Status Update

Mar 31, 2021

Slides

UNIDENTIFIED Good afternoon, and welcome to the Stellantis Hydrogen Fuel Cell Technology event. It's a pleasure to see you all connected throughout the world, so thank you for logging in today. Stellantis is about to unveil its major technological step in the electrified development vehicle, zero emission technology, thanks to hydrogen fuel cell. Next to me on this TV set, four key actors of this new technology. Good afternoon, Karla Goran, your Research and Innovation Senior Vice President. Good afternoon. It's lovely to see you. GURUEL Up at the queue, we have Xavier Peugeot. Good Good afternoon, Xavier. You are Light Commercial Vehicle Business Unit Senior Vice President. Frank Jordan, hello or Guten Tag. You are Research and Innovation Director, Germany. Welcome here in Paris. And last but not least, good afternoon, FRANCOIS Dominique Sadoul, Leroy, Advanced Powertrain and Energy Vice Good afternoon, Dominique. Thank you for all being here today on this TV set. I propose that we step in straight away into our subject with you, Karla. Let's talk about zero emission and especially for Stellantis today. Our Stellantis mission is clearly to provide freedom of mobility with safe, distinctive, affordable and sustainable solutions. And sustainability is, of course, means for us paving the way towards zero emission technologies. The first chapter of this transition is already a reality by the electrification and the battery technology solutions that we are implementing throughout all our ranges. And it is meant today to be a reality today by more than 39 electrified models by the end of this year. But within Stellantis, we are also aiming to keep and to be at the forefront of innovation by preparing the next steps of this transition, finding new trades off between, of course, customer expectations, technologies, providing complementarity of solutions and, of course, finding also new solutions to provide higher range level and also charging time improvement. In all these fields, clearly, hydrogen fuel cell technology has strong assets, specifically for light commercial vehicle applications. And so that's why I'm very, very eager to present to you our Stellantis solutions to step in this new chapter of electrification. Thank you very much, Kala, for these words of introduction. Xavier, what about the light commercial vehicles? If you remember, Sandi, we revealed and launched it was in October 2020 our electric medium van. It was for our brands. And so concretely, the Peugeot e Expert, the Citroen eJMP, the Opel Vivaro e and Vauxhall Vivaro e. We've immediately met very positive feedbacks and successful feedbacks from customers, more than 7,500 units sold. And we're also very proud to have received the prestigious award of International Van of the Year. As you understand, this electric medium van is part of a complete electrification strategy for our LCD. We recently launched our large van in the electric version. We also recently revealed the electric small van, which will be sold by the end of this year, which means that by the 2021, as promised, we'll have the entire LCV range fully electrified and which I think is a very good asset. But I would like to come back to two figures connected to the electric medium van. The first one is 83% of our customers drive on average less than 200 kilometers a day. The second figure is that 44% of the customers never drive more than 300 kilometers a day. So which means that there are still a share of customers who are keen to drive more than 300 kilometers, and we need to provide them with an additional and complementary answer, which is the purpose of the day. And this is why we've decided to go for the hydrogen fuel cell medium van offer in order to expand the coverage of customer needs and also complete the zero emission offer that we are providing. Thank you, Xavier. Talking about hydrogen fuel cell technology, Frank, could you take us maybe a bit more into detail on Of that, this course. I'm very proud to be here today and talk about our newest technology. It's a hydrogen fuel cell zero emission technology. What we use is we use a right sized fuel cell, a little bit smaller than most of the competitors are using, combine it with a large battery. This gives us the effect that we can drive the electric motor by both sources, the fuel cell and the battery itself. By combining this, we have a couple of advantages and keeping all the standard fuel cell advantages like long range and fast refueling time. In this combination, we add a couple of more advantages. First of all, we can make use of our multi energy architecture. We can improve the package situation because the future stack itself is smaller. We can improve the cost situation because we have smaller fuel cell stack. And we can also improve the efficiency of the vehicle because we can use the fuel cell and the optimum operating point and also getting regeneration energy to the battery by deceleration and by braking of the car. That's a win win situation for the system we selected to do here on our LCV program. It's, of course, complementary to the full electric version as we have some customer needs for longer range and for faster refueling times. It's not a step two or a step that will be, actually, BEF, of course, a system of the past that will stay in parallel to the best system, of course. Hydrogen will, of course, be a major pillar in the energy transition towards green energy in whole Europe, and you'll see it also in Asia and in The U. S. So all the governments are investing heavily in the ecosystem, and that's why we now are ready and present the car that fits to this ecosystem. It's a perfect match. You see the European Clean Hydrogen Alliance estimates around €60,000,000,000 that they want to invest in this ecosystem. So it's a huge amount of money done in Europe and all in the world. There are activities like this ongoing to really help now paving a way into a hydrogen green energy ecosystem. Stellantis, of course, want to have and will have a leading role in this. And we today unveil the first step of more steps to come to really be part of this very interesting, very challenging new step into zero emission energy. Thank you very much for all this detailed introduction. Let's hear now from Lars Peter Thiesen in the video to come. He tells us more about the history but also the challenges of this new technology. What is a fuel cell? A fuel cell combines hydrogen and air to form water vapor and electricity to drive an electric motor. So unlike batteries, the fuel cell is an energy converter, not a storage. Based on this principle, a fuel cell electric vehicle offers a unique combination of three properties: zero emission, long driving range, and most prominently only three minutes refueling time. There is no other propulsion system in the world that offers this combination. Since more than twenty years, the auto industry has developed fuel cell electric vehicles. So why did it take so long? Because crucial questions had to be answered within the auto industry and far beyond. What is the right fuel for the fuel cell vehicle? What is the right storage method for hydrogen on board the vehicle? How to do refueling, how to enable cold start, and what about durability and safety. These technological hurdles had to be overcome. But more importantly, common awareness, understanding, and agreement had to be achieved among all stakeholders involved, be it the auto industry, oil, gas, energy companies as well as governmental bodies. For the first time in over a hundred years of automotive development, hydrogen and fuel cell technology has brought us far beyond the automobile because hydrogen is seen as the central element of a future integrated and efficient energy system free of fossil fuels. As an energy carrier, hydrogen will connect the areas of power generation, heat supply, industry, and transportation. We at Celantis have more than twenty years of experience in all areas of hydrogen and fuel cell technology. The know how ranges from systems engineering, hydrogen storage and refueling, controls and calibration, prototype build and test up to demonstration fleet operation. We have been developing several generations of fuel cell electric vehicles with different architectures, pioneering in fuel cell system integration, cold start performance as well as onboard 700 bar hydrogen storage and refueling, which is the standard today. Based on this, we can say that at present, four challenges are remaining. First, full scale production of green hydrogen at economically viable cost. This goal is the focus of the recent European as well as national hydrogen strategies, reflecting promisingly the scale at which this significant and far reaching topic needs to be handled. Second, we need nationwide networks of hydrogen filling stations, as is the case, for example, in Germany with a basic nationwide coverage established already operated by H2 Mobility. Appropriate programs are planned in other countries as well. In general, however, investment in hydrogen filling station infrastructure still needs to be increased. Third, the integration of the fuel cell system into the vehicle platform. Our light commercial vehicle presented today shows the smart approach of how to do that with a focus on maximizing customer value. And finally, cost. By focusing on total cost of ownership, Stellantis has set itself the goal to make this technology profitable over the coming years. The key for this, economies of scale to get to high volumes as quickly as possible. After a long journey, we know that these four remaining challenges are not unsurmountable. This is why we are working with such a great passion on this technology. Dominique, the LCV that we see behind you in the screen, is it really 100 emission? Yes, of course. The fuel cell technology is a zero emission one. In fact, the vehicle absorbs ambient air, combine it with gaseous hydrogen embedded, produce its one electricity on board and rejects only pure power pure water. To get our modernised capability, we have to consider this kind of technology, in fact, to fulfill the coverage needed by customer. And if we enlarge your question to the overall life cycle of the vehicle, including ICE2 production, we have some studies, for example, in France, one made by Adam. We have some studies that show that fuel cell vehicle has global warming potential at the same level as a battery electric vehicle, of course, by using green hydrogen. And we saw just before that many European investment are put on to provide to help, in fact, to develop hydrogen green hydrogen ecosystem especially to enable zero emission hydrogen mobility. Thank you very much, Dominique. It's very clear now. Karla, prior to your event, we met with you a few days ago to talk about the basics but also to come back on the genesis of this project. Let's hear from you. In this race for electrification through battery technologies and electrified powertrains, why did we choose to step in this hydrogen new era of electrification? First of all, to answer our customer needs and expectations. In fact, in light commercial vehicle applications, not all the usage profiles can be covered by battery electric propulsion. Indeed, for business requirements, these customers are requesting even more zero emission long range solutions, taking into account the fact that wide majority of these vehicles operates in peri urban areas as well as city centers, while zero emission solutions are becoming more and more essentials. And at the same time, preserve one of their primary function, which is transportation of large and heavy items by protecting their payload. The second major expectation is on charging time needed to be shorter and shorter because their operational model frequently does not allow for periods of unavailability during recharging processes. Therefore, given these boundary conditions, it was a logical consequence to direct our research and development efforts towards the hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicle for first applications on light commercial vehicles as a complementary solution for battery electric propulsion. In order to meet these requirements, the chosen architecture should not allow for any compromise. This meant that all propulsion system specific components had to be integrated outside the cargo space and best integrated in our current LCV electrified platform to leverage maximum synergies, maximum carryovers between full battery electric platform and the next hydrogen one to come. In fact, Stellantis is simply designing the next generation of multi energy platforms for LCVs, full battery electric propulsion and hydrogen one. That's why we chose our existing medium vans, Citroen Jumpy, Peugeot Expert and Opel Vivaro to launch our first project. These enable rapid adaptation with frugal investments and fast integration of our existing production processes. To offer a range of more than 400 kilometers and a refueling time of only three minutes and substantial energy recovery capacity, we designed a mid power architecture fuel cell system combining the advantages of both hydrogen and battery technology. The hydrogen provides the energy needed for long driving range, whereas the additional small battery provides the power for dynamic performances. For the development of these two main systems, which are the fuel cell stacks and the storage system, we have entered into strategic partnerships with Faurecia and Symbio. These two companies are currently developing hydrogen storage systems and fuel cell stacks at best in class technologies. In a spirit of effective collaboration, these partnerships enable Celentis to offer a zero emission vehicle that will fully meet our customers' needs. We now have the full picture of the genesis of the project, but let's come back on the smart and innovative mid power architecture you were talking about with Peter Gross. Let me introduce you to our zero emission fuel cell hydrogen technology in detail. In fact, we are talking about a plug in fuel cell electric vehicle. Have a look at this diagram. When defining the general configuration of a fuel cell electric vehicle architecture, there is a broad range of how to do this. The extremes are, on the right hand side, a full power fuel cell system in which a large fuel cell represents the main propulsion source under all operating conditions. This requires a large and powerful fuel cell and a small battery. In contrast, on the left hand side, you see the other extreme range extender system. In principle, this is a battery electric vehicle with a large battery and an additional small low power fuel cell that enables to extend the range of the vehicle by providing power to the battery. However, when the battery is empty, the fuel cell won't be able to provide enough power to propel the vehicle as a whole. Only a limp home functionality at low speed is possible. Given customer requirements, we have chosen to use the intermediate concept for our vehicle between full power and range extender, a mid power fuel cell. This approach offers four major benefits to compare to a full power and range extender concept: packaging, performance, durability and cost. All these aspects lead to benefits for our customers. And last but not least, compared to a pure battery electric vehicle, the hydrogen fuel cell offers improved range and a huge advantage of three minutes refueling time. What are the advantages of our mid power plug in hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicle? First, it enables smart packaging compared to a full power system. Since a mid power fuel cell is also mid sized, the whole system can be integrated under the hood of a series production battery electric vehicle. In addition, the propulsion battery is replaced by three hydrogen tanks. By doing this, we convert the battery electric vehicle into a fuel cell electric vehicle without any modifications to the body and thus, without any impact on cargo space and even payload. And at the same time, the vehicle is capable of providing more than 400 kilometers of driving range in the WLTP cycle. Second, compared to a range extender system, there is no compromise to be made with a mid power system in terms of performance. The fuel cell system is capable of providing enough power for continuous highway speed. When required, dynamic peak power is provided by the battery located under the front seats. Third, since the battery covers power requirements at conditions like acceleration, start up and first mile, durability targets are better met compared to a full power system because the fuel cell system can run at optimum operating conditions. In addition, the battery enables regenerative braking. This means to regain energy while braking. And in case of limited hydrogen refueling station availability, the plug in capability offers the opportunity to recharge the battery externally when needed, providing pure battery electric range to get to the next station. The final benefit of the approach are the balanced system costs compared to a full power fuel cell architecture. We compensate high fuel cell system cost by a midsized fuel cell combined with a volume production plug in hybrid battery. On top of that, we utilize an existing volume production battery electric vehicle as the base. Xavier, who is the client for the hydrogen fuel cell medium van? With this hydrogen version of our medium van, we are clearly targeting new customers through usages which are complementary to those already provided by electric medium vans. So as you heard, and to make it concrete and simple, we've got three main benefits. The first one is obviously a fast refueling, less than three minutes. The second one is clearly an enhanced autonomy, which is quite significantly above 400 kilometers. And three, that's very important to us, the fact that there is no compromise on performances. We are talking on LCV to professional buyers for very professional usages. And so and they are not prepared to when switching to a zero emission vehicle to weaken the performances they already know on other engines. So we decided to go for the right balance with this level of performances in terms of autonomy and refueling and at the same time, to keep exactly the same level of performances, which should be about payload, volumes, etcetera. So we'll be able to offer to our customers an hydrogen version which will enable them to go to urban city centers, peri urban city centers, and at the same time, to go for long distance run. Okay. Thank you, Xavier. Frank, are we actually ready for these clients? Yes, of course, we are ready. So we mastered after twenty years of experience with the experts and my team, we mastered all aspects of the technology. So we really are capable to deliver this technology. And besides that, you see that we have so many governance investments now. The ecosystem is building up, so it's now time to do the next step, and the next step is going into production. And going into production means, first of all, for us really starting the production, but secondly, also to work with both the energy providers and the B2B customers to be ready on the whole page and not just for our product itself. And that's what we are doing intensively. What we see now and where we are today, we started at OSVs, that's Opel Special Vehicles, to do the preproduction cars. So my experts on fuel cell are training the workers to build the first cars, and the same people will soon also be in the production line and assembling the cars for the customers. So yes, we are ready. Well, let's go to the Russellheim Pilot Workshop then, and Dirk Wessel takes us around. Let's have a look at the assembly of our plug in fuel cell electric light commercial vehicle. This is done at Opel Special Vehicles in Oselsheim, Germany, a facility where our colleagues regularly build specific vehicle variants like taxis, police cars, ambulances or fire engines A main sump system of the fuel cell drivetrain to be integrated into the battery electric base vehicle are the fuel cell system, the hydrogen tank assembly and the plug in battery. The fuel cell system is mounted entirely in the engine compartment on top of the existing electric traction system to which it supplies the electricity. The additional battery, providing dynamic peak power and allowing for regenerative braking, has been adopted from our plug in hybrid electric vehicle program. It is placed underneath the seats in the passenger compartment. Like in pure battery electric vehicles, the battery can be recharged externally by connecting it to the electric grid. At the position underneath the vehicle, where in the battery electric version, the large traction battery is located, the 700 bar hydrogen tank system providing hydrogen to the fuel cell is placed. It consists of three vessels arranged longitudinally in the subframe, which is attached to the vehicle using the same mounts as for the traction battery in the battery electric version. The tanks can be filled with hydrogen within just a few minutes via a specific filler neck integrated into the vehicle in the rear where normally the filler neck for the diesel fuel is located. Integrating the components of the entire fuel cell propulsion system, as described, leads to the fact that the same cargo space is available, like in the internal combustion engine version. After being assembled in the workshop, the preproduction vehicles are ready for tests and validation on our proving grounds and public road. These are the professional next steps of our development process before small cells production can start. Thank you, Dirk, for the tour. And I remind you that if you do have any questions, we have a live Q and A session in a few minutes. So do not hesitate to send them over, and we will be moderating them on our TV set. Xavier, when will it be possible to actually order these hydrogen medium bands? JAIME That's a very important question because today, we are all together not just to make an announcement as we did for the electric medium band. This hydrogen version of our medium van is something concrete. That's a real project, which is live. And we expect the first delivery to take place before the end of this year, before the 2021. So for this first step of sales, we will sell this car under the Peugeot, Citroen and Opel brands. We will sell left hand drive versions only, two lengths, the medium one and the large one. We will focus on the light commercial vehicle only for this first step, passenger car to come later on. And we'll obviously target professional users, business to business buyers. That's going to be a reality very soon. Okay. So 2021. Our for eyes the orders to come. You so much. Carla, it seems like you are actually positioning yourselves as pioneers of this technology. I guess a lot of work has been done in last few months. Yes, exactly. Lots of work, but I fully agree. We are clearly pioneering in this technology. First of all, we are pioneering because, of course, with our MID architecture MID power architecture, we are clearly stepping in this fuel technology, hydrogen fuel cell technology in a very optimized way. Second, we are also pioneering because just as Xavier mentioned, we are not talking about a new fleet demonstration, new prototypes. We are clearly building a new B2B offer that will be fully complementary to e powertrain LCVs. Third point, in which, of course, we are also pioneering, is that we are highly and closely related to answering customer needs and finding the best compromises, leveraging our assets, leveraging, of course, our platform assets and minimizing our investments with this mid architecture power. So clearly, we are aiming to lead the race towards this hydrogen transition, and Stellantis is just starting this new story, building this new chapter of this zero emission transition. And we understand that timing is key. Thank you for this sum up and the words of conclusion, Carla, before starting our live Q and A session in a few minutes. I propose that we listen to German Federal Transport Minister, Andreas Chauert and our French Transport Minister, Jean Baptiste Debari, who both, of course, support the hydrogen technology as an ecological transition. We'll be back just after that. Stay with us. Ladies and gentlemen, you are making history today because today, you are setting the ground for the future decades of mobility. You are showing us it's through European cooperation that you will make it. You are pushing boundaries no one had pushed before. If we want carbon neutrality by 02/1950, we need electric vehicles and we need hydrogen vehicles. Above all, we need to innovate and that's what you are doing. Actually, that's what you have been doing for over twenty years by believing and investing in fuel cell hydrogen. Just a few days ago, I was visiting the Faurecia R and D lab in Bavon. I saw what would be part of your vehicles. Of course, there is still a long way to go. And I want to tell you, we will be there. We will be there to support the offer, vehicles R and D and manufacturing as well as hydrogen production and distribution. We will be there to support the demand and more incentives for buyers. And we will be there to support the national development of fueling stations with local hydrogen hubs. By 02/1930, we are investing €7,000,000,000 in hydrogen with two priorities, producing green hydrogen and developing mobility. I know we need to do more for light commercial vehicles, and we will do more. I truly believe France and Europe can be leaders on hydrogen. And when I see Stellantis' commitment, it only strengthens my conviction. Congratulations to you all. LECORVAISIER:] Inspirational and optimistic speeches here. Let's start our Q and A session. Lots of questions already during this the last few minutes. Thank you so much for sending them over. Dominique, let's start with you. The first question is why having two sources of energy, electric battery and hydrogen? So fuel cell electric vehicle is firstly an electric vehicle powered by a new motor, so an electric motor. As you said, and unlike the conventional battery electric vehicle, we have on this kind of vehicle two sources of energy, hydrogen and electricity stored in the battery. Why we use these two sources of energy? In fact, it's to combine the best of the two technology to have the best efficiency. In fact, if we start with hydrogen, we use hydrogen for what? For energy. We need energy to go far in a vehicle. And we're using hydrogen because we have some advantages to do that. The first advantage, of course, is, as we already said, the fast refueling potential. You can recover more than 90% of the total energy of the vehicle in only three minutes. So we could have a long trip with this kind of vehicle. Second advantage is that the fact that the electrochemical reaction provide heat. And with this heat, we have the thermal comfort all along the year. And we have the same in fact, the same range if we consider that we have in winter or in summer. So it's a very good point. The third advantage is that we could recharge the battery directly by using the stack and we have not to connect to plug the battery on a grid to recharge it. So we use hydrogen for energy. Concerning the power, we use the battery because the battery allows us to recover more energy for each deceleration, for example, when the driver push down the brake pedal. The power provided by the battery allows to for us to design a smaller stack and to put it in the engine base. So we preserve the cargo volume and its potential characteristic for this kind of vehicle. At the end, with the battery, as we have also energy in the battery, we have up to 50 kilometer additional range with the battery. Thank you, Dominique. Next question is for you, Frank. Interesting question. I could have actually questioned this one. What happens actually if hydrogen runs out? Yes. If hydrogen runs out, and Dominique just told us, it's the beauty of our system. We have a chance to drive 50 kilometers purely on electricity. So every time you have a socket around, you can charge the battery, and you have this autonomy, pure electric. Of But course, we hope that hydrogen doesn't run out and the infrastructure is building up so fast that customers can really use the beauty of long ranges on hydrogen. But in case, especially in the first years, maybe there's a coverage that's not as optimum as it should be, you can always try for electric. Okay. So we have the plan B. Carla, you made different technological choices than the others. OEM, why? So first of all, just as Dominic said, because for us, it's the best way to take the best of both energies, hydrogen for wide range extension and electric batteries, of course, to fulfill the dynamic performances. Second point is that, of course, we wanted to leverage our own assets in our LCV platforms. And we know we have some strength in this area. And so a way also to go very quickly in implementing this hydrogen fuel cell technology within an existing platform was this best way to have and to choose this power architecture. Third point, just as also mentioned by Dominique, it is clearly with this mid power fuel cell stack, a way to improve competitiveness of the solution and cost, of course, of the solution. And last but not least, clearly, this way was also a very good compromise, tapping the customer needs, just as mentioned by Xavier, and making us able to have this complementary solution between electrified LCV solutions and this hydrogen one. UNIDENTIFIED Thank you, Carla. Next question is for you, Xavier. Will other brands of Celentis use the hydrogen fuel cell technology? I guess that they're talking about Fiat and maybe Vauxhall. JEAN As I said, we will, for this first step, focus on some specific versions and dedicated to the Peugeot, Citroen and Opel brands. That's going to be soon before the end of this year. But as you can imagine, having in mind the huge potential and portfolio of brands and products within the Stellantis company, we've already started thinking about potential new steps. It's a bit too early to say more about it. But with so many brands, so many products, obviously, we have some ideas, and we'll probably come back later to give more information. To extend it. Carla, will you share this technology with Toyota, which is your partner in compact and medium vans? First of all, as you have understood, this brand new technology is the Cellentis one, clearly. And but of course, in order to find new opportunities and being able also to decrease the cost of this technology, we will look at all the collaborations possible. But of course, also focusing on how we are providing answers to our customers and really, of course, having this high importance on the way we improve optimize investments and be at the same time also very quick in the implementation of these solutions. Frank, we saw that the R and D department is located in Ruesselsheim in Germany. Could we say that this technology is German and French? Yes, it's German and French. We have most of the people in Germany as there's a home for the center of competence and the experience is there. But without Dominic's teams, we would never have the product where it is today. And don't forget, we have two strategic partners, Zombieo and Faurecia, which are both French companies. So it's really Germany and France. And of course, we're working international in whole Europe. But if you want to say it this way, it's a German French technology. Okay. We like that. Xavier, will all European countries be considered by the hydrogen LCV launch? We've made the homologation for this hydrogen medium band for European countries first. And as you know, in Europe, there are two countries which are, as you said, frankly leading the way, clearly pioneers in this hydrogen ecosystem, France and Germany. Obviously, we are confident that other countries will follow. And at Stellantis, we will support the development of full hydrogen ecosystem in additional countries, we are absolutely confident that this will come. You, Xavier. Carla, next question, very interesting question. Everybody knows that hydrogen technology is expensive. What is your vision on the topic? I fully agree. Clearly, it was in the video, it was also assessed that it is still one of the key challenges we need to overcome. But looking at these costs of the technology, I think that it's also a never ending story of the chicken and egg. So we need, first, to find the best architecture, the most competitive one. And through our mid power architecture, I think we have it. Second, of course, we need to start. And looking at the overall ecosystem that is just growing, being also highly and intensively developed within the European context, this is the moment. So ramp up in order to bring volumes and to be able, of course, through effects of scale to minimize and But decrease last and last but not least, maybe very important thing is that this cost decrease aims and we aim to build it through really real customers. And so we are not talking once again to prototypes. We will have real B2B customers feeding them with real solutions and, of course, highlighting and building this ramp up in order to decrease costs. Absolutely. I understand the scheme. Xavier, is there enough refueling stations ROBERTO in France but also in Europe The process of implementing new refueling station has obviously started, mainly in France and Germany. There are currently 25 stations in France, 90 in Germany. These figures will continue to increase. And obviously, we are working with lots of energy providers in order to be able to offer fully packaged offers, which includes filling station, in order to be able to progressively accelerate these numbers. And again, I think that this will come. When we hear what the two ministers says, I mean, they will be also helping you on this. Domenique, Dominique, why not offer offer more hydrogen hydrogen tank tank to to have a a lot lot more than 400 kilometer of range? Range? DOCTOR. Oh, it's just a compromise we made. As we have a short time to refuel the vehicle, in fact, this will not be an issue for the customer. So we decided, in fact, to prioritize the main characteristic, payload and cargo volume. And so at the end, we are just one driver to be customer centric. You. Gala, will there be a hydrogen offer for passenger cars? UNIDENTIFIED So as you have understood clearly, we are today putting the priority on these LCDs, applications and professional users because we are answering specific expectations and needs that are today not fully answered by the electric versions. So let's go because we are not pushing technology for pushing technology. So that's why we are really customer centric and leading this first step in this LCD path. But of course, looking and seeing the ramp up, also looking at the extension of the ecosystem, the charging and refueling ecosystem that will be provided within Europe, it makes sense, of course, to look at the application for next generations on passenger cars. But this will be part of our hydrogen strategy within Cemtis, also bringing this technology to all the brands of the group. And so yes, this will be part of the next steps. We will see that in the future. Thank you, Carla. Frank, first question about competitors. How does it differ from Toyota Mirai and Hyundai Nexo? Yes. It's a little bit like the question Kara just answered. We our analysis shows that the need is more on the commercial professional side and not so much on the private customer side. So we clearly focused on this customer group. Toyota and Hyundai, they had a different path. So they started with a full fuel cell architecture versus we do multi energy, was really the benefit of having lower investments and converting a car that is already developed. Hyundai and Toyota did it in a different way. So I strongly believe we do it right because we know our customer base. We know where the market will develop in Europe especially. And we also are more cost sensitive in our architecture solution using a mid power range fuel cell and also having a multi energy architecture, that's the right way to do it. Competitors are different. We believe we are on the right path, definitely. Xavier, we were expecting such a question. Have you already estimated the cost for these vehicles? Of course, we have. But I think that although we want to go fast and we want to be concrete, as you understand, first deliveries before the end of this year, we would like to go step by step. So today, we are announcing the project. We are giving first deadline, But which is first deliveries by the end of this please give us a little more time to explain and give all the information, and they will come in the coming days, weeks and months in order progressively to establish all the ingredients to go for a successful launch as we always do. It's been the best strategy. Question for Frank. Are there any additional safety measures required for fuel cell vehicle? Yes. Of course, safety is the highest good for our customers. Safety has our highest priority. We cannot compromise safety at all. The car was developed to the highest standards. We already consider standards that will come in the next generations or not the current ones, already the ones in the pipeline. We So want to be absolutely sure that the car is as safe as possible. We have a reinforcement structure around the fuel cell tank. We have a lower cover to protect for stones. We did everything possible to make sure that the tanks are protected. And we are sure that with this concept and we have pressure valves switching off the system in case of a leak, we are absolutely we do everything possible. We did all the safety analysis. The car is as safe as every car group. Cylantes is developing. There is no compromise on safety. It was really, from the very first day, a key role to say this car needs to be safe because we want to have a product for customers and not demonstrate our car. So that's a big, big change. And we do everything possible. The car is safe. Thank you, Frank. All safe there. That's going to be our question, Carla. What are the next steps of the fuel cell road map? Okay. So just as you have understood, our first launches are really focused on these midsized vans from Peugeot, Citroen and Opel, of course. But we are scientists, so we will have, of course, in the next LCVs range and lineups, new opportunities with all the brands of the group. So this is clearly the second step, how we could leverage our technology to the other brands on this LCV application first. And after that, as I mentioned, of course, looking also at how the ecosystem will grow because, of course, it will be part of the solution and the availability of the solution. We will look, of course, at the implementation of this technology on passenger cars lineups. And I think that one of the most important strengths we have is that we are Cenatist. So we have 40 brands clearly asking to build these next steps on this zero emission transition solutions. So I think that we will continue to lead the race in this transition, in this hydrogen new technology, a new chapter, of course, of the technology for Cylindis. And I'm sure it'll have a great impact on the market, obviously. This is the end of our Q and A session. This is the end of our event. Yes, eventually, we do have to say goodbye. Thank you for sending all your questions over. Thank you, Karla, Xavier, Franck and Dominique for being here today on our TV set and answering all these very interesting questions. Good luck for all the work that has to be done. Congratulations for all the work that has been done. Very exciting road ahead. Just before ending, let's see a little video of the great partnership between Cenantis, Faurecia and Symbiote. Have a nice end to your day, and see you very soon.