Q4 20/21

May 12, 2021

evening, everyone, and welcome to the Q4 Earnings Call. We hope all of you and your family members are safe and sound and taking care of yourself. This quarter has been very challenging for all of us, and we would like to thank all of you for the support that you have provided us during this period. Your support has motivated the company and our employees during this period to continue serving the nation. The company and its employees have contributed to various medical supplies, awareness drives and volunteering, including telehealth lines. And our COVID response efforts are ongoing across 63 locations, including all our thermal plants, all our distribution businesses and all our renewable sites spread across various states. As we reflect back on FY 'twenty one, Tata Power is proud of the significant progress achieved on various strategic areas and is confident of achieving the targets as we had laid out during our last interaction with investors in August. As informed to you, we have successfully completed the takeover of the fourth distribution license in ModiSA, the Northern Distribution Company, effective first April twenty twenty one. With the acquisition of the Northern Distribution Company, our total consumer base has grown from 2,600,000 as of end March twenty to 12,000,000 customers as of now. In line with our aspirations to grow in the distribution business, we have now become the largest private power distribution company in India in less than a year's time. The progress in PPCODL, which is the central distribution company in Odisha and which operates the erstwhile Sesu license area has been very encouraging with the AT and T losses seeing a sharp decline within ten months of operation and is below 30% in a record twelve month period. In fact, from the time we took over from June 1 in the ten months of operations, the AT and C losses has actually gone down to 25.5%. This has proved our execution capability in being able to achieve the targeted AT and C losses and therefore create value for the customers in Odisha, including providing them reliable supply and customer services. The beginning of the SouthCo and WestCo distribution companies in Odisha from January 1 has been very promising, and we are confident to write the same story in terms of better reliability, better quality service to the customer, as also improvement in the financial parameters and much better AT and T losses as we move forward. Cumulatively, all the three discounts in the limited period of operation has been able to give profits against the originally planned losses for the first and second year of operation. And we can definitely expect a more powerful performance in the coming years from Odisha. The focus on clean growth business areas are showing results with robust performance from the renewable businesses. As a result, we achieved a stellar growth of 20% impact before exceptional items, which grew from INR366 crores in Q4 last year to INR440 crores in Q4 this year. With this focused growth and deleveraging, we achieved 16% growth in FY 'twenty one to end the year with a PAT before exceptional items of INR1424 crores, up from INR1231 crores last year. Of course, the high coal prices in the last quarter have impacted CGPL, but the coal companies have benefited from the price increase. With the full year saving of CGPL's interest cost of nearly crores through the debt repayment, which we did during the year, we expect CGPL will need very small support from Tata Power in the future. The increase in was led by renewables cluster, which reported a 2x growth impact from INR88 crores in Q4 last year to INR175 crores this year. This growth has largely been driven by the performance in our focused areas in solar businesses, namely solar EPC, rooftop and pumps, despite part of the year loss in COVID-nineteen. We clocked a 2.4x growth in Tata Power Solar's annual revenue, growing from crore last year to INR5119 crore this year. Our solar EPC order continued a healthy growth with orders worth 2,294 won in Q4, taking the total order book to INR 8,742 crore as on thirty first March. Amongst various projects, we won three twenty megawatts of solar project from NGPC valued at approximately INR 1,200 crores and a 55 megawatt solar project from GSCCL from Gujarat valued at approximately INR $2.30 crores, reaffirming the position that Tata Power Solar is the prime choice for as an EPC contractor for large developers of projects. In Rooftop Solar business, we have seen a major uptick in orders and execution in this quarter. Our Rooftop revenue in this quarter crossed INR300 crore Order book stands over INR600 crore as on date. We installed 79 megawatt of rooftop solar in this quarter itself, and the total installation for the year reached 175 megawatt. We have seen very good response to our Solar Roof digital campaign, which has created more than five crore digital impressions and given us more than 41,000 leads. We have also entered into a partnership with Sidvi to offer easy and affordable financing scheme to MSME customers in the rooftop solar segment. On solar pumps, our business sold 6,500 pumps in this quarter, recording its largest quarterly revenue and a total sales of around 13,000 pumps during the financial year. While one of the quarter was mostly lost in COVID-nineteen, our teams have done remarkable job in achieving such large scale growth. The expansion and doubling of capacities in the cell and module manufacturing plant at Bangalore will make our domestic content projects much more competitive and thereby allowing Tata Power Solar to grow its business further. With the stellar performance in these businesses, Tata Power Solar's revenue for this quarter increased five times from crores last year to INR2777 crores in this quarter. Our renewable development portfolio has received LOA and signed PPA for 88 megawatt solar in last quarter, which will have and we will have thirteen fourteen megawatts of projects under implementation. With nearly 2,693 megawatts of operational wind and solar projects, our total portfolio with the existing orders with us will cross 4,000 megawatts. We have also won few more solar projects for which we are awaiting the LOA, post which we will inform the details. We continue to improve the availability across our renewable assets, both for wind and solar, with several operational initiatives, and this is reflected in the steady performance across the assets, with solar plants operating at 99% to 100% availability, while wind sites are running above 98%. In addition to that, our over dues from DISCOMs have also consistently come down over the years and even when in a year there was stressed liquidity due to pandemic. The consolidated revenue for the fourth quarter stood at crores compared to INR6881 crores previous year, mainly driven by the UESA DISCOMs and increased order execution in large scale EPC projects, rooftop and solar business. The sectoral tailwinds and operational improvements are likely to continue to aid our various businesses, including the Purisa distribution circles and the solar EPC business. Moving to the balance sheet, we have significantly reduced loans across entities, CGPL, Mitra and Trust Energy. We reduced our net debt by more than INR 7,500 crores over the last one year through divestment of various assets and strategic fund raise from promoters. With refinancing of certain debt and the reduced interest regime around the globe, our average interest cost has also reduced to around 7.4% compared to 8.3% last year. Our debt to equity has sharply been brought down to a level of 1.4x to 4.2x from 2x last year. Net debt to underlying EBITDA stood at 4.06x. The linear balance sheet will give us the flexible the financial flexibility to pursue growth in strategic areas. In Prahagaraj, we continue to see strong operational performance, achieving an 83% availability during the year. With liquidation of close to 2,100 crores of due from the state DISCO, Praia Viadryaj has been able to both prepay long term loans as well as to distribute cash to its shareholders, thus becoming a win win transaction for all stakeholders. This turnaround of Prahagraj has been excellent because of reporting of PAT of crores in FY 'twenty one compared to loss in the previous year. Our stake in Resurgent, representing our share of Triage profit and interest on debt to Triage, gave us a PAT of INR100 crores in FY 'twenty one compared to a loss of INR20 crores in the previous year. Our microgrid venture also achieved remarkable progress, installing 33 microgrids during this quarter, taking our total installed numbers to 161, with another 40 under installation covering total 200 villages and nearly 4,000 customers. This venture is improving the lifestyle and promoting small scale industries in rural communities, which will be a big catalyst to the rural economy. We have launched last year installation of electric vehicle charging points at all important railway stations in Mumbai as also in suburbs and adjoining MMRTA area in association with Central Railway and UN Environment Program. During this quarter, we installed 175 new public charging stations, taking the new network of public chargers to four fifty six, the largest in the country. We have also installed 80 ultra high capacity bus chargers in Mumbai and Ahmedabad. As you all are aware, we are continuously working to improve our ESG ratings, and we have been ranked number 13 amongst the top 200 Indian companies by Sustain Labs, that is on various E and C parameters. We recently best ESG disclosure award under the ESG category, MidCap from the IR Society Investor Relations Award 2020 held recently with BSC and KPMG is a proof that the market and you are appreciating the efforts being made in this space by Tata Power. We thank you once again for your invaluable goals. We aspire to take our ESG disclosure to much higher level. And in line with this goal, our teams have set up dedicated ESG portal to provide all relevant information at a single location. We are also working with institutions like SBTI to set up scientifically derived emission reduction goals. And in the near future, you will hear much more on our ESG efforts. The exit of defense business and the focus on cleaner sources of revenue will help Tata Power to further meet its ESG aspirations. As you are aware, for more than a year, we have been working on evaluating options for monetizing our renewable assets with a view to reduce debt. While we did receive very good response from prospective investors, a few developments have happened during the last one year. The first is that we have managed to reduce our debt equity ratio to 1.4, which now puts us in a very strong position for future growth. Second is that we have exceeded our targets on building of our consumer focused green business of rooftop solar, solar pumps and EV charging. The third is Tata Power has a leadership position amongst the Indian utilities and is amongst a handful of few global players to offer such comprehensive offerings of clean and green energy products and solutions ranging from solar manufacturing, EPC, rooftop solar, solar pumps, EV charging and microgrids. Thus, Tata Power is uniquely positioned to leverage on its deep sectoral and market experience to gain market share in these offerings. Also based on very good feedback from investors and other stakeholders that this wide and deep set of offerings makes very comprehensive renewable platform, which can eventually be valued significantly higher given the investor interest. In view of the above, we are working on a much bigger and wider renewable business growth during the coming years, which will open up far bigger opportunity to create shareholder value. We'll share with you our plans soon. We have invested in last one year in various building blocks, and these blocks have now started showing traction. We are excited about the unlimited opportunities available to Tata Power to grow to a leadership position in the Indian utility space and look forward to your continued support in this remarkable journey. I have with me Mr. Ramesh Subramaniam, CFO along with Mr. Kasturi, Chief of Treasury and Investor Relations Mr. Anand Agrawal, the Financial Controller and Rahul Shah from Investor Relations. I now hand over the call to the moderator for question and answer. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. The first question is from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir, and thanks for the opportunity. My first question is regarding your update on the merger of CGPL and Tata Power Solar with parent, where are we? The second question is in relation to your monetization plans for your renewable portfolio either through the Inverte route and now we are reading in media about potential plans to go for an IPO. So could you please elaborate on that as well? I will ask a couple more questions, but I'll get the answers first. Yes. So Sumit, on the first on the second question first, you asked about monetization. Mr. Sinat just mentioned, we are working on that issue. As we said, we now find that during the last one year, lot of improvements have taken place in the whole ESG space, and we are very bullish now that with the kind of more than expected, I would say, progress in our wider, greener green portfolio, we are now seriously looking at a much, much bigger value creating opportunity than what we started with during last year. So remember, when we started the Ingrid journey, we had a high debt overhang. And also, are just kind of contemplating on a set of noncore sales and capital raise. I think all those plans are very tentative. And given COVID, that was a different, I would say, scenario. So we are now in a far, far better position having accomplished what we've done in the last twelve months. So we are reviewing that situation, and we'll come up with something which is really much, much bigger in terms of allocation. So we will have to wait. TGP or TPS, this will merger. So we are in are in NCLT. We got all the approvals in place. We are waiting for the courts to open. As you know, are still, because of COVID, etcetera, functioning is affected. So in in due course, we expect the hearings to resume. We have been hearing all the credit approvals in terms of shareholder approval, regulatory approvals. This is in the last stages. So the hearings in MCLT are yet to Yes, yes. Okay. So third question is very strong performance in part of our Solar Services Limited, so my compliments on that. Could you break up the revenue for the full year, if possible? And since the quarter was so big, between EPC, rooftop solar, comms, microgrid, EV charging? And maybe talk about the profitability in these verticals as they become more meaningful for you over the medium term. So if you see the presentation, it has the combined number, okay? As you can see, we have given Therapart folder separately and Valvone and TPR here separately, as you can see. And in one of the charts, also the there is revenue detail. So right now, of course, there is these are all early stage growth businesses, so we're not really talking about the bottom line right now. And it's just more important is to create the market and grow the market, and that we are doing successfully. So I think that you're already getting. I think it's in Slide 19 and followed by the breakup in Slide '47, '48, '49 and also the consolidated view in Slide 51. So you may like to refer to that. So right now, of course, this is what really is the key that probably one should know. Okay. But to think of it in terms of EBITDA margin is still early for, say, rooftop solar or solar pumps? Yes. But then we are doing well. That's all I can say. Because these these are to achieve scale. We are creating a good infrastructure to run these businesses. So we have put that in place. So when it scales up, you will you will slowly see the numbers for itself. So right now, of course, we are in growth mode. Right. And finally, for CSU, where you took over operations in June 2020, what has been the cash burn after taking operations? Because I'm sure as the AT and T losses would have come down gradually and you would have been below norms to begin with. I mean, there would have been a cash loss, right? This contrary to what was said perceived earlier when we won the bid, thereafter when we were finally handed over the company, there was a huge perception that we will burn cash in this initially. Surprisingly, and I think the credit goes to our team, which is on the ground during the COVID, has done a remarkable job. And we actually end up in this quarter with just negative 8 crores. So I think it's been a phenomenal progress considering that these are the first year. The first year was supposed to be the worst. And therefore, we have gone through the first year very, very successfully, both on the network, technical and consumer end. So we I think this story will only improve from here. And insofar as the full year is concerned, actually, we've ended up with INR28 crores of positive tax for the entire VichalisCom. In fact, if you see the Slide 17, it shows that while the AT and C loss last year was 30%, When we took over, it was actually on June 1. And for nearly two months, there was no collection that had happened. Partial lockdown was there. And the AT and T losses were in the range of 40%. And we have end the year with 29%. So it's a phenomenal amount of improvement that has happened in one year or in ten months that we took over. And on a ten year performance ten months performance, we have something like 25% AT and C loss. So it's a phenomenal improvement that has been done over there, not only in terms of loss reduction, but also in terms of reliability of service and customer services that is being provided. Indeed, sir. It's a phenomenal performance. Thank you so much for answering my questions. I'll join the queue. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Swarnim Maheshwari from Edelweiss Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hello, sir. Good evening, and congratulations for good performance. Sir, couple of questions. First, now, sir, we were all waiting for the ramp up in the TPSL, and indeed, the ramp up happened. But I think when you look at the EBITDA margins over there, that's just about a shade below 7%. So I think the last time we had spoken on this, this was expected that because of the operating leverage, this would be a bit higher. So any specific reasons despite the ramp up in the revenues, the margins have not been lifted in the TPSL side? That's my first question. So we have some pressure on the module front, but this will ease off as we go through some of the past projects. We've had probably some pressure on the module front, but otherwise, I think we are well on track to deliver the next set of balanced orders. So you know that module prices have tightened all over the world. Yes. I do understand. So I mean, can you quantify the higher cost that has gone for the modules? We don't give specific module related details as such, so we would continue that practice. But all we can say is that going forward, we believe there will be two things. The new orders will factor in the new prices, so that should take care of the margin. And some of the existing orders may undergo some headwinds for until they are complete. But it's a cycle. So at times, we have had much higher EBITDA margins also. So on an average, we should be back to a much higher level than what we achieved last year. Got it. Got it. Sir, second question was just a clarification. Now in that Slide number 17, when you had mentioned that the AT and T loss has reduced to 29.5 percent, then there is a footnote which says that, you know, the AT and T losses is basically 25.5%. So this is the 25.5 is the average losses for the ten months. Is that the correct understanding or what is it? Correct. Correct. Correct. But sir, we have then March 21 or also when you look at that 29.5% loss, which is there in that, graph, so that is the exit, number for the March month. Is that is that fair? It is a rolling average. It's a twelve month rolling average. That's how AT and T have paid. Okay. Okay. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Right. And, sir, just finally, so, you know, you have, you know, given enough dupe on this renewable side on the invoice or the IPO. I just wanted to understand one thing. So this, have you actually shelved it completely or like you are reviewing the situation and perhaps there is something better in the offering that's why there is some sort of a delay? What is it exactly? I think it goes without saying that unless something there is better than what we started off with Invade, we won't be spending so much time. So I think clearly, are working on nothing is rolled out, by the way. But clearly, are working on something which will have far better shareholder value creation than what could have been achieved by Inveit. Because remember, was only one piece, which was operational assets, which was on the take for the Invict. So since, as Doctor. Sina mentioned, we've now grown far more confident of our wider portfolio. So we believe that we can do something better than it. We are working on it. And sooner or later, we will come up with what we believe is the best way forward. All right, sir. Thank you so much and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vishal Biraja from Aviva Insurance. Please go ahead. Hello. So my question pertains to the integrated operations of PGPN and coal companies. On slide 42, you've given the EBITDA impact. Could you also give the cash flows as to what has been the cost of operations on integrated basis and if any SPF was generated? Do you have it ready here? Cash flow. You have to cash. So let me tell you that in terms of coal companies, the fact is cash because there's very little depreciation there. So but we can give you separately cash numbers. But I just want to add that in this quarter, one of the things that is kind of increasing the deficit in CGPL is that the coal prices shot up in the last six months. And there is this CRT index, which kind of index is used for calculating tariff. So this is based on the previous six months. So we are currently going also suffering due to the lag effect that the coal price lower coal price in the first half is being charged to revenue in the current quarter. And the effect of the last six months increase in coal prices will be reflected in the subsequent six months notification. So we will have probably the second half better than the first half of this year because of this lag. Because whenever there's a sharp rise, it affects that particular quarter, and March was one of them. Right, sir. Thank you. I'll come back from my question. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of, Atul Devari from Citi. Please go ahead. Sir. Sir, again, a question on this renewable inlet or the potential deal. So is it fair to assume that at least towards next six months to one year, we are not going to see any kind of it's either a strategic sale or IPO. And the portfolio will be kind of grown over a longer time to a much bigger scale, and then we will see some kind of capital action on that one. No, I don't think we said any of that, which you mentioned. Neither we said that it is we are not going to do anything in the next six to twelve months. So therefore, don't think that's what we mean. I think we are in the it is in the works as to what is the best way to go about it. We are taking more time because we want to ensure that that's the best thing for the company, and you will hear it as soon as we decide. But it's not something which is gonna take a year or two or three as you were probably suggesting. Yeah. It will happen sooner than later. Yeah. It's very much on the in the works, and it will happen very quickly. Okay. Great. Great. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Puneet from HSBC. Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. Sorry to harp on this renewal thing again. But is the understanding correct that now the idea is to monetize not just the renewable asset, but to bundle it with some of the more exciting parts like microgrid, EV charging, etcetera? No. What the correct way to understand that is we the current in which proposal was only operational assets. We are now because of the important positive developments, a, that desperation to get debt down is slightly less because of the good things that we've been able to do in the last one year on the balance sheet, I think we are far more confident now that let us look at not just that asset, but see whether there is a bigger opportunity here. So as I said, I think suffice to say at this point that this is a we are looking at it more positively as to whether we can do something different or bigger. But certainly, it is not clear at this point that I can't tell you exactly that whether one business or the other will be part of it or not part of it. But certainly, we have a huge canvas to now choose from, given the fact that the other businesses have picked up very well, far better than what we expected. And they also look to be on track to achieve far better growth in the coming years. So therefore, that confidence is very different level now. Yes. So can you talk a bit about the business model that you now have on the EV charging and the microgrid? We've been maintaining that the business model is evolving. And I think that you have to give some time for these businesses to mature to a level where you can call it as a fixed business model. Right now, it's evolving as we learn on the go. And as we are growing on the across the nation, we are also learning a lot on how to make this profitable and scalable and modular in business. Yes. On the EV, let me tell you that there are three components of EV. One is the home charging, where it's a very good business model. We are tied up with OEM partners, starting with Tata Motors and some of the other manufacturers. And we are virtually 100 providing home charging facilities wherever they sell their electric vehicles. The second is the public charging, where we have already put nearly 500 public charging. And these are not only in cities, they are in 100 cities and they are also on highways. And we have, again, big plans to scale this up both for public charging as well as highways, and we'll be something like upward of 3,000 in next one year. The third is for fleet owners and bus charging. Again, in three cities, we are putting it for the public transport. This is in Mumbai, in Ahmedabad and Jaipur, where we are already working over there. And going forward, we expect so each one of them have very different business models. The fleet is a captive and whereby we have assured revenue model. The home charging is a captive where we have. The public charging is based on the type of penetration of electric vehicles that will happen. But considering that this type of ecosystem we are creating, we will be the biggest players and we will have a huge market as and when the penetration of electric vehicle increases and the usage of the EV charging systems increases. On the microgrids, as Ramesh mentioned that we have installed about 161 microgrids in different parts. Last one year, because of COVID, this was not the best of the time to launch the microgrids, but we have got very good success in many of the places. We are enhancing the capacity. And this is an evolving area that we have. And of course, the other businesses we have I've already shared with you, whether it was for rooftop or it was for solar pumps, have got very good traction. And this is going to grow multifold in the coming years. Okay. So my other question is, is there any progress on the sale of the other smaller entities which you're looking at? Or is that also now shelved for the time being? You mean, sorry, sale of the? The the other small assets that you have, Georgia, etcetera. It's very actively going on. And of course, because of the COVID, etcetera, a lot of I think a lot of things are slowing down a bit, but there has been substantial progress. Otherwise, we hope to see this year FY 'twenty two to close some of these ongoing sales initiatives. And is it fair to assume that the CGPA settlement with the off takers is now on the back burner as well because of COVID? No, not it's not a COVID issue. I think we have mentioned in the past calls also that the current formula, which the off takers have offered doesn't make sense for us. And we have indicated because they deviated quite a bit from the original ask. And therefore, for us, it doesn't make sense. And if we are only bound by many conditions and without the corresponding relief, which we were seeking, it doesn't make sense. So certainly, we will continue to kind of keep a watch, but right now, that's not acceptable to us in the current form. I think one of the speakers also asked about what is the combined cash position of coal and CGPL. The answer is for the last year, it was about INR450 crores. That is a cash positive, not burn. Okay. That's all from my side. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anikit Mittal from Motira Luswal Financial Services. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible? Yeah. Yeah. Speaking. Sure. Okay. Sure. So my first question was actually on the CGP land and the emission mines. I think the HBA prices have now crossed $80 per ton. Is there any impact that we're seeing because of the DMO regulation over there? So it's bit unclear whether the DMO regulation, how they will apply because already the industry is under pressure there. So there's a lot of government is being approached for relief on that. So yes, theoretically, it is still applicable, but the industry is talking to the government on the various reliefs on this. So we don't know where it will end up. So right and remember that this whole DMO obligation is, as you know, it's 25% of the output to be sold to domestic market. That's something which actually only when the year goes through, then one starts to worry about that. Half the year will probably first half, there will be no worries. But thereafter, if it is likely to fall short, etcetera, then that issue will come up. Right now, we're not really sure how that's going to pan out. Just to get some clarity then, so the HP prices, let's say, at around $85 per tonne now, I think the price ceiling at DMO would have been $70 per ton. Is that still applicable? And and are you selling it $70 No. So see see domestic, the the the initial initial domestic sale will follow the rule, but there is a the industry has been making a request for relaxation on that due to the fact that the industry went through a very bad time in the last two years. So we are awaiting the result of that from the government. Otherwise, yes, it will apply. Okay. Excellent. And the other thing again on the the KPC mines, I see a decent amount of increase on the cost of production as well. I just want to understand, has there been any renegotiation of contracts happening, which is led to the rise in cost of production? So many of the contracts, as you know, when the cycle of coal prices come down, they are negotiated. And then when the prices go up, they also go up, okay? So what you have to see is the gross profit per tonne. And that is the key thing because contractors also work along with the miners to adjust their pricing to ensure that everyone survives. So and fuel prices, higher prices, they all are also playing a part in this. Commodity prices generally have gone up. But normally, we see a cycle that when the prices are good, there's a little bit of relaxation on the input cost, but you should really look at the gross profit margin. Understood. But from a, let's say, sort of near term or a one year perspective, this $35 per ton cost of production is something that we can assume to continue. I must say that our mines are actually working hard to cut this down. Let's see how successful they are. There are various programs going on there to cut the production costs. Okay. Sure. My second question is on the execution front. If I look at the order book that we have, firstly, on the EPC front, it will be around INR 8,600 crores on the solar EPC front and another INR 600 crores on the rooftop front. It could be just you know, help me understand from an execution cycle perspective, when do we expect these orders to get completed? That is point number one. And secondly, from a developer perspective as well, we've got a 1,300 megawatt of renewable capacity. How would execution for that pan out? So all in fact, the internal, what you call, the projects which are there within the company, they are already some of them are going to be as early as the second quarter. Normally, of these will exceed eighteen months in general. There will be twelve to eighteen months. And we also will take advantage of probably timing on purchase of modules, etcetera, and expedite some projects even earlier. So currently, about 900 megawatt of our own captive projects are going on, out of which about 600 megawatt are likely to happen in the first half. So a substantial commissioning is happening in the first half itself. You're not really okay, actually. Yeah. Can you please just say that again? Sure. Can you hear me now? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So seven point points, I mean, given fact, I think the BCD is expected to come in next year. Right? So is there any sort of increase in the execution cycle or the execution period that you're expecting? What I'm trying to understand is this 8,600 crores that we have on the SolarAPP front and 700 crores in the rooftop front. Just from a timing point of view, when do we expect this to actually happen, let's say, within the next fifteen months or so? So let me tell you that there are two types of projects. One is where we are using imported cells and modules, and the other is where we are using domestic cells and modules, sir, against some of the orders of NTPC and public sector undertaking. So those which are domestic, we have to use domestic, and we have shared with you that how we have expanded our capacity, and it has now become 1,100 megawatt of cell and module put together. So those will happen based on the requirement of the customer. We are, of course, targeting that most of these projects will get completed in this year. As Ramesh mentioned to you, there is nearly 900 to 1,000 megawatt of our own project development, which is happening. And many of them will get commissioned within first half year. So we are expecting that most of the projects that we have, we'll be able to execute in this financial year. And whatever gets spilled over, we will try to see that in the early part of the next financial year they are implemented. And in terms of your projects in the development, the one thirty one, which is around 1.3 gigawatt, how would the execution for that look like? So we said 900 out of that is going to be in the next nine six to nine months, and the balance will be somewhere in the end of next year end of this year. Okay. End of early first quarter of next year, yes. Sure. And just carrying on that front, could you tell me what would your overall capital expenditure look like for FY 2022? And if you could take that up for me for your different segments? Yes. So we are expecting close to 8,000 crores of CapEx next year. So could you could you break that from execution and timing, it could be anywhere between INR 7,000 to 8,000 crores. INR 7,000 to INR 8,000 crores of CapEx? Yeah. And could you break that up for me, let's say, for how much of that would be related to the new bill, and how much of that would be, let's say, the Orita distribution part and then the remaining regular distribution? So about half of that would be renewable, at least. Half of that is renewable. How much would be the Orita distribution before put together? Just a minute. On the CapEx? Yeah. It's about thousand crores. Yeah. So it's not so it's not all all all this comp put together is about thousand crores. Also thousand crores. Okay. Okay. And You know, just just one last question actually on the when we start this conference. You know, I I see that one of your sites did mention that there is certain amount of incentives that you've earned on the collection of areas for for IT services. If you could just help me with that, what is the total area of funding order, and how does this incentive actually work? Like, you know, what does the incentive percentage And do you see this on a recurring basis coming through, let's say, 22 or so? Okay. All four put together, we don't have I don't have the ready number. We'll we'll we'll have it given we'll have it sent to you. Okay. And and just maybe one one last housekeeping question. If you could tell me what's the overall cash level that your Ovisa discount? Overall? The net cash the net cash at your Ovisa discount. Rahul will send you that ticket. Sure. Okay. Fine. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anupam Goswami from BNP Securities. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Most of my questions are being answered, ma'am. Just last on the CapEx part, sir, we we were contemplating about 15,000 crores of CapEx target, and we have shown a visibility in the slide about 9,500. So how much of that has been incurred till now and approved? And also on the balance, 5,600 crores, when when the new kind of project will come and what kind of bidding are we expecting on that? Well, you know, we I just heard partially correctly. Can you just repeat for me? Yes. Yes, sir. Little louder. Yes, sir. So we are targeting a INR 15,000 crores CapEx, and we have showing in our Slide number 15 that the visibility of INR 9,500 crores CapEx to regulatory orders. Now my question is on how much CapEx we have already incurred and how much we are approved out of that. And also on the balance, 5,600 crores, where do we see the new projects coming up on this? So so the balance you're talking about the balance because I think that we are so remember that in this in this list in distribution, we knew there are two, three possibilities. One is that we do expect a much higher number on the transmission in Mumbai. Then the new we also plan to grow further and acquire further new BISCOM that could give us that balance. And secondly, in Orissa, as we go along, if the requirement goes up, which is quite likely right now, it's a very conservative number. That is the other area where we could see an improvement. Okay. And, sir, on this, how much we have incurred till now? Sorry. Say that? Sir, how much we have incurred till now and approved also? Around 900 crores. On the whole, Orissa? Or I The the transmission distribution and Delhi, that that just one minute. I'll give you the exact number. So Odisha is about 132 in the last year. Okay? And another INR900 crores is the rest of the discounts. So it's about INR1000 crores to INR1100 crores. The proposals have been submitted. The order is awaited in this month. The hearing has been completed by OERC. So once but when we had based, we had given a certain number of CapEx that we will do in the first five years, so we will be complying to that requirement. And those numbers, we'll be able to share with you separately. Okay, sir. Okay, sir. I'll join back in the queue. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital. Please go ahead. Hello. Good evening, sir. So three questions, sir. So AT and T losses had gone down to 25.5% this year. Is it primarily led by reduction in losses or increased collection for past arrears? That's my first question. Both. But remember that the previous arrears is a separate account, which is to be kept for incentives. But otherwise, it includes both collection as well as the actual technical loss reduction. So the AT and T loss is a sum of billing efficiency and the collection efficiency. So that is the sum total of all that makes the AT and T loss. Secondly, on CGPL, sir, are we still negotiating it or we have dropped the idea of getting any raise? And second and related question is that is the KPN KPC concession contract, has it been extended? So KPC contract is under extension. The government has approved the rules for extension. There is some procedural clarity that is required for all the license renewals. We are not the only mine. Therefore, once that's relating to tax. So once that happens, then all the licenses which are due for renewal will come up. Ours is due at the end of this year. So before that, expectation is that, that issue will be sorted out by the government and the license will be renewed. Currently, on the solar pump, are we expecting a massive jump in FY 2022 given that the CUI 2022, there was a huge target of 1.75 lakh solar pump. So and are we booking subsidy in the top line for solar pump? And how much is that subsidy? Rough proportion. So so let me share with you that Government of India has a huge plan for solar pumps under Khosum. So from the present three lakh pumps, they are talking of taking it to 38.5 lakhs by 2024. And we are one of the biggest players in the solar pumped area. And because of that, we are expecting that our growth in solar pumped area will be very high and exponential, in fact, in next few years. And there is no subsidy as it is. It's a tender based allocation. So the subsidy is paid by the government directly to us once we complete the work. So the scheme under the government is that 30% is paid by the central government, 30% is paid by the state government and 40% is paid by the consumer. Understood, sir. Last question, if I may squeeze in, sir. So that's why it's a single bid that comes with. So someone like ESS or someone comes with a bid, and that money comes directly to us. So what we mentioned about the three sources is the back end of how the Yes. It's shared, yes, by the agencies. But we are we have a single window here from the bank. Understood. The last question, of course, we understand they're working on the new plan on the deleveraging or, let's say, asset monetization. What is the timeline you think that you will be able to tell the market or tell us about the way forward? All we can say is that we are trying to do that as early as possible. But right now beyond that, we can't give you a date, but remember that we are very seriously working on this. Okay. Understood, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, and best of luck. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Majumdar from BNK Securities. Please go ahead. Hi, good evening sir and thanks for taking my call. I had a question again on the CapEx which was discussed a little while ago. This INR 15,000 crores CapEx excludes the SGD CapEx at Maithan? Yes, yes. Outside, so this is only transmission and distribution. The CapEx for Mythand, Mundra and some of the other Jotovera plants is outside that. That's a statutory requirement, and we need to keep that CapEx. But those are all regulatory CapEx, and they will have the returns, which is determined by CRC. And this 5,607 does not include the transmission PVC contract that we've been talking about. Is that included in the CapEx? No. Not included. So so we are fairly confident of this CapEx target being achieved? Yes. Okay. Okay. Fine. And secondly, my question was on the your solar pumps. Twelve nine two eight is the number of pumps installed in FY twenty one. How much of this came on the Qusum scheme? This is all under the Qusum scheme. So because as I understand, the total orders, which was given in FY twenty one were about 52,000 odd, much lower than what was anticipated earlier. Yes. So it is either under the Khusum or there is a program of the state government. So it's either under that program that it is done, but it's through the government's programs on solarization of pumps at the villages. And this year's target on Khusum, I believe, is fairly aggressive figure of 4 lakhs has been talked about. So what is the realistic figure that we are looking at in terms of the orders to be given under the Tusen scheme? I think what you said is absolutely right. The government program is aggressive and so is our program. But we don't give forward looking numbers, but rest assured that we are also targeting a very aggressive growth. Yes. And we are the biggest player in solar farms. And sir, just to harp a little bit more on this, what are our economics on the solar farms business? Because, see, we are actually assemblers who are outsourcing possibly maybe 60%, 65% of our requirements other than the panel which we make. So our, margins will be significantly lower than the pump motor manufacturer. So what is the economics in terms of the return on on the assets or something that you can share with us? Because, the margin profile would be lower than the integrated manufacturer of a pump motor assembly, right, if I'm not mistaken. No. No. No. Let me share with you that the how we are looking at this business, and that's where our understanding on technology and efficiency is very important. So we have we do backward integration whereby we tie up with pump manufacturers and also work with them on designing of these pumps so that they are high efficiency pump sets and they can be used, in some cases, exclusively manufactured for us. And then along with the solar panels that we supply to them. So our whole concept of supplying of solar pump is to provide an integrated service and also the back end digital integration so that we give the information to the user, the farmer also in terms of how the usage is there and how much he's generating and how much saving that they are getting. So it's a very comprehensive solution that we provide, and we have very good margins when we carry out these work. So do we look at EBITDA margins or return on capital in this business more? Mean, there is very little there's only working capital. There is no other fixed capital. It is the key is really how to churn the maximum sales with minimum investment. And cycle times, therefore, become very critical both on collection of payments, installations, all the cycle is the key, and that's where we believe our edge is going to be. And also the O and M part is integral part. So since we do the O and M for five years, so that also gives us the edge of providing better quality service to the consumer. Right. And receivables is not a big issue because these projects are all more or less the orders are placed when the funding is in place, right, as I understand, but the node latency. Yes. But then there is a procedure aspect of it, which is where we believe that digitization of the whole process enables us to speedily submit the bills, get the verifications done, etcetera. So there's a lot of I think that those are also intricacies from a commercial side. Okay. You. Just one last bookkeeping question. This higher dividend income from Trust Energy in the stand alone numbers in Q4 of twenty twenty. Could you just give us some more details on that? Okay. Rahul will explain you that. We'll just separately he'll explain you that. It's a one off thing. Okay. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bhavan Bhatrani from SBI Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. A couple of questions. On the Delhi distribution side, my observation was that the average power purchase cost actually reduced to INR 6, shared under INR 6 from INR 6.5, which seems to be an excellent performance. If you could help us what drove this and the regulation change which came with more than twenty five year plans where you can go out of the PPA and where you're paying fixed charges without going forward, has that helped, or that's something which is futuristic, which we can see going forward? So the difference between the previous year and this year was that in the previous year, there was a huge area payment that had happened to both the generating companies as well as the transmission company, that was not there in this year, and that is why the power purchase costs came down. As you know that the CRC comes up with five year regulations on tariff for transmission and generating companies, especially the CPSUs. So the lag in issuing the order led to areas that had to be paid in the previous year. This year, there was nothing like that, and that is why the cost has come down. The benefit of twenty five years and coming out of some PPAs, the twenty five year period is expiring, that will come in the FY 'twenty two. Sure. So will that help in reducing the regulatory assets, which has been that the trend actually which going down has actually turned, and it's been starting moving up. Yes. It it will help in bringing down your overall cost and thereby reducing your net outflow. Apart from that, there has been also Government of India notifications to state regulators and state governments that no new regulatory asset has to be created. And whatever has been created has to be amortized over a period of time as per the tariff policy. So there is a lot of push now from Government of India also as well as Aptel that regulatory assets needs to be amortized, and it cannot keep on adding in future. Sure. The second question is on the renewable side. So I mean, it seems you're disappointing to see only 10 megawatt incremental addition. We had a similar kind of a pipeline last year. So what actually resulted in this low capacity addition, we all I mean, we the aspiration of fourfold in five years has actually become in in four years. So the the delay in completion of some of the projects was because some of these panels that we had ordered, they came late. But these were primarily planned for this year only. It was not that they were planned for last year. And as Ramesh mentioned, that many of these projects are in final stages of completion. And within first half, you will find that large number of these capacities will get commissioned. And these projects have a certain it's not just setting up of the project, but also it has to be timed along with the evacuation arrangement. Some of the projects in Gujarat and other locations, the evacuation lines are expected in this month and next month, and then only these projects can be commissioned. So the timing is very important with the evacuation arrangement. And we went to book commission 600 megawatt hours in this quarter, but that's because of the initial period of pandemic and projects came to a halt in the initial first four, five months. We had to push it to the next quarter and and thereabouts. That's why you see that last year, we couldn't do substantially. Okay. That's the next question. Just last bit, if you could help us with the total receivables on both the TPREL and Valvil? Yeah. We'll be able to share that. Yes. And there has been huge improvement in the collections from all discounts, notwithstanding the COVID. And excepting for Andhra where there is a litigation, rest of the places, the situation is very good. Sure. Yes. Thank you so much for taking my questions. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Murtusa Arciwala from Kotak Securities. Before we take the next question, we would like to inform participants to please limit your questions to one per participant. Mr. Arciwala, you may go ahead, please. Yeah. Thank you so much, sir. Just on you know, while several people have asked on the invite towards the the larger opportunity in a potential renewable IPO. Just wanted to check, would this just be of the development portfolio or it could also include Tata Power Solar? And so to that extent, is the Tata Power Solar merger contingent upon how the plans sort of work out? That's one part. The second is any target you could give outside of the renewable piece, any targets on this investment targets for FY 2022 from asset sales? Yeah. No. So on the on the, in rate, wanna just reiterate. I don't think we we can say today anything like IPO and offer that word that you use. I think they're looking at the whole spectrum. It could be IPO, could not be IPO, could be Invict, may not be Invict. So I think they're looking at the whole space on a whiteboard. So we'll we'll as soon as we decide, I think it would come through anyway. Certainly, we're looking at all angles. The other question you asked is other targets. Yes, we are targeting over nearly INR1300 crores of divestment this year on various assets, which are under process and some collecting the balance receivables on the once we have sold also. So that's the other thing we will be chasing. Sure. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhinit from MK Global. Please go ahead. My question is, if you look at the Slide 51, it gives you the confirmation Speak a little louder. Can you speak again? Sorry. Sorry. Am I audible? Yeah. I'm in. Yeah. Yeah. So if I look into the availability, please consulted view for F 2021, is on Slide 51. So we have done phenomenally well on the sales, right, around INR 4,000 crores to, I think, around INR 6,000 crores. But both the EBITDA and PAT looks to be flattish on a y o y basis with debt almost 1,000 crores higher. So I mean, though some of the pieces that you said are still in early evolving ways, is this something that we are growing at incremental growth is coming at a lower margin or something of that sort if you can explain? See, I think that you'll have to appreciate that the addition capacity addition has been very minimal in this year. But as soon as we hit the balanced capacity, I think you will see a definite shift in numbers. So I think FY 'twenty two that way, maybe significantly better because there's going to be a much higher capacity addition straight away, along with, of course, the fact that we had one of the worst wind years last year. So that also will be it's not that these are cycled. So we expect that the overall portfolio will deliver a much better result next year. And also remember that there's a good EPC pipeline also there. So we expect the numbers to be improving in next year considerably. So shall we take the next question? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we take the last question from the line of Shubadit Mitra from JM Financial. Please go ahead. Good evening and thank you for the opportunity. A couple of questions from my side. Firstly, if it's possible to share the actual operational cash flow number that you're looking at and or as a subsidiaries and if you break up in terms of how much is coming from the arrears, if that's possible to share? The incentive on past recovery was about INR 40 crores last year. Okay. And what would be the operational cash flow number, that's a good thing? So as we said, the PAT was INR 28 crores for all put together. Cash flow, we will share it with the company. Understood. And lastly, with regard to your targets in terms of the addition on the solar front where, you know, even on the EPC side, you're looking at about two gigawatt of annual capacity addition. Given the current scenario where at least what we hear is, you know, there is a bit of a slowdown in terms of specie tenders, The current pipeline for FY 'twenty two seems to be anywhere between three to four gigawatts. Are you seeing some near term speed breakers coming up maybe in FY 'twenty two? Yes. We are definitely expecting. In fact, we have already started the year winning a two fifty megawatt project Maharashtra. And we are expecting bids in Maharashtra and in Madhya Pradesh and Gujarat and Rajasthan. So we are expecting large number of bids to come. As per our assessment, there is nearly 10,000 megawatt of bids, which are expected in next six months. We are also expecting a large number of bids also for hybrid solutions, which consists of both wind and also thermal and solar. So I think that there is a huge pipeline. And considering the ambitious plan that the country has and also that the RPO obligations, many of the states are not able to meet and the Electricity Act amendment, which is going to enforce it, we do expect that the pace will pick up once the COVID situation reduces a little bit. Understood. Thanks. That's it from my side. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to Doctor. Sinha for closing comments. So thank you very much for the opportunity to interact with all the analysts and investors today in the call. And I do expect that we will continue the conversation and discussion on this. In case any one of you have missed out any question or have further questions, please connect with my colleagues, Kasuri and Rahul. We'll be able to provide you all the information that you require. We have been improving in the quality of dissemination of information. And you would have seen in this time's presentation, there has been lot of details providing as well as also some of these initiatives that we have taken on ESG front. And I do look forward for your feedback to improve the quality of presentation and the data that is being provided to you. So once again, thank you very much. Please take care. Stay safe. This is tough phase. We'll all come out of it. Thank you very much, sir.