Welcome to our live audio webcast and conference call. Stellantis will share with you more information on the recently announced strategic partnership. I will hand over to Ed Ditmire, Head of Stellantis Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us to discuss today's announcement of a partnership agreement between Stellantis and Leapmotor. Earlier, the presentation materials for this call, as well as the related press release, were posted on the investor relations section of the Stellantis group website. Our call today is hosted by Carlos Tavares, the company's Chief Executive Officer, and Natalie Knight, the company's CFO. After Mr. Tavares makes some very brief remarks, they will be available to answer questions. Before we begin, I want to point out that any forward-looking statements we make during today's call are subject to the risks and uncertainties mentioned in the safe harbor statement included in page two of today's presentation. As customary, the call will be governed by that language.
Lastly, we will be limiting the discussion today to the subject of the Leapmotor partnership, and we'll be addressing other topics on our upcoming October thirty-first 3Q revenue and shipment update. Now, I would like to hand over the call to Carlos Tavares, CEO of Stellantis.
Well, thank you, Ed, and good morning, good afternoon, good evening to all of you. It is our pleasure with Natalie to host this discussion so that we give you as many insights as needed on what is the spirit of this partnership. I would like just to comment on a couple of things. Stellantis wants to be acting on the business transformation that is now ongoing in the world. It is obviously visible to all of us that there is a very strong Chinese offensive, and we do not intend to be on the defensive facing the Chinese offensive. We do not intend to be on the defensive. We think that there is today, and we have enough evidence, that the Chinese carmakers are around 30% more cost competitive than any Western one.
Minus, minus 30% at ex-works level means, generally speaking, around -20%, in total landed cost level, which means that they have a cost competitive edge that we can measure, that we have measured through different angles, and we know exactly where they are. From that perspective, we understand that they have a certain number of competitive edges on technology, electrification, battery, energy management systems. We understand that they have a cost competitive edge of around 30%, on ex-works level. And therefore, what is behind this partnership is very simply the fact that we want to be part of the offensive, and we want to make sure that Chinese offensive is going to play to our benefit and not to our detriment. That translates into things.
We have taken a 21.2% or 21.3% share in Leapmotor, and at the same time, we are going to be the exclusive company to take care of the exports in overseas, which means outside of China. We are going to be leading the profitable growth of a JV that we have created and that we control at 51%, which is called Leapmotor International. Which means all the overseas business that is going to be created through the offensive of this Chinese carmaker is going to be under our control, as this Leapmotor International company is 51% owned by Stellantis.
Therefore, you can see that we can benefit from the wave that would be created through the exports of Leapmotor cars to the rest of the world, to the overseas world, while we are, of course, bringing our own footprint in terms of sales and marketing and in terms of manufacturing, if that was to be needed, to increase the profitable growth of the Leapmotor International JV that we own at 51%. While we are doing this, we are also a reference shareholder, a few tenths of a point just behind the founder of this company, with a 21.2% or 21.3%. Being the reference shareholder just after the founder puts us in a position to enjoy whatever good things will happen in China under the Leapmotor brand.
As you know, Leapmotor is the number 4 in terms of pure NEV Chinese companies right now, and they are breathing in the neck of the number 3. And while they are doing this, they are bringing their financials to the black, so they have a quite wise management of their profitable growth, which is very much aligned with the values of Stellantis. As you know, we don't like to buy market share with red ink. We like to create value by growing volumes and growing profits at the same time. The mindset and the values of Leapmotor are quite similar, and from there, we believe that leveraging our footprint and leveraging our scale, we are also going to be the promoters of a successful, profitable growth of Leapmotor in China.
We have already demonstrated that we are not very good at operating in China, so we will let Leapmotor operate the business in China, and we'll support as much as we can. But we will be operating ourselves, the profitable growth overseas. So that's the mindset, is we don't want to be defensive, we want to be offensive. We don't want to suffer from the Chinese offensive. We want to be benefiting from the Chinese offensive by being the exclusive developer of the Leapmotor business overseas, and at the same time, being a reference shareholder and letting Leapmotor handle the Chinese business with their Chinese brand, because they are much better than us at doing that.
Those are some of the simple ideas I wanted to share with you, and I will stop here, and, either hand over to Natalie or listen to your questions. Please proceed.
Hey, maybe before we take those questions, let me just add from my side. I mean, I think it's really clear when we look at this deal, that there are three key benefits for us. It, you know, I think, as Carlos mentioned, it puts us in the driver's seat to really capitalize on the demand for Chinese EV products globally. It's also something that's allowing us to partner up with what we think is a strong, up-and-coming player in the world's biggest market, which is very different than what our competitors are doing in terms of trying to do it themselves. And it gives us also this real-time benchmarking of what, you know, we think is some of the strongest cost and technology ecosystem that's in China.
So that piece, I think, are the real benefits in terms of, from my perspective, lots of other cooperation and collaboration opportunities going forward. On the profitability side, I think it's important to note that we believe it's gonna be accretive to our AOI already in 2025, and obviously on a margin perspective, over time, we think it's also gonna positively contribute to our business. And maybe lastly, the other thing I would add is just in terms of looking at this, the EUR 1.5 billion that we're investing is completely in line with our already outlined ambitions around Dare Forward 2030, and that we don't expect this to impact our capital return opportunities in any way. So that's it from my side. I'm ready to open up questions as well.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you'd like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. Our first question goes to Thomas Besson from Kepler. Your line is open. Please go ahead. Mr. Thomas, your line is open. Please go ahead.
Hello, sorry for that. It's Thomas Besson, Kepler Cheuvreux. Thank you for taking my questions. I'll have two, please. First, could you confirm that your investment overall is going to be limited to EUR 1.5 billion, or the EUR 1.5 billion is just for you to take the 21% stake in the company, and then you'll have to invest further for the development of the JV you're going to control? And whether there are eventually some additional cash calls in the future. This is the first question, and the second, very practical, as an analyst, could you explain how this is going to be consolidated in your earnings going forward?
Where are you going to put the 51% contribution on the global business you're going to be controlling from the export of Leapmotor cars? And do you plan to use your own network or to develop a specific network in the frame of what you are doing in terms of reorganization, your distribution in different regions?
The two first questions, Thomas, and thank you for them, are perfect for Natalie to clarify, and I will take the network question at the end. Natalie, would you like to start, please?
Sure. So in terms of your comment on the absolute level of investment, we are talking about with EUR 1.5 billion, it relates directly to the investment, our 20% or 21.3% share in Leapmotor. But there may be other investments in terms of the JV, but remember, these are gonna be small investments. This is essentially a distributorship in terms of how we bring it to market, so you should not expect that to be a big material number. This is... The number, you know, that we're looking at today is the headline number. In terms of the accounting treatment, we're going to have this 51% ownership and, you know, really lead this joint venture, and so that means you'll see it completely consolidated in the Stellantis results.
It'll be part of the AOI going forward, and then we'll back out the minority interest lower in the P&L. In terms of the 20% stake of Leapmotor, you'll see that accounted for. It'll be right in that share of profit and loss of the equity method investees that you see in our P&L as well. Back to you, Carlos.
Thank you, Natalie. Thank you. That sounds super clear, at least for me. Hopefully, it's the same also for Thomas. On the network distribution model, it depends on what the Leapmotor International JV will decide. Of course, we can offer a very, very huge sales and marketing footprint across the world. Of course, in Europe also. The way we are going to go to market, the distribution model, can either align on what the Stellantis is already doing or not align. I will keep things very open because it's a very different business model, it's a very different kind of opportunity. So, at this stage, we don't put in the system any preconceived ideas about what kind of distribution model will be the best.
But of course, we will offer our sales and marketing, distribution network to, to Leapmotor International. And then they will, they will discuss, and we'll support the discussion to see what is the way, that would be the most efficient in the next few years, to go to market. And how does it compare to what the other Chinese carmakers, competitors are, intending to do also in, in Europe. So the distribution model is, not decided. To be decided by the, Leapmotor International JV, after evaluating the pros and cons of the different, models that we can, we can foresee. So far, that's an open item that has not been, discussed or, or, or decided so far, Thomas. I hope that we, we could answer your questions, on the two points you mentioned.
Yes, very clear. Thank you, boss.
Thank you. Once again, if you'd like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. Our next question goes to José Asumendi from J.P. Morgan. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good morning. Two questions, please. On the first one, on speed to market. I understand the joint venture will deliver units already in the second half of 2024. Can you discuss a bit which vehicles or models will drive this growth, and any guidance on the units you're planning? And second, which regions outside of China do you think represent the largest opportunity for this joint venture? And, should we think about any investments to support the growth outside of China?
Well, that's a great question. It is quite visible to all of us that we have a strong push on a certain number of regions. Right now, we see it in Europe, we see it in Africa, Middle East, and we see it in Latin America. The good thing is that we have a very strong dealer network capability and manufacturing capability in all of those three regions. So we have all the tools already, and I don't anticipate that there would be any significant investment to support the overseas profitable growth of Leapmotor. But we see those three regions. We see Europe, it's obvious, some of them are already there. We see Africa, Middle East.
You know, since we made the deal in Algeria, it's very interesting to see that all the guys that come after us, they are all Chinese. There is no Western competitor that is following us in Algeria. And as you may see through the numbers, we have 80% market share right now in Algeria. So we see that they are coming, and they are coming very, very strong. They are coming very strong on those three regions: Europe, Latin America, Africa, Middle East. That's obvious. So we can pick whatever we would like to pick based on our execution capability. I would say that for the rest of the world, it's still quite open.
I was this week in Indonesia introducing the e-CC21, the ë-C3 Citroën BEV that was presented in Europe at EUR 23,300 for the mid-trim. And I was happy to see that in Indonesia, I'm going to be there on the leading pack with BYD and Wuling in that Asian market of 280 million people. Which means that it seems that hopefully, we were able to be on the right tempo to fight with our Chinese competitors. And now we have one more lever to pull, which is called Leapmotor, one of our brands. Given the fact that outside of China, we are in the leading seat for the profitable growth of those sales.
That's what I can answer to you. Basically, Europe, Latin America, Africa, Middle East.
Thank you very much, Carlos.
Once again, if you'd like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. Our next question comes from Martino De Ambroggi from Equita. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good morning, everybody. My first question is on the risk of cannibalization. So I don't know if you perceive the risk of cannibalization inside your product portfolio going forward. And in any case, if you decide to produce these Leapmotor outside China, I suppose producing a third party's model is less profitable. So these are the two main risks. I was wondering if you can elaborate a bit on them. And the second, in the press release and your remarks, you talked about open to explore additional synergies. Just to have an indication, some clues on in which direction you are looking at. Thank you.
Two great questions. You see, on the first one, which is a very normal one and fair one, the way we see it is that with our 14 brands, a powerhouse of brands, we are going to be facing, whatever happens, a Chinese offensive. And the Chinese offensive is going to be driven by companies that have a 30% ex-works cost competitive edge. So whatever happens, our 14 brands will have to face this, and as you may understand through the announcement of the ë-C3, we are ready for the fight. Because as you may guesstimate, when we announce the ë-C3 Europe at EUR 23,300, we are making profit out of that. Which means that we are working so hard on the cost competitiveness. By the way, doesn't always make us very popular, but that's...
We do what we need to do for the company to be competitive. So on this Chinese offensive, I don't think we have a risk of cannibalization. I think the risk we have is, how much share would we eventually lose to the benefit of the Chinese competitors who would have a 30% ex-works competitive edge? Which, by the way, we also have with the ë-C3. So instead of just facing this risk, I am putting on my side, on my portfolio, a Chinese car maker that can compete against the Chinese competitors. So I'm just putting on my side, a Chinese lever, to be able to face the Chinese offensive. Anyway, we are not going to be avoiding the impact and the battle of being a Western company facing a Chinese offensive.
So it's better that, when there is a Chinese car company that comes to the market with a competitive edge, it's better that that offensive benefits to us than to somebody else. And that's exactly what we are doing. We are bringing Leapmotor on our side because we control the overseas profitable growth, and it falls in our P&L as it is a consolidated entity, as Natalie explained. So for us, it's not a matter of, cannibalization with the legacy brands, about bringing one additional tool to be able to compete with the Chinese offensive, and it happens that this tool is a Chinese one, that is going to leverage the same, strong points as, our Chinese competitors. So that's how we see it.
The other thing is that, imagine how powerful it is to have a constant measurement of the ex-works cost competitiveness of Chinese car makers. It's a powerful tool to set the appropriate objectives for, the products we want to bring to the market. Because in terms of cost competitiveness, we can find other parts in the world where we will have a similar cost competitiveness. I could talk about India, I could talk about Morocco, I could talk about a certain number of other places where I can find a reasonably equivalent cost competitiveness, if and only if, I am able to set the appropriate objectives for us to be able to compete. What I already know is that with a EUR 23,300 mid-trim proposal for ë-C3 in Europe, I am probably at that level of price, profitable price.
I am probably the only one to be in the black. Which is good to know, which is good to know. And, and that means that, for me, this is not at all a matter of cannibalization. This is a matter of having one more competitive edge to fight against the Chinese offensive, that anyway, will happen whether we like it or not. So we are just beefing up our own, strategy to be able to compete in a more efficient way. That's my answer to you. Thank you.
Hey, and Carlos, the second part of the question was, our excitement about some of those other synergies and cooperation ideas going forward. I think we've got a lot of ideas there.
We have, Natalie and myself, we have tons of ideas. You know, what we put in that bucket is everything which is not supporting the profitable growth of Leapmotor International, is about additional win-win synergies, which may happen. At one point in time, we may want to make an OEM deal with Leapmotor on a specific model to go faster to the market or the reverse. In some cases, Leapmotor may want to make an OEM deal with Stellantis to go faster in some other markets, because of regulations and customer expectations or whatever. So that kind of additional win-win deals are additional synergies that this partnership will bring to us. And as you know, we are quite used to generating synergies from the numbers that were created so far through the merger of Stellantis.
You can see that we have that kind of mindset. And that is an additional, an additional opportunity that we just put out there, that of course, so far, we did not list or even evaluate, but it's there. And if it is a win-win, then again, we are leveraging the strength of a Chinese car maker to our benefit by generating synergies in both companies. In terms of speed, in terms of investment, in terms of whatever can improve the return and the capability for us to be in the market at the right time with the right proposal to the customer. So that's my answer to you. Hopefully, I answered both questions. Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you very much.
Okay, our next question is from Mike Tyndall, from HSBC. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Hi there. Thanks for taking my question. I've just got two, if I can. The first one's for Natalie. Just to make sure I understand, there are two pieces, if I'm not wrong. So there's the JV, which is essentially a distribution deal, which will be fully consolidated, and then there's the additional equity investment, the 20% stake that you've taken, which will be basically an additional equity contribution. Just want to make sure I've got that correct. And then I guess the second question is, I guess it's a philosophical question. I mean, does this change your position, Mr. Tavares, in terms of the anti-subsidy investigation that's going on in Europe? Is that relevant in this piece because you've now got a lot more skin in the game? Just curious to know if that makes any difference.
Well, I'll take the second question, which is a very political one, and I would like Natalie to answer the first one, which is highly technical.
Yes, and I think it's actually pretty easy because you did call it exactly right, Mike, in terms of that treatment. That's what I said. I think the one comment I didn't add at the beginning is the sales of the JV. JV will come in, in the regions where they occur, but otherwise, it's exactly as you mentioned, that we'll fully consolidate everything from the JV. We'll back out the piece of the minority, and in terms of the 20% stake, you'll see that in its own line item.
Got it.
Thank you, Natalie. On, on the second question, what you have heard me saying for a while is that the way the European Union has been setting the market is very, very friendly to the Chinese offensive, keeping the market very open with a very limited customs duty of 10%. For companies that have a 30% competitive edge, even if you have a 10% plus some logistics, you still have a very, very strong competitive edge when you reach the market where you want to sell your cars. So what I've been saying so far is that creating such a nice highway to invite the Chinese carmakers to come to Europe is putting a significant stress on the European automotive industry. From a competition standpoint, Stellantis, we are fine with that. Why?
Because we are a global company. We are a global company, and because we are a global company, anyway, it is in our best interest to face the harshest possible competition, because if I'm not going to face that competition in Europe, I will have to face it in Africa, or I will have to face it in Latin America or somewhere else. So from a competitive mindset perspective, Stellantis will always try to face the harshest competition because this is the best way for us to progress at the right speed. Nevertheless, it is a very nice proposal for the Chinese to come to Europe, which means in some cases that some automakers will suffer. Not us, because we are ready for the fight, but some others will suffer.
Regarding the probe, there was some background noise about the probe, and I want to be very clear. We will, of course, answer all the questions that will be asked to us by the European Commission, because we are a compliant company, so we will answer all the questionnaires and all the things they want to know from us. That's okay, but it is also important to clarify that we are not the requester, we are not the supporter, and we are not the trigger for this probe. Because anyway, we will have to face the harshest possible competition. If it's not in Europe, it will be in Brazil. If it's not in Brazil, it will be in the Maghreb. If it's not in the Maghreb, it will be in South Africa. If it's not in South Africa, it will be in Indonesia.
If it's not in Indonesia, it will be in Malaysia. Doesn't matter. We will have to face the harshest competition. Which means one way to make sure that our company is not made vulnerable of all of those political moves, is to be able to be sitting on both sides of the line. So we are a global Western company, but we also now have a strategic partnership to support the profitable growth of a Chinese brand with the Chinese attributes and the, and the competitive edges, which to a certain extent, reduces by a significant amount, the vulnerability of our company to the Chinese offensive. In terms of objective setting, that's obvious, but also in terms of bringing to our PNL, the contribution of the profitable growth of the Leapmotor International JV.
So for us, it's a way to bring more value to our shareholders, more profits through the distribution JV, as you call it. It is also a matter to make our objective setting totally relevant, to make sure that we are racing with the right tempo and the right magnitude to face that competition. So that's where we are, and wherever the commission will decide is fine with us. Eventually, it can divert to a certain extent the flow of the offensive. If there is a little bit less in Europe, there will be a little bit more in Africa, Middle East, or a little bit more in Latin America, but anyway, we will have to face them, and it's better to have a Chinese component of our business model to be able to face them.
That's for the short term, short mid-term. If we talk about the mid long term, when I discuss with my investors, generally speaking, the feedback I get from them is that, having an asset light strategy in, in, China is rather perceived as a good thing. And I understand that it's perceived as a good thing when I see the problems of our competitors, and our Western competitors are going south in, in, China. So it's good that we could anticipate that pain, through the asset light strategy.
But now, if we project ourselves in 5 years, 10 years, how much time can a global company like ours, competing for the podium of the automotive industry and the mobility industry, how much time can we remain with such a low level of exposure to the biggest market in the world? So if you think 10 years down the road, you would not like to think that we are missing a fair share of the biggest market in the world. And I'm, I'm talking about 10 years down the road. So there is a point in time where we need to find the right formula to have a productive and added value exposure to the biggest market in the world.
If not, three or five years down the road, you will tell me that you were very, very dumb not to consider a better way to be present in this fast-growing and biggest market in the world. So that's how we see it from a Spirit perspective. Of course, history will tell us if we operated properly and executed the deal properly. Thank you.
Hey, can I add to that? That I think one of the other things that, you know, is important is, when we look at how we're approaching the Chinese market, one of the other things that's sort of an implicit assumption in this, is that we believe the winners in the Chinese market are going to be the Chinese. And people who understand the consumer, who know what is important, who can operate and succeed in that fast technology, very low-cost environment. And that's why we think it's really something unique and special that we're doing by working with one of the pure players right in the market, who has the authenticity, who knows how to do that, as opposed to coming in and trying to play, you know, plug and play a Western formula that we think is antiquated for the future of that market.
Got it. Thank you very much, and thank you, Natalie.
One of the things that was visible today is that when you look at the pure BEV players in China, right now, Leapmotor is number 4. I was told 200 vehicles, 200 sales behind the number 3, which means, Leapmotor has a very significant potential, including in being competitive inside of the Chinese market. And to Natalie's point, which is absolutely on the spot, we have already tried to be successful with Western brands. We did not make it. And we see that even our successful Western competitors are now going south, and they are going south fast. Which means it's better to win in China with a Chinese brand than with a Western brand. That's the bottom line of this, of this move. Thank you. Next question, please.
We will now take our last question from Monica Bosio from Intesa. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Good morning, everyone, and thanks for taking my question. A follow-up on your previous answers. I think that the Chinese market will face a deep consolidation wave over the next years. So, how do you see Leapmotor has positioned in a M&A wave, and do you think that Stellantis will take part to this trend through Leapmotors, maybe with some benefits? Any further color would be appreciated. Thank you very much.
Well, thank you. This is a $1 million question. I don't want to create any kind of speculation, but what I can tell you is very simple. As you know well, first we make money. First, we make money. First, we make significant positive free cash flow. What that means is that when we are in that position, we are in control of our destiny, because we can grasp opportunities, we can move, we can go right or left. So as long as we are a very demanding and profit-driven company, we are in control of our destiny. So does that give us room of maneuver everywhere? Yes, and we can say that everywhere includes China.
But it is also clear that we see that in China there is a significant dynamic of consolidation, and it looks like the Chinese government is fine with that. That may open other opportunities, that may open additional opportunities with Leapmotor. We'll see. Too soon to say, but the least we could say is that we are sitting on the right seats to be somewhere grasping those opportunities if they were to happen. That's the only thing we should say today without creating any kind of speculation, is that being at 21.3% shareholding, just a few tenths behind the founder, we are in a good position to grasp any opportunity that would come.
But we are also in a very good position to observe what is going on in China and then grasp other opportunities, either alone or with Leapmotor. That is, that's quite obvious.... Because we are now having a significant, highly skilled Chinese team working in China, which is something that never happened with Stellantis before. That's my answer to your great question.
Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.
That's all the time we have for questions. Carlos Tavares, at this time, I'll turn the conference back to you for any additional or closing remarks.
Natalie, anything you would like to add to this discussion?
I think the only thing that I would add is, I think we haven't gotten, we probably haven't said yet that, you know, one of the really great things about working with Leapmotor is that this is really a business that we think is poised for great success when we look at the Chinese market. They've got this perfect combination of a tech focus, cost leadership, and I think important also, focus on financials. That's. We haven't mentioned that. They really do have a lot of things improving on that front at the moment, whether it's the gross margin, it's the selling prices, you know, things are really moving in the right direction for that business. And it's also something where we see this super opportunity outside of China as well, which I think will be valuable for us in Europe and other regions in the future.
So it's very, it's a very exciting time to be approaching this in a really industry first way. Back to you.
That's very fair, Natalie. So in fact, the bottom line of all of this is, is the following: We have made a strategic move that is going to prevent any discussion about what's the risk for Stellantis related to the Chinese offensive. Because we are part of the Chinese offensive, and we are going to make sure that that Chinese offensive is going to play to our credit, rather being on the defensive mode and discussing with you to which extent can that impact our financials. So that's the strategic move that we have done, is now the Chinese offensive is going to benefit the P&L of Stellantis, and as Natalie mentioned, accretive from 2025. And now we are in a position where our objective setting for anything that relates to profitable and affordable EVs is based on the best reference of the world.
From now, we are in a position where we can use our fifteenth brand, a Chinese one, to be a success, so not only overseas, but also in China, knowing that in China, the show will be run by the Chinese. So I think that from a strategic perspective, not forgetting the fact that a company like ours cannot stay away from the biggest market of the world forever, I think this strategic move is a very significant move that will bring a lot of return in the future. As you can see from our comments, we are quite confident. At the same time, as always, we are very, very much aware of the amount of work that this represents, the amount of focus, the amounts of care.
And we are, and I am now setting a specific governance for this kind of investment, so that from one side, we avoid any kind of bureaucracy from big Stellantis. From the other side, we give Leapmotor all the support they need to go fast and generate the profitable growth of the Leapmotor's international overseas operations. Thank you for your time. Thank you for caring about Stellantis. We always appreciate the discussion, and I hope to see you very soon. Thank you. Bye-bye.
Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.