Ferrovial N.V. (BME:FER)
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Earnings Call: Q4 2020

Feb 25, 2021

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to Ferrovial's conference call to discuss the financial results for the full year 2020. Just as a reminder, both the results report and presentation are available to you on our website. A couple of highlights on today's results. Financial information included in our report has been impacted by COVID-19 outbreak, mainly since the H2 of March. Given the uncertainty regarding the speed and extent of resumption in activity, it is not possible to predict how health crisis will affect Ferrovial's performance in 2021. Ferrovial will continue to closely monitor trading conditions and further evidence on wider economic impacts. I am joined here today by Mr. Rafael del Pino, Ferrovial's Chairman, Mr. Ignacio Madridejos, Ferrovial's CEO, and Mr. Ernesto López Mozo, our CFO. If you have any questions, you may ask them through the form included in the webcast.

During the Q&A session at the end of this call, we will be reading out your questions and who they are from. With this, I will hand over to Mr. del Pino. Rafael, the floor is yours.

Rafael del Pino
Chairman, Ferrovial

Thank you, Begoña. 2020 has been a difficult year with an unprecedented health crisis that has impacted all aspects of our lives. COVID-19 forced governments to impose mobility restrictions, travel bans, and quarantines across the globe, which in turn led the economies closing down. In this scenario, we have seen our operations impacted, especially in terms of traffic levels in toll roads and airports. Whenever restrictions were lifted, we saw a quick recovery in performance, especially in our toll roads in North America. We have taken measures to mitigate the COVID-19 impact through reduction in costs and CapEx plans at corporate and also at asset level. Also impacted by COVID-19, our contracting business showed resilient performance. Production levels in construction were strong, EBIT margin reached 2.3%, which is much better than what we were initially expecting for the year.

We were also able to generate a strong activity cash flow in the year, especially helped by improved working capital on the back of better collection terms of construction and services, the strong performance of Budimex, and the investments that were completed. Ferrovial faced COVID-19 with a record high level of liquidity and a strong cash position. Throughout the year, we have strived to preserve and improve even further the liquidity position of the company, issuing corporate bonds, drawing syndicated credit facilities issued through ECB Pandemic Emergency Purchase Program. We closed 2020 with EUR 8 billion of available liquidity ex infrastructure, and EUR 1.3 billion in available liquidity lines. Net cash position ex infra at close to EUR 2 billion, including discontinued activities. We are following our strategy, which is aligned with the Horizon 24 plan presented a year ago.

We are refocusing on the development and operation of sustainable infrastructure with high concessional value, rotation of mature assets, and increasing our exposure to managed lanes. Examples of these are the sale of Broadspectrum at AUD 485 million, included in the investment of services, to which Ferrovial is still committed. The sale of our Portuguese assets, Norte Litoral and Algarve, for EUR 171 million, cash inflow part in 2020 and part will happen in 2021. The acquisition of an additional 15% in the I-77 managed lane. The sale of 5% of Budimex for EUR 58 million, while still maintaining a controlling 50.1% stake. Sustainability is also a core part of our strategy and fully aligned with our business strategy.

Although we will explain it in further detail later on, some of the highlights are: we have ambitious decarbonization plans until 2030 and plan to reach carbon neutrality by 2050 through several milestones, including reaching 100% of renewable electricity sourcing by 2025. We are a pioneer in reaching third-party verification on the alignment of Ferrovial's value chain with United Nations' Sustainable Development Goals. Our effort in sustainability has gained us recognition by the main sustainability indices. We review in the following slide some of the main figures for the year. Revenues grew by 9.9%, like for like, to over EUR 6 billion on the back of higher construction revenues, partially offset by lower contribution from toll roads. Dividends from projects reached EUR 458 million, a bit lower than the EUR 729 million that happened in 2019. Our operating cash flow reached over EUR 800 million.

Divestments in the year, some of which I mentioned in the previous slide, totaled EUR 501 million in inflows, with some transactions still pending full closure in 2021. The net cash position, ex infrastructure assets, reached close to EUR 2 billion, where liquidity levels were at close to EUR 8 billion. In the current situation, short-term visibility remains limited, and it is difficult to provide any guidance on the results of the coming quarters. This being said, we remain confident when we look ahead. Our assets have long duration, are located in diversified growth areas, have flexibility to adapt to changes in behavior patterns that may come, and should play a key role in relieving capacity constraints in their regions. Our strategy is clear, focusing on developing efficient, innovative, and sustainable infrastructure that will create value for all our stakeholders.

We see clear opportunities ahead, not only building on our competitive advantage, but also with enough financial strength to reap attractive growth opportunities that we believe will come. Now, Ignacio, please, you have the floor.

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Thank you, Rafael. Hello, everyone. A pleasure to present the 2020 financial results. A difficult year because of the pandemic, but we delivered on the things that we can control. Let me start again, reminding you of our strategy. As you know, we develop and operate innovative, efficient, and sustainable infrastructure while creating value for our stakeholders. Our focus is on developing managed lanes in the U.S. We also develop and operate other high-quality toll roads and airports that contribute to our corporate portfolio. Our construction division is not only a cash contributor, but a key part of our strategy as it helps us to develop complex infra projects. We have a target of 30% revenues coming from internal projects. These construction capabilities will also help us to develop concessional projects on electrification, water, and mobility.

Our geographical focus is on the U.S., but we also consider core geographies, other markets like Canada, Poland, Spain, U.K., Chile, Colombia, or Peru. We have a strong pipeline of projects, mainly U.S. managed lanes, but also other toll roads and yellow field airports, and even in water or electrification. Some of these projects may not become a reality, and others we may lose to competitors because we will maintain our financial discipline to get double-digit returns. We will continue working to develop a portfolio with some of the best infra assets in the industry. At Ferrovial, we look at the main global challenges and turn them into business opportunities. No doubt, we can contribute to create a better world. We have a sustainability strategy, which is fully aligned with our business strategy and in which we have been working for years.

We are the first company to certify the impact of our strategy on the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals and define metrics to measure our progress. We have a plan to become carbon neutral by 2050, with intermediate milestones to source 100% from renewable energy by 2025 and 32% reduction of scope 1 and 2 emissions by 2030 compared to 2009. I'm sure we will deliver in a similar way we were ahead of our 2020 targets. In the case of water, we also have plans to reduce 20% of water consumption by 2030 compared to base year 2017, and to compensate annually 30 times our consumption with treatment and access. Our sustainability efforts through the years have helped us to be part of the Dow Jones Sustainability Index for 19 years and other highly recognized indexes.

COVID-19 has impacted our P&L, mainly with lower traffic, both in our toll roads and our airports. In the latter, also with exceptional cost and fixed assets impairments. In our construction unit, our projects were affected by stoppages, loss of productivity, and other effects of mobility restrictions, with an estimated negative impact to EBIT of EUR 49 million. In the case of our services unit, it was affected in a similar way with a EUR 102 negative impact at EBITDA level. It has also impacted our cash flow with lower dividends from infra assets, distribution of EUR 458 million, including services projects dividends, compared to EUR 729 million in 2019. Of course, we took measures to mitigate all these negative effects. We at C4 committed EUR 26 million corporate cost reduction for the year 2020, and on top of it, implemented additional EUR 23 million of OpEx savings related to COVID-19.

In all divisions, we implemented OpEx and CapEx savings, most relevant in airports, with GBP 303 million OpEx reduction and GBP 700 million CapEx reduction at Heathrow, and in a similar way, EUR 37 million and EUR 25 million at AGS. Our priorities during the pandemic have been to protect the health of our employees and clients, reinforce our financial position, and support the community. I want to thank all employees for their contribution during this pandemic. I am very proud of all of them. Moving to our toll road business. Traffic heavily impacted by COVID-19, but we experienced a solid recovery when mobility restrictions were lifted. Our EBITDA was EUR 251 million, 92% in the U.S., and we received EUR 340 million dividends from toll roads, EUR 109 million coming from LBJ that distributed its first dividend. During the year, we reclassified Autema to an intangible asset with traffic risk restating 2020 results.

We divested a part of Norte Litoral and Algarve, collecting EUR 100 million, and pending authority's approval for the 20% remaining value at EUR 70 million. Also we bought an additional 15% in I-77 to reach 65.1% with an investment of EUR 68 million. We are progressing well on our new toll roads, especially our new managed lanes. Our 6.7-mile extension of the NTE 35W is progressing according to schedule, being 20% complete and expected to be open in 2023. The I-66 is progressing well, is 57% complete and expected to open at the beginning of 2023. In the case of other toll roads, Ruta del Cacao is 68% complete, Bratislava 86%, and OSARs 97%, all of them partially open to traffic. As commented, the most relevant indicator of our performance last year was the restrictions to mobility made by authorities because of the pandemic.

Toronto was one of the most restrictive areas of the world, if not the most. The reopening after the April lockdown was in phases during long periods of time, and after an increase of cases after the summer, restrictions were back very fast. Today, Toronto is under a stay-at-home order with the schools operating remotely. It is worth highlighting the lower impact on traffic that this second lockdown has had when compared to the first one last April, when traffic was down by 80%. The most relevant indicator this year is going to be vaccination, and Canada started it slowly, but they have bought more vaccines per capita than many other countries. It will be in a better situation for the distribution than what we are seeing in other regions, such as in Europe.

The situation in Dallas-Fort Worth was different. The way to face the pandemic much less restrictive than what we saw in Toronto. After the April lockdown, they lifted some of the restrictions to recover the economy pretty fast, leading at a strong recovery on traffic levels too. They had an increase of cases at the beginning of the summer, around mid-June, and the last quarter of the year. They decided to maintain similar level of restrictions until the cases upswing after Thanksgiving, when restrictions again became tighter. The pace of recovery has been different in each managed lane, depending on their specific features, like NTE 35W, that has ended up the year only 10% below last year traffic level, thanks to the higher exposure to commercial traffic and the fact that this asset is still ramping up.

Like in the case of Toronto, the increase in restrictions on GRN was made by a smaller impact on traffic levels than what we saw in the beginning of the pandemic. Dallas-Fort Worth is progressing well with the vaccination, and we expect it will have a positive result in recovering mobility in the area in the following months. Now entering in more detail about the 407 results. We talked enough about traffic and the severe restrictions to mobility that have influenced results last year. In terms of tariffs, we increased them in February last year and maintained for the rest of 2020. This implies that of seasonal tariff scheme that we announced in December 2019, only the first of the changes was implemented. We have not announced a tariff increase for 2021 in December because we are in the middle of a stay-at-home order.

This being said, we have the flexibility to change prices at any point during 2021 if restrictions to mobility are lifted and traffic recovers. In terms of Schedule 22, including the conditions of the contract, a pandemic is a reason of force majeure which sole prevent Schedule 22 from being applied. In addition, the spirit of the contract is to relieve off congestion the network, especially the 401, and congestion which is not existing today. For this reason, and following the view of both internal and external counsel, we have not registered a provision for Schedule 22 payments since the pandemic. The administration decision is expected for mid-April. 407 ETR distributed CAD 562.5 million in 2020. That at Ferrovial stake it is EUR 160 million.

The 407 board will monitor the evolution of the pandemic and will decide about new dividends this year if we are above the 1.35 times debt service coverage ratio. It is, however, not expected to see dividends from 407 at least until the second part of the year, although much will depend on the performance of the asset and traffic evolution. The financial position of the 407 is very strong, with a CAD 640 million cash position and limited debt payments in the following years. We will now take a closer look at the different levers that will impact traffic performance on the 407 ETR in the same way we'll do for the managed lanes later on. Levers which make us very optimistic about the 407 ETR future. The most important drivers in the long term are population growth and economic activity in the area.

Third-party forecasts about these factors are very positive. Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area is expected to add over two million people in the next 20 years, thanks to a diversified economy that will attract immigration from other areas and is expected to grow GDP by 5% in 2021 and 4.5% in 2022. The 407 will be a facilitator of this growth, connecting business and population along the corridor, which will capture much of the population growth. In 2020, 74% of the growth in the area took place in areas which were directly serviced by the 407 ETR. E-commerce has already had a positive impact on traffic in 2020. There has been a strong growth of delivery company trips through the year. E-commerce will be a positive contributor to the 407.

There are many different estimates, but all point to relevant growth. We are seeing more and more companies locating close to the 407 to take advantage of the time savings compared to alternative routes. The 407 is good value for money for them. E-commerce growth in traffic comes from additional impacts, more individual purchases, failed deliveries, returns, and shorter delivery time frames being offered to customers. It is also changing patterns with more traffic at peaks and middays, and less on weekends and nights. With our price flexibility, we can adapt to these changes on patterns. I know that change in work from home has been a topic difficult to forecast. Before the pandemic, between 7%-13% of Canadians were doing some kind of working from home. During the worst times of the pandemic in April, with a stay-at-home order, 40% of Canadians were working from home.

Last employer survey, that is from the Q3 of 2020, suggests that most businesses expect workers to be back in the office after the pandemic. Third-party estimates suggest that the percentage of people will do some kind of work from home will be between 15% and 20%, and very few full-time. In addition, it is good to remember that 85.6% of personal customers make less than three trips a month, and most customers do not use the 407 daily, even if commuting. No doubt that there will be an impact from work from home in the short term, but we are confident that it will be soon compensated by population and economic growth. There have been some comments about the impact of a new highway on the north of the 407, between 10- 15 kilometers from segment C3 and C4.

We have brought two maps that could be illustrative about this highway. The first on the left is from Google Maps. It shows congestion in Toronto on a normal Wednesday at 5:10 P.M., 5:20 P.M. before the pandemic. Red and orange lines are those with congestion. You can see how relevant is the 407 to solve the problem of congestion in the city and how far is the 413 from congested areas. There are no time savings using this potential new highway. The map on the right is also from Google Maps. You can see urbanized areas in Toronto and the Green Belt. Even if the 413 is built in 10, 15 years' time, our estimates of the impact on traffic in the 407 at that time are minimal. Now moving to managed lanes.

I commented previously how Dallas was less affected than Toronto by mobility restrictions, and it reflected on traffic. Now afternoon peaks are close to pre-COVID levels. Even the NTE had entered mandatory mode several times during December. Some of these managed lanes are very young, and we are still ramping up prices. We also benefited from heavy vehicles resilience supported by e-commerce that helped to have healthy increases of average revenue per transaction. LBJ, as commented previously, distributed its first dividend last year, EUR 109 million at Ferrovial, and NTE distributed EUR 25 million to Ferrovial. Debt service coverage ratio is 1.2 times for NTE and LBJ, and NTE 35W cannot pay dividends until five years after fully open, which will happen in 2023. We also refinance the debt at LBJ, reducing interest payments by $22 million per annum.

Looking at the main indicator for Dallas-Fort Worth of population and economic growth, the perspective for our managed lanes there looks great. This area brought many new businesses last year with a 1.7% increase in population, and it is expected to add another 4 million in the next 20 years thanks to a diversified and dynamic economy. Our managed lanes are located close to the most congested areas of the region and will add great value to our customers in terms of time savings and reliability. In terms of e-commerce, things are also looking good. Different statistics, but all pointing in the same direction with very relevant growth in the next 10 years. Most of the new warehouses in the area are located close to our managed lanes.

We have already talked about the benefits, so I do not need to do it again, but e-commerce has a multiplier effect with additional positive changes on traffic patterns. Now touching work from home. In the case of Dallas, we are giving some external data that will be useful. Before the pandemic, 8% work only from home more than two times a month. During peak COVID-19, work from home rose to around 30%- 45%. In the case of Dallas, office occupancy stands at 37.1% in February, one of the highest in the country, and considering that offices are restricted to 50% capacity. According to a Georgia Tech study, work from home could reach 10% after the pandemic. It is true that work from home could bring some work flexibility, but we can also adapt our toll rate to change in patterns in a more congested area.

Also, it is relevant to understand that 82% of our managed lanes customers use them less than one trip per month, and that only 0.5% of light vehicles customers made more than five trips a week pre-COVID-19. Moving to Heathrow. Total passengers last year were 22.1 million, a 72.7% reduction versus previous year, even with an increase in cargo performance and the concentration of incumbent airlines and eight new entrants. Our EBITDA was GBP 270 million, with GBP 184 million exceptional cost related to business transformation, asset impairments, and write-offs. Heathrow reduced OpEx by GBP 303 million in 2020 and deferred or canceled GBP 700 million of CapEx. Financial position of GBP 3.9 billion, sufficient liquidity to cover the next 18-24 months. We took adequate measures to strengthen the capital structure and mitigate pre-2021 in anticipation of continued mobility restrictions that will be relaxed, hopefully, during the year.

Looking ahead at Heathrow, at the investor report prepared in December, they were expecting 37 million passengers in 2021 and no covenant breach considering mitigation measures and cost savings. 2021 is an intense year in terms of regulatory development for Heathrow. CAA launched this month a new consultation with four options to deal with these exceptional circumstances in which no intervention is not an option. We expect CAA will define a regulatory framework, not only to recover of investment provided to improve Heathrow for customers, but also to get fair return. Also this year, the CAA must define a sound regulatory framework that needs to rebalance risk and return and consider our business plan affected by the pandemic. The CAA must ultimately make a decision, failure to act in the right way and in a timely manner will see confidence in effective regulation evaporate.

About expansion, as you know, Supreme Court unanimously ruled the ANPS as lawful, and Heathrow will consult with all stakeholders on next steps, considering green growth agenda and the need of additional airport capacity. Sustainability is a strong part of Heathrow's strategy. It has a plan to achieve net-zero emissions by 2050, a sustainability strategy aligned with UN Sustainable Development Goals, and is advancing toward full maturity in its disclosure. AGS also suffered a traffic reduction of 75.9% with a GBP 25 million negative EBITDA. Like Heathrow, we took the steps to reduce OpEx by GBP 37 million and CapEx by GBP 25 million. Total debt is GBP 739 million with maturity in 2022, and we have ongoing dialogues to extend current financing package. So far, GBP 50 million have been contributed by shareholders with a Ferrovial share of GBP 25 million.

Construction had a good 2020, with 11.4% increase in revenues and better EBIT margins than expected, despite EUR 49 million COVID impact. EBIT margin stood at 2.3%, which is considerably better than the 1% that we expected to end the year with. This improvement was supported by the strong performance of Budimex in all its business lines, that increased the EBIT margin from 4% in 2019 to 7.6% in 2020. Very solid activity, cash flow generation of EUR 293 million. That includes EUR 98 million of divestments, and it is also supported by Budimex and the positive trend in collections. Other events to date include the conditional agreement reached this month to sell Budimex Real Estate business for EUR 331 million, and the agreement to sell 100% of Tranvía de Figueras for EUR 41 million and 22% of Urbicsa for EUR 60 million, which was reached last December and is pending approval.

Some of the impacts in the last year activity cash flow generation are exceptional. In 2021, U.S. Works is still expected to consume cash. We continue with the sale of our services division. We closed the sale of Broadspectrum last year and continue with the sale of subsets. This business generated a strong activity cash flow last year of €275 million, excluding the €300 million sale of Broadspectrum, thanks in part to good collections. We were affected by COVID-19, especially at the beginning of the pandemic, with an estimated negative impact of €100 million, but we recovered at the end of the year, especially in Spain, with revenues, EBITDA, and margins above those in 2019. Now Ernesto will continue with the financial results.

Ernesto López Mozo
CFO, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. Good afternoon, good morning. Well, starting in the results below the operating EBITDA, we have the disposals and impairments, and here we have a low number for this year. In 2019, please remember that we had the divestment of Ausol with that important capital gain. If we get into financial results, really, we can explain the main difference just by the performance of the equity swaps that hedge the share plans for employees. Remember that in 2019, we had an appreciation of the share that led to a EUR 25 million income from these hedges, but the drop in 2020 has meant a EUR 10 million drop. This EUR 35 million difference is the main explanation for this difference in financial expenses. You have other effects, they are described here in this slide, but pretty much offset one another.

If we go into the equity accounted affiliates, as Ignacio was mentioning before, the drop in traffic has affected the results from airports, Heathrow mainly, that is the main impact in this caption. The depreciation and financial expenses have weighed heavily in the results here. Also there are other extraordinary items, most of them non-cash, that are described at the bottom of the slide that I will briefly comment. The first one is derivatives that you know from other presentations to hedge inflation, exposure to the RAB and revenues, and also cross-currency swaps. All these are economic hedges, but they don't have treatment in accounting for hedges, right? I would like to thank all the comments that have been given to IFRIC on the interpretation of the standard, looking for hedge treatment for these volatile results. In terms of fixed assets, we have had some write-offs.

These are of projects that no longer would be pursued, you don't capitalize them; you have to spend them. You have a positive inflow in pensions that is EUR 11.5 million, and this is reflecting the better conditions after the negotiation with the employees to make Heathrow more efficient. Of course, all these initiatives, of cost efficiencies, have come with restructuring provisions that we mentioned there, GBP 32.5 million. All these are at our share. Then you have the last one is the change in the U.K. corporate income tax that has an effect on deferred tax liabilities of EUR 27.8 million. Of course, this is a non-cash item. Okay? Heathrow is affected by these volatility results that most of them doesn't impact in cash terms.

If we move into the corporate income tax, if you take into account that equity accounted affiliates already come net of taxes, you will see that this positive income from taxes compared to the profit before taxes. This is due to the recognition of deferred tax assets in Spain and the U.S. Even though we have a prudent approach, we had to release and bring to the balance sheet those credits. You have the net profit from discontinued operations, and here you have a mix of fair value adjustment in Amey of EUR 34 million. This is related to some specific projects. We corrected the carrying amount of investment in these projects because they are likely or subject to be sold separately. Okay? Had they been in the mix of Amey, probably we wouldn't have had this impact.

We have something similar in Ferrovial Services International of EUR 25 million. The impact of Broadspectrum was discussed in other meetings and basically it's translation differences that have to come to the P&L once it's sold. Last but not least, we have a positive recognition of €121 million in Ferrovial Servicios. Here, according to the standards, you recognize the results. There's headroom in the fair value. These results reflect the good performance, in particular of the waste treatment business. Okay. With all that, let's move to the following slide to look at the cash generation. Here we see different inflows. We have the dividends from projects for EUR 158 million. Here you have probably noticed that we have dividends from toll roads in €340 million, airports €29 million. Therefore, the rest is from concessions from services.

They are from waste concessions or tunnel operation concessions, and these are in the process of being sold. We have had these dividends ahead of the sale. We have the EBITDA and the working capital evolution. Here, the working capital evolution, I would like to mention that the improvement is in part due to, an important part due to better collection from public clients, and this is something we expect to continue until the economy is in a more solid footing. Okay, good days of collection here. In taxes, the main component is Poland. Here in Poland, the underlying business is very solid, and therefore, if you take provisions of contracts or whatever, they are not tax-deductible. That's the reason why we have this cash outflow in taxes. We have investments and divestments that we have mentioned and shareholder remuneration.

In other financing cash flows, just to close the gap to the final position, we have the deconsolidation of the net cash from Broadspectrum. We also have dividends to minorities in the Budimex that come here, then translation effect in cash balances in zlotys and U.S. dollars. It has been a very good year in cash generation. The position has improved in EUR 360 million, and we leave the year with EUR 2 billion in net cash position. Now let me hand over to Rafael for the closing remarks.

Rafael del Pino
Chairman, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ernesto. Well, as I said before, in the current situation, the visibility remains limited, and it is difficult to provide any guidance.

This being said, we remain confident that when we look ahead, that our assets have long duration, are located in diversified growth areas, have flexibility to adapt to changes in behavior patterns that may come, and should play a key role in relieving capacity constraints in their regions. Our strategy is also clear, focusing on developing efficient, innovative, and sustainable infrastructure that will create value for all our stakeholders. We see clear opportunities ahead, not only building on our competitive advantages, but also having enough financial strength to reap attractive growth opportunities that we believe will come. Lastly, looking at shareholder remuneration, the board has approved two scrip dividends, which as a reference would imply EUR 0.20 and EUR 0.313 per share. We will continue with our share buyback program of up to EUR 320 million or 22 million shares. For now, we open the floor to questions.

Thank you. Begoña?

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you very much, Rafael, Ignacio, and Ernesto. The Q&A session will begin shortly. Please stay tuned. The first set of questions come from Alejandro Vigil from Bestinver. First of all, Ontario's proposal of the new Highway 413. What is Ferrovial's view of the possibility and its impact in the 407 ETR?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Thank you, Alejandro. Yeah, I commented previously on the 413, that as you saw, it's very far from the congestion in the area. Also, it's very close to a green belt with not a lot of residential business around that area. Because of that, what we consider if this project goes ahead, that it will take time before they get the environmental assessment approval and then the construction, that it will not happen before 10, 15 years if at the end they get the environmental approval, considering that it's a green belt. Our estimates at that time is that the impact on traffic for the 407 will be minimal. Because we are much closer to the congestion area, and we have the time savings that the 413 will not have.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. The next question also from Alejandro. Dividend to be collected in terms of expectations for 2021 and 2022 and CapEx commitment in 2021 and 2022, referring to the 407 ETR.

Ernesto López Mozo
CFO, Ferrovial

Okay. Thanks. We don't provide guidance for expectations of dividends in the 407 under the current situation. What we've always mentioned is that dividends in 2021 would have to be back loaded at the end of the year due to the natural evolution of the traffic, right? Remember that in 2020, the pandemic hit more deeply in mid-March through June, right? That comparison would affect to the, let's say, ratios needed for the payment of dividends. We expect the dividends to be back loaded in the H2 of the year, more at the end. Regarding the CapEx commitments, where the 407, you know that on a regular basis invests close to CAD 100 million in the wideness and refurbishments, and we would expect something below that. That should be the normal running number here.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ernesto. The next question also from Alejandro. Pipeline of new infrastructure projects, opportunities for Ferrovial in U.S. managed lanes, et cetera.

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

As I commented previously. For us, a relevant part of our strategy is to develop toll roads in the U.S., managed lanes, and it will continue to be the case. We have identified as part of the pipeline, we include there managed lanes, but also other toll roads in other markets. The total amount is €8 billion of equity. It's a pipeline that is including unsolicited projects. We are not disclosing the places in which we are working yet, but the main focus is in the U.S. Of course, this is a pipeline that takes time. Some of these projects may not happen in the future. Some of them will be a competitive bidding, like the one in Maryland.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. The next question also from Alejandro. Could you update on the disposal process on services?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Yeah. As commented, we are proceeding now with the sale of subsets. Everything is under sale right now in different processes. As soon as we have some information that we close an agreement with a buyer, we will communicate. Hopefully we see some traction during this year, 2021. We are working on all separate subsets, and we'll communicate whenever we have information to share with you.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. The last question from Alejandro refers to new businesses. There's media coverage regarding the interest in transmission lines in Chile, flying taxis venture in Florida, et cetera. What would be the investment size in the new businesses?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Yeah. As committed, as part of our strategy, we are interested in developing other infra assets. We define there a pipeline at around EUR 0.5 billion in transmission lines in general. This is mainly in Latin American markets. Could be Chile, Colombia, Peru, or others. We are working on them. Of course, we don't comment about any specific transaction or bidding process in which we are. Mobility, as you know, we are there in order to understand how the new infra is going to develop. One of the things that is happening today is talking a lot about the eVTOLs and the vertiports. What we are doing is trying to learn about the new infra that is going to be needed for this new type of mobility. Of course, this is a very limited investment, that it will happen several years' time.

What we are doing right now is learning. Of course, we have reached an agreement and as we've communicated with Lilium and exploring in Florida, a number of vertiports there. I think that location is important, and that's why we are anticipating for a new infra that may be needed in the future.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. The next set of questions come from Felipe Leite from CaixaBank BPI. Can you give us an update on the situation of the Maryland managed lanes?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Well, yes. About Maryland, as you know, we are the largest developer, builder, and operator of managed lanes in the U.S. We have proven expertise in these complex projects. The decision was communicated last week, and which was defined another consortium as winner. We are, as a result of that announcement and a result of the significant gap in the financial score of the bidders communicated to the public by the owner, in the process of analyzing the results and any information provided in connection to the bid process. We have signed a confidentiality agreement, and unfortunately, I cannot comment further at this point in time. I can assure you that we are very focused on continuing developing managed lanes in the U.S.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. Lastly, from Felipe, do you expect dividends from infrastructure assets in 2021 and 2022 to cover the required equity investment in the I-66?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Well, the CapEx investment in the I-66 next year is around EUR 600 million, a figure close to that. In two years, sorry. This will not happen only next year, but it's between this and the following year, is around EUR 6 million. We don't give any, of course, guidance about what is going to be the dividends. The rationale was explained before by Ernesto because of 407 and similar in other places. We don't give information about expected dividends and guidance about that.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. The next set of questions come from Fernando Lafuente, from Alantra Capital. On the 407 ETR Schedule 22 scheme, if it were to apply for 2020, what would be the penalty that you would face?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Well, as commented, right now the pandemic is a force majeure clause as part of the contract. At the same time, the spirit of that clause is related to congestion in the area, especially the 401. That's why we didn't take any provision for Schedule 22 payments since the beginning of the pandemic. In the future, of course, when it is over, as you know the way it works, now that this traffic is compared to a certain target, there is a penalty that you have to pay when you reach those targets. The reference, as you know, is 2019, in which we paid less than CAD 3 million with the traffic at that time.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. The next question from Fernando. Regarding 407 ETR tariffs, they were flat year to date. Given the difference in traffic mix, what are the average tariffs going to do in 2021?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Last year, as you know, as committed previously, we increased tariffs in February last year. Since then, we have kept them flat. We have not announced an increase for 2021. As you know, we have the flexibility to do at any point of time if the traffic recovers. With that price flat, of course, yes, it will depend on the timing of the traffic, the traffic mix, and all the parameters. That may change if it's peak or not peak, or which section of the road, and so on that we have as you know, different type of tariffs at different time of the day with different type of vehicles. It will depend on that until we decide to change the tariffs.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you very much, Ignacio. The next question, also from Fernando, and his last one regarding construction, EBITDA and EBIT. It almost doubled at year-end versus the nine months 2020 results. Can you explain why? Does it include any exceptionals, or is the performance sustainable going forward? In addition, what is the EBIT margin guidance for 2021?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

The guidance that we gave about that is 3.5% EBIT by year 2024. This is what we are working for. At the end, yes, of the quarter, I think we have a good performance coming from Budimex. Especially from the real estate business. I don't know if, Ernesto, you want to comment something further?

Ernesto López Mozo
CFO, Ferrovial

Yes. Well, regarding the margins, yes, the Q4 was very good for different reasons in all construction. I can mention some of them. Well, the first one is that impact from COVID-19 were not really that material in the Q4. The cumulative for the year is close to EUR 49 million, and in September, we were at EUR 44 million. Very limited impact and very good production. Even though there were a lot of lockdowns, our sites continued producing very well. In Budimex, it's true that the real estate business was doing very well and even had some release of provisions, but clearly had a very good quarter. Also we had, in other regions, some claims that were recognized and collected end of the year. Yes, a very good quarter. We cannot extrapolate, let's say, the margin for this quarter going forward.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio and Ernesto. The next set of questions come from Marcin Wojtal from Bank of America. What will be the dividend policy of NTE and LBJ managed lanes going forward? Will they distribute 100% of their free cash flow?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

The decision about dividends will be taken by the board of the NTE and LBJ, of course, it will be based on the traffic evolution and their expectations, and also with the goal to keep investment grade in both NTE and LBJ. Based on that, they will distribute the dividends.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. Also from Marcin, how much of the traffic in 407 ETR and U.S. managed lanes relates to daily commuting?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

We don't disclose information about that. During the presentation today, we give some information about that usually very few use it more than five times a week. Very few are daily commuters that use regularly. Most people use it three times a month or less.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. Lastly, from Marcin, should the grantor require the 407 ETR to make a payment based on Schedule 22 for 2020, is there any mechanism to appeal such a decision?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Yes, there is an appeal process that we can bring, and yes, it will be based, of course, on the contract. Yes, we can appeal to the decision.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. The next set of questions come from Jenny Ping from Citigroup. Can you tell us how the recent extreme weather has impacted mobility in Texas?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

It has been very sad what happened in Texas with this winter storm, which has impacted not only the traffic but also the power and water outlets that affected so many people and so many deaths and people affected. I have to say that, yes, because of the winter storm, most of the lines of our main toll roads were closed, and we only habilitate one or two lanes that they were clean during the winter storm. It affected from the February 13th- 21st, in which we closed the managed lanes and also the general purpose lanes was only one or two lanes that were in perfect condition for the traffic. Yes, we were affected by the winter storm during this period of time.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. Also from Jenny, can you confirm if the recent accident in Texas highway was on your tolled asset? If so, can you give us more details of the closure of such an asset?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Yes. As commented previously about this exceptional winter storm that affected car accidents, but also power and water outlets. There was a multiple collision in the NTE project, sadly resulting in 6 fatalities and several people injured. Prior to the accident, NTE 35W protected the road in accordance with applicable standards, best practices, and continued to patrol and monitor the road conditions through the storm. In addition, at the time of the incident, the electronic variable sign was advising drivers of the adverse weather condition and asking drivers to proceed with caution. Yes, we are cooperating with authorities' investigation, especially the NTSB. That is the one in charge of this investigation.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. The next question comes from Robert Crimes from Insight. How keen were you to win Maryland phase one? What were the main differences in the Ferrovial bid and that of winner Transurban?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Well, of course, this was a very relevant project for us. As I commented previously, we are the largest developer, builder, and operator of managed lanes, so we put all our expertise and proven expertise in this complex project that we think that we could deliver in an excellent way. Also, as commented previously, around this, on the communication coming to the public, not by the owner, we saw a significant gap in the financial score. What we are now is in the process of analyzing these results and any information provided in connection to the bid process. Unfortunately, at this point of time, we cannot say more because of this confidentiality agreement that we signed.

We are very open in the future to comment about it once we don't have this NDA in place or with any public information that could come from the owner in the following days.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. The next set of questions come from José Arroyo from Santander. Will Ferrovial not participate in phase two of the Maryland Traffic Relief Plan?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

At this time, Maryland DOT selected the phase developer that is for phase I, and they also will have a right to develop the second phase. If they close and they reach commercial agreement, they will have a right to develop the following phase.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. Also from José. Ferrovial's holding company is very strongly capitalized now, with net cash approaching EUR 2 billion and further expected cash inflows in 2021 from planned sales of other assets. How should we think about Ferrovial using this cash in the medium and long term?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Well, the first priority will be to develop the pipeline that we have commented previously. We focus on developing managed lanes in the U.S. and toll roads, airports, and other infra assets. Hopefully we develop enough opportunities with the double-digit return that we require to our investments, and we allocate this money to develop this infrastructure.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. The next set of questions come from Nabil Ahmed from Barclays. First of all, you mentioned flat prices for 407 ETR. Could you please elaborate on Texas managed lane pricing strategy this year? Is it fair to assume modest or no increase initially, and maybe the unwinding of the positive mix when traffic normalizes?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

In the case of the Dallas managed lanes and the pricing expectations, first you have to consider that we are ramping up some of these assets, not only in traffic, but also in terms of pricing, especially the NTE 35W. Still also we have opportunities at the NTE level and of course the I-77, of course. We have price flexibility. As commented, we may see some changes in traffic patterns, especially during the midday, that we see more traffic than before. There could be opportunities to take advantage of these traffic patterns with the price flexibility that we have. We have some inflation increase in the soft cap. There may be, depending on the traffic, increases based on mandatory mode. Also a mixed traffic that also could influence the evolution of tariffs in these managed lanes.

These are the things, of course, it will depend on the traffic and the opportunities that we may have, based always on the value that we can give to customers for time savings and reliability.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. Next question, also from Nabil. Could you please elaborate about the GBP 600 million cash injection in Heathrow SP in the Q4 of the year? Would you expect to contribute more?

Ernesto López Mozo
CFO, Ferrovial

Yes. Thanks for the question, Nabil. Well, the first is I need to clear out where this money comes from. Heathrow raised deeply subordinated debt, GBP 750 million above Heathrow Finance. That is the holding above Heathrow SP. Okay? We have three layers. This layer that is the most subordinated, GBP 750 million, were raised in the market. This was subsequently injected into Heathrow Finance and Heathrow SP. The GBP 600 million equity into Heathrow SP comes from that capital market transaction. Of course, it's equity for Heathrow SP, the ring-fence.

Okay. The last question was, do we expect to do more of this? There's plenty of liquidity right now. There's no need for further liquidity. In terms of covenants, Heathrow explained very well in yesterday's results conference call that according to their projections of 37 million passengers, there's no need, no risk in covenants. If a severe but downside plausible scenario, let's say, that they mention of 27 million passengers, also could be handled with some of the mitigating actions that they have. They have a lot of leeway. Of course, if the situation is worse, we'd have to readdress this. With the current scenario that Heathrow has, there's no need for, let's say, additional liquidity or capital.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ernesto. The next question, also from Nabil. Heathrow liquidity seems to be managed for 2021 only. What if the CAA regulation does not come in time or does not provide the support that you are hoping for?

Ernesto López Mozo
CFO, Ferrovial

Well, really, Heathrow is not asking the regulator for liquidity. This needs to be very clear. What Heathrow is asking for is a restatement of the RAB that covers for the recovery of the investment a long time. In the future, when users use the airport, would be paying the investment and the returns. It's the minimum required and the return and the recovery of the investment that Heathrow is asking for. You have to remember that the asset is being depreciated now, and without any income. That's like, let's say, not recovering the investment. It's like giving that investment for free. What Heathrow is asking for is for regulation to act here and protect the investment, of course, investment that will be collected in the future. It's not asking for liquidity now.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

The next set of questions come from Luis Prieto at Kepler Cheuvreux. First question, can a situation in which shareholders have to inject capital into Heathrow Topco be completely ruled out? I'm sorry, this question has already been answered previously by Ernesto. We'll move on to the following question. Could you please provide a bit of granularity on the potential North American project pipeline, including the $8 billion figure on slide five?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

U.S. is most of this $8 billion equity. We are working mainly to develop managed lanes in the U.S., also another toll roads that traffic risk that they could be in the U.S. It's mainly managed lanes and some of the projects, most of them are unsolicited that we are working with the DOTs. We are including also other projects, but smaller ones in Chile, Peru, and Colombia, compared to that. We don't disclose further information for the time being because we don't want to give information to competitors now about which projects we are working. You can assume that most of it is related to the U.S., and most of it to managed lanes..

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. The next set of questions come from Ruchil Paiva from Stifel Europe. Question number one, do you have an estimate of where you think the construction division's underlying EBIT margin currently sits? Do you have a target margin for 2021? Part of this has already been answered before. Additionally, is the 2024 EBIT margin of 3.5% still maintained?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Yes, it is maintained. As commented previously, our target is to reach the 3.5% margin by 2024. We don't disclose internal targets for 2021 yet. We have them, but we are not disclosing it. We are working hard to reach this 3.5% by 2024.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. The next question, also from Ruchil. Are you able to provide an update on motorway traffic across the U.S. managed lanes business and the 407 ETR in the year to date, especially as the risk from COVID-19 in the United States seems to be slowing in the past few weeks?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Well, as commented during the presentation, in the 407, it's still at Toronto area. It's the Ontario stay-at-home order. The traffic has been affected since the end of December because of that, but not at the levels that we saw in April that were 80% below previous year. That's better than at that period of time, even with a similar lockdown. Of course, in the following weeks or months, we'll see hopefully an improvement with the vaccination and the reduction of new positives in the area and some of the neighborhoods, not Toronto or Peel, but they are starting to relax some of this lockdown. We expect that it will improve. In the case of Texas. They are very fast with the vaccination, and as you know, in some cases, 12% or above, and they are moving very fast.

For the time being, because of Christmas and the effect of Thanksgiving, they maintain still the same mobility restrictions. We should expect that in the following months, we'll see an improvement because of the vaccinations reaching certain levels and the new level of positives will be much lower than before. We have been affected, as commented previously, by the winter storm, and especially this almost a week in which the mandatory mode were not operating because of the extreme weather conditions.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. The next question come from Samson Jayes, From Ananda Asset Management. Would you consider divesting any further infrastructure assets?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Well, our strategy is to develop infra assets, and at the same time, as part of that strategy, is to rotate them once they are mature. I think that the same way that we did with Ausol or last year with the Norte Litoral, for instance, or Algarve. If some assets are mature and they have more value for a third party than to us, we'll do it.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. Next set of questions come from Tobias Woerner from Stifel Europe. Do you have railway construction capability in the U.S., given that this is an area of interest for Joe Biden? Is there also an opportunity for railway concessions? If so, would you be interested?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Yes, we will be interested in rail opportunities in the areas in which we have construction capabilities in the U.S. We are doing today construction, the highest speed rail in California, one of the sections, we are building them today. Yes, we are doing metros, underground metros in many other places. Yes, we have rail capabilities that if there are concessions, we're very open to analyze, but only restricted to the places where we have construction capabilities.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. Also from Tobias, how do you see the recovery for Heathrow in terms of profitability over the years? What things do we have to consider long-term effects of the crisis?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

As you know, Heathrow is a regulated asset. There will be a H7 period in which we are considering as part of the business plan that it will take a long period of time to recover the level of traffic that we had before. We recover and we expect to have a return for the investment that we have made during this period of time based on the traffic that we are forecasting. Even if we see that there may be an impact in the short term to recover the level of passengers, that will be included as part of the business plan, and also as part of the number of passengers and the returns that they are giving to the investment that we are taking there or we have taken there.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. Also from Tobias, what about AGS? Do you need to insert capital here over and above the GBP 25 million already committed?

Ernesto López Mozo
CFO, Ferrovial

Okay. Here the GBP 25 million committed, it's what is expected in terms of liquidity needs, maybe for this year, with some recovery in traffic. What is true is that negotiations to extend the financing will take place, of course, this will be commercially sensitive. There could be a number of capital part of the refinancing discussions, that is something that we will see a long time. In terms of liquidity needs, it would be more or less enough.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ernesto. Lastly, from Tobias, what impact could you see the EU Next Generation Recovery Plan to have on your activities in Europe and Spain and Poland? When do you expect this to take place?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

We have presented several initiatives for these next years. Hopefully, we see some traction during this year. It's a large amount for a stimulus. It's mainly related to things that could improve the sustainability, the digital, and also the regional inclusion. We will participate in part of it, mainly related to, in Spain, to residential buildings, improvement in some of the projects that there could be. It could be a large pipeline, nothing concrete in the short term. We have presented several proposals, and let's see which of them we have the capabilities, and we can take value out of them. Still is nothing concrete in the short term.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. The next question comes from Nicolas Mora from Morgan Stanley. In terms of disposals, the bears will say you seem engulfed in a fire sale of assets. The bulls will say that you're building a large, comfortable buffer in terms of liquidity. How should we understand the meaningful pickup in disposals at all the business levels?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Well, it is part of our strategy that we have defined before. We are concentrating on developing and operating innovative, efficient, and sustainable infrastructure. The core business are related to toll roads, airports, construction and also other infra assets that we want to develop. At the end, those that are not related, like the services division, so we are divesting. Also as commented previously, those that are mature and availabilities that it has more value for a third party, like the type of ourselves, now that we have financial institutions, they are taking them from a much lower returns than they were, we are expecting from our investments, while we rotate them once they are mature, like the availabilities. I would say that all what we are doing is part of our strategy.

Our main value is related to developing infra assets and those like services, well, we'll divest them.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. The next set of questions come from Charles Maynadier from Kempen. What is the timeline of the EUR 9.5 billion pipeline described for toll roads, airports, electrification, and water?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Well, this is the pipeline, I think, which we are working, I would say for the next years. Of course, as commented previously, maybe some of it will not happen. Things I think with some of them we are bidding or preparing to bid, and others in which we are still working, and we may see that is launched in the following months. Hopefully, I think that as part of the recovery and with COVID, we'll see more traction with some of the projects, and hopefully we see them transform into opportunities very soon.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. Also from Charles, could you remind us what the rationale is to go into electrification and water opportunities compared to staying in transportation infrastructure? Could you share some color on the competitive landscape regarding this pipeline?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

As you saw before, the main pipeline and things in which we are working are related to toll roads and also airports. Still the pipeline that we have related to electrification and water is not very large. It's less than EUR 0.5 billion. We already have capabilities both in water and electrification. In the case of electrification, we have transmission lines in Chile. Also we have EPC contractor capabilities. We are doing renewable energy, renewable projects. We are doing service stations. We are doing concessional projects, energy efficiency also in Spain and other markets. It's an area in which we feel comfortable.

It will be just reduced to the countries in which we have defined as top tier and core, and there we have the capabilities to develop other infra assets that I think that it will be increased in the future, that the request for this type of projects. Now in the case of water, we have two companies, Cadagua and Pepper Lawson in the U.S., and we do contracting work, but also we do some maintenance and we have capabilities also to do concessional works in water. Some of this pipeline will take a longer time, but there are some projects that it may happen at some point of time, especially now with COVID, that municipalities and different administrations will need more from private investors in order to develop some of the infrastructure that is very well needed. So we have capabilities in these areas.

We want to grow them if we see that they are requesting for concessional projects, and we will do them if we see that they create value and we can get these double-digit returns. In some of the places there are competitors, but I will say that similar number of competitors are the ones that we see in the transport business, both in toll roads and airport. Even in airports, in the past we used to have more competitions than in this infra electrification and water.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. Last question from Charles. Are you committed to keeping your stake in Budimex, or can we expect a divestment at some point in the future?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

No, we are comfortable with our position in Budimex. I think it's a key player in the Polish market. I see them more focused on developing infrastructure. They have very good capabilities. We are very happy with our position in Budimex.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

Thank you, Ignacio. The last question comes from Elodie Rall from J.P. Morgan. When will you be in a position to revert to pre-crisis level of dividends?

Ignacio Madridejos
CEO, Ferrovial

Regarding dividends, of course, will take the decisions by the board, and it will be based on the forecast that we have for the following years of investments that we may have and other sources of income. Based on that and the cash that they will generate with the different business, it will be taking the decision by the board every year with the same policies that we have until now.

Begoña Morenés
Head of Investor Relations, Ferrovial

There are no further questions.

Rafael del Pino
Chairman, Ferrovial

Okay, thank you very much for attending this 2020 results conference. Look forward to engaging with you again soon. Thank you very much. Good afternoon or good morning to wherever you are. Good evening. Bye.