Good afternoon, this is the Chorus Call conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the OVS full year 2023 financial results conference call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Should anyone need assistance during the conference call, they may signal an operator by pressing star and zero on their telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Stefano Beraldo, CEO of OVS. Please go ahead, sir.
Hello, good afternoon. Thank you. Basically this is to inform you about the result of the full year 2023, which has been a strange year characterized by unusually negative weather conditions, which impacted negatively both first half and also second half, with a very rainy beginning of summer, with one and a half months, April and May, which has seen sales challenged by rain and cold weather. Where the recovery has been able to take place only during the month of July and August when characterized by lower margin because of markdown, of the typically seasonal markdown period. We started the second half with a similar adverse challenge by the weather because summer last year has been very long. Until mid-October, temperature in Italy were by far above the seasonality average, the seasonal average temperature.
This, again, caused a loss of sales during a very high margin period because in the month of September and October, we do not have sales, typically. The recovery has been made during the month where the quality of margin, let me say, is lower because the sales improvement took place in January and February. Basically, in spite of this adverse weather condition, which in my opinion has been the main reason for a negative market performance - market has been down by 2.5% - we have been able, again, I think for the I don't remember which consequent year, to outperform the market with this plus 1.5%. That can seem a small amount, but given what we have been forced to lose during the month which I mentioned, having been impacted by the negative weather, should have been much higher in presence of normal weather conditions.
Having said that about sales, all the remaining KPIs have been positive. Traffic improved. EBITDA improved, not that much, but only because of the reason which I mentioned. I think that we can be satisfied about what happened to the EBITDA given what I explained before. Good cash flow generated during the year in spite of being in the peak of our extraordinary investment generated by digital improvements, logistic improvements, rollout of beginning of the rollout of the smart cash counters, also thanks to a positive contribution to good management of working capital. We have already told in our press release that we are very happy about the current trading, which again is a bit strange because we performed very well in the beginning of the year in spite of the late deliveries generated by the Suez difficulties.
The sales has been very good because we sold more than expected our former season product during the month of February. We are benefiting from what has been, until two days ago, a very warm beginning of April. All in all, nevertheless, the current trading is very encouraging also, with reference to the good momentum that our brand is benefiting from and, in principle, should be a good indication also for the positive mood that we have with reference to the rest of the year. As usual, I hand the word to Francesco Leoncini to give you more color and more detail on our results. Thank you.
Thank you, Stefano. I would start from page number five to recap the evolution of the results of OVS Group along the year. As also commented in previous calls, Q1 OVS has started very well with a robust Q1 with sales growing by 12%. This is particularly important when looking to the current performance that mounts on already a double-digit growth last year. Q2 and Q3 were strongly penalized by the adverse weather. Now we can comment Q4 that sees a positive sales increase by 1.7%, about EUR 7 ,000,000, that translates into about a EUR 5 ,000,000 EBITDA increase, also thanks to the better profitability that winter 2023 has versus winter 2022, given the normalization of the raw material price increase.
Overall, and then moving to page number six, we have a growth of 1.5% in terms of sales, and a couple of million euro EBITDA increase from EUR 180,000,000 to EUR 182 ,000,000 in the year. The net result is then slightly penalized by an increase in D&A and financial charges, but overall in a picture where the business is growing. As we can see then on page number seven, with the split by brand and by channel. By brand, we can see that the performance was quite homogeneous between OVS and Upim, both increasing by 1.3%, 1.4%, with a stable result in terms of EBITDA margin. While, looking by channel, we see the growth of about 3% in the DOS channel, and a slight decline in the franchising sale.
This decline is mostly due to delays in the deliveries of the month of January and so also on the shipment from our side to our partners due to the Suez crisis, to the benefit of 2024 when we expect that during the year we will have a sort of normalization of this event. On page number eight, we can comment the very positive trend of working capital that overall declines by 10% and generates about EUR 15 ,000,000 of cash. On one side, we have this reduction in trade receivable, especially due to the shipments, but also to the fact that we perfectly managed to absorb some delays that we granted, some payment term extensions that we granted to our partners at the end of October.
And this is, I think a very key element in the relationship that we have because we are able to support our partners when needed, as they had to, after a tough September, October due to the weather, but also being able to bring things to normality as soon as possible. The inventory is starting to reduce versus last year. We are not yet at full potential because, due to the bad weather, we have some leftover. But, as commented many times, this is just a time effect, because the ability to sell even previous season products is very strong in OVS. So we expect also very good results in the 2024 year on this point. Trade payables, apart from the effect of stock are increasing, together with the business.
Page number nine, on investments, 2023 and 2024 represent the peak of the effort of the company on the supply chain and digitalization side. We have almost completed the automation of our Piacenza Distribution Center. We are going to start in 2024 the investment in our Bari Puglia plant, dedicated to refurbishment and circular supply chain. While on the digital side, we are converting all our cash systems in the stores with up-to-date omnichannel tools that will increase our ability to dialogue with the customers. Another area of investments, also in terms of increasing versus last year are the refurbishment, always with very good results. For the ones of you that are in Milan, I invite you to see the new store of Via Dante, that was renewed a couple of weeks ago. That shows the potential of the new format.
Page number 10, the cash flow basically collects all the information in confirmation of the EUR 64 ,000,000 cash generated last year. For a third year in a row, OVS is delivering good results in terms of cash generation. 2021, I remember, was above EUR 120 ,000,000 also due to the effect after the COVID. But all in all, we have this capacity to deliver a robust result despite the fact that we are still in suboptimal conditions due to the negative weather that we suffered during the year. Page number 11 puts the light on how we deduce this cash during the year. As last year, we used it mostly to deliver these values to the shareholders either in the way of dividends.
As you know, we also delivered, distributed an external dividend during the month of February. We have also the proposal looking forward to 2024 to the shareholder meeting end of May to increase the dividend from $0.06 to $0.07 per share and also investing in buyback. So overall, I move to page 12, the change in the net financial position is positive, but not so big also due to the fact that we have already delivered to the shareholder this amount. By the way, the level of the end of the year is already below the EUR 160 ,000,000 amount that we raised with the bond, with the Sustainability-Linked bond, in 2021. The leverage ratio is further declining to 0.8, so in a very low value.
I move to page number 14 to comment to start the comment of a little bit of the current trading. And then, of course, I expect that on that topic, there will be some questions. As said, this 75 days of 2024 can be split on one side, the first couple of months, during which we suffered some delays for the incoming spring/summer 2024 goods. But we, the company was more than able to offset the missing goods with prolonging the sales and also using previous year products. So we had already growth even in the difficult February, March. And then in these 15 days of April, we had even a double-digit growth due to the positive weather. This time was with a positive effect. So with a very good start of the year.
We expect so overall in 2024, sorry, on one side, this positive effect, and also the momentum that was mentioned by Stefano in the beginning to sustain positive growth along the full year. On the other side, as mentioned, we are close to finalizing agreement on the new national contract for labor that will bring some increase. But overall, this should be less than the improved sales and gross margin. We are going ahead on the Goldenpoint project that we started, we communicated with the final agreement on the investment on the 2nd of April. And on that, I think there will be more to come in the following calls. I bring back the words to Stefano or to questions.
Thank you, Francesco. I think now the question time is open.
This is the Chorus Call conference operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and two. Please pick up the receiver when asking questions. Anyone with a question may press star and one at this time. The first question is from Francesco Brilli of Intermonte.
[Foreign language]
[Foreign language]
Okay. I'm not sure if I have to answer in Italian because I don't know if we have only Italians to attend this conference. In case there are also non-existing no, no, no. I try for the benefit of time. I think I suggest that I will repeat very shortly your question, and with my answer, everyone will understand in any case. Eventually, you will correct me, eventually. Basically, you asked some comment about the impact of cost and working capital. On cost, you asked basically what is going to happen to cost of labor, given that you have seen a modest increase in year 2023. We announced that we expect a major cost increase due to the ongoing negotiations, which retail companies are having, are undertaking with the union. We expect, as we said, a cost increase.
In terms of percentage, we believe that we are going to have like a 0.5%, 0.6%, 0.7% increase of incidence of cost of labor on sales. This obviously will depend also from sales because if sales remain sustained in terms of trend, this percentage might decrease. So there is also the sales variable that will impact. What is interesting to notice is that in any case, we expect a cost of labor increase not higher than maybe 5% to 7% compared to the year before. On rent, the second question was focusing on rent. You noticed that we had some rent increase in terms of incidence of rent on the sales. This is right.
This is mostly because sales has been lower than what we expected because of the reason that we explained in the beginning of the call related to the lack of sales during the difficult months impacted by adverse weather conditions. Basically, what is happening and what we can expect that should happen in year 2024 is that we will increase our rent in line with ISTAT. So there is a kind of a 3%, 3.5% rent increase depending from ISTAT, while the inventory, if I may say, the stock of savings that we have been able to achieve will be maintained. So basically, year after year, we continue to renegotiate the annual effect of the rent savings in order to maintain the impact of rent stable, with the exception of ISTAT, obviously, which expect to be in the range of 3.5%.
Last question was on working capital. On working capital, as you noticed, we had this positive contribution to the cash flow generation due to EUR 15,000,000-EUR 16 ,000,000 of working capital improvement. We expect to be able to have a slight further improvement for year 2024 due to the fact that still we believe we have some tail of inefficiency in our inventory, much smaller compared to the year before. But we believe that another EUR 5,000,000-EUR 10 ,000,000 of inventory reduction compared, I mean, in terms of same perimeter, we should expect. So a slight contribution on working capital is expected also in year 2024.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Thank you.
The next question is from Daniele Alibrandi of Stifel.
Yes. Good afternoon, gentlemen. Thanks very much for taking my question. Congrats on results. I have three questions today for you. First one on CapEx. I appreciated your comments regarding the development of CapEx over the next few years. It should peak in 2023, 2024. I was wondering, where do you see stabilizing in 2025? If you can give us some understanding on how these two special projects that will be completed this year can help you from an operative performance going forward. Should we expect a structural lower working capital intensity? This was my take, but just to check this with you. Second question on Goldenpoint . Can you give us an understanding of the key financial of this company in terms of especially profitability and how and to which level you could improve this?
And third one, where do you see profitability in terms of EBITDA evolving in 2024? Thanks.
CapEx, year 2024 will be the last year characterized by special project. We are finalizing the, as Francesco mentioned, the diffusion of our new smart cash counters, which will improve our CRM abilities, our multi-channel competencies, and our capacity to entertain a proper dialogue with every single customer based on his/her habits as a customer behavior. The other important project that was regarding the improvement of the logistic system in order to provide more flexibility and efficiency to the system is basically over. The last project regards the establishment in Puglia, as Francesco mentioned, of a segment of our digital innovation activities and also of the refurbishing and activities related to the possibility to improve our capacity to properly carry over our unsold product to the following year, basically increasing the lifespan of our merchandising. All these projects will be finished during the year '24.
Consequently, we do not expect to enter in 2025 and following years at the same level of CapEx. We believe that we can have like EUR 20 ,000,000 lower CapEx if you want to normalize the expected CapEx for 2025 and following years. In terms of the second part of your question, when you ask what is happening in terms of improvements of our operation thanks to this investment, the only thing I can say is that as far as concerns the improvement on the planning and distribution of product, shortening the delivery times and improving the quality of our distribution system, putting the right product in the right store at the right moment, we are already benefiting from the initial results of those projects. The second question was related to Goldenpoint .
The company has minimum profitability today in terms of EBITDA, but most of this is because the company decided to open a small number of non-performing stores with a second brand called Nicla, which we obtained and we decided together with the ownership that will be closed. The closure will be charged to the former ownership. So we will not have any cost, we will not suffer any cost because of those closures. So once this non-performing store will be closed, we speak about 10, 12 stores, not more, we remain with 380 beautiful stores in great location across Italy, good location in shopping mall or good location downtown, with already a very good sales density. If we compare with our kids' store, for instance, the sales density of the Goldenpoint store is 40% higher.
The intake margin of Goldenpoint is already, before our synergies, much higher than the kids' intake. This is a common practice. I mean that all the underwear chains are operating a business with higher intake and higher gross margin compared to kids' or General Affairs brand. Why do I compare with kids'? Because, as some of you might have noticed, we opened hundreds of kids' stores in our history. We have now more than 600, 700 kids' stores. When we look at the metrics of Goldenpoint , we speak about small stores, similarly to the kids' store, stores that might be operated also in a very efficient way by franchisee partners like we do with our kids' store. Our plan, basically, is based on three main pillars.
One is we are happy with noticing that the quality of the brand, the quality of the locations, and the quality of the merchandising in terms of beachwear are fully satisfactory. What we know is that the company is missing in terms of merchandising in all the other categories where we can provide them value-added, like socks, like nightwear, like lingerie, and like knitwear. These are the areas which account for about 60% of the sales of this company, where we are already aware that we can bring a strong value-added thanks to our capabilities. This is the first pillar. Thanks to this, we expect to increase sales like-for-like almost about 20%. Second pillar will be cost synergies. We have already double-checked the cost of the goods that are sourced by Goldenpoint compared to our cost of goods.
We have almost a 10% advantage in cost that we will transfer to the benefit of this chain. Third pillar is that we will open many new stores. Most of those stores will be opened by the same entrepreneurs, which are already happy partners of OVS with OVS Kids. We are already realizing that all across Italy, there are more than 200 stores that can be opened in the next three to four years. We are very confident, also based on present negotiations and discussions with our partners, that dozens of those stores will be opened also in year 2025. Next year, we will start already opening new stores. Maybe even in the second part of this year, we will open some new stores.
Three pillars for our strategy basically draw us to the conclusion that EBITDA that we can expect from this company will move sharply from where it is today to more than EUR 20 ,000,000 in not more than a three-year time without material CapEx because most of the CapEx will be held by franchisee partners. A very interesting story. It's worth mentioning that OVS is already number two or number three operator in market share in underwear. Underwear is not something which is new for us. In beachwear, I think we are number two. In nightwear, we are number two. In socks, we are, I think, number one or two. Basically, we are already a material player in this battleground. We were missing a standalone brand. I'm convinced that with this brand and how we add another strong leg to our table.
Last question was a more tricky question. You want to know where we end up with our EBITDA in 2024. We are mid-April. We are in the third month of the year. I think it's very early to make assumptions regarding EBITDA for the full year because, unfortunately, we don't have a portfolio of orders. Our boss are the client, and they decide what to do based on the success of our collection. Sometimes, fortunately, our boss is also the weather. If we have to consider statistics, I expect that this year, we should have a normalization of weather. I expect a good contribution for this external condition.
I'm sure that our momentum is great because we are attracting new customers thanks to many new things that we are making in our assortment, in our store, that we are improving in terms of image, in terms of windows, in terms of collections. We are doing super well with Piombo, but we are doing super well also with the Baby Angel, which is the brand that we launched many years ago with Elio Fiorucci , which has been revitalized, redesigned, and now managed from a very good internal manager. We are very confident that we will continue attracting younger customers like we are doing today. All those things should generate a positive impact on sales. We have some headwind as well with the increase of the rent for the shipments and with the delay in deliveries.
We have some headwind relating to the labor cost increase, as we mentioned. We have some tailwind because we have the full year with the lower cost thanks to the normalization of the post-COVID shock cost increase, while year 2023 has been characterized by only the second half with lower cost. In 2024, we have a full year with lower cost. What will be the combination of all these aspects, in principle, might be positive. We expect that it should be positive. Obviously, there is a variable of sales, which is only partially dependent from us, but we are relatively optimistic.
Thank you. Good luck.
Thank you.
The next question is from Andrea Bonfà, Banca Akros . Hello.
Good afternoon to everybody. My question has been almost all answered. I got a couple of final details, if you allow me, to this question.
One is, let's assume that the weather pattern is normalized. Would you say that you can maintain the 5% growth that you are experiencing in the first part of the year? Is my first question. The second one is, is there any update on how is Stefano performing, which is now no mention anymore? So just these two points. Thank you very much.
Okay. On the first question, as we said, the answer is yes, it might be possible. We have some new openings this year as well. So some 1.5% of sales might be generated simply by the new openings. Another 2, 3% of sales might be generated by like-for-like.
If weather will assist us and the Suez issue will not deteriorate, which I don't believe because we are already planning in advance in order to avoid the Suez crisis, that will impact our cost but not anymore on delivery time in the second half of the year, achieving the 4% to 5% increase in sales, you asked 5%, is technically possible. The second part of the question was on Stefano. Stefano, we don't mention because it is still immaterial in our global results. The good news to me, and obviously, even in this case, I need from you guys good luck, is that finally, I am convinced that we have found the solution, which means we have found the right quality on the assortment. I am very optimistic regarding the product development, which I have seen during winter regarding the next autumn-winter collection.
I'm very positive. What I've seen makes me optimistic. I think that the second half, we will see Stefano able to perform much better than how he's performing today. Today, basically, the performance is stable, while our assumption was to see a sales increase. But the quality of our collection has not been in line with our requirements. We have been forced to undertake organizational decisions with a change of the most important player in this game, which is the Style and Product Director. So we changed it. We promoted an internal person, which is super good. I'm very optimistic about it. I'm very positive about it.
The question is from Domenico Ghilotti of Equita.
Good afternoon. A few questions. The first is just to understand how much, in your view, you have lost in 2023 in terms of sales compared to a normal year.
Just to have some kind of call on that. Then more broad question is related to your market share. We have seen that you gain another 20 bips. Can you comment, in general, on the market dynamics, who is gaining market share, who is losing market share, if the online players, pure online players, are recovering speed or not? In particular, looking at your categories, how are you reacting in the kids' segment where you probably lost a little bit of ground compared to the past?
The first question is simple. We estimate that we have lost between EUR 30 ,000,000 and EUR 40 ,000,000. In terms of market dynamics, we are growing more than other or similarly to other. We are growing similarly to Inditex, similarly to Primark. We don't see any other company growing like us. Probably a small company called Terranova , which is growing well.
We continue to see negative performance on the Benetton side, on the H&M side, on other players' side. Among the small players, which are still growing, we have this Pepco group from Poland, even if the path of their growth is slowing down heavily. They are starting closing some stores in the north of Italy. They are still opening in the south of Italy. We don't see a positive figure from the e-commerce player, with the exception of Shein, which is starting comparing in the radar screen of Sita Ricerca. The market share is still very low, but they are growing. We don't know how much because we don't have the figure of Shein one year ago. In terms of our performance versus the market in kids, we are indeed recovering market share.
This year, we increased our market share in kids also because we decided to partially remodulate our price strategy that last year generated a material price increase. This year, we decreased slightly some price in the entry level. The result has been a recovery versus the market. If I'm not wrong, the market in kids this year lost 5%, Francesco told me, 5%. We are basically minus 1% something. We recovered the market share. We don't see, basically, new threat in the market. I forgot to mention also Mango, which is doing well. Basically, these are the players which are doing well. All these brands are strong in women. We are very happy because we are improving in women more than in men and more than in kids.
It means that we are partially continuing to partially replace the space dedicated to kids in favor of the space dedicated to women. Now, the total turnover of women becomes similar to the turnover of kids. We expect that in the next couple of years, there will be a switch between the two categories, with women continuing to be the one that is supposed to grow the most.
Okay. Thank you. Maybe just to follow up, if you can give us also some updates on the other special projects that you launched. You were mentioning beauty, accessories, the sport, the outerwear, and the gap opportunities.
We are very happy with, I would say, with all. There are different degrees of execution in the project.
We have almost finalized our change, our improvement in the model of beauty segment with the introduction of new brand, with the introduction of indie brand, with the introduction of a house brand in this category. We have been able to totally revitalize one segment, which is attracting the youngest customer, girl mostly, obviously, with the makeup, also to the benefit of Baby Angel, which is the natural apparel segment dedicated to this category of customers. In the sport, which you introduced, basically, during last winter with the launch of Altavia with Deborah Compagnoni, we are very happy. We achieved our target. We are positive already in the first season, which was not in our budget, honestly. We supposed to have lost some hundreds of thousands of euros. But at the end of the season, we can say that the C2 has been higher than expected.
We are cash positive on it since the first season. Now, in this moment, we are on air with a campaign regarding tennis, paddle, biking, and hiking. The result of this will be seen in the next coming months. On accessories, we are still working on what I believe will become visible starting from the second half of year 2024. With Gap, we are not excited. I'll be in New York in a couple of weeks to discuss with the CEO an improvement in margin and commercial condition. I will review my priorities. We are not losing any money with Gap, but we are not making money. Basically, this is not the place where I want to stay forever.
So basically, either they will change some commercial condition, which will enable us to be more aggressive there, or we will not invest too much effort in this. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from Federico Belluati of Kepler. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question. My question is on current trading. Basically, you cited two drivers, the one of April, which has high temperatures, and the one of some delays in the wholesale, which went from Q4 2023 to Q1 2024, basically. Can you please give us more color of the sides of these two effects, please? That's it. The negative impact, basically, is due to the fact that we are missing EUR 30,000,000-EUR 40 ,000,000 of our goods in our shelf that we expected to have in the store now.
The fact that we are achieving positive like-for-like in spite of what can be like 6% or 7% of merchandising that we miss in terms of total intake means that there is good momentum, and people are visiting, obviously. If they don't find what we expected to be able to offer to them, they are happy buying something else. The second aspect regarding the weather is that the beginning of April, until a couple of days ago, has been characterized by unusually hot temperatures. This helped, obviously.
But to tell you in a different way, we have been positive every week of the period, either because our customer appreciated our sales during the month of February, either because our customer appreciated our collection, spring collection in March, or either because our customers are buying because they need lightweight garments because it was very hot in the beginning of April. But turn in each of the ways, it means that the company, the brand, is attracting customers, and we are working well. Difficult for me to elaborate more.
Okay. Thank you.
The next question is a follow-up from Francesco Brilli of Intermonte.
Thank you. Not in English. Apologies for before. I was just lost in thoughts. A quick follow-up.
I was just curious if you have some initial evidence or highlights that you want to share with us on the openings made abroad for Piombo stores in the U.S. and Europe.
What I can tell you, I'm happy that you made this question because this is something which, to me, is very important from a strategic point of view. I don't remember if I told you guys that we decided to open three stores to be flagship in three countries where the target was not to open stores but to be visible by the department stores because we believe that in those three countries, opening standalone stores in those three markets, sorry, opening standalone Piombo stores should be too expensive. But it was indispensable in order to become interesting to the eyes of the buyers of the department stores in the same three countries.
What happened is that in France, where we opened one store in Rue Saint-Honoré, we have been able to enter in Galeries Lafayette. Now, we are in Galeries Lafayette Paris and in Galeries Lafayette Lyon with Piombo Corner. The sales are twice as big than the budget. We are super happy. We are about to enter, I hope and I cross finger, in El Corte Inglés in Spain, where we opened one store in Calle Coello with Piombo again. I have a couple of meetings with the department store in New York in a few weeks from now. Crossing fingers, we are able to enter in one of them. This is still too early. Opening stores as an instrument to be observed and to become interesting to the eyes of a department store manager seems to be positive.
Thank you.
The next question is from Luca Baccoccoli of Intesa Sanpaolo.
Hello. Good afternoon, everyone. Just to follow up from my side, the first one regards the impact of the Red Sea disruption on logistics. I was wondering if you can quantify the impact expected on 2024 in terms of higher cost and/or lower sales. The other one regards the strong start to the year. You mentioned that you managed to grow the top line selling the autumn-winter collection. I was wondering if those sales were done through heavy discount and if we should expect some margin contraction, at least, on the first part of the first quarter this year. Thank you.
What I can say is that we have two different effects. One is simply, purely going directly to the cost because we had a cost increase.
We estimate that we are in a range of about EUR 5 ,000,000 in terms of cost increase because of air freight, because of increase of the weight transport, etc. In terms of delay, we are suffering in this moment about a EUR 40 ,000,000 delay for goods. Fortunately, and crossing fingers, as of now, this delay is not impacting our sales materially. So needless to say that with these items in the shelf, our sales might be higher. But again, touching wood this time, this delay until now does not seem to affect too much our sales. In terms of gross margin, I have to say that we have a better intake, first of all. So we start from a better point thanks to what I said before.
Obviously, as you correctly noticed, because we increased during the month of February and the beginning of March, as we said, the sales of former seasonal goods, we had to incur a normal discount on a slightly higher number of items. So the combined effect is higher intake, a bit higher discount. I tell you, we don't expect to have a negative margin effect in the gross margin of the first Q. Maybe it will end up stable compared to last year. On the full year, we are positive. We believe that we have a slight gross margin increase.
Okay. Thank you. Very clear.
Thank you.
The next question is a follow-up from Domenico Ghilotti of Equita.
Yeah. A follow-up. Just a clarification. When you said EUR 5 ,000,000 additional cost in Suez, you mean year to date? You mean your projection for the full year?
What is the timeline for this indication? The other question is on Piombo. Can you share with us where we stand today in terms of contribution and mix between the different categories, women, men, and kids on Piombo?
The effect of Suez of the EUR 5 ,000,000 will be basically 60%, 70% to the charge of the 2024 profit and loss. The rest will be incorporated in the year-end goods and will also be to the charge of 2025 year. On Piombo, you are curious to know about the breakdown between men and women. Let me say that we have now a total amount. I'm looking at the figure. 100? What is the amount there?
100.
EUR 100 ,000,000. EUR 100 ,000,000. Yeah.
It impacts about 12% of the total women's sales, about 20% of the total men's sales, and about 1.5% of the kids' sales. The trend has been very supportive on the women's. The trend is good. The trend is positive. In this moment, like-for-like, we are positive, largely positive on women and positive on men.
In terms of penetration, you see probably room for women to reach the contribution of men?
The brand that you see structurally maybe not that high. The room to increase the penetration of Piombo, either men or women, is still material. Every time we, for instance, in this moment, if you visit our store, you will see a new project called Piombo Contemporary.
You can call it a sort of quiet luxury approach inspired by mild and soft colors and fitting, more appropriate for men and women who are looking for a more quiet and less colorful approach, a sort of inspiration to Cucinelli, Zegna, this kind of brand. You will find it in the store now. I can tell you that this project is performing extremely well. You have a picture. On page 8, you have a picture of what I mean with this reference. In the store, you will find it under the Piombo Contemporary label. We also have another project you can see also on the web, for instance, which is Piombo. We call it Piombo. It's like a minimal style. At this moment, I've forgotten. Contemporary selection. Selection. Piombo Selection. We call it Piombo Selection.
From this example, you see that there is still a lot of room to improve this brand which we own. We use this brand to justify better fabrics, better finishing, and also higher prices. Hopefully, we will continue in this trend.
Thank you.
As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press star and one on your telephone.
I think the conference is all. We spent together one hour. Thank you for your question. I hope to talk to you soon during the next quarter result presentation. Thank you. Good afternoon to everybody.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining. The conference is now over. You may disconnect.