Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the UFlex Limited Q4 FY24 results conference call, hosted by Dolat Capital. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on a touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sachin Bobade from Dolat Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Ishan. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of Dolat Capital, I welcome you all to the Q4 FY24 earnings conference call of UFlex Limited . Hope you all and your family members are staying safe and healthy. From the management side, we have with us Mr. Rajesh Bhatia, Group President of Finance and Accounts, and Chief Financial Officer, and Mr. Surjit Pal, Vice President, Investor Relations. Now, I hand the floor to the management for their opening remarks, and then we will have question and answer session. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Sachin. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us today for the Q4 and FY 2024 earnings conference call of UFlex Limited . We will start with a brief statement from Mr. Rajesh Bhatia, Group President and CFO, following which we will open the forum for the interactive question and answer session. Before we begin this call, I would like to quickly remind everybody that anything that we say during this call that refers to our outlook for the future is a forward-looking statement that must be taken in the context of the risks that we face. With this, I would now request Mr. Rajesh Bhatia, Group CFO, to make his opening remarks. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. Thank you, Surjit. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome all of you to the UFlex Q4 and fiscal year 2024 earnings conference call. Hope that you all had a chance to look at our earnings and the presentation we shared. I'll start by outlining some of the key highlights of the quarter. In hindsight, I think this is quite a positive performance in this quarter. We've seen about 8% volume growth led by you know a higher volumes in across all our business business segments. We have seen improvement in revenue and EBITDA. I'll call it Adjusted EBITDA because you know there is a lot of elements in Q4 as well as in FY 2024 on account of the currency fluctuations and all.
So, I think we, we'll have to, you know, sort of, keep that aside and look at the operational EBITDA assets. So this quarter, revenue growth was driven by the strong sales performance, growth in sales, as well as margins, and which is in both categories, films as well as the packaging business. Our revenues for the quarter grew by about 4.5% on a Q&Q basis, to close to about INR 3,497 crores and 3% year-on-year basis. And the volumes grew by 10.5% year-on-year and 6.8% quarter-on-quarter to about 157,850 MTPA.
The film business grew by 13.7% year-on-year on volumes, and 6.3% quarter-on-quarter. Our value-added packaging business, including flexible packaging, liquid packaging, holographic, witnessed a volume growth of 8.7% quarter-on-quarter and 1.5% on a year-on-year basis. The profitability improved about 6.9% on a quarter-to-quarter basis, and 6.3% on a year-on-year basis, and EBITDA margins also improved slightly. For the quarter, we had an EBITDA margin of 13% and EBITDA, normalized EBITDA of about INR 455 crores. Last quarter, we had an EBITDA of INR 426 crores. The domestic packaging film market still remains subdued in terms of the pricing.
The volumes are good, but the overcapacity has led to erosion of the selling prices as well as the margins. And even internationally, because of the excess capacity in India, there is an impact because, so, while there was already an impact of Europe reeling under the you know aftermath of the Ukraine war, energy prices going up, but the increased competition from India is also added to the pressure on the realizations over there. The businesses in terms of volumes are coming back, and as I said last time also, and Q4 bears the testimony to that. But still, I would say that pressure on the realization and margins is still prevalent over there.
Hopefully, with the rural demand now picking up, as we saw at the fag end of Q4 2024, there'll be a possibility of a volume growth, both in packaging films and, packaging, flexible packaging and aseptic packaging, as we enter into FY 2025. As we go into FY 2025, you know, one of the very important, milestone for us is that, you know, we've also developed a machine in the liquid packaging, which can do about 25,000 packs per minute. Earlier, per hour, sorry. Earlier, we had a machine which could do only 10,000 packs an hour, fill only about 10,000 cartons an hour. But now, you know, this machine, we are also, Drupa, which is currently going on in Germany, we've also demonstrated there.
So this will further lead to, as we are, you know, going to have a higher capacity of our aseptic packaging division later this year. I think this machine will further augment our volumes much from 7-12 billion packs, much faster, given its speed and the, you know, because the competition already had a machine, which could do a much higher number than 10,000 cartons per hour. So we've also now successfully launched our higher capacity machine for catering to the aseptic packaging customers. Overall, if we see the businesses in U.S., with that is North America as well as in Mexico markets, I think the Q4 was very good in terms of the, you know, the volume increase. Overall basis, I think we gained significantly in these two territories.
It's not only that, you know, these territories could be self-sufficient with their own production capabilities, but they also had to import to meet the increasing demand of the packaging films in the North America markets, which was done by exporting the material from India from Nigeria, and occasionally from other facilities also. So clearly, U.S. market size that we have captured is way beyond our manufacturing capability in that region. And so you know, this is supporting our other investments made in India and Nigeria, which would have otherwise you know, given the demand-supply mismatch in India, you know that comes very handy in terms of you know keeping your plant operations at a much higher level.
The Europe is also positive. In Europe, the production volumes in Poland and Hungary surged in Q4. Poland went up by about close to about 17%, and Hungary was about 60% on a year-on-year basis. No doubt that the Red Sea crisis has also helped us to get the volumes and the margins, you know, some higher margins this quarter. And, because, you know, again, because of the Red Sea, you have the consumer worried about the higher freight costs, you know, higher, longer time it takes for the consignment to reach from India or elsewhere into Europe and America.
So I think that's all is helping the local product, you know, producers to gain volumes as well as to, you know, have higher prices. As I had told earlier, that, you know, in Europe, we had a new contract for power purchase in Hungary as well as in Poland from first of January. So Q4, we have, we have been able to reduce our power costs in these two territories, and the impact could be as much as 40% versus, you know, what was prevailing before this new contract came into being. And this, this will take care of us in FY 2025 as well. And beyond that, you know, whatever is the market conditions, we will, we will do further power purchase based on that.
In terms of Africa business, the Nigeria also expanded. Capacity utilization is about 67%, in Q4, and we have captured a very large, more than 60% of market there. I think gradually we have a higher, much higher market share, given that, you know, as I had said that, you know, there was an additional duty imposed by virtue of which the imports had become costlier, and Nigeria has also seen a huge volatility in its currency. So the domestic buyers obviously are preferring to buy locally than to import, because they can order, just in time rather than, you know, at least a 90 days window for them to between ordering as well as receiving the material.
And the way the currency is behaving over there, I think, you know, there is going to be a much higher market share that we will capture in that market in the quarters to come. Again, you know, in this quarter, we were again hit by the currency devaluation in Nigeria and Egypt. Egypt devalued its currency from about 31 levels to about 48 levels, which led to about a 49% currency devaluation. And we had to have a currency devaluation impact of about INR 177 crore this quarter. Egypt had also devalued its currency in March of 2023 also, and which had led to a devaluation impact of INR 150 crore. And this year, again, in this quarter, we are having a INR 177 crore of impact.
Nigeria continues to devalue, you know, for the whole of FY 2024, they've been devaluing. So last quarter, again, they devalued from something somewhere around 900 to about 1,300 levels, which led to overall in the year, in the financial year 2024, their devaluation has been about 183%. And the overall devaluation on account of this is about under INR 871 crores, what we had to, you know, take in the, in the whole of the year. We've, in the during the year, we have, you know, set up new capacities. We've completed our PCR chips plant in Egypt, which has an installed capacity of 18,000 tons per annum. That was done in January.
We have also, on 31st of March, we've also commenced the Panipat PET chips resin facility. And later in the year, we'll also commission our same plant in Egypt as well, I think by the end of Q3. And we've commissioned CPP plant in Russia, which has an installed capacity of 18,000 tons. And later in the year, we'll also commission our CPP facility in Mexico as well, later in the year. So in the current year, I think we're looking at completing our PET chips resin facility in Egypt, our CPP film plant in Mexico, and our, you know, Asepto bottlenecking, which takes the production capability from 7 billion packs to about 12 billion packs a year.
Notably, in the current year, we have we've our sales volume in the aseptic packaging have been about 7.4 billion packs a year, which is more than our rated capacity of 7 billion packs. So, in that business, we continue to be impacted by the capacity constraints, so which in the next season, which begins from January, I think we will we'll be all up and running with the higher capacity and look to better throughput from that business, which will give us additional revenue as well as the profitability. On the debt basis, for as we had said, guided earlier, that the net debt will remain around INR 5,500.
The net debt as on 31st of March is about INR 5,569 crores. And the projects that we have commissioned already, you know, towards in Q4, as well as the projects that we're commissioning in FY 2025, I think we're very confident that, you know, these projects will give us an additional turnover, anything between, you know, INR 2,000-2,500 crores in FY 2025. And the margins also, you know, even if we take the margins in the current range for the various businesses, so obviously they'll add to the margins as well.
In India, in the last few days, there has been a positive impact in the bottom, BOPP film prices, and we've seen about a 9%-10% price increase across the industry, which will not only help the domestic markets, but will also help the overseas markets as the pressure of exports from India to Europe and America will go down to a certain extent. Because, you know, if your domestic prices are okay, the urge to export and, you know, the delays and the higher working capital involvement in exporting is taken care of. So we're expecting better prices in the pack, in the BOPP industry, in the FY 2025. And I think that would have a significant impact on our profitability in FY 2025.
Plus, coupled with the additional revenues and the profitability coming from some of the new projects that we've commissioned in FY 2024 and being commissioned in FY 2025, I think we can look at at least 15% top line growth and you know also EBITDA. And at a tax level you know because of the additional impact of depreciation and interest you know there there will be we'll have to figure that out. But definitely at an EBITDA level, there will be contribution. And if you look at this quarter at an operational EBITDA of INR 455 crores and last quarter EBITDA of INR 425-426 crores.
So if we kept, if we annualize these two numbers, so we are looking at about 1,800 crore INR of EBITDA from these business, from the existing setups, plus the new investments which came into being in Q4 and will be effective in next year. The top-line numbers going up by at least 15% and incremental EBITDA. So I think we should look at, you know, overall EBITDA in next, in the range of 2,000 crore INR plus in the next financial year.
For sure, and anything which, you know, sort of helps us get the better pricing on the packaging film side, I think that will be an add-on, you know, profitability that, you know, we at least hope that will come our way. So I think FY 2024 Q4 sets the tone for FY 2025, which is extremely, extremely positive, both on the volumes and the revenue side. Yes, the margins will also, you know, sort of start getting improved with the improved volumes and the improved revenues, for sure. And as I said, in India, we've already seen about a 9%-10% price hike for the BOPET films in the recent past.
And hopefully, that will get mirrored in the international markets, as well. And, with the better volumes, with the cost coming down per unit because of the, you know, the better volumes, I think we are, we sure that, you know, FY 2025, the overall financial performance will improve substantially, as compared to, you know, FY 2024, what we had. Thank you, gentlemen. That's what I had to, you know, say about the performance for this quarter. And, I'm happy to answer any, any information requirements or any, further clarifications you may want to, you know, seek. Thank you. Thank you, everybody.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. First question is from the line of Chirag Singhal from First Water Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. So there's a couple of questions from my end. First, what is the peak sales volume that we can expect on full ramp-up of our overseas plants? Because, you know, we have seen more than 100% capacity utilization in some of the plants, in the past, as well as right now, Hungary also, as per the PPT, is running at more than 100%. So peak sales volume, what should it be for the, overseas plants?
I think what we can look at is the better volumes coming from our plants. See, we in Nigeria, there is definitely scope. Then we have a scope in Mexico, India. I would say that, you know, just one second, I'm just opening the numbers. So Mexico, you know, we can do about we did about 54,000 tons. We can do about 62,000 tons, so 8,000 tons can come from there. Egypt, PET side, I think we are fine. In Poland, we can do about another 15,000 tons a year at the full, taking the full capacity. U.S. and Russia are operating at full capacity.
Hungary, we can do about another 10,000 tons a year, and Nigeria, we can do about another 15,000 tons a year. So 15,000 tons in Nigeria, another 11,000 tons in Hungary. Russia is all booked. U.S.A. is all booked. Poland, we can do about another 15,000 tons. Egypt, we can do about another 10,000 tons. Mexico, as I said, we can do about 8,000 tons more. Dubai is fine. India is we can do about another 15,000 tons. So total, 74,000 tons we can do more, which means that what we did in FY 2024 was 466,000, which is about 15% more output from the existing capacity, is that what we.
Okay. This does not include the CPP line of Russia, and you also mentioned-
They just come up.
Some more CPP line? Right.
So they just come up, no. So, those volumes will be on top of this.
Right. So, one in Russia, one CPP line in Russia, and you also mentioned one more CPP line, right, which you are expecting in this year?
Completely.
So that, that is in, which region?
That will be end of Q, Q2, somewhere.
Q2 of FY 2025.
Right.
That is expected in which region? Like, where are you setting up that line?
Mexico, I said.
Okay, so 36,000 will be incremental, it is over and above the 74,000 breakup that you just gave?
Yes.
Okay, understood. And, any timelines that you can give, especially on the Nigeria ramp up, like, by when you should see this?
Yeah, I think in about a quarter's time, because, you know, U.S. market continues to, you know, give us additional volumes. So those volumes, given that they have a capacity bottleneck today of 60,000 tons of capacity in Mexico and another 26,000 tons capacity in... Oh, sorry, 30,000 tons capacity in U.S.. So total capacity in that region is about 90,000 tons. And if we are doing on a consistent basis, 120,000 tons in that market, could be more also, we are looking at retargeting about 140,000 tons over there. So that deficit will have to be supplemented by Nigeria, India, and maybe Egypt.
Okay, understood. Any timelines that you can give? Nigeria, you were saying in a quarter's time, so by end of quarter two, are you suggesting that by end of quarter two, we should be at full utilization in Nigeria?
About, we are targeting about 80% from 67 to about 85%, because, you know, there are some constraints as well. So looking at those constraints, about 85% odd or so is what we targeting.
Okay. For the overall volumes, like 74,000 plus 36, so for this overall peak utilization, like, can you give some timelines, whether it is end of FY 2025 or by when do you see this full ramp up?
See, I think the only question which to my mind is today, one, is the India pricing, where, you know, I see that, you know, from the peak, we are utilizing less capacity, because the prices are not remunerative. So, you know, some of our old facilities where the costs are high, you know, there's no point in operating that. And so we running at a lower capacity, than what we have. So I think India will depend on the pricing. And, Poland is... Europe is dependent on the demand of the PET in the European markets, which has gone up, in this quarter.
So if you see Q4 for Poland is, on a year-on-year, on a quarter-on-quarter basis also, is up 26%-27%. So, versus the last quarter, the Poland production is up by about 27%. So it needs to go up again, to, you know... But on the full year basis, we were down by about 20% in Poland, versus the FY 2023. So there is still a substantial, you know, headroom there to take the numbers up. I think there will be, I think the pricing improvement in India and the European demand coming back are the two factors that will play out there.
I'll keep a tentative guess that you know we can probably achieve that by Q3 or Q4. All right.
Okay. Understood. Now coming to the, you know, the substantial power cost savings that you mentioned, because of the renewable energy tie-up in Dharwad. So can you quantify what were the savings in FY 2024, and on an annual basis, how much overall power cost savings can we expect to achieve?
I think we can expect to achieve about, I think 50% of the cost, or, sorry, 40% the savings we can expect over our power costs in Dharwad. So Dharwad, on an overall basis, I think about we can look at about 35 what growth savings, maybe little 35-40 crores annual savings in our power costs.
INR 35-40 crores annual savings, and they should start reflecting from the current fiscal?
Yeah. So the power supply hasn't started. We are expecting that somewhere in the month of June it will start.
Okay, got it. So my third question is on the CapEx guidance and estimated net debt. So, what are you guiding in terms of CapEx and estimated net debt for the current fiscal?
I think we'll take that in the current, in the next fiscal. Let's first complete some of these projects. I think we are at net, net of about 5,500 odd crores. We have scheduled repayments aggregating to about 1,000 crores in this year, plus the new debts coming from some of the investments which are underway. But on an overall basis, I think the net debt level should be about 6,000 odd crores.
INR 6,000 crore.
But I'll like to answer this more in a much better way in the next quarter. But I think on a net debt basis, we'll be about INR 6,000-odd crore.
Okay. And, CapEx guidance?
CapEx guidance, I'll give it to you in the next quarter.
Okay, got it. I'll join back in the queue.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to all participants you may press star and one to ask question. The next question is from the line of Kaushik Poddar from KB Capital Markets Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Will, will this year see the end of all capital CapEx?
I think largely you are right, yes. But you know, as you reach towards the end of your capacities, you know, you don't want to give away your market sort of share. And as we said that, you know, the films business as of now is. There is no expansion plan. There's nothing big that is really planned. But you know, once the markets come back, you know, you always look to ensure that you are there, you know, sort of dependent on those. You don't lose your market share in those markets. Like I said that today, what we are doing is we are transporting a lot of material from India and Africa into U.S. markets, where we have a deficit position.
Now, this deficit position, of course, you know, we don't have anything you know which is likely at any approval level and all that. But these are, being a business person, you know, if that production there is 90,000, and I can sell there 140,000 tons a year, I think on a long-term sustainable basis, it won't be possible for us to you know keep on meeting that demand from a far-flung area. So obviously, as and when those far-flung areas are able to sell in their preferred markets first, like we didn't make those plants in India or Nigeria to sell to U.S. markets. We made these plants there to sell to the local markets and the surrounding African countries as well.
Now, just because there is a you know sort of demand which is impacted elsewhere, we have this situation where U.S. is being fed from other sources, but at some point in time, I can't say maybe a year later, maybe two years later, there'll be definitely a case for the you know ramping up the capacity there so that you know you can meet that demand locally. And you know, all these things, again, the freight plays a very major role in some of all these. Now, all of a sudden, you know, the freight rates, like, you know, we were taking a lot of materials from Nigeria in Nigeria from China.
Now, in the last one month, the freight rates have tripled, from China to Nigeria. So, you know, end of the day, you know, while you can live with this small disruption here and there, but if they are on a consistent basis, then, you know, you look to ensure that, you know, you de-risk your business, to the extent possible. Now, obviously, if Nigeria is getting its materials at a much higher price, so it will have to sell to the U.S. at a higher cost as well. But, you know, the U.S. markets may not be able to afford, those costs just because, you know, the freight rates from China to Nigeria have, you know, sort of gone up.
So as I said that, you know, while these adjustments are possible with a player like us, who is a global player, multi-country presence and all that, you can do all that optimization. But in the long run, the endeavor is to serve the... Our motto has always been to serve the local markets. Otherwise, you know, like many others, we would have also set up capacities in India to serve European or American, American markets from here, and which many companies do. Obviously, they do.
But their risks to the business are much more than, you know, our risks in terms of the logistical challenges, in terms of the freight to those markets, in terms of the working capital deployment to those markets, because, you know, it takes at least 90 days cycle to get the material over there, and then you sell on the credit. So, you know, the credit can go up to 140, 150 days in some of those markets. So our business model has been pretty stable, you know, produce locally, sell locally and in the adjoining areas. So wherever these opportunities are there, like, you know, it's there in the American markets, North American markets.
Now, you know, as and when the situation will improve in India, in Nigeria and all that, I think there, there is a merit in terms of considering and investment, in the, in that region. I hope I'm clear. Hello? Hello.
Mr. Kaushik?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's clear.
Does it answer your question?
Yes.
Okay. So thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask question. The next question is from the line of Chirag Singhal from First Water Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the follow-up. So on the Asepto, what is your expected timeline to commissioning? And then after, what is the timeline that you're looking at to ramp up to 12 billion packs?
To 12 billion ramp up will happen somewhere in September or October at the latest. But, you know, by the time it happens, then it does not impact you much. You can stabilize because your season starts in January. So by January, if we are up and running at 12 billion packs a year, which we're going to ensure that that happens. So for the next season also, in FY 2025, we have one quarter where we'll be, we'll get the higher numbers. Now, whether we are team is able to sell today, they... This year they've sold 7.5 billion packs. Yes, they had a capacity bottleneck, because of which, you know, they, they probably wouldn't have, couldn't accept more orders than that.
Next year, I think, depending on the market, from our side, we'll have to, you know, in the first quarter itself, we'll have to go from, you know, 7.5- 12, but it might take a season more to, you know, to reach that level. All depends on the market, the demands. We developed substantial export markets. Even this year we exported about 40% of the output from India plant into the global markets. About 60% is what we sell locally, and about 40% is what we export.
Is there any margin difference between the exports and domestic sales?
Largely it's the same. In a long term, you know, sometimes because of the freight, it may vary to an extent, but largely, you know, it's, it evens out. 1 or 2% here and there, sometimes export is better or sometimes local is better. I think it depends on the market dynamics at a point in time.
On the midterm margin, like what were the margins for Asepto in FY 2024, and what are we guiding for the current fiscal?
Asepto will always remain 20%+ margin business.
Okay, so,
It's currently 20%+ , and it will remain at 20%+ always.
Understood. Coming to the forex loss, so what were the forex loss we have reported in FY 2024? So how much of that was cash loss and how much of it was notional loss?
So I think I would say, very large part of it, see, in Nigeria, if you make in India, if you make your balance sheet, you make it in rupees, no? So in Nigeria, like, if you make your balance sheet in local currency, in Naira, it's a healthy balance sheet. But the moment you convert from Naira to dollar and then from dollar to INR, so between these two currency, whatever is the translation effect, that is what it is, it is, it is showing here. I think a very small part is what can be attributed to be as, you know, because, you know, when you are converting, you are not only converting the year-end assets and liabilities, you are also converting your average sales for the year, your average purchases for the year and all that.
So all that is only notional because, you know, the transactions have happened, in the local currencies. So I think very insignificant portion is a, is a cash one. And, and, you know, the most of it is in the nature of the translation loss.
Got it. And a couple of clarifications. So you mentioned additional revenues of INR 2,000 crore-INR 2,500 crore from the existing facilities as well as the new commissioning in FY 2025. So this is at a consolidated level or you're just talking about overseas?
Sorry, it is at a console.
This is console level. Okay. And, you also mentioned about some power contracts that have gotten renewed with effect from first of January in Poland and Hungary.
Yeah.
Based on that, you are saying that the power cost has reduced by roughly 40%. Did I get that correctly?
Yeah, yeah, you are right. You are right.
Okay.
In Poland and-
So like, what is it, like, so what is the tenure of these agreements and how does it work? Are these like fixed power cost contracts or, how does it work?
So it's a mixture of both. There are certain things which are on spot basis, and there are certain things which we hedge on a quarter basis or two quarters. So I think FY 2025, we'll be through with this contract, and then next year, we'll have to, we'll have to again look at this. But, but if we see the trend in Europe now, I think, you know, the power prices are now stable, so they don't... You know, whatever, we saw huge fluctuations immediately after the Russia-Ukraine war, but thereafter, now everything is stable. And in respect of that period also, we got some help, you know, sort of from the government in the current financial year.
Okay, got it. Thanks a lot. That would be it from my end.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kaushik Poddar from KB Capital Markets Pvt. Ltd. Please go ahead.
Do you see any opportunity open in, opening up on the EPR that is-
I think while EPR is now mandatory, the effectiveness of this and how the seriousness comes into play and how it is implemented, I think, remains to be seen. You know, there was an stipulation earlier also that, you know, you have to burn, you know, the burning of all this in the cement plant boilers was allowed, and the people, everybody misused that. And, you know, it was only happening on the paper, and nothing actually was moving to those locations and all that. I hope that the stricter norms in terms of recyclability are put into place, and they are, you know, sort of, you know, monitored also accordingly. Only then, you know, obviously, the policy has all the right intentions in terms of creating more circularity.
It is possible to do that. We have demonstrated, you know, by putting up our own recycling facility. The purpose is to, you know, sort of, not actually look at that as a business, but more as a showcasing to the world that this mechanical recycling is possible. And that's what the EPR, new EPR policy of the government also promotes, the recycling. The biodegradability is also provided in that policy, but you know, that might take a slightly more time. But as I said that, you know, the intent about the policy behind the policy is good. The implementation is the key, and it starts with a certain percentage to begin with, and going up much higher in the later years.
So let's hope that, you know, how this pans out. In anticipation of that and in anticipation of the fact that, you know, that the recycling, recycled material has to be used, that is where we have set up the PCR plants in Mexico. India, we had, we had set up a small plant a few years ago, which had a capacity of about 9,600-odd tons. And in Mexico and Egypt now we have plants which, which have capacity of 15,000 tons and 18,000 tons.
So we are all expecting that, you know, with the regulations coming in and with the conscious level and the consumer asking for a recycled material, you know, these investments will, you know, give us the substantial inroad into the recycled tech markets. Of course, the BOPP recycling is still not on the anvil. But through MLP recycling is only that is possible, which we are today doing in our Jammu plant, in our Noida plant, and globally in our Poland plant, as well as in the Mexican plant. So we trying to do the bit on our part by investing in those capacities and, you know, with the anticipation that a self-regulation and a government-driven regulation will help drive, you know, sort of these businesses.
End of the day, if you ask us, do we have the intention to be big in this business? The answer is no. The answer for us is, you know, we want to be a leader in the biodegradable films business. Recycling, whether MLP or PCR, is just a way for us to take being a global leader in the BOPP film industry. You know, it's that, you know, we want to lead the market in that particular way. So, I think, let's see for the next couple of years as to how the regulations evolve, as well as the government-driven regulations comes into play. And definitely we will be... we are, you know, totally updated on the situation, talking to our customers and all that.
You will be surprised to know that even the very large companies, you know, given the cost arbitrage between the recycled material as well as the virgin material, you know, in the absence of regulation, they still try to save on some costs. While, you know, you may see that, you know, when they make media announcements, they have, you know, next five years, we have this, we have this. But still, you know, there is a hesitation to start even in a small way, given the additional costs that it involves today.
Sir, do I get you correctly when you say that it's not a big opportunity for you, this recycling part, only the biodegradable part is a big opportunity? Is that...? Did, did I-
Biodegradable is a big opportunity for us. So the recycling-
The recyclability is not a big opportunity for you?
Yes.
Okay. But why do you say that? I mean, because so much of the plastic wastes are getting generated, so why do you said it's not a big opportunity?
I think the opportunity is, you know, through the small and medium enterprises who will collect, get all these garbage. So, you know, you can't set up a big plant in Gujarat, where the waste comes from all of India, and then it is processed there. It's not going to happen like that.
Okay.
It's always recycling will have to be a very localized affair.
Okay.
You know, the local municipalities will bring the, you know, all the garbage to these sites, and then these sites will be, you know, these local sites will do that. Now, we don't want to do that into that. Our-
How does the biodegradability part give you a big opportunity?
So the biodegradability-
Even that very local also, isn't it? Collection and all those things.
So the biodegradability theory is, once the capability is different. So biodegradability is what? Today, like, Coke has an essence which is sent to all the bottling plants, whether they are owned by Coke or not. So it's like that. So, you know, you make, you know, these biodegradable enzymes in one or two markets, in India and globally, and then from there, you supply to the rest of the world.
Okay.
Now, the biodegradable, like, you know, the way India has done, it's both recycling or biodegradability, depending on the customer's choice-
Yeah.
Today. Because end of the day, you know, if you ask the large companies also, they are also not wanting to set up the recycling plants.
Okay.
So somebody else will have to do the recycling plants for them, so that, you know, they could be compliant with the new EPR rule. So if there are no, if there are not recycling capabilities that are coming up, then the only way for them to be compliant is to have the biodegradable films, which even if they are not collected, there is no obligation to collect them and process them and get you know presentation before the authority that you actually recycle this much and this much. So while recycling is a localized opportunity, the biodegradable is a centralized opportunity, whereby adding the enzymes when you're making the packaging films, you know, you are done with that stage and the companies, the brands do not have any further liability beyond that.
Okay. But this biodegradable thing will be part of the packaging itself, or once the packages get collected, you put a biodegradable enzyme or something?
When the films are manufactured, packaging film-
Okay.
is manufactured, at that time, only the enzyme is added.
Is added, okay.
So this film, when you will actually throw after eating, Lay's chips packet on the road, on the ground and all that, it will start biodegrading by itself.
Well, does the packaging cost?
I think the difference should be between 20%-25%. Hello?
The participant line got disconnected, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, as that was the last question, we now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. Thanks, everybody, for being on this call. And, I think, we are getting into FY 2025, as I said earlier, on the positivity created by the performance in FY 2024 Q4. And the projects that have got commissioned and that those are likely to get completed in FY 2025, adding to the additional revenues and profitability in FY 2025 and beyond. And, fingers crossed on, you know, margin improvement in the packaging films industry. The demand supply mismatches have to be taken care of because without that, you know, there is no possibility, much possibility of a price increase. In the COVID period, during the COVID period, people have spent, you know, INR 250 per kg on the, on the packaging films.
Today, when the price is INR 100, only, of course, the raw materials have also corrected. But then, you know, that's the kind of a delta that this world has seen, you know, post-COVID and during the COVID period, in the packaging films and their raw materials.
Thank you, Mr. Bhatia. So thank you also the participants once again. Ladies and gentlemen, for the engaging questions, we'll soon have the transcripts of this call on our website, www.uflexltd.com. We look forward to speak to you again in the coming quarters. Thank you, and have a great day.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. We thank the management for this call. On behalf of Dolat Capital Markets, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.