Good morning, everyone. I think it is about the time. Good morning again. My name is Voranart, the IR Manager. I would like to welcome you to SPRC Analyst Meeting for the first quarter 2026. Before we begin, I would like to introduce SPRC management team who are present in the meeting with me today. First, Khun Herbert Matthew Payne II, our CEO. Second, Khun Shashank Nanavati, Executive Vice President, Commercial. Third, Khun Nutsara Somkiatweera, Vice President, Finance and Accounting.
Good morning.
Khun Nongnapa Thongpitukthavorn, Vice President, Strategy, Policy and Development.
Good morning.
We will refer to the presentation that is available on SPRC website. Today, for the meeting, Khun Matthew will begin with key strategy and highlight, followed by performance analysis by Khun Shashank and Khun Nutsara , and ending in the looking ahead session with Khun Nongnapa. If you have any questions, please click on the right-hand button or send your question through the chat channel. As a reminder, this virtual meeting is being recorded. At this time, I will turn the session over to our CEO, Khun Matthew, please go ahead.
Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining and thank you for your interest in SPRC. I will start this quarter with how we have navigated recent disruptions and how we are reinforcing resilience through disciplined operations and financial stewardship. Over the past months, the operating environment has been unusually volatile, driven by geopolitical uncertainty, logistics constraints, and rapid shifts in crude and product markets. Our response has been structured in two primary phases. First phase is the challenging phase of absorbing the impact of all of this change. First, we focused on stabilizing our operations and protecting reliability. Beyond mitigating the impact of the geopolitical uncertainty, we also needed to complete executing our T&I and executing a timely and disciplined return to service after the T&I was completed. The T&I time was a critical milestone for SPRC.
We successfully resumed operations with the CDU completed in February and the FCC completed on March 8th, ahead of schedule. This achievement is essential to sustaining long-term production reliability and enhancing our operational efficiency and supporting sustainable returns for the future. At the same time, we enhanced our flexibility amid geopolitical volatility in four key areas. First, our strategic crude diversification. We strengthened our supply security and our operational resilience by diversifying our crude sourcing beyond the Middle East. Today, we are sourcing from multiple regions, including West Africa, North America, and Southeast Asia, all with an objective of being more flexible around our crude sourcing as the situation requires. We actively manage incremental costs associated with diversification, including the war risk premiums, and we leverage support from our strategic shareholders. In particular, we are working closely with our strategic shareholder, covering crude evaluation, trading, and vessel chartering.
This makes sure that we gain market intelligence quickly and can identify the most economic alternatives to Middle Eastern crude. Second phase is in operational optimization. We have enhanced our operating flexibility to process a broader range of crude mixes that allow us to maintain a higher utilization and to maximize our product margins. We also ensure product availability to meet contracted volume commitments while also making uncommitted volume optional so that we can capture upside when the market conditions are good. Third, logistics optimization. We have improved scheduling and execution across the entire supply chain to ensure that crude arrives at the right time, supporting sustained throughput and minimizing bottlenecks at our refinery. This is also supported by close coordination with our strategic shareholder. The fourth area is in distribution optimization.
We maintain adequate domestic supply while sustaining sales momentum across all of our sales channels, supported by agile supply management to respond quickly to demand shifts and rapid market changes. That's the first phase. The second phase, the reinforcement phase, reinforcing our operational continuity. After we stabilize the operations in phase I and restore the refinery safely and on schedule, we now move to the second phase. Here, the focus shifts away from absorbing the disruption to sustaining continuity and protecting our competitiveness for the remainder of the year. We do this with a view that conditions will remain challenging with ongoing volatility, with ongoing geopolitical uncertainty, and the risk of elevated war risk premiums, crude differentials, and higher freight costs, factors that could put pressure on refining margins.
We are preserving competitiveness by combining operational excellence with strict cost efficiency. On operations, we're improving margins by optimizing our crude slate, including more light crude, to maximize product margins, sustaining a strong focus on high-value jet production and advancing Euro 5 related upgrades. In parallel, we continue to optimize process and yields to operate closer to our design capacities. On cost, we're maintaining tight OPEX discipline, cutting non-essential spending, and prioritizing our spending on what delivers the highest value. We're also reinforcing capital discipline by using investors' capital conservatively and with strict control, only investing where our returns are clear and compelling. At the same time, we're actively managing our portfolio to enhance our earnings stability, including expanding into more resilient channels such as retail. Finally, we are safeguarding our liquidity through disciplined cash flow management to preserve financial flexibility.
This ensures that we can fund our future crude procurement cycles, that we can manage our inventories, absorb higher costs, including these war risk premiums and freight, and continue essential capital expenditures so that we stay prepared for potential inventory losses in a down cycle while continuing to support Thailand's energy security. We've just moved from absorbing shocks to reinforcing our resilience through disciplined execution, stronger operational flexibility, and prudent financial management. Importantly, this resilience is also a part of our commitment to Thailand's energy security. SPRC is committed to play our role as a reliable refinery and marketer, helping to ensure a stable national fuel supply. We will support the country through end-to-end cooperation across crude sourcing, production, and fuel distribution, and we'll be ready to support government initiatives as requested within the legal framework, with good governance principles, and with our operational capabilities.
We also continue to advance our business continuity and social responsibility together while upholding the highest standards of safety, product quality, and ensuring a stable energy supply for Thailand. With that commitment in mind, we're now focused on execution. We will deliver with discipline, putting every effort into navigating this cycle. Next, I think it's important that we discuss some of the uncertainties that come with this time. These are largely driven by external factors beyond our control. Within that context, let me highlight the main uncertainties and headwinds that we are facing. Starting with market uncertainty, the first is the oil price volatility. Crude is often procured months in advance and priced months in advance, and rapid price movements can create a timing mismatch between crude costs and product prices, putting pressure on margins and potentially driving inventory valuation swings.
Also, crack spreads across key products can shift abruptly with changes in supply and demand, trade flows, and policy actions. The combination of higher crude costs and weaker cracks could materially reduce profitability and extend the cash conversion cycle. Secondly, we have demand volatility. Shifts in demand can create utilization constraints, especially when oversupply and export restrictions tighten logistics and increase storage and related costs. In a soft market, we must also stay attentive to customer credit uncertainty, as liquidity can tighten across the entire downstream value chain. Finally, we have policy uncertainty. Change in government measures can create regulatory uncertainty that affects pricing dynamics, operating conditions, and the timings of cash flows.
Recently, Thai authorities have implemented several measures to stabilize domestic fuel prices, such as the Oil Fuel Fund support, temporary extra refinery diesel price discounts in April and May, and a refined product export ban, restrictions on exports. These actions increase our working capital needs, can weaken refinery margins and operating cash flows, and impact SPRC's competitiveness and crude sourcing. How does that impact us financially? Well, refinery performance can be volatile as these market conditions shift. Inventory gains or losses are highly sensitive to crude price movements, and if crude prices normalize following the tensions, we could see meaningful inventory losses pressuring earnings. At the same time, refining margins may come under pressure from unstable crack spreads or elevated crude premiums and higher freight costs.
Liquidity may also come under pressure from higher working capital requirements, primarily driven by elevated crude oil costs, which increase the funding needs for inventory, potentially leading to additional financing expenses. In addition, operating cash inflows may be delayed due to government measures, including the Oil Fuel Fund subsidy. Mainly from the Oil Fuel Fund subsidy. Given these uncertainties, we continually assess developments and activities, and take practical contingency steps to mitigate these impacts. We focus on operational resilience, so we protect the reliability and flexibility of our supply chain. We maintain disciplined procurement strategies, making sure that we optimize our crude sources and enhance our operational flexibility. We also reinforce our procurement governance by closely monitoring and managing exposures across the crude sourcing inventory levels and working capital, supported by robust market tracking and timely decision-making.
On the financial side, we prioritize cash flow management through disciplined cost control, prudent working capital management, and close monitoring of our cash positions while maintaining adequate liquidity buffers so that we can access credit facilities to support ongoing operations. In parallel, we apply customer credit management with continuous monitoring of the creditworthiness of our customers while supporting retail customers where appropriate to minimize business disruption. Finally, we actively engage with the regulators by closely tracking the policy developments and engaging with relevant authorities in preserving operational and commercial flexibility so that we can adapt quickly as these things change. To close on this matter, let me reinforce one point. Our core strategy is unchanged. We will continue to maximize total shareholder returns through disciplined execution, starting with dependable, reliable dividends while making selective value-accretive investments.
When we generate excess cash beyond what's needed to operate safely and maintain a strong balance sheet, we'll consider additional returns to our shareholders. Now let me turn to a few key highlights from the first quarter. Despite the impact from our turnaround activities during the first quarter, SPRC delivered a strong underlying performance. Adjusted net profit reached $51.1 million, representing a significant improvement year-on-year, supported by a stronger enterprise margin and disciplined execution across both the refinery and the commercial businesses. Our enterprise margin improved to $14.60 per barrel , driven mainly by a strong refinery margin of $12.80 per barrel, benefiting from robust middle distillate cracks amid tighter regional supplies. On the commercial side, margin was $1.80 per barrel, reflecting lower crude intake during the turnaround activities. This improvement was supported by a higher contribution from value accretive sales channels.
Operationally, our refinery utilization was lower at 63.2%, reflecting the planned turnaround activities. However, we maintained strong domestic placement of our products at 93.7%, demonstrating our continued focus on serving domestic demand and supporting Thailand's energy security. Importantly, our optimization efforts continue to deliver value. Our bottom line improvement project, our program contribution increased to $1.55 per barrel, while the integration value reached $39 million, supported by solid domestic sales and ongoing crude and process optimization initiatives. Overall, these results demonstrate SPRC's ability to navigate complex operating environments, to capture market opportunities, and continue strengthening our platform for sustainable performance well into the future. I'll now turn it over to Shashank for our performance analysis.
Thank you, Matthew. Good morning, everyone. Happy to be here again for Q1, and thanks for your interest in SPRC. Let me walk you through the key market dynamics and how SPRC is positioned. Starting with crude prices, Dubai averaged about $87 a barrel in Q1, increased significantly from $64 a barrel in fourth quarter. The sharp rise in crude prices was primarily because of the escalating geopolitical tensions in the Middle East, particularly following the strikes on Iran beginning towards the end of February. Prices briefly exceeded $100 a barrel and actually peaked close to $170 a barrel of crude in March as supply disruptions intensified and the Strait of Hormuz faced effective closure. This marked a clear shift from oversupply concerns that were earlier in the quarter to severe supply tightness to end the quarter, reflecting the elevated cash differentials and limited availability of crude within the region.
In contrast, the Murban OSP narrowed to less than $2 a barrel above Dubai as crude procurement during the quarter largely reflected the pre-conflict pricing. Looking ahead, Dubai prices are expected to remain elevated in the range of $95-$100 a barrel, supported by gradual supply normalization from SPR releases and increased exports of crude from the U.S. to Asia. While the crude premiums are likely to remain firm due to persistent geopolitical risk. Turning to specific refining performance, SPRC delivered a strong refinery margin of $12.80 a barrel, outperforming Singapore benchmark of $9 a barrel. This trend was primarily driven by robust middle distillate cracks and tight regional supply. The jet fuel crack specifically increased to $36.60 a barrel, supported by supply disruptions from reduced Middle East exports and limited Chinese export volumes to outweigh demand softness from flight productions that we've seen recently.
The diesel crack also rose to $35.70 a barrel, driven by constrained exports and lower refinery run rates due to crude supply concerns, although this was partially offset by the incremental supply from the U.S. and India. Looking forward, refining margins are expected to remain firm in the near term, supported by tight regional product supply and continued geopolitical risk. While middle distillate cracks may gradually soften, ongoing supply uncertainties are expected to sustain a risk premium in the market. Gasoline cracks are also likely to strengthen, driven by tighter supply during the regional holiday season and the start of the U.S. summer driving period, together with lower export volumes from China and South Korea. However, we remain mindful of potential downside risks, as Matthew mentioned.
Normalization of crude inflows, including the reopening of the Strait of Hormuz or recovery in refinery run rates, could ease product tightness and lead to a softening of margins. Okay, moving to the next slide. Turning specifically to commercial performance. In the first quarter of 2026, our total enterprise sales volume was just over 12 million barrels, lower than the previous quarter, mainly reflecting the impact of our planned T&I activities. However, despite the lower volume, the commercial team remained focused on optimizing product placement and prioritizing sales channels that deliver the best economic returns. A key highlight was the continued strength of our domestic market. Domestic sales increased to almost 94% of our total sales volume, demonstrating our commitment to prioritizing local supply and supporting Thailand's energy security, even during a period of operational constraints.
At the same time, our higher value channels, particularly retail and aviation, continue to show solid momentum and growth. These channels supported stronger margin contribution and helped improve our overall commercial margin to $1.80 a barrel, increasing both quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year. Overall, this performance reflects the strength of our commercial platform and our ability to optimize across channels, capture value from market opportunities, and continue delivering reliable supply to customers and specifically the Thailand domestic market. Let me now provide a little more detail on our progress in growing our high netback channels, particularly retail and aviation. In the retail business, the sales volume increased 6% quarter-over-quarter and 10% year-over-year, supported by stronger domestic fuel demand, particularly on diesel and higher global oil prices and tighter supply conditions.
Although our Caltex network remained at around 530 stations, our retail market share increased to nearly 6%, reflecting improved network productivity and stronger throughput per station. Beyond just volume growth, we continue to enhance the retail ecosystem by improving our customer experience, expanding partnerships with retail brands, strengthening promotional campaigns, and increasing active users on our loyalty program. These initiatives, together with selective station expansion, will support our ability in the medium term to scale the retail volume more effectively, strengthen our retail footprint, and improve profitability over time. For aviation, sales continued to improve 2% quarter-over-quarter and 21% year-over-year, supported by sustained travel demand during the holiday period and stronger jet fuel consumption in Thailand.
In addition, the completion of our light crude project during the turnaround has enhanced our capability to maximize jet production up almost 14% from this year onwards, positioning us to better capture long-term growth in the jet demand. Overall, our focus on retail and aviation reflects a clear strategy to grow in higher value channels, improve our netback margins, and build a more resilient commercial portfolio. This will be an important contributor to sustainable growth and stronger profitability going forward. With that, let me pass it to Khun Nutsara to cover the financial performance for the first quarter.
Thank you, Khun Shashank. On the financial performance of SPRC for the first quarter of this year, we start with the enterprise margin, which Khun Matthew and Khun Shashank have provided the highlight earlier. The enterprise margin, which excluding the stocking loss in first quarter, is still strong at $14.6 per barrel, which increased from previous quarter and also increased from the same quarter of last year. This is driven by improving in the refinery margins at $12.80 a barrel and supported by strong middle distillate crack spread on jet and diesel in March as a result of the tension in the Middle East. On the commercial side, marketing margin is also strong at $1.8 per barrel of crude intake.
Taking the impact of low crude intake this quarter, due to one month refinery shutdown in February, the normalized commercial margin still strong and provide a strong performance to the company. On the accounting margin, SPRC report high accounting margin in this quarter. However, the high accounting margin was largely from an inventory gain of $22 per barrel in this quarter due to a sharp rise in the oil price. Turning to cost performance, enterprise OPEX, which is a combination of our refinery and marketing business, is $3.9 per barrel. This is due to the shutdown of one month in February. So if we normalize the crude intake, the operating expense per dollar, the operating expense is $2.7 per barrel, which lower than previous quarter and also lower than the same quarter of last year.
This is due to lower activity in beginning of the year and also continued ongoing cost efficiency program that we keep trying to have the cost control of the company expense. SPRC consolidated EBITDA in first quarter is $312 million, increased significantly from last quarter and same quarter of last year. The higher EBITDA is mainly due to a significant stock gain of $221 million from the increase in oil price. While net profit for the quarter is $228 million. However, excluding the impact from the stock gain, the adjusted earning in this quarter is $51 million, lower than previous quarter as a result of the one-month refinery shutdown, but still improving year-on-year from the stronger margin and also from the cost efficiency program, despite we having the expense relating to the shutdown.
Turning to our financial position for this quarter, starting with the segment of financial position. Overall, SPRC continued to maintain a healthy balance sheet. Total assets as of March increased to $2.4 billion compared to last year. The increase was mainly contributed by higher account receivable and inventory as a result of the sharp rise in crude and product price, and also the subsidy receivable from the government. On the liability side, total liability also increased. The increase is mainly from the increased expense payable, which is relating to the crude purchase price. The increase is also from our short-term borrowing. This is to support the increase in working capital and the subsidy receivable. As a result of net profit of $228, total shareholder equity increased to $1.4 billion at the end of first quarter.
Looking at our net interest bearing debt- to- equity ratio, which remained at a manageable level of just 0.16, reflecting a disciplined balance sheet management, despite spending relating to the T&I and also high working capital requirement in this quarter. Lastly, on shareholder return, we still committed to deliver a reliable dividend and additional returns to shareholder, which remain our top financial priority. This is the summary of financial performance, and turn over to Khun Nongnapa for the looking ahead.
Thank you, Nutsara . For the future opportunities while we still manage the current challenges to provide reliable energy supply for Thailand security. We are progressing on track to maintain operational resilience and continue our focus on unlocking future opportunities through the two strategic pillars for the longer term and deliver the highest total shareholder return. The first one is the value chain optimization, so from refining to marketing and to customer. The end-to-end operational excellence, we are strengthening execution from crude sourcings to product placement with a strong emphasis on safety, reliability, operation, and also deliver committed product to consumer. A key priority is the financial disciplines. Reserving cash, prioritize high return investment and ensure every decision support and delivers superior return. While we continue enhancing cost efficiency and operational performance through the whole value chain optimization, we also sustain the bottom line improvement program, improve the margin.
The initiative from the feed stock selection, freight logistic optimization, manage the inventory at the optimum level and also minimize the demurrage. Process the bottleneck, catalyst optimization and also maximize the product supply to consumer. This T&I in the last month was successfully completed, result to strengthen production reliability, improve the operational efficiency and also support the long-term return. In parallel, we continue exploring the integration opportunities among the refinery and petrochemical partners. This capture broader value chain benefits. Also, we see the upside in term of the circular economy. We aim to build the organization capability and also the infrastructure capture in term of the evolving demand trend over time. The right-hand side is the profitable growth from the marketing business as a strategic growth. This one we execute and also maintain the Spot 2, Spot 3 strategy.
We optimize sales channel at the highest net debt margin, as you see in the performance report out that we informed earlier. To be better for the customer experience, as Khun Shashank mentioned, we are working to deliver the stronger retail ecosystem through platform enhancement, apply automation and digitalization. This is to accelerate domestic growth in the longer term. At the same time, we also reduce the cost to serve, streamline the logistic and improve the supply chain efficiency. Lastly, we also expand the product placement, secure the new term export opportunity across the ASEAN and diversify the revenue stream beyond the domestic market. These are two pillars position SPRC to sustain growth, stronger resilient, and also create the value creation in term of this challenging energy landscape. Okay, may I turn back to the Q&A. Thank you management for the presentation.
Now we are ready to take your questions. If you have any questions at this time, please click on the right-hand button or send the question through the chat channel. Okay, we have the first one come in. Kunapat, please go ahead.
Hi, good morning. Thank you for the presentation. I'd like to ask on the GRM, because I think there are many swing factors involving the GRM, because I think I look at the first quarter GRM at about 12.8, and if you look at the crack spread in second quarter, it's been quite a big jump from first quarter. But again, I have no information on the crude premium, freight cost and also insurance cost, because I know that these three factors will likely affect the GRM in second quarter. So I like to get a sense of how GRM quarter to date, you don't need to give us an exact number. I just want to get the sense how it is compared to the first quarter because these swing factors involved.
Okay, I'll take first run at this and then maybe Shashank or Nutsara can add on. The financial GRM that you see us report is a pretty straightforward calculation number based on the actual sort of what we paid for the crude oils that we ran during that month versus relative to the product prices that we sold it. When you look at that, the sort of current GRM is quite strong. Given that our crude procurement cycle takes somewhere between close to 60 days before the conflict to now up to around 90 days, as we've had to adjust sort of where we are purchasing crude from.
What you would see when this comes to normalization is that by the time you factor in the crude premiums and the additional freight, insurance and all the costs and things that are going on with that, by the time you factor all that in, the GRMs that we're seeing are still above mid-cycle, but they're not tremendously above mid-cycle. In other words, if I tell you today, if I look at the product cracks that we have today, and I overlay those with the actual price of landed crude that we expect to be receiving in June, the margins, the GRMs would be in the $10 per barrel range. Probably, I would say that's what we see until there's a resolution of the conflict. We see things normalizing at that level.
Once there is a resolution to the conflict and the crude supply chain and everything returns to something that looks more normal, there'll be a period where the GRMs will be quite depressed because we would have procured crude with really high crude premiums, really high freight, but the product cracks will have decreased. We'll have to get through maybe a month or maybe as much as two months of some really low sort of financial GRMs as we work through that inventory of crude oil that we bought. What I would say, our expectation is that when you look at the entire cycle, we expect that we'll be above mid-cycle on GRM, but not in a way that's tremendous. We're not expecting to be like double, triple the mid-cycle sort of margins when you look at the entire cycle.
I don't know if Shashank or Nutsara you have any additional comments to add to that.
Nothing additional, Matthew. I think you covered it quite well.
Just to clarify on this, basically the $10 GRM that you mentioned is already net from a crude premium insurance cost and also freight cost?
Yes. That is again, just a round number, but probably somewhere in that area.
Yes. My second question is on the government intervention, because so far, how much has that been diluted our earnings, assuming that the price cut is going to stay until the May 19th?
Generically, I will give you a range. When we have looked at what has been announced thus far, we think that the impact on our revenue is somewhere between $40 million and $50 million dollars for the reductions in the diesel price that have been announced to date.
$40 million, $50 million . So you said on the revenue or on the profit?
On the margin.
On the margin. Okay. Maybe last question. What is your take on the government intervention on this? Does it affect the confidence that you are operating business here? Have you been contacted by government on how well have they explained the logic of this intervention?
The government has a very difficult job to do and a very difficult calculus to try to figure out in terms of how do they balance shareholder interests, how do they balance the interests of the industry, long-term sustainability of our industry versus the short-term needs of the Thai people and short-term impacts to the country's GDP, and the country's financial performance relative to higher oil prices, higher energy prices. When we think about it, we have our view. We certainly advocate for free market principles. We think, from our viewpoint, that those would be the best way to address this.
I think what we've heard from our shareholders, I won't quote our shareholders, but I would say if you, a major shareholder, if you wanted to go and sort of listen to their most recent quarterly analyst report, somewhere around minute 40, they address government intervention and how they feel about the government interventions. I think it's a balanced view. Our view is also balanced. But at the end of the day, the regulators have to do what they have to do to keep the Thai economy strong. From an SPRC's perspective, we are not benefited at all by having a weak Thailand. Our customers, our stakeholders are all here. We will support what we need to support to try to help have a very strong economy in Thailand.
Again, we don't fully agree with all the steps that the government has made, but we are compliant with everything that they've asked us to do, and we'll continue to provide advice and our view on how to approach things when they ask, and try to make sure that they have relevant data to make good decisions with.
Okay. Maybe just a follow-up. How much crude have you already secured so far?
We have enough crude to run at our planned rates to sort of refine unit constraints through the month of June fully. We're in our normal crude buy. Actually, we're getting close to our crude buy cycle for July. So we've been procuring on schedule, and we've been able to continue to buy crude on schedule to be able to run our refinery to the optimal refinery constraints.
Do you have any-
I don't see that changing through the cycle. I suspect that we will be able to get the crude that we need to operate at optimal rates.
Do you have a problem with excess diesel at the moment that you need to find some storage?
For certainty, the export restrictions on diesel are a significant constraint for us now.
Okay. One last question from me is in terms of the financial, because this year seems to be a remarkable year for SPRC. When I look at the number in Q1, the core profit is TBH 1.7 billion, TBH 1.8 billion. If we take off all the stock gain, this would be equivalent to about THB 0.4 per share, core EPS. We are looking in second quarter, although we have a government intervention, seems like the number that you mentioned, GRM, we are going to have quite a good quarter in second quarter too. Are we, in terms of the And also balance sheet, we are getting strong now. We almost turn to be a net cash now. Would we consider raising the payout? I mean, dividend, because we do not have any, looking down the road, we do not have any financial burden.
Even we just finished what we call the major maintenance. Yeah, major turnaround. Would we consider raising the payout ratio? Yes.
Our financial priorities will be unchanged. The board, I think we have talked about before, the board will consider what it looks like our cash requirements are, what our requirements for reserved earnings are through the cycle. Certainly we are kind of finishing. We just finished up a cycle because, as you mentioned, the turnaround, the major turnaround just completed. We will look through the full period of the next cycle, and we will determine if our base dividend remains adequate, is where we expect it to be. There is a chance that the board could look through that whole cycle and determine that we may want to increase the base dividend some. But again, it will not be indexed fully on the sort of strong performance from the first half of this year.
It will have to take into account how we see this current geopolitical cycle playing out, as well as kind of how we see the entire cycle play out. Because if we make a change to our base dividend, we want it to be a change that the shareholders can depend on. Something that we would be saying that we will be able to do consistently going forward. We will have those conversations. We have definitely executed on some improvement items during the turnaround that were in our plan. We do think that our earnings potential should be stronger going forward than it has been in the past, even at our normal margins. We will think about all of that. The board will think about all of those things as we determine what our base dividend will be for year 2026 and going forward through the rest of the cycle.
Okay. Thank you, Matthew. Thank you.
Thank you for your questions.
Next, is Khun Amornrat. Amornrat, sorry. Amornrat, sorry.
Thank you. First question. Can we have the change in crude mix after your light link program that have been completed since the last turnaround? We would like to know how much is the Middle East mix in the overall procurement and whether do you plan to increase the West African or the U.S. crude intake going forward. Second question is on the utilization for the CDU in March after the turnaround. From that level, do you think you can maximize it further going forward?
The last question is on dividend, because this year, I understand that the profits would be more of the front loaded. We might have a weaker second half. For the interim dividend, do you think that you are prepared to pay on, let's say, some payout ratio applied to the first half profit, or do you want to prepare for the weaker outcome in the second half and decide to pay more towards the final dividend? Thank you.
Thank you very much. May we start with the crude mix questions and the utilizations.
Okay. Shashank, you take it.
Shashank, please.
Sure. Yeah, it's a great question. Thanks for the question on the crude. We typically have run north of 80% of our crude slate from the Middle East pre-conflict. Given the geopolitical uncertainty and the lack of supply from the Middle East with the Strait of Hormuz, we have adjusted and diversified our crude mix to be from literally all over the world. As Matthew mentioned, we're almost completed on our July purchasing program. In the second quarter, I could say that our Middle East crude percentage has dropped from north of 80% to 60%, 40%, and down to 25% by end of June. Our crude slate is quite diversified. It's a mix of Middle East crude, roughly 25% by the end of June, some West African crude, U.S. crude, and then other crudes, including domestic Thailand crudes.
It's quite a diversified slate that we're going to run by the end of second quarter. Moving forward, it does depend a bit on the Strait of Hormuz and what happens in the Middle East. If things continue as they are right now, we would continue to diversify and to buy the most economic crude we can in a very dynamic environment. Specific to the turnaround, the light crude project, I think it's fair to say we haven't fully been able to explore all the benefits of the investment we made in the turnaround, given the geopolitical uncertainty and the lack of some crudes from the Middle East. We haven't really fully looked at what does it look like if it was a normal situation.
Within the constraints, we actually are buying and able to buy more light crude from different parts of the world because of the Middle East conflict. I think in the second quarter results, we'll be able to share a little more about how the second quarter crude slate was different, and also maybe capitalizing on our light crude project investment.
Okay. The third question is about the dividend.
The third one is about the dividends.
I will repeat again. The board, at our next meeting, we will discuss how we think the entire cycle looks. Not just this current cycle with the geopolitical uncertainty, but our entire sort of run cycle, which will go up and through our next turnaround. I will look at what our uses of cash are expected to be. We will look at our forecasted, what we think the margins will be across that time period, and then we will determine if we want to make a change to what we consider to be our base dividend. If you see an uptick in the second quarter, I mean, in our interim dividend, for 2026, it will likely be because we have determined that we would be raising the base dividend. I would not index it. I would not index that first half 2026 earnings.
I would say, I would think that that interim dividend payout will be based on how we think our earnings potential has changed and what we expect to be sustainable through the year. Then once we get through the full year 2026, we will obviously determine what the full year dividend payment will be, and that will be in line with both our financial priorities and our dividend policy.
Thank you. Next, is Alyssa . Please go ahead.
Oh, sorry. Can you hear me? Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Ling.
Yeah. Alyssa, please.
Alyssa first. Sorry.
Oh, sorry. Sorry. If you still have the question, please go ahead. Sorry.
That's okay. Hi. Thanks for taking my question, and congrats on the great quarter. Given that we are kind of in an unprecedented situation right now, could I just ask on the GRM outlook, is there a reason why we think that the GRMs will be quite depressed? Because everyone is procuring crude at a relatively high premium right now. Is there a reason why you think that product cracks would decrease going forward, given that, in my mind, refining demand supply still looks very tight given the outages in Middle East? That's my first question.
Okay. Thanks for the question. Again, it's hard for us to. I don't want to speculate on timing, but the main thing is just that everybody's procuring crude with these very high fixed premiums today. You're correct. One would suspect that product cracks will remain strong as long as the availability of crude is tight and the supply chain disruptions we see on the crude side remain. But at some point, those things unwind. When those things unwind, we know that our crude procurement window has become quite long. To get the crude that we need, we have sort of a 90-day window at this point when we're buying crude out in the future. It depends on once the situation unwinds, do the crack spreads go immediately? Do they take 30 or 45 days for the crack spreads to come back in?
Do they take the full 90 days of that crude procurement window? In the past, when we've gone through cycles like this, we've seen the crack spreads really contract almost real time when the disruptions end. When we say we expect the crack spreads, the GRMs to be narrower, that's kind of an averaging. We expect strong crack spreads and decent GRMs up until a point in time, and then we expect to see a time period of pressure where we've gotten back to sort of a normalized supply chain, but we still have inventory of expensive crude to deal with. The same way that we saw the crack spreads respond on the positive side when the disruption began. Even though us and everybody else in this industry have crude oil on hand to run that we have procured at low cost, crack spreads reacted immediately.
As soon as the market got disrupted, the crack spreads widened out immediately. You kind of expect to see that same thing on the back end of the cycle, and that is what leads to the period of weak GRM.
Yeah. If I may just add onto that, Matthew, just a couple of things. Also, if you look at supply-demand balances, I mean, it is quite hard to predict, obviously, what the future may hold in the short term. But there is a potential headwind of softer demand, right? So we are seeing a little bit of that in the jet fuel market, for example, where a lot of airlines are shifting their schedules and maybe canceling some flights and consolidating flight patterns. We are also seeing that in the transportation sector, that is primarily diesel in Thailand. We are seeing some softening of the demand. And maybe even across Southeast Asia as a whole, seeing a bit more of that. If things were to change, like work from home mandates and things, that could further impact demand. We are also seeing some disruptions in the petchem sector.
The petchem sector is a buyer of ours for certain products from the refinery. As they are impacted and they are sort of cutting runs, it may impact some of the knock-on products that we make in the refinery. So there is some risk and some headwinds on the product side, which may influence the GRM kind of negatively. So we are watching that very closely.
Okay. Got it. Thanks a lot, Shashank and Matthew. Maybe for my second question, I am sorry to ask again on the dividend. I recall previously, since IPO, it was at least 50% payout ratio. But then, starting, I think, sometime last year, we mentioned that it would be kind of like a steady base dividend. Just wondering what that base dividend would be. Would it be of 2024 full year dividend number, or would the base dividend be of 2025 DPS?
I think if you want an indication. We don't make a formal commitment to a number. But if you want an indication of how the board thinks about the base, I think if you go and look at the interim dividend from 2025, that will give you a good indication of how we think about the base dividend. We think about our IPO value, and we think about a certain percent return on the IPO value, and we kind of use that as a guide for us for determining our base dividend. And like I said, we do that through the cycle. As we were. We've had a couple of really nice years, and we wanted to make sure that we got through the uncertainty that naturally comes with having a big turnaround event scheduled.
We've gotten through that now, and I think now what we will do is we will look again, sort of out through the next four or five-year cycle. And we'll look at what we think our earnings potential are, what our uses of cash will be, and then we will make an adjustment if the board deems an adjustment is needed.
Okay, got it. And when you refer to base dividend for the first half of 2025, are you referring to the absolute dividend instead of the payout ratio? And then also, as a follow-up question, does the dividend payout ratio exclude the inventory gains since that is a non-cash item? Yeah, thank you.
Excludes the,
Inventory gains.
Inventory gain. Yeah. It excludes that, yes. What was the first part of your question was does it include the stock gain, stock loss and the other part of the question was?
Oh, yeah. It was on the base dividend. Should we look at it as the absolute amount in first half 2025, or should we be looking at the payout ratio?
Absolute amount.
Okay, got it. Thank you very much. Thanks, Matthew.
Okay. Thank you, Alyssa. Next, Mr. Panuwat, please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for your presentation. I have two questions. First is, if you could please elaborate about the major driver of the strong commercial margin in this quarter, given that, as I am seeing from the straight, that the marketing margin has been quite low for them. So just wonder how you excel at this. The second question is about the crude supply that, if I heard correctly, you still expect the Middle East crude for 40%-60% of your total crude mix. So just wonder if you could manage to get those crude in this quarter. Thank you.
Yeah, thank you. Khun Shashank, please take this question. Thank you.
Yeah. Thanks for the question. We do believe our commercial business remains fairly stable and strong quarter-over-quarter. I think you're referencing the higher margin of $1.82 a barrel. I'll just point out that one slight thing, a nuance there is the denominator in that per barrel is our per barrel of crude intake. In the first quarter, actually, with the T&I in February, we had a lower crude intake. The margin has nominally gone up, on a per barrel basis. The underlying business is probably somewhat consistent with the fourth quarter in a $1.15-$1.20 a barrel range if you had a full quarter's worth of crude intake and no T&I. I would expect to see that normalize going forward in Q2. That's partially what's supporting that higher margin Q1.
Having said that, our strategy has not changed. We continue to high grade our sales, prioritizing domestic energy consumption, particularly in retail and in aviation channels. As we do that and then seek to high grade the rest of our production outside of that, we do expect to see strengthening in the commercial margin. Perhaps not that stark difference between fourth quarter and first quarter that you're seeing. That's one of the reasons. On the crude side, our Middle East crude, it's actually 60%-40%, as you mentioned, it kind of changes month-over-month. June is as low as 25% Middle East crude, actually. Part of that is, we tend to buy a fair amount, historically, crude oil from Abu Dhabi, Murban specifically. A lot of Murban loads from the Port of Fujairah, which is outside of the Strait of Hormuz.
It actually is not as impacted with the crudes that are stuck within the strait or load within the Strait of Hormuz. That is one reason we're able to continue securing some Middle East crude, although it comes with higher risk and a higher risk premium with the conflict kind of broadening into the Middle East. We continue looking at the crude slates we can buy, including Murban, including other Middle East. In general, we're able to source Murban from Abu Dhabi, Saudi crudes, and other crudes globally. Every single month, we look at the optimal slate that we can run to maximize our refining margin in GRM.
I'll just add a bit to that. As we go forward, right now, we have a little bit of term purchase crude that comes from the Middle East. We'll look to add to that occasionally when the pricing is good. We're not reliant on it. When we look at how we're procuring crude now, basically, we've gotten ourselves to a point where we say, "Look, if we can get no crude out of the Middle East, we still want to be able to run up to constraints, up to refined constraints." That's how we're positioning ourselves, because even though, as Shashank pointed out, the Port of Fujairah, where we get most of the remainder of our Middle Eastern crude is outside of the Strait of Hormuz , there are still elevated risks at that port.
we have taken those into account, and we have made sure that, even if we were unable to get crude off there, we would still be able to maintain our operation and meet all of our contracted customer demands.
Thank you. Next, Khun Anatri, please go ahead.
Hi, can you hear me?
Yes.
Hi. Thank you for taking my question, and congratulations on the strong result. Sorry if I would like to kind of circle back to the question regarding the dividend again. On the dividend decision, you mentioned that would be around the discussion with the strategic shareholders. Could you perhaps highlight a bit more on what sorts of topics or area that would be discussed when you refer to how you will look through the cycle? Also what level would be considered sustainable level of absolute base dividend? What sort of support or expectation that the strategic shareholder is looking for from SPRC?
And kind of in conjunction to that question as well, if you look at the operating cash flows in the first quarter, which we kind of see the drags that coming from the working capitals, especially from the Oil Fuel Fund receivable to a certain extent. So would the priority still be maximize dividends and hence indicates the willingness to tap into short-term drawdown to support the current situation, or would it be otherwise? How should we think about it? Thank you.
Okay. So, I think those two are a little bit intertwined, so I'll do the best I can here. As far as looking at the dividend, the key thing that we will sort of be reviewing is what do we think our earnings potential is for the business as a whole over that next cycle. And so what we'll take into account is, we've had growth on our retail sales channel, which brings more margin to the business. And we want to sustain that growth, so we'll continue growing that business, which adds to our earnings potential. We just executed a few projects, which we've talked to you about. The main one being the light crude project during the T&I, and that at the same sort of product crack level, that improves our realized GRM. And so we'll also think about that.
So we'll think about the things that we have done and that we plan to do to augment our earnings capability. We'll look at a sort of multiple scenarios where we think about how the crack spreads may play out over that time period. And we'll think about some scenarios, multiple scenarios, of just kind of what the market environment could be. And then the final thing is we'll think about how we plan on utilizing cash to support business growth. And so when we think about sort of those three areas in conjunction, we'll come up with a forecast of how we expect our retained earnings to perform and how we expect our cash flow position, our net cash position to perform. And, once we have that picture, we'll determine what we think the base dividend should be.
So now, going back into, well, how do we take into account some of the cash flow impacts from the government interventions that we're seeing now? How do we take those into account? Some of those will just affect the starting point. Okay, so our retained earnings starting point will be impacted by the sort of ex refinery gate price reduction that the government has imposed because it impacts our earnings potential for however long they continue to do that. So that kind of impacts the starting point of where our retained earnings are. So that will go into the calculation sort of in that manner.
As far as, like, the Oil Fuel Fund impact goes and the rate of repayment of the Oil Fuel Fund and how that affects our net cash position, we won't think about that as much, and we're able to take that position because of our strong balance sheet. We've been very prudent with our cash, as you guys know. That is something that we kind of pride ourself in, that we keep a strong balance sheet. Because of that, we can sort of weather this issue with the cash impact of the Oil Fuel Fund receivables that we'll have on hand. I don't expect for that to play a very large part in our determining what our base dividends will be going forward.
Thank you. Thank you so much for that. Just a quick follow-up to that. Regardless of the market scenarios that you are currently looking at, when you mention on the retail side as well as the light crude project, the GRM outlook post the light crude project, those two are kind of pointing out towards a more structurally higher level of GRM that we can expect. Would that be a fair assumption, or you meant more of these two areas are still needed more investments going forward?
No, I was talking about the investments that we've already made. Yes. Again, I think as with any business we're continually trying to look for ways to grow our earnings potential at sort of a normalized or a fixed market environment. We think we've done that with the light crude project. That is the reason that we're investing in the retail side of the business, is to profitably and at high margin grow our earnings potential. I think that when we do these evaluations, if we're executing well, we should look at that and think, okay, that we've increased our earnings potential over time, and we should be able to therefore see dividend growth over time. This will be our sort of next opportunity to look at that in the cycle.
I think if we feel good about our execution, I would be surprised if we didn't see some sort of growth. We just don't know what that would be at this point.
Got it. Thank you so much. Any sort of IRR target for these investments that you have in mind?
We do not really communicate on a hurdle. I think the light crude project, it looks like the performance that we are expecting from it is very strong. I will just say well north of 20% returns is kind of what our expectations are. When we invest in the retail growth, historically, what we have done so far has performed well in the upper teens, lower 20s sort of percents on returns when we do the look-backs. As long as they continue to perform in that range, we will continue investing in that part of the business at the clip that we can sustain.
Got it. That is great, Herbert. Thank you so much.
Okay, next, Kun Pianan, please go ahead.
Thank you. I have two questions, please allow me to ask one by one. The first question is a follow-up question regarding the net working capital that you subsidize the Oil Fuel Fund. Do you have estimated dollar amount for this year that you estimated to subsidize them? Just a color to that, if you could provide, typically, how long is the delay in terms of payment? For example, what is the worst delay you have seen from them? Given that this cycle, the fund is in a really bad position, should we expect a longer delay?
These are really good questions. I can answer the first couple with a fair amount of certainty, Nutsara can tell me if I'm wrong. Roughly, our receivable from the Oil Fuel Fund currently stands around $120 million-ish. The rate of growth in that number has slowed dramatically. We've got several scenarios that we look at just to make sure that we are being prudent about how we manage cash going forward. We've said maybe that hits a ceiling as high as $200 or something in that range, but honestly, that will just depend on how the government wants to utilize the Oil Fuel Fund. We'll be positioned to manage. How long does it take for them to pay us back? I encourage you to call your local government officials or your national government.
Call whoever you want to. You can advocate on our behalf. We really don't know. Last time it was almost two years. It was actually over two years. Correct. Over two years, for us to get any reasonable amount of repayment of the fund. It took. We were just barely getting back to even from 2022 when this sort of event started. To get fully all that money back was almost a four-year period. So, it takes a long time. It has taken a long time in the past. Let me say, it's taken a long time in the past. It would be a nice reprieve if this particular government decided to pay back more quickly than that. That's certainly what we'll be advocating for when we talk to them, is to release our shareholder funds sooner. That's not necessarily in our control.
Understood. The last question would be on export restriction. Is there any issues on the storage yet? How has that impact your utilize or how would that impact your utilization in the upcoming months? If you could share some color on how do you manage the finished product inventory while the export restriction is still in place. Thank you so much.
Yeah. Our priorities in this space are really on trying to make sure that Thailand has access to the products that it needs to keep its economy running. To the extent that we can, we will continue to operate at full utilization and look for ways to store the product. Because as long as the restriction is in place, then we can only make the assumption that the government still doesn't feel comfortable with the amount of product that's on hand in the country. Having said that, we have exceeded our internal capacity to store some of the products, primarily diesel. But gasoline and jet fuel also are quickly sort of approaching the maximum level of storage that we have internally. In the meantime, we've taken on some third-party storage, external to our facilities to store barrels, and that comes at a cost.
Normally, at this inventory level, we would be looking for customers outside of Thailand, and we would be exporting barrels around the region. So it does come at a cost to SPRC to sort of have to manage at these higher inventory levels, not only carrying costs for the product, but also just physically having to pay somebody else to borrow tanks to store material. Now, we'll do that until we run out of tanks that we can find, which is happening, I think, quite quickly. Once we've run out of areas where we can reasonably store the product, we will have to reduce our throughput rates. We're hopeful that it doesn't come to that.
We are continuing to sort of advocate the government to have some sort of exemption process so that once we can demonstrate that there's adequate inventory in the country that cargo by cargo basis or something, exports can be approved. But just as it is normally, when all six refineries are operating, Thailand is long product. This is not a new thing. It's not like Thailand's typically needing to import gasoline, jet fuel, and diesel. Thailand is typically long gasoline, jet fuel, and diesel. I don't suspect that our position is much different from that of our competitors. We have too much product in the country, and eventually we will have to have a way to have an outlet for that product, or you'll see all of the refineries sort of having to curtail rates and reduce crude procurement and things of that nature.
We're hopeful that our advocacy will pay off at some point in the near future. Some process for having exemptions for allowing some barrels to leave the country will be made. Thanks for the question.
Okay. Next, Kunyo Pahan, please go ahead.
Hi. I have a quick few questions. The first one is regarding the yield. Given that you will change the crude mix quite drastically, could we expect any change in product yield? That is my first question.
I think previously we have highlighted that there are some slight changes in the yield running lighter crude. We primarily expect to see more jet fuel production, a little bit more gasoline production. Those are sort of the products that we expect to see yield increases in as a result of the light crude project. When it comes to the fact that we have adjusted where the sources of crude are, what I would say is generally, we are buying crude and blending it such that it looks like the base crude that we would have bought anyway. Even though normally we would be buying much more Middle Eastern crude, primarily much more Murban. The crude oils that we have pivoted to, by the time we get them all in tank, we blend them all together.
They look a bit like Murban, because that is sort of what our equipment is designed to run most efficiently. From a yield standpoint, where we are sourcing the crude from does not really impact the yields. It is really kind of how we look at optimizing the refinery.
Thank you. My next question is, sorry, is about dividend again. I just want to make it clear that can we just conclude that right now you're actually looking whether to maintain or raise dividend, given that after the shutdown, like in the first quarter, you have some planned upgrade. So that will raise your earning, and that is despite that your refinery market outlook doesn't change.
I think you said that correctly. If these maintain, we will discuss where we think the base dividend is going forward, and there's some likelihood that we might raise it.
Okay. Thank you. Is your view on refinery market changing after the war and maybe after the war could end up with Iran sanction lifted? Does that mean that there could be some lower supply from China because the teapot cannot use cheap crude anymore?
That's a good question. I would say, I don't think at the board level, we haven't discussed, and we're receiving information now from analysts daily and weekly about how we think about the refining margin environment over the next several years. There's been a lot of things happening. Depending on how this conflict ends, there could be more refined products available out of the Middle East. But in the next two years, we expect that refined product demand out of the Middle East has been impacted because some of it has been damaged in the course of the conflict. We'll continue to keep an eye out on these things. We'll talk to the folks who have a lot of insights into how the market supply and demand factors are being impacted by the conflict and where they go afterward.
I think at this point, a consensus view is that at least for the next couple of years, we would expect to be in total, on average, slightly above mid-cycle. That is kind of the view that we will take forward. We will be looking for advice and gathering data of our own to try to firm up our viewpoint there.
Thank you. My last question is regarding the outlook in the second quarter. I am sorry if you have already mentioned. I just want to ask how you see the refinery margin in the second quarter at the moment, with all the crude premium and the subsidy from the government. Is it higher than the first quarter?
Yeah. We are 1.5 months behind this. It is certainly higher than the average first quarter margin to date. We will just see how the rest plays out. Assuming that what we hear from most of the analysts is direct, that most folks are saying that even if conflict ends tomorrow, it will take a few months for the supply situation to sort of re-normalize. If that is correct, then we would expect to see a higher GRM second quarter than we saw first quarter.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Next, Alyssa , please go ahead.
Hi. Sorry, if I could just squeeze in one last question. Just wanted to pick your brain on why is China starting to export crude and refined products, and whether is this an indication that they have enough supply, or is it that internally demand is weak? Also, are you seeing any impact from the refinery exports out of China impacting Southeast Asia margins currently? Thank you.
I don't have a whole lot of insight into this one. I don't know if Shashank. I don't think I have a whole lot I'd like to share. I will say that despite the fact that the premiums for the products, particularly diesel and jet fuel, went through a period of being very high, when I talked to some of my colleagues on the supply and trading side of the business, they mentioned that it's really hard to find customers. They think that that is because of some of the incremental exports that China has had. I think when we look at the total amount of export that China has announced, it's not materially higher than what they had been exporting historically.
I think there is a lot of conflicted views in the marketplace about the impact that those exports are having and the magnitude relative to their normal exports now.
Okay, perfect. Got it. Thanks very much, Matthew.
Thank you, Alyssa . We are running out of time, so we may have the last question from Kunapat, please.
Okay. I will try to make it quick and short. Okay, Matthew, just to ask you about the meeting that you have with the government, because the deadline for the price cut is next week. Have you been contacted by the government? Have they been asking us what is our view on this?
Essentially, the government put into, they instituted a program where we have to provide them data weekly. All the refineries have to provide weekly data on our cost data, our crude procurement data. Then they take that information, and they have their own views on current product market. Then they determine what they feel the actual refined market GRM is on a crude replenishment basis. Then they make their determination after that.
Normally when they reach out to you, do they call you or they ask you to come and meet them? Or how does it take place?
The meetings with the senior leadership team have essentially stopped. We have a group of folks in the company who are in constant contact with the folks in the Department of Energy Business, and that is who has been tasked with pulling in all of the information and data. Those groups are talking on an almost daily basis at this point, but the data submissions are due weekly. There has not been a call for all of the industry CEOs or executives to get together in probably three weeks now. At this point, they have established a program, and they are just in execution mode. Then they report back out to us when they expect to make a change in the amount of pricing impacts that they are going to impose. That group was supposed to meet and report out on what happens after next week's numbers.
They were supposed to do that last week. That meeting got postponed. I would say I do not think we have heard anything at this point, and at this point, I do not think we are expecting for there to be any further refinery gate price interventions unless we see the raw price of the diesel go up higher than where it is at current level. That is just, I think, our expectation. But the government could decide something different.
Okay. Last thing is on the hedging, because I think we don't have any hedging position at the moment. Has that been our policy that we are not going to hedge anything?
Yeah. Our typical policy is we don't hedge. We take the margin of the day. Unless there's, I'd say, unless there's something that we find that introduces a risk that we simply aren't able to live with, that will sort of continue to be our position. Our policy is we take the margin of the day, and we ride with that. That's what you should expect from us. So very little to no use of financial instruments to try to manage the risk.
Okay. Thank you.
Okay. I think we have covered all questions today. I would like to take a moment to thank you, all of you, to attend our analyst meeting today. Thank you very much.
Very much.
Thank you.