our costs are in currency, which are different from the US dollar.
There were also, in terms of G&A, upward pressures because the variable compensation component, of course, is linked to the very strong results that we have achieved last year and that we anticipate to receive this year. They are not a permanent part of our cost structure. In a weaker market there, part of these increases are therefore expected to unwind. I would say that those are the main items. Of course, there's more traveling, which is having that is not as an important a contributor as the other costs we mentioned.
Traveling activity has resumed in full, also for us, this year and already in the course of 2022. That also is contributing to some upward pressure on the G&A costs. Going on to the following page, we show a quick glance at the key indicators related to our balance sheet. The ratio between the net financial position and the market value improved further, decreasing from 36% to 27%. 36% at the end of last year, so 27% at the end of the first quarter. We like to remember that this ratio was at 73% at the end of 2018.
This is a very big improvement that we managed to achieve, and that leaves us in a very strong position currently. We expect this ratio to improve further in the coming quarters given the strong prospects for the market. We ended the quarter also with $155 million in cash. We generated very strong EBITDA, it was quarter of $76 million. Also as anticipated, our cash flow generation, cash flow from operations in the quarter was actually even stronger. It was of $99 million because we had some positive working capital effects. And we had discussed these in our previous call in relation to our full year 2022 results. Looking at the...
Going on to the following page, the key line items of our PNL. The net profit for the first quarter was of $54 million. Excluding non-recurring items it was of $56.5 million, relative to a loss of $6.5 million in the first quarter of last year. Of course a very strong improvement. Going on to the following page. On the daily TCE spot, the average was for the first quarter almost $36,700. That is weaker than Q4 last year, which was exceptionally strong. It's pretty much aligned with Q2 last year, where the average was just above $37,000, and it is stronger than Q2 last year.
It's still a very good result. As we showed you, just now, Q2, is also has been so far also very strong. I pass it over to Paolo for the market, overview.
Thank you, Carlos. The throughput from the refineries is recovering again from the COVID situation. The last one who is coming back into the market is China. They are increasing a lot of their capacity and even with the slowdowns which are expected, we see an increase on the throughputs worldwide. The inventories are at very low level. What we are seeing, and this is probably a feeling of a possibility of a recession or a very light one, the decline in Middle Distillate cracks because consumption in Middle Distillate, they are, I would say on diesel, they are going down. In the meantime, the consumption of gasoline and especially the consumption of jet fuel, they are increasing.
Jet fuel is really strongly increasing a lot. This is due to the fact that mostly in the Far East, flights are recovering, the number of flights, they are increasing, and people is traveling more. Certainly, we have, again, a little bit of a competition from the crude tanker market because these gas, they create less demand on the crude tankers. It's nothing that we really worry about because looking at the average rates we are making today, I don't really see any problem. The change on the refinery landscape is, as I said in previous calls, very much concentrated in the Middle East, Far East, China, and India. This means more ton-mile for supplying the markets in U.S. and Europe. Even this is a positive element for the demand.
Shell oil is improving, but it's not going to be a game changer because producers are very much focused in paying back debts and giving dividends. Where is the, let's say, I think the, the real fundamental to our industry is on the supply side, because we have elements which will be pushing older vessels to demolition or to slow down. I'm talking about the intensity indicators that we have, Energy Efficiency indicators which are coming in force. The pool of demolition candidates is increasing quarter by quarter because the city is aging. Just to give you an idea, if we take the tanker industry as an whole, crude and clean, and on all the dimensions, more than 10% already is over 20 years of age.
This is something that should make us thinking on how tight the supply is going to be in the future. If you want to build a new ship today, you're not going to receive it before the 2025, 2020 or 2026. It's very much down the road. The new building costs are extremely high, this is stopping, of course, any sort of speculative order. The final result of this, that the fleet growth is basically close to zero. Looking, starting from the supply side, our fundamentals are extremely strong. We put the demand which is there, and which is requiring longer routes, more ton-miles.
I can say that even in a very volatile world, even with the uncertainty of due to possible recession or not, I mean, I think that we certainly are, and I think we will stay in a positive ground for quite a while. I leave it to Carlos to talk to you about the NAV.
Thank you, Paolo. The last slide here we usually cover in the presentation, which is the one relating to the NAV. Our NAV, since the end of last year rose from around $740 million to almost $810 million. On a per share basis, it rose from also U.S. dollar, U.S. dollars, from $0.6 to $0.66. That represented as at the end of March, a discount of 23% of NAV, based on where our share price is trading today. Based on where our share price is trading today, the discount is closer to 40% to NAV, which is once again, an enormous discount.
Our share price today is actually trading pretty much in line, very small discount to our book value, which we think doesn't make too much sense. We are once again, very cheap, relative to our fund which Last few years. So that really represents an absolute minimum at which we should be trading, and it would only be justified in if we anticipated a very negative scenario going forward, which is not the case because we, the markets are still very strong. Despite some headwinds on the macroeconomic front, there are many other aspects which will be supporting the market as Paolo covered. We do still expect the markets to be very strong in the coming quarters and years.
I pass it over to you for the Q&A session.
This is the inaudible conference operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. To enter the queue for questions, please click on the Q&A icon on the left side of the screen, then press your raise your hand button. Please do not mute your microphone locally, and when prompted, make sure you turn on your webcam in with the pop-up window. If you are on the phone instead, please press star one on your keypad. The first question is from Matteo Bonizzoni of Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good afternoon. I have two questions. The first one relates the volatility of the spot rate, which we have observed year-to-date, and also I would say some swings in the refined margin. The spot rate were softening a little bit in January, if I'm correct, then strengthening again significantly in February. From the public information which we receive currently, we are around half of the level which you posted as an average in Q1. There has been a significant correction. Also if you look at the refining margins, there have been, for example, the results of Saras, but also other refiners, starting from April, the level of the refining margin has significantly corrected, in particular as regards diesel, no?
It's which proved very strong for some number of months, and now it has significantly corrected in the last month or a month and a half. How you see this situation, can you provide a little bit of color on this volatility? Your expectation in the near term remain positive, but just to know your view on this kind of movements, and if there could be another maybe strengthening from this level which we have seen as of late? The second question is more a numerical question. Putting the figure in the Monique in Excel, I could not reconcile some data which you provided.
If I put a fleet market value of $1,037 and a net financial position ex IFRS 16 of $316, I get a loan to value of 30.5% and not 27.2%, which you disclosed. To get that kind of loan to value, I would need to assume a fleet market value significantly above what you disclosed in the region of $1,160. Just to check if I'm missing something or if there is some data. Thanks.
I pick up the first one. I mean, we have to face it. We are in a slowdown. I mean, we cannot say that there's nothing is happening. Also the fact that the refining margins on diesel, and you know that diesel is the fuel of the economy. It reflects, think of a number of containers that they are moving less in the States, and the relative tracking, which is not needed anymore. Of course, the diesel is in a weak position. This doesn't change for us too much because as I said, the jet fuel is growing a lot. We move from one commodity to another one.
Yes, we are related of course to the energy world, but not as strong as many people think. This is what happened. As far as our rates, no, yes, the rate went down, but we have also to do analysis in the sense that you have the Atlantic basin, which is paying by far less than the Far East. The Far East is tightening a lot. That's why, because you have these strong movements of diesel from Far Eastern refineries going to Europe and going west. You have an increased movement of the fleets going west and increasing the supply on the west side and decreasing the supply on the east side. Thanks God, our exposure on the west side is extremely limited, and our exposure on the east side is quite good.
Not because we are genius, because I mean, we try to avoid to go west when everybody was going west. Yes, from a general, let's say, look, the rates, they lost ground. If you go in a deeper analysis, in peace we are still running around $30,000 a day, which is not far away from the numbers Carlos Balestra was telling you about for Q1. I hope this helps you.
Yeah. Now I'd just like to add a few things to what Paolo said, and then I will also answer the other question. It is true that the refining margins have come down and as we show here, but these are cracks for
Assuming you are buying brand, okay? I mean, as we know, a lot of refineries in Asia today, especially in India and China, are buying very cheap Russian crude. These are also more modern refineries. The, the margins that they are making are completely different from the margins that the refineries in Europe are making. And shipping, I would say is driven by, you know, on the demand side by two main factors. One is the demand for the final product. How, you know, if volumes are consumed increase, indirectly that will flow through to a greater need for transportation. Arbitrages are very important, and this location of refineries is very important.
This environment in which we are in, where you have refineries in one part of the world which are earning margins which are completely different from refineries in the rest of the world, creates huge arbitrage opportunities. That is driving a lot of product from the east to the west, and that is what Paolo was referring to. That is the reason why a lot of vessels have moved from east to west, and that is why the market is so weak in the West right now, one of the reasons, and it is very strong instead in the East. This environment is very positive to us. There's a difference in margins in these two different basins.
This is something that we have been talking about for a long time, that was going to happen in any case, even without the war. There was this location of refineries as even without the cheaper product that they are buying today from Russia, the refineries in Asia and in the Middle East that are being built are more competitive. They are more modern refineries. They can deep conversion refineries, they can produce more of the higher value-added products. They were driving out the cannibalizing the production of the older refineries in Europe. That trend accelerated during COVID, and it will accelerate further in the coming years.
As you saw in our presentation, over the next two and a half years, there are 7.3 million barrels per day of additional refinery capacity that is going to come online. Where is that refinery capacity coming online? In India, in China, and in the Middle East. These refineries, for different reasons, are going to be gaining market share, and this is going to be contributing to ton-miles and helping our market. I think that is very important to keep in mind. In relation to the other question, if we look at our financial position, we have a slide here in the presentation, excluding IFRS 16, it's actually of $282 million.
As you see here, it's $360 million, including IFRS 16, $282 excluding. Feed market value of just over $1 billion. The ratio is 27%. I hope that answers your question.
The next question is from Massimo Bonisoli of Equita. Please go ahead. Mr. Bonisoli, your line is open.
Yes. Can you hear me now?
Yes.
Good. Good afternoon. Thank you for the presentation. Two question. One is on the price of older vessels on page 20. They increased faster than your vessel, if I got correctly. It is even more evident if we look at 20 years old vessel. I just want to understand your opinion on the implication. Does it implies that the scrap charge rate will decline going forward or an older vessel may remain on the market, or am I wrong with that? The second question is on the cost increase on page 15. If you can provide some indication on the inflation cost effect for the full year on 2023. Thank you.
Okay. Again, I pick up the first one. From a theoretical point of view, if you have a supply which of new vessel which is basically blocked, freezed, and you have a current fleet going on, of course, the age of the vessel will increase. Already historically, the product carriers, due to the fact that they are built with coatings which protects them from corrosions and so on and so forth, they are, let's say, they live longer than a normal tanker. They, let's say, go scrap around 25 year of age. That is the commercial use of the ship, because already over 20 years, already over 15 years, you have, charterers take the, first, the three play, let's say. The severances, the accidents and so on, they are not chartering well.
You are already moving to traders. Then going over 20, you have another life
Of chapters who are not paying you back. Of course, more you go ahead and more and more these ships are going to be excluded. What happens to the market? The market, of course, has to pay more and will be an equilibrium, a need, a certain point of substitution the older fleet. We hope that we will see some period business which will help us to substitute the vessel in the, in, on the long term. Because the risk is that the top chapters, again, the Sevens, the Exxon and so on, they need to find themselves without availability of ships because the number is there and you can. You have to add another thing, which is the more or less sanctioned trade with Russia.
I mean, the many owners unknown to us at least, have been buying heavily secondhand ships, which of course are, they end up in the Russian fleet. The sanctioned one or the non-sanctioned one, anyhow, they end up there. For us and for our market, these ships are like to be demolished because they are going to disappear. They are not coming back to compete with us. That is another element of reduction of supply. Where we are going to end up with all this, frankly, I have an opinion, I mean, it is very, very difficult to say. At one point, I think that the top guys, they have to stand there and say, "Look, we have to do some project here because otherwise we are not going to solve the future problem.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. To answer the other question and also just add a comment in relation to the dynamics for the older vessels. It is not surprising that the older vessels tend to rise by a larger percentage when you have very strong markets. Of course, they discount a lower number of years of cash flows in their valuation. That there is a very rational reason why they are more sensitive to the current market environment. In this particular case that we are experiencing now, there is an additional reason why these vessels are very much in demand.
Despite of course the, you know, what we would have expected instead, because given all the push for ESG, given the fact that these vessels are going to have to be paying more for the CO2 emissions that they're going to be generating because they're going to be generating more CO2 emissions from next year, when they're trading in European waters. They are hugely in demand because as Paolo was referring to, they are the vessels which are primarily trading Russian products. They are being bought by companies which are then using them exclusively for such trades. That is putting a lot of pressure on the S&P market, on these vessels, on the prices of these vessels.
I imagine that often the buyers of these vessels also have to buy them only with equity. They don't have access to bank financing. They are bought through vehicles which have opaque shareholding structures. There is an increasing number of vessels which are moving to that trade. This is something we didn't discuss in the call, but I mean, the immediate effect of the sanctions that came into force on the fifth of February from the European Union were to reduce the number of vessels that were calling Russia. There was an initial, let's say, reaction of prudence even by operators which were calling Russia before.
Of course, that increased the profitability of such trades to the detriment of the profitability of the other trades. That is probably one of the reasons which explains the volatility and the weakness we are seeing in the spot markets, particularly in the west of Suez area. As more vessels migrate to these trades because of these higher profits which are available on these trades, this will tend to self-adjust itself. These abnormal profits which are being earned in these Russian trades by the shipowners are going to diminish most likely and the freight rates for the other trades are going to increase. We are going through, I would say, an adjustment phase.
For example, one immediate effect which we saw was an increase in Russian exports to Brazil. Now, Brazil used to import a lot of products from the U.S. Gulf. Now it is importing from Russia. It is a longer distance. If you look at the market as a whole, it is a positive development. This positive development is being taken advantage of only currently by the owners which are calling Russia. As more vessels, as I mentioned, move into that trade, then the rest of the market will also benefit from this. It's also important to note that the vessels which are calling Russia, in many cases are trading exclusively sanction trades, primarily Russia.
Therefore, they're extremely inefficient because they are not able to do the usual triangulations that we do, and they have very long ballast legs, so very unfavorable ballast to laden ratios, which reduces their productivity. That is also good for the market. In relation to the other costs on the direct operating cost front, our anticipation is that the increase this year is going to be lower than what we experienced on a quarter-on-quarter basis in Q1, which was of 10% increase. It's more likely to be in the 6%-7% range. It's also true that a lot of these costs are front-loaded.
We tend to concentrate a lot of our purchases of spare parts for our vessels in the first years of the year.
It's very clear. Thank you.
Thank you. That was helpful.
The next question is from Daniele Aliberti of Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. Two question also on my side. The first one, in relation to the guidance from that point this year, which is 20-30%. This clear to me, but when looking at 2024, how should we think about the coverage evolving in 2024? Those days are still 80% rather than the rate of 22K. I was wondering if we can assume progressing like in the range we should see this year or maybe more towards your historical level of 46%. Also, given the comment that you did on, you made on the MR book at an interest rate at 42 months. This is my first question.
The second question I've seen on the specialist paper that in the last week, month, there were some pick up in order book. Do you think this is this activity is let's say still a normal one or you are seeing an acceleration? Thank you.
Sorry, the last question we couldn't hear. It was not very clear. If you can repeat, please.
Yes. No, the second question was on, I saw on the specialized newspaper that the vessels order have picked up a little bit over the last weeks. Are you seeing an increasing trend of this?
The conference is now closed.
Talking about the coverage, normally we start looking at the coverage when we are at the end of the current quarter and then the first one, because it is a lot to look in the market and it is fundamentally better. Today, we see where we are. Of course, if there is an opportunity, as we had this American oil company who took us for close to three years, we did it. Otherwise, we give a look at them. Going ahead, there are so many variables that we have to see and how we are going to feel the market in October, let's say, to make a decision, and what, of course, will be available there.
Fundamentally, for all the reasons that Carlos and myself is saying, we believe that next year is going to be a reasonable market. I don't want to start speculating on things that are still far away, but fundamentally, the numbers today tells us this. is, number one, there is no way today that you can take a cover, a heavy cover for next year on today's market because everybody is looking each other. The stock market is still playing, as I said, very well. I don't see any reason to move up. We started with 2023 saying we wanted a 20%, at least a 20% cover, and we did it, and we did it at very good levels.
Let's say worse come to worst, we are going to do the same. If we see some worries and we have good opportunities, of course we are going to increase. I think it's premature today the way the world is going, it's premature today to talk about 2024 now.
On the-
Yes, on the new buildings. Sorry. Yes. There are a few new buildings which have been ordered, but, I mean, it's minimum. It's marginal, say it's up to six.
Yeah, on the orders, Daniele, or I mean, if you look at the segments we operate in, we did provide an update here. It's still very much under control. We would like to highlight two things in that respect. One is that the issue is 33. Yeah, 33. The delta between the order book and the fleets, which has more than 20 years, despite these orders that you are referring to in the segments we operate in increased. It was up 3.7% at the end of 2022, and it moved to 4.1%. Therefore, the pool of demolition candidates increased faster than the order book, despite this small increase in the order book.
There were overall 28 vessels ordered in MR and LR, LR1 segments as of the end of March. It's definitely not a very high number. If you annualize that, then of course if you continue ordering at these rates, then that can be more concerning. Yeah. The outlook as it stands is still very positive in this respect. There were more orders, however, placed for LR2s. If we were to include LR2s here in the picture, it wouldn't look as good as it looks by excluding them. Now LR2s however, they also compete with the Aframaxes.
They do move quite a lot from the dirty to the clean trades. The order book for the Aframaxes is much more limited than the order book for the LR2s. In general, for all the crude tankers, the order book is minimal. Currently, performance much lower than for the product tankers. We are talking 3%, around 3%. We are not too concerned about these orders for the LR2s. The Aframax sector is the one which has been benefiting most from the current environment on a relative basis. That is probably why this has driven some shipowners to focus their orders on the LR2 sector.
Okay. Thank you. Very clear. Thank you.
Thank you.
Gentlemen, there are no more questions registered at this time. I'll turn the call back to you for any closing remarks.
At this point, I just thank you all for being with us. If there are no any more questions, thank you very much and we will meet again at our next call. Thank you.
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining. The conference is now over. You may disconnect your devices.