Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Ion Exchange India Limited's Q1 FY 2024 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anuj Sonpal from Valorem Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Sonpal.
Thanks, Michelle. Good afternoon, everyone, and a very warm welcome to you all. My name is Anuj Sonpal from Valorem Advisors. We represent the investor relations of Ion Exchange India Limited. On behalf of the company, I'd like to thank you all for participating in the company's earnings call for the first quarter and financial year ended 2024.
Before we begin, let me mention a short cautionary statement. Some of the statements made in today's earnings call may be forward-looking in nature. Such forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ from those anticipated. Such statements are based on management's beliefs as well as assumptions made by and information currently available to management. Audiences are cautioned not to place any undue reliance on these forward-looking statements in making any investment decisions.
The purpose of today's earnings call is purely to educate and bring awareness about the company's fundamental business and financial quarter under review. Let me now introduce you to the management participating with us in today's earnings call and hand it over to them for opening remarks.
We firstly have with us Mr. Aankur Patni, Executive Director, Mr. Vasant Naik, Group Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Nandkumar Ranadive, Group Head of Financial Planning and Risk Management, and Mr. Milind Puranik, Company Secretary. Without any further delay, I request Mr. Vasant Naik to start with his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Anuj. Good afternoon, everybody. It is a pleasure to welcome you to the earnings conference call for the first quarter of the financial year 2024. For Q1 of financial year 2024, on a consolidated basis, the company reported an operating income of INR 4,792 million, an increase of 25% year-over-year. EBITDA was reported at INR 489 million, representing an increase of around 49% year-over-year.
The EBITDA margin stood at 10.2%, and net profit was INR 333 million, an increase of 22% year-over-year. While the PAT margin was in the region of 6.95%. For the engineering division, the revenue for the quarter was INR 2,871 million, an increase of 42% year-over-year. The EBIT for this segment was INR 149 million, an increase of around 84% year-over-year. The segment continues to witness steady order flow and a robust inquiry bank.
The execution of the UP Jal Nigam project is progressing satisfactorily, and revenue has been recognized based on work completion. Regarding the Sri Lanka order, the discussions continue amongst all the stakeholders, and we remain hopeful of the project closure in the current financial year, 2024.
Our total order books now stand at INR 33.5 billion, with a big book pipeline of around INR 86 billion. Coming to the chemical segment, the revenue for this quarter was INR 1,461 million, which was roughly at the same level as the previous year. The EBIT stood at INR 366 million, an increase by around 17% on a year-on-year basis. The segment continued to sustain the margin improvements against the backdrop of stability in the input cost and improved volumes of higher margin product lines.
In the consumer segment, the revenue for the quarter was INR 603 million, an increase of around 20% year-on-year. This segment continues to record healthy volume growth, reflecting increased penetration and product acceptance. In some other highlights, the company has completed the process of acquisition of 100% capital of MAPRIL in Portugal.
This acquisition will improve the reach of the company's products in the European market. The company's merger application in respect of three of its Indian subsidiary companies with the parent holding company have been filed with the competent authorities, and the same are under process. With this, I conclude the opening remarks, and we can now open the floor to the question and answer session.
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have the first question from the line of Chetan Vora from Abakkus Asset Manager LLP. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir.
Good afternoon.
Sir, I would like to understand your commentary on the engineering segment. What was the execution of UP this quarter, and how should it progress going ahead, and by when it has to be completed? First question was that. On the chemicals, though, there was no revenue growth, but margin seems to be on an uptick. Would like to understand your insights on that, sir, both on engineering and the chemicals.
Sure. I'll ask Vasant to give you the update on how much we have invoiced for UP and what's the gross invoicing for the engineering segment.
Right.
For the current quarter, the UP invoicing is around INR 39 crores.
INR 39 crores?
Yeah.
Which was last quarter, it was close to INR 90 crores, if I'm not wrong.
In the June quarter of last year, it was around INR 27 crores.
I was asking about the March quarter.
March quarter was around INR 70 crores.
Okay. March quarter was INR 70 crores. Okay. By when we will have to complete this?
We are expected to complete substantially the entire project by early next financial year.
Okay. Is it fair to assume that of the unexecuted order book of nearly about INR 925 crores, half of that will come into this year?
Well, we are looking at improving our execution during the coming quarters, and we are certainly hopeful that we will do a good amount of invoicing in the current year, and the balance will get executed in the next year.
Okay. For the full year, what kind of visibility we are seeing on the engineering front, sir?
For the full year, can you come again with that question?
I was asking, sir, for the full year, for the engineering segment, what kind of growth visibility we are looking at it?
The overall growth you are asking, right?
Yeah. Right.
Right. We are expecting that we should be doing a reasonable amount of growth, and the momentum of growth that we have seen till now should continue. Execution will pick pace in the next few quarters. On very broad terms, we hope to grow by roughly around 30%-35%. That's our estimate as of now. We will update it as we go forward.
Right. What was the order inflow for the quarter, sir, on the engineering front?
Vasant, can you fill me in on that?
The order inflow was around INR 187 crores.
Okay. The bid pipeline which is close to INR 8,600 crores, how much of that we are expecting to get it converted?
Well, that's a bit of an unknown quantity, Chetan, but we normally see that overall conversion rates are roughly around 20%. We think that the trend will more or less continue.
All right, sir. Last time while we were talking about, we are expecting some one, two large deals on the overseas front. Just would like to understand the progress on that front, sir.
No further change on that, Chetan. We remain hopeful and keep following up on that. While there are some incremental progress, but nothing has come through as yet.
All right. Sir, lastly, on the chemicals front, the revenue growth was flattish, and the margin improvement was quite positive. Would like to understand your comment on that part. How should one see this chemical segment, sir?
Well, we do expect to see an overall growth of around 10%-15% in the current year for the chemical segment. As far as the margin is concerned, while we have seen some improvements in margin, we think that it should roughly be incremental percentage of this improvement over the last full year's numbers.
Okay. Sir, what's the update on the greenfield expansion?
You mean the Roha project?
Right.
Right. We have started execution on the Roha project. The first quarter has seen Capex going to that particular facility. We are expecting to commence the operations from that plant in FY 2025-2026.
Okay. What will be the project cost?
The total Capex is in the region of around INR 400 crores.
Okay. All right. This will be totally funded by internal accruals?
No, we are funding it partly by internal accruals, and we are going in for external financing for this.
What would be the component for that?
What would be the?
Component of the external funding.
Vasant, can you fill me in on that, please?
We are roughly looking at 80/20. 80 is the external funding.
Okay. mainly you are saying INR 300 crores-INR 330 crores of that.
That's right. Over a period of two years of the project execution.
All right. sir, lastly, the other income which was lastly INR 18 crores, this year has come down to INR 10 crores. Can you elaborate the nature of it? The last year INR 18 crores was on account of what and INR 10 crores is what?
Well, the dip that you are seeing is primarily on account of foreign exchange variations. Last year, we had substantial amount of foreign exchange gain under that head. This year, the foreign exchange has moved the other way, and there are some foreign exchange losses which do not get accounted under other income.
Okay. Yeah. That is fine, sir. Thanks.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management will be able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, please rejoin the queue. Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Mahesh Bendre from LIC Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Sir, the chemical business was flat on YOY basis. What could be the reason, sir?
Normally, in the first quarter, we do see that the numbers are almost always softer than all the other quarters. We will see a pickup in the coming quarters, as we are expecting improvements to come through from the international market as well as from the domestic market.
Sure. Sir, if I heard correctly, we are expecting 30%-35% growth in the engineering business and 10%-15% growth in chemical business for the current year.
That's right.
Okay. Sir, last question, when do you think the Roha projects will get on, I mean, start delivering the products?
We are expecting that the Roha project will be operational in FY 2025-2026.
Okay. It will actually get reflected in FY 2026 numbers.
That's right.
Sure. Thank you so much, sir.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Akshat Mehta from Sameeksha Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Am I audible? Hello.
Yes, Akshat. Hello.
Thank you for the opportunity, sir. I just want to understand one thing that in this quarter as well, you've seen the hit on the margins in engineering segment. I understand that we are increasing capabilities and manpower, and that is why you can see that there's a big jump in your employee expenses. Can you throw some color on till when do we expect this number to remain elevated and then the margins to kind of normalize in the engineering segment?
Well, this is a phenomena which repeats itself almost every year.
Sure.
You would have seen that almost always the first quarter tends to have a lower margin. Compared to the first quarter of the previous year, I think there is a little bit of an improvement in the margin profile, and we are expecting that as the year progresses and the execution of the various orders picks up, we will see a corresponding improvement in the margins.
Any color, sir, on what margin are we expecting for the full year?
It should be somewhat in the range of what we saw for the full year last year. Maybe slight improvement, but we will comment more extensively on that as the year progresses.
Yes, sir. Secondly, sir, on the UP Jal Nigam project, I think Samrat asked this, but I just want to understand, are there any challenges that you're facing on execution of the UP Jal Nigam project? Because till now the execution has been very slow, and you are expecting it to pick up in the next three, four quarters. Any challenges that you are facing in terms of execution there?
Well, UP project, the invoicing has been slower than what we would have wanted. The delays which we are facing are procedural in nature. We will overcome that shortly and we certainly hope to do so, increase the invoicing substantially over the coming periods.
Okay, sir. Can you give a sense on the working capital numbers at the end of quarter one, if you can share that? Last year you said that at the end of quarter four, there was a big jump in your receivables. You said that is because you've done a lot of billing at the end of the year. Has that come down? If you can share some color or numbers on that.
Vasant, can you come in here please?
No, the working capital is largely in the same level as what we said in terms of number of days, what we saw in March end. As the engineering invoicing increases, there will be a slight increase in the working capital levels.
Okay. Has that come down from quarter four levels because last year was your big jump in your receivables compared to your previous year.
There has been a reduction in the receivables also, but there has been a reduction in the other liabilities also. In terms of number of days, I would say it is at the same level as March.
Okay. Okay, sir. Can you give some sense on how your order book is split between industrial, municipal, and then domestic, international at the moment?
International will be roughly around just under 20%.
Okay.
Mr. Mehta, are you done with your questions? Do you have any further questions?
No. I asked municipal and industrial as well, sir, if you can share that.
Not very clear. Akshat, can you come clearly on that part of the question?
Order book breakup between municipal and industrial projects as well, sir.
Okay. Industrial side is roughly 65%, because we're carrying a substantial amount of UP projects and the Sri Lankan project.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Koushik Mohan from Ashika Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. I hope I'm audible. Congratulations for numbers.
Sir, Mohan, sir. May we request you to kindly use your handset, please, to get a clear audio.
I'm audible now?
Yes, sir. Please proceed.
Yes. Congratulations for numbers, sir. My question is basically around chemical sector. Sir, on year-over-year, you have been on the same growth and when we look at it on the quarter-over-quarter rates, it hasn't been growing, but the margins has been expanded. Are you expecting the same kind of margin expansion and what kind of numbers that you'll be closing this year, or any ballpark number that you have it?
We responded to a previous question that we are expecting to see roughly around 10%-15% growth by the end of the year. As far as margins are concerned, yes, we continuously aspire to improve the overall profitability, and we do through various measures, including improving the product mix. We do hope that we will be able to continue the improvements in future also.
Sir, any specific number of growth that you are thinking on the chemical side that you would be closing the year with? Any growth number?
I told you right in the beginning that we are looking at around 10%-15% growth in the current year.
Okay. How about the consumer products, sir?
Consumer products is doing pretty well in terms of growth. We are investing substantially to make sure that it scales into the next level of growth, and we are very hopeful that we will see very robust growth on that segment.
How about becoming a bit positive in one year or any targets?
That's the hope and as of now, I do expect that by the end of the year, we should be in the positive.
Thanks, sir. I'll come back in the queue.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pratik Kothari from Unique Portfolio Managers. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir, and thank you. Sir, my first question on the engineering side, we are seeing one of the highest order books that our company has in the history. It seems that our plate is full in terms of execution that we have to do over the next maybe two or three years. In terms of when we are bidding for a new order, does it change anything in terms of the kind of projects that we are looking for, the kind of contract terms, the kind of work, et cetera?
No. Actually, we are working on quite a few interesting and exciting prospects as far as new orders and contracts are concerned. We hope that we will continue to scale past the previous numbers of the order book. I do expect that by the end of the year, we could be in a stronger position as compared to today. We continuously invest in our capabilities to reposition ourselves for future growth, therefore, the challenges of growth can be better addressed through better people, better systems, better infrastructure, that's where our orientation is as at now to ensure that the growth continues.
Correct. Sir, regarding your comment on the margins, last year, because you were investing a lot to kind of do this accelerated exhibition that we're supposed to do this year, our margins were subdued than what they were historically. Once this exhibition comes in, shouldn't the margins revert back to, say, maybe an FY 2022 or a FY 2021 level?
The margins will certainly become better than what you are seeing today as the quarters progress. I would wait for another quarter or so before I give you a very more accurate projections on what exactly the numbers that can be expected. I would certainly expect it to be better than what you are seeing it today.
Correct. Okay. Sir, on the chemical side, we have spoken about volumes increasing on the export side, et cetera. Just to get a sense in terms of on a broad basket level, how would have the realizations moved? If prices were INR 100 at the peak, where would that have settled now?
You're talking about realizations?
Correct. Yes.
One strategy that the company has been adopting over the past few years is to improve the overall product mix, that is helping us to improve the overall realization levels and also the margins. We will continue to aspire to do that. Yes, the realizations, if you factor in this change in product mix, is improved.
The reason I ask this is because, say, for the last two years, we have been in this INR 150 crore a quarter range on the chemical side. If realization and product mix has been improving all the while, that implies that maybe that volumes are not what it was, say maybe even two years back. This is in context of we putting up such a large capacity in the near future.
Well, we will continue to work on improving our overall product profile and certainly also look at substantial improvements in volume. The new project which is coming in would have benefits, not only in terms of the efficiency of production and the kind of products that we can manufacture, but also it would help us to improve our cost profile, which would further improve our competitiveness in the international market.
Correct. Sir, last question on this Portugal acquisition which we did. If you can highlight, do they give us some entry to new clients or is this some new products which they do?
It's a new market, primarily that was the core target that we are looking at establishing a marketing and manufacturing base in Europe. A European entity certainly provides us far better access into markets in and around the European region. We are also having a few new kinds of products which that particular entity was already manufacturing. Yes, a slight expansion in our product profile, but the significant advantage that we hope to have from this is the expansion of our reach and ability to service the customers.
Correct. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mahesh Agrawal from Agrawal Family Office. Please go ahead.
Hi, Aankur and team. Can you hear me?
Yes, going okay.
Hi. Congrats again on a good set of numbers.
Thank you.
The first thing I just wanted to understand, on the EPC side, if you look on consolidated versus standalone, our consolidated revenues are higher than standalone. The EBIT on consolidated is lower than standalone. Is that just some accounting thing or are there actually something going on with some of the subsidiaries where there was losses in the EPC segments?
In the engineering segment, there are a couple of subsidiaries, the Indian subsidiaries, which typically start generating positive numbers after a certain scale is reached. That would happen towards the later part of the year. As of now, there are a couple which were showing negative margins.
Understood. Got it. Last year, if I remember, we discussed the market opportunity in terms of setting up wastewater treatment plants, both on the municipal industrial side, was seeming quite strong. Does it seem like that has slowed down a bit this year in terms of the order inflow and also the market outlook? Based on the number of orders we were getting sort of larger orders, it seems this year things might be a bit cooler.
We are looking at quite a few prospects, which I certainly hope that we will be able to get. On the industrial front in general, we are not really seeing any slowdown, anything remarkable there. As far as the municipal side is concerned, there are state specific trends which would be seen. Our aspiration is not to get into all and sundry in the municipal market. I've been repeating it very often that we would like to remain very choosy as to which contracts we pick up and under what circumstances.
Makes sense. Got it. Thanks. My second question is about MAPRIL, the Portugal subsidiary that we sort of acquired last quarter. I was trying to take a look at the website, and it seems the business is a mix of distribution and manufacturing, if I understood correctly. Could you help us sort of understand what is the distribution proportion and what is the manufacturing? Maybe also if you can share some numbers on, if I remember correctly, I think the revenue was around INR 70 crore-INR 80 crore of that company that you all had shared.
Yes. The revenue of that entity is roughly in the range of EUR 10 million, and we are hoping to expand that revenue. We are going to make sure that we reach out to their existing customers as well as improve the reach using the advantage of our branding and our products. As we delve into the company's operations a little bit more and capitalize and leverage its capabilities, I'm sure these numbers would rise substantially.
Understood. The 10%-15% that you're sharing on the chemicals growth, is that including the INR 80 crore that will now fold into our chemical segment or that will be on top of that?
No, that would be additional.
Understood. Sorry, just the nature of that business, how much of it is distribution versus manufacturing? Kind of in manufacturing, what are the products largely that they are into?
The product profile is close to what we have. There are a few additional process chemicals which they manufacture, which go into textile industry, which go into paper industry and some other related industries. Apart from that, they were also doing water treatment chemicals. As I mentioned, that we will be expanding that product range by supplying from our Indian operations.
Got it. Is that full INR 80 crores manufacturing for them?
No, it's not entirely manufacturing, but there is a significant amount included there.
Understood. Got it. Lastly, if I could just ask you on the chemical segment, if you can just kind of share a perspective on sort of how the resins, water treatment, specialty chemicals categories are doing both domestically and globally. Because it does seem like maybe there also we are seeing some cooldown this year versus last year.
Well, it's a very wide bucket of chemicals that we do, very broadly it can be divided into water treatment chemicals and process chemicals. Within the water treatment chemical bucket, there are many products, you can certainly go to our website and check it out. There's quite a detailed listing of the kind of products and the applications.
Besides the pure play water treatment chemicals, we also do process chemicals, which go into, for example, the paper industry, the textile industry, ceramics, oil and gas, sugar industry. There are multiple industries where the chemistry of the products which we manufacture allows us to cater not only to water, but also to some of the process requirements. Likewise, the resins which we manufacture can be applied for the sake of water treatment, but also in other applications, including pharma, which we have been talking about in the past.
Got it. Thank you. I'll come back in the queue. Good luck.
Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sanjay Kumar from ithought PMS. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity.
Sure.
Sir, Lanxess has talked about Lehman Brothers-like situation due to demand weakness. Does this apply to Lewatit brand of Lanxess, which is, I think, our direct competitor?
You said Lanxess has talked about I missed a couple of words in between.
Lehman Brothers-like situation. A recession kind of situation.
Lehman Brothers-like situation. Okay.
Due to demand weakness.
Well, I can't comment on that, whether a Lehman Brothers-like situation is on the horizon. Yes, on a very broad level, the markets in North America and Europe have certainly been constrained because of the overall economic and geopolitical scenario. We have remained hopeful that the situation would start to come back to normal soon. If and when that happens, the market should start showing signs of recovery pretty soon.
Okay. Our capacity wouldn't be coming online at the wrong time. You think by FY 2026, demand would have recovered. If that's the case, if the global players see a downturn, can you look at acquiring any other companies that will be impacted by this demand weakness? MAPRIL looks like a good acquisition, but any other company at a larger scale, maybe.
Well, we remain open to such opportunities and, in fact, quite actively on the lookout. If and when something comes at the right value and is a good fit, we certainly evaluate that.
Okay, perfect. Second on the raw material backward integration. The top raw material for us seems to be styrene, which I think we buy from [15] and we are now sitting there. Which chemical are we, or which raw material are we putting the backward integration for? Is it sulfuric acid or sulfonic acid? I am not familiar with the names, so if you could help us with the name of the raw material for which we will be putting a backward integration.
Well, I can't give out that detail to you right now. The additional facility that we are creating in Roha would certainly help on multiple fronts, including improving our cost profile. We will certainly come out with more details at an appropriate time. Unfortunately, I would not be able to disclose those details right now.
Okay. Can we not be cost competitive just with scale, or do we need this raw material backward integration to compete with the global players? Right now, what would be our differentiators between us and, say, for example, Lanxess price difference?
We will be at a substantially better position. As of now, based on our current understanding, we will probably be one of the first who would come up with the innovation that we are talking about.
Perfect. Finally, on the engineering piece. U.S. is spending on industrialization. Even we earlier spoke about it. Are we planning to look at U.S.? Do we have a team there?
Yes. U.S. is a market which we currently aren't, but largely it's our chemicals which are supplied to the North American market. We have some feet on the ground there. We will expand our presence as and when we feel that it provides us adequate opportunity for the engineering space as well.
Okay. The big pipeline of INR 8,600 crores, can you give the geography-wise breakup for this, please, sir?
No, we don't give out a very detailed breakup of the geography. I can tell you that the major markets that we look at are the Middle East, that's the Asian, Middle East Asia. We talk about South and Southeast Asia along with Africa. That would be the biggest of the markets.
Okay. Thank you. That's it from my side.
Thank you.
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Suhas Naik from Creda. Please go ahead. Mr. Naik, I have unmuted your line.
Hello.
Yes, sir.
Hello.
Please proceed.
Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity, and congratulations on a good set of numbers.
Thank you.
I have one question directly related to the consumers business. We have reached an INR 60 crore kind of a number now. How you see this business getting scaled up, say, in the next two, three years? What is our plan in this business?
We hope to grow in multiples during the next two to three years. We have been able to grow at a good pace in the recent quarters. Our expectation is that the growth momentum will be pretty good in the current year and the year to come as well.
What kind of number margins, we can, one can expect actually, or margin improvements as we scale up?
As of now, the segment is in growth mode. There's a lot of investment which is being put in to continuously scale up the operations further.
Yeah.
Whatever the business is being able to generate on a gross level is being reinvested in the business. You are seeing a continuous trend of increasing overheads but a bottom line which is not coming out positive. I do hope that very shortly we will reach a stage where we would be in the black, and thereafter the growth in margins should be at a very good pace because on a gross level, the products make very good margins.
Okay. One question on the chemical side. I think you have been quite hopeful about the technology that you have got in the chemical side for the new plant, which according to you can reduce your overheads and cost of production substantially. Is it some patented kind of a technology? If I can ask, what is it actually?
We can't give out the details of technology, unfortunately. As and when we come out with the plant is constructed and we start reaching out into the market, we will certainly offer more details.
Okay.
It is more to do with, as we were speaking some time back, some nature of backward integration.
Yeah.
It's an innovative approach, which as I said, I think there is nobody else who is doing it.
It's a unique kind of technology we are talking right now.
That's right.
Great. This current upturn that we are seeing on the engineering side, how long you think this next year? What is the kind of visibility you have, three years, four years, in terms of sustaining this 25%-30% growth rate? Because you are the best judge of the market conditions. That's why I'm asking.
Well, my guess is that we should be doing very well on a sustained basis over a long term. The market opportunities, both on the infrastructure type of jobs as well as for the industrial type of jobs, are quite good. As a country, we are in a phase of deliberate expansion of manufacturing capabilities.
Right.
Even on the international front, there are multiple countries and geographies which are evolving towards a much higher level of maturity as far as their manufacturing industry and practices are concerned.
I certainly expect that we will be able to see a lot of growth in coming years. We continue to invest substantially in our capabilities. We have been adding manpower and changing manpower at very senior level. In coming time, we would see changes at the senior-most level also. We are certainly preparing to position ourselves for far greater growth in the future.
Great. The last question, if I can. It's about the margins because as you're saying, we are heading towards breaking even in the chemical side, when you're talking about growing the engineering by about 30%-35% and getting a good operating leverage out of it. Also consumers business, as you said, will spring back and will move towards at least neutral position soon. Given all this, is your guidance regarding margins of 13%-14%, can we call it a bit conservative or what is it?
Well, till we reach a stage where we can very definitely talk about the improvements from the levels which we have discussed, I would like to remain conservative. It's easy to start talking about bigger numbers, but it's better to deliver those numbers rather than just talk about it.
Got it, sir. Thank you. Thanks a lot. All the best, sir.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shaket Kapoor from Kapoor Company. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Namaskar, Patni ji.
Namaskar.
Yes, sir. Sir, for this innovation part of the story, sir, if you could dwell something more. I missed your comment. You did mention twice. When we are speaking about this innovative product and the innovation part, first time technologies, what are we trying to explain, in what way?
Well, I talked about two things. One is that I would not be able to share too much detail about it because, obviously we don't want to start mentioning things which could put us at a competitive disadvantage. The other aspect was that we are looking at innovation across the board. We are looking at a better product profile, which provides more value addition as well as which we can offer at better terms and margins.
We are also looking at the needs and requirements of customers across the board for both engineering and chemical segment, which allows us to keep innovating our products so that we can meet their requirements better. This is happening not just in the Indian market. We are also doing it in the international markets on a continuous basis.
Apart from both engineering and chemical segment, there is a lot of innovation happening in the consumer segment. We are launching new products almost every quarter, and the response from the customer is extremely good. That is also one of the reasons why you are seeing the top line of the consumer segment improve substantially.
Right. Sir, although you mentioned that for the year, when we will be closing the year, we will be in a position that we will be having the highest order booking. That is what you are anticipating as per the bid pipeline also. Has our hit ratio improved significantly now? Is it improved significantly? I think earlier it was 10%-15% of the orders we used to bid for. What gives you the confidence? If you could give us some more color, my last question on the UP project.
Well, we are hoping to end the year at a higher order book than what we currently are at. Our traditional hit ratio or conversion ratio would be in the region of around 15% or 15%-20%. That's the anticipation going forward. We are looking at quite a few prospects, which are close to finalization, and very hopeful that we will be able to declare much better order book in the coming quarters.
Sir, when we look, especially mention about the UP and the Delhi Jal Nigam, the outstanding order book is INR 925 crore. Sir, if you could give some more color. Firstly, what is the exact scope of work here, and what was the total size of the project, and how is the execution scale currently, sir? Are there more such orders in the pipeline in the ecosystem, or the UP government has done with the tendering of the same?
Well, there are quite a few such contracts which have been given out by the UP government, as it strives to achieve its target of reaching out to each and every household with tap water. We are servicing one part of that entire project. As far as the overall project size and how much we have done and how much we have still to do, I'll ask Vasant to come in and fill in that data.
Okay, sir. Still, sir, they are in the tendering process? My understanding was as for the Har Ghar Nal Se Jal scheme work, as you mentioned. Is the tendering process? I have also read about another company in the OFC space having an EPC vertical. They were awarded an order of INR 5,000 crore current connecting, I think, to 5,000 villages.
I think you are very well aware. Just wanted to understand the size, the landscape of still the scope of work left there, and also how is the execution in the entire ecosystem picking up. As you told that you have got a part of the project, the entire ecosystem needs to move to reach some milestone, and hence the payments and other terms get fulfilled for EPC players. How-
The payments for these contracts are quite widely spread because it's not one single connection that you are providing. Each and every village or community that is reached out to is covered under a different project report and has its independent project execution cycle. It's not just one payment milestone that you adhere to.
Each of these effectively act as individual payment schedules. We are getting paid according to what we have been invoicing over a period of time. The overall project scope constitutes, you have to basically ensure that the water which is available is either you source the water, or if the source is provided, then you use that water, then you treat it, and thereafter you store and distribute it.
That's broadly in very layman's terms, and that's what is the scope of the project. Each of these communities or villages that we are addressing would go on parallelly, depending upon when the government releases the project report and when it approves the individual execution cycles.
Thank you. Mr. Kapoor, we would request you to kindly rejoin the queue. Thank you. We'll take the next question from the line of Devang Patel from Sameeksha Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. I wanted to understand what kind of order inflows are we targeting for this fiscal year. We've seen earlier we got a few lumpy orders on the industrial side. Again, are we looking at those kind of lumpy orders? The next set of large orders, will they be higher in size than our previous orders?
I would desist from giving you very exact numbers here. On very broad terms, respond on a few of the questions. Yes, we are expecting sizable orders. Some of them would be quite large. Whether they would be larger than the ones which we have previously received, well, it remains to be seen because they have not yet been awarded, and we are still in discussions.
They could be. Whether we will look at substantial number of such very large orders, probably the numbers would not be very large, and we are looking at a few of them. There would be many more medium-sized and smaller orders, which are currently under discussion, which would also materialize. Overall, we should be, as I mentioned earlier, we hope to end the year at an order book which is higher than what we have seen earlier.
Sir, if you could help us with what is our medium-term growth aspiration in the engineering segment?
We did mention that we are hoping to achieve around 30%-35% growth in the current year. Over an extended period of time, based on the overall economic environment and the industrial growth which we are expecting in India and also in a good part of the developing world, I would expect that the momentum of capital addition, which will sustain itself over the foreseeable 10 years or 15 years, and hence it provides us good opportunity to continue growing at a good pace.
Okay. Sir, in the chemical segment, based on our current capacity before the greenfield plant comes in, what is the peak revenue we can achieve?
Sorry, I couldn't hear your question very clearly.
In our chemicals business, what is the peak revenue we can achieve from current capacities?
Well, we are moving at roughly around 70% capacity utilization at the moment. I would expect that using the existing capacities, we should be able to add another 50% quite easily. However, the growth that we are expecting once the new resin facility becomes fully operational will probably be a step growth, because we will start reaching out the market with improved product profile as well as cost profile, which may be more competitive than what it is today.
Thank you. Mr. Patel, we would request you to kindly rejoin the queue. There are several other participants who are waiting for their turn. We take the next question from the line of Dipen Shah, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you very much for the opportunity and congratulations on a good set of numbers.
Thank you.
Most of the questions have been answered. Just a slightly longer-term question. On the engineering side, what would be the newer areas which we could be targeting over the next three to five years? Probably any visibility which you have on any one of them. Last year or maybe a couple of quarters back, we had spoken about the hydrogen space. Any other areas which you think are potential candidates for us to target? Thank you so much.
Well, we keep evaluating every single new industry which comes up, or if there is a substantial change in the dynamics of any particular industry. As we are looking at aspirational India, which wants to manufacture more and more of its products domestically, I do expect that many more industries would go towards higher capacities and utilizations, and there will be some more industries which are traditionally not based out of the country, which should be looking at establishing base and expanding base in India.
We'll continue to look at these. All industries which require high precision or high quality generally would have a requirement of very high quality of water and would provide opportunity for us to service them. Even if the sizes are not very large, but the values do tend to be interesting because of the quality requirements.
Like we saw in the case of electronics, or we saw in the case of hydrogen, or we saw in the case of solar power. Each one of these industries, when they do come in with substantial capacities, they offer us very interesting market opportunities. Our capabilities ensure that we are in a good position to try and capitalize on these opportunities as and when they come.
Okay. Thank you very much and all the very best to you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Nandkumar Ranadive from Ion Exchange India Limited for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you all for participating in this earnings con call. I hope we have been able to answer your questions satisfactorily. If you have any further questions or would like to know more about the company, we will be happy to be of assistance. We are very thankful to all our investors who stood by us and also had confidence in the company's growth plan and focus. With this, I wish everyone a great evening. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Thank you, members of the management. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Ion Exchange India Limited, that concludes this conference. We thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.