Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Titan Company Limited's Q1 FY2023 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. C. K. Venkataraman, Managing Director, Titan Company Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you very much. Thank you all for joining in. It's been an exceptional quarter for the company, and I must thank all customers of the company, all employees, all partners and their employees, and all the leaders and managers of Titan Company, and its subsidiaries, CaratLane and TEAL for you know, meeting all the external challenges head on and delivering a very, very satisfying result on all fronts, including, of course, the financial performance that we're here to discuss. I would like to straightaway jump into the Q&A. So please start with the first person in line.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Anyone who would like to ask a question, please press star and one at this time. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is on the line of Avi Mehta from Macquarie. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Congratulations on this performance. I have two questions. First was, you know, after this sharp customs duty increase, there has been a lot of talk about, you know, the consumption scenario as well as the competitive landscape changing. Do you see that as a risk in your ability to reach that 2.3-2.4 times over FY 2018 to 2023 that you had earlier, that you were kind of gunning for?
Hi, Avi. Ajoy here.
Hi.
We are not seeing too much of a sharp impact of that. Gold prices have kind of remained in that INR 5,000-INR 5,100 range, and I think that is what matters to the customer.
Okay.
I don't even see any significant change on the nature and structure of competitive, you know, framework. I think everybody's facing it. It's okay. It's not. I think the larger piece, if at all, that you, we need to think about going forward is over the next few months, how is the entry point customer, you know, who's possibly more inflation challenged, et cetera. That may be more important than this, gold price increase because gold price increase has not been significant. It's not been a big jump. It's okay.
It's the customs duties not a big deal.
Yeah.
The customs duty is not. Sir, you said, I didn't understand the, how the entry customs. Is there any signs of concern that you're witnessing? Is that what you're highlighting or?
Yeah. We have seen, so buyer growths have been very good.
Mm-hmm.
We are seeing a greater traction on the higher ticket sizes and higher values, and also greater traction on stud rate. On the lower price points on gold, especially those who are looking at below 10 grams, below 15 grams every day, where there is some creeping level. There is still growth there's no question. Yes, it is not as high as the rest of the segments I showed. It's very early days because we are not sure how that. Because during Akshaya Tritiya, these customers came in good numbers. Then it's been a little muted. I think they'll come whenever there is festive season and there's a reason to purchase. That's the understanding that we are getting.
Therefore, hopefully August month where there's a lot of mini festivals, we are expecting a lot of those customers to also come in. Again, during season, we'll expect them to come. This is largely on the low price band in gold. Otherwise, everywhere else. But it's still a growth. I must just clarify, it's still a growth, not a, it's not that there is a serious stress and all that.
Sir, what share would this be? Sorry, just trying to understand this. Is this something that you think can tilt the growth in a reasonable manner?
No. It won't tilt the growth.
Okay. Perfect, sir. Sir, the second question was across the segments, you know, this quarter has been very healthy in terms of margins. Has there been any one-off in the margins that we should be aware of and or is this more, you know, structurally better more margin profile that we should be witnessing because of the initiatives that you've taken post-COVID?
Avi, you know, like, across businesses, I would say they, all the businesses have different operating leverages and, watches and eye care has very high operating leverage, and which is getting reflected with the growth. As far as jewelry is concerned, there is, I would not say one-off, but there is some gain which came through, 2, 3 elements. One is the, of course, diamond prices. The other one is, of course, in this quarter we had some spot gold purchase and forward contango, which is sitting in AGC, but through other income it gets compensated. So somehow. Then of course operating leverage in jewelry business also. Jewelry business could have a benefit of, I would say 80-90 basis points because of that. Rest all businesses have performed well, grown well, and that is what getting reflected.
If I may just try to understand this forward contango. We hedge, so logically there should be no margin benefit.
Uh-
Right, sir?
Other income, I don't know which level of margin you are looking at. Other income including, yes, you are right, there are sometimes differences between contango and opportunity cost, but that's a very, very minimal. There should not be any difference. You are right.
Okay, it's more leverage gold-based and diamond price-based, which is what you are essentially saying.
Yeah.
Okay, sir. That's all from my side. Congratulations and thank you very much, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abneesh Roy from Edelweiss. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks. My question is on eye care, so very high margins. Are you seeing benefit of liquidity drying up for the start-up businesses which compete with you? Not just for eye care business, across your other businesses also. Good margins, is it sustainable for these kind of businesses?
Hi, this is Saumen . As far as our margin structure is concerned, I think over the several quarters we have kind of demonstrated that 64%-65% gross contribution works, and it is to us it seems sustainable. Combination of house brand focus, channel mix, in-house production, India sourcing are the factors that give us that, you know, view. As far as the PBT percentage is concerned, that I think in the ballpark of 15%+ is what we anticipate. It's the sale swing of 10% can have a significant swing of your PBT percentage as we saw in, you know, some quarters between 15%-20% and so on. Fifteen plus is what we believe is sustainable. Frankly, I have nothing really to say about what's happening in the other side.
Sure. On the jewelry margins, you have done very well. My question is, what is driving this? Because your studded has grown in line with your other segments. If you could elaborate why wedding jewelry has grown a bit slower, any concern that you see there? Here again, is the advertising spends for the category now lower because in general the advertising rates are lower or the industry has gone to a lower level? If you could elaborate on the margin front.
Yeah. Abneesh, Ajoy here. The better margin delivery first and foremost is on account of operating leverage, what we're seeing in terms of the EBIT margin. Second, I would say in terms of a richer product mix, and when I say product mix, it's not just studded and gold, it's we look at all different categories. You know, there are many categories that we look at. Even within studded, there are slightly differential margins for different product categories. Third piece I would say, which Ashok shared in the previous one, was there is a, what he said about 80, 90 basis points, which is a one-off in the sense that it may not remain forever. It is there in this particular quarter. These are the three main reasons.
On advertising, we have not cut down. In fact, our advertising to NSV is pretty much where it is. In fact, we have been very, very prominent and very visible. We are not holding back on advertising, and neither is it that the rates have come down. It's pretty much what it was.
Sure. One last follow-up, and that's the last question. 23% CAGR in jewelry is extremely good. Of course, this is one of the highest growth rate in any consumption segment. Wanted to understand if you could comment on market share in three years, in your view, how it could have moved. Is it coming out because of any region-specific successes or is it because of pan-India activation campaigns? Because you have been very aggressive on innovations also. Could you elaborate on these points on a three-year basis?
Oh, okay. On a three-year basis, I think our market share earlier we used to quote 4%-5%, roughly. Right now we are quoting at 6%-7%. Also the base has gone up. I remember We used to talk about 300-350 thousand crores, around 350 thousand crores. Now, the latest figures that I'm hearing is INR 4-4.2 lakh crores. Certainly I think market share gain in a market which has also grown is one piece. Of course, part of the growth in the market has also been fueled by gold price gains, that we should not ignore that. In the recent past also, even diamond prices have gone up.
There is a certain ticket size sitting there. Even buyer growth has been good, you know, in terms of we are seeing, if I were to look at the absolute value growth, over 19-20 Q1 is around 80%. The volume that is buyer growth, the way we look at volume is buyer growth, is sitting or bills growth, if you were to take it, is sitting at 26%. It's a fairly healthy growth in, you know, transactions as well. Two things. I think the engines that were outlined earlier by Venkat in, you know, in the previous forums that he has done last five years, those engines, most of them are firing very well. During COVID period, there was a disruption in the Golden Harvest related pieces and therefore to that extent there's been a plus minus.
Again, enrollments have picked up very well and going forward we should therefore see good progress on that. The only addition that we have added in the last couple of years, one is we brought in a renewed focus on the lower ticket size, what we are calling as the core. Focusing on the lower price points and lower ticket size so that the funnel is strong because it is those people only over a period of time who will migrate on to becoming the high value customers. The second piece is digital. That has in the last two years built up as a solid engine. Even now it's contributing about 6% of our top line.
The third piece which is helping us is a slightly modified form of an earlier engine which is winning in low-share markets. Now we are in fact taking up many more markets and we are working across many different states. South, for example, we have seen very good traction. Parts of East, we have seen exceptionally good traction as well. In the three-year period, if I would say, South has really pulled up because of these strategic initiatives and also parts of East.
Sure. Thanks. That's all from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rakesh Jhunjhunwala from Rare Enterprises. Please go ahead.
Hello. Hello.
Hi, Rakesh. Hi, Rakesh. We can hear you.
My question is how is this Fastrack going? You introduced handbags and all that.
The women's handbags?
Yeah. In the Fastrack product.
Fastrack product. Yeah.
Yeah. Hi, Rakesh. Suparna here. Fastrack watches have grown quite well in the quarter. I mean, in comparison to the previous quarter one of last year, we have grown by 100%. The big thrust has been in the lower price economy, entry price products. In fact, we did a big campaign with Sonata, which is the entry price product. Fastrack smartwatches continue to do very well. We have a big winner in Fastrack Reflex, as well as we've had two new Fastrack smartwatches in this quarter, in quarter one. It's been a very good run for Fastrack smartwatches. We've really picked up a lot of traction.
Rakesh, we are also very excited about the Fastrack brand in the EyeC are category. Saumen, would you like to?
Yeah. Hi, Rakesh. We have just opened our second Fastrack prescription eyewear store, okay.
Right.
Specifically to address the youth segment. I think I mentioned it last time around. Very soon we are going to have 5, 6 in the city and 25 stores across the country. This is purely for youth segment prescription eyewear, like Titan Eye+ and the rest.
Thank you.
Hi Rakesh, Manish here. I think Fastrack girls bags are receiving a very good response. We launched spring summer drop one, drop two. While growth has no logic here because 2.5x-3x of the earlier years. I think we are expanding into the lifestyle and Shoppers Stop. Currently we're running about 60 stores plus, and we're getting very good response from the customers there and we're seeing very solid growth rates and momentum there. We are hoping.
Amazing, amazing, great performance.
Thank you. Thank you, Rakesh. Take care.
Thank you. God bless.
Yeah. Thank you. I'll speak to you later.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Percy Panthaki from IIFL. Please go ahead.
Hi. Congrats on a good set of numbers. My question is, given the kind of traction we are seeing on the margins in jewelry, I mean, typically, Q1 is one of the lowest margin quarters in the year, but we've still sort of crossed 13%. We are 13.5 ex bullion. Do you think in light of this, our guidance of this 12%-13% EBITDA for the full year is on the conservative side now?
No, no. I think we are okay with our guidance quarter-on-quarter. I, as I explained you in my earlier answer, that there is a one-time sitting here. I think our guidance remains 12%-13% EBIT margin for jewelry business.
Sir, would you be able to quantify the one time?
I said 80-90 basis point.
Okay.
Of course some operating leverage also sitting there.
Understood. Secondly, in terms of the wonderful response you're getting from the market, demand seems to be very sort of strong. Would you want to sort of front-end your store expansion in light of that?
Yeah. This is for jewelry or across.
Ajoy.
Across the board, Percy, everyone is pursuing a very, very aggressive. Because Titan has never, you know, let any you know relax on that front because this is from a medium-term opportunity point of view. We are pushing all the buttons in Taneira, in eye care, in watches, in jewelry. In every business, CaratLane, all brands, Zoya.
Yeah.
Everywhere, we are pushing the buttons on expansion.
Percy, I don't know whether you saw the report, but 125 net addition in quarter one. I would imagine, I have not yet checked, but this could be one of the highest number in our history.
Yes.
Sure. Yeah, understood.
If you're referring to Tanishq, delta six may look small or delta five on CaratLane may look small, but actually there are many very aggressive plans. It's just that some spillover, et cetera, is there. In quarter two you will see hopefully more than double in both.
So what-
Overall aggression is very high.
What are you targeting for the full year in terms of Tanishq number of store expansion?
We have a long list of 50, but we think maybe about 35-40 is what might materialize. Though if we get the right properties, right places, we might even go up to 50 if we are able to execute.
Okay.
CaratLane also has got likewise a very aggressive number, even bigger than that.
Sure.
Similar to Mia.
Sure. On CaratLane, you've done 6.9% EBIT margin. That's quite creditable for the scale of the business. We are still growing at a very, very fast pace, and I'm sure operating leverage would keep on kicking in for this business. Should we sort of be a few years down the line taking a double-digit EBIT margin in CaratLane as well, just as we do for Tanishq?
Yeah. Over a long-term period, of course, they have potential to reach to double-digit EBIT margin because they have been working and they have improved their, contribution, gross contribution, et cetera, et cetera. They are at the same time investing also a lot on talent and digital and stores and everything, marketing, et cetera. Digital marketing, as you might be aware, is becoming expensive. Over a long term, you are right. If keep a horizon of 5 years, they definitely have 3-5 years double-digit EBIT target.
Is there any plan or schedule to increase the stake here in CaratLane?
You know, right now, there is nothing. As soon as we do something, we discuss something, we'll let you know.
Okay. That's all from me. Thanks and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shirish Pardeshi from Centrum Broking . Please go ahead.
Hey. Hi, Venkat. Good evening and thanks for very impressive performance. I have three questions, starting from jewelry. When I look at the capital employed in the jewelry segment has gone up, and even the unallocated corporate expenses also looks little higher to me. Is there any explanation which is available?
Hi. Ajoy here. The capital employed in jewelry, well, we have taken a higher inventory kind of a position, right through the last quarter as well, and this quarter one, as well. We will probably continue to take a more aggressive bet on inventory, betting for growth. Because as we are going deeper into India, into many small towns and many different communities, and also pursuing the wedding agenda, as well as pursuing the high-value strategy agenda, et cetera, the stock turns on some of these will be little lesser. They won't be like the regular product. We are therefore betting on inventory, as one method. Also, of course, you must recognize that the value of inventory has gone up because the price of gold has been pretty high, and now diamonds.
In terms of value, it might have an even greater impact. Therefore what you're seeing is there. Our gold on lease as a percentage of the total has been slightly below what we would have wanted, and therefore on the capital employed it may look like therefore there is a certain, greater delta. That's a matter of quarter-on-quarter something will keep happening and it might change.
Ajoy, that was helpful. The question is that as Percy has pointed, quarter one is a little lower for us. In the inventory section, if it is going up, that means throughout 2023, the inventory will be at an elevated level because we also have the very strong growth in terms of opening up new stores.
Our stock turns are certainly quite good. They are, if we look at a trailing twelve-month stock turns, actually better. Even if it does go up, it's not such a big issue. As long as the total growth is coming in, and that's the strategy that we're adopting. Also, the risk on the inventory is that much lower because you can always melt. In fact, we did a little bit of that in quarter one. We in fact translated that to a different mix within a month.
If I may ask.
Yes, it may remain a little elevated, but the stock turn as overall is what's important, and that we are managing.
If I may ask, is it because of the exchange has gone up significantly?
No, not really. That's not
Okay.
In fact, if it does go up, yes, you're right, there is an impact on inventory. We have had on exchange. It's a growth driver for us, so we've seen a certain jump there. That's easily managed by in terms of melting and selling gold back onto the MCX. That's not a concern.
Okay.
That won't be impactful.
Just one follow-up. On slide 21, on the jewelry section, you mentioned that new buyers' contribution continuing to be quite robust at 46%.
26%.
46%.
Yes, yes.
I just wanted to have the understanding. Is that 46% contribution in jewelry segment has come because of new buyers?
Yeah. Okay. Sorry. I was confusing. Earlier figure I quoted was on growth.
Yeah.
And this is, uh, this is on-
Sure.
share contribution.
Yeah.
46% is good. Historically, we've been at the 44%-45% levels. In quarter one, 46% is among the higher numbers compared to previous 3-4 years quarter one numbers. Yes, new buyers' growth has been robust, and we are very happy about that because that indicates we are also in a way gaining share.
Would you be able to quantify it in terms of number of million footfall, something like that?
No,
We would be able to quantify, but normally we don't like to share such information.
All right. Thank you, Ajoy. My next question is for Suparna. It's heartening to know that the performance is really astounding. But then in INR 785 crore, the top line number what we have reported, what would be the variable contribution? And related question on that, we have seen a significant margin expansion. Is it happened because of the measures what you have elaborated during our analyst meet or something else has come, or is there any one-off? And if you can comment upon if this kind of margin is sustainable.
Yeah. Hi. The variable portion is still below 10%, and it is slowly inching. Every quarter, the percentage is only going up. As far as the margin is concerned, I think, the operating leverage having kicked in, that's where it is, you know, really contributing. I think there is also a combination of products, brand mix as well as channel mix that helps in this, and some of those are long-term trends. Brands, the brand Titan, which is powering the growth, is a more high-margin brand, and that is giving us, the increase in margin. Is it sustainable? Yes. I think the 13% rate is sustainable.
Okay. Just one follow-up on slide 70. Slide 47, you have mentioned the volume growth for watches has grown 108%. In a recovery stage, I think most of the things are normalizing. How much volume growth one can build? And maybe if you can give some more color, what is driving this number?
I think this is really because of the base effect of quarter one of 2022. Otherwise, you know, on a normal basis, this would be not sustainable. 100% growth would be. It's really value growth that is taking us. I think the other way to look at it is, for example, on the 165%-170% growth that we've seen in the NSV this quarter or over last year is actually translating to about 22% growth over 2019-2020. That is also a very healthy double-digit growth, which is what we are anyway aiming for targeting year end.
Okay. That's really helpful. My last question for Saumen. On the eyewear business, I think it is heartening to know that you have delivered a very strong performance. In the context of channel conflicts and other things which are behind, can we estimate the margin trajectory what you have mentioned is sustainable from here onwards?
Our predominant channel, almost 70+% is Titan Eye+ the retail channel. We have the distribution channel which is ranging between 15%-20%, and the assorted few other channel, including our own other retail channels. That I think would not significantly alter, even though the distribution component might increase a bit, but so would retail. Our estimate is that going forward, anything over 15% is what would remain as our sustainable margin projection for future.
Wonderful. Thank you, Saumen. Thank you, Venkat, for the opportunity, and congratulations once again, and all the best for the future endeavor.
Thank you. Thank you, Shirish.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Tejash Shah from Spark Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity and congrats on good set of numbers. First couple of questions on jewelry division and this may sound slightly basic, but bullion sales, how should we see? Is it a tactical tool which we use occasionally, or is it some sort of growth engine, not material one, but it helps us to deliver growth when we're required to?
No. It is more tactical and tactical sometimes to manage inventory levels. Sometimes there are markets in gold which creates opportunity where you can gain, you know, between a spot gold, et cetera, et cetera. It is much more tactical. I don't think that-
It's not a business engine.
That is why we always keep it out in all our communication to you guys. We always call it out. We never add it to our revenue because this is not something which we are looking at adding value to the business, just management of working capital and some of the other opportunities. That's it.
Sure. It is more of financial decision than business decision.
Inventory is of course business decision because they recall sometimes they did something, some auditing happens and then at that point of time it is financial decision whether to sell it back or what to do with that.
Sure. That's helpful. Second, on South India as a potential growth driver in terms of even in our presentation and even on our annual report we spoke about it at length. Just wanted to understand in terms of margins. In past we have seen that that market has not been very margin accretive. Has anything changed in terms of the consumer behavior there and even the approach to studded share. Has it changed in the recent past in terms of being more margin accretive than it was, let's say 10 years back?
Ajoy, you're right. The South markets have traditionally been more price sensitive and therefore margin, relatively lower margin, especially on gold as well as on the mix, studded being a lower proportion. That continues to be the case. There have been improvements in all the regions that we are driving in terms of margin delivery, you know, both through product mix as well as through AMCs and gold rates, et cetera, et cetera. That effort continues everywhere. There has not been any significant shift. Yes, we are pushing a little bit more on studded product mix, particularly in markets like Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh. Bangalore has always been good, but rest of Karnataka is much more of gold.
Yes, we are pushing a little bit through by virtue of our specific market interventions to help improve the mix. Other than that, it is not dramatic. It continues to lag behind the rest of the country.
Fair point. Thanks. The last one, in our analyst meet also we spoke about our ambition to drive more technology products in our wearable division and even in our annual report we spoke about it. I believe Hyderabad Development Center will actually further strengthen our capabilities on that side. Just wanted to understand what will be our range of products that we're targeting. Are we trying to get into in a big way headphones and other space also of consumer electronics and any immediate plan of launching some of those products?
For us right now the focus is on smartwatches. We've already launched 3 this year. There are 4 more lined up for launch later in August. We do have. These are doing very well, and we have launches from INR 3,000 all the way up to INR 10,000. That's really the wide space, the sweet spot where our wearables smartwatches are coming in. I had mentioned this even in the investor meet. In terms of other categories, hearables, which is audio accessories, we do have a couple of options right now. It's very high growth, you know, category. It's really exploding. A lot of the action is at below INR 2,000, INR 2,500.
We are again looking at a similar wide space between around INR 2,000-INR 5,000. Currently we have a couple of launches lined up for quarter three. The work that is going on in this space is really how our products are differentiated. Yes, the Hyderabad Development Center is going. There is a lot of work going on in terms of making that technology really translate to consumer benefits. There are consumer benefits like active noise cancellation or ANC. A lot of people do not understand and, you know, finally, the usage of hearables is, like I said, exploded.
you know, there are still a lot of consumer pain points, and our attempt will be that in the second half of this year we come out with products which are really consumer insight led and attempting to solve some of these consumer pain points.
Great. This last one, if I may. How do the margins track in wearables versus watches?
The margins are lower. For watches, we are, we've been the market leaders for more than three decades, and our entire value chain, the supply chain, the entire end-to-end process allows us, you know, the leadership position, so we can command a premium. In wearables, the category itself is a lower margin category. Right now we are playing for growth and really making our presence felt and our products accepted by consumers. So at this point there is a difference, and it will be there. It will continue like that.
You know, while the product margin is one aspect of it, given the nature of the explosive growth potential sitting in that, the scale leverage can help in actually delivering an attractive business margin, you know, down the road earlier than in some other category, where the product margin could be higher.
Got it. Thanks, and all the best to the team.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sheela Rathi from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you very much for taking my question. I had a couple of questions. The first question was, you know, very strong growth on the jewelry business, over 200%. Say if we excise the Akshaya Tritiya revenues for this particular quarter, because the base may not have that strong trend, so then, how does the growth look like on the jewelry business?
It continues to look very good. Akshaya Tritiya month of course gave us a good bumper kicker. Even if I look post Akshaya Tritiya, I think the numbers are pretty much comparable, so. That's because the growth of 200 and some % is on a disrupted quarter of last year. In a way, we cannot take this 200% beyond what it is.
It's FY 2020.
On FY 2020 is where we have seen 80% growth, which is the value growth that we are looking at. There I think Akshaya Tritiya or otherwise, the growth figures are pretty comparable. Going forward, we don't know whether those growth figures can sustain. We'll obviously have different levels. You can't take that as a baseline.
Absolutely. Ajoy, if you could call out in terms of what are the trends we are seeing in this 2Q quarter, month-on-month trends, and if you have any activations which are, you know, in place going into the festive season.
You're referring to quarter one itself, right?
The 2Q quarter. July month.
No, I think we are not commenting on July and this thing. However, like every year, we have our studded activation in quarter two. That has commenced in the middle of July. I'm sorry, I won't be able to share any update on the numbers there because of the new guidelines. We are no longer sharing the current month updates. But yes, like previous years, we have the studded activation, which is a big one. We will continue to you know, prepare well for the forthcoming season and we will do some collection launches, et cetera, which is typical of what we do.
Sheela, just to add, I think we are pretty satisfied, you know, with the July month performance so far. Of course, we will not quantify what it is.
Understood. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kunal Vora from Baroda BNP Paribas Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. First question is on diamond prices. Now, how high are they compared to last year, and should we expect any more benefit from this?
Diamond prices, we've had a series of price increases in line with, as we were procuring the diamonds. It's been a fairly volatile market and there has been significant upside actually on that volatility rather than downside. We took price increases in November, we took price increases in January, I mean, this is not, we're taking in bits and pieces, and then we took something in March because that's how the market has behaved. It continues to be quite a ride so far. I don't think prices are coming down in a hurry. There were some minor correction here and there, but it's back. It's supply led actually. We don't know. We might have to take some more price increases maybe by the end of the quarter if things continue to be like this.
It's a dynamic situation, and therefore I think we will probably continue to have some gains even in the next quarter besides this quarter. I have a feeling it will spill over into quarter three also, but exactly we can't say because it's a math that comes out at the end of the quarter.
Sure. Thanks for that. Second is the status of hallmarking in India now, and have you seen any market share gains, any structural changes because of this?
No, not very evident so far. I think what is happening is that the market is getting used to it. There is a certain cost of doing it, and there's a certain impact that maybe smaller jewelers might be facing because of the fact that now purity has to be kind of guaranteed. Really speaking, we are not seeing any structural impacts right now. It's too early to comment.
Sure. Just one last question. On jewelry, how are you looking at the remaining three quarters of the year? I mean, like last year, you might have had some benefit of pent-up demand in second quarter. Would you still say that 15%-20% kind of a growth on a year-on-year basis, that's something which you would went for or even higher than that is possible?
Even in our previous, five-year horizon and even the recent one in the investor thing, we had mentioned about, a 20% CAGR is something that we are, certainly wanting to push aggressively for. Pent-up demand or no, doesn't matter. The headroom for growth is huge, for us, and certainly there are some tailwinds on formalization. Our outlook on jewelry growth continues to remain very bullish, and we will pursue this quite ambitiously and aggressively.
You don't see the high base from last year as an issue. I mean, you think that even on that base, a 20% kind of plus kind of a number which you're looking at is still doable.
It's an opportunity. I would look at it as now we have so many more stores firing so well, all engines working well. Why not go for the accelerator?
That's it from my side. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management will be able to address questions from all participants, we would request you to please limit your question to two at a time. Should you have a follow-up question, please re-join the queue. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Latika Chopra from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Hello, everyone. Thank you for the opportunity. I had one question on the jewelry making charges. I want to check, you know, how often do you benchmark the making charges versus competition? I believe this will differ in each market. What kind of premium are you very comfortable, you know, keeping on making charges versus peers? Considering the new buyer growth has been fairly robust for you. Going forward, do you see any need to, you know, operate with the products with lower making charges as you know, venture into more markets? Any color on this?
Yeah. Thanks, Latika. Good question actually. We do keep benchmarking at least twice a year, sometimes thrice a year if so warranted. You are right, making charges vary significantly by product types as well as by markets and regions. It's a fairly complex exercise, and therefore, you know, we are not able to do it more than twice a year effectively. Having said that, you're spot on as we grow into smaller towns, and we are present in 237 towns, so 150 plus or 160 plus of them are really below 10 lakh and quite a few below 5 lakh population towns. We are keeping a watchful eye on making charges. You're right.
If you were to ask me, I think we need to do a lot more in the more affordable making charge segments, because that's what will really help us to keep the top of the funnel in terms of new buyers coming in at a healthy level, and those can, over a period of time, migrate into our system. It's spot on, and we need to do a lot more work there. Having said that, in terms of premiums, yes, we will be at a premium to the market, whichever the price band and whichever the product category. Because clearly we are investing a lot more in quality and finish and also responsible sourcing. All of those things customers are, and of course there is design, you know. All of these put together, the customer is certainly willing to pay a premium.
Yes, will she be willing to pay a huge premium on that? It has to be justifiable in her mind. I can't quantify the premiums that because it's a very complex subject. Yes, we will operate at a premium to the market, but at an acceptable premium.
Sure. No, that's very helpful. The second part that I wanted to understand is, you know, seeing these diamond prices moving up after a long time, I was just wanting to check, you know, what could be the contribution of pricing growth for diamond in diamond segment revenue growth? Have you seen any pullback from the consumer because of increase in diamond prices very substantial?
No, in terms of buyer growth at an overall level in studded we are not seeing any impact. Yes, there's a need to ensure that we don't vacate price points, and therefore we need to keep working hard to ensure even in the below ₹50,000 category, we have adequate price points of products. That's a dynamic situation. In terms of diamond price contribution, I don't have a number, but over quarter 1 of FY 2020, if I were to go back and say, surely there would be a 15%-20% impact purely on account of price increase in diamonds. I don't have an exact figure. This is a rough estimate.
No, this is helpful. Thank you so much, Ajoy.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Hasmukh from SUD Life. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Congrats on strong set of numbers. My question is for jewelry business. If I do some calculation on volume per store basis, I'm getting almost like a flat sort of a number on a CAGR basis over 10 years period prior to COVID. Is my understanding correct that during that period we haven't seen any sort of volume growth per store and SLG growth would have come only from the gold price change?
I'll tell you what. I think most of the expansions over a 10-year period have happened. In fact, I'll give you a statistic. In the last 5 years, we've added more than 100 towns. Okay? All these towns are in the sub-10 lakh population, and some of them in sub-5 lakh population towns. When you are adding so many stores, in 10 years we would have added, I don't know, maybe-
200.
200 towns.
Yes, sure.
200 stores and maybe 150 towns. Okay? Now you must recognize that these towns and these newer stores will not give you the same level of volume like the bigger ones. From a same-store buyer growth perspective, you're right, we have that as a metric and we keep an active track on that, not just on value, but also on buyer growth. We actually aggressively target same-store buyer growth at a store-to-store level in every city. Maybe when you do the averaging out over a ten-year period, I don't know what numbers it throws up. Maybe we can connect offline and understand better. Not able to comment on the specific outcomes we have seen in your analysis.
Understood. Thanks for that. That's it from me.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Devanshu Bansal from Emkay Global. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity and congrats on a great set of numbers. I just wanted to check on the recent customs duty increase. Do you also anticipate some inventory gains as you were having high level of inventory at FY 2022 end?
Devanshu, you know, while some sort of gain would flow in quarter two, quarter three, to my mind, but market has been reacting in different ways on different pricing competitive actions, and we will continue to respond to that. There will be certainly some amount of gain which will come in quarter two and quarter three.
Sure, sir. Can you quantify as in, some
Very difficult to quantify. We are still seeing after increase how the pricing actions are happening in the market, and we are reacting to that. It's very difficult to quantify. It's not going to be very material game changer in terms of margin optimization. It will be there, but not something very significant.
Devanshi, I'll add on to what Ashok said. Essentially, we are not seeing every player kind of, you know, price their gold accordingly all the time. It is different in different markets. From a pure competitive angle, we also are willing to play that game, if required, to ensure that we don't sacrifice on volume growth or customer determinants. Therefore, the ability to quantify it may be very, very difficult. It's an outcome that we'll have to see. Month to month we will track and then have a look at it. Maybe by the end of quarter two, we might have a better indication how it will be, but it's difficult to predict the numbers.
Sure, sir. That helps. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anush Mokashi from Yadnya Academy. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hello, sir. My question is around international business. Just wanted to understand how much of the sales has been coming from Dubai and USA till date.
How much of?
Sales. How much of the sales is coming from Dubai and USA?
We don't have any presence in the U.S., Himanshu. We don't have a presence in the U.S. yet. We have very aggressive plans for the GCC. We already have, if I recollect, three stores, and the fourth store is opening anytime now. We are ratcheting up the expansion plan in GCC, as well as planning more aggressively for the U.S. At the moment, the share of the international business is low, but in the next two to three years we see it galloping.
Okay. Just wanted to get a sense on the break-even period of how can we count this. What would be the break-even period for a Tanishq store in India versus in Dubai or maybe in USA, if you can give some color on that.
Actually, at a store level, because the scale economies are better in outside. At a store level, you know, the break-even will be as good. At a business level, we are looking at maybe third full year, fourth full year break-even at a business level.
Okay. Any exact numbers, sir, when in India, how much, India versus outside?
No, we have declared it a dream of INR 2,500 crores in the analyst conference for the international Tanishq business.
Any guidance on how many stores we are expecting to open in USA in FY 2023?
In FY2023, maybe 2 to 3.
2-3. We are committed to. I'm so sorry. I
Mostly two stores in FY 2023.
Okay. We are committed to opening roughly 20 stores, as discussed in, I think, Q3 concall in Dubai.
No, in international GCC.
International business.
No, no, international.
Okay. Got it. Okay.
Yeah.
I think that's it from my side, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is on the line of Gautam Rathi from CWC. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Will it be possible for you to quantify the international business revenue in absolute terms?
For the period?
For the quarter, yes.
Could be about INR 50 crore to my mind. INR 40 crore-INR 50 crore. INR 50 crore, yeah.
Okay.
Should be approximately.
The other business which has grown to INR 60 crores, this revenue is primarily driven by Taneira, right?
No, I think fragrances also did very well. Taneira, of course, have done well in terms of revenue. It is fragrances also which have done well.
Can you just quantify Taneira's revenue? Approximately what would be the quarter's revenue for Taneira?
I think you see Taneira is in a very, very rapid ramp-up phase. I think we will start disclosing them separately when, you know, they have.
Makes sense, yeah.
reached to a certain level, make sense to. At this point of time in our overall structure, they are still not yet to become meaningful to be disclosed. They are ramping up well. You would have seen they have opened 6 new stores in this quarter and next quarter again, they may have. We have declared, we had declared a INR 1,000 crore ambition.
Yes.
For Taneira, we will start disclosing numbers at an appropriate time. At this point of time, we are putting just as another segment. Okay?
No, I can understand. The 26 stores that you have in Taneira, they're all in company-owned models or are you also starting to franchise the same?
Hi, this is Ambuj. Now about more than 50% of the stores are franchisee stores.
More than 50% of the stores are franchisee stores?
Yes.
Wow. Okay. In there, the revenue is booked when you shift to the franchisee, right?
Not now. Not right now.
This is a consignment management agent, franchisee at the moment, Gautam. Sometime in the near future, we are also moving to a buy and sell model like, it is there in the other businesses. At that time, depending on the particular store, it'll be either immediate or later.
Sure. Thanks a lot.
I think we'll take a last question.
All right, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Siddhant Dand from Goodwill. Please go ahead.
Yeah, my question was on Taneira, but I think it got answered in the previous question.
Thank you.
Thank you, Siddhant. How are you doing?
I'm so sorry I muted him. Give me a moment there. I unmuted him. Sir, actually we have one question in queue. Would you like to take that before we close?
Yeah, sure. Sure.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prathmesh Agrawal from Varanium Capital. Please go ahead.
Congratulations on a very good set, sir. Could you give some color on the flow-through from fourth quarter to first quarter in terms of top line?
I didn't follow you. Can you clarify?
Did first quarter have some revenue which got slipped from the fourth quarter? January, February was kind of a COVID impacted month. Did we see like the first quarter have some impact from that fourth quarter?
No, we don't think so. It's an interesting question. I think a little bit of the wedding purchases may have got split between the two quarters. You know, we don't know exactly. We can't quantify it. Other than that, no. Because, you know, in quarter four of last year, it was a staggered activation period. Quarter one, we didn't have. The drivers of growth have been slightly different in both the quarters. Maybe on weddings a little bit here and there could have happened, but it's not significant, and frankly speaking, we won't be able to quantify also.
Okay, sir. That's helpful. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Mr. C. K. Venkataraman for closing comments.
Thank you very much, everyone, whoever is still connected. See you next quarter.
Thank you. On behalf of Titan Company Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.