Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Dr. Praveer Sinha, MD and CEO of Tata Power. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Norman. Good evening, everyone, and thanks for joining for the analyst call. I'm joined today by my colleagues, Sanjeev Churiwala, CFO, Mr. J.V. Patil, Financial Controller, Kasturi Shetty and Rajesh Lachhani from the investor relations, and a few of my other colleagues from Finance and Investor Relations team. It's a proud moment for us to once again share with you that Tata Power performance this quarter has also been very good, and this is the nineteenth consecutive quarter in which we have shown an increase in our EBITDA. That goes to prove that how consistent our performance has been. The good foundation that has been laid continues to support the company for improving its performance quarter on quarter.
When we are looking at the market, we find that the demand of power has grown by nearly 11% in the last quarter, and it continues to be very, very robust going forward also. In the last budget announced by our Honorable Finance Minister, there were four things that she mentioned, which has a huge impact on us. The first is the focus on the PM Surya Ghar program. As all of you are aware, we have already got more than 100,000 rooftop solar installations. With the focus of the government to install nearly 10,000,000 in next three to four years, we are poised to really be the market leader and take a pole position when implementing rooftop solar right across the country.
The second point that was mentioned, that the government will be coming up with a policy to support the pumped hydro storage. As all of you are aware, government has been supporting many of the FDRE projects, especially considering that, while going forward, while we will have the intermittent power from solar and wind, to make them firm, battery storage or pumped storage will happen. And that's why Government of India is seeing that many of the pumped storage projects which are there in the pipeline should get implemented quickly. As you are aware, that in Tata Power, we have already taken initiative to implement 2,800 MW, out of which the 1,000 MW should possibly start in this year, in the later part of this calendar year, once we get all the necessary approvals.
And the other 1,800 MW should start by mid of next year. The third announcement which the government, the Honorable Finance Minister made, was they will come up with a policy which will encourage private sector participation in small modular reactors. In this regard, we are discussing with the concerned authorities in the government and the company involved in such activities. And we do hope that we will play a very, very important role once there is a clarity on the technology and the fuel and other-
Sir, sorry to interrupt, but the audio for you went very low.
Okay.
It's not audible.
It's not audible?
Sir, now it is audible, sir. Yeah.
Okay. So I think on small modular reactors, there will be a lot of activity that will happen, and we will definitely examine them objectively to see the opportunity that we have and how in our quest to move towards renewable energy, this can support us going forward. We also have seen in the budget that the Honorable Finance Minister mentioned about some of the duty reductions on the clean energy space, and those will benefit the industry going forward. We have already shared the financial details. I will not go through that. But just a couple of points. First is that our 4 GW cell and module plant is progressing very well. The module plant, which was commissioned in the last financial year, has now stabilized and is producing at full capacity.
We have already shared with you that its performance in the Q1 has been good. Now that it has stabilized and the quality has improved, it will further improve in this quarter and subsequent quarters. Our cell plant is ready to get commissioned. In this month, the first 2 GW will get commissioned, and in next month, we will have the next 2 GW commissioned. We expect that it will get stabilized in next 2 to 3 months, and the full capacity will start getting produced from the Q3 onwards. We have also now finalized an agreement to execute a 600 MW hydro plant in Bhutan with Druk Green Power Corporation.
This is a project which will produce power in Bhutan, and partly will be consumed in Bhutan, especially during the winter months, and in the summer months, it will be sold in India. The preliminary work on the statutory approval, land has been acquired and work will start in the later part of this calendar year. This will entail an investment of nearly INR 6,900 crore. We will have 40% equity in this project, with the responsibility of sale of power in India, and also in project implementation and operations. We have shared with you about some of the other initiatives that the company has taken, especially in terms of the execution of projects.
In this quarter, we have already spent INR 4,000 crore of CapEx, with nearly 60% in renewables and balance 40% in transmission and distribution. The results of that, in terms of the returns, will start showing next quarter onwards. We have very ambitious plan of INR 20,000 crore investment in this year, and we are on track to implement that. All our initiatives in renewable, which includes our rooftop manufacturing, utility scale, third party EPC, are going very well. Similarly, in the transmission, our projects are getting implemented. The two projects where we had started, which was under stressed assets, which we took over, the part A of that project is already commissioned and started giving us returns. The part B is under implementation and will get completed in this financial year.
The two projects that we won in the bids, in the TBCB bids last year, they are under implementation and will get implemented and become operational in mid-FY26. We have recently won another transmission project. This is an intrastate project. This is a 765 KV line in Odisha, and we will complete that in 24 months, as per the condition of the contract. All our businesses have done excellent performance and given very good results. And we find that quarter-on-quarter, our results are improving because of the strong foundation of each of these businesses. And we expect that this will continue to improve going forward. Our balance sheet is very, very sturdy in spite of large CapEx that we have incurred.
And we do expect that our net debt, which has gone up by INR 4,300 crores to INR 42,000 crores, will be very, very calibrated when we look at the financial metrics of net debt to underlying EBITDA, which is less than 3, and our net debt to equity is less than 1.1. So I think all these are very good signs, and acknowledging all the efforts that the company has made, we have got upgraded in terms of our credit rating from AA positive to AA+ stable, both from ICRA and CARE. And this will help us to further bring down our financing costs, and to that extent, improve our profitability. With these remarks, I would like Arvind to open the floor for questions and answers.
Certainly, sir. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to please use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Good evening. Thanks for the... My first question is that RE auction volumes in Q1, as per your presentation, have been...
Sorry to interrupt, Sumit. The line for you is not very clear. I request you to please move to an area with better network.
I hope this is better.
Slightly better, yes. Please go ahead, sir.
Yeah. As per the presentation, RE auction volumes in Q1 have been 20 GW plus. You know, you also mentioned that solar cell and module prices have been falling while auction tariffs have risen. I just wanted to understand why has Tata Power not seen an increase in solar and hybrid RE pipeline in Q1 at FY 2025? Even the EPC order book for utility-scale solar has not grown quarter-on-quarter from March 2024. So just wanted to understand the thoughts behind these numbers.
So, as you are aware, we have more than 5 GW of utility-scale renewables, which is under implementation, which includes some of the enterprise orders also, which is the group captive for Tata Steel and some of the other industries. In addition to this, there is nearly 3 GW of third-party EPC, which is under implementation. So we have nearly 8 GW of projects which is under implementation now. And, we are fully tied up for all the projects for this financial year, where we expect to do more than 3 GW of implementation, and next year of 4 GW. So we wanted to ensure that first we implement all these projects, at least part of these projects gets completed in this year before we start bidding for new projects going forward.
Also, what we have found is that while the renewable projects can be implemented in 24 months, the availability of evacuation arrangement transmission lines are taking much longer. And we expect the new set of transmission lines to only come in FY 2027 and 2028. So that's why we don't want to take a project and then get stuck with them, which are stuck because of the transmission or the evacuation arrangements not being available. So we will definitely look at accelerating some of these projects. But our objective is that we will be participating more in complex and hybrid projects and FDRE projects than just plain vanilla solar energy projects. And you will see in this quarter, large number of hybrid and FDRE projects are going to come, and we will be aggressively bidding in.
This is very clear. The three GW commissioning that you mentioned in FY25 and 4 GW next fiscal includes both self, you know, Tata Power own projects and third-party projects?
Absolutely right, sir. So, 5 GW of our own and 2 to 2.5 GW of others.
Got it. The second question is on Delhi distribution business in Q1, where we have seen an operating profit increase sharply to INR 554 crore, versus INR 321 crore in Q1 FY 2024. Is there any one-time tariff order impact? If you could please elaborate.
Yeah. There is a one-time tariff order impact of INR 163 crore, and that has been...
Okay. Okay. The last question is on your cluster-wise consolidated EBITDA numbers. So if I look at solar EPC, plus TP Solar, which is a new disclosures, including plus others, including elimination, it is actually fallen year-on-year, despite the TP Solar 4 GW module facility being available for the full quarter. So I understand the intersegment elimination between solar EPC and TP Solar, but why is the total EBITDA for solar EPC plus TP Solar plus others, lower on a year-on-year basis? Thank you.
See, the best way to look at them is on a 12-month cycle, because what happens is certain activities get completed in different quarters. So in one quarter, it may be that only the steel structures have been done. In the next quarter, the solar modules are done. So it's very difficult to keep a track on a quarter-to-quarter basis, but if you see on a 12-month rolling basis, you will find that it has only improved.
Sure. Those were my questions. I'll get back in with you. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Puneet Gulati from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you so much, and congratulations on performance. My first question is on your pumped storage. Can you talk a bit about where you are in terms of approvals, et cetera, and what all more do you need before you start construction?
See, there are three parts of this. One is the land acquisition and the various internal studies and approvals. All that has been done. So all the private and the government and the forest land has been obtained. The second component is about the approval from CEA and other CWC and other authorities. We have got all approvals accepting one, which we expect that we will get in August. The third is, the environment and forest. There also, most of the approvals have been received, and we expect, the balance approvals to come by September, October. So that's why in this, year, we will start the construction activity. The preliminary work relating to the project has already started, and, we expect, that the project will be completed in 44-46 months.
Have you placed orders for the equipment yet?
The bidding process is going on, and hopefully by October we will finalize the order.
Okay. That's okay. And on Bhutan, if you can talk a bit about the timeline of, you know, completion, and the role that you will play. So execution will be your responsibility there?
And so execution is a joint responsibility of Druk Green and Tata Power. Already the order for civil construction work has been given, and the diversion tunnel work has already started 2 weeks back. So we will get the benefit of 5 months in that. Secondly, once the civil works order is reinstated over there, we expect the work to start in later part of this calendar year. We will now be working with the banks on financial closure and also tie up of sale of power. And we expect that in next 3-4 months, all this will be completed. So our expectation is that within 5 years, we will be able to complete this project.
Okay, that's it. And just, a small accounting thing. There was just a negative working capital impact of some INR 2,500 crore this quarter. If you can comment a bit on what does that relate to?
Yeah, there were some payments which we were expecting from some of our large EPC projects that we were executing. That got deferred. Some of it has been collected in the month of July, and balance in August and September will be collected.
Understood. That's it. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is on the solar manufacturing. Where is this profit on the module sitting in which entity? This is in TP Solar. TP SSL, right? Am I right? No, TP Solar. Okay, that's not the part. So details are not there. Understood. Understood. It is in renewables. It is in the item three in renewables. You would see TP Solar, 4.3 GW cell and module manufacturing plant. Understood, sir. My basic question is, is it fair to say that we'll not be able to consume entire 4 GW solar manufacturing, given our pipeline? Do you think we'll be open to external sales, and is there a case to expand the capacity?
Yeah, I mentioned to you that we have already 5 GW of our own projects, which we have to implement, and another 3 of third party. So I have already 8 GW of capacity, which is tied up. So for next 2 years, I am already full. But if there is any additional capacity we will have, we will look at the opportunity, especially for next, on DCR modules. And also, if there are good export opportunities which are available, we can definitely expand.
Understood, sir. My second question on the solar rooftop. So, have you seen the guidelines from the government or in the public domain? Do you see any uptick in the inquiries? How do you think about this business for the rest of the balance of the year?
There is a huge uptake, and it's something to the extent of 10 times more than what we saw last year. So great opportunity. It's a question of how quickly we can convert them and execute these orders. When do you think you'll see the traction in the meaningful terms? I beg your pardon? When do you think you'll see a meaningful accretion in the revenues from solar rooftop? I think by Q4, we should start seeing, third to Q4.
Understood, sir. Thank you. All the best, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Satyadeep from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you. Our first question is on the CapEx. There's a significant step up in the CapEx guidance of INR 20,000 crore this year versus last. And I believe whatever we allocate, pumped storage in Bhutan may not be that material. So just want to know, is it possible to outline where is all this CapEx going across different businesses?
So, just to give you a little general idea, out of INR 20,000 crore, about 55%-60% will go to renewable, which includes the renewable manufacturing plant and also the utility scale projects that we will execute and the group captive projects that we will execute. Another 30% will go to our transmission and distribution business, the various projects, and also the ongoing distribution in Delhi and Odisha. And about, I would say, about 15%, 10%-15% will be in our thermal and some of the new investment that we are doing in pumped hydro and the Bhutan project. So that's the approximate sort of indicative number that is there.
Okay. Just wanted to understand the SMR. There seems to be some excitement around it, and I also believe the CapEx cost for SMR is somewhere around INR 30 crore-INR 40 crore. What... Can you outline, maybe discuss what is driving this optimism around SMR?
The details are still to be out, and it would be very premature at this stage to guess what will be their CapEx and what will be their cost of fuel and things like that. So let's wait for this type of structure that the government is proposing to come, and let's examine it, and then we will be in a position to share our view on the same.
Okay. Just one quick question on rooftop solar? are you seeing any increase in competitive intensity in your own expectations? Earlier, I believe you were looking at 30% market share, it's been toned down to 20%. It seems like overall competitive intensity. Are you seeing more players enter this segment, given the opportunity size?
So there, there are very fragmented players. Those are, I would say not really competitors in that sense. So, whatever, whoever is looking for quality products long term, we have 50%-60% market share actually in this sector. So, so I think, no one has the type of market access and the product quality as we have. So, so I think, we are in very good position as far as the crossover is concerned.
Okay, thank you so much, I appreciate it.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Apoorva Bahadur from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, you briefly touched upon the possible constraint on transmission sort of impacting renewable execution generally. So just wanted to check, like, what type of transmission capacity do we have in hand for executing future projects?
I think the type of capacity that has been planned is humongous, in the sense they are talking about how to add capacity of nearly 150 GW till 2030. And that's where also there is an opportunity for companies like us, which are also in transmission, to take a much larger pie of the opportunity that is there.
Sir, I meant from a renewable capacity development perspective, do we have, say, any surplus transmission capacity beyond our renewable pipeline today? Or, is it adequate for what we have in hand?
This is just adequate for all the new capacities that will come up in next two years. And that's where if we have to add more capacity, more transmission lines have to be set up. And by 2027 onwards, more and more lines have to come in. So you want 50 GW of renewable to come in here by 2027, then you will have to create that sort of transmission arrangement to evacuate that power.
Understood, sir. Do we have surplus land banks for renewables already in place, or?
So, yes, we continuously keep on acquiring land at various locations, and we have a large land bank. Some of them we acquire, some of them we take it on long-term lease. So that's an ongoing process. And as I mentioned to you, that we are now looking more of hybrid solutions, so solar and wind sites we are looking at. And we continue to keep on adding as the demand increases.
Sure, sir. Last question from my side is on the PPA for the Bhutan project. You mentioned that the arrangement will be such that power will be sold in Bhutan during winters and India in summers. So, so what type of an offtake agreement are you looking at over here?
Like in a standard PPA, it will be there for any IPP. And, this will primarily be for 25 or 30 years. The agreement is for 30 years with them. Now, typically, you have a 30-year PPA for hydro plants, as is already being done for many of the plants which are developed in India and also developed in Nepal. So, this will be primarily catering to the summer months from May to October, and it will actually meet the peak requirement of power of the country, going forward.
What type of returns are generally built in?
Well, nothing less than what we get in CERC.
Okay, sir. Thank you so much. I'll get back in the queue. All the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Majumdar from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good evening, sir, and congratulations on the good set of numbers. So I want to harp on the nuclear...
I'm sorry to interrupt, Rajesh, but the line for you sounds muffled. I request you to please change the handset mode.
Yeah. Am I audible now?
Yes, much better, sir. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Yeah. So I want to say congratulations on the good set of numbers, sir. And, just to harp on the nuclear modules a little bit, would it be possible to give us an idea about the speed to delivery time in these modules? Like, typically, what would be the kind of construction time for these SMRs?
First of all, thank you. But I really don't know what to tell you very frankly. We are still waiting to hear from the government and also the identified public enterprise who would be working with us. So, at this stage, it's very, very preliminary, and let's wait. I think in another two, three months, we will get better clarity on this.
... Okay, sir. My second question, sir, would it be fair to assume that, our growth in the, renewable business will be fueled mostly from the, whatever group in-house CapEx that is happening, as well as the, rooftop solar? Because you yourself, opined that, a large amount of transmission capacity would be coming in only in 2028 and 2029. So that could be a normal hindrance to our, you know, ability to bag, projects, other kind of projects. Is that a correct assumption?
No, no, it's not a correct assumption. I mentioned to you that we have 8 GW under implementation, which will come in by 2025, 2026, and some of it in the early part of 2027. Now, for 2027, 2028, the evacuation have to come, so if we get any new project for that, the evacuation has to be tied up, and it's important that the evacuation lines are planned for by 2027 and 2028. So we will be taking large number of projects, but we'll go for complex and hybrid projects like solar and wind or FDRE projects with storage. And all these projects will come up in the year by 2027, 2028. And you will find these are not only for utilities, but also for enterprise and industries with whom we will be tying up.
My last question is, see, we've seen a large amount of investment by JSW Steel on the renewables front, wherever we've not seen a similar kind of move from Tata Steel, typically because they have their own issues regarding Europe, et cetera. They're getting sorted and probably at some stage they'll do it. Do you see that coming as a you know, kind of a large factor over, say, one or two years, the decarbonization drive from Tata Steel in particular?
We have already signed an agreement with them to make the, to provide them 966 MW of hybrid project. Part of it will get commissioned in this financial year and balance in the next financial year. Apart from that, we've already executed some of the projects for them, of nearly a 100 MW, and another 100 is under finalization. So I think, Tata Steel is, is going very aggressive and they will be in the forefront, and Tata Power will provide them all support for, clean energy.
Thank you. Thanks for your question.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ketan Jain from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thank you, sir. Good evening. So my first question is on, what is the status of solar pumps business? Like, how much have we installed in FY2024 and the Q1?
We have not installed any more solar pumps in this year, because the last order, which was given, was in FY 2022, and whatever order was given, we have completed that. The new set of orders have not come, and so we have not really reached again.
Okay. Sir, in the modules manufacturing, so what type of realization can we expect in domestically, like, in our facility in Tamil Nadu?
Very difficult at this stage to say. The plant is still stabilizing, and we'll be able to share more details maybe in quarter three, once the plant has stabilized fully.
Understood. So what is your view on power distribution reforms and what opportunities are likely to come Tata's way?
So there are some states who are examining this proposal, and we do expect that in next 2, 3 months, some of them will formally come up with a proposal asking us to submit the proposal, and I'm sure we will come up with all that.
Sir, any, any state name you can say?
When the states have to inform, I cannot give you.
Okay. My last question is on section 11. When do you think section 11 will be reintroduced again?
It's already in under operation. It's there till 15 October, and we expect either that will get extended or we will find an amicable solution.
Understood. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vishal Periwal from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah, sir, Vishal Periwal from Antique Stock Broking. So a couple of clarification. One is, you mentioned we'll be doing 3 GW this year, 4 GW next year. So this is the... Under the asset owner, we, we will be the asset owners. It's, it's in addition to the EPC, the separate line item for us, right?
So I mentioned that 5 GW of our own we will be doing, and 3 of a third party, so totally we will be doing about 8 GW. More than 3 GW we will do this year, and more than 4 GW we will do in FY 2026. So that's the broad plan that is.
Okay. So, maybe I'll just clarify. So this includes where we are the asset owners, and also it includes where we are doing EPC for others?
Absolutely right.
Okay. And, will the breakup be there in terms of our, where we are asset owners, what is the addition in, this year and next year?
We'll be able to provide you separately. I don't have it, the breakup right now, but I'm sure we'll be able to provide you.
... So sure, sir, sure. And maybe one last thing, in the entity-wise consolidated performance, so the elimination which comes in that slide. So if one has to understand from which subsidiary it is largely coming in-
Elimination. Elimination. See, elimination primarily comes from whatever you do Utility Scale for yourself, sir. So that is the elimination or any rooftop business that you do.
Okay.
That is anything within the company is the elimination.
Okay, so the solar EPC is something which, particularly coming, so that's okay.
Not really, only Dividend, yeah, or maybe dividend.
Okay. Okay, okay. Sure, sir, I think I'll get in touch, maybe with the team separately for more details. Thank you.
Yeah, you can connect with Rajesh and Kasturi, and I'm sure they will provide you all the information.
Sure, sir, sure. It was helpful.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Bhinde from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. I just wanted to understand, is there any capacity apart from Prayagraj, where we have the possibility of selling it on merchant? And if so, in quarter one, how much did we sell and the kind of EBITDA we could have made on that one?
Our Haldia plant is a merchant plant. It's 120 MW, and I think the 20 MW is given to Tata Steel. Balance 100 is merchant. And so also, our Prayagraj, where nearly 150 MW is available for either short term or merchant sales. So yeah, these are the two plants which have merchant sales.
So how much would have been the sales approximately, and any EBITDA number you that you can help us with on that?
That number we'll be able to provide you separately. I don't have it ready.
Sure. And another thing, sir, I want to understand is, given the transmission opportunity ordering that's happening, how much would be the balance sheet capability to bid for transmission grid at the time when you are already looking aggressively to bid for renewables in the coming quarter?
Yeah, so we'll bid both of them aggressively. I mentioned to you that we are also doing large amount of CapEx in our transmission business, and we'll continue to do that.
Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask questions, you may please press star and one. The next question comes from the line of Mittal, and... I'm sorry. It's Anuj Upadhyay and Investec. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. So you also mentioned about the evacuation facilities from the Bhutan project would be on us. Could you elaborate further on that? Would the return on the transmission evacuation facilities would also be on a regulated basis, or how exactly it will be placed?
There are two parts of the transmission system. One is the transmission system within Bhutan up to the India border. That will be done by the Bhutan Power Corporation, and that's the investment that they will do and charge the projects. The other is the India side of the transmission, which of course has been already implemented in a large quantity. Transmission system has already been implemented. Whatever are the transmission charges one has to pay, but the HPO policy of Government of India says that any project which comes up to 2030 may not be required to pay ISTS charges. This project should be able to meet that requirement.
Okay. And any guidance in the CapEx, sir, or does the CapEx for the hydro project include transmission CapEx as well, or it's purely for the plant per se and transmission CapEx is different?
Yeah, this is only for the plant. The transmission is not being done by us, so we have not kept that CapEx.
Okay. Your share of profitability was slightly down during the quarter across the JV and the associate. So, what was it, the profitability across the industry in coal, which was impacted, or it was some other line?
Yeah, coal company, the profitability has been coming down because the coal prices are not going up, and they have stabilized at a certain level. So, so this, this is the profit that the coal companies have been able to share.
Thank you, sir. That's all from us.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Dr. Praveer Sinha for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. Thank you very much, Arvind, and thank you to everyone for your questions. In case we have not been able to respond to all your questions, or you still have some additional questions, please connect with my colleagues from the investor relations team, Kasturi and Rajesh, and I'm sure we'll be able to provide you all the information. We have, over a period of time, improved the way the presentations have been made, but we continue to expect the feedback from you so that it can further be elaborated and becomes more friendly in terms of you know, the analysis and assessment. So please continue to give us your feedback, and we'll try to give you as detailed a presentation as possible. And thank you everyone for joining us.
Thank you. On behalf of Tata Power Company Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your line.