Hindustan Construction Company Limited (BOM:500185)
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Q4 24/25

May 8, 2025

Summary

Order backlog stands at INR 11,852 crore with a robust pipeline in urban infra and hydropower. FY margins improved due to settlements, while debt reduction and capital raises strengthen the balance sheet. Growth is expected to accelerate from FY 2027 as new orders materialize.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Good evening, everyone. Sandeep, am I audible? Can you please confirm me?

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Yes, you are audible. Please go ahead.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Okay. Thank you. I welcome you all in this quarterly result presentation. I am Rahul Shukla, Deputy CFO, HCC. Joining me are our senior management, Mr. Arjun Dhawan, our Vice Chairman, Mr. Jaspreet Bhullar, our MD and CEO, Mr. Girish Gangal, our CFO, and Mr. Santosh Rai, our Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head. Moving on to the next slide. A quick recap. HCC being a pioneer in infrastructure development and construction. Over last almost 100 years, we have completed over 4,000 km of highways, almost 400 km of tunneling. We have contributed to 60% of India's installed nuclear capacity and 26% of India's installed hydro capacity. As of end of this quarter, our order backlog stands INR 11,852 crores, which excludes L1 positions worth INR 3,513 crore, which will be materializing in subsequent quarters.

As you can see from the graph, our order book is well-diversified sector-wise as well as geographically, with transport leading the show in terms of sectors and Maharashtra being the highest one in terms of states of concentration. Performance for this quarter as well as the year. As you can see, for the financial year, we have achieved turnover of INR 4,800 crores, vis-à-vis INR 5,000 crore during last year. For this quarter, our turnover is INR 1,330 crores, vis-à-vis INR 1,429 crores last year. Our standalone PAT for the year is almost INR 85 crores, vis-à-vis INR 178 crores last year. For this quarter, PAT is INR 228 crores against INR 38.8 crore during FY 2024. Our EBITDA margin stands at 19.4% for the year, and for the quarter it's 31% vis-à-vis 13.6% for the complete year last year, and for Q4 last year it was 15%.

On a consolidated level, our turnover has been INR 5,600 crore for the financial year and INR 1,300 crore for Q4, vis-à-vis INR 7,000 crore in the last financial year and INR 1,700 crore for relevant quarter last year. Consolidated PAT is INR 112 crore for this financial year and INR 90 crore for the quarter, vis-à-vis INR 478 crore for entire year last year and INR 246 crore for the last quarter of last year. This year we have secured three projects amounting to INR 5,700 crore with HCC share of INR 3,471 crore. In addition to that, we are also lowest bidder in projects worth almost INR 4,000 crore with HCC share of INR 3,500 crore. We have submitted bids worth almost INR 31,000 crore for which bids are under evaluation, and we can expect outcomes in due course.

We have also received completion certificate for five projects, which is a significant feat for the financial year. For this quarter, in this quarter, we have repaid lender dues of INR 534 crore. As you are aware that it's an annual repayment that we have to make to lenders, so this has been done on a timely manner. In addition to this INR 534 crore, we have also prepaid entire exposure of a few banks amounting to INR 134 crore. This is an effort to accelerated de-leveraging that this is the way we had communicated previously also, and we will try to continue doing that. We have also completed settlement of one of our awards under Vivad se Vishwas II, and we are expecting cash flow of INR 250 crore by Q1, I mean, in this quarter.

We are also at advanced stage of settlement of certain large claims with our clients, which will improve our liquidity condition as well as profit margins going forward. As a significant development we have achieved, we have received investment grade rating from CARE Ratings. Now we are at BBB-, which will also enhance confidence of our lenders as well as investors. We have completed a INR 350 crore rights issue in April 2024, which was oversubscribed 2.5x , and a INR 600 crore of QIP was completed in December 2024. With regard to our HCC corporate guarantee reduction from 100% to 20% to the exposure of Prolific Resolution Private Limited, the SPV.

We had updated during last quarter that the lender consortium has in-principle approved this and the formal approval process from lenders is going on, and there has been quite good progress on that as well. On operations front, these are the projects where we have achieved commissioning. RAPP Unit 7 and 8. Integrated Nuclear Recycle Plant at Bhabha Atomic Research Centre Tarapur. Anji Khad Cable Stayed Bridge in J&K. Just to point out that this is first cable stayed bridge for railways and the tallest cable-stay bridge in India with a pylon height of 193 m. This is T49A tunnel in Jammu and Kashmir. This is a 12.7-km tunnel, which is second largest tunnel in India.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Very good.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

For railways, we have also commissioned Delhi Metro, DC-06 package, which is Janakpuri to Krishna Nagar station. We have contributed to all four phases of Delhi Metro with this. Some of the operation updates. You can see the beautiful picture of Coastal Road. All arms of the Mumbai, this project has been now completed. Tehri Pump Storage Scheme project. This is 1,000 MW PSP in Uttarakhand. We have synchronized unit five and six. Now in single cycle mode. Vishnugad Pipalkoti hydroelectric project, which is a 444 MW project that we are doing for THDC.

Here, HRT is being done by TBM, and we have done TBM mining of 5.8 km out of 12.1 km in length. Updates on Mumbai Metro Line 3. You can see pictures of stations and tunnels, almost significant completion. Trial run is in the progress. Some of this, you can see the results here. I'll just pause for a minute so that you can take a look. Standalone numbers. Consolidated numbers. These numbers I have already highlighted during previous slides. P&L standalone. Consolidated P&L. With this, the presentation comes to an end. Now we are open for questions.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

I request you to raise the hand so that I can allow you to talk. Mr. Jainam Jain, please, you may start, please.

Speaker 3

Good evening, management. Congratulations on the set of numbers. Sir, my first question is, how are we seeing the tender pipeline in this coming year, in FY 2026? Can you just elaborate? Can you just give a brief on that?

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Sorry, can you repeat the question?

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Can you please repeat the question? Sorry.

Speaker 3

Hello, am I audible right now?

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Yes.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

You are audible, but the voice is not that clear.

Speaker 3

Okay.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Can you please-

Speaker 3

Sir, my first question is, how are we seeing the tender pipeline in FY 2026?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Okay. Shall we answer that?

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Yeah. So, look, as Rahul explained, for this current point of time, we have bids worth INR 30,950 crores, which are under evaluation. As far as FY 2026 is concerned, we have identified a big pipeline of INR 54,000 crores, which we will be submitting during the course of the year.

Speaker 3

Are there any specific or larger projects in the INR 54,000 crores? Can you just give us a few names on that?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

So largely, I can tell you that largely the opportunities will be in the urban infrastructure space and hydropower space. These are the two spaces where I can say 75% of the bids would be concentrated. They would include major metro cities where the metros are coming up. Also, you know that India is focusing a lot on the green energy. So we will also see hydro bids, which would be in the range of some average, you can say, could be like INR 2,000, INR 2,500 crores, single opportunities.

Speaker 3

Okay, sir. What about the urban infra, is there any state specific to which we are seeing the tender pipeline?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

I can say when we say urban infrastructure, it is linked to the mobility, and they are mainly metro systems. There are some transport corridors. They are largely, you can say, are in Maharashtra, in Delhi. Some of them are in southern cities. There is no specific area. As you know, we are well diversified geographically also. But you can say 40%-50% of that is in the metro cities.

Speaker 3

Okay, sir. My second question is, when are we expected to receive the LOA for the projects in which we are L1?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

New Ganderbal is a hydropower job. It is in Jammu and Kashmir. Of course, the arrangement between the center and the state is taking some time. Also, I believe the current situation has added to the problem, but we expect that in next two to three months, this order should materialize as an order for us.

Speaker 3

All right, sir. That answers my question. Thank you so much and all the best.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Thank you. Chika Mehta, you may please unmute and start talking.

Speaker 5

Hi. Good evening. Am I audible?

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Yes. You go ahead, please.

Speaker 5

Hi. I'm, one, looking to understand what kind of growth we are eyeing at a revenue and a PAT level for FY 2026 and FY 2027. Secondly, trying to understand what plans we have on the debt side, if we have any internal targets as to how much to reduce our debt by in the coming financial year. Lastly, if you could just go into a bit of details to explain the difference between the standalone and the consolidated numbers, because as per what I understand, all our transactions with regards to our subsidiary were completed last quarter. We said the standalone and consolidated numbers would be quite similar. I'm just trying to understand that as well.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Yeah. I will address your first question with regard to growth. We have communicated earlier also during our previous presentation that, see, we are now in the phase of building our new order book in an accelerated manner. That is the target. But unfortunately, for last couple of years, we have been a little lagging in that front. We have achieved very rapid execution in the last three financial years. Our order book is not to the level which we would have expected it to be. As you have seen, almost INR 11,800 crore is the current order book. We would have liked it to be at least INR 20,000 crore. We have limited work front to execute these existing order books. Naturally, if you say immediately next year, what will be the turnover, we are not eyeing any growth in the next year.

We should try to maintain the level at which we are operating. However, the kind of order booking pipeline we have, once it materializes, which it has started showing results, we will start seeing accelerated execution in numbers FY 2027, FY 2028 onwards. Then achieving 30%, 40% kind of CAGR for next four to five years is not something that we cannot do. We can very conveniently do that. You can estimate that from our order bookings that you will see going forward. Do not want to put any number for short-term, one or two years, but long-term, yes, there is very clear visibility of growth.

Speaker 5

What we are saying is that INR 20,000 crore order book is our current target. Right? It is the first target we want to reach.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Yes, that is the first target that we have to reach there. Yes.

Speaker 5

Okay. If you could also explain on the debt side.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Yes. So, see, there are some regular repayments that we have to make to lenders.

We have been continuing to do that. So next financial year in March, when we make that repayment, our debt will come down to around INR 2,500 level.

Speaker 5

Again.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

However--

Speaker 5

Repeat, there was some disturbance.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Yeah. With that March 26 repayment, our debt level will come down to INR 2,500 crore level.

Speaker 5

Got it.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

There are some other ways of debt repayment that we are exploring. One of them is core BG transaction. Modalities we have explained in earlier calls as well. We are targeting that at least INR 500 crore- INR 600 crore of debt should be repaid through that mode. However, we cannot commit it today because lenders have to be convinced for issuing bank guarantees for that. But the dialogues are there with some of the lenders at advanced stage, and we will update you whenever things materialize. One of them I have already updated. We have prepaid INR 134 crore of some of the lender exposures, so that is through that and-

Speaker 5

Right

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

...going forward also, we will keep on going, and our goal is to prepay as much as possible and reduce our debt levels.

Speaker 5

Right. So one could look at it as even though you might maintain a flat growth for FY 2026, because your debt levels will reduce, there should be some interest saving and hence-

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Yes.

Speaker 5

Right? That would be the right way to see it.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Absolutely.

Speaker 5

Sir, lastly, if you could help me understand the differential between consolidated and standalone numbers, that would be very helpful.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

You would notice that there is not much difference in consolidated and standalone. Going forward, it will reduce very considerably. There was one major subsidiary, our Swiss subsidiary, which we have deconsolidated during last quarter. Those numbers were being consolidated for the last three quarters. You are seeing some difference between standalone and consolidated there. However, going forward, we only have one HCC Infrastructure which has got some minor number. There will not be much difference between the two numbers.

Speaker 5

Yes, sir. What is this differential again, the quarter for PAT difference that is being seen? That is because of what?

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Because of Steiner. We have sold Steiner, so that-

Speaker 5

But sir, Steiner would not be there in Q4. We sold it in Q3, right?

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Right. I am telling annual number, difference in annual number, consolidated numbers.

Speaker 5

Could you help me with just Q4 numbers? Because the PAT differential is significant.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Can you please specifically tell me which two numbers you are comparing right now?

Speaker 5

I am comparing Q4 2025 numbers, which is INR 228 crores for your standalone numbers, and I think INR 90 crore or INR 85 crores for your consolidated.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

As you must be aware, there is one subsidiary, Prolific Resolution Private Limited, in which we are holding 49% stake. There had been some loss incurred by that entity and 49%. That too is a fair valuation loss. There is no business in that entity.

Speaker 5

Okay.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Quarter- on -quarter, we keep on doing valuations, and whatever change in valuation is there, we keep on accounting. This is just an accounting entry. Since we are 49% stakeholder in that entity, with that proportion, it has come to console level and that is the difference that you are seeing there.

Speaker 5

Okay, so that is the only difference in your standalone and console.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Right.

Speaker 5

That too, it's just an accounting entry is what we are saying.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Correct.

Speaker 5

Okay.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Because that. Yeah.

Speaker 5

Okay. Sorry, sir, you were saying something.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Yeah. That entity is not really having any business apart from some claims and awards, which it is working for realizing. So it's a fair valuation which keeps on happening, and based on that, whatever number comes, that we have to consolidate.

Speaker 5

Okay, sir. Thank you. I will come back in the queue.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Saurav, you may please start.

Speaker 6

Yeah. Thank you. Good evening, everybody.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Good evening.

Speaker 6

I think over the last few years, we have raised considerable capital in form of rights or QIP, and we have strengthened the balance sheet considerably. But the order flow still does seem to be sluggish as compared to the peer or the competitors. One of the notable things is a newcomer company, Megha Engineering, got a major nuclear power project. While all this time we have been saying that HCC has expertise into this. I wanted to hear the narrative about what is our strategy for tapping work in the nuclear power field. Second, I would also appreciate if you can put some color on what is the impact of fallout of Indus Waters Treaty suspension. Do we see more hydropower projects coming to our kitty out of this?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Saurav, right?

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Yes, Saurav.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Yeah. Hi, Saurav. Santosh Rai here. Look, I think two things. First of all is the pace of the orders. I will say we have, of course, our previous year has not been up to our expectations. We have been able to manage order intake in terms of conversion of only INR 3,800 crore. Though still we have some relevant positions, and I can also say some of the bids which we have submitted where we are having good hopes, they are delayed. We are expecting those financial bid opening in this quarter. Hopefully, we can see some good news in this quarter is our expectation. That is one thing. Other than that, some newcomers and other players are coming and taking away some jobs.

That doesn't fizzle us so much because I think their philosophy of winning a bid and our philosophy of winning bids in our sector is very different. We are very properly pricing our risks. We are looking into the job in a very detailed way, and aligning them with our strengths. So, you are definitely watching that over last three years, how we have been growing operationally, how we are taking our turnovers to the right level, and that is by a good execution, and we want to maintain the same stand. We don't want to dilute our order book with risky jobs or something like that. So I think the two companies have, or two are what many other companies may have very different philosophy of taking up jobs.

What I can tell you, I think this year we will see considerable growth in our order book. As we have told you, we have around INR 31,000 crore of bids which are under evaluation. On the top of that, there are another INR 54,000 crore of jobs which are identified, and we are going to make a bid for that. So, it should be a good year for us.

Speaker 6

Okay. What is the impact of Indus Waters Treaty suspension? Do we see more orders coming on the hydropower side?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Well, look, I think Government of India already had plans to develop some hydropower projects in Kashmir, namely Sawalkot, Uri, and all this. So our expectation is that this may get expedited, and we will see couple of projects coming up maybe earlier than expected. Also, we are seeing a lot of hydro potential in Bhutan. You can see there are PSPs and there are other agreements getting signed in Bhutan by private players also. We have a very strong position in Bhutan. So that will be another very good market for us in hydropower sector.

Speaker 6

Thank you. Wish you all the good.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Thank you. Kunal Tokas, you may please start.

Speaker 7

Hello.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Yeah, Kunal. We can hear you. Go ahead.

Speaker 7

Hello. Am I audible?

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Yes.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Kunal, you are audible. Yes.

Speaker 7

Hello.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Kunal, you are audible.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Kunal, we can hear you. Please go ahead. Okay, then I am turning to Kenil. Kenil, you may please start.

Speaker 7

Sir, just wanted to know any future plans for fundraising, first of all, and I mean. Second question was, the central government has given funding for the Chennai Metro. When should we expect the bids to get tender and commercialized in coming days?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

I will answer the second question first. Chennai Metro, I still believe, the bids are at least You can see these bids in next financial year. Let me put it like that. Chennai Metro bids.

Speaker 7

Okay, understood. The Patna projects DC-05 and DC-06, should that open in coming months, or it will be delayed by four to five months more?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

I believe the owners are following the process of taking requisite permissions from the lending agency and the state government. That is in progress. We are also watching that. We are hopeful this should happen in a month's time, max.

Speaker 7

Okay, understood. Sir, one more question. Just wanted your guidance on the PSP project, as there has been lot of projects approved by the Government of India in last few months. Should we expect new orders apart from the private ones recently?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

I think so, yes, because we are seeing that there is definitely a traction in PSP, and this traction you will continue to see over next 5 to 10 years, is our expectation. Apart from private players like Tata and Adani Group and JSW Group, Torrent Group, other people, there is definitely government agencies like NHPC , THDC, they have made MOUs on some projects and on certain projects, things are moving pretty fast. So you will see a lot of development in PSP sectors.

Speaker 7

Understood. Thanks and congratulations for the great set of numbers after a long time.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Thank you.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Viraj, you may please start.

Speaker 8

Hi. Good to see things moving in the right direction. Aspirationally, when do you see a net debt to EBITDA of one term in the future? By which financial year?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Net debt to EBITDA?

Speaker 8

Right.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

I think it should take a couple of years, assuming the accelerated deleveraging that we are working on. In the next couple of years, I think we should be able to achieve that.

Speaker 8

Okay. Can you throw light on the recent order wins in partnership with Tata Projects? I think you had one or two back-to-back orders with them. What was the thought process behind bidding with Tata Projects? Was it because of a limitation in working capital or constraint at your end, or was there genuine synergy in terms of capability between the two companies?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

No. Look, I think HCC's philosophy of partnering on jobs always has been that both partners bring complementing capabilities on the job. I will say that is fundamental and that is how we get associated. Naturally, the two jobs what you have seen, where one is a pump storage project, another is a metro rail. Tata Group does have a good presence in metro rail system like we have, and I think we have brought some common synergies together. That is what made us to bid this job together with HCC being the leader in the joint venture. Another job also, I can say we looked upon what we bring together, and there were certain very deep values which Tata Projects is also bringing on the table with that project. So there is no working capital constraint or something because of which such partnerships are being made.

Speaker 8

Understood.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

We are completely capable to do them on our own. But definitely, when things allow us from a risk-sharing perspective and from a capability complementing situation, we look at these partnerships. And we may continue to do so in future with right partners.

Speaker 8

Understood. On Steiner, the subsidiary sale, it was a very complex deal and slightly difficult to understand what comes into the HCC kitty. Can you give us a sense of any earn-outs or proceeds that are expected over the next 12 months from that transaction?

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

We had explained the transaction during last meeting, and these are not immediate recovery that we are expecting here.

Speaker 8

Right.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

It will take some time. I think last time we had mentioned around 24 months- 36 months is something that we are expecting monies to start realizing, and it will come in stages.

Speaker 8

Right.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

We will keep on updating whenever there is recovery.

Speaker 8

Okay, great. My last point is just a suggestion. If we can release our results well in time before the earnings call. I mean, the numbers are coming out after the earnings call has begun, which is not particularly helpful. I think either we need to change the earnings call time or really endeavor to get the results out on the exchanges well before the call.

Arjun Dhawan
Vice Chairman, HCC

This is Arjun Dhawan. Look, I want to apologize to everybody for that personally. It was the quarter four and the fiscal year-end, and the presentation of our budget and strategy for next year, and the board meeting ran a little longer. We will ensure we build that cushion in next time.

Speaker 8

Thank you.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Ankita Shah, you may please start.

Speaker 10

What explains the margins of 31% this quarter versus 13% for last year?

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Ankita, as I mentioned, we have achieved some settlements during this quarter, which has brought some cost efficiencies. That's why there is improvement in margin.

Speaker 10

Can you quantify it, please?

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Almost INR 200 crore has been contributed in the margins by these settlements. Otherwise, it's in the same range, almost 14% EBITDA margin, which we maintain from the project. We are there, and balance is coming from settlement.

Speaker 10

Okay. What has been the recent fundraise utilized for? Because I see overall a debt reduction of INR 231 crore. I'm including long-term and short-term borrowings number. What has the funds been utilized for other than this repayment?

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

As we had declared during capital raise that the funds will be utilized for our working capital and growth as well as debt repayment. It has been done in a similar fashion. A part of it has been utilized for debt repayment and balance, like we are getting new orders and we'll continue to get new orders, some capital reserve has to be kept for growth purposes. It's in the same fashion the way we had declared during the time of fundraise.

Speaker 10

What is the size of the J&K order which is included in L1?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

No, there is.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

L1.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

No, including in the order.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Included in L1. So it's almost close to INR 800 crores.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

The total job is INR 1,200 crore and HCC share is INR 894 crore.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

INR 894 crore.

Speaker 10

So you've included INR 894 in L1 or INR 1,200 in L1?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

INR 894 only.

Speaker 10

Okay. Got it. Could you help me understand the loss or the face value loss that is recorded in Prolific, given that you mentioned that there is no business there is your claims and advances which are being put up there against the debt that is transferred to Prolific. So this reduction in face value is for the claims and advances that you've put up there, those-

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Yeah.

Speaker 10

...has been downward revised?

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

No, it's not downward revision, Ankita. See, the valuation is carried out by considering time value of money. Right. You have to make cash flow projections, then you have to apply discounting factor to arrive at a valuation. Now, depending upon how the recovery timeline is being modified and looked into, your valuation changes. So this time, during valuation, a conservative estimate has been taken that it is going to take a little longer to realize those cash flows. Recovery also, we have estimated slightly reduced recovery percentage to make it a little conservative. That is how this at discounted NPV basis, there is slight reduction in the fair market value.

Speaker 10

Could you help me with the numbers for this? I mean, what would be the current outstanding claims that are in favor of HCC, both in entity as well as in Prolific right now, outstanding status as on March end.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Outstanding status, I will broadly tell. For detail, we can discuss subsequently separately also. Broadly is, you must be aware, we had transferred almost INR 2,500 crores of awards and INR 4,000 crores of claims which are-

Speaker 10

Okay.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

...so it was INR 6,500. Currently, we have almost INR 6,000 because some of the claims got converted into awards like that. So currently, still there are almost INR 6,000 crores of claims plus awards. We have just revised

Speaker 10

Okay.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

-a little bit of their methodology of cash flow and discounting factor, which has resulted into valuation loss.

Speaker 10

Okay. And in standalone, similar number? Or in your HCC entity basically. HCC entity similar number?

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

No. See, here numbers are different because in HCC--

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

HCC we should have awards worth roughly closer to INR 5,000 crore and the claims could be, they are ongoing, so maybe INR 7,000-INR 8,000 crore. But they will not be visible in the balance sheet as such.

Speaker 10

Okay. I will take it separately then. Thank you.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Kunal Tokas, you want to ask questions because you could not hear.

Speaker 7

Can you hear me now?

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Yeah, we can hear you.

Speaker 7

I was not able to hear you earlier. Okay. So first question is that, you have talked about the guarantee reduction for PRPL to 20%. In the notice for your March 13th board meeting, you expect that it is conditional on you forwarding INR 400 crore to PRPL by raising INR 1,500 crore of equity in the next three years, of which INR 600 crore you have already done in the QIP, out of which INR 200 crore you have sent to PRPL. Is that information correct?

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

We have not sent to PRPL. It is parked with HCC and will be sent to PRPL once the CG reduction is actually implemented. We have achieved-

Speaker 7

The total amount-

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

...the board approval.

Speaker 7

Sorry. It will be in the form of an NCD that PRPL will issue to HCC. Is that correct?

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

No. We will infuse ICD. We will infuse it in the form of ICD, which will be recoverable from PRPL subsequently after lender recommends there.

Speaker 7

The total amount will be INR 400 crore.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Total will be INR 400 crore, INR 200 crore from this current capital raising, which we have completed, and INR 200 crore from the second one.

Speaker 7

Okay. The difference between consoling standalone numbers you attributed to fair value loss in PRPL. That loss from associate was INR 141 crore. All of that is attributable to PRPL?

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Right.

Speaker 7

You also said that INR 5,000 of awards HCC standalone has. Out of which, is it correct that around INR 3,000-INR 3,500 you have sort of realized through bank guarantee route?

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Correct.

Speaker 7

Remaining is INR 1,700 and something, out of which only INR 60-INR 700 is shown as long-term trade receivable on your balance sheet. The balance is not recognized?

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

No. See, Indian balance sheet consists of current portion and non-current portion. Correct?

Speaker 7

Yes.

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

Awards which are realized or could be realized within one year, it will be considered as a current portion, and beyond one year will be considered as a non-current portion. If you add both together, you will get to that number of INR 1,674, but you will not be able to get that number exactly by two line, because all these receivables, you will have some retention portion also, some other GST receivables also. This is the number, what you can take it as INR 1,674. However, you will not be able to get adding two line INR 1,674. You will get larger number. Adding current and non-current receivable.

Speaker 7

It is dependent on when you expect to realize the award or how long that award has been outstanding after being awarded in favor of HCC?

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

No. Once the award is published in favor of HCC as an arbitration award-

Speaker 7

Yes

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

...thereafter, the client has a process to file an appeal against Section 34 to High Court.

Speaker 7

Yes.

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

After Section 34 decision, it goes to Section 37, and thereafter it could go to even Supreme Court. So it takes five to seven years after award is published to realize actual cash therefrom. So till that time, it will remain in the balance sheet as receivable.

Speaker 7

Do you mark it to fair value? Do you recognize any provisions against that or no?

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

No. See, there's no need to do that because arbitration award carry interest from 12%-15%.

Speaker 7

Because PRPL will get it, right? That's why the-

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

No. You are mixing two different things. As far as HCC is accounting on real-time basis, the awards and the accrued interest. As far as PRPL or the Prolific is concerned, they're accounting that on a fair value basis because it is not their awards. They have only got a receivables from this award, or the money claim from this award as their asset. Correct? So they are doing a fair value assessment. Now, fair value assessment depends on various things. I'll not take much time for others also, but I'll explain in just two, three lines.

Wherever you do fair valuation for awards, naturally you'll have fair valuation based on the interest, what is embedded with that award. But for claim, you have to understand, based on your past experience, how much you are going to convert that claim into award and the related interest. This is further discounted or worked out on the basis of number of years it would take to realize that money. Thereafter, you apply a discounting rate to bring it to the current level of what is the cash value as on today.

Speaker 7

Present value.

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

Yeah. So because of all this adjustment, this is more of a fair value thing, not a real value thing like HCC. That's why you can't compare. It is not apple to apple. Okay? It is apple to oranges. So fair valuation is based on this moment, as I said, the discounting factor, the time taken to convert.

Speaker 7

Okay.

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

Arbitration separately, claim separately. So it's a little complex working. Yeah.

Speaker 7

I think I understand. Okay. In the board meeting I referred to earlier, you had also planned to consolidate all awards into a single subsidiary.

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

Correct.

Speaker 7

Against issuance of NCDs.

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

Correct.

Speaker 7

Is there any progress on that? And what's your thinking behind it? Do you want to monetize it or?

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

No. There are two different objective to this. First of all, we want to continue with our engineering and construction business or operation within HCC, and we have very specific energies for recovery of this award through parking into a separate company. Correct? The permission from shareholders through EGM has been obtained on 15th of March 2025.

However, since these are the assets are securities for lenders, we would need lenders' approval before transferring that to a separate company. Pending this lenders' approval, which should possibly happen in this quarter, thereafter, we will be able to transfer into a subsidiary, 100% subsidiary.

Speaker 7

That will also free up.

Arjun Dhawan
Vice Chairman, HCC

There are two other ancillary benefits. One is that we create the right incentives for the team that is actually chasing these awards in another OpCo. Then we also have the ability and the option to monetize these, settle these, and whatever cash flows that then come or the tax impact of that arises from that, ends up basically being limited to that company. Yes, obviously, it is a pass-through.

Any cash actually received will come to HCC immediately. So really from a value perspective, HCC is not actually being disassociated at all from even one rupee of these amounts. So it helps basically from an organization perspective, from a tax perspective. There is considerable savings on that front.

Just on the subsequent valuation that was just answered earlier. The SPV, as far as Prolific is concerned, or for that matter, even this SPV in the future will be concerned, we have assumed a very high and conservative discount rate. That is the purpose when you do a valuation, but it does not really change the value or the time value, or the equity value or the underlying equity value of what we have there. This is a theoretical analysis, and when you have a much, much higher discount rate used for future cash flows, then naturally that would basically, from an NPV perspective for the purposes of accounting, end up having a bit of a different basically outcome than it would be from a free cash flow perspective.

Speaker 7

Mm-hmm. Definitely. By sort of isolating all your non-operational parts into a subsidiary, it will also make the standalone balance sheet at least much clearer and transparent for investor representing only the operational existence.

Arjun Dhawan
Vice Chairman, HCC

No, absolutely. You are exactly right. The lumpiness would basically come out of there, and then obviously as we want to now have our quarterlies be entirely predictable from a growth EBITDA earnings perspective, we want to take some of the lumpiness of some of the legacy matters, basically out of that. When you see cash flow basically recovered from this in the future, they will come in a manner that is much, much easier to represent to you when we actually meet on a quarterly basis.

Speaker 7

Okay. Thank you very much. Have a good day.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Kenil, you have any additional questions, please? Okay, Viraj, if you have some additional questions, please may start.

Speaker 8

Sorry. Previously, we mentioned our order win or conversion rate for the orders we bid for.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Yeah.

Speaker 8

What is that percentage in the past? Has it been of the order of 20 odd percent?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Look, I think from the bids, what we submitted and what we won actually is high. But, for our guidance purpose, we would like to keep it at 15%. That's what we are looking at.

Speaker 8

15%.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Yeah. Because if you see, that's the volume what we have targeted for, and we expect around 15% range from there.

Speaker 8

These INR 30,000 crore orders that we bid for are primarily hydro, nuclear, those kinds of projects?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Largely hydro.

Speaker 8

Right.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

And urban infrastructure projects.

Speaker 8

Okay. Okay, thanks very much.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Thank you.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Sanjeev Damani, you may please start.

Speaker 12

Am I audible, sir?

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Yes. You may please go ahead.

Speaker 12

Thank you. Good evening to all. Sir, actually, only thing I would like to know is, what is the estimated amount of work that we will be executing during this quarter, that is April, May, and June? Any rough figure if you have in your mind?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

No, look, we cannot give such short-term forward-looking statement. We generally abstain from doing that. Sorry for this.

Speaker 12

Only thing is that, we have pending orders to be executed. Based on the work going on, some sort of estimate could be made anyway. Sir, any new project that we are starting from April based on the acquired order during the last year, or have we made any beginning from 4/1/2024 on any new project?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Yes. In fact, the three jobs which you are seeing which has been awarded, considerable mobilization activities have been completed, and works are going on at a good pace, I will say.

Speaker 12

When you say mobilizations means pre-preparation to start real execution. Am I right, sir?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Yes, you are right.

Speaker 12

Uh-huh. So actual execution has also started in some of the projects.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Uh-

Speaker 12

If you can mention them also.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

So, one of our bridge projects, there some execution activities have started. But on others, on our hydro job also, some basic site execution activities have started. But on our metro, we are in the beginning of a design phase. So naturally, we are doing the investigation activities and other-

Speaker 12

Okay. Because actually, I could not see the presentation and the results. Usually, you mention the pending order to be executed, which were approximately INR 12,000 crores in December.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Yes.

Speaker 12

What is the status today, sir, as on 31st March ?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

No, it was around INR 9,000 in December.

Speaker 12

Okay, sir.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Now it is INR 11,852 crores.

Speaker 12

That is including the new one. But if we segregate the new one, which we got started after December, can you kindly give some figure of pending orders?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

No-

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

See, as on December, we had outstanding orders of INR 9,700.

Speaker 12

Okay.

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

We got roughly INR 3,600 worth orders in this quarter, that is-

Speaker 12

Okay

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

...January to March.

Speaker 12

Okay.

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

However, we have executed also at least INR 1,300 crores of order during this quarter.

Speaker 12

Okay.

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

The net result is INR 11,800 outstanding as on March 31, 2024.

Speaker 12

Okay. Sir, if you can just give me estimate that, are we likely to achieve INR 2,000 crore turnover in this quarter? You completed-

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

I think-

Speaker 12

INR 1,300 crores last quarter.

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

Yeah. I think you can't hold me from the different side.

Speaker 12

Okay.

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

I told you I can't make any forward-making statement.

Speaker 12

Okay, sir. Thank you very much. Thank you, and all the best, sir.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Thank you.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Thank you. Any more questions, please raise your hands. Kunal. You may please go. Go ahead.

Speaker 7

One quick question.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Yeah.

Speaker 7

For next year, for example, we have a contingent receivable if Steiner does an IPO. Do we have any other receivables that might not be showing up on the balance sheet, but that can support liquidity and if you can just give a broad idea of the points then?

Girish Gangal
CFO, HCC

No, so there are no other receivables as such. But other than whatever we have declared, no contingent receivables. We have certain assets like there are land parcels, then there are awards which are not totally completely reflected in our books. So these kind of assets and things are there which can be realized subsequently.

Speaker 7

Okay. Thank you very much.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Harish Yadav, you may please start.

Speaker 13

Good evening, sir. Am I audible?

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Yes. Go ahead.

Speaker 13

Can you share some update on the BKC Bullet Train Railway Station?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Yes. Works are ongoing and almost 70% of excavation works have been completed.

Speaker 13

Okay.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

The base lab and other works are in progress.

Speaker 13

Okay.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Yeah. That's the status of the job right now.

Speaker 13

Because recently the railway ministry visited that site and some news was there in the paper, but that was not mentioned by you in the conference call. That's why I asked. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Thanks.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

No more hands raised. Okay. Jainam , you may please go ahead.

Speaker 3

Thank you for the opportunity. My question is, we are at roughly INR 3,500 crores of worth of project. First you mentioned is the hydro project of INR 900 crores, right? And what are the other projects in which we are L1? Actually, I don't have the details of that.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

The another one is an elevated corridor worth INR 2,700 crores.

Speaker 3

Okay. Is it a metro?

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

No, it's a road project. Road in the sense, it's an elevated bridge. Viaduct, you can say.

Speaker 3

Okay, then. Thank you.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Yeah. Thank you.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

No more hands are raised, so Rahul, you may please conclude the meeting.

Rahul Shukla
Deputy CFO, HCC

Okay, thank you so much. Thank you everyone for joining this call, and we look forward to connecting with you during next quarter. Okay, good night. Have a good night.

Santosh Rai
Chief Business Officer and Directors Business Head, HCC

Thank you, everyone.

Sandeep Sawant
General Manager of Corporate Communications and Head of Media Relations, HCC

Thank you.