Ladies and gentlemen, Good day and welcome to the Amara Raja Energy & Mobility Limited Q1 FY25 post-results earnings conference call hosted by Batlivala & Karani Securities India Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Annamalai Jayaraj from Batlivala & Karani Securities India Private Limited. Thank you and over to you, sir.
Thanks, Suneet. Welcome to Amara Raja Energy & Mobility Limited FY 2025 post-issue conference call. From the Amara Raja management, we have with us today Mr. Y. Delli Babu, Chief Financial Officer. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Delli Babu for the opening remarks to be followed by a question and answer session. Over to you, sir.
Very good afternoon to everyone. Thanks for joining the call. I'll just briefly give an update on the quarter numbers. During the current quarter, on a year-over-year basis, we have seen on a standalone level, the revenue growth was about 13%. But if you adjust for last year's two months revenue of lithium, because April and May 2023, we had the lithium revenue also in the standalone results. Thereafter, it was demerged into the subsidiary. So if you adjust for that, then the overall lead-acid revenue grew by about 15%. This is, this revenue growth is coming on the back of a strong volume growth, both domestic and international automotive segments.
In domestic four-wheeler segment, the aftermarket grew about 11% in terms of volume and the volumes have grown about 6%-7%. In three-wheeler, we are seeing about 18%-19% volume growth in the aftermarket and volume is growing at about 25%. Even the other applications, predominantly the inverter batteries, we are seeing overall volume growth of about 15%. Of course, all these inverter batteries are traded, which is why the current quarter trading revenue mix is substantially higher over the immediate preceding quarter, at about 23%. In the international segment, the four-wheeler volumes have shown a substantial increase of about 45%.
That is coming because of the new accounts which have resulted in higher volumes in the North American markets, which is where that higher export volume growth was registered. But in the industrial side, we are seeing an overall volume degrowth of about 5%, predominantly led by the telecom segment, whereas the UPS segment and others have growth, shown a growth. The telecom segment has grown, shown a degrowth of about 20% on a year-over-year basis. Not only because the last year base number in telecom was higher, considering the higher CapEx that was there by the tower companies in the last year, so we had a larger base. As such, the lithium migration is also something that is going on at a reasonably good pace in the telecom side.
The current volumes of telecom are a result of a degrowth compared with previous year. When we look at the margins on a year-over-year basis, there is an improvement in operating margin by about 0.67%. That's coming on account of both the higher realizations we had, because we have taken a price increase in the month of June. About a 1% price increase was taken and also in the month of July, we have taken another 0.7% rate increase. When we look at on a QOQ basis, the numbers show that there is a margin dilution that's predominantly coming, as I explained earlier, about the higher trading mix of inverter battery and also certain other segments where some trading revenue was recorded, like lubes.
So that's where the overall gross margins would have shown a bit of a dilution because of higher trading revenue. We also had some bit of lead increase in the current quarter, along with other materials like copper and even plastics have shown price increase. So some of those costs also have impacted a bit on the margins. But with the price increases that we have taken, I'm sure that should compensate to some extent. So as far as the LEV business is concerned, we have seen a revenue growth of about 20% in the new energy side. That is coming predominantly under both the mobility and the energy storage packs that are being sold on the storage side and on the telecom side.
While we are seeing the charger revenue getting stagnated during the current quarter, we have not seen much of a growth on charger. While once we complete some of our localization plans around new chargers that we have developed, I'm sure this revenue will again give us a substantial growth in the coming quarters. So as far as the overall CapEx program is concerned, we are constructing the tubular battery plant now, so it is expected to complete towards the end of this financial year. So that for the next season, the inverter batteries will be available, instead of what we are doing, what we are meeting with the market demand from trading sources, I think we'll be able to meet a substantial portion of it through the own manufacturing.
will be the overall CapEx investment into the lead-acid business, including the tubular batteries, could be approximately INR 800 crore, about 450 of it going into the tubular manufacturing unit and rest into the small line expansions and maintenance CapEx that we incur in lead-acid. As far as the new energy business CapEx is concerned, I have explained earlier, you know, currently the pack facility in our new Telangana gigafactory is complete and it is going to start the commercial production very shortly, in about 10 days from now. We are also now the construction is going on full swing, both with respect to our customer qualification plant and the in-house two labs, plus the 2 GWh NMC line building construction is going on.
So as I mentioned earlier, between these three projects, we'll be needing about INR 2,000 crore of CapEx. As far as the LFP program is concerned, now the plans are getting laid out. We probably will have an initial capacity of about 4-5 GWh, covering about two partner bids and thereafter it will be scaled up based on the demand signals. At this point of time, we estimate, for this 4-5 GWh of LFP cells could also mean that another INR 2,000- 2,500 crore of CapEx will be required. As I mentioned earlier, now the plans, engineering plans and other things are in working progress, so if there is any change in these numbers, I'll come back to you and then communicate later. The overall consolidated revenue growth of 17% is coming.
Both the new energy pack business as well as the automotive business, domestically as well as internationally, have grown very robust. While industrially, we are seeing some hiccups on the telecom. The other segments, like UPS exports, have grown reasonably well. So with that summary, I'll now request any questions that you may have.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use headsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is on the line of Pankaj Tibrewal from IKIGAI Asset Manager. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Like, on the export side, can you give us some flavor of how has been the demand and what's the outlook going forward there? And second, you know, on the lithium side, the project which we are coming up with, is that something which we can also be used for energy storage batteries at some point of time, or is the technology completely different? These are the two questions. Thank you.
As far as exports is concerned, I think we have seen some good traction for the AGM batteries, particularly in some of the North American and European markets. Apart from our regular markets, the Middle East and APAC and African markets are also registering the best growth. The overall number of countries that we are currently serving have gone up substantially beyond 55-60 countries now, while the objective is to improve our market share in some of these newer markets that we have recently penetrated into and I'm sure the our overall objective is to grow the export business, as mentioned earlier, at a CAGR of 15%, at least for the next 2-3 years. With that intention, I think there are plans that are being laid out.
As far as the lithium project and the cells will definitely cater both to the energy storage market as well as, the mobility market. We believe LFP cells will be required for energy storage sites. So we are seeing already some of the packs that we are selling on the telecom storage side and other smaller storage applications are actually based on lithium LFP chemistry. So these cells that are expected to be produced will cater to both the mobility and the storage applications.
There's no different technology per se, which is involved on the energy storage side, which is you're trying to say?
There will be a difference in the ratings of the cells, but the base chemistry will not have a very significant change.
As a company, are we looking at that opportunity? Because that seems to be a very large opportunity coming along.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Cells, there is no way we can say that it is only for mobility. Definitely, storage is going to play a significant role in the overall, new energy chemistry requirement in the market because battery and energy storage system both at the grid level and also let's say a smaller microgrid level, will also play a very significant role. So C&I and grid-level applications for, battery energy storage system is expected to be a big area of growth and it is definitely in the radars, for us as a growth area.
Okay , great. Thank you so much. Wish you all the best.
Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is on the line of Mumuksh from Anand Rathi Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity, sir. So company is seeing doing well in terms of market share gains. Just want to understand what is driving such strong market share gains? And how do you see the market share over the medium term?
I think one of the ideas, domestically speaking, the two-wheeler aftermarket and four-wheeler aftermarket are showing strong volume offtake. I mean, particularly some of the newer brands that we have launched, like Elito, have really helped us to improve some of the volume offtake around the domestic side. But otherwise, our approach of creating the better availability and visibility for the brand at the local level and the retail efforts, which are continuing strongly for us, are definitely helping us maintain these higher volumes on overall basis. But this quarter, I think the overall volume jump, I think, is coming more from the international side, as against the domestic business.
Got it, Sir. Is it possible to indicate what kind of market share we would have in the two-wheeler and the four-wheeler segments, sir?
Today, on the aftermarket side. Both on the two-wheeler as well as on the four-wheeler, we should be having around 35% kind of a market share. When it comes to the volumes, as you know, we lower market share of about 25% in two-wheelers, whereas in four-wheeler, our volume market share could be around 35% or so. So in two-wheeler, in some of the brands, our market share is as high as 40%, but on an overall basis, we should be around, because we have been growing consistently on the two-wheeler at about 18%-20% kind of a growth rate.
So, We believe the two-wheeler aftermarket share will, of course, close up to 40% of the overall market share, while in the four-wheeler we may be around 36% or so.
Got it. Also possibly on the industrial side, on the UPS and inverter, what kind of market share there would be, sir?
On the home inverter side, obviously, we are only using traded batteries at this point of time. We believe our market share could be in the range of 15% or so, as far as the home inverter market is concerned. When it comes to the industrial UPS, we should be around 40%-45% in between range of the industrial UPS. Whereas telecom on an overall basis, both lead and lithium put together, we should be around 60% kind of a market share.
Got it, Sir. I just want to, what, you mentioned in the press release about the Highstar partnership. I'm assuming it is for the NMC technology. Can you further provide any details about this partnership?
No, it's the same technology licensing arrangement that we have with Highstar coupled with our own internal development of NMC cells. It is a technology arrangement that we have in. Beyond that, I don't think there is other details that I can share.
Awesome. Sir, just lastly, any full year volume guidance for the auto and industrial segment, sir?
No, at the company level, we have not been giving any guidance, but when we look at the growth rates in the aftermarket, I think, four-wheelers will be able to sustain about, seven to eight percent kind of a growth at the industry level and two-wheelers may be in the around 12%-13% kind of a growth rates are possible as far as two-wheelers is concerned. I think we will be able to grow a bit higher than, the market. That's about it. I don't think we are giving any specific guidance on our volumes.
Got it, sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity.
Thank you. The next question is on the line of Kapil Singh from Nomura. Please go ahead.
Hi, Good afternoon, sir. Can you hear me?
Yes, I can hear you, Kapil.
Okay, thanks. Sir, we saw very strong growth in the two-wheeler OEM. So can you give some color there, if you have added any new customer or any new product here, which has helped this?
No new customer addition per se, Kapil. It's basically the same customers that are higher volume through offtake this quarter.
So, is it share of business gains, or you can give some color why?
In the models where we participated, I think we had a higher volume offtake than we have seen during the current quarter, no new customer addition per se.
okay and sir, in the telecom business, you mentioned, there is a decline. So just want to understand here that, when we compare, your market share in the lithium-ion business and the lead acid business, is it similar? And the profitability per profile also, is it similar? And who are the competitors here?
No, see in telecom, there are at least about half a dozen players on the lithium side who are actually currently supplying packs. All of them obviously are importing the cells from Chinese market, so naturally, the margin profile will be completely different from the lead side. So it will not be as profitable as the lead acid batteries. But from an overall share point of view, because we do cater to customers like BSNL, Indus, et cetera, even on the lithium side as well, I think the market share on the lithium cannot be compared with the lead acid side, considering the number of players that are there.
Over a period of time, I think it will be too early for us to say any particular market share as a number, but I think it will take some time for the domestic supply chain to stabilize and then over a period of time, we are confident that we should be able to continuously maintain the overall market share at the current levels of what we are having today, considering the strong relationship what we have with the existing telecom companies. But I think these are early days. I don't think we should be able to put a number on it and then start discussing at this point of time.
Sure, sir. Because you know, one concern here is that, last time you had also discussed that you know in China, there is a big drop in lithium cell prices. So, will the local manufacturing be competitive enough? If you could give some update on that. Like, if there is any change in the pricing of lithium cells in China or it is still operating around similar levels?
No. See, I think, the Chinese ecosystem, the excess supply, what they have currently and the price levels at which Chinese companies are operating, I don't think there is a significant change in that, in this quarter. I mean, like I explained earlier, even for them to sustain these prices for a longer time is not going to be profitable at all. But, I'm sure, as I mentioned earlier, we will find our cost competitiveness on the conversion cost side, but they will definitely have that edge over the fact that they have a stronger material processing ecosystem that is available in that country. So we have to figure out, a way how to be competitive enough with them, both with the support of the government and at the industry level efforts.
We should be, it should not be hurting the applications. As long as it doesn't hurt the applications and we are able to provide cost-effective solutions, I think, this business will in long term be a profitable business. But at this point of time, yes, your concerns are valid by the fact that there is a current supply push that is happening from the Chinese ecosystem considering the fact that they have higher capacities.
Got it. So, so the pricing will be in what range? Around $60 for the sale right now?
The latest data that I saw is suggesting around 65 at the cell level. 65 to 60 is at the cell level.
And just, one last question. You mentioned trading revenue this quarter was around 23%. How much was it in Q4 and broadly, what is the annual mix that you would expect?
This year, because next season we will have partially our own manufacturing battery batteries coming up. On a full year basis, I think it should not cross 15% is my estimate now, but much will depend on how much of the next year's, next season's demand we will be able to meet with our own manufactured batteries and also how the used offtake increases. Because it is also gaining reasonable traction now. While it is still not a very material number, it is gaining some traction. So if that number increases, then, yes, there could be a change in the number, what I have said as 15%, but more, more, more or less, we should not be more than 15% for the current year.
Sure, sir. 4 Q next will be how much?
Pardon?
Q4 next, of trading revenue would be how much?
The immediate Q4 was around 12%.
Okay. That's all for myself. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Raghunandan from Nuvama Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. Sir, first question on the industrial side. In terms of industrial, other than telecom, how was the growth in Q1? And if I look at Q2, Q3, Q4, that is rest of the year, generally, what is the kind of growth you expect for industrial ex of telecom and for telecom?
Around 7%-8% is the growth that we have been consistently seeing other than, telecom, revenues and I think that trend will not be any different, as we move into the next years as well. But on the telecom, I will not be able to put a number around now because much will depend on some of the CapEx programs that they have. I don't think I will be in a position to give you a number as far as, telecom is concerned.
I got it, sir. On the lithium side, any timelines you can share for when the NMC project will come online and when the LFP project can come online? And only when these come online, that is when you would start supplies for companies like Ather. Would that be right understanding? And also, if you can talk a bit about the PLI incentive. So, so what would be the status of that? When is that likely to be announced?
As far as the NMC, the expected date of commercial production, as I mentioned earlier, it should be towards the end of FY26 or maybe the Q1 of fy27 and at this point of time, we believe even the LFP cell commercial production should start sometime in the calendar year 2027, while, I may be able to discuss a bit more granular dates once the designs are over. So it should be, both, at this point of time, both, the NMC and LFP, maybe towards H1, NMC will happen and towards, end of H2, LFP might happen. That's the timeline that we are currently looking at and as far as the sub OEM is concerned, it is obvious once we, once we start.
Right now, because the OEMs that we attend, that we are referred to, they do their own packs. So obviously, when we manufacture our own cells, is when there will be a commencement of supplies to people like Ather.
Anything on the PLI scheme, when it is likely to be announced?
I think there was the PLI scheme for the second 10 gigawatt hour was opened. I'm yet to get the official confirmation on the results. I'll let you know as and when there is an official announcement.
Understood, sir. So, we have been selected, or that is yet to be officially announced?
Technically, we are qualified, but I'm sure it's a competitive bidding process. Unless there is an official announcement, I don't think I should be in a position to talk about it.
Got it, sir. Wishing you all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vibhav from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Yes, thanks for taking my questions. Firstly, on your new energy business, just trying to understand the volatility in EBIT margins. I mean, just seeing it ranging from -6% to 13% in the last three quarters. So could you just help explain what's happening here?
Sorry, where, what number are you referring to? Can you-
The others business, which is primarily the new energy business. Your segmental margins basically was around 5% this quarter 13% in 3Q. So, just why the volatility?
I think, as I mentioned earlier also, because, the packs and chargers revenue, depending on, the mix and also depending on the volume. For example, if I do a larger volume, then obviously being a thin margin business, the, the, margins will be better. This quarter, as I mentioned, the charger volumes, was not growing. It was more or less the same as what we have done last year and also, we are ramping up on the, costs on setting up the cell and some of the expenditure which is incurred on, the research and also some of the costs that we incur in, setting up of the cell units, we will charge it to revenue. That's where you will see, a margin oscillation in this business.
But if you look at it at the contribution level, I think, around the 7%-8% kind of a number on the charger manufacturing, sorry, on the pack manufacturing and about 13%-15% kind of a margin on the charger manufacturing are possible in a stable scenario. But obviously, that also is subjected to the base cells and metals cost as a number. But these are still early days. I don't think we can fix on a particular margin number other than those broad guidance that what I have just mentioned. So these core margin oscillations will be there considering the hardware. There will be costs that will be going in, in the cell as well, because we are right now calling both cell and pack into a single segment, which is why you will see those numbers getting oscillated.
But from a revenue traction point of view, we are probably doing better than many of our peers.
Got it. That's helpful and second question is basically on the lead-acid battery business. Any CapEx that you think might be in store over the next few years? Just because, you know, you've been growing at very strong double digits and are we maxed out on capacity and any CapEx that you see going forward?
So as I have mentioned earlier, we are not saying we will not do any CapEx on lead-acid, but obviously, our intention is first to get the maximum out of the existing plants. So some of the throughput enhancement exercises that we have taken up recently have really given us higher capacities. We were able to add another 5-6% of the capacity without adding much of a CapEx. So that way, our current capacity of close to 21 million batteries on four-wheeler and about 32 million batteries of two-wheeler are running at a utilization of about 85%-90% and we have some line additions for the four-wheeler that we have already planned for.
So as of now, as a greenfield unit, I don't have any announcement to tell you that we are going to put up a capacity, but we will continue to work on increasing the efficiency of the existing machines and also add the required lines in the existing facilities. So that way, I don't have a larger CapEx announcement at this point of time, but we will not shy away from adding CapEx if we see a robust demand signal, which can actually help us get the payback, as we invest for any CapEx project.
... Mm-hmm. Got it. That's, that's really helpful. That's all I have. I'll come back in the queue. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is on the line of Aditya Jhawar from Investec. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, if you can help us understand that in this quarter, we have invested about INR 180 crore in InoBat and last time around, we had given a debt of INR 100 crore to the same entity, which got converted into equity. So, if you can help us understand the objective of this and how it is tied up with Gotion and what we understand so far is that Gotion payment is on royalty basis. That should ideally start once the sale commences. So if you can throw some light on this?
See, as you know, InoBat, we have made the investment almost two years ago. They are working on certain high-powered NMC cells for vertical take-off and landing vehicle requirements and they are also working on certain other high-powered NMC cells for some of the fast cars and they are also now they have a tie-up with Gotion for some of their requirements as well and the Slovakian venture, which is getting set up, between Gotion and InoBat, is also something that InoBat is participating in. So with all this happening, we made the initial investment of EUR 10 million about two years ago and thereafter, we made another EUR 20 million investment in this quarter.
So right now, InoBat is focused both on developing, you know, some advanced power cells for the NMC industry and also working along with Gotion for setting up a factory in Slovakia. So those are the two projects that they are working in and obviously, GIB is our, GIB is the entity which has given us the technology as far as development is concerned.
Sure, sure and sir, the second question is on the Circular Solutions Investment that we have made of INR 125 crore and cumulatively, we have invested about INR 445 crore. So what is the thought process here? And the next question is, what is the current debt level as on Q1 end and what is our plan for funding for our lithium-ion business?
As far as the Circular Solutions is concerned, as you know, in the first phase, we are setting up 100,000 tons of lead recycling facility. The refining operations, that is from the RML to pure lead, are expected to commence the commercial production in the month of September or october and then, we'll be using that lead coming from that factory for our purpose and the battery breaking operations are expected to come into production maybe about 4-5 months after the refining operations are completed. You know that this is part of our overall recycling initiative and also this should improve the overall recovery rates what we currently get from the outside smelters from the batteries and should help us improve the raw material security as well.
So once we do the entire 150,000 tons, that is what is being envisaged in that particular location, that should give us close to about 30% of our overall requirement from our own internal recycling sources. So that's the objective of that investment. I think after this, there may not be much of an investment that would be required into that subsidiary. Maybe for working capital, we may have to invest some money and as far as the current financial and cash flow position is concerned, I think we remain debt-free as we speak. I think going towards this year, the overall CapEx requirement between the lead-acid as well as the new energy maybe approximately around INR 1,000 crores-INR 1,500 crores could be the overall cash outflow number.
I think we may have to go for certain short-term debt in this particular financial year and then we are also working on the long-term financing program, considering the overall CapEx investment that's being done. So once we agree on a particular approach, I'll keep you posted. This year, I think we'll go-
Perfect. sorry, you can continue, sir.
I said for this year's CapEx, we should be capable of funding it using the leverage on existing balance sheet.
Perfect sir. That's it from my side. All the best.
Thank you. The next question is on the line of Jyoti Singh from Arihant Capital Markets Limited. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. So I just wanted some clarification on the price side, that you have mentioned we have taken 1% respectively for June and July. So that is 1% only or between 1%-2%?
No, it is 1% in June and another 0.75% in July on certain auto market products.
okay and so second, on the, some of the brand that you have mentioned, we are having major market share in the two-wheeler 40% and 36% in four-wheeler. So if you can name it, if possible?
Sorry, sorry?
Major market share we are having with which OEMs?
No, on all, I mean, with all the OEMs put together on the four-wheelers, we, we are having roughly about 35% as a market share and on the two-wheelers, we may be having around, 25%-26% kind of a market share as far as two-wheeler OEMs are concerned. On the aftermarket is where I think in four-wheeler we should be around 35%-36% and in the aftermarket two-wheeler, maybe we are reaching very close to 40%.
Okay. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhishek Jain from AlfAccurate Advisors. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Sir, as you have taken the price hike in the month of June and July both and the lead prices are also going down and you also mentioned that there's a ramp up in the inventory inverter battery plant. So just wanted to understand how much benefit we will see in the operating margin in the coming quarter because of these initiatives?
See, I don't think I would want to put a number around it. I think some of these pricing actions is not only purely linked to lead. There are other operational costs increase and also some of the metals like copper and plastics have shown an increase. Copper also has substantially increased. So I think it will be a call that is taken based on the costs and also the competitive pricing scenario. So it is not that the price increase is all pervasive. It's, it's more on the aftermarket side and obviously on the volume side, some of this gets passed on with a lag. So I don't think I would want to put a. There is going to be a material number because of this in terms of the overall margin profile.
This is more to take care of the inflationary impacts in the business.
But, we have seen a sharp cut in the prices of the lead in last 10-15 days and most probably that it will go down further. So we, we get the benefit of it in the coming quarter in terms of the margin.
Like I said, in the aftermarket, price correction is not done for every price change that's happening on the lead. So we have seen a sustained price increase for the two months, where it was started hovering around INR 2,150 level and also the rupee depreciating by almost 0.5 INR from INR 83 to INR 83.5. I think based on that sustainable price change, we have taken some correction. So when there is a downward revision, it depends on the market action and also based on how other costs are behaving, pricing decisions are taken. So I don't think for every change in the metal price, there is going to be a price action. As and when some pricing action happens, you know, either because of a sustained low cost material or because of competitive action, we will let you know.
Okay, sir and you mentioned that now the same prices has come down to the $65 per kilowatt. At the, at this price of $65-$70 per kilowatt, what would, what margin you would be able to make, in your lithium-ion battery plant, including PLI benefit and excluding PLI benefit? If you can throw some more light there.
See, again, as I mentioned earlier in my earlier calls also, it is too early to get fixated on a particular number and think that this is how it is going to be, because we need to achieve a given scale for us to really put a margin targets and then see how we can achieve them. So right now, what we have is the what the experience of other cell makers, where at a higher scale, with maybe around $70-$75, kind of a lithium price cell prices, is where you can see a lower double digit of operating margin at EBITDA level.
So that's the broad understanding what we have, but I don't think we can right away say that this is the exact way it is going to pan out, because the CapEx investments required and the material costs that are involved in lithium ion, do keep changing. So I think we need to hold our horses for some time.
Okay, sir. My last question on the Lubricant Business Revenue in the q1 and what would be the full year target for this?
As I mentioned earlier, we don't give any full year guidance numbers in this call. We believe that there is reasonable traction happening on the two-wheeler and three-wheeler lithium part business, along with the energy storage requirements that are coming up. We believe our charger business also will ramp up towards the second part of the financial year. So last year we did about INR 500 crore of revenue. I think we should grow at a very aggressive percentage. So this quarter we have grown about 20%-25%. I'm sure such kind of numbers are repeatable, but I don't think I am in a position to tell because-
Sorry sir, but I'm talking about the Lubricant Business Revenue.
Sorry?
Lubricant Business Revenue.
I think that those numbers are still to gain that traction. I think we have been growing reasonably, but maybe in the next quarter I'll try to base on half year numbers. I'll try to share you some numbers.
Thank you for that. That's all from my side.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bhuvan M.G. from Tiger Assets. Please go ahead.
Hello, am I audible?
Yes.
Thank you for the opportunity, sir. I would like to know how much of lead you consumed in this quarter and how much was that recycled and from whom all do you source?
80% of our lead requirements will be from recycled sources. We have a host of vendor partners from whom we buy and we also buy some lead from people like Hindustan Zinc and then we also import some lead from the other sources as well.
Can you name a few of your vendors?
I don't think I'll be able to do that. There are, I mean, you know, in the listed space, I think there are good many number of players. I think you can look it up.
After commencement of your lead recycling plant, how would EPR provisioning benefit from it, or any idea on that?
The extended producer responsibility is to ensure that as far as batteries are concerned, procure the waste battery and then recycle them, ensure the recycling in a responsible manner. So right now, also considering the fact that we collect batteries and get them recycled through our own partner recyclers, we are meeting those obligations under the Battery Waste Management rules and once we have our own facility, we will be able to do it with lot more ease and then even the recovery percentages will be to our advantage. So that way, from a compliance of BWMR Rules are concerned, I think we are meeting those which are stipulated under those rules and I don't see much of a challenge around.
Amara Raja recently partnered with Ather for. Can you give more color on that?
It's a MOU that we have entered with Ather for supply of cells for the two-wheeler application, both on the NMC and electric industry. Other than the comments are, the production capacities for the cells, I think Ather has agreed to buy the cells from us. We will be working with Ather for any new product requirements that they may have, so that it will help in filling our capacities for lithium as well.
And does the company have any plans to get into lithium-ion recycling in the near future?
I think it is a little too early for us, because right now the idea is to get the lithium cell manufacturing going and I'm sure at an appropriate time, depending on the business scenario, we can take those calls. But I think I don't have any immediate plans to say that we are going to get into lithium.
Thank you and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is on the line of Sanjay Satapathy from Ampersand Capital. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir, thanks a lot for the opportunity. I say, you might have already covered, but still, excuse me for asking this, but, I just wanted to get the specifics in terms of your CapEx plan and what all factories will be getting commercialized in the immediate future.
Sorry, I think we have discussed about the CapEx plan as far as the current year is concerned. I think we will come back to you if there are any other plans around CapEx for the high-
I just wanted to know, some of the factories that you are starting in this quarter, where is... what are the timelines for that? If you can just.. and also the, lead recycling plant, that 150,000-ton, when exactly it is likely to be commissioned?
I think I just mentioned, the pack facility is going to start the commencement in this, mostly in this month. The recycling facility, first phase of recycling is going to start in the month of September or October. Then, the three factories are something that we will see happening sometime towards the mid of financial year, the calendar year 2027.
Understood. Thanks a lot, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Akshay Karwa from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity. So two questions from my side. Firstly, on the AGM batteries, you are absorbing large amount batteries. So how has the batteries been performing? Like, do you have any comments on these batteries, sir, in terms of the volume of the customers or any feedback that you have gotten for these batteries?
No, I think, internationally, we are seeing some good traction around AGM battery demand and domestically also, we have introduced that to some of the volumes and in the aftermarket. As of now, the performance is quite satisfactory.
Okay, sir, in terms of the capacity, so, what would be the capacity for these batteries compared to your lead acid batteries, sir?
I don't think I would want to give the number. These are basically the consumable type, especially when we
Got it, sir. Just my second question is towards the revenue breakup. If you could highlight some information on the auto OEM, auto aftermarket and industrial segments, the revenue mix for the last quarter, if possible.
Broadly, the automotive business forms in the standalone revenues, about 70% of the revenue is automotive and balance comes from the industrial segment. Beyond this, we are not discussing further sub-segment revenues on our call.
If it is okay, sir. No worries, sir. That's it from my side.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chetan Doshi, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Our congratulations for the good set of numbers. My first question is regarding your industrial segment. Indian Railways is expanding very fast. What are the opportunities the company is looking forward for Indian business from Indian Railways? And second question is regarding solar, because the solar is also a big emphasis. So how we are geared up to target this market?
As I mentioned earlier in this call, on the Indian Railways, we are present on the coach side and on the signaling side quite significantly. We continue to leverage some of the newer initiatives, like Vande Bharat trains that are coming up significantly. We have a reasonable presence in railways. I think we will capitalize on all the opportunities that are coming up, at least on the energy storage side. As far as solar side is concerned, the battery energy storage system is definitely going to be one of the large volume driver, particularly with the newer battery chemistries that are coming up in terms of lithium.
So I think we are developing those solutions around the energy storage and then, it will be an opportunity for us, to sell more and more lithium cells around, those areas. So there is a team that is focused on energy storage as a business and then we will be developing that business, you see, with the same rigor that we have been working on many other industrial products.
One last question is: How is the response there for... You have been participating in the Auto Expo in South Africa and Oman. So how is the response for some direct tie-ups with some OEMs in those places?
International markets, we are currently more of an aftermarket player than an OEM player at this point of time and we believe there is enough headroom for us to grow in the aftermarket side of the business. Our product is definitely well recognized in many of the markets that we are currently operating. So as and when there is, from a margin point of view and capacity point of view, if there is an exciting opportunity to work with an OEM, we will think about it. But right now, our international presence is more of
Thank you.
Thank you. That was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Annamalai Jayaraj for closing remarks.
We thank all the participants. We thank Mr. Delli Babu for taking time out for the call. Have a good day. Thank you.
On behalf of Batlivala & Karani Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your line.