Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Tata Power Q2 FY23 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. Today, we have Tata Power management team on the call with us. I now hand the conference over to Dr. Praveer Sinha, CEO and MD of Tata Power. Thank you, and over to you, Dr. Sinha.
Thank you very much, and good evening to everyone, and thanks for joining for the Q2 analyst call. On behalf of Tata Power, I would like to wish all of you a very happy Diwali and also my best wishes for the festive season. Today in the call, I am joined by my colleagues, Sanjeev Churiwala, CFO; Jinendra Patil, our financial controller; Kasturi and Rajesh Ladhani from the investor relations, and few other colleagues from my finance team. Let me first of all start with giving you some background about the consumption of power in the country. What we have seen in last six months is that there has been a huge increase in the requirement of power. The peak power went and touched something like 207-209 gigawatt.
Also in terms of energy, the increase has been nearly 10% in the last six months. Of course, in the last quarter, the demand was little subdued because of extended monsoons, which actually went right up to September and even in October. This also was a period when we saw that during the month of especially April and May, there was a shortage of coal. During that period, the peak prices of power went up in the exchange. Since then, there has been much lower peak prices. Also there is a capping of peak price that has been done by the regulator. During this period, Tata Power has done exceedingly well.
In the last quarter, our PAT has grown, and also, our revenue has grown, and EBITDA has grown. In this quarter, PAT has grown by nearly 49%. Sorry, by 85% from INR 506 crores last year to INR 935. Our revenue has grown by 49% from INR 9,502 crores to INR 14,163. Our EBITDA has grown by 18% from 1,732 to 2,043. If we look at the H1 data also, you find that in H1 also, like, the quarter, the PAT has grown by 87% from INR 971 to INR 1,890. The revenue has grown by 49% from INR 19,476 to INR 28,939.
The EBITDA has grown by 1% from 4,097 to 4,150. This growth has been on back of excellent performance by all our businesses. Our existing generation business, hydro business, coal business, all of them have done very well. Our coal mines have also done exceedingly well on back of high prices, of course. Mundra, we have been able to operate the plant under Section 11. The interim order of the regulator has ensured that we get the full fixed cost. Also, states who were not scheduling the power have to pay the fixed cost as we had shown the availability of the plant.
Now we are of course expecting the order on the full passthrough of coal costs, which will give us a further improvement in our performance in the subsequent quarter. We have also seen all our other businesses doing very well. The usable capacity till today the utility scale is something like 5,600 MW on the back of the 850 MW of projects that was won in the last quarter. This includes 3,870 MW of operating plants and another 1,790 MW of projects which are under different stages of implementation.
We expect that in coming years, with the type of increases, improvements that we have seen in our tariff in winning projects, we will be able to add large quantity of such big projects in different parts of the country. These will not only be just pure solar or pure wind, but will be hybrid projects also. We also won projects under the EPC route, where we won projects of 125 megawatts from NHPC and megawatts from SJVN. We implemented during this period 625 megawatts of third-party EPC projects also. We have a very healthy order book of nearly 3,800 megawatts with the value of nearly INR 15,000 crores. Our 4 gigawatts manufacturing facility is going well.
The work has started at site and ordering of main equipment have taken place, and we expect to roll out of the first of the module from the plant by next year, July, August, and the first of the sale by next year, December. That will help us in meeting our future requirement of cell and module for our projects and also for the EPC projects and rooftop projects. In the rooftop business, we commissioned 138 MW of capacity during this period, and we also won 330 MW of orders equating to INR 1,236 crores. With this, our presence in more than 265 districts of the country have happened in more than 100 cities.
We expect that with our present order book of nearly 400 MW, with a value of nearly INR 1,500 crore, we'll be able to grow this business many more times than what we have done in the previous year and quarter. We already have a cumulative rooftop portfolio of about 1,150 MW, and this keeps on increasing every month and every quarter. In the solar pump business, we installed nearly 6,000 pumps in Q2, taking our total installation to 17,000 pumps. We expect that with more than 18,000 pumps across India, we will have a major presence in most of the states in the country.
On the e-mobility, we added 722 public chargers, and we have now more than 3,000 public chargers in different parts of the country, including highways. We have nearly 23,000 home chargers. Apart from this, we have about 240 bus chargers in different cities in the country. The transmission and distribution continues to be very steady and has been growing at a very fast pace. During the quarter, we took over the South-East UP Power Transmission Company, the SPV company, to the Resurgent platform. Also, the work on the NRSS-XXXVI transmission project has started, and we expect that we will be able to complete all these projects in next 6 months to 12 months progressively, in these locations.
also, we have been able to push our smart meter initiative, and we have nearly 4 lakh smart meters installed in Delhi, Mumbai, and in different parts of Odisha. We expect that, slowly we'll be able to cover in next 3 years, virtually all our customers in these places. Our distribution business in Odisha, which, we took over progressively in last 2 years, have done exceedingly well. We have been able to not only, reduce the AT&C losses to a very large extent, but have been able to also improve the reliability and customer connect. Excellent service is being provided to our customers. Many of the legacy issues over there have been sorted out. There were nearly 20 lakh meters that we replaced, which were not working and on where, the legacy meters, the electromechanical meters.
That has helped us in improving the billing efficiency and also giving the correct consumption that is being done by the consumers. The results of that will start coming in the subsequent quarters. Moving to our balance sheet. We have been able to ensure that our net debt continues to be less than INR 40,000 crore. It's about 39,000 crore. This is in spite of the fact that we have done more than INR 3,000 crore of capital investment in this year. Our working capital also has improved because of better collections from all our businesses, including our renewable business. We have started getting the money from some of the states which earlier were delaying the payment.
We do expect that all the old outstanding will get liquidated in next few quarters. Our net debt to underlying EBITDA has improved from 3.6 in last quarter to 3.5 in this quarter. Similarly, our net debt to equity has also improved from 1.55 to 1.32. We expect that going forward, we'll be able to maintain at these levels, notwithstanding the fact that there's large amount of CapEx that has been planned in our renewable, transmission and distribution business. As I have been mentioning earlier, Adani Power has been continuously moving towards the long-term aspiration.
The twelfth consecutive quarter of good performance shows that huge amount of foundational changes have happened, which is ensuring that sustained performance and results are being provided. I think the directional change that we have seen will help us to further improve in the coming quarters. We have of course shared with you the detailed deck of our quarterly results, and I now look forward to have your question and the floor is now open for Q&A.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Participants who wish to ask a question may kindly press star one on your touch-tone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital. Kindly proceed.
Yeah. Good evening, sir, and congratulations on good set of numbers. My first question is on the Mundra short-term arrangement. Is it being extended for 31 October 2022? Have you heard anything from the government? Secondly, are you booking the tariff completely on cost plus for the quarter? Or is there something which is still being pursued at CERC?
Thank you, Mohit. First of all, the existing arrangement has been extended up to 31 December, and we're not sure whether it will get further extended. The supply under section eleven continues up to 31 December. Secondly, right now we have booked the Mundra tariff based on what you know, Ministry of Power has given as an interim tariff.
The difference between the interim and the actual tariff that is to be decided by CERC. As we had shared with you earlier, under Section 11, any generation has to be on a cost plus basis. That means actual cost that you have incurred will be paid to you. That was the principle on which even the interim order of CERC came, whereby they gave us the full charge for capacity, which is INR 0.90 and no deduction was allowed. Also states which were not scheduling power, they had to pay because we were showing the availability. The Section 11 principle is very well laid out, and we expect that once the final order comes, full pass through of coal will be given to us.
That's good, sir. Thanks. Secondly, what is the status of Mundra long-term draft supplementary power purchase agreement? Where are we right now and when do you think we'll be able to resolve this entire thing?
Since the existing arrangement is going on, Gujarat government has been going a little slow on finalizing the Mundra arrangement. Let's wait and watch. If the existing arrangement continues, this provides us the opportunity to do the supply of power on cost plus basis. Or if that does not get extended, then of course the Gujarat government would come forward and finalize an arrangement which is acceptable to both sides.
I think, for the present we will continue with the existing arrangement and if there is something that is required, we will discuss and reach an understanding.
That's good, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Swapnil Maheshwari from Edelweiss. Kindly proceed.
Yeah. Hello, sir. Good evening. Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is, during the quarter, in Mundra, was there any reversal of excessive provision? Because post the tariff orders, which actually got effected from fifth of May. Before that, for about 35 days, you were, you know, outside the Section 11. Post this tariff order, is there any excess provision that has been reversed during the quarter?
See, now, what had happened when the fifth May notification came, it talked about that the fixed cost of the capacity charge will be paid as per the PPA or if there's any agreement. Since there was no agreement, but notwithstanding that, Gujarat was only paying as per INR 0.70 and not the full amount, because they were considering that the interim arrangement that we were trying to sort it out with them, the rebate will be given. The interim order of CERC mentioned that full fixed cost of capacity charge has to be given. That reversal has happened in the quarter. Other than that, we have not done any other reversal.
Yeah. Sir, what is that amount, sir? If you can quantify, please.
It's INR 0.20 per unit. Whatever we have supplied to Gujarat and Maharashtra, that has been. To the other states, they have to pay the full fixed cost, even if they are not scheduling the power.
If I could add, if you see the notes on accounts, there we have actually specified the breakup, amount, including amounts pertaining to the previous period. The total amount that we have been able to recognize is INR 461 crores, and out of that, INR 151 crores pertains to the previous quarter. Okay. Fair enough, sir. Sir, my second question was on the receivable side. You did mention we expect to, you know, see some sort of liquidation in the ensuing quarters, but this is for the second consecutive quarter we have seen that the receivables have been a bit elevated. Any specific reasons? I understand this is from, you know, the likes of Odisha and Mundra.
Any specific thing that you would want to highlight that is it some sort of a sticky issue somewhere? I think, can I answer that? Yes. There are I think a couple of things. As you correctly predicted, right, given that the energy cost has gone up and consequently the revenues are high, the receivables would also be high. That doesn't mean the quality of our receivables have deteriorated. It's just the overall quantum, which has gone up. In terms of our receivable days, we are absolutely well within control. The good part is many of our sticky receivables that we have been discussing in the past, for example, Andhra Pradesh and other places, they have now started paying us in installments, including all the disputed amount.
We would see quite a good liquidation happening in the subsequent quarters coming in. Similarly, in Mumbai, where they were delaying payments, now they also started paying, and we'll see that the liquidation also happening in the subsequent two to four months. I think overall the receivables is absolutely within control and as per the plan. Fair enough, sir. Got it. Thank you so much. Wish you all the best. I'll get back in queue.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants, if you wish to ask a question, kindly press star one. The next question is from the line of Dhruv Muchhal from HDFC. Kindly proceed.
Yeah, sir. Thank you so much. You mentioned that there is a gap between the interim tariff and the final tariff based on the full fuel cost pass through mechanism under Section 11. Possible to share what the gap is, which will help us understand the potential benefit that is likely to accrue.
Right now it will be little premature to share with you because till such time the final order of CERC comes, we do not know exactly what we ultimately get approved by them. Let's wait for their order. We expect that order to come in November, and then we'll be able to work out the exact quantum and share it.
Yeah. To add to Dr. Sinha, I think, our apologies again, and this was a lot of discussion in quarter one that in our investor deck, we are not giving the separate breakup for our coal profit and renewable profit. We did mention over there that time that, you know, there are certain discussions which is under progress both at the CERC level and as well with the GUVNL. We did not want to kind of get into a dispute by putting a certain amount. The good part is, as we had mentioned last time, that we will see some drawback happening in quarter two, which has now happened. The amount of INR 461 crore that we mentioned.
We are kind of also expecting that, depending upon the kind of order we get, you know, a good material amount should come and hit, you know, our bottom line, positively in quarter three. At this moment, as Dr. Sinha said, we are not in a position to share you the exact breakups.
I guess Dhruv got his answer.
Thank you, sir.
The next question is from the line of Abhinav Anand from Emkay Global. Kindly proceed.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. On the solar EPC side, the order book is quite healthy, which is, you know, vital. Just wanted to understand, you know, in the last few months or maybe in the last 2 quarters, have you seen an increased competition? We saw, you know, major number of contracts that Tata Power won earlier was from state, you know, PSEs like NTPC, SJVN, and all. Recently, we saw one of your competitors winning a large project in excess of INR 2,000 crore, and they are now backing a large corporate. So any increased competition that you see in this space?
I think the players are the same. Only thing is, what we are seeing is that, the, you know, bids are coming at a much higher rate. Unlike earlier when it went up to INR 1.99 and INR 2, they are now all in the range of INR 2.50-INR 3, depending the location of the plant and, whether the land is being given and what are the profile of the generation that is required. I think there is much more seriousness and credibility that is coming in the bidding process rather than many who were coming and bidding numbers which they were finding it difficult to raise.
Okay. Secondly, I understand that Mundra, obviously Mundra is merged. Is it possible to give some, you know, ballpark number what has been the, you know, performance of Mundra for either 1H or 2H? We are not giving a separate breakup here. I think, it's kind of all merged in the, in the overall generation business. But as I mentioned earlier, definitely our losses, kind of partly covered, because of, the tariff order that we received, the INR 462 crore drawback that we did. Of course, the difference between what has been allowed as a tariff and what is the expected tariff is still in the CERC. Once we get a clarity on that, we'll have a better understanding of the Mundra profit and the coal mine.
For us, both of them are clubbed into one because they are made for each other.
Okay. I'm just assuming that, you know, Praveer Sinha has told that this arrangement is still 3, 2. Let's assume in a hypothesis, when this doesn't continue and your long-term arrangement that you are talking about still takes some time. I mean, what's the, you know, larger picture, I mean, long-term picture that we can understand on Mundra then?
What we need to understand is that even with the present pass-through costs, we are still very competitive in Mundra Asset. They will definitely like to schedule power from this plant compared to many others who are at a much higher price. Secondly, once the principles are being laid in the CERC order and all that, hopefully around that only the final discussion and negotiation will take place. It will not be on a principle which will be very different than what is decided by CERC. That's what is our expectation.
Broadly, the principle is near about the cost pass-through, right?
Yes, absolutely right.
Okay, sir. Thanks. Those are the questions.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital. Kindly proceed.
Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is that net cash flow from operating activities at consolidated level has reduced from INR 2,412 crore in H1 FY 2022 to INR 2,138 crore in H1 FY 2023, if I look at the BSE filing. What qualitatively explains the decline in the net cash flow from operating activity, given there has been a strong P&L performance?
Just hold on. Are you talking about the cash flow from operating activities?
Yes. At the consolidated level. H1 FY 2023 compared with H1 FY 2022.
I think if you look at that particular sheet, which is a complete long page, has a complete variance analysis, right? There are items which is moving up and down. But yeah, by and large, from INR 2,400 crores that we've seen in 2021 to almost INR 2,200 crores. For this size of the business, there'll be small items going up here and there, but we don't see any significant change in the trend.
Right. I mean, since we asked this question, I see a lot of moving parts. It's difficult to decipher because there are regulatory, you know, deferral account assets also, you know, seeing. Obviously the P&L growth has been quite strong in first half of the year, thanks to the elevated coal price, among other factors. Somehow the working capital seems to have increased.
As I said earlier, working capital, if you see, it's important to link it with the growth in the revenue because at various locations we'll have credit periods. To that extent, higher revenue leads to a higher trade receivables, which are kind of all good and not overdue in the sense. I think there will be higher working capital linked to a higher revenue. In terms of the overall aging of our debtors, that's our DSO, those are all within control.
Sure. My second question is in relation to slide 18 of the presentation, where, you know, again, Q2 FY 2023, EBITDA before elimination has gone up sequentially from Q1. It's gone up to INR 3,222 crore from INR 2,798 crore. However, elimination has increased quite sharply. They are almost INR 1,229 crore in Q2 versus INR 691 crore in Q1. When we look at a segment-wise analysis and try to, you know, understand the performance, this elimination increase is simply too high, and that is driving a reduction in EBITDA on a sequential basis. What explains such a sharp increase in elimination?
Yeah, this is basically on a consolidated basis, we have the dividend which will get eliminated between the two companies, right? Of course, that also reflects that we have received higher dividends. To that extent, that elimination is purely on account of dividends.
Okay. That's basically the reflection of the higher dividends received from the coal mine.
Yes.
You know, finally on Mundra, you know, following Section 11 of, you know, what is the underrecovery basis, the tariffs that you have charged so far? What is it that you're expecting from the regulator to get a cost-reflective tariff?
Well, I think this is an indirect way of asking the same question. Given that we are already with CERC, the hearing has happened, and we are expecting the outcome very soon. I think it's better to wait for a couple of months so that we can give you a very precise answer.
Sure. Last question is on the solar EPC, you know, revenue and margins for both utility scale solar and EPC solar farms. The revenue seem to have come off fair bit year-on-year. Margins in Q2 have gone up sharply on a sequential basis. If you could please help, you know, explain what explains this volatility.
Yeah, I think the observation is absolutely correct, and I think this goes back to the quarter one conversation where under EPC we had a negative PAT margin. We kind of went back to the drawing board to see, you know, how best to claw back our profits. A couple of things that we have done is, A, some of the projects, which were kind of, dragging down our profitability with, we have agreed, with the parties and the vendors to kind of defer those projects, and to take the benefit of the reducing cell and module prices. As well as, of course, as you are aware, the steel prices also came down by 35%. That is one.
Because some of the projects were deferred, we were able to re-estimate the cost to completion, which resulted in write back of some of those provisions that we were making. I think the better way to look at the H1 EPC margin in totality, which is kind of close to about 2%. Ideally, we would like to have a higher PAT margin going forward, but at least the situation has improved from where we were in quarter one.
Sure. Thank you so much for answering my questions. I wish you all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jemish Koshy from JP Morgan. Kindly proceed.
Yeah, hi sir. Thanks for the opportunity. A couple of questions. Firstly, on Mundra plant. I was just trying to understand if you, I mean, you were referring to, you know, a bit of slowdown on the part of Gujarat government with respect to the resolution. Is it got something to do with subdued demand environment in the second quarter, or how should we look at it?
Subdued demand, no. The demand was not subdued in Gujarat. In fact, we have been operating three plants exclusively for Gujarat during this period. The demand has been very much there and this is one of the big suppliers. In fact, in terms of single plant, this is the largest supplier of power to Gujarat. Going forward also, our confidence is that the Section 11 is only up to thirty-first December. They will continue to have the similar requirement in next year also and in the summer periods and all. They will definitely come to some arrangement, and this plant will continue to supply and be one of the main suppliers of power to Gujarat in the coming years.
Mm-hmm. Okay. Sir, other than Gujarat, are there any other states that are also asking for power? Because there were some media articles quoting that, you know, Rajasthan was also looking to tap power from Mundra plant. Just trying to understand that part.
Apart from Gujarat, Maharashtra continues to take power, and also for a certain period of time, Rajasthan has taken. Three states have been regularly procuring power from Mundra.
Understood. Sir, I think you have explained it in previous call as well, but just trying to understand better. Can you help us understand what is the way the accounts are being booked? I mean, the tariffs are being booked at the moment for Mundra plant?
Right now, we have booked based on the full capacity charge and also, whatever is the notified interim tariff by Ministry of Power. Every two weeks they come up with the notification based on the cost of the ICI cost of coal. The final cost of coal will be whatever is the actual cost of coal that we have incurred, for operating the plant.
Understood. Just clarifying on that second part. Essentially there is no under-recovery either on the fixed cost part or on the variable cost. Is my understanding correct?
On fixed there is no difference. On the variable, there is a difference right now on the, whatever is the interim notified price and the actual price. That difference calculations have been given to CERC. That delta difference, whatever is there, once CERC notifies it, we will account for it.
Okay. Got it. Secondly, bookkeeping question, sir. What is the dividend amount from the subsidiary to parent in Q2 and first half? If you can provide that.
Dividend?
Yes.
Dividend in Q2? It's about INR 1,100 in Q2, quarter two.
It's INR 1,102 crores.
Yeah, that's correct.
This is for first half, is it?
That is for quarter two and 1,800 MW for H1 also together.
Okay, sure. Got it, sir. Thank you very much, and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aniket Mittal from SBI Mutual Fund. Kindly proceed.
Yes, thank you for the opportunity. A few questions. Firstly on the EPC front, in slide nine of your presentation, you've mentioned that there have been some planned rescheduling of large projects on the EPC. If you could elaborate on that, and which are these large projects that have gotten rescheduled.
Well, I think this is a one-on-one conversation with the various parties. I think suffice to say that some of the large projects have been rescheduled, and of course with the consent of the parties, to the extent that party also realizes that at the current elevated prices of cells and modules, it won't be possible for many players or EPC players to deliver the project on time, and hence it can be mutually agreed.
Okay. If I were to look at your current order book of almost INR 15,000 crores, how do I look at it from an execution timeline perspective? If you could give some color on that.
Execution normally for any such EPC project that we do for third parties or also for in-house would normally range from 12 months to 18 months. Depending upon the kind of project scheduling, the talent, you know, the period can get on. On average, you can presume about roughly 18 months.
We're just trying to understand if there are any delays or projects, you know, that have gotten stuck because of rescheduling.
Today, this is planned rescheduling that I was talking about.
Okay. The other question is, when I look at the numbers for TRPN, there seems to be a very large swing on a YOY basis. I think against the profit of INR 210 crore last year, there's been a loss of INR 29 crore reported this year. What's the reason for that?
Foreign exchange gain. There was a one-time foreign exchange gain, which was booked last year.
Okay.
INR 200 crores, yeah.
Okay. It's turned into a loss this year of INR 29 crores. API.
Yes. Are you referring to slide number 19 of the deck?
Yes. Slide number 19 on the deck.
You're looking at the Trust Energy Resources Pte. Ltd. Shipping company, right?
If you could look at slide 18 and see. I think slide 18, you'll find the numbers for 2Q. Against INR 214 crores of profit last year, it's coming at -INR 29 crores.
Profit shipping, I think. Forex gain booked. Yeah. We had booked INR 200 crore of Forex gain last year for the same period.
Okay.
On account of.
INR 14 crores.
That was for sale of shipping that was done since that money was at that time parked in Singapore. We brought it over here, we booked INR 214 crores of Forex.
Okay. Just a related sort of question on the EPC front. When I look at the renewable capacity that we have under development, which is I think 1.8 gigawatts, the commissioning timeline, could you help me on that in terms of if I-
Most of them are next 12-18 months. Our target is that, by March 2024, most of all of them will get commissioned. That's the timeline.
Okay. How much do you plan to do in FY 2023 and how much in FY 2024?
We can share the details. I don't have it right now, but we can give you.
Okay. Yeah.
Ballpark, for the first advance, we have commissioned 450 MW.
No.
Commissioned.
That is our own utility scale.
Yeah. The question was on our own utility scale?
No, no. Total.
Total. That we'll share with you separately.
Okay. Just one last question on Mundra. I understand you can't talk about the difference or the under-recovery, but could you help me, what's the average tariff that you've realized from Mundra for 2Q and 1H that you've actually booked in your numbers?
It's about INR 5.50, INR 5.75 around that. The notified tariffs have been between INR 6.20 and INR 4.8/kWh. That's the notified. That's the difference.
We've booked around INR 550-INR 570.
Yeah.
This is for 2Q, or this is for 1H?
Excuse me. Because it's not one H fully. It's only part of one H.
So five fifty for one H.
No, no. Not 550. You are mixing up. See, this whole notification came from fifth of May, so it is not 1H. It is only part of 1H.
Yeah.
That is why we're kind of hesitating in giving you a breakup because it's bit complicated now and, you know, it's better to wait for the complete clarity to emerge. I'm very sure before the next quarter call, we'll have a complete idea as to the exact under-recovery or, you know, to what extent we're losing or gaining.
Okay. No worries. That was it. Thank you. Those were my questions.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Apoorva Bahadur from Investec. Thank you, Prateek.
Hi, sir. Congratulations on the good set of numbers, and thank you for the opportunity. You spoke on this provision write back for the solar EPC business. Can you please share the quantum, how much could be write back in this quarter?
It is difficult to tell you separately because there are many projects and provision write back is on account of various things. You know, it will be difficult to just quantify one number and give it to you. I think as I said in the previous question, that we depending upon the time of completion and then towards when the project is getting completed, we do a true-up for cost to completion. Normally on a conservative basis, we try and make more provisions to be on the safer side.
Given that some of these projects have been rescheduled now and the cost of solar modules, fees have started coming down, we have done a revaluation of the cost to completion and find that we are in a position to claw back some of these provisions.
Okay, sir. Secondly, on your overall green company portfolio, right? The profitability has been lower year-on-year. Now I understand that some part of it would be because of higher depreciation and rise in interest cost. The EBITDA margins also appear weak, especially for CPRES. Can you share the break-up between this operational, I mean the decline in profitability is due to operational issues and also the impact of higher depreciation and interest cost on the renewable portfolio?
We'll share with you. If you see our H1, the EBITDA has actually gone up. It also depends on what sort of wind speed and what sort of solar intensity is there. In the first quarter, we had very good wind speeds and better solar intensity. In the second quarter, because of the extended monsoon, the solar generation was less. The details we can share with you. We can give you better how much the trend change has been.
Okay, sir. That will be very helpful. Sir, also just wanted to check this, in this quarter, this Western Odisha Discom numbers appear quite strong. Is there any one-off or incentive that they have booked during the quarter?
No, we have not booked any incentive. The performance has improved and I mentioned to you our AT&C loss has reduced. Our billing efficiency has improved. Our collection efficiency has improved. I think it's a general performance of the business which has improved. With better billing and better metering, we'll be able to show much better performance in future quarters.
Sir, I understand that. Just, I mean, specific to Western discom, because that appears a bit better than the other discom. Odisha discom seemed to cover at the same, around the same time. Is there anything specific about this?
Western Discom has more of industrial consumers. EHT and HT consumers are very high over there, and that's why it has shown much higher metering in consumption compared to others.
Okay. Got it. Just one last question, if I may, and I'm sorry for harping on again this Mundra issue. But just for sake of clarity, while the notified tariff is around INR 6.20 per kWh, we are booking around INR 5.50 since the notification came. This INR 6.20, there's a further possibility of a further upside if CERC comes up with a favorable order. Is my understanding correct?
No, your understanding is wrong. See, I mentioned to you that they notify the tariff every 15 days. The tariff has changed because the price of ICI index coal has changed. It started from INR 620, it went down to INR 470, and now it has gone to INR 590. It keeps on changing every two weeks. When you get the coal, you get coal over a period of time, and based on the actual cost of coal, you are going to bill them. That is the dated difference that will happen. Till such time the order of CERC does not come out, it would be speculative to give you a number and say that this is the number.
Okay. Sir, the average notified tariff would be around INR 5.50?
No. That's where I'm saying don't get into average. There is a different price on every 15 days basis they are giving. You should then see the 15 notifications that have come. You want that, I will send it to you.
Sure, sir. That will be very helpful.
Otherwise, it's there on the CERC, on the Ministry of Power website also. You can see over there.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much, sir. That's all from my side. Have a good day.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dhruv Muchhal from HDFC Mutual Fund. Thank you, Prateek.
Sorry, I got disconnected earlier. Some of the questions have been answered since. Just one question on the Odisha Discom. We see the performance is improving. We understand the circle is still developing. We also notice that the regulatory assets are increasing. Should we understand this primarily because of the fuel cost or is there some other element to this?
The regulatory assets adjustment takes place on an annual basis. It's a question of timing of some of the regulatory assets which is there, which will get adjusted. As of the end of the year. It has nothing to do with the fuel cost and all that, because in Odisha there is one single tariff that is charged by the generating company. We also charge one single tariff on the consumer. This is because of whether it is the O&M cost or it is on the billing efficiency and things like that. At the end of the year that true-up will take place and you will get the exact numbers of whether there is an increase or decrease. Depending upon that, the tariff fixation takes place for the next year.
Got it. The second, just a follow-up on one of the earlier questions on the shipping company. We understand the delta movement because of the FX, but we wanted to understand what's driving the loss in the current quarter, and probably also in the first half, the profitability is a bit lower. Because we understand that, we used to understand that this was a leasing arrangement where the profitability was largely assured. I'm just trying to understand what's driving the loss.
Is it on the CERC index or the?
Again, the billing that we are doing on shipping is based on the CERC index. Now, once we get the actual cost of shipping that is there, then we'll be able to decide on it, whether that needs to be reversed.
Okay. Got it. Sure. Thank you so much. Thanks.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Ajay Mehta from Wipro Limited. Kindly proceed.
Yeah. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for giving the opportunity to ask this question. My first question, sir, to you is that, considering the environment where the interest rates are rising, what is Tata Power's plan on reducing the debt? Because debt is still at an elevated level, right? Even though YOY has come down, but still the average debt cost has risen from 6-odd% to 7-odd%, right? What is the plan to reduce the debt going forward?
No, I think, when you look at the overall net debt of the company, in spite of all the CapEx that we have done, and of course incremental working capital because of higher revenues, our total net debt is still below INR 40,000.
What is important to look at it from a perspective of the leveraging, you know, from net debt to equity position. Our leveraging is well below 1.5. Our targeted leveraging was 1.5 at the Tata Power level. We're standing at 1.22 right now, as we speak. Interest level, yes. We are kind of around 7%, if you look at the current quarter. When we look at a year back, it was around 6.6%. We have seen about a 40 basis points increase, but that is against almost a 190 basis points increase in the base rate.
I think we have been able to manage our interest rate quite well, including some of the international borrowing that we have done, including recently $20 million borrowing that we did on sustainability-linked loan. All put together, we've been able to kind of contain our overall cost of debt quite well.
Okay. Okay. Thank you for your answer, sir. My second question is, so I just saw this note. There was a cyberattack, right? Even though there's no impact to the financials, and I believe you guys have taken the recourse also. So is there any action still pending to be done which would have an impact on Q3 numbers due to the cyberattack?
No, there's no impact in quarter two also.
Very clearly, the financials, the staff systems and all have been, you know, well protected. It did not have any impact. We did not have any financial loss as well. Our operation, collection was as usual for us. So yeah, we don't see anything happening in quarter three as well.
Okay. Sir, my last question is, what is Tata Power's vision with respect to this EV charging, right? I know it has an increasing footprint quarter after quarter with increase in the number of cities being added, number of clients being added, right? Number of apartments, connectivity is improving. So what is like, the path going forward, like from a next year perspective, in terms of the growth that we see in EV segment?
Our objective is that we need to provide seamless experience to the customer. When we say that, if you are having automobile in your home, you should have a home charger, which we should be able to provide. If you are traveling intercity, whatever charging you need to carry out, you should have a seamless experience over there. For public transportation, the bus charging infrastructure. As far as the home charger and the bus charging is there, that is on a cost-plus basis that we do. As far as the public charger is there, it is on a fee or a subscription model which is there. The consumption of that or the utilization of public chargers is much less today because most of the people are still continue to use the home chargers.
Also, the penetration of the electric vehicle has not happened to that extent. We are creating an infrastructure so that over next 2-3 years, when the penetration of electric vehicle increases, the utilization of these chargers should increase from the present about 2% to about 6% by when it will be able to sustain its operation on it.
Sure, sir. Thank you so much for answering my questions.
Thanks so much.
Thank you. Participants, if you wish to ask a question, kindly press star one. The next question is from the line of Suvarni from Spark Capital. Can we proceed?
Good evening. This is Suvarni from Spark Capital. Sir, what is your view on the international coal prices for the next, say, two quarters and what would be your rationale for that?
Well, globally the coal prices have been very high, and we do not expect that it will reduce at least for next 12 months. We expect that the coal prices will remain high. Now, whether it will be at the present level or a little lower than this, I cannot predict that. Yes, the coal will be in demand, especially imported coal will be in demand, considering the global need for energy substitution.
Sure. Could you share the FOB realization per ton and gross profit per ton for the KPC mine for the second quarter?
We don't do the sale of coal over here, so that details we can give you from the KPC report. We don't have that data. We can share with you the KPC.
Sure. Thank you. All the best.
Thank you. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Dr. Praveer Sinha for closing comments.
Thank you, Vivian, and thank you to everyone for joining in the call. In case you have any further queries, any other details that you would require, please connect with Sukriti and Rajesh Lachhani, and we'll be more than happy to furnish it with you. Once again, season's greetings and all the best for the future.
Thank you. On behalf of Tata Power, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.