Good afternoon, this is the Chorus Call Conference Operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Fincantieri First Quarter 2025 Results Conference Call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Should anyone need assistance during the conference call, they may signal an operator by pressing star and zero on their telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Folgiero, Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director. Please go ahead, sir.
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us on Fincantieri's First Quarter 2025 Results Conference Call. We are pleased to present a strong set of results for the first quarter of the year, building on a highly successful 2024. We continue to see the tangible results of our strategy, well ahead of our plan, and are consistently delivering substantial value generation for Fincantieri and its stakeholders. We recorded a solid performance in all of our key financials and metrics, putting the Group firmly on track to achieve its 2025 guidance. Following the recent acquisitions, we launched the new Underwater segment, which marks a key milestone in the Group's industrial vision. Further details will be provided in the upcoming pages. Let's now move to page four for a brief summary of the financial and commercial highlights for Q1 2025.
Revenues increased by 34.5% year-on-year to EUR 2.376 billion, underpinned by a positive contribution from all segments. In particular, shipbuilding, which posted a 39.5% growth compared to the first quarter of 2024, also thanks to the positive impact of the Indonesia contract. Thanks to the virtuous path pursued by Fincantieri over the last years, we are also delivering a significant increase in profitability. EBITDA recorded an impressive growth of 53.5%, reaching EUR 154 million, with margin at 6.5%, a material increase compared to the 5.7% achieved in Q1 2024 and 6.3% reported at year-end of 2024. Our net debt improved significantly compared to the first quarter of 2024 and was marginally better than full year 2024, with a net debt-to-EBITDA ratio of 2.9x . Moving on to our commercial performance, on page five, we achieved impressive results in the first quarter.
We recorded our best-ever quarterly performance, with order intake totaling EUR 11.7 billion, showing an extraordinary growth compared to Q1 2024 and approximately 3/4 of the entire record order intake of 2024, with a book-to-bill ratio of 4.9 times revenues. As a result, the backlog reached EUR 40.3 billion, up 30.2% compared to the full year 2024, with the total backlog reaching an impressive EUR 57.6 billion, and equal to 7.1x full year 2024 revenues. As previously mentioned, starting from January 2025, we have created the new underwater segment to fully unlock Fincantieri's potential in this market. Building on the solid legacy in submarines, effectors, and sonars, Fincantieri is expanding into the broader underwater ecosystem, combining expertise, well-established technologies, and non-conventional innovation to lead the transformation. At the organizational level, the new underwater segment combines all the entities contributing to the underwater dimension under one single roof.
The new segment includes WASS Submarine Systems consolidated at the beginning of 2025, the submarine business previously included in the shipbuilding naval segment, including the U-212 Near-Future Submarine Program for the Italian Navy, Remazel Engineering, formerly part of the Mechatronics cluster, and Unmanned Systems and Underwater Business Line of IDS, previously part of the Electronics and Digital Products cluster. Moving to our order book at page eight, as you can see, as of 31 March 2025, we delivered four units. As we speak, we have a full slate of deliveries scheduled for the medium to long term, offering a clear and profound visibility for the years to come. Our impressive backlog has been further enriched with the order of four jumbo cruise ships for the Norwegian Cruise Line brand, which extends the delivery time to 2036.
As of end of March 2025, cruise accounted for 34 units in portfolio, defense for 29, underwater for four submarines, and offshore for 35, for a total of 102 units, four more units compared to the end of 2024, with a robust backlog of EUR 40.3 billion. Looking ahead, we see further opportunities in strengthening our order intakes, thanks to a commercial pipeline in which we are actively participating, of approximately EUR 21 billion across all business segments. Now, I will end the call over to Giuseppe, who will discuss our financial results in more detail. Please, Giuseppe.
Yes, good afternoon, everybody. Moving on to page 10 and 11, which I'll do together on order intake. Pierroberto has said almost everything. On the deep dive on the EUR 11 billion, we have four ships for Norwegian Cruise Line, four further cruise ships for Viking Cruises, and for this client, we have reached a total number of 22 ships of the same type, built all in Italy, and, of course, the two multipurpose combat vessels for Indonesia. Also, the underwater closed with EUR 84 million in orders, and we expect a further pickup on this segment for the quarters to come.
When we go to page 11, we can see that the total backlog reached almost EUR 58 billion, but we can appreciate also the quality of the numbers because soft backlog, hard backlog increased by EUR 9 billion, outwithstanding the revenues, and also the soft backlog has been increased comparatively to the numbers at the end of 2024, with further opportunities that will quickly become orders in the next quarters. Soft backlog, as well, includes the opportunities we have within the Italian Navy under the Italian Defense Multi-Year Plan of 2024-2026. We expect orders coming in the next quarters and next year. Let's now move to page 12, revenues. EUR 2.4 billion, up 34.5% quarter- over- quarter, with an increase, a strong increase in shipbuilding, which posted a 39.5% increase compared to the same period of last year.
Of course, this has come also from the positive impact of the Indonesia contract. Shipbuilding accounted for almost 72% of Group revenues, cruise 41.1%, and defense increased to 30.3%. We have offshore and specialized vessels that grew almost 7% quarter- over- quarter, and they take roughly 12.5% of the total revenues. Also, for the first time, underwater revenues, and these underwater revenues at this point in time constitute 3.7% of the Group revenues. In this quarter, we have consolidated WASS, starting from mid-January. In this segment, we expect a significant acceleration of revenue growth in the second half of the year, in line with our expected order and delivery schedule. Equipment systems and infrastructure represented 12% of total revenues and delivered an almost 14% year-on-year increase, thanks to the good performance across all clusters.
Substantial, I would say, increase of EBITDA, up 53.5% to EUR 154 million, with a margin at 6.5%. With a growth of 80 basis points year-on-year, and improved also compared to what we reported at the end of 2024. Going through the segments, shipbuilding recorded an EBITDA of EUR 125 million, increasing by 53.3% versus first quarter of last year, with a margin of 6.8%, up 60 basis points. This is a result of the continuous improvement of operational efficiency initiatives and the more profitable business mix that we recorded in this first quarter. Offshore EBITDA, EUR 15 million, increased by almost 17% compared to end of March 2024, with a margin of 4.7%, also improved 40 basis points. Underwater delivered an EBITDA of EUR 60 million and an EBITDA margin of 17%. This testifies to the sector's premium profitability, which is significantly higher compared to our legacy shipbuilding business.
In the equipment systems and infrastructure segment, EBITDA increased by 11.8%, reaching EUR 15 million, with a margin of 4.9%, which is roughly in line with the first quarter of 2024. This is despite the fact that Remazel exited this segment, being now aggregated within the underwater business. On page 14, the leveraging is accelerating. As Pierroberto mentioned before, we are roughly below three times EBITDA, considering last 12 months EBITDA at 2.9 times. Net debt slightly improved compared to the figure as of the end of 2024. The EUR 1.668 billion does not include the proceeds from the capital increase, which were expended in the first quarter through the payment of the purchase price of WASS. Networking capital is broadly in line, I would say, with the end of 2024, with an increase in accounts payable that offsets the increase of the main components of the asset side of the networking capital.
Now, back to Pierroberto for a final wrap-up and some key takeaways.
Thank you. Thank you, Giuseppe. The strong performance achieved in the first quarter of 2025 reinforces the company's growth outlook across its all-core sectors, driven by favorable macroeconomic trends in the cruise ship market, the expected rise in defense spending, and the increasing demand for offshore energy resources. These dynamics create compelling business opportunities in both the wind and the oil and gas industries, as well as new avenues for development in the underwater domain. We have an impressive order book with visibility up to 2036 and a strong commercial pipeline marked by a further acceleration. The cruise business continues to deliver an impressive growth in demand, which we are satisfying with an extension of our delivery schedules over time in order to maintain a stable annual revenue base and a full occupancy for our yards in order to increase our margins and neutralize cash absorption.
In defense, we are witnessing a favorable macro trend internationally that translates into more than EUR 20 billion of potential market opportunities. The execution of our strategy is delivering remarkable results also in Q1 2025. Revenues rose by 34.5% year-on-year. EBITDA recorded an impressive growth of 53.5%, with increasing margin at 6.5%. We are successfully implementing the Group strategy in the underwater domain, further strengthened by the creation of our new underwater segment. Also, thanks to the strong results achieved in Q1 2025, we confirm our guidance for 2025. With that, we are now open to take your questions.
Thank you. This is the Chorus Call Conference Operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and two. We kindly ask you to use handsets when asking questions. Anyone with a question may press star and one at this time. The first question is from Alessandro Pozzi of Mediobanca.
Hi there. Good afternoon, and thank you for taking my questions, sir. I have three. The first one is with regards to the U.S. Last month, President Trump signed an executive order supporting the shipbuilding sector. I was wondering, also in light of the joint statement with the Italian Prime Minister, how that could translate into potential new opportunities for Fincantieri in the short term. The second question is on the impressive order intake that you have recorded in Q1. A lot of orders in cruise. Maybe it's probably a good time for an update on the pricing dynamics in the cruise market, also in light of your push towards the digitalization. I believe the first Navis Sapiens will be delivered by the end of the year, and possibly that would come with maybe higher margins. So maybe your thoughts on margins going forward in cruise.
If I may, last one on the new underwater segment, can you give us a bit more color on the strong progression year-on-year, both in terms of revenues and margins? I suspect it's linked to the 212 program, but any additional thoughts on that would be appreciated. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Thank you very much for your questions. Number one, U.S. I'm sure you have noticed from here, from Italy, that the trip of our Prime Minister Meloni to the U.S. was remarkably successful. If you go through the joint statement of the two presidents, you will appreciate that shipbuilding is expressly mentioned as one of the most explicit areas of cooperation, in particular, considering Fincantieri a partner that could enable and support a kind of renaissance of shipbuilding in the U.S. This is the big picture. I would say that a number of things are following, including executive orders, as well as the creation of a dedicated department and office in order to take care of this shipbuilding renaissance. I think there are three legs of the story here.
One leg is obviously to foster our defense business, and I would say the bottleneck, the performance of the existing defense shipyard in the U.S., including ours in Marinette. Most importantly, there are other two legs. One is the possibility to support not only the defense business, but also the civilian business. In the civilian business, we have a big opportunity because we have a civilian shipyard which is a kind of hybrid shipyard, i.e., working for Marinette and working for the civilian private sector, which is our shipyard in Sturgeon Bay. We are seriously thinking to increase the trooping capacity of that shipyard and also to focus it to new strategic ships, namely icebreakers. We believe that icebreakers will be a new, very strategic kind of product for the U.S.
There is a huge attention for the new Arctic routes, which are increasingly important for the administration. We believe that a good example of technology-driven shipbuilding is icebreakers. We have Vard in Norway, for sure, a center of excellence in terms of design of icebreakers and references, past references for it to happen. The third leg of the story has to do with the possibility to expand, upon the right conditions, our capacity in Florida. Fincantieri has already a presence in Jacksonville, which is, as of today, expected to become a repair and maintenance place for destroyers and frigates, frigates built by Fincantieri when they will be floating, and also destroyers, meaning the existing ships that need repair and maintenance services in that part of the coast.
But we can even think to expand our trooping capacity, our footprint in Jacksonville, which means Florida, which means also availability of workers and the different, I would say, supply chain ecosystem. Those are the three legs of the story. We are very involved and very committed to better evaluate alternative scenarios there. We are very, I would say, positive in that respect. The ultimate results of this analysis will become evident within the end of the year, which is a moment in which we are, in general, and more in general, thinking to reshape our business plan and therefore include possibly extra opportunities, for example, in that market.
Moving to your second question, which has to do with pricing dynamics related and correlated to the peculiar market conditions we are living, let me tell you that kind of price resilience, quote-unquote, it is what we are pursuing from the very beginning. This kind of posture is associated with a number of other initiatives and measures we are undertaking in order to enhance profitability, decrease execution risks, and maximize all the opportunities for increasing margins. The answer is yes. There is a dynamic on the pricing, but it is not alone. It is in association with other measures. All in all, it is the engine behind the enhancement of profitability and marginality you are experiencing in our numbers in the recent quarters. It is not by choice or by fortune that margins are increasing.
It is a combination of simultaneous big efforts, including the effort of rebalancing the bargaining power in a moment in which it is, I would say, possibly doable. Moving to your third question, underwater, let me say that it will be the name of the game during our Capital Market Day event to be held in Milan next week, precisely on the 19th. I will, and I am encouraging you all to take part to that event because it has been expressly intended to give as much colors as possible in order for you to better appreciate which is the size of the opportunity. Let me anticipate that all the, I would say, products, including the existing ones, are proving to be in very good shape, specifically in terms of commercial prospects and outlook.
Let me touch base for a moment on the submarines, which is for sure a legacy product, which is, in a sense, covering the vast majority of the existing backlog and revenues. Let me tell you that we are involved in multiple opportunities. We made a specific announcement for the Philippines, for example. We are, at the same time, involved in Poland. We are, at the same time, involved in Greece. We are, at the same time, involved in Indonesia. Just to tell you how much our product is in terms of quality and characteristics of the product and in terms of reliability of Fincantieri product, as we were anticipating since a couple of years, underwater will be very important, starting from today, starting from the defense, starting from the submarines, but not only, but not only.
If you want to better understand the potential we intend to unlock, I strongly encourage you to join us in Milan next week.
Absolutely. I will see you there next week. Just a follow-up on your remarks. Should we expect an updated business plan for the group level before year-end?
We are absolutely working in that sense. We want to also evaluate which are the impacts for Fincantieri of the new, I would say, European and obviously Italian investment program in defense. I think it is for sure one of the discontinuities we should reassess in our business plan. I think our business plan was very ambitious, the one we issued at the end of 2022. We are so satisfied with that because we are achieving every milestone in due time or even in better fashion, I would say. I think it's time for us to reassess the defense potential on the one end. On the other end, it's time also for us to rebaseline the next five years, even if the business plan is 100% achieved.
The reason why we are waiting for the right moment, it is I'm a great believer that business plan, once you issue, they are written in the stone. So when I make public a number, in particular, at year two, year three, year four, I want the number to remain until you achieve it. I don't like the replanning because it's a way to reconfuse the waters. I like clean waters when it comes to long-term projections. I think there are extra opportunities that are important enough for us to pursue a replanning exercise.
Thank you very much. Very clear.
The next question is from Antonio Gianfrancesco Wintermonte.
Good afternoon, and thank you for taking my question. I have two, please. The first one is on the net financial position EBITDA guidance for 2025. You have confirmed the guidance for a stable evolution of debt ratio at 3.3 times as of the end of 2024. In light of the results you are achieving, this target seems to be, let's say, a bit conservative. I was wondering if you could give us a little more color on what are the main factors driving the setting of this target and whether you expect any debt pressure during the year. My second is about commercial momentum in the defense segment. How do you see development in this market? In particular, what are your expectations about the tender in which you are in the running right now?
The one for the frigate to the Norwegian Navy, in which you are on the short list, and the one for the two submarines for the Philippine Navy in cooperation with ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems. Thank you.
On the net financial position side, the story is always the same. When it comes to cash, we like to see how the year is developing. There are certain events that we want to materialize. We are, I would say, monitoring those events. We believe that, as you said, the existing guidance is very achievable, I would say. We are very comfortable with that target. There is always the possibility that once we have, I would say, 100% clarity on certain matters, we will be more than happy to improve the guidance, as we have been constantly doing in the recent past. Giuseppe, please.
To your specific question, do we expect debt pressure? No. As a matter of fact, the interest rate environment is becoming more and more positive. We do not expect any pressure on debt or interest costs whatsoever. We are pretty, as Pierroberto said, the target was conservative, but we are pretty confident on the target itself and maybe on a revision of the target throughout the year.
Moving to your second question with respect to defense and short-term opportunities, there are several opportunities that are there. The decision process of clients, as usual in this kind of business and in similar businesses, are going by stages, going by phases. We are well positioned on the initiative you are mentioning, but not only those. Let me be a little bit scaramantic. I do not want and I do not need to give you more color about the Philippines and Norway, apart from confirming that we are well positioned. I want to do more. I want to tell you that there are other opportunities in which we are very well positioned. Again, there is no fast-track decision in defense. It is a business in which you have to cultivate initiatives. You have to have several at the same time because they do not go necessarily fast-track.
The very good news is that overall, the magnitude of the opportunities are big and increasing. Fincantieri product is appreciated for its value for money proposition. The fact that we work in the private, civilian, and defense at the same time provides us with a level of competitiveness, which is proving to be very important because it is coupled with very well-proven product. Tangible, measurable, touchable existing platforms. Most importantly, timing. Timing. In the current situation, in the current geopolitical/emotional situation, end users want fast deliveries. What Fincantieri can put on the table is very good product, very competitive price, and a schedule which is faster than the other from time to time, simply because we are a large setup with biorhythms that are the biorhythms of the private, civilian sector.
I.e., if we need to run like devils, we are trained to be faster than the others.
Very clear. Thank you.
The next question is from Emanuele Gallazzi of Equita.
Good afternoon, everybody. Let's say a couple of questions left. One on the offshore business and the other one on cruise. Starting with the offshore, basically, what we have seen is an additional 40 basis points margin expansion, I would say a healthy path since the launch of this business unit. Can you just share with us your expectation for the offshore business going forward and maybe an idea on the commercial pipeline for this division? The second one is on the cruise business. Basically, we have seen some, let's say, innovative orders like the one for Viking. I was wondering if you are seeing, let's say, an acceleration of demand for green or low-emission ships. Where do you see yourself in the competitive landscape for these ships? Thank you.
Very much. On commercial outlook on offshore, let me, I would say, a little bit contradict you in the sense that as of today, it's a capacity-driven business. It is not a matter of where the market is going, but it's rather a market of where capacity is going. If we would have had more capacity, we would have been in the position to sell much more. The issue is whether and under which condition capacity can be increased. Also in this respect, we are very well positioned because we have two engines, "two production engines" . One is Romania, and the other is Vietnam. Norway is the way we go for the outfitting. It is the place in which we take care of the engineering, so the very beginning, and then the commissioning and the final outfitting. Therefore, Norway is not necessarily bottleneck.
We have a very large setup in Romania where we have something like 6,000 people working on the steel fabrication, erection, all the way to achieving the blocks, i.e., portion of the ship that then we deliver either to Italy if they are cruise ships or to additional activity and then to Norway. I believe that the visibility is so big that it's more a matter of even deciding to increase capacity. Vietnam could be the place. The fact that we have such a well-proven industrial setup in Vietnam, it's a big opportunity because Vietnam is a place in which you can expand capacity, you find workers, and we are very satisfied with the performance of our people and of our shipyard in Vietnam. I wouldn't put the accent on the demand, which is there, stable and visible.
I would rather put the accent on capacity because it could be an extra source of growth in case we decide to put more skin in the game. Green shapes in the cruise. I believe that in the last three years, we have definitely positioned Fincantieri at the forefront of all the innovation places in terms of new propulsion systems and not only. I believe that as of today, vis-à-vis the competition, we can provide a full set of solutions ranging from the, I would say, drop-in fuels, moving to meaning the renewable diesel HVO. I would say, absolutely in first line in LNG and methanol, which are the two LNG, more methanol less, but are the first two alternative fuels. We have occupied also the third big topic, which is the marinization of hydrogen, which we are pursuing in two ways.
One, transforming onboard natural gas into hydrogen and then giving hydrogen to fuel cells. Two, onboarding hydrogen and then giving it to solid oxide for fuel cells, which is the solution we have promoted in Miami a few weeks ago, which is truly transformational because it is addressing and killing the biggest issue of hydrogen at sea, which is the existence, or better, the non-existence of distribution facilities, of distribution pipelines, of available storage of hydrogen in the right places in the different harbors and ports. Let me add another layer, which is enabling indirectly also energy transition, which is what we are doing for the digitalization of the ship. Digitalization and energy transitions are hand in hand. What we are doing with our new product, which we called Navis Sapiens, it is a real thing. It is real stuff.
Also in this respect, I believe we are pioneering and occupying the competitive space with a big acceleration vis-à-vis the past.
Thank you very much, very clear .
The next question is from Luca Ferrani of Jefferies.
Good afternoon, and thanks for taking the time. I have a few questions as well, if we can take them one at a time. Just the first one was just a follow-up on offshore. I think we were getting the sense that potentially there would be actually a slowdown in demand when we look at U.S. offshore wind. I know you're not necessarily in that segment, but generally what we hear on offshore wind and seeing kind of the order intake be a bit lower year on year last year. It was interesting to hear the comment. My question is, why do you think we're not seeing as big of a backlog if it's very much capacity-driven business compared to, for example, what we see in cruise where there are clear signs that the demand is there? Thank you.
If I properly understood your question, you want more color about which are the possible, which is the demand in the offshore business. First of all, offshore is not only wind. Wind is one of the possible opportunities. Oil and gas is picking up again, remarkably, and will more and more. The third is cable layers. It is not wind farms. I just mentioned to you, for example, this vision on icebreakers. Just to tell you how much there are a combination of different, I would say, market trends behind our know-how in offshore vessels. There is then an additional one, which is somehow at the border between offshore and underwater. Also, the underwater dimension, the expansion of the underwater dimension, means, among other things, also a new demand for surface ships taking care of offshore operations, either white ships and grey ships.
Grey ships, sorry. White ships, meaning there is a big unattended demand for vessels taking care of the repair and maintenance of underwater cables. It is one of the priorities of the European Union that is even thinking to create some incentives and some facilitations for new investments. Also in terms of grey ships, even the navies are thinking of these new surface ships, which are made of steel, 90 meters, with all the 80 meters, with all the typical stabilizing systems that are used in the offshore construction because they need to oversee and coordinate military offshore operations. Also this is a new concept, which is already much more than a concept.
It's something we are taking care of in terms of engineering, in terms of requirements that the navy is thinking of, kind of multiple different drones to be carried by this kind of ship, either underwater drones or ROVs, wired ROVs for underwater operations, de-mining. All in all, this is, I think, a good set of examples related to why the demand is so big and the capacity is the real issue.
Thank you. Yeah, that's really clear. Another one was just on the phasing of revenues for this year. Q1 is usually the weakest quarter, and then we see kind of acceleration throughout the year into Q4. I guess you're already on quite elevated levels in Q1 that would put you potentially way above the guidance if we follow the usual pattern. Is there anything to highlight on the phasing of revenues for the quarters this year?
I would not project the performance of the first quarter arithmetically by four. Sorry for being so blunt. I would typically never suggest to approach a business made of investment decision of clients as a linear business. It is never linear. My point is that when I go for planning, I like companies driven by order intake and projects acquisition. I like a planning whereby the revenues are at least equal, or better, the order intake, i.e., the acquisitions are at least equal to revenues because this is meaning that we are substituting backlog in an accretive way, where accretive means growing. I believe that we have already achieved this status, which is a desirable one. We are already there. I think we can do better. At the same time, we have a backlog of EUR 57 billion, which is, I would say, the record ever.
For the rest of the year, there are other opportunities for sure. But again, capacity is the name of the game. I believe we are in very good shape. Let me say the big task is not necessarily to grow, but it is to take advantage of this saturation of shipyards, in particular in cruise, for example, in order to translate volumes into bottom line and bottom line into cash flows. The more we have long-term visibility, the more the focus is not growing for the sake of growing, but is how to take advantage of this, I would say, very positive market conditions and backlog stratification in order to give satisfactions in terms of translation into bottom line and cash flow.
Very clear. Thank you.
The next question is from Gabriele Gambarova of Intesa Sanp aolo.
Yes. Good evening, Giuseppe. Just a few questions. The first one is on this industrial cooperation agreement with the ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems. I was wondering if it's something that we should think of only relating to this opportunity in the Philippines that appears to be material, or it can become something, let's say, wider, more strategic. In general, I would ask you what are your thoughts about ThyssenKrupp? What's the situation? I know that it should go on the market, be listed, but apparently there is no, let's say, industrial partner as far as I know. I ask you some more color on this situation. Thank you.
Thank you for your question. TKMS is a very good company. They have probably the best available product on the market in terms of performance. In terms of submarines are on top of being, I would say, safe and secure. The two very important dimensions are the stealthiness and the endurance. In terms of stealthiness and endurance, it is a very sophisticated submarine. And TKMS has a very strong brand in the sense that they have been associated with this kind of submarine since many years. The collaboration with Fincantieri is very powerful simply because we know each other since 25 years. Obviously, we have very, very long roots as well in this industry. We have been building submarines, tens of submarines for tens of years. In the last 25 years, we have, in a sense, overlapped our experiences.
Today, Fincantieri is a very valid alternative to TKMS product more and more. The cooperation is the name of the game because we can support each other in the key geographies, and we can support each other also in terms of production capacity, which, again, when the market is very high, is what you have to think about and prepare to do. That is what we are doing with them. Philippines, it's a very, I would say, indicative and I would say illustrative example of this win-win collaboration, how to join forces and how to maximize production capacity is the name of the game and is the future of the collaboration.
We have very, very, I would say, clearly and even vocally expressed our readiness to explore any possible collaboration from commercial collaboration onwards with them because we were sure, as we are sure, that there is a big market in front of us, and it is in the mutual interest to find a setup whereby we do not leave business on the table and we join forces in order to procure that this very well-proven product is the, and being the best available technology, is the submarine of choice for navies that want to embark into the underwater dimension.
Okay. Thank you very much. My second and last question is on the Q1 results, if I may, and it regards the contribution of this important, let's say, contract in Indonesia for revenues and EBITDA. I was wondering if you can be more precise on the contribution, at least in terms of revenues, and if this event was factored in your fiscal year 2025 guidance. Thank you.
Revenues recognition for the Indonesia project was obviously included in our projection for 2025, included in the guidance. The order of magnitude of the project, we do not like to disclose these kinds of numbers because I do not think there is a lot of added value. What is very important is that we have full visibility of those revenues, so there is no risk of the revenue recognition of Indonesia simply because the contract is in full force, down payment is there, all the signatures are there, all the relevant authorizations from the Italian government for export license are there. There is no construction risk, which is the typical risk you anyway incur despite you have authorization and contract in force. Once you have all the paperwork done, this transaction is, I would say, truly de-risked vis-à-vis ordinary projects. It is a very good deal, very important deal.
As you may remember, not only are we selling these ships, but we are also at the same time having an equivalent order from the Italian Navy to substitute the two PPAs that we are selling. It is truly a deal having a short-term effect and a long-term effect, and we are on top of it, and I do not see any specific risk to disclose.
Thank you very much.
Gentlemen, there are no more questions registered at this time.
Thank you very much. Thank you for your attention.
Thank you.
Bye now.
Thank you very much. Bye-bye. Take care.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining the conference. It's now over. You may disconnect your telephones.