Good afternoon, this is the Chorus Call Conference Operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the GVS Q1 2024 Results Conference Call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be a Q&A session. For operator assistance via web call, please press the headset icon on the bottom left side of your screen. For conference call assistance, please press star zero on your telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Massimo Scagliarini, CEO. Please go ahead, sir.
Thank you very much. Good afternoon and good morning to everybody, and welcome to the Q1 result presentation of the GVS Group. A quick snapshot on the number. I'm very happy to show you a 2% growth compared with the Q1 last year. Why I'm so happy, even if 2% is not a crazy number? Because last year in Q1, our group was still at full speed. De-stocking impacted us by the end of Q2 and fully on Q3. So having an improvement compared with last year full speed, to me, is a very clear signal that we finally are out of the de-stocking situation in our market. So that, to me, is a very positive sign. EBITDA. EBITDA improved nearly 8%, and this is confirming that we're doing our own job.
So we'll keep working on efficiency, industrial efficiency, continuous improvement plan, and this is bringing our result to 23.4% versus 21.7%, and is already, I believe, Marco, the fourth or fifth quarter in a row where we have a continuous improvement in our marginality. Net income. Net income, and this is the first time that we introduced the net income in our presentation, but later on, Marco, we'll explain you why. Anyway, improved also nearly 8%, reaching EUR 9.5 million, generating nearly EUR 10 million cash in the quarter. Net financial position, slightly improved to 2.63, keeping the right path versus our target at the end of the year. Now a quick view by division. Again, as I anticipated, we have a 0.3+ positive in healthcare.
Again, it's not a huge number, but to me, compared with the full speed quarter of the last year, is a very clear signal that finally we are out of the de-stocking in our markets. Energy & Mobility, -3.2%. In reality, this number doesn't reflect the situation. Our order book is positive. Industrially speaking, we have accumulated backlog that we will recover in the Q2 and in the Q3, but again, Guido, later on, will give you some more flavor on these two. Health & Safety, very nice, +14%, but it's not only this. One week ago, one of our biggest competitors in the blasting industry communicated to the market that they lost their NIOSH certification. So we are experiencing, and we will experience for the next months or two, a very important growth in our order intake, in this specific sector.
Adjusted EBITDA, again, as I mentioned before, nice growth of nearly 8% from EUR 22.6 to 24.3 million, bringing our EBITDA to EUR 23.4 million. Net Financial Position, as I anticipate, a nice decrease to EUR 2.63 million. Now I leave the speech to Guido that will give you some more granular vision on how we have reached this result more in detail. Please, Guido.
Thank you, Massimo, and good afternoon to everyone. So let's now comment the variance analysis on Q1 2024 sales. If you exclude the FX negative effects of about EUR 2 million, we have almost 2% growth organic. This is the result of the combination of volume growth and price growth. So it's very important to highlight the volume growth because we were used to comment in the last quarter a decline in volumes that was offset by price increases. This quarter, we have this rebound in terms of volume together with the structural price increase that we have for the quarter. And then it's important because it is the first sign of volume recovery that Massimo was referring to that we expected we'd further accelerate across the year. If we move to the next slide, you see the performance of the single divisions.
So starting from Healthcare and Life Sciences, let's say last year grow 0.3%, compared to the previous year. The segment, the most relevant segment, the liquid segment, posted a solid +1.4% organic. Followed, then, Air & Gas is +6.2% organic compared to the previous year. And both are offsetting a decline we experienced in the laboratory segment. This, we lost approximately EUR 1 million in sales compared to the Q1 of 2023. And this was mainly related to the membrane business. We have, in particular, two clients that had very strong sales in the, say, accumulated stock in the Q1 of last year. So, we can assume we can consider this decrease as the last tail of the de-stocking effect. If we move to Health & Safety, the growth is extremely positive, +14% organic, +12.4% reported. And this is, further accelerating.
We see a very strong order momentum also in the month of April and May. So we absolutely expect this trend is gonna continue in the next quarter, also potentially benefit from further boost that Massimo were mentioning before. Finally, Energy & Mobility. The reported growth, organic growth, is -3.2%. Here it is important to highlight that this performance is linked to some delay in production due to the change of the mix of the product. So we had a strong order, and we could have closed the quarter with positive sales, and we expect to recover the sales we've lost this quarter in the following quarters. So we still see the Energy & Mobility full year sales growing compared to 2023. I think now I hand over to Marco.
Hello everybody. Nice to be here. Let's move to the financials. First of all, let's look at the Adjusted EBITDA margin, the quarterly trend. You see on the right of the slide, 23.4 Adjusted EBITDA in 2024, plus 170 basis points year-over-year. The same trend we experienced in Q4 and in Q3 2023. You see in Q4 2023, we improved versus the previous year by around 400 basis points. In Q3 2023, we improved by around 600 basis points. So we are steadily, continuously, constantly improving our Adjusted EBITDA margin. And how? You know, thanks to pricing, but also thanks to industrial efficiencies. When we say industrial efficiencies, we mean we are reducing the manufacturing cost. How? Thanks to insourcing, which means we are insourcing the production of components which were previously given to third parties.
Thanks to the footprint reshaping, which means that we move the production from one plant to another without losing sales. By doing that, we decrease both fixed costs and variable costs. It's important to highlight that this trend is expected to continue also in the remaining part of the year. Now we can move to the following slide to focus on Q1 2024 versus Q1 2023. We improved by 170 basis points the EBITDA margin, but we improved also in absolute terms from 22.6% to 24.3%, so around EUR 1.7 million more. The negative impact of the effects was generated by the US dollar. You know that around 45% of our sales are generated into the NAFTA region. The US dollar went down versus the euro by around 1%, and the Chinese currency went down by 6%.
We have almost around 10% of our sales generated in the Chinese currency. The volume effect. So the very good news from that is, volume impact is positive. Guido said that we improved the impact of the volumes on the revenues was 0.7, which translates into 0.3 to 0.4 operating impact on the EBITDA. But here you see EUR 1 million. Why? Because we have also a positive mix. Because year-over-year, we said we improved net of the effects by 2 points year-over-year, but these 2 points are coming from respirators. And you know that most of them are produced by RPB. And RPB EBITDA margin is around 50%, so more than the average of the group, which is 23% now. So it's moving the production from other plants to RPB means that we improve by around 30% our EBITDA margin.
30% of 2 million is EUR 700,000. So the mix is EUR 700,000 on top of the volume impact already described by Guido. Then price impact is EUR 1.2 million, of which EUR 0.7 million is the carryover of last year, increasing. And EUR 0.5 million is the further pricing which we implemented in the Q1 of the year. And then here you have other, which is negligible, closer to zero, even though here you have positive manufacturing costs going down, the carryover of last year actions, and we have an increase in the labor cost. Labor cost because we are investing money into strengthening the staff in the HQ, for example, finance, legal, HR. But we are also reinforcing marketing and sales departments.
And then, as Massimo said, for the first time, we are also showing you the trend of the Adjusted Net Income because we want to make clear also how this KPI moves quarter by quarter. You see here the Adjusted Net Income, which you will find also in the appendix. You have in 2023 around EUR 6 million Adjusted Net Income. You have in 2024 EUR 30 million. So you, you have an improvement of EUR 7 million, even though the Adjusted EBITDA, we saw before, went up by around EUR 1.7 million. So how is it possible that we are improving by around EUR 7 million the Adjusted Net Income? Let me show you why. First of all, let me, let me show you the appendix of the P&L. You see the EUR 6 million, the EUR 6.1 million, and the EUR 13 million I was mentioning before.
So you see here the column of the adjusted results. So these are the figures I, I was commenting. And then how is it possible that we are improving by EUR 7 million? Let me show you why. Because the adjusted net income is affected also by the effects, gains, or losses that are generated by the intercompany loans we have in dollars. Because you know that we are quite dedicated to M&A. We made large investments in 2021, in 2022. We made investments through the controlling companies, not through GVS Italy, but through the subsidiaries. In order to fund these acquisitions, the GVS company, GVS Italy, lent some money to the controlling companies and lent this money in dollars. So you see here at the end of 2023, at the end of December 2023, you see here the amount of the intercompany loans in dollars.
At the end of the year, we converted the loans in dollars into euros. You have, we had EUR 193 million because the exchange rate at the 31 December was 1.1045. At the end of the Q1, again, have to translate the intercompany loans, the EUR 212 million, into euros using the exchange rate of that day, of the 31 March. You see there is an improvement for us of 2%, which translates into EUR 4 million gain. 192 multiplied 2%, you have the EUR 4 million, which means that now we go back to the slide about the Adjusted Net Income. It means that we have to adjust those two figures by the impact of the effects on the intercompany loans.
If we adjust, so if we remove this impact, which is a non-cash item, you end up with a 9.2 in 2023 and a 9.9 in 2024, which means that improve our performance, removing the impact of the effects, by 7.7%. It's not by chance that also the adjusted EBITDA is improving year-over-year by 7.7%. It's important to work with this parameter also because the adjusted net income, excluding the effects, gains, losses, gives you a good proxy of our ability to generate cash. So we always say that if the working capital is stable, if the level of the CAPEX is ordinary, so if we have no extraordinary CAPEX, we generate each quarter more or less EUR 10 million. That's why you have exactly more or less EUR 10 million.
Now we go to the next financial position because Massimo already commented that we improved our adjusted leverage ratio from 2.65 to 2.63. The Q1 is usually not favorable in terms of cash generation. Last year, we increased. Which is bad news. We increased our net financial position by EUR 12 million mainly because our working capital went up by EUR 20 million last year in the Q1. In 2024, we were good at minimizing that impact. The working capital went up by EUR 5 million. So it's a slight increase of the working capital, which is not good. We are going to recover that impact by Q2 or at least by Q3. In Q1, CAPEX, you see 9.4. Why? Because we have, as usual, our more or less 6% ordinary CAPEX, so more or less EUR 6 million.
On top of that, the CAPEX for the new plant in China, around EUR 3.5 million. And then you see the leasing renewal. Leasing renewal. When we renew or we sign new leasing contracts, we need to book, according to the IFRS 16, the liabilities, which are liabilities that are calculated, that are equal to the cost of the rent for the whole duration of the contract. Usually, the impact of the leasing renewal in a quarter is EUR 2 to 3 million. We renewed a lot of contracts in the Q1, so the impact was higher than that it is usually. It was EUR 2 million more.
So you see that instead of generating EUR 10 million, as I said just at the slide before, we have a flat, more or less, Net Financial Position because the EUR 10 million that we normally generate in a quarter were offset by EUR 2 million more lease renewals, EUR 3.5 million of extraordinary CAPEX, and by around EUR 5 million increase in the Net Working Capital. And now it's time for the.
But if you allow me, Marco, I think it's also nice to notice that the leverage is decreasing at 2.63. And this is because the EBITDA margin is improving.
Is improving.
And so it's not only the work that we're going to do in our working capital, etc., but the constant job that we're doing in our EBITDA will accelerate the reduction of our leverage.
Let me say that this trend was foreseen by us. We are completely aligned with our guidance, which means the 2 leverage ratio at the end of the year.
By the end of the year, yes.
Now it's time for the conclusion. I gave the floor to Massimo.
Yes. Quick outlook on the next few quarters. So Q2, as we mentioned before, we will keep recovery, our growth. So we are expecting the volume to grow again on the Q2. But the most significant growth and the most significant acceleration is expected in Q3. And this because Q3 last year, we were deeply impacted by the de-stocking situation. Profitability, as I just mentioned, we are doing our own job. So quarter by quarter will improve constantly as we indicated guidance. We are not reviewing any guidance right now. So they are fully confirmed as we anticipated at the beginning of the year. I believe that now we can move to the Q&A section.
Thank you. This is the Chorus Call Conference Operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. To enter the queue for questions, please click on the Q&A icon on the left side of your screen and then press the Raise Your Hand button. Please do not mute your microphone locally, and when prompted, make sure you turn on your webcam in the pop-up window. If you are on the phone instead, please press star one on your keypad. The first question is from Anna Frontani of Berenberg. Please go ahead.
Buonasera, Massimo, Marco, Guido. Two questions from me. The first one, actually, for Marco. If you could please give us some color on the working capital dynamics in Q1. Second question actually relates to a press release that you issued in late April on the diaphragm for the green hydrogen production. If we could have some details on the investment link with that, the timing, and what kind of opportunity this could represent for GVS. Thank you.
Okay. So, Anna, the first question was about the capital dynamics, the working capital dynamics. We said that working capital went up by EUR 5 million, which means which is given by stock, EUR 1 million, and receivables, EUR 4 million. This tends quite normal, Anna. It's an expected so expected rebound of Q4 performance. Our target for Q2 is to recover the EUR 1 million stock in Q2. And if not possible in Q2, we will for sure do that by Q3. And the same is for the receivables, which went up by EUR 3.5 million. I cannot that even if I built the net financial position guidance, assuming working capital almost flat, I cannot tell you that or I can tell you that we are working to further reduce working capital versus the end of 2023. But this is not embedded into the guidance. The second question was about the green hydrogen.
Yeah, the Green Hydrogen, I believe, Guido.
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the question. We believe this is a very nice opportunity for the group. We announced this investment that will take place between 2024 and 2025 and will allow us to build this new facility for the production of this diaphragm. This diaphragm is a critical component for the cell stack in an alkaline electrolyzer for the production of green hydrogen. We see this market as very strong growth potential. And the fact that we started developing this product four, five years ago, working with a prominent player in this field for the construction of these electrolyzers. And we are very proud that this is a fully internal development within GVS.
So this is a testament of our capability in terms of work with the membrane technology and be able to reach and to produce a product that, according to the first feedback we got from our client base, it's extremely well performing. So what's going to happen is the line will be ready in mid-2025, and then we will start the commercial development of the diaphragm. And so we expect it's going to generate the first revenue starting from 2026. Then.
So in reality if I can interrupt you, we already generate revenue with the diaphragm because we can produce the diaphragm in our standard machine. We just don't want to use our standard machine because it's a completely different chemical mix. And then cleaning the machine of the membranes, it's very complex. But for certain customers that they want to test the industrial run of our diaphragm, we have produced the industrial run in our existing machine. So some revenue has already been certified. Then, of course, the full impact is expected for when the new line will be completed, and so by 2025, 2026, something like this.
We expect a gradual ramp-up of revenues. Of course, it will depend also on the pace at which these new electrolyzers will be installed. But we think this is a very interesting opportunity. The market is very concentrated. If we think about this high-quality diaphragm, there are just two producers, and we are one of the two currently in the market. So we think there are very interesting opportunities to develop and realize revenues on that. And the CAPEX, this EUR 4 million of CAPEX associated, could be really negligible compared to the return that we can achieve.
The most important thing is that besides whatever will be the deployment of this market, there is already an existing market that is more than happy to use our Diaphragm for the performance that we bring to the market. So on our end, we have already a very nice feedback with the existing market. Even if this will not be the future of the hydrogen, the existing market is already super interesting. Then, of course, if the hydrogen really goes in the direction that many foresee, well, that can be really a game changer into the specific division.
Thank you very much. Very clear.
You're welcome.
The next question is from Matteo Bonizzoni of Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thank you. Two questions. The first one is on the trading performance, which you are seeing on your business. In the Q2, you have already said that you expect a gradual acceleration of the revenues in the next quarters. Can you maybe be a little bit more specific on what you are seeing on the three segments in this Q2? Now we are mid-May, so you should have almost complete visibility for all the quarter, including the one point-out month we have done and also maybe the order for the remaining part of the quarter.
And the second question is relating to the margin performance. Your guidance for the year is to increase the margin by 100 to 200 basis points year-on-year. In the Q1, despite the revenues were flat, basically, you have improved year-on-year by 170 basis points. So maybe the question is, if there is more operating leverage, as we should expect, can we maybe expect you to be able to hit close to the high part of the range? Thanks.
Well, in terms of the market, the expectation that we have in the Q2 is a gradual volume recovery. The real acceleration will be in Q3. And this because, as I mentioned in the beginning of the conference, Q1 and Q2 in last year, they were full speed. The real de-stocking started happening in Q3. And, let me say, the end of Q2 in last year. So gradual volume recovery for Q2 is more correct, and strong acceleration in Q3, I would say, is the correct expectation and the right wording.
In terms of divisions, I think that what we saw in the Q1 is already a good picture in what we expect in the second. In a way that the safety, we expect we continue to grow at what perform. We are seeing a gradual stabilization of the healthcare, while on the mobility, we can start recovering the volume that we were not able to produce in the Q1.
Exactly.
So basically, the trend. And the second question was about the EBITDA performance. If I have understood well your question, you are saying you improved your Q1 performance EBITDA margin by 170, and your guidance is saying between 100 and 200. So you are right. In the Q1, it's a fact. We are closer to the upper part of the range. And it also true what you said, that we were able to achieve that result, notwithstanding a low impact coming from operating levels. So you are right. Now we decided not to change our guidance, which does not mean that I'm not targeting to do even better than our guidance. It's now a little bit too early. So the signs, early signs from Q1 are very positive. But let's have this discussion later on, if you don't mind.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
The next question is from Emanuele Gallazzi of Equita. Please go ahead.
Yes. Hello, everybody. Thank you for taking my questions. I will start with a follow-up on the EBITDA margin, if you can just provide an update on the efficiency action taken and the footprint optimization. The second one is more on the Healthcare and Life Sciences. You provided, let's say, a very detailed outlook for the Q2. I just would like to have, let's say, a little bit more information about the kind of feedback that you're getting from your client in order to understand and to better understand the order momentum on this specific division. And the last one is a clarification on the Health and Safety business. Can you just elaborate a little bit more on the contract lost by your competitor and what could be the potential benefit for your business unit? Thank you.
Okay. The first question was about a follow-up on the EBITDA margin on the industrial efficiencies.
Yeah. In this case, the big chunk of the job have already been concluded in the sense that all the machine of Bloomer have been moved to Findlay, and all the machine of Findlay have been moving to Monterrey. We have internalized a number of equipment that were outside. But in reality, all this job has been done last year. And so through this year, we will see slowly, step by step, the return of all the activity that we have been doing the last year. So let's say the big job has been done. Now we have to collect the result. And this is what you see also in the result of the Q1.
Yes. Because even if we do nothing, we have anyway a carryover impact, positive carryover impact. When I made comments on the Q1, I said that we benefited of EUR 1 million carryover just because the efficiency in Q1 was equal to the quarter before. This does not translate into that we are not further improving the manufacturing costs.
The second one was.
What's your feedback from clients on the healthcare?
Life science?
Yeah. Life science or. I think both. Both Healthcare and Life Sciences.
Generally speaking, again, and that was related to my comment at the beginning of the presentation, so happy to see a 2% growth. I agree that it's not a huge number, but in reality, it's what I am listening from the market and from the customers. So the de-stocking is finished, and now we are returning to normality. Then you have a few spots that are still slow, but it's really not significant versus the full amount of our markets.
And so again, we see on the Life Sciences a negative number, but it's, again, a question of representation. And because one customer specifically was really doing a huge stock because they were switching from one line to another line. And so this is the most significant view that represents this -11%. That, at the end of the story, is EUR 1 million over the full amount of the division, so. And so, no, I am absolutely positive. Again, it's something that we'll be adjusting, and we will have the full vision in Q3.
In general, if you want to comment this, our client's stance is to get back slowly to start reordering, but without trying to keep the stock as thin, as lean as possible. Exactly the same that we are doing on our stock. And so we expect this exit from the de-stocking we were expecting. We still expect this exit from the de-stocking need to be a gradual process. So what we need to monitor, carefully monitor, is the continuous growth quarter by quarter of the sales volume that we expect and will be the sign that this is happening.
Anyway, the vision that we have is that Q3, it will be net and very visible, the volume growth.
The last question was related to the NIOSH certification. [inaudible]
Yes. It's not a contract. It's a certification. To sell the helmet into the blasting industry, you are obliged to have a NIOSH certification. That is an external entity, like the FDA, Food and Drug Administration, for the healthcare business. So in the safety, you have the NIOSH entity. For some reason, they lost their NIOSH certification. So they are not allowed to sell any helmet in the market until they reapply and they get certificate again. So how long that will take? No idea, sincerely. It really depends on the organization of our competitor. For sure, it will be at least a month or two. And anyway, there are, of course, a lot of customers of our competitor that need products. And so they are jumping on our wagon to buy product, to buy our product.
And so the expectation is that at least in the short term, to have a very strong increase in order in this specific subsector of safety. Hopefully, when the customer of the competitor will try our product, then they will remain with our product. It's a nice opportunity. Again, I am sad for my competitor, but for us, it's an interesting opportunity.
Very clear. Grazie mille.
Thank you.
The next question is from Alessandro Tortora of Mediobanca. Please go ahead.
Yes. Good afternoon to everybody. I have a short question, okay? Very brief. The first one is on the order intake, the increasing order intake you mentioned in the energy mobility. Can you tell us a little bit about the trend behind this increase in order intake? For instance, if these orders are coming from, I don't know, internal combustion versus, let's say, EVs or hybrids, just to understand where basically your client has been investing today. That's the first question. I don't know if you want to go one by one.
Well, I will answer this question. I would say that it's generalized. It's not specific to the EV vehicles. We are seeing an increase in the thermal engine, so the very classic and standard product for us. We are seeing an increase in the electronic side, and we are seeing also an increase into the recreational side of the vehicles. I don't know if you want to add something.
I think this is to be considered that we were coming from a very tough year because 2023 for the division was a very complex environment. So we were expecting a recovery, and we are experiencing that recovery. Of course, again, we don't expect a booming year for this division, but we expect that this, thanks to this recovery in order, would lead to a yearly growth in volumes and revenues for the division in line with the guidance that we provide.
Yeah. Again, I will not take this as a vision of the final market. It's more that for us, specifically, last year was really strong de-stocking. And so now we are slowly returning to normality. But this slowly return to normality is already showing us an increase compared with the previous year.
Okay. Okay. Thanks. Then the second question is on the Healthcare Life Sciences, but also with a focus on the liquid filtration. Can you comment here a little bit? The driver behind, let's say, clearly, this is the biggest division, okay, for you. So let's say the improvement on the Healthcare Life Sciences should be basically also driven by recovery on liquid. And we already see air and gas growing. So can you comment a little bit to what is happening inside this division for you?
There are still a lot of different variables on the table. Generally speaking, I would say that we see a very strong U.S., South American, and Asian market, and we see a more weak European market, just generally speaking. Then again, we have certain customers that are growing more than what we expect, others that are not growing as we expect. So there is quite a big mix. But generally speaking, the feeling is we are back to constant reordering, nice pipeline with nice visibility. And so we're not anymore discussing with the customer about canceling order or reducing quantity or things like this, but we're working on a yearly program.
Okay. Okay. Thanks. Then the third question is on the health and safety. You already mentioned, let's say, the good performance of RPB. If you look today at the health and safety, is it fair to say that basically U.S. or, let's say, North America is the larger chunk of your sales? I would say, I don't know, 70% of total sales, sorry, of divisional sales basically comes from North America. Is it, let's say, a rough indication?
I don't have the number in my mind, but I would say more 60 than not 70. 60% is more correct because then we have Europe that is quite strong, and we have the rest of the world that is growing. But let me take time to maybe if you can send the exact number.
Of course. Yeah. Anyway, you're right because RPB accounts for 60% of the whole Health and Safety. So we are very close to that.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The reason it was related to the fact that being RPB basically outperforming, I would say, that's why I said at least 60. But okay. No problem. Okay. Come back on this. And then the last question, sorry, is for Marco. Marco, you mentioned before a possibility to, let's say, reduce further working capital. I don't need any number today, but can you help us basically which item for you can be further optimized? Is it a matter of stocks? Is it a matter of collections or payments? And.
Yeah. Yeah. Please go ahead.
Yes. And the last is on the level of financial charges. Clearly, let's say, for the current year, for the full year, excluding, okay, the effects component you mentioned before. Thanks.
Okay. So first of all, we can improve our performance both on receivables, collection, and on the stock. And if you look at the past years, for example, 2019, our working capital on net revenues was better than it is now by around 4%. So the issue is that in theory, if we are able to go back to our best performance, the company was different. The perimeter was different in 2019. But we could recover around EUR 15 in terms of working capital in, let's say, no longer than 2 years' time. And some will come from stock, and some other will come from working capital. Sorry, the second question was about the financial charges. Based on the current EURIBOR, because you know that a part, a portion of our ability is based on the EURIBOR, we end up with, in the current year, with around EUR 14 to 15 million financial charges.
Okay. Okay. Thanks.
Thank you.
As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press Q&A on the left bar and raise your hand or press star one on your telephone. For any further questions, please press Q&A on the left bar and raise your hand or press star one on your telephone. Gentlemen, there are no more questions registered at this time.
Okay. Thank you very much to everybody for the participation, and see you and speak with you at the next quarter presentation. Thank you.
Thank you. Bye.
Bye-bye.