Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Tata Power Q3 FY23 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participants' lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes.
Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Dr. Praveen Sinha, CEO and MD Tata Power, for his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, Dr. Sinha.
Thank you, Bikram. Good evening to everyone, thanks for joining the call. On behalf of Tata Power and on my personal self, I would like to wish all of you a very happy, healthy and prosperous 2023. I'm joined today on the call by my colleagues, Sanjeev Churiwala, CFO, Mr. J.V. Patil, Financial Controller, Mr. Kasturi and Mr. Rajesh Lachhani from Investor Relations, few other members from my finance team.
Two days back, the honorable finance minister presented a very balanced budget which had lot of initiatives and programs to push the infrastructure sector. The programs were typically in areas of clean energy, renewable energy, battery storage, pump storage opportunities. Also the long-term view as to how we will move towards a 2030 500 gigawatt of renewable capacity. It is heartening to see that the government is also focused on decarbonizing the economy.
I am sure with all these announcements of the government in the budget, we will be able to move at a very fast pace towards using clean and greener energy in our quest to become Net Zero. As you may recall, Tata Power is the first power company in the country to announce its vision to become Net Zero by 2045, and we are working towards that goal.
The big picture policy support that we saw in the budget was also about creating the transmission line from Leh, Ladakh to bring clean power, solar power from there into the main parts of the country. The support through Viability Gap Funding for battery storage of nearly 4,000 megawatt hours will also help in coming up with clean energy and 24 hours clean energy solutions.
Let me now start talking about the power demand, which we see in last 1 year has grown tremendously. Even in winter months, we are seeing that the peak demand has been in the range of 200-210 gigawatt, and we can expect that this will continue to grow as summer approaches.
On overall basis, we find that in the month of January itself, there has been a 12% increase in power consumption, and we do expect that this trend will only increase going forward as we reach the summer months as they approach us. Also, in the renewable sector, we have seen in the last few weeks that there has been huge price correction, especially in the prices of polysilicon, wafers, cells and modules.
Which will help us to implement many of the projects which had delayed in last 12 to 18 months because of huge increase in the prices of the solar manufacturing, as also in the prices of the various commodities like steel and copper. In the last quarter, we also saw that the Mundra plant could operate at full capacity, supplying to the 3 states of Gujarat, Maharashtra, and Rajasthan.
The recent orders of CERC has helped us that the tariff for Mundra becomes cost reflective. The Section 11 orders during the period 5th May to 31st December has helped us to ensure that the supply of power takes place on a cost reflective basis and the full pass through of coal cost is provided. The benefit of this has been considered in our quarterly performance.
Moving to the financials, Tata Power has reported an excellent quarter, witnessing strong performance from all the business clusters, including our traditional generation business, transmission business and distribution business. Our PAT has grown consistently for the thirteenth successive quarters, demonstrating a very strong business fundamentals.
Consolidated PAT achieved a new record of INR 1,052 crores, which is up by 91%. We also saw a very robust year-on-year growth of 30% in revenue and also a huge increase in our EBITDA by 53% to a record INR 2,880 crores. Our renewable capacity during this quarter has increased to 6,072 MW, with the installed capacity of 6,918 MW, and another 2,154 MW under various stages of implementation.
During Q3, the renewable company that is KPRDL won 255 hybrid projects from Tata Power Delhi Distribution through a e-auction process. Also, it has won other orders from MSEDCL, which consists of 150 megawatts order worth INR 684 crores.
In addition to this, the company has won large number of EPC orders and has a large order book of nearly 3,914 megawatts, which includes the internal projects also. Our 4 gigawatt cell and module factory construction activity is at full swing, and we expect the module plant will be ready by September and the cell plant will be ready by end of December.
We do expect that the modules produced from here will be used for the various projects, both internal as well as third party that will be implemented by us. The KPRDL rooftop business also has seen very good traction in the quarter. 127 megawatts of capacity was installed in the last quarter.
In addition to this, 102 megawatts of new orders have been won during this quarter. The rooftop business, in fact, has a very healthy order book of 368 megawatts worth INR 1,375 crores. The rooftop portfolio has now expanded to 1,300 megawatts cumulatively, with installations right across the whole country. With this, we have a footprint in nearly 275 cities in the country.
It was a good quarter for solar pumps also, with Tata Power executing nearly 12,000 pumps in Q3. In the December month only, we executed 6,300 pumps, which is one of the highest for Tata Power till now. We continue to power green mobility in the country and have partnered with Indian Army to set up EV charging points in Delhi Cantonment area, and are in discussions with many more similar cantonments in other parts of the country.
On an overall basis, Tata Power energized 900 public chargers during Q3, taking our network of public and semi-public chargers to nearly 3,100. Tata Power's EV charging network is now present in more than 500 cities, with the company adding 18 cities during Q3.
We also have installed more than 6,600 home chargers in Q3, taking the total numbers of home chargers to more than 3,000. What we have seen is that there is huge amount of traction, and the main concern that people used to have is no more there while using electric vehicles, either within the city or for their inter-city travel.
Our distribution business in Odisha is doing very good and continues to give excellent service, both in terms of reliability as and also in customer services in all the four discoms in Odisha. With all our four discoms reporting a sharp reduction in AT&C losses, which is nearly 26% on an average compared to 36% one year back. We expect that Odisha discom business will continue to post profit in this quarter as well as in the subsequent quarters.
We have installed, in fact, 5 lakh smart meters across Tata Power discoms across Odisha, Mumbai, and Delhi, which is the highest by any power company in the country. Moving to the balance sheet, I am happy to share that our net debt has reduced further by INR 1,350 crores in December quarter.
The fall was driven by company's robust operating performance, lower CapEx, and inflow of the outstanding proceeds from divestment of Arutmin and other investments. Combination of healthy growth in the operational profit and declining debt has further improved the leverage ratios.
Our net debt to underlying EBITDA has improved from 3.5 in the last quarter to close to 3.0 in this quarter. Our net debt to equity has improved from 1.32 in the prior quarter to 1.23 in this quarter.
We are committed to maintain this healthy leverage going forward. With sustainable development at the heart of our operations, we are pleased to see several agencies acknowledging our efforts. In fact, Tata Power has emerged as the top-ranking power utility in the country by scoring 67 points in S&P rating with 85 percentile. The company has also improved its CDP climate change rating from C in 2021 to B in 2022.
Maithon Power also won the Gold Shield Award and the ICAI Award for Excellence in Financial Reporting for 2020. Tata Power continues to steadily move towards its long-term aspiration based upon businesses of the future while maintaining a healthy balance. This is clearly visible from the improvements seen in the operational and financial metrics in each passing quarter. We look forward to your continued support. With this, I will ask Bikram to go to the question answer session.
Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their desktop phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question.
Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. To ask question, please press star followed by one on your desktop phone now. We have a first question from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. My compliments on a strong quarterly performance. My first question is, as revenue for the quarter as per most accounts includes an amount of INR 4.39 billion, relating to earlier quarters. Could you explain the nature of this income and, what has flown to PBT and, you know, to the PAT level. Does this take care of the entire, amount that you have to recognize for, under the MPP?
Thank you. I think it's a very important question. The answer could be a bit complex, you have to kind of bear with me. As you would already seen, we got this CERC order under Section 11, which talks about complete pass-through of fuel price. This is for the period starting from May to December.
Since we are reporting the quarterly accounts, this amount pertaining to the previous quarter have to be disclosed separately, which we have done in the results as you would have seen. I think the better way to look at is, yes, for the quarter, there's a pass-through which has been agreed upon.
I think, since it also has a previous quarter results, if you have to look at the complete 9 months, result, yes, of course, there will be a backlog that we still need to resolve for, and that is why we are working on the revised PPA to ensure that our losses come down further.
That does not answer my question. What is the impact at the PBT and PAT level for the amount of INR 4.39 billion which is pertaining to earlier quarters?
Yeah. I think this fully goes into PAT, subject to tax of course. The reason is very clear. The cost was absolutely booked in the period when the power was supplied, and we were looking at a differentiated tariff now, which we receive now.
Okay. What is the update on the MPP now? I assume that there was no under-recovery versus sale cost in Q3 or, you know, the set off which was given for the profits that you earned, in the whole nine. You know, was there any under-recovery against the capacity charges? How is the present model playing out now that the Section 11 benefits have ceased? What is the outlook of the final outcome?
There are 2 questions that you have bundled together. A is the capacity charges, which as per the CERC order under Section 11, have to be completely passed on to the producers. Yes, that we will be getting. There's energy charges, which is to ensure there is a complete pass-through of fuel.
While I use the word complete pass-through of fuel, there is this small element of under-recovery because besides fuel, there are various other cost elements, which is also there. There will be some. Of course, there's 1 element of mining profit sharing as well, which is part of the CERC order. That to the extent of the profit mining share, we will have the under-recovery.
How is it progressing now that, in January and for the Q4 quarter, how do the benefits continue or, you know, whether the discussions are ongoing and the outcome expected?
The discussions are ongoing, and given that the Section 11 certification earlier from the MoP is now ratified by CERC, we would expect the revised PPAs to be on almost on similar lines, but the discussions are ongoing right now.
Okay. The amount which has been additionally billed for prior quarters, has that been recovered from the states or is there any dispute regarding those amounts?
No. I think there are a couple of things again here. A is the amount that we have to receive on account of Section 11. The billing has happened now in the month of January, so it's not expected as a recovery in December.
The recovery will happen now. Of course, for the pre-previous period, that is till the next one, there are amounts which need to be recovered across various items, right? That one thing. It's very difficult for us to have a response on the phone. But what we can do is, those who are interested, you can drop a message to Rajesh and then Rajesh will provide you the details.
Sure. The
Yes.
-half of this 0.4, so benefits under Section 11 have still not been recognized. These amounts for prior period, which are flowing into profit, are then relating to what exactly?
No, no. The Section 11 revenues have been fully recognized. What I'm trying to tell you-
Okay.
the amount that was pertaining to the earlier period, INR 439, to your earlier question, it's a complete pass through in the PPAC because the cost that was incurred was already recognized in the previous period.
Got it. Got it. Just my last question on the TPTCL business. In order book at INR 154 billion, it is indeed quite strong. Revenue for the quarter, if I look at the solar utility scale for EPC business, excluding rooftop and pumps, it's below INR 8 billion. Absolute terms and it's down year-on-year. I understand, you know, that certain projects are not getting deferred, but what is the outlook here and the extent of deferrals seems to be pretty high.
Yeah. Let me try and, you know, decode this item by item. If I look at on a 12-month rolling basis, especially on the large scale utility, we almost installed about 1 GW roughly, and almost 500 for the next quarter and the current quarter into the pipeline. For the full year, you can expect about 1.5 GW, which is a pretty decent thing.
When it comes to the EPC, that's where we have gone slow, very strategically, and deferred some of the projects to the subsequent quarters because we have seen the price of the modules and cells were very, very high. Now, Kulat, as you are already seeing, that the prices are significantly coming down. To that extent, you will get those benefits in the subsequent quarters.
That was more of a strategic intent. On the pumps, we took a very strategic position of choosing the states that we want to supply and choosing the kind of SKUs that we want to supply. This was again on account of high prices of modules and high prices of cells. With things now recovering, we will accelerate further now.
Excellent. Thank you and wish you all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in the interest of time and fairness to all participants, kindly just 2 questions, 2 per participant. If you still have more questions, please join the cure session. The next question from Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Good evening, Thank for the opportunity. My first question is that can you confirm the operational capacity of renewables and under construction capacity and the timelines, when you expect this capacity to come up? In the sense, a lot of capacity is expected to come in FY 23 and FY 24, and the expected impact of this portfolio at P 75 level of the direct capacity.
Yeah. We already have an installed capacity of 3.9 gigawatt on the large scale. The total in pipeline is about 2.4 gigawatts. We expect about commissioning of 500 gigawatts in the fourth quarter. For the full year, we should see a close to about 1.5 gigawatt of addition in the large scale project.
The timeline, as I said, 500 will already get commissioned in the current quarter out of 2.4. The way the period goes, this, we start commissioning next year over various quarters. They are in various stages of implementation. And hence, you know, normally you can expect between 12 months to 18 months for the projects that have just been won.
The ones that are in the pipeline, most of them will get executed next year.
Okay. Secondly, I want to say, can you please let us know the coal volumes? I understand the coal volumes are slightly softer side in CY 2022. Can you expect this coal volume to pick up in CY 2023?
Sorry, coal volume in what sense to pick up? It is a-.
million tons, sir. Million ton in the ratio mines.
Shipment coal in mines.
Okay. Are you talking about the coal mining?
Yes. Volumes. Yeah.
Okay.
Million ton. What was the volume for the 9 month, and do you think this should pick up in this year, in the remaining part? What happened last year, I think it was very subdued.
I think, there have been project wins over there which have definitely impacted data for mining. They are in the process of planning for the next year now. I would suggest you drop us a mail and we can let you know as to what kind of plans they will have once we kind of know it.
For example, in KPC, normally, every year we'd have a mining plan of 50 million tons and, you know, it's plus minus 10% depending upon, you know, the various things including the demand supply gap, logistics issues, it could be rains and whatnot, right? Give and take, normally on every calendar year, they tend to have mining of about 50 million tons.
Understood, sir. Thank you and all the best. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question from the line of Puneet Gulati with... From HSBC. Please go ahead.
Yeah. thank you, Subodh. I have a question again on, you know, Mundra. Now that Section 11 is quite clear, done and dusted, can you provide some sense of, you know, profitability at EBITDA level for Mundra and other important metrics for that period, the 9-month period?
I would request you can drop a mail to Rajesh. As we had said in the previous call, Mundra is no more a separate company for us. It's part of the Tata Power, we do not call out a separate item for that. As I said to the previous question, I think we are still under recovery because of the mining profit sharing.
Of course, the disorder for CERC is only for the period of May to December, right? Especially the period of April and May, we still have higher losses. For us, on a YTD basis, we still have a significant under recovery. We just hope that the new agreement that we are proposing or discussing to take care. Unfortunately, we have burnt a lot of cash in this business over the years.
Yeah. I thought the, you know, the order of CERC was quite clear, right? In some sense that 30% of the coal that you take for Mundra, to only to that extent you will have to share the mining profit.
Yeah.
In that context, you should actually be making decent EBITDA, isn't it?
No. If you only look at the quarter because this order pertains to a period beyond the quarter, yes. You know, to the extent that we are sharing the profits, the mine's profits for the coal that we have been consuming, to that extent it will not be-
That is 30%, right? I mean, it is only 30% of the coal that we are consuming, not the whole load, right?
Yes. 30% of the coal load.
Yeah. Would it not have rendered the Section 11 period, you know, a strong EBITDA number?
Actually, what happens is it's important to, again, not just look at a quarter, because, you know-
No, I'm talking about the full Section 11 period starting from May to December. Some sense.
Yes.
the number one can expect, right? I mean, it's-
Of course. Of course.
continuing to future as well.
That is correct. At the EBITDA level, yes. You know, better way to look at it, how does it look like for the entire nine months of duration wherein we had various, kind of arrangements. I think, what's also important is going forward, we should not be making any, you know, under recoveries and that's the main point of discussion right now for us.
All right. Thank you, separately. On the Tata Power Solar, how should one think about the EBITDA margins? You know, you explained about the potential revenue growth. How should one think about the margin profile of this business?
Are you talking about solar rooftops or-
No, the solar EPC business
solar EPC. I think solar EPC normally we have been targeting at a PAT margin of 5%-7%. you know, again, this is at an portfolio level. Some of them may be lower and some of them may be higher.
At an aggregate level, that is what we want to target. If you look at our business for the first 9 months, it has been slightly lower than that because of course we had very high expense in module prices. As a result, we have planned certain deferment of the projects to the subsequent quarter. On a consistent basis, our aim is to kind of have at least a 5% PAT margin on the EPC business.
Yes. If I have my numbers right, I think Q2 had come down to almost stabilized number. It had a nice 9% PAT margin.
Yeah.
That is back to 30%. I thought problem should have been solved by Q2, and now we are on a steady state.
Yes. If you look at the three quarters together YTD, right? YTD, I think it is 3% plus. Yeah.
Correct. YTD is fine because Q1 was bad, right? It was a negative, so loss-making quarter.
Correct. that's why-
Q2 was quite strong.
That is when we decided to take a certain call in doing deferment of some of the projects, including reaching out to some of the suppliers, to renegotiate the prices and everything else. To that extent, we see some better things coming in quarter three. Hopefully with the dip in the module prices that we see now, we should be able to improve on that. Therefore, we are kind of saying that we target a 5% EPC margin, PAT margin.
All right. Okay. That's all from my side. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have next question from the line of Anupam Goswami with BOB Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Hi, good evening, sir. I'll take the Mundra operational numbers later on. My question is on this quarter, now that Section 11 has ceased to operate, do we see any breakeven sort of positioning, Mundra in a new PPA? Or do we actually see some profits coming also in the Mundra unit?
Are you talking about the fourth quarter? Are you referring to that?
Yes, fourth quarter, after the Section 11.
Our intent is to see that if that PPA can be signed in the line of Section 11, at least, the principles that has been set in Section 11. To that extent of mining profit, yes, there might be certain under recovery. You know, even if that happens, you know, I think we have a big relief, given the big quantum of losses that we have been making in the past.
overall, you know, you know, to a bottom line. Say that there will be some recovery continuing in Mundra and, maybe the losses will narrow down, but entirely some profits will not reflect. If I just summarize in one line. Will I be correct in this?
The idea is to recover the fuel cost. The idea is to kind of see that we keep on getting our capacity charges. Yeah, to the extent of the mining profit that we have to share, will have some impact.
Okay. Sir, your capacity charge and fuel cost currently are coming at what level? If you can give me a ballpark sort of number.
We will not have it readily available. In principle, we're looking at the fuel cost pass through. If you drop a message to Rajesh, he might fetch those numbers and share them with you.
Sure. All right. All right. Okay, sir, I'll get back in the queue. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question from the line of Dhananjay Mishra, an investor. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Please go ahead, sir.
Dhananjay.
You ask. Yes, go ahead. I'm sorry to interrupt. There's a little background noise. Please use the handset properly and come to a very quiet place and ask the question so that the management can hear clearly. Go ahead.
Can you please update why there is a drop in the revenue in transmission and distribution system from the last quarter?
Sorry, your voice was not clear.
I think we had seen little reduction in the revenue.
It's Dhananjay.
Okay. No, I think if you break up between transmission and distribution, transmission is a more of a regulated business. We don't have a profit. When it comes to distribution business, we have kind of, you know, done some cleaning up with respect to the Expected Credit Loss, which is kind of looking at the past receivables and trying to recover that, and if not, try and take some hit on the P&L.
Okay, sir. The capacity utilization, current capacity utilization?
Current capacity utilization of which business?
average current capacity utilization.
Are you talking about the Mundra plant? Or it's kind of looking at each segment separately. If you look at the investor deck which has been uploaded, they have the complete breakup.
Thank you, sir. Your next question from the line of Bala Subramanian A with Arihant Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello. Good evening, sir. Congratulations for great set of numbers. My first question, regarding CapEx in solar modules. I think the current capacity around 635 gigawatts. What is the capacity addition is in next two to three years? What is the CapEx amount? If you could throw some light on that.
Yeah. I think in the previous strategy, deck that is already uploaded, in the website, we've kind of said that our intent is to kind of do 2-3 gigawatts every year. We are presently refreshing those strategies. Yes, our plan is to kind of invest big time, into solar. Almost 80%-90% of our capital that we are presently, allocating is going to our green business. I think that trend will continue.
Yes. Thank you.
Thank you. We have next question from the line of Rajesh Majumdar with B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir, and thanks for taking my call. My first question was regarding our module capacity. I have a basic question. Now that the module prices have corrected to $0.21 or so, what is the feasibility of setting up a plant versus importing modules? If the prices continue to correct more hypothetically to slightly more lower levels, is there a long-term viability of this module plant or rather we import at lower levels of cost structure?
Let me try to respond to this. First of all, when you import modules, you need to pay the Basic Customs Duty. Today the customs duty is 40%. Even if we are seeing the reduction in the prices of modules, it will always be much higher than what is the price at which we will be manufacturing. Because what we will be doing, we will be bringing the wafers, making the cell and the module. On wafers there is no customs duty. There is an arbitrage, and I think the cell and modules that we will manufacture will be much more competitive, even with the very low prices of the imported modules that we get from China or any other country.
Is it already in manufacture or it's like, with the foreign will be paying the customs?
I'm not talking about-
Understood.
I just mentioned to you 40% the differential on customs duty is.
Custom Duty, yes.
Even if, theoretically in the wafer prices are 20% lower than Indian prices, it would still be more than the Indian price when it is imported.
Okay. Okay. Thank you. My second question was, we will see a considerable increase in the renewable additions now going forward, hopefully since the prices are falling and there is a renewed focus in the sector.
What I've seen is that despite a year of sterling profits from the joint venture and a strong cash flow, our debt is going up. In the event of our renewable addition going up to 2-2.5 gigawatts per annum, will there be a significant increase in the debt level from the current level?
Yes.
Which is not sustainable.
Yeah, I think the way to look at it is, when we look at a consolidated level, we do a capital allocation across our various businesses. Now, as we speak to you and also as you see the debt, our net debt has actually gone down by INR 1,300 crore in the current quarter.
We have landed with a total debt position of about INR 38,000 crore, right. Yes, we kind of allocate the capital, and the allocation is in the solar right now and in the renewable businesses. But we are mindful of our leverage and total debt as to how to manage it.
You don't see it as an impediment for the long-term growth of the renewable business?
Absolutely not. I think, you know, I think it's really not the correct idea to only look at the absolute debt of when the business is really growing. I would rather encourage everyone to talk about the risk, because finally what matters is levels, finally what matters is the coverage, right? At least if you compare our business, given that we are in the infrastructure space to any other player, we have far, far strong balance sheet.
Great. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.
Thank you. We have next question from the line of Anupam Goswami from BOB Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for taking my question again. My question on the overall vision of the company, where do we see in the growth-oriented, factors, where do we see the capacity growing and, which segments? Is it only the renewable segment that we are trying to grow or are we looking at some transmission lines and those networks? Because that was also a plan at one time, and we haven't seen any movement over there yet.
In last two years, if you see, we went and took over the four distribution companies. We added 9 million customers to our earlier existing 3 million. There has been a huge capacity addition in distribution.
We look at our transmission business. Last year, we went ahead and bid out two of these stress assets, and both those projects are now under implementation. We have been quite aggressive in terms of adding capacity in our distribution and transmission. As we have been earlier also sharing with you that there is a cutoff that we consider for any of these projects in terms of what sort of returns we are looking at there.
While we have been bidding for some of the projects, as we size it or as the valuations that we are doing, we don't feel it will meet our overall objectives. We are very concerned if the margins are not there.
Any bid that we do, we ensure that it meets our overall long-term return metrics. Apart from renewable, we are definitely doing lot of work in distribution and also in the space of transmission. As and when a good opportunity comes, we will be bidding for all those projects.
Sir, renewable, at what run rates, are we adding capacity? Are we looking at?
In this year, we have already more than 2 GW of renewable capacity, which consists of solar plus wind. All these projects will get implemented in next 12 months to 18 months.
All right. Going forward, like FY 2024 and 2025, should we look at a similar run rate of addition?
Yes, absolutely. This excludes the group captive. That also is going at a very fast pace. We can expect at least 500-800 megawatts of group captive getting added every year.
About FY26 or FY27, we will reach about 8-9 gigawatts of capacity, if I'm not wrong.
No, it will be much more than that. Today, we already have, we are having installed capacity of 4. Under construction is 2, and there's another one at 0.5, where we have 1, where work has not started. We're already at 7.5. We keep on adding 2 GW plus the group captive will be much higher than, the number that you mentioned.
Sir, my last question on the, now that Mundra, revising of PPA will come, do we as, down the line, do we see any growth or increase in dividend payouts?
This is a decision that, the board and the shareholders take. Let us see, how the overall performance is there and what pace we can offer.
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. We have next question from the line of Bhavin Vithlani with SBI Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Thank you for joining me. Could you help us with the capital already incurred towards manufacturing?
Of solar's wafers and the solar cell- module assembly and cell. Sir, we will be spending nearly INR 3,400 crore. That's the CapEx plan for that year.
Can you rough estimate of what % of this is already been incurred?
Well, the Right now it's the basic work that is going on, the civil work. Some advances have been given against the equipment. Very difficult at this stage to give you an exact number. This is something which is under implementation. Based on the milestones, the payments are being released to the suppliers.
Sure. Just a follow-up on this. There are news reports about China government banning the export of solar value chain from wafers and before that. In fact, in case, do we have a plan B of alternate sources versus China?
There's no ban on any supply of grid. They are actually setting up huge capacities. For them it's very necessary that they keep on supplying globally to meet the load of renewable power. The type of capacity additions that they are doing, it is very important for them to, you know, continue supplying to all large users of the renewable power.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you. We have next question from the line of Abhineet Anand from Emkay Global. Please go ahead.
Yeah. I was just trying to, you know, understand the profitability for the quarter and nine months. You know, we have made a profit of INR 1,050, and it includes around INR 439 crore of the Mundra stock that we are talking about. Is it fair to understand that if I subtract that number, that could be the adjusted PAT, or are there more adjustments to this?
are you talking about the subsequent quarters?
No, I'm just talking about 3Q, sir. We reported INR 1,050 gross profit.
No. what is happening is because of the profit for the quarter, while at Tata Power level, we had a Deferred Tax Asset. Even though we have a profit now, we have a reversal of the Deferred Tax Asset. While you're looking at that INR 439 crore, there's also a reversal of INR 451 crore in Deferred Tax Asset. By and large, that is nullifying the overall profit.
Okay. Largely the reported number is the adjusted profit 3 years ending, right?
In a way.
Yeah. Second is, you know, if I have to arrive at a mining profit, if I understand right, I have to add the investment company's losses and profit of the coal company, right? Is there anything else that needs to be done?
I guess that is the right approach.
If I've done that, I think probably for the quarter we made INR 7 billion or profit versus INR 560 last year on a year-over-year basis, which is...
Yeah. What happens is, you know, again, if you look at the tax and rates and the tooling tax, there are various other things that need to be considered. What you can do is you can get in touch with Rajesh, and he'll be able to share some more details. I think there's something already as part of your investors deck which is uploaded, that will also give you some understanding.
Yeah. I was just, sort of, you know, reading that out only because there are two coal parts. One is the investment company, you know, companies, and there is a coal mine.
Yes. You're looking at slide 19, yeah?
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Okay. Thanks a lot, sir. Those are my questions.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have next question from the line of Atul Tiwari from Citi. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Just 1 question on Mundra UMPP. Now that Section 11 as of now is no longer operative and the new supplemental PPA has yet not been signed. Could you share for the current quarter, what is the PLF of the plant? On what basis are you billing both the fixed cost and the fuel cost? What is the underrecovery, if any?
Well, we don't have an answer for the simple reason that we would expect the agreement to be signed soon, as Dr. Singh already said in some of the previous questions. If those are signed, we would definitely want to run the plant and give Gujarat 48%. I'm sure other states will also follow. We'll try to plan, look at it positively. It hasn't been 3 months ago, what's going to happen.
Also looking at the current PLF, I think is the plant, like, running at high PLF or the PL is 40?
Right now only one unit is operating. In that also 48% of the power is going to Gujarat. It's a very small quantity that is being done. As soon as we are able to come to an arrangement with Gujarat, we will be able to ramp up the generation and supply the full 1,800 megawatt quantity.
Okay. sir, this week itself there was a news item that the government may be considering to invoke Section 11 again in the run-up to the summer. Have you heard anything on this? Is it likely that the Section 11 could be kind of extended again?
We've also heard, we've also read in the newspaper and the statements given by the minister. Let's wait and see.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have next question from the line of Girish Acharya with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
I have three questions. As per slide 29, your DTL is actually down to 10%. I think it's the lowest ever. What's really happened there? Can you just clarify and if there is any one-off year? What typically happens in the winter months are the low DHF months.
This is typically every year also, if you see during these months, November, December, it's very low wind speed, and it will pick up. Why also, sir, is down 400 basis points?
Take a while. It is very low. Previously it's actually down to 10 point. Yeah. That, you know, the climate change that keeps on happening. This year, the monsoon rains went up to mid of October, in fact, up to end October, and that's why the wind speeds were very low.
We expect that they will make up in the subsequent months. We have also seen that in both Q1 and Q2 this year, the wind speeds are very good and on a cumulative basis, there is not huge difference between last year and this year. In terms of debt that is likely to be repaid in the next 12 months or renewable, how much is it and what is the rate of interest that you're getting on new borrowings and renewable debt?
I think it all depends on the CapEx plan that we have. Also like, you know, I'm referring to the CapEx plan that you have for the balance and the construction capacity. How much are you getting your new debt at?
If you have to refinance any debt, how much is the refinancing, what is the repayment likely? I think, when you look at all the current borrowings that we have recently just done, Can you just share the numbers, sir? I thought it is between 7.5%-8%, No, I was referring to the debt amount also. What is the debt amount you will have to repay or refinance?
Sorry, the refinance. See, that we have to calculate and give you, but all I can tell you is our average maturity period is very good and to that extent we are not really worried, but we do have those details available. You know, unlike many other players in the market, our complete borrowing is mostly domestic, and domestic loans. You know, the Majority is how long? Is it three years, four years, five years now with some current portfolio?
I think it's a little over five years overall. Yeah. The current one we have started looking at an even higher tenure. We recently did, I think it's also in the news, in the market. We did INR 1,000 crore borrowing at about 7.9% and 8% for 10-year tenure. The five-year rates are right now about 7.5%-7.6%. That's why I would say that our rate of borrowing will range between 7.5%-8%.
Okay. CapEx that you are incurring now, what will be the CapEx, what will be the module cost for that? How many cents would it work out to, roughly? Manufacturing costs.
Sir, are you talking about the manufacturing capacity?
Yeah, yeah, new capacity that you're building and it should come.
Yeah. We still have some way to go, so it's too early to give any idea of what will be the manufacturing cost, because it all depends at what price we get the cells and then we get the wafers. What we can tell you is that we will be very competitive based on the projections that we have seen and our manufacturing cost that we have planned. We will be very competitive in the Indian market.
Sir, can you just explain the deferred tax profit that you just said? I mean, I just want to know why is it coming and what is it about and should it, Is it extraordinary or not an extraordinary environment?
No. I think I should give you some context. At Tata Power level, which is the Tata Power level, we had hydropower losses coming because of this merger of the CGPL plant that happened last year. We had a huge amount of hydropower losses. To that extent, we have deferred tax asset created in the books.
Now, as and when we are getting the profits, the deferred tax asset are unwinding, right? If you see a higher unwinding, it's a good situation, which means that we are having higher profits as against last year. This is non-cash and, you know, it doesn't really impact our cash position.
Is it extraordinary or not an extraordinary?
This is one way read because if we have profits, we have a Deferred Tax Asset also. profit, right? Recurring profit. Minus the post-tax number or post-tax number should be the recurring profit there, right?
I'm not really clear on your question. The revenue that you've realized for Mundra for prior period, yeah, post-tax would actually be the recurring profit, right? There would not be any other adjustment.
The profit that we have realized and we are kind of going to tax, that is part of the Section 11, what is it, Section 11 CERC order. Depending upon from 1st of January, in related to time the realized.
I think I'm referring to the quarterly profit for this quarter. I'm not going for quarter four.
Okay.
quarterly profit minus prior period post-tax will be the recurring profit for Q3. That's my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong there and if I have to make any other adjustment.
Yeah. Maybe we say.
Dinesh, so, since we have carryforward losses on a standalone basis, we are actually negative. But because we have taken the Deferred Tax Asset, and when we realize profit, we will be consuming some of those Deferred Tax Assets. Sir said that this is not an extraordinary event. I'm just trying to reconcile that. That's why we will get the profits. This will come. The Deferred Tax Asset will be consumed. This is ordinary profit, which will consume the Deferred Tax Assets.
Okay. Dinesh, maybe we are not very clear on the question. I'll again attempt. You can still put that question to Rajesh, and he'll try and, you know, decipher that and come back to you with a clear-cut answer.
Sure.
None of them are exceptional or extraordinary. Other than we get profits, right, in the standalone Tata Power books, and given that we have had the carryforward losses and Deferred Tax Assets, this Deferred Tax Assets will get reversed. This is a non-cash item. It will not impact our cash flows.
Fair enough. I wanted to understand CapEx last bit. What has been the CapEx plan for 9 months that you have? For full year, how much is pending? For FY 2024, if you can just give us a broad breakup of different businesses, what all CapEx will be.
For this whole year, we're kind of eyeing at INR 83,000 crore. Depending on how much we can accelerate in the current quarter, it depends where we land up. Of course, given the size of the solar capacities that we're trying to put up, which is about 2-3 gigawatts, we could expect anything above INR 10,000 crore to be the CapEx spending next year. We are still working on the plans for the next year. Yes, you can at least expect that kind of CapEx to come in.
Thank you.
Thank you. With the last question from the line of Anshuman Ashit from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I understand. During the initial remarks, Praveer Sir had mentioned that there had been some asset sales that we had done during this quarter. Which were these assets and what was the consideration amount?
No, no. No. This asset sale was not done in the last quarter. We got the money in the last quarter. We had done the asset sale way back in 2016. Yeah, Adani coal mine. Some of the money which was due was to be received from them, we received in the last quarter.
Yeah.
I think if you see the cash flow, we have about INR 450 crores that has come in the quarter three. YT sale, I think, we recovered close to INR 700 crores, INR 750 crores. That is, I would say a good progress because this was a sale that we had done a couple of years back, and then we had to engage with the buyer to kind of, you know, get back our money.
Is there any further amount which is pending from our end?
Small amount which is pending that we would expect to come in the few, next few months.
Sir, what is that amount? How much is it?
We don't have the exact computation there, but, let's expect that we will do anything between INR 200 crore-INR 300 crore should come in.
Okay. Okay. Sir, second question on Tata Projects. This has been another quarter where the subsidiary has posted a loss. Sir, how should we see this? Because, the fluctuation quarter-on-quarter seems to be quite high. Can we see some stability? Because now the commodity prices also have stabilized a bit. Can we see some stability going forward in Tata Projects?
Yeah. See, I think you're bang on. While there have been losses, the losses are as good a time as was in the last year. We have very clearly mentioned that we're doing a lot of cleanups. There have been some onerous contracts where they've been making losses, which we are now trying to kind of wind up and, you know, book the losses ahead.
Yeah, I think, looking at the current order book of Tata Projects, it seems that the worst should be over now and we think we are comfortably in the recovery phase in the next year. We can expect some margin improvements going forward. We as shareholders would also like to, love to see that improvement
Okay. Sir, one question on the TPDD debt distribution. Power purchase costs, I know it's a pass-through, but it has increased significantly over the past one year. Should there be any concerns in terms of regulatory asset buildup or any other thing? How should we look at this? Is there any discussion on this matter, sir?
They get something called as the Power Purchase Adjustments. Right now, I think they are getting nearly 20% increase in terms of the Power Purchase Adjustments. Every quarter, they give the details to the Electricity Commission. After that, based on that, the Commission approves the PPAC. I think as presented, they are virtually neutral in terms of the power purchase cost and these adjustments.
Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you so much. That does answer my questions.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to Dr. Praveer Sinha for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you everyone, for joining for this call. In case you have any further details, please connect with my colleagues, Rajesh and Kashish, I'm sure we'll be able to provide you all the required information and details. Take care, and once again, it was a pleasure interacting with you all. Thank you guys. Bye-bye.
Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Tata Power, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.
Thank you.