Good morning, this is your conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Sogefi nine-month 2024 results conference call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Should anyone need assistance during the conference call, they may signal an operator by pressing star and zero on their telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Olivier Proust, CFO of Sogefi. Please go ahead, sir.
Hi, everybody, and thanks a lot for attending this meeting. We share already a presentation for Sogefi at the end of September 2024 . My suggestion is not to go through this presentation. I will make a quick introduction. I will take the advantage of this meeting for introducing Luigi Lubrano, who is the new CEO of the Suspension business unit, and then we will immediately jump to the Q&A session. So with regards to our performance for the first nine months of 2024, we would like to emphasize on the good performance of Sogefi.
The revenue for Sogefi in the first nine months is at EUR 766 million, decreasing from EUR 803.9 million compared to the same period of the previous year. But this represent a decline of 4.3% at constant exchange rates. Sogefi's performance is slightly lagged behind the market due to its customer portfolio, and some major European car manufacturers have accumulated a large inventory and subsequently reduced their production level. But despite this lowest revenue, we have a very strong EBITDA performance, which our EBITDA is now at EUR 101 million, coming from EUR 89 million last year.
This real improvement can be attributed to the improvement of the Suspension business units, where we are taking advantage of the restructuring launch over the last two years. Maybe Luigi later can a little bit talk about it. The resilience of the Air and Cooling business, where we have a consistent performance despite strong market challenges. The main consequence of this performance is a net income of the operating activity, which is increasing compared to last year. We reached EUR 15 million compared to EUR 8.3 million for the first nine months of the year. If we include the impact of the future disposal, the net income amounted to EUR 149 million.
The free cash flow of Sogefi achieved a positive, roughly EUR 20 million, significant improvement compared to a negative cash flow of roughly EUR 9 million in the same period last year. And this improvement includes a lower use of factoring. So the net cash generation is highly better than last year. What can we say now with regards to 2024 ? Sorry, 2024 . We are expecting a Q4 in line with the first nine months, with a further decline compared to last year. In the same range than the first nine months, i.e., a low single digit, we were, we are at minus 4.6%.
We expect that the raw material will remain stable, still high compared to 2019, but in line with the first nine months, and the same for the energy costs. Then we are expecting to maintain our performance in terms of production and a strong increase of our results compared to 2023, in line with our guidance. That's what I can say quickly with regards to the first nine months. Maybe I can now let Luigi introduce himself, and then we can move to the Q&A. Luigi?
Yeah. Good morning, everybody. I joined Sogefi the beginning of September, after a long experience in Magneti Marelli, where I played different role inside the organization. For the first part of the year, inside the R&D department, in different division, Powertrain, first, and later on, in Exhaust. Then in the last ten years of my career inside Magneti Marelli, I had the opportunity to do the full P&L of the company for Powertrain BU in China, restructuring China organization, and also revamping the product portfolio and the customer portfolio with a strategy oriented on the local customer
Later on, I have been mainly assigned to Exhaust division as a CEO, managing the transformation of the company and especially of the BU inside Magneti Marelli after the spin-off from FCA and joining Calsonic Kansei managed by KKR. So, a huge experience in automotive, in different sector. After this experience, I joined Sogefi that I find a very robust company with great opportunities for the future and especially for suspension.
Thank you, Luigi. So, let's move to Q&A. Who wants to be the first?
Thank you. This is the conference operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and two. Please pick up the receiver when asking questions. Anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. The first question is from Monica Bosio, Intesa Sanpaolo. Please go ahead.
Everyone, and thanks for taking my question, and, nice to meet you, Luigi. My first question is on the Suspension division. Can you give us more color on the Suspension division in the third quarter? If I'm not wrong, in the third quarter, the operating margins for the Suspensions was at roughly 11%. What should we expect by year end, and could we still expect an improvement of one hundred basis points per year? Within this context, can you quantify the potential restructuring charges for Sogefi in 2025 ? Maybe it's too early to discuss two thousand and twenty-five, but I think that is quite important.
The last question is on the current load factor of the suspension plants, and what do you expect to achieve, let's say, in a two years' time, by the end of 2024 and in 2025 ? Thank you very much.
Can you rephrase, please? Hello, Monica. Can you please rephrase your last question regarding Suspension? I didn't get it. You were talking about-
Yeah. The last question was on the load factor of the suspension...
Oh.
So if I remember well, it was in the second quarter. I don't remember, but I remember that 67%, 70% was the threshold for being profitable. So if you can give us some color also on this side. Thank you.
You're welcome. So regarding the margin, yes, we have still room to improve the margin in Suspension. To make the story short, the margin today is around 11%. When we are talking about margin, we are talking about EBITDA on sales, just to be to-
Mm-hmm.
Clarify. Yes, we have room to improve the margin. The margin of Suspension will not, will never reach the level of Air and Cooling, that's for sure. That's not the same kind of business, but in the past, we succeed to achieve 13 to 14%. That could be a target for the coming years.
Okay.
Talking about restructuring, it's a bit too early to discuss the amounts for 2025. You all know around the table that the market will slightly decrease, especially in Europe, in 2025. So, we are currently doing our homework for optimizing.
Our footprint, based on, the market projection. So it's a bit too early, but we will have for sure restructuring charge, in 2025. That's part of our roadmap. We already had, we haven't finished yet, to restructure Suspension. Regarding the load factor, Luigi, maybe you can give some flavor about it, or maybe if you think that it's a little bit too early for you, please feel free to say.
No, about the load factor, I suppose, it is, you are speaking about, the percentage of the usage of the plants. We are in the region of 60%, there is space. So there is no any problem in term of, it is our portfolio, so we are very well staffed. We are investigating some new markets that can improve and accelerate the saturation of our premises. I suppose it's too early to discuss about this point, but for sure, for suspension, there are good opportunity to improve.
Okay. Thank you very much. Very clear. Thank you.
The next question is from Gabriele Gambarova, Banca Akros. Please go ahead.
Yes, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. The first one is on pricing, if it is possible to have a few more details on the price environment, the trend you saw in the Q3, and possibly what do you expect for the coming months? The second one is on fixed costs. I saw that there was a nice fixed cost, let's say, reduction in the nine months. So if you could give me a flavor of what's going on, even in Q4, and possibly if there is room for cutting fixed costs, even next year. The last one is, very trivial, if you want, on the tax rate. I saw 42%, something more in the nine months.
So what could we expect for the 2024 , and possibly the coming years?
Okay, thanks. Thanks, Gabriele. So with regards to the price. Well, the price are mainly stable, and that's something that we also expect for the coming three months. Stable both on sales price and raw material price. On the energy, there is a kind of volatility, as you can imagine, but for the time being, we do not expect big wins. The first expectation we have for 2025 is also the price to be roughly stable. With regards, unless a big change in the market, of course. With regards to fixed cost, we have room to improve.
The trend is on the reduction, and it will continue both for the end of the year and 2025. With regard to tax rates, we had some specific tax costs, part of them due to the disposal of Filtration and we've been taxed due to this operation. We expect a tax rate at the end of the year around 35%.
Excuse me, 35, three-five ?
Yeah, three- five. Yeah.
Okay. Okay, thank you. And the same applies to the coming years, I guess?
Yep.
Okay. Thank you very much.
As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press star and one on your telephone. For any further questions, please press star and one on your telephone. The next question is a follow-up from Gabriele Gambarova, Banca Akros. Please go ahead.
Yes, excuse me, just a follow-up for Luigi. I understand that you are, let's say, your tenure started just a month ago, but what's your, let's say, what's your impression on the suspension business? I mean, what do you find could you comment a little bit on this?
Yeah, for sure. The situation is very positive. The debt is negligible in front of the operation that this company is managing, and it is a great advantage for the growth in the future. In this moment, the company has a portfolio that is unbalanced on passenger cars. In my opinion, we have to work on other sector that they are using component for suspense, for suspension. I have in mind railways, improve our penetration in heavy duty. So, in my opinion, we have a lot of space for improvement in term of market capabilities. On the other hand, the footprint is well deployed. We cover China, South America and Europe.
Probably we have a lack of footprint in United States. It's something that we have to discuss internally in order to understand how to deal with that market. But in general, the condition of the BU is very positive at a glance.
Okay. Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
The next question is from Alexandre Raverdy, Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Yes, good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. I have two very quick questions, please. The first one is on the guidance, on profitability for 2024. I see consensus is expecting 4.8% EBIT margin for the year. Do you think it's still plausible in light of the slightly lowered revenue guidance? That's the first question. And second, also on profitability in 2025. So I'm trying to bridge everything that you mentioned, with production being slightly down in Europe and North America next year. You see some improvement in fixed costs, suspensions margin should continue to improve. So overall, and I admit, it's still a bit too early, but do you think something more than 5% still makes sense at this stage? Thank you.
It's way, way too early for talking about 2025. Sorry for that. With regards to the guidance of 2024, I confirm that the 4.8 remains achievable, even if we have a drop.
Thank you.
A slight decrease in sales.
Great. Thank you.
For any further questions, please press star and one on your telephone. Mr. Proust, gentlemen, there are no more questions. Excuse me, there is a follow-up question from Monica Bosio, Intesa Sanpaolo. Please go ahead.
Yes, sorry, a follow-up. I don't know if you can answer at this stage, but, I'm just wondering, how do you see the free cash flow evolution in 2025? Basically, Suspension should no longer burn cash, and air cooling should be, as usual, positive. So, how do you see the free cash flow evolution for the next year? Also, on the back of the fact that the Romanian plant should report better results. I don't know.
Monica, that's great. You're making the questions and the answers.
Okay. Got it. So it's the Romanian plant that should give us support to-
The Suspension should continue to improve. We are coming from a very negative cash flow in Suspension. Suspension is not anymore burning cash entity in 2024. Air and Cooling is generating cash. So, we will do our best effort to maintain this trend in 2025.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much.
For any further questions, please press star and one on your telephone. Mr. Proust, gentlemen, there are no more questions registered at this time. I turn the conference back to you for any closing remarks.
Thank you very much. Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining. The conference is now over, and you may disconnect your telephones.