Naturgy Energy Group, S.A. (BME:NTGY)
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Apr 27, 2026, 5:35 PM CET
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Earnings Call: Q4 2022

Feb 15, 2023

Abel Arbat
Capital Markets Director, Naturgy

Good morning, everyone. This is Abel Arbat speaking from the capital markets team at Naturgy. Thank you for joining our results call for the full year 2022. Next to me is our Executive Chairman, Francisco Reynés, our Head of Financial Markets, Steven Fernández , and our Head of Financial Planning and Control, Jon Ganuza, together with our Secretary of the Board, Manuel García Cobaleda. We're going to run over the presentation first, and at the end, we will open the floor to Q&A via submitted questions through the webcast. With that said, I'm handing it over to the company's chairman to go over the presentation. Francisco, please.

Francisco Reynés
Executive Chairman and CEO, Naturgy

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us. 2022 results presentation. You have our information package available on our website and we are going to go through the presentation without taking a lot of details on that, considering that they are at your availability and after our presentation, we will go on Q&A session for those questions you may rise. Starting with a global view of 2022, I would like to highlight 3 important ideas. Number one is about the scenario. Volatility, and in particular in gas prices, has been the most important thing to manage. The team has been involving in many hours dedicated to manage the extreme volatility of gas prices in general and that have impacted also the electricity market.

On the second side of this, the change of this scenario, we would like to highlight the extreme amount of new regulations, over 20 during the year, that have been clearly impacting the way how we manage and will manage the business from now on. Within this environment, I would like to highlight three important roles that Naturgy took place. Number one is about our key role in guaranteeing energy security to the country in both sides in terms of gas as being the major importer, we have been negotiating with Sonatrach prices and with other suppliers without putting on risk, the supplies of these goods to the country. Also thanks to having the large fleet of turbine cycles in the Iberian Peninsula, we have been able to provide electricity as much as needed to guarantee no blackouts during this period.

As you know, it has been a very dry season in year 2022, and it has also not been very positive in terms of other renewable resources like wind. Important to highlight our clear proactivity in finding solutions for our clients. In this scenario of volatility, we really are committed with our clients in trying to find solutions that could benefit. We started back to 2021 last quarter with our Iniciativa Compromiso, which has been the starting point of a change in the electricity market in Spain. We continue with other initiatives during the year 2022 that altogether could have been impacted over 60% of our customer base.

In terms of investment, our commitment in energy transition is there, we have continued, continue investing in terms of CapEx, over 70% of our eligible CapEx has to be with taxonomy within the EU. In terms of results, you have already seen that. Number one is we follow the trend that we have explained to the market that how the business was evolving during the year 2022. For those that follow at that time this information, the final results of 2022 should not surprise what has already been said. Important to highlight is the deleveraging of the debt in our balance sheet. In terms of dividends, nothing new.

We have a commitment that is about EUR 1.20 for the year, that in particular in this year, that represents a ratio of 70% of payout. Finally, as you can also see, progress on our ESG metrics as a demonstration of our commitment with this energy transition policy. I will not stop for long on the scenario. You know probably better than me what happened following day by day, what is in the commodity prices, as you can see, those two ideas. One idea is important change in all prices, average to average, 2021 to 2022.

Second idea is high volatility between max and min. In all the different metrics you may find, gas and oil and also CO2, you see a clear trend during the year 2022 with unprecedented rise in commodity prices. Just as an example, what happened with the TTF, well-known by all of you. If you compare TTF evolution prices with Brent prices, you have here a very clear indication of how all the different scenarios, including the war in Ukraine and other speculation scenarios around energy prices, have been moving the TTF in ups and downs during the whole year, you know?

We have also getting benefiting from a certain appreciation of US dollars and related currencies to US dollar in our portfolio, in particular Mexican peso and Brazilian real, including the U.S. dollar that has impacted in our accounts. As you know well, Argentina peso has continued devaluating during the year. No? I mentioned before the year 2022, we will remember it also because of a really very important work on the regulatory side. We have reinforced our team. We have established our regulatory team as top in the strategic agenda of the company, considering what has been incorporated and what it seems to be incorporated in the next coming quarters.

In both areas, more local in Spain, global in Europe, it has been, as I said, over 20 different regulatory measures taken. In Spain in particular, want to highlight 5 of them. One is a temporary cap on the gas prices on regulated gas prices, what we call it here TUR, T-U-R. Since March 2022, a cap on the electricity prices at the level of EUR 67 megawatt for all inframarginal or almost all inframarginal electricity production. This is compared to the 65 that Naturgy has by their own initiative, started to implement to our clients in September 2021. Important additional measures have been taken to protect vulnerable customers.

In terms of the Iberian exception, something decided between Spain and the Spanish and Portuguese governments, a temporary cap has been established on gas prices that is the responsible for a decoupling of the full electricity prices between Spain and the rest of the main of the main important countries in Europe. Finally, the extraordinary two years tax of 1.2% of turnover within Spain, excluding regulatory activities that is applicable in 2023 and 2024 and is not accrued in the accounts of 2022 by indication of regulators and auditors, but is included in the figures that we have highlighted as a guidance for 2023. Europe is also regulating a lot.

Everything started with a very important fear on inventories of gas for winter 2022, and that increased the level of inventories from 80% in November 2022 to 90% in November 2023. Europe has also target other with-for-profit taxes in a different way that Spain did it. There is today a work in process action led by the European Union to contribute as one single platform of joint purchases of gas. This is something under discussion on which Naturgy is being consulted. Price cap on TTF gas prices has started in January 2023 after the regulation to cap the prices at the level of EUR 180 megawatt.

Finally, and probably the most important is starting discussions that should finish during this year or at least at the beginning of next year on the electricity market and the European power market is under revision. Many different initiatives have been taking place by different countries and in particular, all this work is expected to be conducted during the year 23. What have we done in Naturgy? Point number one, in terms of our role in energy supply, and in particular in gas. Compared to other countries, Spain is a quite diversified country in terms of the source or the origin of the source of its gas.

Thanks to our excess of regasification capacity, we are able to be supplied over 70% of the gas by vessels through regasification stations. 70% of them is LNG, and 30% or around 30% is coming through the pipeline. You know that since October 2021, the Maghrebian pipeline has been shut down. That was a concession expected to finish by that time, and it has been impossible to renew such a concession. Therefore, since then, only the Medgaz pipeline, the one that connects straight Algeria with Spain in Almeria, is the only supply infrastructure for gas. In this regard, Spain imported by pipeline over around 130 terabytes, of which more than half were supplied by Naturgy.

In terms of LNG, 30% of the gas that has been supplied to Spain came through our vessels. That's one of the main reasons why we highlight the fact that Naturgy has been key in guaranteeing the security of supply. On the other side, power, electricity. Renewables have played a very important role during the year and is playing a more and more important role. As all of you know, renewables are subject to natural effects. The reality is that the year 2022 has been a very dry year in terms of hydro production, and wind has not been at the peak as expected.

The different combined cycles of gas, turbine cycles of gas has been the responsible to provide the lack of energy that were provided by the renewable sources. In this regard, our production in CCGT in Spain has moved from a level of 15 points within the total share to 25, and in particular, the production of our gas turbines increased to a level that was above 50% of what has been produced in the previous year. In terms of commercial activities, two important actions. One, around our Iniciativas Compromiso, commitment initiatives with our clients, different decisions taken around. Second part is facilitating the introduction of improvements in regulated tariffs, in particular gas, making life much easier to our clients.

In this regard, we have incorporated more resources to our client services in order to facilitate our clients to click the appetite for other regulated tariffs. On the third part, important to highlight the role of our foundation to support vulnerable clients through their own initiatives. I want to reinforce the idea that as a company, we are strongly committed to support initiatives that may be in the benefit of our vast different group of clients. In terms of investments, almost EUR 2 billion invested. All businesses were benefited from this investment activity, but in particular, I would like to highlight two. Number one, our networks.

In networks, around EUR 800 million were invested in both gas and electricity networks, and the same amount in the renewables, speeding up the installation of our capacity in renewable power generation. If we will need to divide this investment between two categories, I would like to highlight that most of this investment went to the growth side more than the maintenance.

That doesn't mean that we have been given up to our responsibility in maintaining our assets on good shape. They are, but we have focused more on the growth side for our investment side. In terms of taxonomy, most of the investment has gone to an eligible taxonomy objectives, supporting our commitments on ESG. I now hand it over to Steven Fernandez, who is going to briefly summarize what has been the consolidated results over the year 2022. Thank you, Steven.

Steven Fernández
Head of Investor Relations, Naturgy

All right. Thank you, Francisco. Good morning, everyone. If we move on to slide 16, we wanna discuss some of the key highlights of the year. Which, you know, it's been very busy, but I think we can summarize them in five key elements. First and foremost, a stable gas gross margin of between 5%-6% despite volatile gas scenario. That is a very important point to focus on.

The group has been very keen in managing the market volatility, and this is a result of that management. Number two, you've seen the results, and we can assess from them that the full year numbers continue the trends that we saw in the nine months of the year. We have, as the Chairman has mentioned, increased our CapEx by 30% with networks and renewals driving that effort. More than 90% of the CapEx has been dedicated to growth.

As you can see at the end of this slide, we'll discuss where our expectations are for year 2023. On top of that, we have strengthened our balance sheet, and we have significantly reduced our net debt position. Finally, as we mentioned previously, the total dividend that we will be paying against 2022 results amounts to 1.2 per share in line with our commitment with the markets and representing a payout of 70%. With that said, EBITDA amounted to around EUR 4.9 billion, mainly driven by a good performance in the liberalized activities, again, amidst the very volatile environment that we've been living in.

Net income amounted to EUR 1.6 billion, supported by activity and despite one-off effects and higher funding costs, particularly in LatAm, as a result of the higher interest rates environment, as well as higher taxes compared to the previous year. Total CapEx, as the Chairman mentioned, amount to EUR 1.9 billion and mainly driven by renewable developments in Spain and Australia, together with the investments in the networks. The strong cash flow generation in the period allowed to increase investments while also allowing us to comfortably deliver on our dividend commitments, while at the same time also reducing the debt.

If we move on to the next page, I think this is an interesting slide where you can actually see the company's prudent capital allocation for year 2022, where cash from operations has amounted to around EUR 4.3 billion. We've dedicated a significant amount of that cash to grow the company and to invest. We've kept our commitments with the markets in terms of the dividend, and of course, we've, lower our net debt. On this point, it's very important to understand that the net debt has decreased, and as a result of that, the net debt to EBITDA ratio is now down to 2.4 x.

In this sense, it's also important to understand that the corporate ratings were reaffirmed by both S&P and Fitch in October 2022 at a BBB rating. It's also worth reminding you that in November, we amortized EUR 500 million of hybrids without replacement, thus losing the equity component of the outstanding EUR 1 billion hybrid layer. This net debt figure excludes that EUR 1 billion of hybrids that are still outstanding. In terms of liquidity, the company closed the year with a very strong liquidity of EUR 9.5 billion. It allows us to comfortably position ourselves in the face of this significant market volatility. We have not had to face any cash collaterals. We've been operating in OTC markets, and as a result of that, the companies in a very comfortable position.

This liquidity we expect to remain very strong for the year 2023. If we move on to slide 18, this is just a reminder of the distribution of our dividends. We've been paying EUR 0.30, EUR 0.40, and the last remaining dividend that will be paid after the AGM in April 2023 will be EUR 0.50, bringing the total to EUR 1.2 with an implied payout of 70%. Obviously, this dividend is subject to the AGM approval. In terms of ESG metrics, the company has also continued to improve and progress positively. If we look, for example, at its emission-free installed capacity and its reduction in CO2 emissions, company's progressing well.

If you think about, for example, emissions in 2022, they were actually 24% below those levels in 2017, including all scopes, that's 1, 2, and 3. That compares very favorably to a 16% reduction in year 2020. The company also aims to restore its natural capital and biodiversity through multiple initiatives related to the prevention, reduction, and compensation of its impacts. As an example, during the year 2022, a total of 345 biodiversity initiatives were implemented. It's a significant amount. Furthermore, the group also continues to progress in gender parity, which is something very important for us, and women representation, gradually increasing the percentage of women in management positions, which now stands at 34%. Likewise, the percentage of suppliers that have been ESG audited has reached 83% in 2022, a significant leap relative to 2020, where the amount only stood at 7%. With that, I hand over to Jon to go over the specific businesses.

Jon Ganuza
Head of Financial Planning and Control, Naturgy

Thanks, Steven. Good morning, everyone. We're starting with Networks Spain on page 21. Networks Spain contributed 31% of the group's EBITDA in 2022. Networks were negatively affected by the negative remuneration adjustments, part of the regulatory period 21-26, and lower demand across the board. In the residential segment, due to milder temperatures, but particularly combined heat and power due to the impact of regulatory measures in the electricity market. Electricity networks, for its part, showed stable performance with growth in investment, partly offset by the regulatory impacts. The comparison versus last year is nevertheless affected by the restructuring plans that took place last year. Moving forward to Networks LatAm on page 22. Networks LatAm contributed 19% of the group's EBITDA in 2022, with Brazil and Mexico the largest contributors in the period.

In Chile gas, higher sales and margins of supply were not enough to compensate the negative regulatory review and one-off provisions that were duly explained in the first full half presentation. In Brazil, tariff updates and positive FX were partly offset by substantial lower gas demand, particularly in power generation, due to abundant hydro resource in the year. Gas sales were indeed 51% lower than in 2021. As a reminder, in Brazil, tariffs for the period 2018, 2022 are still under discussion. In Mexico and Panama, FX impact was the main growth driver. On the flip side of the FX evolution, Argentina's higher demand and tariff updates were partially offset by continued FX depreciation. Turning on to the liberalized business on page 23. Energy management activities contributed 34% of the group's EBITDA in 2022.

Wholesale gas, including markets and procurement and international LNG activities, benefited from higher selling prices, mainly on the international markets. In international LNG, the results have been negatively affected as the company has reassessed the effectiveness of our hedges due to the decoupling of the TTF index with the physical sales price.

This reassessment is mainly due to the hedges for 2023 and is a non-cash item. Spain thermal generation experienced an increase in CCGTs production by 55% to cover the shortfall in renewables and did help to avoid brownouts, particularly in Q4. As highlighted earlier in the presentation, CCGTs played an essential role to guarantee security of supply in Spain. LatAm thermal generation was mainly supported by positive FX impact. Excluding FX, the contribution was lower due to planned outage and maintenance.

Let's now turn to our renewables activities on page 24 of the presentation. Renewables activities contributed 7% of the group's EBITDA in 2022. Spain benefited from higher prices and new capacity coming into operation, which was offset by lower hydro production. The comparison versus last year is affected due to the fact that last year we registered the recovery of the hydro canon.

In Australia, higher production and positive evolution of the mark-to-market valuation of existing PPAs were offset by higher OpEx. In LatAm, higher margins, except in Chile, and positive FX impact contributed to the positive performance. Renewables growth was mainly driven by higher prices despite the lower hydro and one-off effects affecting the comparison with Spain. Supply on page 25. Supply activities contributed 11% of the group's EBITDA in 2022.

Results reflect the recovery from an anomalous 2020 and 2021, where some contracts did not reflect the substantial increase in gas procurement cost or pool prices seen in the period. Gas supply improved its margins and competitiveness from 2021 lows, especially in the industrial segment, following the withdrawal of some gas contracts and associated penalties in 2021. Our supply margins also recovered from 2021 lows due to a long sell position in a market where prices were increasing. This impacted profitability in 2021. Our sales remained relatively stable vis-à-vis last year. In essence, supply has experienced a recovery from anomalous 2020 and 2021 levels. This is it for the review of the various activities in the year, and back to you. Back to you, Sumer. Thank you very much, Jon.

I think that it's time for a quick summary of what it has been said before starting the Q&A part of this session. As a summary of 2022, I would like to highlight four important ideas. Number one is uncertainty warranted stable gross margins. That's thanks to proactivity in management approaches. Number two is role in warrantying security of supply for the country, for our clients, and in particular, also at the time that some initiatives were put in place. Number three is progressing on ESG matters as a demonstration of commitment of the transformation of the company also in this field. Finally, results are following the trend that the market knew since third quarter, and in particular, with a prudent capital allocation that warranties a safe balance sheet for next coming years. In particular, if we move to the outlook of 2023.

Francisco Reynés
Executive Chairman and CEO, Naturgy

If we talk about businesses, I would like to differentiate what our business on networks may expect compared to our business around markets. Networks. In Spain, we see stable gas volumes continuing during the year 2023, with growth in electricity distribution thanks to the adaptation to the new diversified sources of power generation because of the introduction of more and more renewables.

In LatAm, adaptation of tariffs because of inflation, including growth in demand after some years with stable demand in that site. In markets, we will continue in a uncertainty scenario. This uncertain scenario will drive volatility in commodity prices and will force a need and a focus of management and paying attention in managing as it has been done during the year 2022. In particular, in the wholesale gas, two important things.

Number one is we will need to dedicate time during 2023 to adapt to market conditions our pipeline contracts of gas. Second, we have now more flexibility after Jon's explanation on LNG market performance in 2022 to capture opportunities that are arising and may arise. Renewables, important to say that we will increase our investments, and in particular, I want to highlight that all these additional developments are made with our own cash and the CapEx is purely organic. Finally, in supply, after a very important and anomalous 2020 and 2021, we have improved our profitability that may will be sustained during the year 2023. Instead of watching the 2023 by businesses, and we do it by nature of financial matters, CapEx will increase at least 50%.

Net debt will be affected by a very important strong cash flow generation and we can continue committing on investment grade in rating. Dividend would maintain the commitment on the strategic plan as a floor of 2022 similar level, 2023 at a similar level of 2022. Finally, considering the volatility of the scenario, we think that is more prudent and is allowed by regulators' norms that from now on, our financial reporting will be done on a semiannual basis in order to avoid the volatility of the quarters. We don't want with this measure to incorporate more uncertainties or strange explanations of what is going on during the quarters.

Finally, we can commit that we see a 2023 year again, very volatile, in terms of our EBITDA, we see that we can guide the market with at least a 2023 level, with a level that has already been achieved in the year 2022. This is all from our side. Now I hand it over to Abel, who is going to manage the part of the session related to Q&A. Thank you, Abel.

Abel Arbat
Capital Markets Director, Naturgy

Thank you, Francisco. Just a reminder to all the analysts and investors that any questions you may have, you'll need to be submitting those through the webcast. Okay? Let's just start with the general questions received so far, related more to the big picture. There are a number of questions relating to Project Gemini, and whether we could provide an update on its status and also, what would need to happen for the split to be resumed or the split to go ahead.

Francisco Reynés
Executive Chairman and CEO, Naturgy

Well, in general, I can confirm three things. Number one is the idea of Gemini is still valid. Is a fact, as you have heard our explanations of 2022, that we are living within a world of two different realities. The reality of infrastructure business around networks of electricity and gas, that both of them are subject to market conditions, which are completely different than the world of the markets business, which is volatile, subject to commodity prices, evolution, et cetera. From a strategic point of view, it's a project that is alive. From a practical point of view, it's a project that needs to be subject to the conditions under which it may go ahead.

As I said before, over 20 different regulations has been established within the year 2022 that require a very important amount of study of implications. Finally,

The market itself, we have never lived such a volatility in the market as we lived during the year 2022. It's part of management's responsibility to choose the right time for the implementation of the strategy.

Abel Arbat
Capital Markets Director, Naturgy

Thank you, Francisco. There's a question on the company's decision with regards to financial reporting, as to what are the main reasons to diminish to semi-annual reporting basis.

Steven Fernández
Head of Investor Relations, Naturgy

Thank you, Abel. I think the chairman pointed out some of the key reasons. The first message is this is a long-term business. I think guiding the performance of the long-term business with short-term reporting or short-term view doesn't necessarily provide an accurate assessment of how business is evolving. Secondly, we've seen during the course of 2022, the amount of volatility that we've experienced in the markets. The reality is that this volatility has led to significant changes and swings in the quarters. Again, we think that providing the figures on a quarterly basis does not provide an adequate picture of how the company is progressing.

As a result of that, we decided to make use of our ability to publish on a semi-annual basis. It doesn't mean that we'll be out of the market during the quarters. Some people are asking whether or not we'll be providing trading updates. That's the idea for Q1 and Q3. Then full financial disclosure on each one full year.

Abel Arbat
Capital Markets Director, Naturgy

Thank you, Steven. Let's now move to a few questions on the guidance we've provided. There are a few questions with regards to guidance for 2023. 1 is whether or not this guidance includes the 1.2% tax on liberalized revenues. Also related to that, whether or not we are including as part of our estimates that this 1.2 tax could coexist with any of the European taxations on windfall profits. Furthermore, there are also questions as to how the guidance would compare to a more normalized, or recurrent, or ordinary 2022. If we can provide any detail on that regard.

Jon Ganuza
Head of Financial Planning and Control, Naturgy

Thank you, Abel. Regarding the first question, yes, it does include the 1.2%. Second one, no, we do not see any other taxation measures by the European Commission because our understanding is that the 1.2% is the Spanish translation of the EU measures. Regarding the guidance for 2023, I think that right now, talking about a normalized year is something that it doesn't make a lot of sense because as the chairman has said, we've seen and we think that 2023 is going to be highly volatile. I think that the guidance is the best estimate that we can give of the results that we will have in 2023.

Abel Arbat
Capital Markets Director, Naturgy

Thank you. Thank you, Jon. Moving on to some of the questions in the markets business, and in particular to the markets and procurement and international energy business lines. Could we clarify a little bit why is the negative performance in international energy, and how does this relate to the more strong performance in markets and procurement, given the understanding that in international energy, some of the contracts are or the majority of the contracts are procurement in Sonatrach and sold into internationally in Europe or abroad?

Jon Ganuza
Head of Financial Planning and Control, Naturgy

Basically, I think that both businesses have benefited from international sales, both of them. I think that when we look at the positive results in market of, and procurement, we are seeing benefits from international sales. International energy has also benefited from international sales. The fact is that international LNG is the only business that has TTF-related hedges, and those are the ones where we have to assess the effectiveness of those hedges, and therefore, that only affects the international LNG business, and it does not affect the markets and procurements business.

Abel Arbat
Capital Markets Director, Naturgy

Thank you, Jon. Continuing on, our liberalized activities and in particular to energy management, there are a few questions on Spanish thermal generation on what is driving the significant improvement in performance in Spanish thermal generation.

Jon Ganuza
Head of Financial Planning and Control, Naturgy

I would say that there are two main factors that are driving the increase. On the one hand is the fact that there's production has increased by 50%, so I think that that's, that explains a substantial part of this. Also in the current scenario, spark spreads have been higher than they were the last years.

Abel Arbat
Capital Markets Director, Naturgy

Thank you, Jon. A number of questions as well, in renewables related to the amount of new capacity that we are expecting for year 2023, considering the guidance provided of a 50% increase in CapEx deployed into renewables.

Jon Ganuza
Head of Financial Planning and Control, Naturgy

I don't think that we are giving any specific guidance regarding installed capacity. We've just given a guidance regarding the overall CapEx, but that should give an idea of what the installed capacity growth could be in the next year.

Abel Arbat
Capital Markets Director, Naturgy

Okay, thank you. Now, a few questions as well on the evolution of our supply business and its recovery from 2021. What have been the main drivers of this recovery, both in terms of gas and electricity supply in Spain?

Jon Ganuza
Head of Financial Planning and Control, Naturgy

No, I think that the recovery is not so much about talking what happened in 2022. It's a lot more about talking what happened in 2021. 2021 and 2020, but let's focus on 2021. Was a really bad year for the supply business. Let's make a bit of history. 2020, we had the lowest gas prices in history. TTF was 9 EUR megawatt hour. 2021 gas prices were 100 EUR megawatt hour.

What we've seen is two years of rally, and in those two years of the commodities rallies, both for gas and electricity prices, the thing is, if you had a long position, as we had for both in electricity, long sell position, as we had both in electricity and also we had these fixed gas contracts in gas, that meant that in 2021, the results that we had in supply were really negative. I think that it's not so much that 2022 has been a really good year, it was a matter of that 2021 was a really bad year.

Abel Arbat
Capital Markets Director, Naturgy

Thank you, Jon. Also a few questions on cash flow and how it relates to EBITDA, given the significant deleveraging that has been accomplished by the company during the year. In particular, there are a few questions on the positive cash flow that is stemming below EBITDA and how this relates to, you know, the hedging that we've discussed. If we could clarify that would be great.

Jon Ganuza
Head of Financial Planning and Control, Naturgy

Yeah. The main driver is that the reassessment that we've done of the effectiveness of our hedges, as we said during the presentation, is a non-cash item, and therefore that's something that comes forward in our cash flow statement. I think that if you want more figures and more specifics, I would address people to the annual report that would be published by the end of this week. I think that there they will have more comprehensive information.

Abel Arbat
Capital Markets Director, Naturgy

Thank you, Jon. Now moving on to questions relating to our financial structure and capital allocation. There are a few questions with regards to our expected cost of debt moving forward. How will that compare to the current year? Also if we can provide a view or some guidance on what's our intention with the outstanding hybrid layer.

Steven Fernández
Head of Investor Relations, Naturgy

Thank you, Abel. In terms of the average cost of debt for year 2023, it doesn't escape anyone that the environment has changed. Although we have a sizable portion of our debt in fixed rates, there is a portion of it that will be affected by increasing interest rates, namely in Latin America. The overall estimate for 2023 is an increase of around 60 basis points in terms of the average cost of debt. In terms of the hybrids, as I mentioned before, we have lost the equity components of those hybrids as a result of not replacing the November call. Now we have two hybrid instruments outstanding, EUR 500 million each.

For all in-accounts and purposes or means and purposes, we consider those internally as basically senior debt. Unlike with every other senior debt instruments in our portfolio, you know, we do look at the market on an opportunistic basis. We are in no need to refinance or do anything at this stage. Whatever we decide to do with those instruments or any other instruments will be simply a subject of, you know, how we read the market, how it evolves, whether or not there is opportunities that present themselves. We're very fortunate to have significant liquidity. We had a bond mature in February of this year, we've amortized that without that was a senior bond, without replacing it either. That is a testament of the company's financial muscle and our flexibility.

Abel Arbat
Capital Markets Director, Naturgy

Thank you very much, Steven. I think that the remainder of the questions, which are of more a quantitative nature, we, you know, we can address those on a one-by-one basis from the capital markets team. That would conclude all the Q&As received for this presentation. We thank you very much for joining our results presentation, and we remind you that the capital markets team is fully available to address any other concerns or questions you may have. Thanks very much.

Jon Ganuza
Head of Financial Planning and Control, Naturgy

Thank you, Abel.

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