Hello, and welcome to the Repsol Q2 2024 results conference call. Today's conference will be conducted by Mr. Josu Jon Imaz, CEO, and a brief introduction will be given by Mr. Ramón Álvarez-Pedrosa, Head of Investor Relations. I would now like to hand the call over to Mr. Álvarez-Pedrosa. Sir, you may begin.
Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, and welcome to Repsol's Q2 2024 results conference call. Today, we will be hosted by Josu Jon Imaz, our Chief Executive Officer, with other members of the executive team joining us as well. Before we start, let me draw your attention to our disclaimer. During this presentation, we may make forward-looking statements based on estimates. Actual results may differ materially depending on a number of factors, as indicated in the disclaimer. I will now hand the conference over to Josu Jon.
Thank you very much, Ramón, and thank you everyone for joining us today. To begin with, I'll take you through the main messages of this quarter before moving to a review of our business performance and results. Following the presentation, we will be available to answer your questions. The first half of the year has allowed Repsol to move forward in the direction defined in our recent strategic update.
We are addressing the challenges of the energy transition from a position of strength, leveraging on our, on our advantages and on our value creation track record in low carbon. We keep on developing the new business platforms that will allow us to generate more value with less emissions, advancing in our multi-energy proposition, and diversifying our energy mix. Last quarter, Repsol delivered another set of resilient results, supported by a solid operational performance across divisions.
The commodity scenario was characterized by a less favorable refining environment, a stronger oil price, and the ongoing weakness of natural gas. Q2 adjusted income reached EUR 859 million, 4% above the same period in 2023, and 32% below the Q1 of the year. Cash flow from operations was EUR 0.9 billion, 32% lower quarter-over-quarter, and 45% below last year.
Cash generation was negatively impacted by EUR 1 billion payment related to the acquisition of the remaining 49% stake in our UK JV and the settlement with Sinopec, as agreed last year. Excluding this effect, the operating cash flow was EUR 216 million higher than in the same period of 2023. Net CapEx amounted to EUR 1.5 billion in the quarter.
The contribution of divestments and asset rotation was 0.3 billion EUR, for a total of 0.4 billion EUR delivered in the first half of 2024. Our disciplined CapEx policy remains aligned with investment plan and our commitment with maintaining a strong financial position. Our businesses are carrying on an intense portfolio activity with the objective of optimizing our capital and financing new investments.
Net debt stood at 4.6 billion EUR by the end of the quarter, a 0.7 billion EUR increase compared to March, mostly related to the purchase of treasury shares and new leases. In July, the company distributed the second dividend of the year for a total of 0.9 EUR per share in 2024, approximately a 30% increase over 2023.
In addition, this month, we have completed the buyback program launched in March, executing the 40 million share capital reduction committed in our February presentation. These two concepts add up to EUR 1.7 billion in total shareholder remuneration delivered as of July. Moreover, aligned with our strategic cash flow distribution objective, we have announced today a new 20 million share buyback program and its corresponding share capital reduction to be executed in the second half of the year.
This will bring the total number of shares canceled in 2024 to 60 million, equivalent to 5% of our share capital at the beginning of the year. The number of shares outstanding by year-end will reach 1,157 million.
Considering the 3% increase of the funds dedicated to cash dividends in 2025, for a total of EUR 1,128 million as committed in our strategy, the lower number of outstanding shares implies a dividend of a minimum of 0.975 EUR per share next year.
This is equivalent to more than an 8% DPS increase compared to 2024, with further buybacks, completing our cash flow from operation distribution range for 2025. Looking now briefly at the macroeconomic scenario for the Q2, the oil price continued to be affected by geopolitical instability and the production policy of OPEC countries. Brent oil averaged $85 in the quarter, up by 2% quarter-over-quarter, and 9% above Q2 last year.
In gas, the Henry Hub averaged $1.9 per million BTU, 17% below previous quarter, and 10% lower than a year ago, driven by high inventory levels and technical restrictions still limiting U.S. exports. Our refining margin indicator averaged $6.3 per barrel, in line with the same period a year ago, but 45% lower quarter-over-quarter.
Compared to the Q1, the sharp decrease in diesel and kerosene differentials more than offset the stronger gasoline spreads. The euro-dollar exchange rate averaged 1.08, in line with the previous quarter and with the same period in 2023.
Moving on now to the performance of our businesses, the upstream division reported unadjusted income of EUR 427 million, a 4% increase over the same quarter last year, and 3% below the Q1 in 2024. Year over year, the negative impact of lower gas prices was more than offset by higher oil realization and higher volume sold.
Our business remains focused on the efficient delivery of the project pipeline, actively managing our assets to capture emerging opportunities in the portfolio. Production averaged 589,000 net barrels per day, in line with the previous quarter and year over year.
Compared to the same period in 2023, the higher volumes in Marcellus, UK, and Venezuela were compensated by a lower output in Eagle Ford and Norway, and the divestment of our Canadian assets, effective since the Q4 of last year. The hedging policy implemented for our North American gas production is helping us to protecting profitability in this depressed natural gas price scenario.
Around 20% of our volumes in 2024 have been covered with a floor of $3 per million BTU. Roughly speaking, this structure allow us to fully compensate in the Q2 results, the decrease in the Henry Hub compared to the same period in 2023.
During the quarter, we operated one rig in Eagle Ford and one rig in Marcellus, and at the end of June, the rig in Marcellus was effectively released with the aim of protecting value in this gas price environment. In Eagle Ford, we agreed the divestment of our stake in the southwestern portion of our acreage as part of ongoing optimization of our position in this asset.
Development activity in our three main projects continue progressing according to plan. Pikka in Alaska and León-Castile in the Gulf of Mexico are expected to start production in the next 12-18 months, contributing with a combined 50,000 oil barrels per day of profitable higher cash flow from operations per barrel production. In Brazil, the Campos 33 project progresses on their plan in cost and time.
The development reached a significant milestone with the construction of the FPSO hull first giga block. In Venezuela, Repsol and PDVSA agreed to incorporate two new fields, Tomoporo and La Ceiba, to the Petroquiriquire JV. These two fields currently produce 20,000 barrels of oil per day in gross terms, and, let me say that this, agreement is going to help us to recover past commercial debt, increase production, and improve the cash profile of the JV to repay the loan granted by Repsol, enhancing also the availability of crudes to our refining system.
Lastly, in the exploration front, after a quarter, and the operator of Block 9 in offshore Mexico announced positive results in the Yopaat Well. The preliminary estimation is of around 300-400 million barrels of oil in place, and Repsol holds a 50% stake.
Also, in Mexico, the development of Block 29 is currently in the conceptualization phase, and this new discovery increases the potential to consolidate this basin, along with our growth plans in the region. Moving now to Industrial. This division continue maximizing value in the current environment, strengthening the competitiveness of the conventional business, while scaling up the newer, lower carbon platforms that will drive its transformation.
The adjusted income amounted to EUR 288 million, 16% below a year ago. The higher results in refining, chemicals, and trading were more than compensated by a lower result in wholesale and gas trading, and a lower contribution from our business in Peru. In this case, we have to take into account the program turnaround in the refinery, in this Peruvian refinery this quarter.
The refining business benefited by high utilization rates, partially offset by a more challenging margin scenario compared to previous months with some seasonality effects that resemble what we had in the Q2 last year. If you compare, the margin is more or less the same we had one year ago.
The average margin indicator stood at $6.3 per barrel, declining compared to the Q1, mostly due to narrower middle distillate differentials, and year-over-year, the indicator was in line with the same period in 2023. Margins have not yet shown the seasonal strength we were expecting at this point, mainly due to the elevated stocks in the Atlantic Basin.
But, I mean, we are convinced that, going forward, and thanks to a better demand for diesel, and, and improved economic scenario, in Europe, we are going to see this, this recovery. The margin premium was $0.3 over the indicator, materially below the previous quarter and in line with the Q2 last year. Let me say that this premium was negatively impacted by the planned turnarounds in Puertollano and Bilbao, and, a less favorable market environment.
We have almost finished the turnaround campaign this year. The average utilization of distillation capacity was 87%, while the run rate of the conversion units reached 96%. In both cases, above the levels achieved in Q2 2023. Maintenance activity included the multi-annual turnaround of Puertollano.
It started in the Q1 and completed in May, and the shutdown of the FCC unit in Bilbao finalized in July. As I said before, we have already completed all the major planned maintenance for the year, and that means that we increase our plant's availability in the second half.
Last quarter, our refineries received more than 5 million barrels of crude from Venezuela, which compares with the 2 million barrels processed in the Q1 of the year. And this increased supply, together with the diversification of our crude diet, should allow us to maintain the current share of heavy crude oil in our feedstock mix for the rest of the year. Sorry.
In the chemical business, Repsol's petrochemical margin indicator averaged EUR 269 per tonne, 31% over the previous quarter and 6% lower than in the same period a year ago. The EBITDA contribution was EUR 23 million, which compares to losses of 80-- sorry, 48 million euros in the Q2 of 2023.
Despite this relatively improved picture, thanks to better demand and margins, I mean, market is improving, it's true, but it's still being affected by the fragile situation in Western Europe, where we are seeing, let me say, some recovery in the market, mainly in the polyolefins market. But there is still a slowdown of Chinese economy that is impacting this recovery.
Looking forward, the Sines expansion project, which is expected to begin operations in the last quarter of 2025, should contribute an EBITDA of more than EUR 100 million, even in this challenging scenario. Looking now at the progress in our transformation projects. Last quarter has been the first one with the Cartagena Advanced Biofuels plant producing at full capacity, thanks to the flexibility of its design, production alternated HVO and SAF, depending on market conditions.
The project is expected to contribute around EUR 50 million of EBITDA this year at this low margins, because, you know, renewable diesel margins have experienced a decline in last months, mainly due to the mandate cuts applied in Sweden, and the oversupplied market in the US and the influx of Asian products into Europe.
We see this situation as transitory, anticipating a progressive recovery as we move forward to 2025, with the implementation of the new blending mandates in both sides of the Atlantic. The demand is there, and we will keep working to build a leading renewable fuels platform in Iberia. The transformation of our traditional sites into highly integrated renewable biorefineries and circular hubs is the most competitive, fastest, and affordable way to reduce the carbon footprint of our operations.
The project to retrofit an existing gasoil hydrotreater to produce HVO in Puertollano progresses as planned, with first production expected in 2025, at the end of 2025, the beginning of 2026. Also, the strategic agreement with Bunge, announced in March, will allow us to cover around 80%-85% of our total biofuel feedstock needs by the end of this decade.
Finally, renewable hydrogen. In July, our electrolyzer projects in Bilbao and Cartagena refineries receive public European funds of EUR 315 million. Continuing now with the customer division, our strategy remains centered on maximizing the competitiveness of our fuel business, consolidating our multi-energy offering, and growing the scale and returns of retail power and gas.
The adjusted income was EUR 158 million, in line with the Q1, and 7% higher year-over-year. Compared to the same period in 2023, the higher contribution of retail power and gas, aviation, lubricants, and mobility was partially compensated by lower results in LPG. Mobility sales in service stations and wholesales were affected by higher imports and the alleged fraud practices of some operators aiming to increase their market share in Spain.
The growth of the Waylet app continues to drive the expansion of our multi-energy offering. And let me underline this important fact, because I think that—I mean, we have reached more than 8.6 million total digital clients by the end of June. So digital clients using our apps to buy energy or some other products.
Currently, Repsol has around 350 service stations in Spain and Portugal, offering 100% renewable fuel solutions, with the goal of reaching more than 600 this year, and 1,500 in 2025. This way, we are accelerating our plans to achieve, as we expressed and mentioned when we presented the strategic update in February, we talked about 1,900 service stations in 2027.
So we are anticipating this target, and we are going to reach the figure of 1,500 in 2025. And I mean, that's a figure equivalent to almost 45% of our total network. Finally, in retail power and gas, Repsol's client base reached 2.4 million customers in June, roughly an 8% increase compared to December. So we are going on growing in this business, in this case, in an organic way.
And the contribution of this business remains very solid, having generated an EBITDA of around EUR 90 million in the first half of 2024. Finally, in the low carbon generation division, we've progressed in the development of our extensive quality project pipeline, mainly in Spain and the U.S.
The adjusted income was EUR 1 million, positive in the quarter, negatively impacted by the decline in power prices in Spain, and a significant lower contribution of combined cycles. This result compares to losses of minus EUR 6 million in the Q1 of the year, and a positive result of EUR 12 million a year ago.
The average pool price in Spain was EUR 33 per megawatt hour, its minimum level since 2020, and that was driven by record level contributions of renewable sources to the Spanish generation mix. Mainly, I mean, it was a very rainy half of the year, and the impact of the hydro production was, let me say, exceptional and very, very material, this half of the year, impacting on prices.
Now, we have seen a recovery of these prices in July. Thanks to our integrated position in Spain, the low prices impacting the generation business are opening, of course, an opportunity in retail, as we discussed before. We moved with our disciplined growth plans in renewables, working in parallel on our first asset rotation in the U.S.
Our installed operational renewable capacity reached 3.1 gigawatts in June, and we are developing the new pipeline platforms with the goal of reaching 4 gigawatts of global capacity by year-end. Having completed the Frye project last quarter, we are now looking to the startup of Outpost later this year, which is expected to add the first 400 megawatts of production in the Q4, and an additional 229 megawatts in the Q1 of 2025.
In July, we have announced the disposal of the residential rooftop solar business in France, that was, remember, acquired, with the Asterion transaction. And finally, last week, we signed a collaboration agreement with EDF Renewables for offshore wind opportunities in Iberia, expanding our technological roots. Moving now briefly to the financial results.
In this slide, you will find a summary of the figures that we have discussed when reviewing the performance of our businesses, and for further details, I encourage you to refer to the complete set of documents that were released this morning. Moving now to our updated outlook for the year. Starting with refining, our margin indicator has averaged around $8.5 a barrel year to date.
Considering the current Brent price and product spreads, we anticipate an average indicator of $8 in 2024, in line with our initial guidance, and a CCS margin premium of around $1.7 for the whole year over the indicator. Upstream production is expected to remain in the 570,000-600,000 barrels per day range, as indicated earlier this year.
Cash flow from operation is now expected to be in the lower end of our EUR 6.5 billion-EUR 7 billion range for 2024, mainly negatively affected by the lower gas prices. This cash flow from operation figure doesn't factor, of course, the EUR 1 billion payment related to Sinopec litigation. Net CapEx after disposals and asset rotation is also unchanged at EUR 5 billion for the whole year.
Finally, considering the 60 million shares to be redeemed in 2024, and the estimated cash flow from operation figure mentioned before, I mean, the lower range of this EUR 6.5-7 billion, a total shareholder remuneration in 2024, under these assumptions of course, will be equivalent to around 31% of the operating cash generation.
To conclude, we have completed the first half of the year with another remarkable performance, positioned to deliver on our objectives for 2024 in terms of strategic delivery, cash generation, and shareholder remuneration. The second half of the year will pivot again around advancing our strategy and delivering value. We have made good progress in some of the upcoming FIDs, as our teams remain focused on maturing the projects that will drive cash flow growth and profitability in coming years.
We remain committed to our decarbonization route, leveraging the low carbon solutions available to us, required to decarbonize the largest portion of today's European economy that is not electrified. We are confident that the regulatory environment will evolve in a positive direction to guarantee security of supply and the investment needed in our sector. With this, I will turn it over to Ramón as we move on to the Q&A session. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Josu Jon. Now, as usual, before moving onto this Q&A session, I just would like the operator to remind us of the process to ask a question. Please, operator, go ahead.
Thank you. To ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one and one again.
Thank you, operator. Now we move to the Q&A session. Our first question comes from Biraj Borkhataria at RBC. Biraj, go ahead.
Hi, thanks for taking my questions. The first one is just going back to the financial framework. So at the time of the CMD, Josu Jon, you were clear around pointing us to the net CapEx guidance and suggested that, you know, if the macro was to weaken, you'd slow down the growth spending. So first half 2024 growth spending is at the run rate of just above EUR 6 billion.
Could you just update us on the divestment plans for the year, both in upstream and low carbon and how we should think about that? I'm just trying to understand what goes behind the decision to go to the low end of the payout ratio range.
Related to that, you know, acquisitions like ConnectGen, is that included in the net CapEx guidance, or is that on top of that? And then the second question is just related to the US gas hedging. You mentioned the 2024 hedges. Could you just remind us where you are for 2025 and 2026, and what's currently in place? Thank you.
Thank you for your questions, Biraj. Going on to your first question, I mean, I remain confident about the net CapEx guidance of EUR 5 billion for the whole year. And as you mentioned, this figure also includes the ConnectGen acquisition. I mean, that could be probably is, let me say, curious or surprising, seeing the evolution over the first half of the year.
But, I mean, let me remind that, I mean, we are going to have, in general terms, over the strategic plan period, some kind of gap or decline between the time of gross CapEx that is developed month after month and the rotation and the divestment and disposals process.
But we are expecting additional divestment, farm-downs, in upstream and two asset rotation processes over this half in the renewable business either in Spain and also in the first, let me say, round or basket of our US assets. So, EUR 5 billion is the net CapEx guidance we have for the whole year, including the ConnectGen investment that as you know, it was, I mean, announced and almost closed at the end of 2023, but it was because the regulation, permits and so on, closed in the Q1 of this year, so this figure is included. If we go to the whole gas hedge strategy for the next year, in 2025-...
We have almost a 55-60% of the total gas American production, close with a collar, put call, with a put at $3 million BTU, and the call at $6.1 million BTU. So that means that we are guaranteeing this, let me say, a floor of $3, and we have all the upside to $6.1 million BTUs. The figure I have here, more or less, approaches 57% of the total production of the year. When we go to the 2026 year, on the average of the strike we have, is a 50% of the total production.
I mean, there are two different kind of position, but as average, I could summarize saying that we have a put, so a floor of $3.20 per million BTUs, and a call, so we are going to capture all this price till $5.1 per million BTUs. That is the strategy. Well, the strategy, that is not the strategy. That is what we have executed for 2025 and 2026 at the moment. Of course, we still have open strategies to increase this position in case of seeing market opportunities. Thank you, Biraj.
Thank you, Biraj. Our next question comes from Sasikanth Chilukuru at Morgan Stanley. Please, Sasi, go ahead.
Hi, thanks for taking my questions. I had two, please. The first was on the buyback and the announcement of the 20 million shares buyback in the second half, and the 60 million shares retirement overall for 2024. I was just wondering if you could provide some color on how we should be thinking about this 20 million buyback.
Is this 20 million share buyback for the half year reflect the expected cash generation under current market conditions, or is the 60 millions per share for the full year more reflective of the cash generation under the current market conditions?
Slightly related to that, I was just wondering how you came around to that 31% CFFO versus maybe the top end of your guidance range, 35%, if you could provide some color on that. The second one was more of a clarification on your 2024 cash flow guidance. Was just wondering if that includes the EUR 1 billion cash out for the acquisition of RR UK, if that is included or whether or not?
Thank you, Sasi. I mean, first of all, we are going to launch the buyback program in coming weeks, and that is going to be executed over the second half of the year. I mean, we will announce the development of this plan. Let me be crystal clear about why 20 million shares now, and why we are taking this 31% of cash flow from operations as a guidance this year in terms of distribution for our shareholders.
I mean, first of all, today, our best approach and our best guidance is that because mainly the gas prices, not only have we have also gas prices in Europe and so on, comparing with the assumptions we had at the beginning of the year, we are going to be in the low range of this guidance of EUR 6.5-7 billion. Of course, when I'm talking about 6.5-7, just for clarifying, in real terms, it's 5.5-6.5, plus the EUR 1 billion applied to the Sinopec transaction.
I mean, we have not taken into account, let me say, this EUR 1 billion in order to define what is going to be the guidance for the shareholder distribution, as we said, and we committed at the beginning of this year. So if we take this EUR 6.5 billion, we think that from the guidance we expressed when, and we mentioned when we presented our strategic plan, that remember, was from 25%-35%, and for, let me say, a good year, we said that we will be something in between 30%-35%. So, you know, we prefer to be prudent, Sasi, seeing that...
I mean, we have still some challenges in the year related to gas price and so on, and that would be, let me say, the commitment we are taking for the second half. I'm not going to hide that, in case of seeing in October that we are we have a better cash flow from operation than expected, a better business
environment, and so on, of course, we will apply, let me say, this rule of taking a figure something in between 30%-35%, and we could have room for a potential additional buyback announcement in October. But I prefer to be clear and transparent. Today, we are not there. Our best view about the guidance for the year is these assumptions of 6.57 in the low range.
In case of seeing a better environment, a better cash flow from operation generation, of course, we will follow this guidance, because that is going to be, let me say, the driver we are going to have over these 4 years to define the shareholders' distribution. For that reason, I said that for next year, the cash dividend is going to be a minimum of EUR 0.975 per share.
A minimum, because that is what we have today, and we could commit today. In case of seeing a better environment, of course, we are open to change or to add an additional program, but today we are there. Thank you, Sasi.
Sorry, Sasi, yeah, I think that I answer in some way. I mean, the guidance of cash flow from operations, when I'm talking from EUR 6.5 billion to 7 billion, we are not including the EUR 1 billion of Sinopec. That means that if we include the reduction of cash flow from operations coming from this announced transaction, the cash flow from operations will be EUR 5.5 billion to 6 billion, in the low range. Thank you, Sasi.
Thank you, Sasi. Next question comes from Michele Della Vigna at Goldman Sachs. Please, Michele, go ahead.
Thank you again for your time. Two questions, if I may. The first one relates to your renewable plans in Spain. It looks like it's been a very tough environment in the Q2. You've got great opportunities in the US, where actually the price, but also the power growth is more attractive. I was wondering if you are perhaps thinking of shifting some of your investments towards the US, or if you think that Q2 was a bit of an aberration in Spain, and that profitability will recover in the coming quarters?
And then secondly, I was wondering how your discussions with the government are going on the windfall tax. We've seen some more hopeful signs from the government, but I was wondering how that is progressing. Thank you, Josu Jon.
... Grazie mille, Michele. I mean, going to our renewable plans in Spain, I mean, first of all, let me say that we are quite comfortable about the rotation, asset rotation process in Spain, that is on track. I mean, we have advanced in a significant way in this process, so, I mean, I think that today, the probability of seeing a closing in the second half of the year is very high in Spain. Starting from the asset rotation environment. Going to renewable plans, I mean, I'm not going to... I mean, let me first of all, to comment some things.
I think what we have seen over the last quarter, or better said, over the first half of the year, I mean, it's not going to be the new, let me say, mainstream arena in Spain, in prices terms. Probably, probably not. In many parts of Spain, the rain in liters per square meter over this half has been significantly higher than the average over the last 30 years.
So that means that we have coped with a period very good in terms of rain level, but in terms of hydro production has increased in a significant way. Hydro production reducing the time when the combined cycles are entering the system, and the prices drop in a significant way.
I think I have in mind the figure of EUR 33 per MWh over the last quarter. But when we see next quarters, I mean, I don't have a crystal ball, but what we are seeing is something close to 75 or 90 euros per MWh. Even this July, we are figures that are closer to these prices I mentioned before, that what we saw in the Q2.
So first of all, going to this part of the business. Secondly, new plans. You know, we rely more on the wind than on solar for new future plans in Spain. The reason is, is technically clear. The solar production is very concentrated in the central hours of the day.
That means that the capture capacity of the wind production, that is more, distributed over the whole day, because that depends on geographies, wind regimes, and so on, has a better capacity to capture prices. So we rely, and we are very confident about new wind projects in Spain. And, in solar projects, we are going to be, let me say, more selective, more opportunistic.
In some cases, we are going to promote a hybridization, processes in, in current, wind, farms we have, because, I mean, the CapEx level, because we could use utilities, infrastructures, and so on, is lower. And we are also engaging a program to, build, solar plants in our industrial, sites, where, because the toll regime and so on, the, the, the, the returns are significantly higher. So, I take your point.
The market is getting tough in Europe, and particularly in Spain, but I mean, we are capturing in a good way the opportunities we have in the market. Despite even though the results from the PNL we have seen in the quarter, that is related to t
his price drop. But as I said before, we have and we are starting to build an integrated business, and in the PNL of the customer business we are seeing, let me say, the positive part of this price reduction in the pool in the wholesale pool of the power system. Are we shifting to US? Yes, but in a prudent way, as I mentioned when we present the strategic plan.
Now, we are in building the Outpost project that, as I mentioned in my speech, probably is going to add new 400 megawatts before the end of the year, in 2030, more or less, in the Q1 of last year. And probably we are going to take some FIDs over the year, and we are going to have in production 6 gigawatts before the end of 2025, all in all, in our whole system. And probably almost 2.2 gigawatts by the end of 2025 are going to come from the US. So we are quite comfortable about this shifting process to the US.
Going to our rotation process of assets in the U.S., we are already involved in this program, and probably we are going to see in coming months the first rotation of our assets in the U.S. And that is going to be significant in the U.S. in the use of capital, because, you know, we are looking for 50% of disposal of these assets, and that means that we are going to remain probably with a capital and equity at the end of the process, in every asset that is going to be close to 10-15% of the total capital we put as CapEx in this project.
So the effect in terms of reducing the net CapEx of the company, as I mentioned before in my answer to Sashi and Viras, is going to be significant. Going to the Windfall Taxes discussion. I mean, first of all, I mean, we keep going. Our position, you perfectly know, we think that it's unfair, it's illegal, and that is going to be reversed by the judiciary, either Spanish or European system in the future. But my perception... I mean, I don't want to remind all the reasons we have to oppose this Windfall Tax, because my perception is that we are experiencing a new reality.
You know, in November, the European Commission stated a report where they expressed in a very clear way that there is no reason now for these kind of taxes, that the priority has to be to guarantee the security of supply, the investment in the energy sector. Even over the last months, the Spanish Prime Minister said that this call in Spanish, gravamen, should be reanalyzed, that they'll have to rethink this gravamen to make investment possible in the energy sector.
Even over the last weeks, the Economy Minister, Mr. Cuerpo, said that when we talk about this windfall tax, we have to think, and we have to prioritize the need of investment in the energy sector, that has to be taken into account. So I could say more.
I could say that in the current Spanish political arena, I don't know, a minority could make this windfall tax or this gravamen permanent. But, I mean, my point is, we are—we have a new reality. I think that, I mean, probably we could anticipate that this potential gravamen is going to be over in coming months. And, of course, we are going to follow what could happen.
And, of course, we'll take our investment decision, depending on the framework we could see. But I think that today there are reasons to think that that is starting to be a part of the past. In the midst, we are working, of course, we are working the preparation of our, of our industrial sites to be prepared for a future scenario. Thank you.
Thank you, Michele. Next question comes from Lydia Rainforth at Barclays. Please, Lydia, go ahead.
Thank you, and good afternoon. Two questions, if I could. The first one, I'm sorry, just to come back to... 'cause I think I missed what you said. On the refining margins, where are we currently on those margins? And you talked earlier in the speech about you expect them to strengthen as we go into the second half of the year. I'm just wondering sort of what dynamics, if you can just talk us through a little bit on refining supply/demand.
And then a very different question, actually, please. On the upstream, we talked at the Capital Markets Day in Madrid back in February about a monetization event in 2026, and I'm just obviously, the upstream had very good results this quarter. I'm just thinking, where is your progress in the upstream compared to where you expected to be, both operationally and financially? Thank you.
Thank you, Lydia. I mean, going to refining margins, I mean, being very concrete, of course, I don't have a crystal ball, but today, our expectation for refining margins for the second half is, for our system, $7 a barrel. That when we are taking the guidance of $8 a barrel for the whole year, we are taking, I mean, the first part of the year plus these $7 per barrel.
What is behind? Behind is mainly we see the gasoline is strong, we see that the concerns we could have two months ago related to the scarcity of heavy oil and so on, I think that we are going to have better discounts as expected.
We see an increase of diesel demand in Europe that is going to be in the Q3 at the end of the year more significant. And we see potential events that could and that is... I mean, we could take a statistical approach, if you like, but that could be, of course, a winter that could be in some way a driver of this increase.
Secondly, the hurricane campaign in the Gulf of Mexico is always a factor. I mean, because what we have seen is that the demand and the supply are quite tight, and when the demand and the supply are tight, any event could reverse the current situation.
And there are some announcements last week, for instance, Alexander Novak, the Russian Deputy Prime Minister, announced that because the scarcity of gasoline they have in Russia, they are analyzing the reinstating a gasoline export ban in coming weeks. So there are factors related to what is happening in Central and Eastern Europe, the potential disruption incoming from the Middle East. So all in all, I think that we are quite comfortable with this approach for refining margins.
Taking into account that the turnaround campaign for Repsol this year is over, we are also comfortable with the $2 per barrel of premium for the second half of the year, that all in all, could have as a consequence, the $1.7 per barrel for the whole year I announced before. Going to your question about the upstream, I mean, in operational terms, let me say that the FIDs, all the relevant FIDs, all of them were taken. The project's development is progressing as expected. I mean, the León-Castile, Alaska, I mean, even the behavior of the wells is performing in a very good way.
In Alaska, we are comfortable about the project, probably even more positive that we were some months ago, taking into account the behavior of the wells. The free cash flow generation is in line with the strategic plan in the upstream, going to the financial expectations you mentioned.
And the production in 2025, at the end of 2024, is going to be mainly related or conditioned to potential inorganic transactions in this dynamic of portfolio improvement, because, you know, we are going to have new barrels, better barrels, entering in from the end of 2025 on, Alaska, León-Castile, and so on. And we are going to reduce probably our exposure in some places where we think we can't create value. Thank you, Lydia.
Thank you.
Thank you, Lydia. Our next question comes from Alessandro Pozzi at Mediobanca. Please, Alessandro, go ahead.
Yeah, good afternoon. I was wondering if you can give us maybe your view on what is happening in the moment in the biofuels market. You still expect to have a positive contribution from the new project for 2024, but the market is clearly much weaker compared to the start of the year. You mentioned Chinese imports, maybe the EU is putting duties that could potentially help as well.
But I was wondering how you see this imbalance between supply and demand at the moment evolving over the next few quarters. And also, going back to the upstream, can you tell us what are the key where you are with the next key FID that you're planning to take in upstream? Thank you.
Grazie, Alessandro. I mean, going to the biofuels, I mean, you are right. The current situation in the market is quite depressed. That is not new. I think that the main driver was the reduction of the mandate in Sweden that put an additional 1 million tons a year in the market. That is significant because that will be something between 5-6% of the total European market.
And what we have seen, I mean, the mandates are going to grow in 2025, in both sides of the pond. In Europe, there is also a clear indication in terms of growing in coming years in the current European directives, RED II and RED III.
So I mean, market is going to grow. And today we are, as you expressed, being very weak balance on supply, demand. Today, the prices are very low, $600 per ton, more or less, in terms of HVO minus UCO, UCO, margin. I mean, let me say, margins have depressed, but even at these margins, taking into account our production, Cartagena C43 has an EBITDA of EUR 50 million in for a whole and complete year. So, it's not the 180 we expected when we planned this plant.
But, if we take even what we had, 5-6 months ago, I mean, $1,000 a ton of margin, and that we are going to have probably in coming months, I mean, this EBITDA will be closer to EUR 140 million-EUR 150 million coming from this project. So let me say, we are comfortable about the 3.43 in Cartagena. Not every biofuel project is going to get money. That, we have to be clear about that.
But projects that are mainly brownfield, even Cartagena, because the integration level in utilities side, and so on, is fully integrated in the Cartagena site, and of course, the Puertollano, that is going to start in operation at the end of 2025.
Plus, the integration in the site, plus focusing in our internal market and Repsol needs, I mean, we are comfortable with these FIDs we took, with this production we have. And I'm going to say more, I mean, we are working technically and preparing to take in some other Spanish refineries, new FIDs in coming probably two years. So we have to prepare the projects in technical terms.
But what we are seeing is that because the mandates that are already approved in European directives, we are going to have a very tight market in terms of supply-demand for this kind of renewable fuels in Europe. And let me say more... As I mentioned before, we are starting to sell 100% renewable fuels in our service stations. Already 350-600 service stations at the end of the year.
So we have seen even a specific market for this kind of, of products. Going to the upstream, probably two clear projects as to take FID in coming 2 years. Sakakemang in the gas production in the Sumatra Island, in Indonesia, and Mexico. I mean, we are very happy with Mexico. You know that we have our two wells that were positive. We already have an area to be developed. And thanks to this discovery of the project operated by Eni, where we have a 50/50 stake, I mean, we see opportunities to optimize the whole area.
I mean, we have, of course, to talk and to discuss about that, but I think that we have a clear case for a new FID that is going to support the sustain and improvement history of production barrels of the E&P of Repsol. Thank you, Alessandro.
Thank you, Alejandro. Next question comes from Alejandro Vigil at Santander. Please, Alejandro, go ahead.
Hello. Thank you for taking my questions. One question is about Venezuela. If you can elaborate about the potential recovery of loans and the agreements you mentioned as well in terms of heavy oil access coming from this country.
And the second question is, in terms of your low carbon business, you have about EUR 5 billion of capital employed and the profitability, and looking at the numbers, looks relatively low today. But I'm sure in terms of this as a rotation, it basically, you can confirm the profitability targets you have for this unit. Thank you.
Gracias, Alejandro. Going to Venezuela, first of all, we enter in a new dynamic in Venezuela, and that is important. I mean, when we were talking about the downstream, for instance, we saw that over the last quarter, we processed 8 cargos coming from Venezuela, and we are processing 2 more this July.
In terms of recovery over the last months, I think that we have recovered loans by 5 cargos, supported by, I mean, paying the debt of Petroquiriquire, and 5 cargos for the gas production in Cardón. So I mean, we are improving in the right direction.
There is a rationale behind this transaction we closed one or two months ago. You know, we have an agreement to incorporate two new fields, Tomoporo and La Ceiba. They produce 20,000 barrels gross. There is an agreement that establish a direct allocation of a part of this Petroquiriquire revenues to pay the financial debt that is owed by Petroquiriquire to Repsol.
We have seen potential synergies with the current wells and areas we have there, Barlovento, Mene Grande, and so on, in the Maracaibo Basin. I mean, we have a strong potential to improve the recovery factor of fields, because, I mean, we are talking in these new fields about 5 billion barrels of oil in place.
Of course, you have to multiply the recovery factor, but we are talking about 5 billion barrels. So I say that it's a win-win agreement. I mean, it's allowing us to recover the past commercial debt, and we are advancing in this direction. We are starting to increase the production that is going to happen because we are starting to investing in this JV we have with PDVSA.
And in Petroquiriquire, we are improving the cash flow profile of Petroquiriquire in order to pay the financial debt to Repsol, and we are also improving the feedstock profile of our refining system. And it's very positive for the Venezuelan society because we increase production and we increase the tax payment coming from this production in the country. So we are quite happy.
We are seeing the results, and I mean, we are, I mean, working hard in this direction to optimize the execution of this agreement. I mean, you said about the profitability looks weak. I mean, let me say something. I mean, first of all, there is a part of the revenues and of the returns and of improvement coming from this business that is not going to appear in this P&L. I mean, every time we are rotating an asset, and in many cases, I mean, the buyers are acquiring a 49%, paying 1.3, 1.4, 1.35 times the CapEx we develop.
I mean, this, this acquisition or this disposal from our side and this, let me say, in figurative terms, P&L, is not technically a P&L because we maintain the control of the 51%, eh, it doesn't appear in what is the P&L of this business. Secondly, I mean, this business is growing. That means that we have a structure, we have developers, we have new companies like ConnectGen, that they have costs, but they don't have revenues now.
So we have, let me say, supporting a structure that could be, able to, to, to be operating 9-10 gigawatts by 2027, and 16-18 gigawatts by 2030. That, is charged over the 3 gigawatts we have today in operation. So from the point of view on P&L, there is, a temporary effect, there.
Thirdly, I mean, as I mentioned before, the first half of the year, in price terms in the Spanish market, you have to take into account that we have a 50%, we include combined cycles, hydro, and so on, of the positions open. It's not the same in the US, where we have PPAs above 80%-85% of the total production.
So, all that is behind what you mentioned of weak P&L in the low carbon business. But again, in any period we have in our hands, and we are disposing, in all cases, we have returns that are clearly above the 10% of the equity return in this business. So, gracias, Alejandro.
Thank you.
Thank you, Alejandro. This question comes from Matt Lofting at J.P. Morgan. Please, Matt, go ahead.
Hi. Thanks, gents, for taking the questions. Two, if I could, please. First, I just wanted to come back to the numbers that you referenced earlier on, on the outlook around the cash return. If we take the low end of the sort of the 6.5-7 CFFO and 31% CFFO, I guess, you're implying about EUR 2 billion of cash return for the full year. Could you just clarify the sort of the assumptions or the numbers that you're assuming on the buyback side to get to the 31%? 'Cause it did sort of seem to us as if there might be a bit of underlying headroom based on the 20 million shares within that already.
And then second, on the payment that Repsol made to sign a PEC related to the UK E&P business, could you just clarify with the CMD, capital allocation outlook that you gave, how that was treated? Was it ever in your CFFO or net CapEx numbers, or was it always excluded and assumed to just be taken onto the balance sheet, given the gearing headroom that you have? Thank you.
So I mean, going to your first question, I mean, the assumptions are the dividend pay, that is, EUR 1.12 billion this year. EUR 60 million share buyback. That all in all is EUR 2 billion, more or less, roughly speaking. Comparing with EUR 6.5 billion euros, that would be behind the 31%. In any case, Matt, of course, you could check these figures with our IR team, if either I'm not explaining that in the right way, that is always possible, let me say, or we have any kind of a mistake. I mean, the IR team is going to check these figures for you. Going to the payment to Sinopec-...
I mean, well, of course, we also could check that, but there is no any impact on net debt, because when you take, there is a reduction of the cash flow from operation, but in the other side, you have a reduction of a financial debt we commit in 2023. So when you take, I don't have in front of me now the exact, yes, I have it.
I mean, when we take the part of this year in terms of the financial part of the business, what we see is that when we take the interest, leases and others, there is a positive figure that is fitting the negative one that is reducing the cash flow from operation. So there is no impact in any case in capital employed. Thank you, Matt.
Thank you, Matt. Our next question comes from Irene Himona at Bernstein SG. Please, Irene, go ahead.
Thank you very much. Just, John, you mentioned that you have received around EUR 300 million of EU aid for the renewable hydrogen projects. Do you treat that as part of net CapEx in your first half numbers? And have you applied for other potential aid which may come through in the second half?
And my second question, following the settlement of the Sanoberg litigation, you still have an outstanding issue with the potential liability for Peru, the oil spill in Peru. You have taken a provision there. What is the total amount you have been sued for, and what is your lawyer's best estimate for the timeline to resolve this litigation, please? Thank you.
Thank you, Irene. I mean, first of all, I mean, there is no anything in our accounting today related to this announcement that was done by the European Union and Spanish government. So, we didn't receive yet any proceeds coming from this subsidy, as you mentioned.
In case of going on and investing, that will be considered as less CapEx. So, but again, as I mentioned before, when I answer, I think that it was to Michele, we have to, I mean, now, with these subsidies to reanalyze the project, to see the potential returns, to analyze the environment in tax terms, in business terms, and so on, and we'll take our decisions over the year 2025.
But in any case, that is going to be treated as a contribution to net CapEx. But again, there isn't anything today; there is not anything in our accounting, and probably that is not going to be in 2024. If we go to the oil spill in Peru, I think that for this purpose of everything linked to containment, cleaning, and monitoring of all the affected areas to minimize the impact to the environment, again underlining that we were not legally responsible for this spill, but we take the responsibility, let me say, in moral terms of leading the cleaning of the area.
Remember that this spill happened due to a sudden movement of the Italian ship, Mare Doricum, during an unloading of crude oil, and that was the reason causing the pipeline fracture. So, all in all, we have spent more than $350 million in this cleaning remediation and social compensation. By the end of last month, by the end of June, I think that the final compensation agreements were closed with more than 98% of the impacted people, taking into account the database of individuals that was done by the government.
We have a total estimation of today of EUR 470 million-EUR 480 million at the end of the road, and of course, we have to take into account also the insurance recovery that is also going to be significant. So that will be Irene, all in all, the summary I could develop now about the oil spill in Peru. Thank you.
Thank you, Irene. Next question comes from Pedro Alves at CaixaBank. Please, Pedro, go ahead.
Hi, thank you for taking my questions. The first one, I'm not sure if you have detailed before, but within your CFFO guidance, apart from the $8 per barrel in terms of refining margins, what are your other macro assumptions, namely, Brent prices and Henry Hub? And the second question, with regards your asset rotation plans, for the second half.
So within the EUR 5 billion net CapEx guidance, just wanted to make sure that you are still aiming for roughly EUR 1 billion from renewables and now almost EUR 0.5 billion from upstream, as you guided before in the latest call. Thank you.
Gracias, Pedro. I mean, figures I have here in mind, in the guidance, or the assumptions, better said, are for this 6.57 in the low range of the cash flow, so close to 6.5, is $80 a barrel, $2.4 per million BTU for Henry Hub, $8 a barrel per refining margin, 1.08 for dollar-euro exchange rate. And I have to check the figure, but I don't have the figure now, but I think that, in terms of TTF and NBP, that is, they are impacting in other way. We are thinking or assuming something close to 9-10 $ per million BTU, more or less.
But I have to check this figure, you could nine point six, I mean, I here, I have recorded the nine point six for TTF, and it seems to me that the MVP will be a close figure. The net CapEx guidance is this EUR 5 billion I mentioned before. And yes, we are including in the second half of the year with a quite high probability an asset rotation process in Spain, and the first, let me say, round of the new projects in operation in the US.
In terms of materiality, probably the US is going to be more important, because here we are going to have not only, let me say, the entrance of a new investor, but also the consolidation of the project finance in the US that are going to be also part of the equation. Thank you, Pedro.
Thank you, Pedro. Next question comes from Fernando Abril at Alantra. Please, Fernando, go ahead.
Hi. Could you hear me?
Perfectamente, Fernando.
Okay. Hi, hola, Josu Jon. Just one question is with regards the capital structure of the company. So I don't know if you can give us an update on the different net debts by the main vehicles you have, no? Upstream, which is 75% owned, renewables, and then the remaining of the business, no?
Because it's been almost two years since those acquisitions took place. If I recall correctly, upstream had more than EUR 5 billion net debt allocated, and renewables EUR 500 million net debt. So I don't know how things are as of today, more or less. Thank you.
Gracias, Fernando. So, what I could disclose now is that, I mean, the total net debt, the net debt is consolidated of the group, is EUR 4.6 billion. It seems to me, I have to check the figure, but 4.3 are leases. So, in terms of-
Yeah
... let me say, following the oil criteria, it will be only EUR 0.3 billion of the net debt. And there are some intercompany financial loans with between different vehicles. But, I mean, we could check and discuss the exact figures with the IR team, Fernando. Gracias.
Thank you, Fernando. Next question comes from Henri Patricot at UBS. Please, Henri, go ahead.
Yes, thank you. Hello, everyone. Two questions from me, please. The, the first one, coming back on, on upstream disposals. There have been a few, reports about potential, disposals in, in recent weeks. I was wondering whether there's any, change in, in relative preference between, making asset disposals or, going for, for an IPO, later on, whether that's still something that you'd be looking to do?
And then secondly, on the, on the Puertollano , biofuel project, which you, you know, show as a, a first production in 2026. I seem to remember that it was, a 2025 project previously. Is there any, delay here at the Puertollano ? Thank you.
Oh, merci, Henri. If we take... I mean, we are not factoring in our strategic plan any proceeds coming from a liquidity event, so that means that is going probably to happen, because we have the commitment to prepare the E&P company for a liquidity event for the Q1 of 2026. Of course, we have to check the market at that time and see if that is going to happen or not, or in which way it's going to happen, this liquidity event. IPO, of course, is one of the center possibilities we are working in. In the midst, the disposals they have a rationale of improving the quality of our E&P business.
Remember that we insist a lot in the, in our strategic plan, that I mean is more important for us, the way that the end of the road. That means that the IPO or liquidity event is very important, but in the midst, we have, first of all, to improve the quality of our portfolio. So after divesting in Ecuador, Russia, Canada, Malaysia, Vietnam, and so on, we are going on in this roadmap of having, let me say, less countries, but with a more capacity to grow in.
Secondly, we are increasing the cash flow from operations per barrel, so the new barrels that are going to enter in the Gulf of Mexico, US, and so on, in the future, Brazil, Campos 33, are better barrels of these barrels we are going to dispose.
And in this, let me say, logic, we are going to, and we are, I mean, touching, let me use the term, the market, to see if some potential disposals or, in some cases, why not, farm downs of some projects we are investing in, could be possible.
So, we are engaged in these kind of processes, and for that reason, we will say that, I mean, we are putting some kind of floor of 550,000 barrels a day of production, because we could eventually see some disposals before seeing the new barrels. Remember that we are going to have new 95,000 barrels a day of new barrels coming from the projects we are developing in an organic way.
So, that is the rationale and, in the logical way behind these disposals. In the case of the Puertollano retrofitting project, I mean, as I announced, at the end of 2025, project will be operating. Be sure that, I mean, the commissioning process and so on, probably we could enter in the first weeks of 2026. But, I mean, we are factoring the best, the same operation date we announced before, the end of 2025. Thank you.
Awesome. Thank you.
Thank you, Angi. Next question comes from Paul Redman at BNP. Please, Paul, go ahead.
Hi, and can you hear me?
Yes, we can hear you.
Perfect. I just wanted to ask a quick question about these comments on upside to CFFO and potentially more distributions, if that's the case. Is that all driven by a macro movement, or are there other moving parts on an organic basis within your CFFO that could get you to essentially top end of the range, the EUR 7 billion? And is that enough?
You're currently talking about bottom end of the guided range on cash flow from operations. If you get close to EUR 7 billion, will you update the distribution program at that point? And then secondly, just on production, even towards the top end of the guided range of 570-600 mboe/d, what's the drivers of either the upside or the downside on the range that you've guided compared to what you've got in 1H 2024?
So, thank you. I mean, the potential upside is not operational. I mean, because what we are factoring is that our refining plants and so on, they are going to operate in a normal way. So it could come from the macro scenario, and probably the most, let me say, significant drivers will be a better expectation about the refining margin.
Secondly, a better Brent price or a better gas prices, either in the U.S. or in Europe. In Europe, because, I mean, it seems to me that in case of entering in a winter, that could be, and I don't know, of course, because I don't have a crystal ball, but colder than the last two winters. I mean, probably the gas figure and the gas expectation could be different.
So, but I mean, I don't want to build, as French people say, château en Espagne. So, things that are, let me say, figurative. I prefer to have solid pillars, and expectation we have was reflected in the guidance we mentioned. Again, in case of seeing a better micro scenario coming from the factors I mentioned before, we are of course committed to improve in the shareholder, the shareholder distribution, following the guidelines we defined in the strategic plan. Going to the production, I mean, the main driver could be a potential disposals. In terms of, and we have potential drivers to increase this production.
But again, I prefer to be proud, but the potential drivers will be first Venezuela, I mean, where we are increasing the production and in case of performing in the right way, following the agreement we have, we could see good news in Venezuela.
UK efficiency, where after taking the control of operations, we are performing, let me say, in a more focused way, the asset, and we could have better news coming from the UK. Wyoming is performing in the right way, and we could see a potential upside and increase of production. And I mean, you know, the non-conventional, the unconventional is always a shift production.
You know that we have one rig in Marcellus. We shut down this, this rig at the end of June because the current have prices, but in case of seeing a better gas price arena in the US, so we are ready to, to go on. So there, there are potential drivers to go to the high range of these 600,000 barrels a day. And from my point of view, to go to the lower range, the, I mean, disposal will be the main driver.
Thank you, Paul. Next question comes from Kim Fustier at HSBC. Please, Kim, go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. I've got two. First one is more of an accounting question. The non-controlling interest was a positive number this quarter, as opposed to a negative number, and it seems that even when it is negative, it's a much smaller figure, pretty much every quarter, ever since you sold 25% of your upstream business.
Could you maybe explain why that's the case, why it's such a small figure? And secondly, I've seen media reports that you're considering merging your North Sea business with a PE-backed independent E&P. So what would be the rationale and benefits of such a combination? And is that move triggered in any way by the potential changes in the UK fiscal environment? Thank you.
Thank you, Kim. I mean, of course, what I'm going to say now, perhaps you could check it with the IR team later, but what we have in mind is that this minority interest that is... I think that is around EUR 209 million-EUR 210 million in the Q2, is mainly the dividend to the partner in the JV of the E&P. I have to check this figure, but this is mainly this figure, and there are another one, but they are not material, dividend in the Valdesolar project. Probably, to the partner of the refinery of Petronor is also there, but are a small amounts of money.
So it's mainly the dividend to the partner in the JV of EMP. But, I mean, you could check these figures, please, because that is what we have in mind with the team of IR. Going to the North Sea business merger news, I mean, first of all, the change in the U.K. environment, for the best and for the worse, is not new. I mean, I think that market has discounted what we are seeing now over the last year, because the kind of approach of the Labor Party that now is ruling the country, was perfectly known some months ago.
Now, I mean, we have to see and check what is the approach in terms of combining how they see the oil and gas business, and the effort to keep going and to maintain this business that is very significant in areas like Scotland, and mainly the area of Aberdeen.
But I mean, that is not in our hands. We have to wait, and we have to see. But what is true is that we have ways to improve our business in the North Sea. And you know, we have a significant pool of tax notes from the former Talisman coming from the past, and we could optimize these tax pools either merging or having any kind of inorganic transaction with some others.
We are working in this direction, I'm not going to hide it. And, on top of that, I think that the... As I mentioned before, we are seeing, potential efficiencies in the UK, and I'm sure that merging with some others, could be also a way to, to increase the, the level and the ambition of this synergy.
So we are going to work hard, in this, direction in coming months, because let me say that, what could happen and what we could improve our business in these directions is independent from the, on the, let me say, political or regulatory environment, in the UK. Thank you, Kim.
Thank you, Kim. Next question comes from Matt Smith at Bank of America. Please, Matt, go ahead.
Hi there. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. The first one was coming back to the buyback. Sorry, I was coming to a similar conclusion as Matt earlier. Perhaps as a simple way to sort of round off the question, which is to be, to clarify whether you expect to announce another buyback tranche in your next set of results in the current macro environment, or is the suggestion that you would need an improvement to the current macro backdrop to increase that payout ratio?
So that's the first question. And then my second question would just be on the refining trends, if I could. I think the availability of heavy crudes has been sort of favorable to Repsol, and whether that be, you know, Mexico or Venezuela. I wanted to touch upon the crude differentials, if I could, whether you've sort of seen any, any trends there, and whether that's playing into the premiums at all? Thank you very much.
Thank you, Matt. I mean, I announce eventually, or not, that is going to depend on the Q3, this new potential share buyback. But, of course, if there is a clear market condition improvement, improving the guidance we have for this cash flow from operation, be sure that we have another one in October.
And I announce in that case, this new share buyback program in the presentation of the Q3. The crude differentials, what we are seeing is positive, as I mentioned before. It's true that in April, May, we had a very bad expectation related to the announcement done by Mexico, by Pemex, about the reduction of the exports of heavy oil and so on. But...
true that over the quarter, I mean, Pemex and Repsol, we were able to maintain more or less the same level of commercial relationship we have had over the last year, so there is no any negative impact. And it seems to me that that is going, that is going to go on in the future.
The impact of Venezuela is, of course, also positive. That is impacting a positive way in the premium, and for that reason, even though the situation of the biofuels market I mentioned before, we are factoring these $2 a barrel of premium for the second half of the year, and all in all, this $1.7 a barrel for the whole year.
Of course, the absence, the lack of turnarounds campaigns in this second half is the main driver to have this target. But being quite comfortable about this heavy crude supply is also one of the reasons for factoring this figure. Thank you, Matt.
Thank you, Matt. Next, next question comes from Ignacio Doménech at JB Capital Markets. Please, Ignacio, go ahead.
Hi, yes, thank you for taking my questions. I just have one, which is a follow-up on the CFFO. On the moving parts, okay, of that EUR 6.57 billion guidance, the macro assumptions now are, clear. But I was wondering on taxes, which have been relatively low so far this year, I believe they, in the second half, you, you still have part of the windfall tax, but I was wondering, what's roughly the figure, okay, that you- that's embedded in the, in the EUR 6.57 billion guidance?
And also on working capital, you know, because I believe in the past, you, you expected this to be neutral, so, after the maintenance carried in the first half of the year, just wanted to make sure, this is still the case. Okay? Thank you.
Gracias, Ignacio. I mean, we have received many questions over this over the morning from some of you related to this let me say low tax of 45% of the EMP. I mean, we are probably quarter after quarter explaining what is happening in the EMP to pay let me say a lower interest, or a lower sorry tax rate than we had in the past.
Let me say that of course I don't have a crystal ball things could eventually change up and down but I think that 45% is the new normal in the EMP. Why? Because we are changing our portfolio and portfolio means that we have more U.S.
Some countries like, for instance, Trinidad and Tobago, they have less results than they had in the past. So we are changing the basket of results of the countries, and because every country, every jurisdiction has a different tax rate, all in all, it seems to me that we are going to be closer to the 45 in the future than from the former 49, 50 we had in the past.
Of course, we could explain, of course, differences, because sometimes we see 42 and sometimes 46. But it seems to me, and I think that you could take into consideration in your models, that probably 45% is going to be the new normal. And today, the best approach we have is the second half guidance is going to be similar to the first half. Thank you. Gracias, Ignacio.
Thank you, Ignacio. Next question comes from Anish Kapadia at Palissy Advisors. Please, Anish, go ahead.
Good afternoon, thanks for taking my questions. Just a couple of questions. One of them is on some of the political changes in Latin America, specifically in Mexico, with the change of government and then potential change in Venezuela. If you can just update on how that's changing or potentially changing any of your plans over there.
And then the second one is looking at the hydrogen business and the prospects for it. You've talked in the past about investigating the potential for geologic or natural hydrogen. Just wanted to see how you've progressed with that, how you're seeing the potential, and, you know, whether you're kind of putting capital into exploration over there. Thank you.
Thank you, Anish. So, I mean, Mexico, I think that, of course, we have to see that, we have a new president, that in some way, is, she has her own personality, but is, of course, some kind of continuity in the best sense of the word, of the President López Obrador.
So, our perception is that, these Mexican authorities, then and now, they are fully focused in promoting the local resources, and to increase the power of Mexico as a country, relevant in terms of producing hydrocarbons. So I think that in this framework, they launched this openness to international companies. We have been part of that.
We have discovered resources, and it seems to me that we are fully focused in the upstream side to this Mexican, let me say, driver of recovering the oil production in the country. I mean, we want to be part of this history or of this narrative of Mexico in the future. Going to Venezuela, of course, there is an open election process that is going to celebrate next days. And our only worry is, of course, respect to Venezuelan citizens and their voice. And of course, we will go on working with the representatives selected by Venezuelan society.
But let me say that, I mean, the framework we have in Venezuela now is positive for Repsol, but I think that is very positive for the people of Venezuela and for Venezuelan society. Because we are working in a framework with the respect to all international legal frameworks, where we are contributing to increase
the production of Venezuela, to increase the tax collection in Venezuela, and at the same time increasing the revenues of these JVs, and helping to pay the historical and commercial debt we have, either Petroquiriqire with Repsol, or the debt related to the gas commercialization in Cardón. So it seems to me that this framework is positive and is going to go on in...
Of course, with my whole respect to the decision of the people of Venezuela, is going to be positive in any case, and we are going to do our best to work in this direction. Thank you. And the hydrogen, sorry. I mean, you are right. We have developed some technical works, mainly in the Spanish northern part of the sea, what is called the Gulf of Biscay.
And I think that we have seen and identified some areas that potentially could be geological storage for the future. But of course, any investment or development on that is going to depend on the evolution of the hydrogen market.
It seems to me that in coming 3, 4, 5 years, a relevant part of the hydrogen that is going to be produced in the Iberian Peninsula, and we are going to be part, potentially of this production, is going to be used by the current consumers, refiners. So, the need of transporting or either storing this hydrogen is going to be quite limited.
So I think that it's important to have, to prepare the future, to identify areas, to develop the technical work for that. But, I mean, I don't see, in the short midterm, any opportunity to invest in this potential storage more than what we are doing in small amounts of money in technical terms. Thank you, Anish.
Thank you, Anish. That was our last question. Before we close, please let me take a minute to say goodbye to all of you. After more than 38 years, I'm retiring from Repsol at the end of this month. During this time, I have had the privilege and the honor of witnessing the transformation of Repsol from a myriad of previously state-owned units into a modern multi-energy company, committed to being net zero carbon by 2050.
Rest assured that both our COO and our CFO, as well as the rest of the executive team, will continue supporting the IR team, which will now be led by Pablo Bannatyne, in the pursuit to provide timely, transparent, and comprehensive information about our business performance.
Finally, allow me to express my deepest gratitude to all of you, investors and analysts, buy side and sell side, for your support during this time. We have really enjoyed our stimulating conversations and your thorough questions, which always keep us fresh and challenged. With this farewell note, I would like to bring our Q2 conference call to an end. Thank you very much for your attendance, and have a very nice summer. Thank you.
Hey, Ramón, let me, on behalf of the whole Repsol's team, thank you, express my, my gratitude for your relevant and significant contribution to this company, and to build the current company we are today. So on behalf of the whole team, Ramón.