Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Larson Points Limited Q1 FY 'twenty Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, all participants will be in a listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anwar Kumar. Thank you and over to you sir.
Good evening ladies and gentlemen. Very warm welcome to the earnings call for Q1 FY20. We will follow the usual format where I'll first read you through the analyst presentation. We uploaded the presentation around one one hour back and I hope you downloaded it, so that you have a have a have had a chance to go through it and you will be able to follow it as I walk you through. After the end of the presentation, we will open the session to question and answer.
With that, I will first go to the disclaimer slide. Here of course, think this is there except for the fact that just as a gist, we make, we often make some forward looking statements, which may or may not materialize due to causes beyond our control. So, that's just a disclaimer that we like to put on the table before we get into the main presentation and commentary on the results. Just before going to the next slide, before going to the next slide, I'd like to highlight two important things that happened this time. One was the MindT acquisition.
All of you would be aware that we bought over the stake from mister Vijay. She got slightly over 20% that happened just before the year end. And during this quarter, we bought some shares from open market and we also concluded the we also came out with the open option, which was closed on June 28. As on June 30, of course, the open offer has not been transferred to our control, so we had slightly less than 30% of shares. And since we did not have any board representation yet, the board representation was approved by shareholders in the general meeting in July.
The investment that we had made to them of around 30% has been shown as an investment. And Mindtree, as a result, has not it's also not been shown as an investment in associate company. And Mindtree has not been consolidated in this quarter's results. That will happen from Q2 onwards. The second point to note is that, in this quarter, we also got CCI approval for divestment of the electrical and automation business for Schneider Electric.
And even though there are quite a few commodities left to become completed, some conditions of course from Schneider side, but from our side as well, there are some legal commodities that come about with certain factories, including transfer of land and building and plant and machinery to buy names and things like that. And while it may take some time or few more quarters before the transaction is finally concluded, we do think that it will be concluded. We are fairly certain of it being concluded. In the interim, going by the recommendations of either requirements of accounting standards, this business is now classified as discontinued operations. The effect of this is that in the p and l, in the proper profit and loss accounts, you will not find any revenue or expenditure line item.
It will appear just as a one line consolidation on the PAT as profit after tax from discontinued operations. Of course, some of the comparisons that we'll do are including here and there because when we gave our guidance in the beginning of the year, obviously, it was considering a difficult automation for this year. Continue with actually finally, In the balance sheet as well, all the assets and detailed assets and liabilities, whether they be fixed assets or working capital or net or any other liabilities are also removed and it appears as an asset held for sale as a one line item in the balance sheet as well. So these are the two main events that happened during the quarter. And now go to the next slide, which is a highlight slide, the slide number four.
Here, you can see that we have done well on all operating parameters. It's a very decent set of numbers in a resilient environment. Order inflows grew by 11%, more on that later. Order book, of course, is a generation of order inflows and revenue along with opening order book, and that has grown by 10%. Essentially because our absolute quantum of order increases significantly higher than revenue.
As far as revenue is concerned, it grew by 10%, which is decent in the present circumstances. The profitable growth has obviously translated to a higher EBITDA overall at a corporate level of 50% growth. And the EBITDA, obviously, has held on to the PAT level as well because PAT has grown by 21%. Going to the next slide, which is which slide number five dealing with key financial parameters. As far as order inflow is concerned, we have grown by 11% as you can see, slightly 38,700 crores.
And last part of this is, has come from PSUs and tariff, I'll use that in a in the next slide. Here, I have covered order book, covered revenue, EBITDA, reported VAT. Net working capital is something which you can see has gone up to 23% this quarter, against 21% in at the end of Q1 FY19 and a lower amount around 18% at the end of last year. So it has has been a significant increase. And here, I'd like to touch upon why it has gone up so significantly.
Firstly, in this quarter, we have seen all round sluggishness in releasing payments by both central and as well as state government, as well as in some cases, PSUs and private sector. Of course, the central and state government sluggishness is probably, was probably because of the election overhang. But see that as it may impact in the state government orders, particularly the state government, saw significant hold back of government. And in some cases, reasons given were that state budgets have not yet been approved. That was one major reason for increase in working capital.
Another thing is that we, I think all of us are well aware that we are operating in an extremely tough liquidity environment. Media has reported on this ad infinitum on things like NBFC liquidity and bank scaling recapitalization and lack of credit and slowdown in the economy and stuff like that. What has happened, what has also happened is that some of our vendors who are much smaller than us have also been affected by this popularity. And so in this quarter, we have actually supported vendors to a large extent and we have released significant amount of payments to vendors which has brought from the vendor credit, which is sitting in current liabilities, which in turn has led to an increase in net working capital. So these are the three essential reasons for improving increase in the net working capital.
And we do hope that going forward, as the environment improves, we'll be able to claw back some of the increase going forward. Of course, I always maintain that working capital since it is across hundreds of sites is one of the most difficult things to monitor and control. But by and large, I think once you can rest assure that we are taking every effort, businesses are taking every effort to control that. The return on net worth, return on equity compared to Q1 FY19, Q1 of 14.6% has gone to Q1 in 15.4% in Q1 twenty and this is for trailing twelve months. So we continue our journey of steady improvement of ROE and our target of achieving 18% by end of FY 'twenty one, by FY 'twenty one still holds good.
We now move to the next slide, which is order info and order book. This this year, in this quarter, in a very difficult environment, as I mentioned earlier, we have grown our order inflows by 11%. And the order inflow momentum has largely been sustained through PSU and private sector orders. As I mentioned, one thing which was very clear is that central government and state government ordering became very very sluggish during restraint and, Of course, we do think that is largely due to an election overhang. And to give you an idea, around 90% of our orders have come from PSUs and private sector, almost equally divided.
That's the extent of support that we have got from peers in the private sector. So actually speaking, in the beginning of the year, I think all of you would recollect that we guided for few order inflows towards the second half of the year, primarily because we had assumed that there'll be an election overhang and the first half would be just a slowdown in the ordering momentum. Fortunately, we've grown by 11%. As far as the order book is concerned, you can see that it's still a very healthy INR 94,000 crore order book and this of course provides a good operational hedge against cyclicality in different sectors that are inherent in the phase that we operate in. Go to the next slide, please.
So one thing about order book, I'd also like to, slide number seven, in the order book, we have shown 2 lakh 90,000, 2 lakh 94,000 crores. There are now there are six business verticals, we call them independent companies, which are almost of equal size of around 13 to 14% of the order book. And hence, we think that our order book is sufficiently diversified and our dependence, there's no dependence on one single vertical within our business portfolio. Now move to the next slide, slide number eight, which includes sales and costs. Here, you would have seen a 10% revenue growth, but entire revenue growth has come from domestic.
Domestic revenue has actually grown by 15% and international has been grown by 1% and this is primarily due to flat order book in international. It remains the same, practically at around sixty three sixty two thousand crores approximately. NCO expenses is by and large in line with the revenue increase. The finance charge of financial services and operation, finance lease that we have today is, has grown quite a bit and this is in line with the loan book of financial services, which if you had gone through the results, you would have seen that it grew by 15% or so. As far as staff costs are concerned, there's been a 10% increase, this is essentially on the back of the resource augmentation in the services business of energy and product, energy technology services and services.
In fact, on a net basis, we've added around, if you take average of Q1 FY19 versus average of Q1 twenty, we have an average of Q1 FY20, you added around 10,000 people in terms of headcount. Now we move to slide number nine, which deals with the backup from EBITDA going right down to VAT. EBITDA, as you can make out, has grown very healthy at 20%. Net type of other income has grown significantly and this is essentially because of salary income on a higher investment, average investment debt. In fact, we had created a fair amount of liquidity buffer, which has put us in good seeds as a MINT acquisition is concerned.
But during the quarter, we had an average of around, on the standalone balance sheet, had around INR 10,000 crores of investment versus INR 8,000 crores in the last year. So that has also given us very good thing. And treasury yields have also gone up to around 10% versus 5% last year. As far as finance cost is concerned, that is also gone up because our debt has also gone up and the average debt, again, in the stand alone, NTT was around 39,000 crores versus 17,000 crores a year back. And here again, as I mentioned, it's essentially on account of the liquidity buffer that we built up.
Taxes expenses have gone down. There were some changes in the one reason was the change in the treatment of dividend distribution tax. Non controlling interest is one of primarily representing higher share of the profit from entities with which are subsidiaries which are listed. The current venture and SME company prior to the IDC Road and Forging performance as well as the Mitsubishi power equipment manufacturing joint venture. And the previous year, if you recollect, includes a one time in which gain, and that is one of the reasons it it is just a negative, primarily because of IDCL road initial stage of road losses that we continue to get and without that one time gain.
Discontinued operations, as I mentioned earlier, represents a PAT from electrical and automation business, and that's around 1,100,000,000.0. It's grown by 31% and done very well. So PAT before exceptional has actually grown to 29%. Of course, the reported PAP has grown by 21%. Now the exceptional represents impairment in a road equity, which was under and we impaired the equity here because financial creator has referred to NCLT and got the proceedings admitted in NCLT.
So we will apply a, we have abundant prudence, we impaired the equity investment in this particular JV as well. Now coming to the next slide, which is a segment composition on slide 11. This is essentially for reference. And here, you'll notice that we have classified electrical automation again as differentiated operation and we put it right right towards the end. This is for reference in case anybody wants to see the details of individual segments.
Now moving to the next slide, slide number 12. This is again, essentially for reference, which gives us pickup of order inflow, order inflow composition. And you can, here again, can see both the regulatory breakup as well as the vertical rise breakup. And in the vertical rise breakup, a notable item this time is power, which is owned by seventeen point three, which is which accounts for 17.3% of the total order inflow and more on that later. And then into the next slide, which deals with order book, This also is for reference.
But one thing you can see, again, here is that in the past, we have talked about our foray into what we call near shore geographies outside The Middle East, essentially in parts of East Africa, including Mauritius, North Africa as well as East Asia and Southeast Asia wherever possible. And we've been plugging away at that and the results are there for all to see and in fact, if you make the total international order book, around half of the order book is now from non Middle East companies as of end of Q1. Now we move to the next slide, slide number, I think, which gives you the revenue composition. Here too, this is essentially for reference. And you can make out that as far as the geographical concern, spread is concerned, fairly spread out across Middle East, USA, Europe, essentially through M and T, particular, technology services as well as rest of the world.
And infrastructure here again is a big daddy as far as we are concerned and Moving to the next slide, slide number 15. In terms of the segment, which happens to be our largest segment, order inflow order inflow was very efficient. And this time, you got notable some notable inflows, some airport orders. We got a water order from Sri Lanka. We got a decoration order from Gujarat.
We got a gold beneficiation order from Saudi Arabia as well as a different telecom network order. All these have led to a decent order inflow in this segment. And revenues have grown by 14% and it's a very noteworthy growth in this difficult time, as I mentioned earlier. And the strong revenue growth is on, number one, we had a robust opening order book. And secondly, the conversion of the order book across, these revenues across business verticals.
As far as the margins are concerned, the margins, of course, reflect seasonal execution and job mix, and it's can also be seasonal volatility in and where it's also dependent on percentage of completion. So, right in the beginning, every every every quarter, I continue to say that please do not view quarterly margins as representative of year as a whole and certainly not for project duration, which typically goes up to three years. One point I must also mention is as far as revenues are concerned, you can see that the revenues are almost entirely driven by domestic. Domestic revenues have gone up from 84,000,000,000 to 106,000,000,000, whereas international revenues have declined a bit. And that is essentially because of some large market orders which we had in international markets tapering off now.
Then nearing the end stage of the stages of execution. We now move to the next slide, which is power. Here, of course, I think most of you would be aware that we got a very large order, easy to order, which refinished the q one order book. And this is a order from India, two into six sixty megawatt, and it is very significant for this sector because this sector was being paid by a lot of issues where overcapacity is concerned. We have boiler and turbine manufacturing capacity in excess of 20 gigawatt, 20 to 25 gigawatt, whereas ordering, annual ordering is barely around seven, eight gigawatt every year.
So this order is very significant for us. We are also targeting around another seven gigawatt of coal fired power plant EPC orders, which is on our prospectus. If all those get ordered out, then we we hope that we will be able to get some some more business there. Emission control is good, both flu gas desulfurization as well as electric catalytic reagent for control of toxin loss, emission control. They're around 60 kilowatts of retrofit in the pipeline, and we are now seeing this coming out, I can say, quite fixed primarily, fast and tech actually, primarily because most of you will be aware that the contentious issues or whether PPAs could be revised because of increased capital cost halfway through the power plant operations has been settled.
And since that has been settled, that's why you're seeing orders coming out three and two. We're also targeting some Bangladesh jobs and hope to get some international business as well from that. Here, the revenue decline of 48% is essentially because of the low opening order book. All of you would have seen quarter by quarter by quarter, the order book has been decreasing. Of course, this quarter has got replenished.
And margins here again, 4.1% to 3.3% are defective on public and stage. So I would not read too much into this and here again, like infra, margins are also subject to a fair amount of quarterly volatility. Another point to note, which I keep on reiterating is that the profits of our Mitsubishi JV, Mitsubishi, Hitachi, power system JV, both in boiler and turbine and other JV companies, smaller JVs, like, consolidated at 80 under equity method. So they do not find a place at EBITDA, whether at revenue or at EBITDA level. Going to the next slide, which is heavy engineering segment.
Here, you will recollect that last year, they had a very strong order in close and they still carry an order, a very healthy order book of a fairly decent order book of around 4,000 crores or so. And that has been opening large order book has led to significant revenue ramp up in this particular quarter of 162%. It's a seller revenue growth and essentially driven by the opening order book. One point as far as orders are concerned, in the current quarter, we have also seen some orders getting, order inflows getting impacted by government from contracts. The order, the revenues that we have locked up, which is close to INR900 crores or so, is actually essentially high-tech manufacturing.
And today, we are executing around 35 reactors simultaneously. So our top capacity is running at full capacity. As far as margins are concerned, optically, there's a significant drop of margin from 36% to around 20%. This year, again, I must also point out that last year, under new standard, India's one one five standard, we were required to start analyzing expected credit loss on contract assets. And because they, Q1 of last year, they managed to control their working capital contract assets significantly.
They landed up to the credit of credit, whereby they got around a 44 write back of expected credit loss provisions. So to some extent, that has also led to an optical reduction in margin. But 15.5% is a very healthy margin level as all of you would understand by any standard whatsoever. And the reason why they get such high margins is essentially because of the global com competence. They're known worldwide for their competence.
They demonstrate technology, their differentiation. Their their thousands of welding process and master thousands of welding processes, for example. They have a proven track record, and they've also managed to extract cost efficiencies, all leading to very healthy margins. Going to the next slide, which is defense engineering. Here, this sector continues to be played by by, you could call it, very slow policy change initiative, whereby, while the government for years has been articulating its desire to involve private sector participation and manufacturing in a meaningful manner, very little has actually translated to actual order into the private sector.
Predominantly public sector driven. And even today, a fair amount of nominated orders go to the public sector. So the slow pace of policy change continues in this particular sector. However, we did get a pretty significantly large order, slightly less than 5,000 crores a couple of years back, that was a fact, actually, the. And the execution of that is on enforcing, and that is the main reason why you see a 33% growth in revenue of this particular sector.
And this order continues to drive both revenues as well as margins. Here again, margins reflect the sales, senior education, job mix, as well as of course, operational efficiency. So this is a quarterly variation, which I think you should wait till the year end before taking a view on the full year margins. Going to the next slide, which is Hydrocarbon. Here, the order inflows are entirely domestic.
This year, this quarter, we hardly had anything and any international international orders. And of course, the large international order, which we are expecting to happen in Q1, move to the early part of Q2. So that port, hopefully, portends well for the Q2 numbers. The revenue growth here is again on the back of higher order book. And what you can see is that revenues now, this particular business account for almost 50% of the total, close to 50% of the total revenues, which which is in line with its because hydrocarbon is a global global business.
What we are seeing is that home oil prices is also leading to a very healthy prospect pipeline in both in the in the countries that we target. They're essentially Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE and Algeria. Margins are fairly stable between seven to seven to point six, and this is, you know, again to efficient execution. And here though here, though the margin, we are seeing slightly lower on a in a on an optical basis compared to other segments. The fact is that because of its superlative working capital management, this particular business runs up one of the highest return on investment investment capital that we have in most of our business verticals.
Going to the next slide, which is information technology and technology and technology services. I think here, before commenting on the results, I think here, all of us are aware that this is going to a very difficult period on the two parts. One is increased localization in The US, particularly, which is leading to higher staff costs for most IT majors. And there's also increased protectionism by via visa restrictions and higher visa fees, and this is a quarter that is usually impacted. And this business has been no different as far as that is concerned.
However, growth has been decent. Energy imported revenues grew fairly well and it was led by CTG, retail and pharma, high-tech media and entertainment as well as by energy and utilities. Energy technology services, which is essentially through outsourcing of r and d engineering, also had decent revenue growth led by transportation vertical, plant engineering and medical devices verticals. As far as we combine both these segments together for the purpose of segment reporting and obviously, if any of you would like to get better granularity into operations, you can always go through these. Both of these companies are listed companies, so you can go through their investor presentation and fact sheet to sell it on their site.
With that as it may, the margins have fallen slightly. And here, of course, the reasons are the reasons that I mentioned earlier, which is essentially due to increased staff costs and higher fees. This is the next slide, which is developmental projects. This, of course, is a bit of a difficult segment in the sense that there's a large one off last year. When we sold Containerboard in Toshikwali, we had a large one off gain, which was sitting in the revenues and margins there.
So strictly speaking, the margins are not comparable. But the segment today in the does not include port because we have divested that. It includes power development business and Hyderabad Metro. I mentioned that the Kajukwali Fourth Divestment last year drove the revenues and margins. This year, the revenues, you can make out, has largely been driven by Nava, around $9.90 crores.
And in that case of Nava, the TLF marginally increased by 1% from 75% to 76% in spite of some planned outage for maintenance. Hyderabad Metro, all of you would be aware that we achieved partial COD in different phases, 35 kilometers in November 17, sixteen kilometers in September 18 and nine kilometers in March 19, total of 55 kilometers and the remaining part is well underway. Hopefully, over the next one or two quarters, we should be able to commission the full metro. Since this is still under construction and we are yet to see the benefit of network effect as well as completely computerized scheduling of things, the margin profile is still emerging and once it's fully commissioned, we should be able to give you a better idea of the margin profile. As of our metro has lot of revenues of 190 crores, The increase over last year is essentially, last year was slightly over 100 crores, Q1 of last year and the increase is essentially on increase in the fare box revenues.
It's it's either one which is also EBITDA positive, as is as is only expected. Here, this segment does not include revenues and EBITDA here are not included as far as IDPL, roads and transportation line are concerned, because these are also consolidated at GAT level and equity method on a single line item. Going to the next slide, slide number 22, other segment, this is a residuary segment and it comprises of construction and mining equipment, which is our CMD, a rubber processing machinery, industrial lines and reality business. Of the year, you would have seen a 14% decline in revenues and while rubber processing machinery has done reasonably well on both revenue growth as well as decent margins, you would recollect that last year Q1 had a fairly significant amount about handover of apartments in our project, which led to a bump up in revenues in that particular quarter. This year, we don't have that.
So that's why you see a revenue decline. And when I say, I mean, if you see the margin moving from 26%, 26 and a half to 24.1, even though all businesses have done reasonably well as far as EBITDA margins are concerned, since reality has slightly higher margins than the rest of it, the lower share of revenues of reality compared to the previous year has led to a small dip in the margin profile of this segment. Here again, I'd like to also highlight that ever since India's one one five was implemented where we started accounting for revenues on handing over a flat or legal handover a flat, The revenue profile has become a bit lumpy from quarter to quarter. But here again, I would like to point out that on a slightly longer term basis or even on a yearly basis, it's it's not as if the revenues are one off. To give you an idea, today, we have around, we have a number of projects which we are executing, two in Pawaii, one in Parail, in Main Sea Boulevard, we in Bangalore, we've also launched second phase of that.
And we've also launched a project in Sioux, the residential project in Sioux now that the Mumbai Town Subalance has started work, so connectivity has improved. So land prices was one of there, and we felt it was an opportune time to launch a residential project there. We the total total number of apartments under long term of these projects is around four and a half thousand apartments. We handed over 1,500 apartments approximately, give or take a few year and then, for which, obviously, the revenues have been credited to the PNL. So we still have to hand over 2,900 apartments where revenues will come over the next two to three years or so.
And out of the 2,900 apartments, we sold we sold fair amount close to around 1,900 apartments, and we are yet to sell around 1,000 apartments that are yet to be sold. So the limited point I'm trying to make here is that while revenues may be lumpy from quarter to quarter, on a slightly longer term basis, they are certainly not one off. Now going to the next slide, slide number 23, which is the financial services. This is group level. Here, some of the numbers you see may not tell you with what they have reported.
For example, as far as PAT is concerned, we obviously know of the net controlling interest before incorporating the numbers in our consolidated financials. So I'm going by those rules. But this business has seen a strong growth in a challenging environment, and even though the investment fell a bit, their loan book increased by six 16%. I think all of you would be aware that there's been there's been many concerns around the NBFC space, particularly after the ILF and ILNFS as well as the the on housing issues surfaced. But the point to note, as far as this business is concerned, it's a very difficult environment.
They manage their liquidity very well, both liquidity as well as interest rate sensitivity. As far as and asset liability maturity, it matches their brand very well. In fact, as far as the M and M buckets are concerned, every single time bucket, zero to thirty days are going right up to different buckets within a one year period. Receivables are more than the payables. So they are in a decent position as far as liquidity development is concerned.
Their focus continues to be on realization of the loan book, holding on to robust NIM and fee income, which is very robust around 6.8% today. I also mentioned prudent ALM. They are focused on improving their quality of assets, which has led to lower credit cost and increasing the diversity of funding sources instead of being completely dependent on banks and mutual funds. The PAT in this quarter has been impacted by credit provision on the exposure that they had subject to some bond issued by a housing finance company and because of changing credit rating, they provided for 50% of exposure and that's why you find a small dip in the VAT compared to Q1 of last year. Moving to the next slide, slide number 84.
This, purposely kept to the last slide of the segment wise. Here, the the growth has been essentially obtained through good performance of standard products and metering business. The metering for the business, of course, was very positively impacted by the initiative initiative where the government has been trying to reach power meter power to all houses across the country, including rural and semi urban areas. We've seen a margin improvement as well, and this margin improvement represents both operational efficiencies as well as a better realization from a favorable sales mix. With that, I now go to a very competitive slide, which is slide number 25.
Here, of course, like usual, I will not dwell on each and every factor, but essentially, that brown circle at the bottom represents represents our strategy five years. Essentially, it captures the essence of our five year strategy, at least up to FY '21, and we think that there is a rock solid strategy. The outside outside that semicircle represents the various external factors which affect us directly or indirectly. There are four broad segments to that as well. One is the sectoral drivers that affect us on a macro drivers or its government policy or of course, they are global factors.
I've highlighted some of the points in green, which today tend to be slightly favorable as far as we are concerned. But more than that, I'd like to I'd like to briefly give a commentary on the environment as well as outlook in general. When we get our results last time around, elections were yet to happen. Now we have a stable government. Election outcome is known.
We do think that that will lead to continuity in policies and and cannibalization of resources into productive areas, particularly as far as infra is concerned. There's one thing which I think all of us are aware is that there's been some deterioration in economic indicators. But if you really look closely, these are centered around the consumption and industrial activity, things like fall in four wheeler sales or IIT all over the place. Whereas as far as we are concerned, we generally operate in areas of infrastructure where that data doesn't find a place in many of the economic indicators that you are seeing. And that is one area where we are seeing significant strength, even though most of that strength is coming from the public sector.
And even the private sector, there has been some investment momentum, but it's not broad based as yet. All of you are aware that every year, we do a bottoms up assessment of the prospect pipeline project by project by project, which we aggregate at the corporate level. And we find that the bottoms up assessment is still very strong. In fact, even at the end of Q1, when not the government projects, state government or central government projects were ordered out, the prospect pipeline is still strong and today, even today stands at around 8 lakh 40,000 crores. Now coming to the domestic order book, we I mentioned that we have a domestic order book of around 2 lakh 30,000 crores, slightly over 2 lakh 30,000 crores.
The broad composition is that our private sector accounts for 23% of that and central government, state government and GSEs account for the balance 7777%. The sectors which are showing strength in investor momentum are essentially roads and road adjacencies like expressways and special measures and flyover projects. Metro is seeing a very decent investor momentum primarily because almost every city in the country is looking at a Metro is solution as a solution for terrible problems of urban urban traffic condition. Water projects are still, the process pipeline is still very strong, whether it is supply and distribution projects or whether it's wastewater, covering effluent treatment plants or sewage treatment plants or even litigation programs. Our transmission distribution is still decent, even though we do think that the Sogak initiative will probably start differing our subject maybe from FY '21 because the large part of it will have got ordered out in by the end of this year.
Hydrocarbon is also I think you can sell both onshore and offshore in the domestic market and international markets as well. And as far as railways are concerned, while we have not seen much traction from Indian railways, the high speed rail program is starting to happen now and some tendering activity has started. As far as private sector is concerned, we have seen some strength in airport, commercial buildings and healthcare. Nothing very much in industrial. And whether that is episodic or whether there is an upswell in the investment momentum is extremely difficult
We'll have to wait and watch. There's nothing very much happening not not too much happening on the industrial credit front. And, of course, the PPP space is something which apart from hybrid energy projects is not seeing much traction. Of course, airport is also PVD, so that is seeing traction, but other areas are not seeing much traction. Our guidance remains unchanged.
And just to reiterate, you guided for an order inflow growth for the full year of between ten to 12%. We guided for revenue growth of 10 to 15% for the full year. And as far as EBITDA margins are concerned, you will be aware that we guide on our businesses excluding services business of Inphotect technology services, financial services and developmental business. Now excluding these services business, we have guided for stable margins compared to last year. One small point, I'd again like to reiterate over and over again that please do not view quarterly results as representative over the full year and do not try to interpolate or extrapolate it.
And that's right with the the danger of going seriously wrong. Come to the end of my presentation, but I also request you to go through the annexes and this time, in the annexes, we changed the format of one annexes trajectory given an annexure of segment margins. Primarily to link the segment margins that we talk about in in our presentation to link it with what is published in the advertisement for, we reconcile it right to segment, in turn is reconciled with activity which is appearing in the main case of the profit and loss account. There are also other annexures like balance sheet, cash flow, share of profit from JVs and SME companies, which you can, which are there for reference, you can refer to those at at your leisure. With that, I'd like to open the session to question and answer.
Over to you, Omar. Thank you very much. The first question is from the line of Mr. Dev Alsia from Investec. Please go ahead.
Mr. Steph Hathia, your line is unmuted for questions. Please go ahead. I think there's no response from the line. We'll move to the next question, which is from the line of Sumit Kishore from JPMorgan.
Good evening, Adam. Hi, Sumit.
Hi. My first question is in relation to infra segment margins, not as much for the quarter. Management commentary post FY19 results in the annual meet was that infra segment margins in FY20 will improve versus FY nineteen. Is there any change, you know, given the evolving environment? And there were certain costs over and going to client side issues, you know, which which was supposed to be recouped in in coming quarters.
What is the update on the same?
So, sir, leave me your second question. We never said it would be recouped in coming quarters. We said that we've raised things on banks of auto runs, and our exchange is that it typically takes a significant amount of time. In fact, in some cases, we've seen it extend the the time line extends into a couple of years as well. So it is not a couple of quarters.
I I think we we said couple of years, but the time lines are very, you can go seriously wrong if you try to focus timelines there. As far as margin guidance for infrastructure, while we don't give guidance for individual segments, but yes, we do, we did say that we expect infra margins to improve from margins that we saw last year and that still holds good.
Okay. So my second question is, know, owing to recent developments in AG, is there an impact on execution of a portion of the C and D order between that state and including the coastal road project in Mumbai, what is the quantum of such contracts where execution is impacted currently?
Actually, as far as coastal road is concerned, it will be until something maybe within 5 to 6,000 would be my estimate. But it will take a couple of couple of months before we expect it to come back. All the variances as the funds are now obtained. Fortunately, we are in the very initial stages, so our exposure is very minimal. Far as is concerned as well, our exposure is also not our exposure as far as balance sheet exposure is concerned is not very large.
And we are in discussion with the state government to to see whether we can find a probable solution because all these projects were competitively bid actually. It's not that we got them from to nominated orders. And we signed contracts with mobilized resources, initial resources. So we'll have to wait and see how much, whether at all it will have any impact. So I guess over the next few months, get better clarity on both the coastal road outcome as well as as well as projects.
As of now, there's no exactly the projects that energy happens.
So we have Amravati projects as well in in our end. We will have to wait and see how that turns out. Okay. I contact with the with the government. So, and India is a country where there is still sanctity of contract and avenue for regional is required.
Sure, thanks. Thank you. You. Next question is from the line of from. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good evening, sir. Hi, Hi, sir. So one thing on the order flow side, we see a pretty strong number despite EMU not being a part of the mix. So in terms of your comment also, you mentioned the prospect list continues to remain strong.
So in terms of outlook, do you perceive that the interest could be more export driven, not domestic if the environment remains in the near term near term or the next couple of quarters? What the split of the prospect list across agency? Sorry? How would be the mix of the prospect list across business segments?
First thing, think, please recollect what we said in the beginning of the year when we declared our Q4 numbers. We also said that order and we expect order inflows to be more real and then this year than it was last year. Last year, is much more even eastern. We and that was predicated on the assumption that the general elections will have some overhang on awarding investment momentum in the first half of the year. And that is exactly what is playing out.
But at the same time, I also mentioned that the project base is still by and large impact. It's not that large number of projects have been dropped. I mentioned the total amount of 8 lakh 40,000 crores. So a very brief idea of how that stacks stacks up is that in infra in the infra, including power transition distribution, prospect pipeline is around 5 lakh 40,000 crores. Our taking power generation generation is around 50,000 crores and power TMT is around 1 lakh crores.
Hydrocarbon, large number of prospects has been ordered out in the international international space, and we have not one not one those. And the prospect pipeline there is around 1 lakh 20,000 crores. Metamurgical and metal handling is relatively small around 20,000 crores, and any engineering and defense, we can deliver it is around 10,000 crores. Of course, have not taken any possible possible things that could happen in defense. See a large program if private sector participation comes through.
But even that, if it comes through, likely it will take some time. So that's how the stack up of 8 lakh 40,000 crores, what the how that 8 lakh 41,000 crores stacks up. Obviously, as far as the international is concerned, international accounts for approximately 1 lakh 55,000 crores and essentially centered around hydrocarbon or transmission distribution and some some smaller quantum in infrastructure. So domestic is still fairly strong. So in the pipeline today is fairly strong.
That's why we have kept our order inflow guidance unchanged. In fact, in spite of being blockbuster, having a blockbuster performance in order inflow last year.
Sure and sir, within the quarter, would it be possible to highlight in terms of within the other segment, what would be the mix of reality? So this is despite reality revenues qualitatively being softer, all the margins still are relatively healthy 24%. We actually tend to have 45%, 50% kind of margins. So just trying to see what would have been the mix of reality this quarter versus last year?
You know, can't give you that level of granularity. Sorry, but I can't give you that level of granularity. But I should say that, it's not as if reality margins are suddenly falling off a cliff. It's not that. We've also decent revenue revenues in reality this quarter as well.
It's just that last year, we had a large number of that handed over in our portfolio project.
Sure. And lastly, on the working capital side, as in most of the segments are seeing growth in line with your comments also in business environment. But in heavy engineering, where you would have expected more export driven orders there, the capital employed has
seen a substantial jump.
So are there any one offs or certain elements there? Are there last couple of quarters, which is fourth quarter and again one q has to be formed there, like, one off numbers?
See, working capital, there's no one off, you know. There's a buildup with capital over a period of time. There's no large one off there.
Right. Because the overall capital employed still is a matter of as in higher on a q two level as well.
Production line in for the for the. So, could also influence cable employed.
Okay. Okay.
Okay, sir. Thank you so much and all the best.
Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shukrit Mitra from James Financial. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir.
Hi, Shukrit. Hello, sir. How are doing? I'm doing well. Thank you.
Great. Sir, congratulations on a set of numbers. My question is with regard to the point that you mentioned on AP. So while I do understand that clarity is still to emerge as to whether or not there will be any impact, is it possible to get an indication as to what portion of our order book or what quantum of the order book would have some exposure to AP? It would be between two to 3%, approximately.
3% of the issue that you put up. Yeah. Correct, sir. Correct So correct. May I have some result?
Yes. If they get finally canceled and these if we exhaust all our avenues of reversal as well. Understand, understand. And on the the Coastal Road project, you did mention that, that's about INR 5,000 odd. How do you see that coming out?
Because it's supposed to be a very important project on the safety perspective. So what kind of timelines are you looking at? See, we just started the coastal road. We hardly spent any money there. It's a very small amount that we have spent.
So fortunately, it's been it happened in the early stages and not when we after through the project. See, we got the project and government, state government got all necessary approvals that were required by law. It was that because of a public litigation that the high court has taken a voluntary decision in spite of earlier Supreme Court decision. So we do understand that the case government is actually in the high court. So maybe within a couple of few months' time, we think that we could see some resolution of this happening because everything we we go by signed contracts.
So and whatever permissions are required to be obtained were obtained. So if the Supreme Court directs sales government to get necessary clearances once again or additional clearances, we'll probably go about that. It could take a couple of months or so. Understood understood. Thanks a lot.
That's it from my side. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Benjie Chiruvam from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Hi, sir.
Good afternoon. Hi. This working capital, if you can just help us understand what was the impact due to the receivables, and what was the impact on the payables? Was payable more impacted or which is which portion of this has been impacted more for the 2% increase? Receivables were not impacted at all.
Okay. So it's largely due to the, our vendor support we had to keep Yeah. Correct. Yeah. And do we this liquidity situation, if it continues like this, is there something to worry about or do we are we seeing that improving?
Our sense is that we do think that it will improve. So it will recollect if you didn't get it was just declared sometime less than a month or month. So now those will be calculated and calculated to individual departments. Government will pass their own budget, the political stability. So, there's a direct recapitalization on the card.
The center is sort of giving a a sovereign backing to India field, which could improve credit credit growth, could kick start investments. So we do think that it will start gradually improving, but I guess, if from the question that you asked is somewhat like a crystal ball gazing exercise. There again, I'm making a forward looking statement. Okay. And again, the RoDTC was kind of slowed down in the last year.
So is that Road EPC awarding those projects, R2C traction? See, more often than not, we are not bidding for standard in the NHI road, more often than what we typically tend to look for expressways rather than thin roads. Expressways, of course, are considerably value added, activity much more. Venular road may be about around $12.12 13 crores from a per kilometer, and the expressway would be in excess of 40 crores per kilometer. So there are lot of value added, and there are some expressways and flyover projects across the country.
So program is expressway, I think the next wave of investments in the road area would be more focused on expressways, the large and pay well, highways. Okay. And on this high speed rail, what is the status now and where where where do you stand there in the high speed? It's a big project. So is there any increase in the overall project costing?
Is that something that we get from the media that you sort of feel project cost has increased or something like that? I think we'll have to wait and see. This is in a very early stage from tendering and just started. We have to wait and see what type of investment momentum happens on that front. Too early to say at this point of time, Benjie.
Okay. And this road project was impacted if you can This road project was it was a along with some of the And then the essential intention from what I understand is that benefits that we are supposed to receive from the state government have not not been forthcoming. They're using that as a instance of default. And that's why they filed a case in NCLC for insolvency. Thank you sir.
Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Venu Gupta from Bernstein. Please go ahead. Hi, Mr.
Manu. Hi, Venu. I just wanted to firstly, I just want to understand some, get some clarity on the working capital side. In the opening remarks, you mentioned that you know, given that it is an election quarter, understandably, what have been issued with respect to state governments, etcetera, where you said that they didn't even have their even after action getting over that their business budgets were not ready. That's the reason these releases of.
But I do understand in some cases, but overall, we have seen a sluggishness across the board in in particularly some.
So but you mentioned receivables are not impacted at all.
Yeah. Because otherwise, we could our execution could have ramped up significantly. Oh, okay. From that perspective. Got it.
Got it. The the second thing is, has you know, this Coastal Road order, as well as Telangana, you know, can you know, mean, not a cancellation. That's the one they want to cancel. This is a part of your order book currently because or has it been removed? Because when I see the order backlog calculation, it seems to be some gap.
So has there been anything removed which is for the order? We've removed around 6,000 crores of orders which are not moving. And these are not these orders, basically. These are not these orders, these orders, sir. Sir, lastly, on the mind free thing, see, I think it is very apparent that you borrowed money in anticipation of the purchase that you have to do.
So you are the cost of borrowing, and of course, it's also, Not in this quarter. Okay. Thanks thanks a lot. Thank you, Anut. Thank you.
The next question is from the line of from Access Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, Rishikesh. Two questions. First, on the auto side, since you have already dropped a good number in Q1 and you thought the profit line also remains very strong for you.
Is there a chance of higher ordering from the government side in the second half, which you can which will kick up the order inflow more than the 10% to 12% higher than 10 to 12%? And second, if you can give us a flavor of, you know, the payment terms in these contracts, have you changed due to liquidity applications at this point in time, specifically because you have got some large power orders and, you know, some some of the other PSUs as well. Payment terms are pretty much the same. It's not that they've changed. The payment terms became much tighter, quite something like that.
If you recollect ten years back, the milestone payments used to be much more frequent, so we used to get advances in every order, but those days have long gone. Momentum has become tight along time. So there's nothing very much different. As far as your order inflow guidance is concerned, I think it's too early to say, number one. Secondly, you've been tracking this sector for a long time, Abhijit.
So you realize that trying to predict order inflows with any level of certainty is thought with the dealers are going seriously wrong. So I think we'd wait and watch to see how things pan out towards end later part of the year before guiding you on whether there could be an upside or downside. So I don't want to even speculate on that at this point of time. Yes, sure. That is understandable since it's been, again, getting places.
So obviously, flat, but since your, the cost right pipeline remains at the same level as starting the year despite having such large orders in Q1. Just trying to understand your favor. But in the private sector side, could you give us a say that there is one in your commentary, say industry, there's not construction, but the private sector auto book is 23 of total auto book. So where is that coming from and where are we, you know, tracking it or how are we capturing it or categorizing it? Maybe the Air Force is in that.
Right? Airport is in that commercial building orders we got from last year as well is sitting there. Fair bit of healthcare orders are sitting there as well. And of course, some orders of metallurgical and digital lending are also sitting there. Some factory orders, which we got last year.
Last year, we got close to 2,000 crores of orders, any instrument are also sitting there. So all that constitutes a 33% order book together. Understood. You have not talked about that segment in your, you know, the overall list of prospects when you have given the feedback. So is there any number attached to that commercial, which is health care, which is in fact treatment segment We as can't get into that level of granularity.
As I said, these are just prospects on the horizon. So we do not like to speculate on what could happen there. But suffice to say that healthcare process is decent. That's helpful, sir. My last question is on the EBITDA numbers that are there in next year that you have given segment margins.
The previous year has been categorized as about crores, it's 13.7% EBITDA margin in Q1 FY 'nineteen, just for the last year. And in the in the beginning slide, where you were giving the cost pick up, the EBITDA has been mentioned at 3,700 crores. So just wanted to understand what will be the difference there. Sorry. Could you repeat your question?
Q one FY nineteen, if we add up all this all the segments here Mhmm. That that EBITDA is about $3.87. At this time, we have to remove the onetime daily provision of $7.50 odd crores. But even if I remove that, it's still about 5,100 crores. So look at the and it says, we've been a reconciliation right up to seven fifty IT level, which is which is what we reported for our published advertisement.
Yes. So there, PGIT is about 5,700 crores, whereas in on your slide number nine, where you give the performance that you just paid the curve, there, the EBITDA is at 2,700. So that's what I'm just trying to understand. We'll I don't want to get one thing is that that also includes electrical and automation, which is which the main P and L does not have, that's on the discontinuing operation, that's one difference as well. 50, not 150 odd crores.
But if you, if you really look at, if you look at the published advertisement in the segment 2,700 reconciliation is due right down to $2.00 $1.07 KBT. I don't want to get into a reconciliation at this time, But profit before Q1 FY19 was $2.00 $1.07 on the main phase of that advertisement. And in the segment information that PBT, how it becomes two zero one seven is there in the published segment information itself. So we'll go through that and we'll take it offline if required. Okay?
Sure. We will that, sir. Okay. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Indrajit Pattia from Macquarie.
Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, Indra. Hi, Indra.
My first question is on this order info number. Actually, you've mentioned 6,000 odd crores order get removed. Is it possible to kind of give this section? Because, yeah, actually, in power, we see your announced order in close of 6,700 crores while there is an announcement of a mega order there. So are there any large orders in power space which have been kind of knocked off?
No, this is not power space, there's some orders in metal space and a fair bit of real estate orders that that were not moved, that were knocked off. Think everybody knows stresses and strain that real estate sector is going to in general, and this is an outcome of that.
Okay. So then how come our order inflow for the entire quarter is lower than, say, I'm assuming 7,000 crore is the is the threshold for that mega order. So, what? So, we have announced a mega order in power, which is 7,000 crore
That is inclusive of GST. Okay Okay. Order value is included in GST, but what we account for here is net of GST.
Got it. Got it. Got it. And then one very simple request, you have given this new annexure, which is in terms of video broken down to TGIT level. But I think in the previous presentation, we could get actually applied up to the tax and at the tax level.
If you could also kind of maybe for this kind of give us on the core e n c, what's the tax level if you have that number handy?
Sorry, I don't have that number handy.
Okay. Okay. That's it from my side. Thank you,
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from IDFP Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Good evening, sir.
Sir, two questions, sir. Plus, since have you restated the last year order book? Sorry? Have you restated the last year order book to exclude the electrical automation order in the order inflow? Yeah.
Okay. I think that has there has there been any meeting with high level negotiation from which you are in Sudesh? And what is called in the quarter? I'm not aware of that granular level ticket. Last question, sir?
I I recollect that high level committee was to discuss solar power tariff reduction, if I'm not if I'm not wrong. There are some committees, one is for this, is for this, to what I mean. We're actually involved in the current business segment. Right? So that's another business strategy.
Last question, sir. The recent prospect by National Hydrocarbon, Has it changed from the beginning of the year, if you like, compared to the, you know, the July? Yeah. I mentioned that a number of projects were ordered out, and some projects were also deferred. Okay.
Thank you. Thank you. You. The next question is from the line of from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Sir, thanks a lot for taking my questions. Okay, sir. Hello, sir. My first question is, if I look at the revenue growth of the services business, it has quite a lot of quarters, but that growth has moderated. Now since we are giving a guidance of 12% to 15% of top line growth, would you be able to give a rough split of how much of that would come from services and how much of that would likely to come from the non services business?
I'm sorry, I will not be able to give you that guide as a whole, suffice to say that we do some details, any detailed budgeting exercise based upon which we give our guidance. So all these are factored in our guidance. No. So my question really is, does the core business or the nonservices business grow at early double digit this time around, given, as I said, that for the first time, the finance and IT business have actually grown in the mid to low teens, which is actually growing in high twenties in the previous, know, six, seven quarters. If you do the math, it does translate into the IT services business continues to go quarterly, and we meet our growth guidance.
Sure sir. Sir my second question is, when you say that part of the reason finance cost has gone up is also because of partial COD of HFR Metro. Could you give a sense of how this finance cost could look like on full commission? 55 out of about 70 odd kilometers, should we look at financing costs going up much higher in the third quarter of this year? Any help on that would be would be very useful.
Okay, then sorry to disappoint you, but you have to wait for a couple of quarters before you can give any sort of picture on that. Sure, sir. Thank you. You. The next question is from the line of Ravi Swaminathan from Spark Capital.
Please go ahead. Sorry. I hear you. Yeah. Sir, please go ahead.
Yeah. So the infrastructure margins have come kind of come off. So, I mean, by around thirty days. So I mean, and this has been happening for the last year also. So just wanted to get with you with some kind of pressures.
See, Ravi, right in the beginning, I already said that we we please do not look at margins on a quarterly basis, particularly. But yes, if you, I think it was also well known that from q three last year, q three on last year onwards, we started taking some fairly significant cost provisions in our transportation intra project. So to that extent, that is also affected because it was not the sector is not all that high in transportation intra last year in q one. So to that extent, it's also there. But as I mentioned, lot of it depends upon stage of integration, whether some large projects cost, margin recognition threshold.
So, wait for a few more quarters before taking a quarter before trying to extrapolate full year margins on intra. Got it, sir. Got it. Yeah. Sir, this is Varuni.
So just wanted to find out from when
would the
Mindstream Mindstream number be looking the consolidated number, sir? Hopefully, from, we should be reflecting from Q two onwards, because we've now been classified as a promoter now. So, it will be a line by line consolidation, of course, with non controlling interest and difference and all that as well. Understood. And final question from our side.
So could you give us the number of either one of project cost and the the existing debt on this book? We will have to, again, wait for some time before we get into that level of detail as far as Metro is concerned. Okay, sir. No problem. I'll come with it.
Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Gupta Chitraola from Quest and Investment. Please go ahead. You sort of order, so you've been gathering there.
Obviously, there has been a lot of noise on news sub segmentally what the tech is being had. Is is that significant, if you could to our first line of 8.4 or was it in a half? I'm sure you've done that, please. Okay. And any reason to set up for cheap water pipeline and lift irrigation if you can highlight, you know, which is one in q one?
No. We've done decent orders, but you will recognize that last year, q one, we got some blockbuster orders from or this irrigation from. Right. It's difficult to match that performance in one quarter, but pipeline is strong, and we do expect to land up with a decent order inflow number this year as well. So my last follow-up on this is that, I mean, recently saw you guys debriefed the chief validation order, etcetera, that had an O and M contract.
Now we have been mentioning that we don't want to get into asset heavy businesses. So I I understand, I mean, O and M is not necessarily owning the assets. How do you consolidate these things, please? Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chet Mohen Singh from Master Accounting Services.
Please go ahead. Good evening, sir. Good evening. So my first question, Regis, what is the driving increase of borrowing 63,000,000,000 on trial number 29 in others. As it's which is excluding future services and driver's budget.
Even growth, the 60 ratio increased 1.9 x from 1.8 x. Sorry, I couldn't get your question. Could you speak a bit louder, please? Sir, what is the what is it that's driving the increase in the borrowing 63,000,000,000 on slide number 29 in other things of borrowing? Yeah.
It is through the financial process and development project. Is it okay? Let me let me put it this way. Large part of that is borrowing on a standalone entity. I also mentioned that to some extent, are building up liquidity buffers.
On the other hand, there was also another compulsion that our debt our debt equity ratio in the standard or entity has fallen to call something like point two. And we normally target a debt equity ratio of around point four. So we brought it up to around point three, five, 26 or thereabouts. That's a that's a essential part of our capital structure management, which also ties in with our return on equity targets.
Okay okay. And sir, my
second question is, what is your guidance on the revenue and ODM flow in relation to power segment? We don't give any specific guidance relating to individual segments. I'm sorry to disappoint you on that. Okay. You so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Duresh Pachitanya from HSBC. Just on the Asylum side, if I look at Q and Q, there's been some decline there. You explained it, but just in terms of any mark to market impact in the quarter on the way the treasury has moved, etcetera. I mean, is this if you can quantify any number here, which could be one off for this quarter?
It's not a decline. It's an increase, Rajesh. Okay. It's Oh. 10% increase.
So so if I'm looking at other income in fourth quarter, it is about 611 crores. We are looking at fourth quarter. Yeah yeah yeah. Fourth quarter versus fourth quarter now. I'll have to get back to you on that.
Sequential, actually, Q4 to Q1 is not really way in which we look at it is because our business tends to be very lumpy from quarter to quarter and Fair enough. Because last two, three quarters, it was about 64. So I thought, is there any one off there? I'll just I'll just offline. Yeah.
Thank you. Thank you. Your follow-up question is from the line of Indrajit Bhatia from Macquarie. Please go ahead.
Hi. Have a couple of questions. One is on the this ENA deal. Is there going to be any renegotiation on price or that price is set even after whatever changes after CCI settlement? The price is set.
Okay. So, despite certain businesses to be retained or that that will not get impacted?
No no, that, what businesses to be retained, those are very small businesses, which are decided upfront when the MOU itself was signed. That is not something we can come about now.
Okay okay Okay. And and one one thing on the staff sorry. Is the staff that there was any provision made for, say, pension liabilities have been revised up because of yield falling?
Part of part part of it goes to OCI. Last part of it goes to OCI.
Okay. Okay. It's not in the sub cost. Okay. Got it.
That's it. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that will be the last question for today. I now hand the conference to mister Ahmed Montal for closing comments. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Thank you ladies and gentlemen for a very patient hearing, a very long presentation and a very interactive session thereafter. With that, we'll close this session. Thank you and good night. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Class nine Silver Limited, all concludes today's conference.
Thank you all for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.