Ladies and gentlemen, good day, welcome to the Larsen & Toubro Limited Q3 FY 2023 Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. P. Ramakrishnan, Head Investor Relations. Thank you, over to you, sir.
Thank you, Faizan. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. A very warm welcome to all of you to the Q3 FY 2023 Earnings Call of Larsen & Toubro. The investor presentation was uploaded on the stock exchange and our website around 6:20 P.M. today. I hope you had a chance to take a look at the numbers. As per normal practice, instead of going through the entire presentation, I will take you through the key highlights for the quarter in the next 20 minutes or so, post which we will take Q&A. Before I start the overview, a brief disclaimer.
The presentation which we have uploaded on the stock exchange and our website today, including the discussions during this call, contains or may contain certain forward-looking statements concerning L&T's business prospects and profitability, which are subject to several risks and uncertainties, and actual results could materially differ from those in such forward-looking statements. During Q3 FY 2023, the Indian economy continued to display surprising resilience amidst the continuing geopolitical uncertainties globally. The high frequency economic indicators are continuing to exhibit strong momentum. PMI, credit growth, rural and urban consumption trends, investment indicators, mobility indicators, passenger and cargo traffic data, et cetera, all of them are all pointing towards a stable and positive macroeconomic environment. The tax collections for the government have continued to remain strong, and the balance sheets of the banks as well as private corporates look healthy.
Most of the Indian macro indicators, be it growth, current account, fiscal deficit, and inflation, are relatively better vis-a-vis the rest in the world. Within GCC, we see many countries building their non-oil economies by investing in areas like water, green energy, and at the same time continuing to ramp up their spends on oil and gas investments. These are times where despite the continuing global turmoil, both India and GCC, which are our group's primary geographies as far as projects and manufacturing opportunities are concerned, they all look relatively stable. Before I get into the details of the financial performance parameters, I would like to share a few important highlights for this quarter. Number one, we announced the divestment of L&T IDPL during Q3. The transaction closure is subject to receipt of various regulatory approvals.
Number two, our LTI and Mindtree merger got concluded on November 15th, 2022. The merged entity, LTIMindtree, will benefit from cost and revenue synergies over time. Number three, with the conclusion of the sale of the mutual fund business and a phased sale of the wholesale loan assets book, our financial services business will continue to pursue its Retailization strategy. I will come to covering the various financial performance parameters for Q3 FY 2023. Our group order inflows for Q3 FY 2023 at INR 607 billion registered a YoY growth of 21%. Our projects and manufacturing portfolio secured order inflows of INR 457 billion for Q3, registering a YoY growth of 20%. Our Q3 order inflows in the projects and manufacturing portfolio are mainly from infrastructure and hydrocarbon segments.
During the current quarter, our share of international orders in the projects and manufacturing portfolio is at 12% vis-a-vis 34% in Q3 of the previous year. The domestic ordering environment, therefore, in Q3 was significantly better compared to Q3 of the Last Financial Year. At a macro level, the domestic tendering and awarding activity has continued to remain strong. Although the domestic award to tender ratio was a bit soft in the current quarter, which was 56% in Q3 FY 2023 vis-a-vis 51 in Q3 FY 2022, the fact that the tendering momentum is strong augurs well for the quarters ahead as well. For nine-month FY 2023, the award to tender ratio was 52% vis-a-vis 48% in nine months of the previous year.
We also expect the public CapEx spends comprising of Center, states, and PSUs in the current year to be significantly better than the previous year. The year-to-date public CapEx spends have been higher over the comparable period in the previous year, driven by Center and PSUs. We expect the state government CapEx to pick up significantly in the last part of our Financial Year, of the current financial year, which is FY 2023. Private sector CapEx is also seeing signs of revival. In fact, in Q3 FY 2023, the project announcements by the private sector is at a multi-year high. In Q3, our share of private within the domestic orders was 32% vis-a-vis 18% last year, largely witnessed in the buildings and factories sub-segment and in the ferrous sectors. We will be closely watching this momentum build-up in private CapEx in the coming quarters.
Our order prospects pipeline for Q4 FY 2023, that is for the remaining four months of the current financial year, is around INR 4.87 trillion, comprising of domestic order prospects of INR 3.82 trillion and international order prospects of INR 1.05 trillion. The breakup of this overall prospects pipeline comprises of infrastructure has a share of INR 3.89 trillion, hydrocarbon at INR 0.61 trillion, power at INR 0.20 trillion, heavy engineering and defense in aggregate at INR 0.17 trillion. Moving on to order book. Our order book at INR 3.86 trillion as of December 2022, is largely India-centric. 74% of that is actually belonging to domestic, and the balance outside of India.
Against the international order book of INR 1.02 trillion, around 81% is from Middle East, 10% from Africa, and the remaining 9% from other countries. Clearly, the Middle East CapEx in both infra and hydrocarbon is on upswing post the recovery in oil prices, the statement that I referred to you five minutes back. The breakdown of the domestic order book of INR 2.68 trillion, which I said is 74% of the overall order book, comprises as central government orders have a share of 9%, state government 31%, public sector corporations or state-owned enterprises have a share of 40%, and private sector, the remaining 20%. Approximately around 27% of our order book, total order book of INR 3.86 trillion, is funded by bilateral and multilateral funding agencies.
Around 91% of our total order book, again of INR 3.86 trillion, is from infrastructure and energy. You may refer to the presentation slides for further details. During Q3 and nine months FY 2023, we have deleted orders of around INR 19 billion and INR 50 billion, respectively from the order book. The slow-moving order share as of 31st December is at a low of 3%-4% or so. Coming to revenues, our group revenues for Q3 FY 2023 at INR 464 billion registered a year-on-year growth of 17%. International revenues constituted 37% of the revenues. The ITTS portfolio continued to report a good growth in Q3 as well.
In the projects and manufacturing business portfolio, our revenues for Q3 FY 2023 were at INR 314 billion, also registering a year-on-year growth of 15%, again, largely contributed by robust execution growth in infrastructure segment. I will come to the finer points when I cover each of the segments later. Moving on to the EBITDA margin, our group level EBITDA margin without treasury income or other income for Q3 FY 2023 is 10.9% at a drop of 50 basis points over the Q3 of the previous year. This drop of 50 basis points is primarily due to higher staff costs in the ITTS portfolio and as well as a one-time merger integration cost posted by LTIMindtree. The detailed break-up of the EBITDA margin business-wise is given in the annexures to the investor presentation.
You would have noticed that the EBITDA margin in the projects and manufacturing business for Q3 FY 2023 is at 8.5% vis-a-vis 8.4% in Q3 of the previous year. This improvement of 10 basis points is largely reflective of job and activity levels in the various sub-segments of the projects and manufacturing portfolio. Our recurring PAT for Q3 FY 2023 at INR 24.6 billion by 20% of Q3 of the last year, largely aided by higher treasury income. The reported PAT at INR 25.5 billion is up by 24% over previous year.
An exceptional item of around INR 1 billion for current quarter Q3 FY 2023 includes a gain on the divestment of the mutual fund business, partly offset by a one-time charge on the remeasurement of the wholesale loan assets by L&T Finance Holdings. The group performance P&L construct, along with the reasons for major variances under the respective function heads, is provided in the investor presentation. Coming to working capital, our working capital sales ratio has improved from 22.9% in December 2021 to 19% in December 2022. Our group level collections, excluding financial services for Q3 FY 2023, is INR 433 billion, vis-a-vis INR 331 billion in Q3 FY 2022.
For the nine months of the current year, our group level collections, excluding financial services, is INR 1.16 trillion, vis-a-vis INR 0.93 trillion in nine months of the previous year. Moving on to balance sheet. If you glance through the balance sheet given in the annexures to the investor presentation, you would notice that the debt equity ratios, both gross and net in December 2022, have improved over the March 2022 levels. Our trailing 12-month ROE for Q3 FY 2023 is 12.4, vis-a-vis 11% in Q3 of the previous year. Very briefly, I will now comment on the performance of each of the business segment before we give our final comments on our outlook for the near term. First would be infrastructure.
Coming to order inflows, our Q3 FY 2023 order inflows for this segment are well spread across the various sub-segments. During the quarter, this segment banked some large orders in the public space, highway projects, irrigation projects, and the metals space. The segment secured orders of INR 325 billion in Q3, registering a strong growth of 28% of over Q3 of the previous year. Our order prospects pipeline in infra for Q4 FY 2023 is around INR 3.89 trillion, comprising of domestic prospects of INR 3.27 trillion and international prospects of INR 0.62 trillion.
The sub-segment break-up of the total order prospects in this segment comprises of heavy civil infra has the largest share at 32%, following by transportation infra at 29%, water 14%, buildings and factories 13%, power transmission distribution at 9%, and minerals and metals at 3%. Order book in the segment at INR 2.97 trillion as of December 2022, has an execution visibility of around three years. The Q3 revenues in the current year at INR 219 billion, registered a growth of 20% over the comparable quarter of the previous year, aided again by a combination of a large order book, opening order book and improved customer collections during the quarter.
As we have been mentioning earlier as well as a strategy, we have always stepped up execution when customer collections are flowing at a healthy space, to strike a healthy balance between P&L and balance sheet management. Our EBITDA margin in the segment is at 7% in Q3 FY 2023 vis-a-vis 7.1% in Q3 of the previous financial year. The margin for the quarter remained stable, despite cost pressures. Moving on to the next segment, which is energy projects, which comprises of hydrocarbon and power. The receipt of domestic orders in the hydrocarbon, improves the order book, whereas deferral of orders continue in power. The order prospects pipeline of INR 0.80 trillion for the Q4 FY 2023, is more or less healthy.
The order book for this energy segment at INR 720 billion as on December 2022, with the international order book constituting 50%, largely on account of hydrocarbon orders that we have been securing for the last six quarters. The Q3 FY 2023 revenues at INR 63.3 billion registers a growth of 7% over the comparable quarter of the previous year. it is heartening to note that the execution momentum in hydrocarbon is improved, whereas lower revenues in power is reflective of a depleted opening order book. The EBITDA margin of this segment at 8.7% for Q3 FY 2023 improved compared to 8.3% over the corresponding quarter of the previous financial year. The execution cost savings and productivity and efficiency in both hydrocarbon and power business enable the margin improvement.
We will now move on to the High-Tech Manufacturing segment, which comprises of Heavy Engineering and Defense Engineering businesses. In this quarter, we saw multiple order wins in Heavy Engineering, whereas Defense ordering was a little subdued during the quarter. We have an order prospects pipeline of around INR 170 billion for Q4 FY 2023. The order book of this segment is at INR 199 billion as on December 31, 2022. The revenues for Q3 FY23 at INR 16.7 billion registered a growth of 14% over the corresponding quarter of the previous year.
There has been strong execution in the revenue growth in the heavy engineering business, whereas defense witnessed certain tapering of some of the jobs that we executed last year. The segment margin in the previous year also had the benefit from price variation claims and an important job crossing the margin recognition threshold in defense, which explains the margin variation in Q3 FY 2023 when compared to the corresponding quarter of the previous year. On this segment, once again, to reaffirm the defense engineering business does not manufacture any explosives nor ammunition of any kind, including cluster ammunitions or anti-personnel landmines or nuclear weapons or components for such ammunitions. The business also does not customize any delivery systems for such ammunitions.
For those of you who have not gone through the annual report for FY 2022, we have made an adequate disclosure to this effect, mentioned in the chairman's statement as part of the integrated annual report of last year. Moving on to the IT and technology services segment. The highlight for the quarter was, as I mentioned earlier, the merger of LTIMindtree. Coming to performance, the revenues for this segment in Q3 FY 2023 at INR 105.2 billion registered a growth of 25% of the corresponding quarter of the previous year, reflecting the continuing growth momentum in the sector, with a surge in demand for technology-enabled offerings. The business outlook for the segment continues to be strong despite the fears around global recession impacting IT spending.
The margin in this segment is lower in Q3 FY 2023 vis-a-vis Q3 FY 2022. Again, once again, as I mentioned earlier, impacted mainly due to higher employee costs and a one-time merger integration expense that LTIMindtree had to incur. I will not detail out much in this segment as because both of the companies in this segment are listed subsidiaries and the detailed fact sheets are already available in the public domain. We move on to the other listing, which is L&T Finance Holdings clubbed under the financial services segment. Here again, the company is listed and the detailed results are already available. To mention the highlights. The highlights for Q3 FY 2023 was improved net interest margin and fees, lower credit costs, better asset quality, and a rundown of the wholesale and expansion of the retail book.
As on December 22, the share of retail book in the overall book is improved at 64%. Our PAT for the quarter includes gains on the divestment of the mutual fund business and partly getting offset by a one-time charge on the remeasurement of the wholesale loan assets portfolio pursuant to the group's decision to have an accelerated sell-down of the book of the wholesale loan assets book. The strategic deliverables in this business revolve, as I mentioned, the portfolio reorganization that is a focus towards retail, strong asset quality and overall improvement in return on assets. The business endeavors to be a top-class digitally enabled retail finance company moving from a product focus to a customer-focused approach.
To conclude, there is sufficient growth capital available in the balance sheet, which means, like the way we have mentioned earlier, we don't have any plan to infuse any sort of further equity into this business for the next... in the near to medium term. Moving to development project segment, which is essentially the concession segment. This segment includes the power development business as well. The assets include Hyderabad Metro, Nabha Power and Uttaranchal Hydropower Plant, up to the date of its divestment, that was August 30th, 2021. Q3 of FY 2022 onwards, Uttaranchal numbers are not there. Until Q2 of the previous year, you had Uttaranchal numbers that we have disclosed already.
As you are aware, the roads and transmission line concessions part of the business, which is L&T IDPL, is being consolidated at a PAT level using the equity method. The majority of revenues reported in this segment is contributed by Nabha Power. The ridership in Hyderabad Metro and higher PLF in Nabha was one of the reasons for the growth in this segment. Coming back to Hyderabad Metro, some ridership statistics. The average metro ridership improved from 218,000 passengers a day in Q3 of FY 2022 to 394,000 passengers per day in Q3 of current financial year. The average ridership of the previous quarter of the current financial year, which is Q2 FY 2023, was 355,000 passengers a day.
On a sequential quarter basis also, one can witness that what was in Q2 FY 2023 at INR 3,55,000 has gone up to INR 3,94,000 in Q3 FY 2022. Both all the numbers are the average ridership. Incidentally, on January 25th, 2023, the Hyderabad Metro witnessed a record highest metro ridership at almost INR 4,71,000. Q3 FY 2023 margin in this segment is contributed by metro operations as Nabha margin is not being recognized from Q3 FY21. The improvement in average daily ridership has enabled Metro to report EBITDA margin of 40% in Q3 FY 2023 vis-a-vis 23% in Q3 FY 2022. The metro at a PAT level, we consolidate a loss of INR 3.3 billion in Q3 FY 2023.
Vis-a-vis a loss of INR 4.8 billion in Q3 of FY 2022. Operating and amortization costs are between INR 0.80 billion-INR 0.90 billion each quarter, whereas interest cost is at INR 3.2 billion each of the quarters. In Q3 last year, our interest cost was INR 4.3 billion. Coming back to conclude on Hyderabad Metro, the improved ridership, and a plan to have a phased transit-oriented development monetization, the accrual of the government assistance that we had discussed in the previous quarters, and with the recently concluded de-debt refinancing, the performance parameters for Hyderabad Metro should improve further in the coming quarters. The dilution of stake in this SPV may happen in phases over the next couple of years, but at this juncture, there doesn't seem to be any immediate visibility.
Moving on to the last segment, which is the residual known as the other segment that comprises of realty, industrial Valvess, Smart World & Communication, construction equipment, mining machinery and rubber processing machinery. The Q3 revenue growth is mainly in rubber processing machinery, construction machinery and realty. Margin improvement for the other segment is driven by a favorable sales mix in construction equipment and mining machinery and rubber processing machinery, and as well as a sale of property in realty. Coming to the last part of my discussion or presentation, the outlook for the quarter and the near term. The Indian economy continues to stay resilient amidst the geopolitical uncertainties, slowing global trade, disrupted supply chains, volatile commodity prices and rising interest rates. There is a visible tax buoyancy in the country enabling the government to pursue its targeted CapEx plans.
The PLI schemes of the government are expected to incentivize private players, both domestic and foreign, to set up manufacturing facilities in an environment of improving demand conditions and business confidence. Major private CapEx investments are likely in energy transformation, emerging technology, healthcare, logistics, industrial parks, data centers, et cetera, which all of them augurs well for an EPC contract organization like us. The government is likely to continue the emphasis on infrastructure spending, while providing subtle support to consumption and addressing the need for investing in new-age technologies to combat the climate change risks. Elsewhere, major parts of the global economy, they continue to tread in turbulent waters due to policy tightening, high inflation, worsening financial conditions and continued trade disruptions due to the ongoing Europe-Russia conflict.
Further, China is also running the risk of managing the COVID-related challenges as restrictions on movement have been eased. However, the impact we feel, could be temporary. With the softening demand conditions and elevated interest rates, it is expected that inflation will soften in 2023. Despite these several headwinds, we believe that the global economy is not at a higher risk of sliding into a recession. Oil prices are likely to remain firm at current levels, aiding the Middle East to continue to earn surpluses and create sufficient financial flexibility, to invest in sectors besides oil. Like the way I mentioned of industrial water and other green investments. In this backdrop, the company's portfolio has the necessary capability and flexibility to continuously rebalance its approach and strategy, to benefit from the dynamic business environment.
The company is focused on tapping emerging opportunities with its proven competence in the domains of engineering, manufacturing, construction, project management, IT and financial services, and committed to create sustainable long-term value for its shareholders. Let me comment on our guidance for the year FY 2023 before we take the Q&A. The first point on order inflows. We believe that we are well positioned to meet and possibly exceed the guidance if the current tendering and award momentum continues into Q4 as well. In the projects business, as all of us are aware, the slippage of order awards between quarters is normal and could ultimately influence the actual order inflow for FY 2023.
On revenue, our current execution rate is fairly encouraging, and we believe that we are on course to meet the upper end of the guidance that we had given at the start of this financial year. Lastly, coming to margins. We will also have working capital, but let me cover margins first. The overall margins for the products and manufacturing business rely obviously largely on the margin of our largest segment, that is infrastructure. Infra margins have been under pressure in the current year, partly because of execution of project this year has involved absorption of project costs contracted during the inflationary period of September 2021 to June 2022. You know, in the projects business itself, costs are absorbed as incurred while claims for contract price variation get settled at the back end of the project.
This leads to what we call a timing mismatch in reporting margins. Having mentioned that, we do believe that the margin in the projects and manufacturing portfolio could have possibly bottomed out, especially in the infrastructure segment, and should witness a recovery going forward, provided the input costs remain stable. Geopolitical dynamics, seeing war in Europe and COVID disruptions in China does have some sort of a residual bearing even today on the supply chain, I would say, on the supply chain matter. We had reported 9.3% as overall margin for FY 2022. For the current year, we do expect a pressure of maybe around 30 to 50 basis points on this particular parameter. Lastly, coming to working capital, the Q4 of every financial year is a strong cost quarter for our customer collections.
Since our inclusive revenue is at 19% in December 2022, we believe that we could possibly close the year between 90%-20% as against the year start guidance of 20%-22%. With this, thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this patient hearing. Faizan, maybe we can now start take the Q&A.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Good evening, Piar. This was a quarter of fairly strong inflows and core business execution overall. My first question is that you mentioned a strong oil and non-oil CapEx spend in GCC, inflow growth in the quarter and nine months is domestic-led. Is L&T losing out on orders in GCC so far this year, or if you could provide some color?
Sumit, let me tell you that, it's all again, I would say, the timing mismatches, because if you were to compare the nine months of the previous year vis-à-vis nine months of the current year, it is like, we did get sufficient large orders in the Middle East in the previous year, especially in renewables and hydrocarbons. I would like to answer to your question saying that it's not that, the competitive intensity has gone up and, we have lost orders. I think it's more to do with the fact, that there has been some amount of delays, but nothing to say, from a negative perspective that, the Middle East is slowing down or we are losing orders there. As I mentioned, the order prospects pipeline of 4.87, especially this quarter.
Out of that, the international order prospects is almost at INR 1.05 trillion. In fact, in hydrocarbons at INR 0.61 trillion, which is the total order prospects, the international order prospects is almost two-thirds of that, two-thirds of that 0.61. I would say that, it's more of a timing related issue, nothing structural.
Got it. The second point is just on your margin guidance, what was the 30 to 50 basis points that you mentioned, if you could repeat that?
Okay. What I concluded was that we printed 9.3 for last year.
Mm-hmm.
Okay? Considering the fact that the first six months, and you must be aware, we had explained in detail that the first six months was a combination of higher commodity prices and some project closure costs that we witnessed, especially in Q2. To that extent, if you see, there has been a margin improvement in Q3, but the amount of margins that we missed out in the first six months, it's a little difficult for us to compensate the entire thing in the next six months and still maintain the margin of 9.3.
Here at this stage, of course, the Q4 typically for our projects and manufacturing portfolio is I would say a very good quarter in terms of the execution intensity, including some of the projects to cross the margin recognition threshold. But it is important that one should understand, since the first six months we have had a drop in margin, we could see some amount of margin compression at a yearly level, and that largely because of the first six months drop that we had. Hence, what we are looking at is that there could be a 30 to 50 basis points compression compared to 9.3% of FY 2022.
Very clear. Is there any progress on outstanding customer claims which have accumulated post-COVID and even the episode in Q2 FY 2023?
Okay. Hence, you know, I did mention this when I was giving my margin guidance that See, during COVID, what had happened is obviously because of the lockdown restrictions, the customers were giving us, I would say, extension of time. In terms of the holdup cost that L&T had incurred way back then in terms of getting certification will typically happen towards the job closure. In this entire margin guidance, whatever we are being providing, we are excluding such kind of pending customer claims, not only for COVID, there can be for other aspects also. In a project and manufacturing business, it has to happens both ways. We can have overran costs because of our account, and we can have cost overran because of time delays or because of right of way issues that is typically the responsibility of the customer.
In this case, any customer claims that we are able to get, obviously will add up to the margins, but that has not been factored for Q4 FY 2023.
Very clear. Just one data question. In your cash flow statement, your net investment in fixed assets has gone up from INR 18 billion in 9-month FY22 to INR 30.3 billion in nine-month FY 2023. What's driving, and what's the co-composition of this CapEx?
The large part of this CapEx, Sumit, is coming in the form of in the standalone business itself, which is largely project-related CapEx that we are doing. The other part of the CapEx obviously is the ITTS portfolio because they also are expanding in terms of headcount and the normal IT equipments that we have. I would say almost at a gross level, we have had a CapEx increase in by way of purchasing project-related equipment of almost INR 2,500 crores in the first nine months I mean, increase as compared to the same nine months of the previous year.
Okay. Your recurring CapEx now would be a higher number versus what you have been doing in the past?
Actually, no. That is something I believe is a positive thing to handle with because recurring CapEx need not be that, you know, we are. It's more to do with the projects that we are getting. If you are talking about a lot of projects that are coming up in the coastal side, including high-speed rail, hydel projects and all, which involves tunneling and the need to deploy tunnel boring machines. I guess that is something positive, but that doesn't mean that we are going to have a sizable CapEx. As far as this year is concerned, yes, there has been an increase. Let us see next year when we give the guidance in all other parameters, how much of the project-related CapEx will happen. That depends on how we close the budgets in the next two to three months.
Thank you so much. Those were my questions.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepak Krishnan from Macquarie. Please go ahead.
Hi, Jayant. Thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted to understand while we have seen an incremental order inflow of 32% in overall private mix, but in terms of your prospect pipeline, how would you look at, you know, private CapEx picking up, specifically if you kind of look at what is immediately possible for you?
In the overall prospects pipeline, what I mentioned is the domestic prospects pipeline, what we have is INR 3.82 trillion. Okay? Against that, the share of private CapEx orders is still around, I would say 10% to 15% odd. Okay? Although the announcements now on the private side has been quite favorable in Q3 as compared to the previous quarters, but in terms of the actual tendering in this momentum, we do believe possibly it could happen maybe post the Union Budget announcements, that is expected two days from now. Definitely it is, I would say, quite positive.
I also would like to mention that even in the current year, we have seen a sizable mega order that we have secured in the metal space, which itself demonstrates that some of the core industrial, investments from the private sector, seem to be online or on track, I would say.
Sure. Maybe just one follow-up on the margin side, especially on the infra side, because we've been seeing flat margin in despite improved execution. Is there any other, you know, outstanding projects which are sort of a challenge? Maybe just from an overall mix, how are we looking at, you know, the mix of fixed versus variable price contracts currently in our order backlog?
At the aggregate portfolio level of projects and manufacturing, the share of fixed and variable contracts still continues to be the one-third, two-third, Deepak. That has not changed much. The only thing is whatever fixed price contracts that we have been quoting for the last, I would say four quarters or three quarters or so, that has been something taking into account the current prices. Of course, in FY23, what we are witnessing the execution ramp-up is largely the fixed price contracts that we had secured prior to the commodity price hikes that we have been witnessing. To some extent of that has seen an impact in the overall margins. Intra- margins today is at almost 7%- odd . I guess, we are coming back.
You should be seeing a sequential improvement, quarter-on-quarter from now onwards.
Sure, sir. Maybe just one last question, given that on the Hyderabad side, we are seeing an expansion of the metro network, but anything from the state government side on the, you know, the industry loan that we were supposed to get? Any support, any update on that?
As of December, the state government assistance was announced at INR 3,000 crore to be given over a period of two to three years. As of December, we just got INR 100 crore, and we are informed that we should be getting the INR 900 crore or the first tranche of INR 1,000 crore in the current quarter.
Sure, sir. Thanks for the update and best of luck for the future quarter.
Thank you, Deepak.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Renu Baid from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, good evening to you. three questions from my side. On the margins, essentially at the start of the year, we had guided a relative improvement in margins, which we had cut down to flat margins. Now we are seeing 30 to 50 basis points decline in YoY margins. Am I right? It's a cut in the inflow guidance from where we came through.
Okay. Renu, yes, I agree with you that when we started the year, we had initiated the guidance of 9.5%. I guess the first six months that we had witnessed a good amount of execution, also witnessed two things that the commodity prices that we took the first six months was largely on the back of contracted purchase orders for committed shipments, which was a discount at the time of the prices prevailing then. Okay? That has had one impact, and as I mentioned in the previous calls in Q2 also, we had some amount of project closure costs that was not envisaged.
As we see it, the margin drop that we have seen in the first 6 months looks to be a little unlikely that can get compensated completely. The one important thing I would like to reassure you that at least we seem to have changed the tide now with the improvement in margins coming back, and we expect that the improvement momentum to continue on the back of commodity prices having eased. As you know, margin guidance is being only given for the current Q4 and for the year. Basis the way we are looking at Q4, we are looking at possibly 9.3% is what we printed. Maybe we should be in that 8.8% to 9% kind of a trajectory.
Got it. Basically, the question is, as in, the overall E&C margins, can we expect at least from next year, given that most of the project closure cost, one-time expenses, everything is behind. On a normalized basis, if there are no further shocks on the commodity side, can margins revert back to double-digit levels from next fiscal, given the mix of orders and execution that we have on books?
Renu Baid, first thing.
Is that a possibility?
Renu, first thing let me tell you that the commodity prices having eased obviously will be comfort for us in terms of our ability to improve the margins, primarily because, as I mentioned a few minutes back, that the projects that we have bid, fixed price contract that bid for the last three to four quarters, have taken some amount of higher commodity prices, which will added to our benefit. In terms of the margins projected trajectory, Renu, I think as I mentioned, that it looks to be that we have bottomed out and from now onwards it should improve. It is premature for me to comment on next year margins because let us first take stock of how the budgets of the individual business pan out.
As you may be aware that we have a, we always give the margins for the year in question. Kindly wait until three to four months before give the guidance for, FY 2024.
Got it. Related to this, on the bullet train or the high speed project that you're executing, the largest project in the backlog, are we through with the margin threshold recognition for the largest packages there, or are we expecting that around in 4Q or 1Q?
The C4 package is almost at, I think 40% or so complete. Both C4, C6 are already crossed the margin recognition thresholds.
Sorry to interrupt you, sir. The audio is breaking from your line. Please check. Ladies and gentlemen, the line for the management is disconnected. Request you all to please stay online while we reconnect them. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for patiently waiting. The line for the management is reconnected. Thank you and over to you.
Yeah. Sorry for this. I think there was a problem in our line, we got connected. Renu was answering in terms of the high-speed rail. The two projects in C4, C6 have crossed their margin recognition threshold and are going as per plan, largely in line with what we have planned out.
Got it. You also mentioned in your opening comments about a sale of property in realty. Would it be possible to quantify the value?
The sale of property in the Realty business is part of Realty's own business portfolio itself. I would say put the margin according to overall margin for the quarter at around 15 basis points.
Okay, no, lump sum value in terms of sale considerations.
I would say it's in the normal course of business of realty. Nothing to call out separate because anyway it is getting subsumed under other segment. If it is material, anyway I would have told you separately.
Got it. Lastly, while your nine-month order inflows have been very strong and your guidance unchanged implies a decline of almost double digits, 10%-15% in Q4, and you also mention of possibility of slippages of orders in Q4 in E&C segment. You know, are you seeing certain large projects decision-making getting delayed either in defense or other segments? It's more of a cautionary segment, and if everything is business as normal, you should be able to exceed your inflow guidance?
Okay. Renu, let me tell you that when we gave a order inflow guidance at the start of the year at 12% to 15%, okay?
Mm-hmm.
Today, what we are telling is that we are fairly confident to meet or cross the upper end of the guidance, which is 15%. I think it's important to confirm this with numbers. Typically, if you have witnessed L&T's projects and manufacturing business, you will always find that the H2 has been quite robust as compared to the first six months. This year has been, and that is something I would say very positive, that we have seen a good amount of tendering, awarding, and award opportunities in L&T's favor, right from Q1 itself. If you trace to our Q4 numbers, the total order inflows that we have done in Q4 of FY 2022 was almost INR 61,000 crore. Okay?
Yeah.
even to keep that 15% guidance, I need to be having in that, around that level of order inflows even in Q4. Obviously, you will have the combination of some mega orders and some, you know, good amount of orders to come in. There is always a INR 5,000 crore, INR 10,000 crore, you know, drop here and there could possibly create that percentage. We are confident. As I said, we are more positive to cross the amount, but I think it will be a little premature for us to say at what level we'll cross, given the fact that the run rate itself is a neat INR 55,000-INR 65,000 crore.
Got it. On the defense side, projects where you were L1 for quite some time, a repeat order for K9 Vajra and others are the air defense gun. Do you think those orders may materialize end of this fiscal or still they are take some time away?
That I would say at this juncture, too early to comment on it, Renu. Possibly could be a spill over to next year.
Sure. Thanks much, sir. Very helpful. All the best. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital Advisors. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good evening, sir, and congratulations on a very good set of numbers, especially on the order inflow. My first question is on the prospect on the defense side. Has the defense prospects improved materially? I am then talking about for the next 12-18 months. Do you think, because we have seen the interviews where we are talking about, you know, the defense constituting more and more as you go forward as a proportion of the entire order backlog.
I was talking about that the earning giving plus defense order prospects for Q4 at INR 17,000 crore, INR 0.17 trillion. Let me tell you, and I'm talking for Q4. The order prospects for defense is almost at INR 15,000 crore, INR 0.15 trillion. One thing is definitely the government has I would say a clear articulated plan on increasing the indigenization of the various defense CapEx procurement. Of course, there are large projects that may come up, but let me restrict here to say that order prospect where we see some amount of ordering and a possible award opportunity is only for Q4, and that is at INR 0.15 trillion.
With a, I would say, a very positive outlook in terms of the extent of defense orders that can come up in the subsequent years, a little early to comment as to how much the order prospects will happen for next year. Wait until May when we give you the numbers.
Understood. Secondly, sir, how has been our win ratio in the orders, which were announced in nine months, and the closure of tender to award ratio, especially in Q3?
In the domestic award to tender ratio, I think I did mention in Q3 it was 56%, Q3 FY 2023 as against 57%, so it is just a drop of 1%. You know what? The tendering momentum for Q3 at INR 4.21 trillion is almost up by 54% as compared to the previous quarter, that is Q3 of the previous year. Similarly, the nine-month award to tender ratio, which was 52%, you know, in the current nine months, as against 48% in the nine months of the previous year.
Here again, the tendering actual value of tenders at INR 10.1 trillion for nine-month FY23 is almost up by 64%, which only reiterates the entire, I think, and most of us would agree that the Indian economy seems to be on the back of a good sustained investment or CapEx led momentum with a clear intention to kickstart projects and get into the execution side. Coming to the first point of our first part of your question, I would say that this year we have seen a more positive award to prospects ratio, or whatever one may call, is almost in the range of around 20% odd, which is something which we believe is quite positive for us.
Understood. Last question, Hyderabad Metro, are we expecting more TOD monetization as we enter into FY 2024? I believe the monetization has been pretty slow till date. Can I expect a substantial number in FY 2024?
Sorry, I didn't get you. FY 2024.
TOD. TOD monetization-
Okay.
of the Hyderabad Metro. Can you comment on that?
The way it will happen is I would say that it would be reasonable to comment on the fact that we can assume around INR 1,000 crore-INR 1,500 crore as monetization over each year over the next two to three years.
Understood, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you. That's it.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepika Mundra from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Yes, Deepika.
Yeah. Yes, hi, Piya. Thanks for taking my question. I have two or three questions. Mainly on working capital and margin. Given that you're seeing a pickup in the private sector orders, like before, are you seeing a differentiated margin profile as well as working capital profile compared to public sector CapEx?
Deepika, I guess, I think the last 1.5, two years, a major part of the CapEx that we have been taking is either Middle East or the India side is largely government. Okay? Despite all of this, I would like to mention that as a company for the last 6 quarters or so, we have been very careful to keep on track this margin trajectory. We have been, I think, fairly successful, although we started the year saying that we will end the year with a 20% margin trajectory, but see a maximum of maybe 22% in the intervening quarters. I guess, the company as a whole has been quite conscious of this fact, and we have been able to keep the 19% threshold even for nine months.
I would say that 19-20 is what we have targeted, and I guess we will be possibly below the guidance of 20% itself on a favorable side coming to the close of this financial year. To answer to your question, a combination of improved private sector order inflows could possibly, I would say, have a positive impact on working capital management. There again, considering that we will have a large part of our order book as public sector-led or government-led, I think it would be fair to assume in the near term an improvement can happen maybe to 18 odd %. Beyond that, something I think I would not like to comment at this juncture.
Oh, that's very clear, Piya. Also on, you know, some time back as part of your strat plan, you all announced, you know, some investments in clean energy, on battery as well as on the electrolyzer side. Can you walk us through, you know, any update on that front? Since that is somewhat included in your revenue growth outlook for the next three to four years, in terms of the confidence level on achieving some of that, some revenue from the new initiatives.
Deepika, I guess when we had articulated our strategic plan FY 2022 to FY 2026 in May 22, we also talked about in the current financial year, the one investment that we could possibly seen as planning to commit would be was in the business of setting up the electrolyzer manufacturing unit. We have set up a commissioned pilot green hydrogen plant spending around INR 35 odd crore that got commissioned in Q2 and Q3 of the current financial year. We are now looking at actively at the JV partner who can assist us at setting up this electrolyzer JV, the plan was that that should get happened by March.
I guess possibly, that may happen maybe at the end of this quarter or possibly at the start of the quarter of next year. In terms of overall investment looking at electrolyzer was around INR 15 billion. I guess there's not much coupon here. I'm almost as far as the next one on the green energy side was the decision to get into storage battery part. I guess just to when sizing of the technical specs because the entire technology is also changing so fast. I guess, in terms of clarity on that, maybe another 12 months down the line, we should have better clarity as to what kind of technology, what is the size of the investment, and who is the technology partner.
Maybe with the end of possibly next financial year is a portion where we'll be able to articulate. Having said this, in the current strat plan, I don't think what we have given as our overall top-line numbers is not something which is any significant numbers coming from these two new lines of investments.
Understood. Last question on the guidance. While on the order inflows, clearly you've, you know, highlighted some potential upside risk. Even your execution is running well ahead of the full year guidance run rate. Any comment on that?
Tony, as I said, we have told that we are reasonably sure of, again, maintaining the upper end of the revenue guidance band with minimal downside risk. Let me put it that way.
Okay, fine. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Puneet Gulati from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you so much, and congratulations on good numbers. My first question is with respect to your win ratio. If I, you know, go by your commentary on awards and tendering, all that seems to be, you know, much higher, 52%, you know, year-on-year, but your order inflow growth is clearly lesser. Does that mean that the win ratio is lower this year versus the previous year?
No, no. Sorry. I think I mentioned that the win ratio is 20% odd , which is higher than even the previous years, which are hovering between 15%-16% odd . This year has been good for us, so I think, I hope the win ratio we are able to maintain. I don't think I have given any such message which seems to suggest that our win ratio in Q4 will come down.
You said tendering momentum was up 64% Y -on- Y, right? That's not the order inflow growth, right? That's-
Yeah, yeah. Let me tell you know, Puneet, is that we are given order prospects of almost INR 4.87 trillion, Let us try to focus on the domestic order prospects of INR 3.82 trillion, okay? For Q4, right? This is also on the back of the prospects that each of our sub-segments are looking at. Kindly understand that this is going to be one unusual year where even in the first three quarters, a lot of tendering happened, a lot of awards have happened. It is quite possible some of the, I would say, mega prospects, mega prospects is more than $1 billion.
There is a possibility that it may have got tendered out, maybe bids may have been submitted. The question of award, because we still have only two months of the year, and we are not seeing much of action in January. That is the reason that there could be a spillover into next year. It's more of a wait-and-watch mode. I think there is no suggestion from our side to say that the visibility of ordering intensity or anything coming down, it's more to do the fact of what you have a sort of a time delay, time delays that can spill over to the first quarter of next year.
No, sir. Sorry, maybe I'm not clear. What I meant was tendering is up 64% nine months Y -on - Y. Award ratios to tender is 52%. Clearly the award is also higher than 64%. If your order inflow growth is, you know, less than 64%, more like 21% odd , then does it not mean that, you know, either you didn't participate or you didn't win enough?
Okay. Let me put it like this, Puneet. I guess I will put it that way. It is not necessary that all the tenders that are put up, everything L&T bids. Okay?
Yeah.
We are little selective. Typically, we bid for projects in each of the segments, provided it has a particular size.
Okay.
I think it's more important what we are trying to convey is that the CapEx revival that we have been talking about, all of us have been talking about, seems to be in place. In this CapEx revival, large projects that come up obviously will favor, I think, contractors like L&T in a better way. I'll put it that way.
Should one read that most of the projects actually were smaller size, which did not interest you as well?
For example, there have been lot of tenders and awards being given in transportation infrastructure. Okay? I mean, there we know that we there is a competitive intensity which is X times what we see in other sectors.
Okay.
We know, we are aware of it, and we also don't want to, you know, take up orders in a segment where our pricing becomes what you call as commoditized pricing being played.
Yeah.
I guess a better part of the CapEx has happened there, where we have not seen much of traction as a bidder itself.
Would you say in general the competitive intensity has gone up, remained flattish or down?
I would say the way competitive intensity was at the end of the previous fiscal, the same competitive intensity continues.
Okay.
Segments like, as I mentioned, once again in roads and expressways, whatever we have seen, the same thing continues. We have not seen any structural, I would say, change or difference between competitive intensity 12 months back and what it is today.
Understood. That's very useful. Thank you so much, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sujit Jain from ASK Group. Please go ahead.
If you can just quickly spell out the Hyderabad Metro, liability side of the balance sheet.
The liability side of the balance sheet, Hyderabad Metro has a debt of INR 13,000 crores, external debt, okay? Which has a combination of INR 8,000 crores of medium-term NCDs and INR 5,000 crores of short-term borrowings, because that essentially will get backfilled by a combination of the government assistance that I referred to and also possible TOD monetization, hence that shorter term has been kept. The L&T exposure to Hyderabad Metro is around INR 7,500 crores. On the liability side of the balance sheet, you take INR 7,500 crores equity, INR 13,000 crore debt, so the total balance sheet size is around INR 20,000 crores.
Equity is INR 2,400 in this, right? Rest is cash support.
Yeah, correct.
Accumulated losses would be?
The cumulative losses would be around I don't know. Sorry. I have to take this year. You can take around INR 4,500, please.
Okay. When you are done with this, let's say over a two-year period, INR 1,500 crores from monetization, INR 3,000 crores of support from the government, what would be the cash loss per year? What it gets reduced to then?
So-
Interest cost saving, basically.
Sujit, I would say you are combining everything. First let me tell you that, structurally speaking, Hyderabad Metro ridership, it gets into, I would say a good amount of positive EBITDA to take care of an interest of, say, around INR 9,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore once the ridership goes at around 700,000-750,000. Let me put it that way. Anything on TOD monetization obviously brings in cash and enabling us the third party debt which you are talking at INR 13,000 crore.
The intention is to bring the overall bank, the third party debt to INR 8,000-9,000 crore over the next two to three years, which will be a combination of, let us say, INR 3,000 crore of the state government support, one, and possibly, as I mentioned, around INR 2,000 crore of TOD monetization over the next two years, which will bring the debt level INR 8,000. With the ridership, which is today averaging at, say, 420,000 or so in the current January, I mean, I'm seeing a January number, moving to 600,000 to 700,000, I guess, the worst could be over. Unlikely that L&T may have to infuse further cash as it looks like. Provided what I just now mentioned in terms of TOD monetization and the government assistance comes on time.
FY 2025, most likely.
At this juncture, it's a question of time, so I've given you the boundary lines on that.
Right. The net working capital, which is currently at around 19%, ex of services, how much that would be?
Incidentally, I mean, that's a good question, Sujit. I would also like to tell you that, excluding services, of course, in the working capital, we don't take financial services. What we are reporting at 19 comprises of ITTS portfolio and projects and manufacturing. I wish to tell you the projects and manufacturing working capital intensity is also at around 20 odd %.
What it would have been a year back?
23%.
That is ex of IT, ITTS, 23%.
Right.
Right. Right. Is it safe to say that the nine-month tendering was INR 10.1 trillion, and L&T ex of services got orders of close to I think INR 1.1 lakh crore, right?
See, what we talk about tendering, I think I answered this question. First, we are referring to country-level tendering, right?
Mm-hmm.
There are many tenders of CapEx, where probably L&T may not participate, would not have participated. There are, as I mentioned to answer to previous questions, so many tenders that have come out in transportation infrastructure, where obviously we don't stand a big chance other than very large packages that get tendered out. It is covering all the segments, and all the segment need not be taken by EPC contractors like L&T.
Does this number look far larger than the number in terms of the prospects that you spoke at the beginning of the year?
I take this that I think to, since there has been multiple questions on this particular aspect, what our tender to award ratio and the tender values that we have taken, obviously these are all in public domain. Not necessary is all the opportunities that I mentioned. These are all country level numbers. Not that everything, you know, we are only trying to convey that the CapEx cycle or the investment cycle in the country seems to be shaping out well. From a perspective of specific to our company, I guess I think more important would be the order prospects that we tell at the start of each reporting period. What I mentioned at the start of the year and what we are mentioning today, for the Q4, I think that is more important.
Against which the orders that we book in each quarter will possibly give you what we call the award win ratio.
This INR 4.87 trillion is for Q4 ?
Yes, please.
Right. Right. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Mahawar from UBS Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, PR. Congratulations for the great order inflow. Sir, just two quick questions. First is, you know, the next four, five years of investments of $2.5 billion. Just want to understand the equity investments that L&T is looking at in this number. Roughly that's question number one.
Sorry, can you repeat that question, Amit? I couldn't.
Sir, yeah. The $2.5 billion that we intend to invest through the next couple of years in, you know, lot of green initiatives, along with our partners will involve investments by various partners, you know, total project different, you know. How much is the equity commitment that we're looking at, you know, signing on this number?
Okay. I guess the way we are looking at on the electrolyzer part, I think we communicated that the commitment we are looking to invest is around INR 15 billion. INR 15 billion is the total investment.
Okay.
means that there will be some amount of debt and equity, and the equity will be basis the JV ratio that will happen. Let me once again confirm what we are talking as INR 15 billion, the total investment, and not necessarily the cash flow from L&T towards the entire exposure.
Okay. Okay. That's for that one project. I think we have further more projects like battery storage et cetera.
Storage batteries. Okay, I'll give a refresh. Storage battery, we are looking to commit ourselves to an amount of INR 25 billion, that is INR 2,500 crores. In terms of, I guess, even in the plan that was in the selection of technology and the JV partner was to happen in the later part of FY 2024, which is the next financial year. I guess, it is going to be a more rear-ended investment in the current strategic plan. The investment that is now happening, I would say we are planning to do is the data centers that we are putting up. There are two data centers, which are expected to get, I mean, commissioned in the next, I would say 18 months or so.
30 megawatt data centers, each one in close to Mumbai and another one close to Chennai.
Okay. Is it safe to assume, sir, in this $2.5 billion, the equity commitment by L&T in the next maybe four, five years is going to be a small sum, you know, maybe 10%-20%-
Yeah.
Of the project cost? I can say that, but not more than that.
Okay. I mean, you're asking a structural question, for a Q3 call maybe I should answer, but since you have asked.
Yeah.
Let me put it like this. We are talking of INR 1,500 plus INR 2,500. This is the total investment. One can assume because it's typically manufacturing, apply the standard debt-equity and take a share, even assuming it is a 100% subsidiary on the worst case scenario, which will not happen because the JV partner also will come up the equity. Data center total investment that we're looking at is around INR 18 billion-INR 20 billion.
Cool.
Which is happening from L&T balance sheet.
Got it. Got it. Sure. Thanks. Sir, the last question from my side is, if we've seen last two, three years, the cash on site, you know, strategy that we've been following, we've been freeing cash flows over pure revenue recognition. Even on the EPC active rationalization strategy where L&T seem to be zeroing on some high growth segments, right? Our market share. In FY maybe 2022, 2023, broadly, can I say that our market share in transportation and water, and hydrocarbon would range between 40%-60%, you know? Especially in hydrocarbon, it's anyway 60% plus. In transportation and water, are we, you know, now around 30%-40% of the total bits that we target?
Amit, I think, let me tell you, I am not prepared to give this answer in terms of the overall market share in each of the sub-segments. I guess we'll try to cover that when we close the year. I wish to tell you that, in water, I think the opportunity is fairly reasonable, and we have been getting a good, I would say, a good set of orders. Even in Q3, we managed to get a decent set of orders in especially in the lift irrigation projects in central part of India. That is quite positive. As far as hydrocarbons is concerned, is a combination of, I would say, ordering intensity in both domestic onshore/offshore and Middle East onshore/offshore. We have had, I would say, fairly good wins.
In terms of shares and other things, I guess maybe when we close the year we'll be in a better position to comment.
Okay. Sure. Thank you, sir, and good luck.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, P. congratulations on a good quarter. My first question is on margins. You mentioned that these margins will be the lowest margins we have seen, and from here on, sequentially margins will improve. My question was that we have seen the recent bids, L1, L2, L3. L&T has actually been L2, L3, L4 also in some of the large bids. Can we presume that from here on maybe the worst of the infrastructure margin is behind us and structurally we'll slowly improve our margins from here on every quarter?
Parikshit, I was talking to margins. I was giving you that, you know, what we have witnessed in the current year. I explained to you the reason for the first six months, and we definitely are looking at an improved margin in Q3 in line with our own internal estimates. Okay? In terms of structurally how much margins are improving, obviously it's a combination of competitive intensity, ordering environment, movement of commodity prices, and then, at which stage of your jobs each of the jobs are getting into a valuation threshold, completion contingency releases, completion project cost closures. It's a combination, dynamic combination. Very easy for anybody to ask what is the embedded margins, but it is a volatile environment out there.
I guess the way we are looking at basis the fact that what we have seen now and going forward as more of the recently execute, recently contracted fixed price contracts will get up into execution mode, seems to be that we have bottomed out. Having said this, I would restrict myself to say what we have given a guidance for Q4. Permit us to come back in the month of May when we give the guidance for next year.
Okay, sure. My second question is on the Hyderabad Metro. I just wanted to understand in the first nine months, what has been the loss funding, and for the full year how much you are envisaging. For the next year, what is your expectation of loss funding? Because what I could understand is that though an L&T may stop, may not require loss funding, but whatever info is coming from the Telangana government as a soft assistance, that will go towards L&T's loss funding. It may actually not reduce your debt, so you'll have to incrementally rely more on TOD monetization, which also can spread out over the next two to three years. How will you do the math on reduction on this loss funding? Just wanted to get a sense of that.
Okay. Parikshit, our cumulative exposure on Hyderabad Metro is around INR 7,500 crores as of December. At the start of the financial year, it was around INR 7,200 crores. Which means technically we're looking at additional funding of INR 300 crores that we have done in the current year. If one assumption here was that we did expect that the state government support to come a little earlier and possibly even the TOD monetization. Obviously, this being a concession asset and the fact it is a large concession asset, even a government decision has taken time, but they have been fully aware and fully cooperative with L&T in terms of understanding how L&T is running the metro.
It's a timing mismatch once more, a failing which, if it wanna happen, maybe this INR 300 crore additional funding may not have happened. We do believe that as it stands now with improved ridership and a clear visibility and confirmation with the government on the timing of the assistance, and along with, I would say, I mean, more or less predictable TOD monetization of what I mentioned around INR 2,000 crore over the next six or eight quarters, I think, we should not be seen to be increasing of the times like the way we were talking, when Hyderabad Metro got affected during COVID in the year 2021 and 2021 to 22. Hello?
Yeah, thanks.
Mr. Kandpal, does that answer your question?
Hello.
Mr. Kandpal, does that answer your question?
Yeah, sorry. This is one last one on this. I suggest, you said that over nine months you only had INR 300 crore of loss funding.
Cumulative nine months funding additional. Yeah.
Okay, thank you. Those were my questions and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Mongia from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes. Good evening to you. Thanks for the opportunity. I hope I'm audible to you right now.
Sorry?
Mr. Mongia, please use the handset mode. The audio is not clear.
Is this better?
Yeah, Aditya, go ahead. Let me try to. Okay, ask the question now.
Sure. So, the first question what I had was that, if I see from a three-year CAGR perspective, your backlog has grown at about 8% or so, whereas your execution has grown at a slower pace, at about 5%. This is a three-year CAGR number that I'm kind of speaking about. Do you envisage a pickup in execution now that you've seen almost nine months of good collection? Can it come back to earlier levels fully?
Aditya, if you are taking a three-year CAGR, there are two things which I want to convey, is that in that three years almost six to seven quarters virtually no execution because of COVID, right? That is one. Secondly, I guess, one thing which all of us also, I want to communicate is that, you know, we have been a little more sharper focus on the working capital and restricting the execution to the extent our money is collected in some projects where we believe that the monies may not be coming in or coming on time. I guess it's a combination of this.
Otherwise, going forward, with, barring for supply chain constraints, which is still hanging around here and there in isolated cases when it comes to buying out, especially imports from part of Europe or China, I think otherwise execution momentum is, I would say, quite good. We do expect that the collection momentum, especially for the government-led projects that we are having, that the payments will continue to happen on time because the government's finances seems to be quite smooth and that will continue. Hence, the execution momentum should, hopefully, I think, improve, as we go forward.
A different way of putting this when you start your backlog has grown almost 15% YoY, right? That's an indication of the pace at which you can execute incrementally. Can we think through a similar or a higher number of execution growth for FY 2024? I'm not asking for a number. I'm just talking about direction that-
Directionally, it is common sense what you are concluding, but I would like to take a pause here to say in terms of how we see FY 2024, kindly wait until May.
Understood. The next question that I had was more to kind of analyze numbers slightly better. If I see the standalone numbers YoY for the third quarter, and if I see your core E&C. Core E&C at an EBITDA level has done much better than what standalone other than happen at an EBITDA level. Is there any specific kind of... I'm just trying to get a sense of where can or which subsidy could be kind of driving a recovery or a growth in EBITDA in overall level? Are there certain infrastructure subsidiaries that have started doing better? Is there some one-off effect inside this trend with some sense? Standalone is not as great as core E&C one effect.
Yeah, Aditya, I think the way you need to look at it is, please see hydrocarbon segment in standalone hydrocarbon segment in consolidated. Some of the larger orders in hydrocarbon segment have come in consolidated by way of the orders have been backed in our subsidiaries in the Middle East, right? That is one aspect one may have to be mindful about. Infrastructure, I would say a large part of the orders or infrastructure or execution is happening in standalone entities.
It's only hydrocarbons where there may have been some additional boost beyond standalone.
There is.
Okay. Then lastly, for the past Q2 at a console level, your other income has been showing decent trends. Is it just good cash flows leading to higher other income and should it sustain? Are there any one-offs inside?
Treasury income is obviously a question of two things. One is that you have, I would say, larger amount of cash accruals coming up pending they are deployed, either in business, CapEx, investment or shareholders. Secondly, our ability to manage the volatility in the interest rates, which we have been fairly well until now, and we expect that to continue. It's a combination of both value and return capture.
understood, P.R. Those were my questions and all the very best. Thank you.
Thank you, Aditya.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. P. Ramakrishnan for closing comments.
Thank you, Faizan, and thank you all for having taken your time on a Monday evening so late into this hour. I hope most of your questions have been answered. In case if you guys have any follow-on questions, hygiene-related questions, please feel free to write to me or call me or my colleague, Harish. We'll be glad to answer. Thanks for your time once more, and good night. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Larsen & Toubro Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.