Good afternoon, this is the Chorus Call Conference Operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the ERG Full Year 2024 Results Strategy Update Conference Call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Should anyone need assistance during the conference call, they may signal an operator by pressing star and zero on their telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Paolo Merli, CEO of ERG. Please go ahead, sir.
Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to our webcast. The objective today is to review 2024 Results and Achievements while providing you with a strategic update on our business plan and targets. Here with me, as usual, Michele, our CFO. Let's get started with an overview of 2024 results. I'm on Page 5. The business environment over the last quarter, in particular, was characterized by wind availability that was well below the normal average across Europe, and particularly in the quarter. Here, I'll focus on full year results, and then Michele will provide more details about Q4. EBITDA closed at EUR 535 million, basically in line with last year, and closed at the midpoint of the guidance range.
The two major effects behind this performance were, on the one hand, the weaker production recorded during the period on a like-for-like basis, and on the other hand, the contribution coming from the new installed capacity, mainly the U.S. portfolio and the additional capacity in Europe, including our Repowering projects in Italy. The two effects had more or less the same economic magnitude, one negative and one positive, so they offset each other, making the 2024 annual EBITDA basically in line year-on-year, as simple as that. We invested significantly over the period, EUR 553 million, 13% up year-on-year. About two-thirds of CapEx were spent on M&A in France and the US, while roughly 1/3 as organic CapEx, mainly related to the works on assets under construction. Adjusted Net Profit was EUR 175 million, down 22% year-on-year, notwithstanding the flat year-on-year EBITDA.
This is due to higher depreciation and financial charges associated to the new assets. Net financial position at the end of the year was about EUR 1.8 billion, higher versus the end of 2023, but bang in line with our central case in the guidance range. Michele, again, will elaborate more on the cash flow over the period. In 2024, we kept delivering on our strategy. We proved successful in execution, adding about 580 MW with a mix of Repowering, greenfield, M&A. 2024 marks our entry in the U.S. Another pillar of our strategy, the route to market, was addressed, I think, in a positive way. In fact, in 2024 and early 2025, we signed five long-term PPA contracts with corporates, utilities, and tech companies for a total of 500,000 MWh per year. Our PPA portfolio is now in excess of 3,000,000 MWh per year.
As far as financing, we proved to be very competitive. We issued our fourth Green Bond, and we succeeded in obtaining our first financing from the European Investment Bank. In ESG, we consolidated our top-tier positioning in all ESG ratings, and ERG has been included for the first time in the Standard & Poor's 2025 yearbook. ESG is fully embedded in our business model. As far as shareholder remuneration, we are going to distribute EUR 1 per share, in addition to a buyback for EUR 23 million that has already been executed. Or 15 cents, bringing the total shareholder remuneration related to 2024 to EUR 1.15 per share. Let's move on. On Page 7, here a quick summary of our journey over the last four years since we announced a transformation into a pure wind and solar player.
See, through a combination of M&A, organic growth, we managed to add 1.8 GW of new installed capacity, different geographies, wind and solar. In the meantime, we have returned approximately, I mean, over the same period of time, EUR 850 million to our shareholders. I would say a quite strong execution. Page 8 , as you know, part of our growth relies and will keep relying on Repowering, a program that we started well in advance of the industry, which is now looking at it increasingly. We believe we are pioneers in this field. We're now 270 MW already powered in operation. This chart shows some key numbers of Repowering projects. I think you've got to know, but those are actual numbers. Over these projects, we managed to increase the installed capacity 2.5 times and to more than triple the production.
These all occupying the same soil and reducing, cutting by half the number of towers. With an investment of roughly EUR 360 million, we see both our return on capital employed and unlevered internal rate of return in excess of 11%, which is a premium compared to the traditional return in the industry. That is because also we managed to switch from CFD awarded during past auction at EUR 60 per megawatt hour with long-term corporate PPAs at better pricing, more in line with current market conditions. We expect the new wave of Repowering projects to be eligible to be auctioned under the FER X decree, which set CFD tariffs within a range of between EUR 70 and EUR 95 per megawatt hour.
The decree was long awaited, but now seems almost ready to be implemented, with the first auction expected to take place in 2025, I would say by year-end at the latest, but we hope sooner. Let's move on. Page 9 . As I said, another pillar of our strategy is the commitment to securing the route to market for our production. It is becoming particularly important in a time of high volatility and uncertainty about energy prices. In the last four years, we have signed several major long-term contracts with tier one corporates, tech companies, utility for a total amounting to a total of 3.3 TWh per year. Almost or about, say, 40% of our entire portfolio. We have been able to attract large corporates and utilities with a value proposition to cover their needs for zero-carbon green energy.
Our PPA portfolio is made up of contracts of various durations, ranging from short-term, five years, that's usually for the duration we applied for old assets, to up to 20 years for brand new assets. In a scenario of expected growing power demand over the next decades, driven by data centers, artificial intelligence, cryptocurrencies, and all manner of new and energy-intensive technologies, we believe, based on our track record, that we are very well positioned to capture this coming opportunity. Let's now comment on the regulatory framework evolution compared to one year ago. We have seen some improvements across all the countries where we operate in the EU. There are now auction systems and remuneration schemes in most of our countries. In Italy, the long-awaited FER X decree has finally arrived.
What is still lacking is a clear framework for storage, given the growing need for flexibility to couple with RES deployment. In Italy, we are waiting for the MACSE scheme, kind of a RAB or regulated asset-based system, tailor-made for battery storage. We are keeping a close eye on this evolution, but in the meantime, we have been developing a pipeline of storage projects to be exploited once the business environment turns favorable. Now, we are monitoring it in order, say, to be prepared to capture these opportunities that we see to come. Here, on Page 11, we show ERG as it's today. A solid and international platform of renewable assets with about 3.9 GW of installed capacity today.
We can count on a pipeline project for 5.1 GW, a pipeline well spread across our geographies based on two technologies, wind and solar, and with a growing share in battery storage. Part of our pipeline is based on a co-development agreement. This is in particular in the U.S. and Spain. Although we are advancing in the permitting based on our business model, we will move those projects into the construction phase only under certain conditions, among which our route to market is fully secured at a level that can guarantee returns in line with our objectives. Here we are. This is the platform we want to expand from and leverage on. Let's move now to Page 13, a quick summary of our strategy. It's just an update compared to the one presented one year ago.
We are enforcing our value over volume approach in a natural detach on each point. Selective growth focus will be more on Repowering and organic pipeline. We now aim to reach 4.2 GW of installed capacity. We, say, are adopting a more cautious stance on the U.S. while waiting for the right timing, say, just waiting for things to clear up. Investments in EBITDA, we are lowering 2024-2026 CapEx by 20% from EUR 1.2 billion to EUR 1 billion. We are nevertheless targeting EBITDA of more than EUR 600 million in 2026. Say, lower CapEx has said mainly factors in the delay in the FER X Decree rollout, as well as a more cautious stance on U.S.A. Route to market, we confirm our target to have 85-90% quasi-regulated EBITDA, which means backed by CFD or PPA.
Balance sheet, we are committed to keeping an investment-grade rating as we believe the debt capital market is the best option for funding. In the spirit of value over volume, we are targeting an unlevered return for our projects higher than 200 basis points over WACC. As far as geographical diversification, we are more focusing on tier one countries where we aim to keep on growing and consolidating our presence. As far as tier two countries will be, say, taking a more opportunistic approach, even considering maybe some selective disposal. Let's see. Storage and hybridization to increase asset portfolio flexibility. We expect storage to progressively become a new stream of growth, and we are pushing on digitalization as well to optimize asset performance. ESG remains embedded into our business model. Last but not least, shareholder remuneration, As for '25 , EUR 1 as dividend.
We have already executed EUR 0.15 per share through share buyback. Going forward, we confirm our commitment to pay one dividend with the potential upside to be pursued through share buyback based on early performance and prospects. I think still a superior yield compared to most of our peers. Here we show our pipeline and our selective approach on CapEx. We have already said about the lower CapEx and the reasons behind it. In the meantime, we'll keep pushing on the permitting side to make our pipeline advance in size and quality. Based on current industry trend, we switched part of our PV pipeline projects into storage projects, utilizing basically the very same pieces of land and connections. This is in particular in Spain. We can rely on a solid pipeline of Repowering projects, mainly in Italy, but also in France and Germany.
Let's move to Page 15. Here you have a list of assets currently under construction for a total amount of 130 MW greenfield Repowering and our first battery storage plants. Those assets are spread in Italy, France, U.K. In addition to that, we can count on a fully authorized 500 megawatts, which is basically waiting for securing the route to market before taking the final investment decision. Page 16, this is the Italian case for Repowering. As mentioned, Repowering is one of the main drivers of ERG's future growth. This is a study conducted by an independent energy advisor on the potential for Repowering in Italy. According to the study, about 45% of the Italian fleet may be suitable for Repowering, bringing an additional 7.5 gigawatt wind capacity on stream from now to 2030.
Repowering, looking at the system, not just our company specific, could contribute significantly in reaching the targets set out in the national plan. This kind of exercise could be repeated in every country in Europe. Given our experience accumulated now over time and track record, we feel we may play a major role when it comes to Repowering. In fact, moving to the next Page, here you have more details on our Repowering pipeline. Through Repowering, as said millions of times, we enhance the efficiency of the assets by replacing outdated with cutting-edge turbines able to capture wind in a larger span of velocity. This translates into higher productions. Doing this, we can double the installed capacity, triple, more than triple the production, halving the number of towers, and then occupying the same soil. That's why we believe this development should be well accepted by local communities.
I have already said that since 2023, we have brought into operation four projects. Some are still under construction. Some are fully authorized in Italy, but also in France and Germany, and still waiting for the CFD auctions. All in all, we are talking about a sizable pipeline of about 800 MW that are 400 MW on a differential basis. Here, let me again underscore our value over volume approach because this is I need to be clear on this. We need, first of all, to get the tariff and secure the route to market in order to guarantee the returns of the project are consistent with our targets. Now that the FER X Decree is in place in Italy, we envisage a potential opportunity to bring on our projects. Let's move to Page 18 over the business plan period.
We expect to explore more and more the opportunity to increase the flexibility of our asset portfolio by developing projects in battery storage. In addition to our first projects already under construction, which will be concluded on stream in 2025, we can now count on one gigawatt of pipeline between Italy, Spain, France, and the U.K., out of which 120 MW are already well advanced. We still need a regulatory scheme and mechanism to be set out clearly. Let's move to Page 19, ESG. Although from the outside, ESG seems to be losing centrality, we still believe it's important as long as we look at substance over form. ESG is naturally embedded in our business model. As far as planned, we remain focused on net zero by 2040. We will be working on our supply chain as we are already almost net zero on our asset portfolio.
Circular economy is the way through which we are implementing our Repowering projects. As far as engagement, we continue to support local communities and ensure the involvement of local younger generation in educational programs through our ERG Academy. Regarding people, our top priority is the health and safety of our employees. In addition to that, we aim to create a more inclusive ERG. As for governance, we are pursuing, say, a continuous improvement regarding our already rated best-in-class governance with a focus on supply chain to align our suppliers to our key ESG priorities. To sum up, I would say we have a clear ESG strategy based on well-defined targets and KPIs.
Thank you, Paolo. Good afternoon, and thank you for attending this webcast. A driver of our economics is represented by the phasing out of the incentives in the period. It is something well known. The incentive phase-out relates mainly to Italy, but also to our oldest wind farms in France, Germany, and Bulgaria. We can manage and reduce the otherwise increasing merchant exposure through a combination of PPAs and Repowering. First of all, we can secure the sale of old assets through PPAs, both corporates and utilities, maybe of shorter term as five years, as we recently did and announced for 200 TWh with three different counterparties closed between the end of 2024 and Q1 2025. A second option is the Repowering of the asset that become, again, eligible for long-term CFDs after the investment.
As you can see in this chart, most of our 2025 production is hedged through short-term hedging, green certificate, long-term PPAs, and CFDs. A limited portion of our production is still exposed to merchant volatility. That's unavoidable, also considering the intermittent nature of our sources and the structure of the Italian green. Overall, the revenue structure is well secured, which is an important factor for delivering stable results, a distinctive feature in our business model. Also, our debt structure contributes to the stabilization of our results. Indeed, you can see that the interest rates on our gross sustainable debt are entirely fixed. These rates are extremely competitive since we have shifted from no-recourse project financing to Green Bonds in 2019 and 2021 during an ultra-low-rate environment.
Aside from our ample cash availability, our liquid position is further strengthened by a fully enrolled EUR 600 million revolving credit facility whose term and conditions have been improved in 2024, together with its extension to 2027. Fixed and competitive interest rates, together with the non-subordinating nature of our gross debt, allow us to have the cash generated by the group at full disposal. It is also on the basis of this balance sheet strength that our rating has been affirmed at the investment-grade level in 2024 by Fitch. A renewed affirmation by the rating agency is expected next month. In the business plan period, we forecast to reach a net financial position in area EUR 1.9 billion, maintaining our leverage ratios well inside our rating corridor.
Material growth CapEx occurring during 2024 and not contributing EBITDA for a full 12 months, together with lower-than-average wind availability in Q4 last year and fourth months of 2025, have temporarily shrunk the FFO net leverage headroom , which is nonetheless expected to recover in the near term. We confirm our strong commitment to the investment-grade rating. The flexibility in our CapEx plan that is in large portion discretionary and the full ownership of our EU asset give us powerful tools to sustain our rating, also in case of material deterioration of the market scenario. In figures, you can see here at slide 24 where we rank in terms of cost of debt both compared to an average of investment-grade higher-rated European utilities and to a panel of pure risk players.
We project a cost of gross debt that remains moderate in the business plan period thanks to the group DCM funding structure. The cash-generating nature of our business, together with balance sheet solidity and financial charges competitiveness, have been and will remain the main driver of our superior dividend yield compared to the sector. Now, let's move on to comment on the quarterly results. First of all, I would like to focus on the extreme wind drought, which affected the EU since October and which persisted even during the first months of 2025. There is a name to describe this peculiarity, Dunkelflaute, and namely periods with very low wind and solar generation. As you can see in this chart and ranging from all different sources at the international level, these periods of wind droughts already took place in the past but are quite rare.
The map above shows the deviation of wind speed in Q4 in EU against the long-term average in dark blue regions where the negative deviation is larger. It's clearly evident that all the regions where we have our wind farms have been affected by extremely low wind. In Italy, according to Terna, wind production on a like-for-like basis was down 26%. In the chart below, we show what happened at an historical level to our Italian portfolio. As you can see, these extremely poor wind conditions, which took place in 2024, were already experienced 10 years ago. This was a generalized and exceptionally negative trend in EU in the Q1 in the last quarter of 2024. This is continuing in the first two months of this year. Following the premieres on wind availability, the comment on the fourth quarter is quite obvious.
In Q4, we have an EBITDA at EUR 145 million, lower than Q4 last year, mainly due to the extremely poor wind production recorded in Europe, as just commented, only partially offset by production from new capacity in operation. In Italy, EBITDA higher than Q4 2023 by EUR 5 million, mainly thanks to higher capture prices driven by higher hedging prices and green incentive, which is EUR 42 per MWh, and it was while it was null in Q4 2023, and by the contribution from a Repowering asset, a new greenfield plant entering operation during 2024. Results were mostly offset by the extremely low production of the quarter that reached only 780 GWh minus 17% year-on-year, despite the perimeter effect, plus 109 GWh.
A EBITDA abroad set at EUR 64 million in Q4, lower than Q4 2023 by EUR 18 million, mainly driven by wind production below historical trends in Europe and negative price effect, in particular in Spain. Both effects are partially offset by the new asset contribution in France, Spain, and United States. Production abroad in Q4 reached 1.1 TWh , plus 6% year-on-year, mainly due to perimeter effect of 294 GWh, of which 240 GWh in United States, partially offset by the already commented low windiness in the period. Let's comment now on investment. In 2024, we invested EUR 553 million, mainly due to acquisition of wind and solar plants in the U.S. and France. In addition, we completed about EUR 234 million of organic CapEx , of which EUR 135 million in Italy for Repowering and Greenfield Wind Asset, and our first storage plant in Sicily.
The remaining amount refers to construction of new wind parks in France, UK, and the Repowering of a small wind farm in Germany. In the last two years, we invested more than EUR 1 billion, substantially in line with the accumulated EBITDA of the same period. Let's now move on to the financial commenting on other items for profit and loss. In the last quarter of last year, amortization and depreciation are EUR 70 million higher than Q4 2023, mainly due to the new capacity installed. Net financial charges are EUR 9 million versus EUR 2 million in Q4 2023. Financial charges versus banks and bondholders net of liquidity remuneration stand to EUR 4.6 million, plus EUR 2.9 million versus Q4 2023.
The complement to EUR 9 million, EUR 4.4 million are not cash accounting items, such as effects coming from tax equity partnership in the US, figuratively as interest expenses according to IFRS 16 or capitalized interest. T ax rate in the quarter is 31%, higher than 24% of Q4 2023, which included a benefit in Italy. The adjusted net profit of the quarter amounts to EUR 45 million, lower than last year, EUR 77 million, mainly driven by the already commented extremely low windiness in Europe. Finally, let's take a look at the cash flow statement and the net financial position. The net financial debt closed at EUR 1.8 billion, EUR 0.3 billion higher than the end of 2023, mainly driven by a solid cash generation from EBITDA netted by the already commented investment of the period.
The cash financial charges for EUR 17 million, the tax cash out for EUR 39 million, and the net working capital and other items for EUR 75 million, of which EUR 35 million related to one-off taxes on goodwill release, already commented in previous quarters. Finally, we remunerated our shareholders for almost EUR 200 million, through dividend distribution for EUR 152 million, and share buybacks for EUR 47 million.
I leave the floor to Paolo for his final comments on guidance and business plan.
Thank you, Michele. Now, let's see our guidance for 2025, and then I'll wrap up with my final remarks summarizing what we have presented so far. EBITDA for 2025 is expected within the range of EUR 540 million-EUR 600 million. This guidance is factoring the first two months of the year with persisting exceptional wind drought across Europe. Say if we had had either the same wind condition as last year in January and February or in line with historical levels, EBITDA guidance would have been around EUR 30 million-EUR 40 million higher than the one we are proposing today.
We can't rule out there could be some kind of recovery in the months to come, but when setting out the budget with our board of directors, we prefer to be cautious and assuming the P50 wind assumptions for the remaining 10 months of the year. CapEx is expected to be in the range of EUR 190 million-EUR 240 million, as already explained. In 2025, CapEx will be focused on assets currently under construction. Net financial position at year-end is expected in the range of EUR 185 million-EUR 195 million. Coming to the conclusion, Page 13, let me summarize the main key targets. Select the growth, value over volume approach confirmed and reinforced with 20% CapEx cut in 2024-2026, mainly driven, as said, by delays of FER X Decree and a more cautious stance on U.S.
Quasi-regulated business model confirmed, EBITDA higher than EUR 600 million, of which 85-90% secured through CFD and PPA. Strong balance sheet, we are committed to maintaining an investment-grade rating and a competitive cost of financing. This will give us further room to re-leverage and accelerate growth whenever the business environment condition will be there. Dividend policy, we are providing a flexible annual shareholder remuneration with a floor of EUR 1 dividend and the flexibility to allocate extra cash on buyback based on yearly performance and perspective. Thank you very much for listening, and we are now ready to take your questions.
This is the Chorus Call Conference Operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchstone telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and two. We kindly ask to use the handset when asking questions. Anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. First question is from Paul Cabraal, Kempen. Please go ahead.
Yes, hello everyone. Good afternoon, and thank you for taking my question. I have a few of them. First, I noticed a small change in your value creation target. I think last year you were targeting 200 to 400 basis points, and now you are mentioning more than 200 basis points. Have you become more prudent, or on the contrary, do you think there is upside above 400 basis points? Looking at the share buyback, I think you used to have a cap of EUR 0.30 per share for the share buyback. I see no more mention of this cap. Does this mean that you are willing to return to shareholders anything that's not invested? We could see maybe share buyback of around EUR 0.40-EUR 0.50.
Last question, your main shareholder SQ Renewables owns, I think, 77% of voting rights, which I think is enough to initiate a delisting. Considering where the share price stands today, it would be much cheaper to do so than actually building new megawatts. Is it fair to assume that the option of a delisting is on the table? Thank you.
Thank you for your questions. I say the first one, if you look carefully at the webcast presentation, you will notice that 200, the value creation is 200 basis points plus on work. That means 200 basis points is the floor at which we set our other rate for investments. Last year, yes, you are right. We say a range of 200-400 basis points, considering a spectrum of investments ranging from fully secured, then you have to see the floor, 200, to fully merchant, taking the risk of covering the production after the investments. This is not anymore the case. We are just looking at assets in particular, already with a route to market already secured. That is the case also for our Repowering, for instance.
We have, I do not know, 400-500 MW of projects already authorized, but we did not start, or we have not started yet, the construction because we are waiting to secure the route to market. The project, the final investment decision on the project, that is our business model, will be taken after we awarded a CFD or having closed a PPA to secure the production. That's one of the reasons why we had slowed down the CapEx and the deployment of CapEx and megawatts because we were and we are still waiting for the first auction of FER X Decree in Italy, plus the outcome of other auctions in other countries in Europe, apart from the more cautious stance on the U.S. That was the first answer to your question. 200 basis points should be seen as a floor.
The share buyback, yes, last year we specified or we identified a color for shareholder distribution in the region of EUR 1, EUR 1.30, EUR 1 as a dividend, and the potential upside through a share buyback. You are right. You have to see the fact that we have not mentioned a cap as the desire to keep full flexibility in deciding when and how much share buyback to do in case. Yes. It could be even more than the $0.30 per share. The third question is about the listing. I think this question should be addressed to our shareholders and not to the management because, honestly, there is a kind of Chinese wall, at least on these issues, as it's fair and right to be.
For sure, I can say that the current price is not something that makes us happy because we have the perception the stock now trades at a huge discount versus the operational assets, not the whole company, just 25% or 30% discount to the existing operational assets. That's our view based on internal analysis. That's what I can say about that.
I know, fair enough. Thank you very much. You're welcome.
Next question is from Enrico Bartoli, Mediobanca. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, and thanks for taking my question. The first one is relating to the evolution of capacity additions of the plant in 2026. You have 130 MW each hour under construction that you highlighted, and you acquired also some assets in the U.K. I was wondering what you think that would be most likely the evolution for the remaining assets in order to reach the target in terms of geographies, and if you can provide some comment on the pipeline that you have in the U.S. considering the current situation on the regulatory side. The second question is related to batteries. You highlighted that actually you are now definitely considering and more open to investments in this technology, and actually this would be, if I understand well, mostly connected with the existing wind and solar assets.
I was wondering what kind of returns you have in mind in order to take fundamental investment decisions related to those assets, and if you can comment a bit about the regulatory frameworks, particularly the upcoming MACSE market in Italy, and what could be the opportunity also in markets like Spain and Germany. The last one is on asset rotation. It seems that if I'm right, that is the first time that you mentioned this potential. If you can provide some details in terms of the geographies that you think could apply in terms of disposable asset, and if you have any discussions ongoing on this matter. Thank you.
Thank you, Enrico. The first question about the megawatts, yes, you're right. The new target for 2026 is 4.2, and we have already secured, basically, we have roughly 130 MW right now under construction that, coupled with the 43 MW we just acquired in Scotland, say, cover half of the target. Honestly speaking, the pipeline already authorized has got a time to market. T he time needed to bring these projects into operation that is in the range of 18-24 months. All these projects, even in case they will be awarded a CFD in the next auction in Italy or France or Germany, will take time to be built, and they will come probably in 2027. The remaining part in our objective is covered by the co-development agreement, the US, because we still would like to increase our portfolio.
It's true that the new administration doesn't seem very supportive on renewable, but please consider that our business model in the area, in the country, is, let me say, derisked because under the preferential right we have in place with Apex, ERG buys assets or is going to buy assets just under three conditions. One of the first ones, the most important, is the asset should be already operative. We are going to pay the asset in case we find the agreement at the commercial operation date, and the asset has already secured the sales of production under a PPA agreement, and a tax equity scheme is already in place. We do not expect, let me say, in other words, in the U.S., retroactive measures to change the economic case of already existing assets. That's the way we want to grow there in the country.
We are waiting just for the right moment. Just to summarize the answer, half is secured and already under construction in 2025 and 2026. The remaining part should come, at least in our objectives, from the co-development agreement in the U.S. or other very selective M&A in Europe. This gives me the opportunity to answer also the last question because, as I said during the presentation, we are going to.