Good afternoon, this is the Chorus Call conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the De' Longhi Third Quarter 2023 Consolidated Results Presentation. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Should anyone need assistance during the conference call, they may signal an operator by pressing star and zero on their telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Fabio De' Longhi, Chief Executive Officer of De' Longhi. Please go ahead, sir.
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the De' Longhi Group's third quarter 2023 results conference call. Today, together with me are Nicola Serafin, Group General Manager, Marco Cenci, Chief Strategy and Control Officer, Stefano Biella, CFO, Fabrizio Micheli, Director of M&A and IR, and Samuele Chiodetto, Investor Relations. We're extremely satisfied with the third quarter results, which confirmed and strengthened the signs of a normalization phase we have been observing across different aspects of our business performance since the beginning of the year. In terms of the top line, the third quarter delivered high single-digit organic growth, and despite some macroeconomic uncertainties, the group was able to achieve growth across the majority of the geographies in both coffee and cooking and food preparation in the last three months.
With respect to margins, the profitability trend has shown a steady improvement in recent quarters compared to the previous year, thanks to the strict control of investments and a careful pricing strategy, as well as a recovery of logistics costs and an easing of pressure on remaining operating costs. The enablers allow us to be optimistic about medium-term developments, also thanks to the renewed commitment to invest in communication with a new Perfetto and the NutriBullet, it's that simple campaigns, which have been launched in the recent weeks. This confidence is also backed up by the continuous introduction of the new products and solutions designed to improve the customer experience and enable them to make responsible choices. Let me also mention sustainability among the critical enablers for De' Longhi, an aspect that is increasingly influencing our managerial decisions and will be incorporated in the group's systemic approach.
With the goal of further enhancing internal awareness on this topic, the group has initiated a learning journey for its employees, which kicked off yesterday with a lecture on sustainability held by Nobel Prize Professor Stiglitz. On the innovation topic, allow me to highlight the slides from 4 through 6, where you can see the main product launched in 2023 for key categories. This is the result of a strong focus on investments in research and development, constantly working to enhance the quality, design, and usability. Among the others, let me just mention Rivelia, the first fully automatic coffee machine included a Bean Switch System, allowing consumers to easily switch and explore different bean varieties. And La Specialista Arte Evo, with Cold Extraction Technology, another step to enlarge our target audience addressing the cold brew drinkers. Now, let me focus on the quarterly results.
Consolidated revenues for quarter three were up by 3%, 3.3%, reaching EUR 607 million, with a significant negative impact of -4.8% from the currency components. In quarter three, all macro regions experienced a notable organic evolution, except MEA. In particular, the European region exhibited growth at high single digits at constant exchange rates. This is a significant improvement, especially in light of the challenges which the region faced in 2022 due to the geopolitical crisis and decreased purchasing power of consumers. In more details, Southwest Europe showed an expansion in turnover of +7%, thanks to the increase in both core categories, which contributed to achieving double-digit performance in Germany, Austria, and the Iberia region.
Northeast Europe accelerated versus the previous quarter, benefiting from significant growth in the UK, Benelux, in the area of the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary, supported both by recovering the food preparation business and by continuation of coffee expansion in the area. The MEA region was still in negative territory, mainly due to the macro context and the currency impact. In the Americas, turnover, which in the first six months had been affected by the discontinuity in mobile air conditioning, achieved an acceleration in the quarter, +13.8% organic, thanks to the contribution of coffee and the NutriBullet nutrition segment. Finally, the Asia Pacific region showed an expansion in turnover of +2.5% at constant exchange rates, but with a significant negative currency impact in the main countries in the area, both in the quarter and in the nine months.
As regards the evolution of the product segments, the core categories showed a progressive improvement over the course of the year, delivering a strong organic growth in the quarter. The coffee machines for household sector confirmed a positive expansion already seen in the second quarter, especially thanks to the constant enlargement of the fully automatic coffee market. As regards the Eversys professional coffee machine sector, we highlight another outstanding quarterly performance, keeping the weight of the segment on the group's total revenue to 5%. Food preparation is back to positive territory, achieving growth at a mid-teens rate at constant FX in the quarter, thanks to the strong expansion of the nutrition segment under the NutriBullet brand. In addition, the recovery of many of the product families, such as food processors, spin juicers, and air fryers.
Finally, the comfort segment remained in negative territory due to postponement of the winter season in some relevant markets, while the home care achieved a double-digit growth, thanks to a significant acceleration in the ironing category branded Braun. Looking now at the evolution of operating margins in the quarter, the net industrial margin improved by 49% of revenues from 46.7% in 2022, benefiting from the recovery of some production costs. We highlighted in the first nine months, the price mix effect was positive by EUR 30 million. Adjusted EBITDA amounted to EUR 105 million or 14.9% of revenues, delivering a market improvement compared to 9.2% in the third quarter of 2022, and in continuity with the market improvement achieved in the first six months.
The improvement in profitability was also partially supported by postponement of some investments in media and communication in the quarter, due to the launch of the new campaigns in recent weeks. As to the balance sheet, net financial position as of September 30, 2023, stood at EUR 326 million, and it had been significantly increased from EUR 29 million, reached last year. In particular, the free cash flow before dividends and acquisitions amounted to EUR 14 million in the quarter, EUR 99 million in the nine months, and EUR 369 million in the twelve months rolling.
In particular, we would like to point out that in the nine months, the group was able to generate EUR 188 million of cash from current operation and working capital movements, compared to a completely opposite picture of last year, minus EUR 159 million of absorption in the nine months of 2022, representing another significant step towards gradual normalization. Now, as a conclusion to my results overview, let me remark that the group's excellent performance in the last few months supports and strengthens its prospects for post-pandemic normalization, with all key financial metrics, including growth, profitability, and cash flow, continually heading up in the right direction.
Although the current economic and geopolitical backdrop remains characterized by uncertainty and variability, we are confident in the group's ability to overcome these challenges and capitalize on the growth potential offered by the coffee and NutriBullet nutrition segments. Having said that, in light of the dynamics of progressive recovery and profitability, we look at the targets for the year with optimism. In particular, we are confirming the estimate of slightly decreasing revenues. We raised the guidance on Adjusted EBITDA for the year, which we estimate now in the range of EUR 340 million-EUR 440 million. Now, we can open the floor to Q&A. Thank you.
This is the Chorus Call conference operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and two. We kindly ask you to use handsets when asking questions. The first question is from Niccolò Storer of Kepler Cheuvreux.
Thank you. Thank you for taking my question, and congratulations on results. I'm focusing on slides 13 and 14, where you show the EBITDA bridge, and in particular, on slide 13, with nearly EUR 46 million in other costs to save. Can you please split the benefit you had from A&P, and that you had from logistic cost? And looking at the nine months, you have had EUR 79 million improvement from lower cost. How should we think of this amount going forward? In Q4, you already talked about some postponement of A&P expenses. Should we expect this being balanced by further savings on logistics?
How should we think about 2024? Have you already reached a sort of stabilization in cost, or should we expect further saving flowing through the PNL? Thank you.
Go to the bridge on the nine months and trying to extrapolate what might happen in quarter four. We expect to have on the—this is the 12-month, right? Nine-month to bridge. In the next three months-[audio distortion]
Sorry, for the next three months, we expect to have a flat contribution from volumes, more or less. We continue to be positive on some mix contribution, mix contribution. We expect to continue to have positive improvements in the industrial costs, and as well on freight and logistics costs.
At the same time, we might give back something in pricing because we got a cost advantages, and the profitability will be under control, but we believe to maintain or improve potentially our market share, we might give back something, especially in the critical promotional times. We're facing very important promotional weeks, and with the support of our advertising, reinforce the advertising campaigns, we will try to also maximize the opportunity by offering a strong financial opportunities to our customers. In terms of, we compared to last year, in the fourth quarter, advertising will be in line or slightly below in absolute value versus last year.
Prospects for next year, I think is a bit too early, but I might anticipate that on the cost side, probably we have achieved in a year more than we might have expected originally. For next year, we expect to have stabilization on the cost advantages that we are benefiting now.
Okay, thank you. Maybe a brief follow-up. You highlight a negative price mix in Q3, if you can comment on that, if it is price, if it is mix, or what it is? Thank you.
Yeah. No, I would say that, I'm not sure about negative product mix. But, I think we might have positive product mix, but we probably have negative price mix, on the back of, the promotional initiatives.
Thank you. And maybe if you can quantify the EUR million you spent on A&P year to date, if you have the number at hand. Thank you.
Okay. A&P, total A&P in the nine months were around EUR 140 million.
14, 140?
EUR 240 million, EUR 240 million.
Ah, EUR 240 million. Okay.
With advertising and promotional together.
Brilliant. Thank you.
The next question is-
Comparing to EUR 271 million last year.
The next question is from Francesco Brilli of Intermonte.
Good evening. Thanks for taking my question. Congratulations for the solid results. The first one is again on advertising and promotion costs. If you can expand a little bit on this, on if it's due to an overall reduction of investment, phasing effect between quarters or just other initiatives that just to understand if it's confirmed the previous indication of the incidence of A&P on, say, it's flat for the full year 2023 versus last year. The second is on Forex, in light of the impacts on the 9-month, we can consider this level reasonable impact also for the full year. And the last one is on cash position you have.
You have a very, very strong position, positive net financial position, which is increasing quarter after quarter. Just in terms of capital allocation, what do you think could be the most likely option going forward? I'm thinking of M&A or potential share buyback or higher, higher dividends. Thank you.
Okay, now, thank you for the nice comments on the results. Thank you. On questions, A&P. I would say, yeah, we're gonna have a lower level in the fourth quarter, as said. We will maintain a high share of voice. Actually, potentially, I think an increased share of voice as we see competitors are investing less in our core categories, while even we are spending a little bit less, we're more efficient, and we were gaining market share in the advertising space. Having said this, no, we think that in reality, so the reduction is what is some cutback in certain categories, in particular, with regards to food preparation, we cut back a bit.
We are gonna invest more behind NutriBullet for the quarter. We're gonna invest more behind our fully automatic coffee maker, but the savings will come from efficiencies and some reduction, as said, in some weaker categories as food preparation. I don't know, Nicola, if you want to add some color around it?
Oh, yeah. A couple of comments along on this. Definitely, there is also a bit of effect of phasing because as you have seen, we have launched a new campaign renewing our cooperation with the global ambassador, and the new campaign has went live in France by last week of September, and in all the other countries, European countries, it was beginning of October. So this means that there is a bit of a translated effect between the two quarters. We are expecting in the fourth quarter slightly below, in line, slightly below last year.
So the effect that you see in this quarter is in the third quarter much significant than the one that we will have on the fourth quarter in terms of impact. And I would reiterate what Fabio has told that it's not just an effect of expenses reduction, but it's also on optimization in allocation, as our current share of spending in the product segment is increasing across all the geographies.
Thank you, Nicola. With regards to FX, I think it's fair to consider a very similar effect of FX in the next quarter. And with regards to the question to the cash, net cash position, we're very pleased with the cash generated by the business. You know, I take the opportunity really to say that we have generated approximately EUR 500 million in 12 months before investments and dividends. So very strong cash position. The company is back on track in that perspective, and the priority will be M&A. Will be M&A.
Of course, if we continue with this cash generation, and I don't see any reason why we should decelerate, usually the fourth quarter can generate between EUR 150 million and EUR 200 million in cash. So I suspect that we can have a year-end cash position, net close to EUR 500 million positive. And again, I said, this will put a lot of pressure on us to, on M&A. And but again, I don't want to add anything more than that. The company is working on that actively, and is our top priority. So buyback is not our priority as dividend, but is an acquisition.
Thank you very much. Very clear.
The next question is from Isacco Brambilla of Mediobanca.
Hi, good afternoon, everybody. Three questions from my side. First one is on upgrade of the EBITDA guidance this year. Could you comment a bit on the building, on the main building blocks of the EUR 50 million upgrade in guidance of what's driving this? Second question is on current trading in the key fourth quarter, especially for food preparation, just to better understand if the sharp acceleration in the third quarter was somehow structural or related to transitional factors. Last question is on inventory. I see it touch above the usual increase in the third quarter, which is a bit strange, considering the strong offline trends you are experiencing.
Is it related to some specific actions from your side to have enough products ahead of an important quarter? Which kind of expectations do you have for the full year?
Sorry, I'm not sure, the line was a bit disturbed on your last question, if you can rephrase it, please. Thank you.
Yeah. What are you expecting from inventory, which was half quarter-on-quarter, even despite a strong top-line trends, so strong, sell out from, from your side. So just, wondering whether this was related to some specific actions. So on your side, whether enough products are high-end of, of an important work?
Yeah, I think that. Thank you, Isacco. Okay, the upgrade on guidance, I think, is frankly because the third quarter has already delivered most of the gap versus the previous guidance for the year-end results. I think we have the strong much stronger third quarter. We also have some positive signs in current trading. October was a good month, was a good month. So we think that it's just a extrapolation of what we've been delivering in the previous months and what we are seeing in the month of October. Second question about the organic growth was at 8.8%. I think is probably in a higher part of our mid-term, mid to long-term guidance.
We think that this group can grow between 5% and 10%, so it is in the range. It is in a higher end of the range, but we say that the ambition, long-term ambition is to grow above 5%, to give a guidance for not necessarily for next year, but for the future. With regard to inventory, I think that last year was very critical at mid-year. I think the team has done a phenomenal job already in the second half. This year the inventory dynamics have been more in line with our say historical trends. I leave the word to Nicola. Maybe Nicola, if you want to comment on this.
To the question, if we have enough inventory ahead of a very important quarter, we are in this moment in a much more normalized level of output, also from our supply chain. As you know, we have a part of a supply chain coming from Asia that is already on water or on hand. But we have definitely full blast in this moment at the supply chain from Europe to support the coffee market in particular. So we do not see any risks in terms of inventory availability. And we see we are in the trajectory to have a good year-end level, more or less on the space of last year.
So we are confident to have the right level of supply in this moment, and to end up with as the inventory by year-end.
Okay, thanks, both for your answers.
The next question comes from Alessandro Cecchini of Equita.
Hello, everybody, and thank you for taking my questions. The first one actually is on the performance on food preparation that was above my expectations, probably also above your expectations in the third quarter with this kind of performance. So I would like to understand if this ramp up was how much was driven by the NutriBullet launch in Europe. So probably you can comment about specific numbers, but I would like to understand if it was a small, medium, or important support for the third quarter and what you are seeing in the market in the fourth quarter. My second question is that about the premiumization that you are highlighting.
It's something that is, you consider more structured than, I mean, temporary, and you are seeing the market, in last quarter to see a market that is still prioritizing, premium products? Or, I mean, so if you can clarify a little bit on this. And finally, my last question was, we had, positive financial income in the third quarter. You are close to EUR 1 billion of liquidity. I would like to understand, where you are investing this kind of cash, what is the return, and if you see that, with this kind of balance, of course, excluding, sizable M&A, you could, I mean, deliver more positive financial income than, negative financial income, last quarter for the next year. Thank you.
Okay. Food preparation, well, is, I think, of course, a hot topic. I think, coffee machines have been a strong element in our equity story, while food preparation, there was a strong contributor to our growth, and then let's say a couple of at least a gap year since the, you know, the normalization or the post-pandemic. I think that we feel positive about food preparation in the midterm, although we have experienced some negative sales in the short term, in the past years. We think that partially, it's also due to the reshaping of our product portfolio.
I think with NutriBullet, now we are more exposed to new trends, the younger generations, a new way of making cooking or preparing food at home. And very pleased about the NutriBullet results on the back of the, you know, positive numbers. We have reinforced our commitment to the brand. We have a new campaign, has kicked off in the month of October in the United States, will eventually roll out in other geographies soon. I think that we should continue to deliver growth. The growth was not just coming from the new markets, Europe, but also we deliver solid results for NutriBullet in North America. So we feel strong about, let's say, the portfolio.
As a matter of fact, we're trying really to also in our communication, you know, to describe in a different way our portfolio in food preparation. I think I'd like to continue using the word nutrition. Nutrition is a strong word that will become more meaningful in the future, in the way we behave, in the way we cook, in the way we eat, and our families behave. So, again, it's not just about NutriBullet, I think it's also about a recovery with our core products, notably, kitchen machines. I think the gap versus last year or two years ago, that was still very strong in the first month, now is closing. So I'm more positive, and I think that we should continue to deliver better results for the end.
Hopefully, on the back of the success on nutrition, next year, to go back to growth again. Premiumization of products, indeed, there is a, say, this trend is very visible for our coffee makers. I think that if consumers, they see a clear proposition, they see a clear benefit in products, they can pay more. This is, this is in a nutshell our philosophy around our coffee makers is around the bean-to-cup systems.
I think that having the chance of buying the beans you want, the best beans or your preferred coffee, using a bean-to-cup machine, which is simple, fast, and clean, is certainly a product which can easily convince consumers to trade up, and then you see premiumization. Probably now is a bit more difficult for food preparation, the traditional food preparation, where consumers at the moment are a little bit reluctant to buy. But this is what we are also witnessing with the NutriBullet.
Although NutriBullet has a very average price compared to the market, in reality, is positioned at a far higher price than most of the products, and we're seeing a strong trade up, and NutriBullet is winning new customers, both in North America and Europe. In terms of. So I think that some categories are witnessing trade up and premiumization, while I expect some other categories to continue to be a bit more competitive. In terms of cash, yeah, I can reiterate what I already commented on the cash generation. And acquisition is a priority.
If we're gonna sit on a pile of cash by year-end, but acquisition is a priority, and as an alternative, we certainly have dividends. We have already a policy for buybacks. Unfortunately, it's very regulated, in particular in Europe, and therefore it makes it very slow, the buyback initiatives. However, as said, is priority continue to be the acquisition. I want to reiterate this: acquisition is our priority.
Okay, thank you. I was just asking about the return of your cash, I mean, in terms of yield, in terms of, so EUR 1 billion of cash, you probably have more financial income than financial expenses, if this is correct to assume for the fourth quarter and for the next year. Last question from my side about Eversys, if you see reasonable to see this company to continue to grow also next year at a 20%-30% growth rates also thanks to new contracts, it's public that they won a contract with Starbucks.
The yield, yeah, we of course, we can have some positive financial income, but again, we are very conservative in our investment. We during COVID times, we have say we borrow money because we didn't know what to expect. I mean, we were potentially facing a major crisis, and what we were doing is we were investing in a very cautious way. We were not interested in making a high yield. Therefore, the say the incomes will be very limited. At the same time, sometimes the financial incomes can also, which will be positive from, let's say, the cash management, can also have negative signs, in particular with the currency hedging, which in some cases has delivered some negatives.
But in general, we don't comment on our financial incomes.
The next question, gentlemen, is from Andrea Bonfà of Banca Akros.
Hello, good afternoon to everybody. I hope you can hear me. Most of my questions have been answered, but I would like to have, let's say, some inputs on 2024, if that's possible. In particular, how do you see the pipeline, the new products next year? Where are you investing? Is there more automatic cash, automatic coffee machine, professional cash, cash machines, or any input that might help us? And the second one is related to the current situation of the Chinese yuan, which is evaluating materially and, in particular in China, there seems to be deflation right now going on, and if that might help on your next year gross margin, since most of your production is based in China.
And also in general, maybe a comment on raw material deflation, what's going on, on that front? Because for sure there is some deflation in raw material, but we know that this trend is a little bit sticky before having an impact, a material impact maybe in industrial companies. So if you can elaborate also on this point as part of next year progress concern. Thank you very much.
Okay, thank you. Thank you, Andrea, for your questions. So, the first question is about the products, the new products. I think that we have a strong pipeline of innovation. We have recently held in Treviso an international meeting to introduce the new products, which will be available to the sales team for 2024. There's a lot of excitement around the innovation. Maybe Nicola, you want to comment on what are the, you know, key products, also including the launch of Legacy of devices.
We have definitely on coffee, and it's not just on fully autos, but also in our pipeline of products that will be in the launch phase now in some selected countries, but it will be rolled out in all the countries next year. Rivelia, that is the machine that has been launched in France and Italy for the time being, will be available all over Europe, all over the world, from beginning of 2024. On the other side, there is Magnifica Evo Plus that is available in Germany for the time being, that will be rolled out all over the world. So we have quite significant range of novelties.
We have Start Milk, so that is, and again, in the logical premiumization that we are looking before, all these machines are going on the space of milk solution and beverages solution. That is definitely, that is definitely a range that is, representing a trade-up in our product mix. The cold, the cold brew version of the machine, also in the pump, in the pump machine, will be one of the key driver of new products for next year. And, going in the space, this is for the domestic, the household space. On the professional space, Eversys will have the launch of Legacy, that is the third platform of a machine for in the professional space.
Beyond coffee, we have a lot of products ready in the space of food preparation. We will reinforce the offering NutriBullet with cordless product, full size, and kitchen system blending and also in the space of and blenders for for and food processors for and kitchen, a new kitchen machine also for for Kenwood. So let's say that it's quite a robust pipeline. If I can comment also on the currency, it's true that in this moment the Chinese, the RMB is a bit of a tailwind.
On the other side, I would comment that we do not have the major of our cost from China, but we have still we are now a significant part of the cost that are Europe-based, because a large part of the supply is coming from Europe. So if this is favorable, the RMB, we have plenty of unfavorable currencies from a market point of view, starting from Australian dollar, Japanese yen in particular. That is quite significant in U.S. dollars as well. About cost inflation, I can comment also on this. Cost inflation, the trend we see in terms of transportation and freight probably going to a plateau because it's back to normalization.
Material trends has a reduction, but is definitely I would define this a slight reduction trend. On the other side, we have still pressure in terms of labor cost. So, my best estimate for 2024 is that these two effect could offset in 2024 and give a flatter compensated effect. Thank you very much.
The next question is from Luca Bacoccoli of Intesa Sanpaolo.
Yes. Hello, everyone, can you hear me? Hello?
Yes, we can. Yes, we can. Yes.
Ah, okay. Okay, good. So my, my first question is on the advertising and promotion in the third quarter. So if you can quantify the phasing effect that you were mentioning? The second question regards NutriBullet. At the time of the acquisition, NutriBullet was approximately generating EUR 200 million plus. So I was wondering, what should we expect at the end of this year from NutriBullet, and what was the precise top line growth reported in the nine months? And for next year, basically, if I understood correct, that you expect the food preparation back to normal level, the coffee machine basically, I think growing, also thanks to the strong pipeline that you just depicted.
So, it seems that the organic growth next year should at least in the lower end of the 5%-10% range that you were mentioning. So, my main question is if this assumption is fair, and the final one is on OpEx evolution. If I understood correctly, basically, the OpEx next year will expand in line with the top line. Is that a fair assumption? Thank you.
Luca, sorry, no, first of all, yeah, yeah, if you could rephrase the second question, which was a long question, and partially we couldn't hear very well the second part of... It was about NutriBullet, about the growth rate of-
Yeah.
Of the group-
Yeah.
NutriBullet and also, no, the expectation, the comparison with the one year ago, and then we lost a little bit, yeah, the line and the connection.
Yeah, I hope that you can hear me better in this way. So on NutriBullet, my question is, the top line that you expect this brand is going to reach by the end of this year. At the time of the acquisition, it was around EUR 200 million. So, what should we expect for this year? And what was the growth rate delivered in the first nine months? I know that you are pretty shy on giving details for each brand, but I think it's gonna be important. And, is there some other question that should I rephrase?
No, no, that's it. So, the first question is about the A&P and the P postponed. Nic ola, you answered the first time, so if you want to—
I can complete. Definitely, what would have been planned in September, having the full campaign, it would be something in the range of EUR 6-7 million, that we put a bit of on hold and bring in this to bring a boost to the campaign by October, November. So this is something that is a fair estimation of a different phasing between the two, the third and the fourth quarter. I grab also the last question about the OpEx evolution that we can expect in...
2024, definitely, this was a year of attention in terms of OpEx, because of the uncertainty and the volatility that we experienced from the very beginning of the year. We think that we can everything that is variable, given the situation that we have, we have now, can be considered in line and can be linear with the top line. Definitely, one of the area of attention that we have is definitely labor cost. We have because we sense all over the world, in all geographies, to be under pressure in terms of cost of labor.
Yeah, as about NutriBullet, we expect a growth rate for the year around 10%. Around 10%. Yes, it definitely, the brand is growing fast. Yeah, we're very pleased with the development. We have new launches, which will take place next year. So we hope we can continue delivering growth with the newly acquired brand. Now, and the last question about the OpEx? Yeah, Nicola has already answered, right? Yeah.
Yeah, but that's one missing on the next year top line growth. It's fair to assume at least a 5% growth organically.
For NutriBullet?
No, no, for the overall group, I'm referring to.
The expectation for next year or for this year? For-
For next year. For next year.
Well, it's too early. It's too early. I would like to really reiterate that the ambition for the group, with normalization, should be to grow above 5%. We feel strong about the coffee opportunity. We have some, let's say, events and which are, say, would be potentially affecting the growth rates in certain regions, like, MEA, for sure. But again, we think the potential for the group is to grow above 5%, and I think we will be working on the budget and finalizing the budget in the next days. And we will give you some guidance as soon as possible. But for the moment, I would stay more with o ur long-term perspective to grow above 5% without a clear guidance for 2024.
Okay, thank you.
De'Longhi, there are no more questions at this time, sir.
Thank you all for attending the De'Longhi third quarterly conference call. Thank you!