Good day, and welcome to Tata Motors Q2 FY 2024 Results Call. With me today are PB Balaji, Group CFO, Tata Motors; Mr. Girish Wagh, Executive Director, Tata Motors; Mr. Shailesh Chandra, MD, Tata Motors Passenger Vehicles Limited and Tata Passenger Electric Mobility Limited; Mr. Adrian Mardell, CEO, Jaguar Land Rover; Mr. Richard Molyneux, CFO, Jaguar Land Rover, and my colleagues from the Investor Relations team. Today, we plan to walk you through the results presentation, followed by Q&A. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode, and we will be taking questions via the Teams platform, which is already open for you to submit your questions. You are requested to mention your name and the name of your organization when submitting the question. I now hand over to Balaji to take this forward.
Thank you. Can you go to the next slide, please? The standard safe harbor statement. Yeah, nothing additional to add here. No further changes to any accounting statements or anything. From a quarter perspective, a series of actions underway this quarter. I think let me try and tease out the ones that are really big here. The portfolio of CNG, which Shailesh is going to talk about later, doing well for us. And 1,000-odd e-buses, with the latest being Srinagar, that was launched yesterday. And of course, from a getting ready for the future perspective, I think both in Tata Motors and in JLR, in JLR, the whole energy testing site for EVs, as well as here, the H2ICE testing facility in India, both big ones coming through.
And in JLR, the confidence of the future of cash flows being manifested in the bonds that were bought back, as well as the China loan that was repaid, which I'm sure will get covered later in the discussion. Next slide, please. Overall revenues, we came in at INR 105,000 crore for the quarter, with an EBITDA of 13.7%. And, on, this, EBIT growth, EBIT number of 7.5%, you could recollect, we did signal that we're going to have a temporary blip between Q1 and Q2 because of the summer shutdown that we had in JLR. That's exactly how it has played out. And PBT (bei) came in at INR 6,100 crore.
I'm sure there is, there's going to be a question later today in terms of why is it that between PBT and PAT, the tax rates or tax costs have gone up significantly? There is just... Let me cover that right away. Given JLR's earlier performance, we are not in a position to recognize the deferred tax asset in excess of our deferred tax liabilities. And therefore, because it's an asset recognition, accounting will force you to show a consistent track record for that, and that is what is causing a bit of noise on that. Happy to dwell in further detail in case you want further detail, but on an overall basis, the tax rate remains the same, 25%. 25% that we had already signaled, no change to that.
Free Cash Flows came in strong again this quarter at INR 3,900 crore. I also want to quickly cover the H1 numbers that you see. PBT (BEI) stepping up by almost INR 18,000 crore, and on a year-on-year basis, the cash flows have also stepped up by INR 15,000 crore, taking the net debt down to INR 38,700 crore. So well on track to whatever commitments we had on the deleveraged plan. Next slide, please. Split of growth between volume and mostly led by volume, mix, and price, and translation, of course, yielded a little bit. Profitability, particularly pleasing, because every vertical was firing on the profitability side and hence, over-contributing to the overall increase that you see.
The net automotive debt at INR 38,700 crore, split up by Tata Motors India, I think we are very confident that business will go net cash by end of this year, and the JLR by the next year, and therefore, we believe we are on—well on track for deleveraging targets. Next slide. On corporate action side, a lot of action, some of this you've already seen the news. First was Tata Technologies, where we had a pre-IPO deal, which we signed with TPG Rise Climate, which is... and Ratan Tata Endowment Foundation. And this is actually going—it's a strategic sale, and to that extent, this business is going to benefit from someone like TPG Rise coming in, and it's a climate-dedicated fund, and their experience in investing in green technologies will be of benefit to us.
This transaction has been closed, and cash has been received by end of the last few days. And of course, from a IPO perspective, their actions are underway, and the timing, of course, will be decided by the TTL board post-final approvals. Next slide. The second transaction that we did was the acquisition of a 27% stake in Freight Tiger. This is a significant... I haven't had talked about it, maybe I'll take a minute to spend on it. Indian freight market is massive and fragmented, and here, while the investments have gone on, trucking in trucks, a lot of investments have gone in, not to be said the same about freight ordering or management of the whole freight process.
Therefore, this is an area where Freight Tiger tries to solve the problem by providing the end-to-end digital software as a service solution. Fleet Edge is a trucking product that we have, which sits on our connected vehicle platform and helps both fleet operators and drivers. By integrating these two, we can now give a comprehensive freight management solution. Therefore, from the stakeholders, and I'm very careful to use the word stakeholder, where there are so many stakeholders in this. For the shipper, it's going to result in lower freight costs because of matching. There is for the transporter, there's better transparency on freight availability, faster payments for the entire truck operators there. For everybody, enhanced visibility and reliability, and therefore, this is quite an interesting transaction coming through and fits in very well with Girish's digital plan that we have.
for the CV business. The transaction, we will invest INR 150 crore, which we've already done. The money has already gone out of our bank this one, and we are now at 26.79% owner, where CPs have been completed. In the next 2-3 years, we'll invest an additional INR 100 crore as required, and thereafter, we'll have the right to buy the other investors at the then fair market value. A very interesting transaction, and something we are very excited by. Next slide. This is the latest one that's just been announced, where Avinya will be underpinned by JLR's EMA platform. I'm sure Shailesh and Adrian both can talk about it later in the presentation.
But it's a, it's a very important transaction for us, because this is TPEM's premium pure electric vehicle series, Avinya, which we revealed last year. And this will be developed on EMA, with JLR is well underway, and on, on timelines to launch the first car. And this will be an MOU for access to the EMA platform, including the electrical and electronic architectures, the EDUs, the drive units, that is, battery assembly, and the manufacturing know-how for a royalty fee. For us, it accelerates our entry into the high-end segment. It delivers a global product upfront, reduces development costs and cycle time, that's already it would have been already validated by JLR, and accelerates our adoption of advanced ADAS technologies. So this helps Tata Motors leapfrog, the, the market as far as the Indian market is concerned.
But this is not being conceived only for India. It's actually being conceived as a global product, which makes it a very interesting proposition for us. So these are the three actions that we have from a corporate side. Let me now hand it over to, Richard, to take you through the JLR story. Richard, over to you.
Thank you very much, Balaji. Yes, so let's go to the next chart, because it's important to show JLR is really delivering strongly, both financially and operationally. We're setting records. So if you look at the top line, our Q2 performance, revenue up 30% year-on-year to GBP 6.9 billion. That is a record. We have never achieved that level before in Q2. Our EBIT is down a little bit, at 7.3%, for the quarter. We always mentioned when we showed the Q1 numbers, that there was a small one-off favorable in there that would feed back out. So it's actually probably more relevant to look at the H1 EBIT percent of 8%. PBT in the quarter, GBP 442 million and GBP 300 million pounds of operating cashflow.
What that means for the first half of the year is GBP 13.8 billion worth of revenue, which is a record. It's also a record in terms of per unit. In terms of per unit, we're now up at 72,000 GBP per car. Delivering 8% EBIT, GBP 877 million worth of PBT, which is up GBP 1.6 billion year-over-year, and an H1 cash flow of GBP 751 million. That is not only an H1 record cash flow for us, it is a record cash flow by GBP 250 billion. Billion pounds, excuse me. So we're setting records, we're delivering well. So if we move on to the next chart. I won't go through this in detail.
This will cover the comments that I have made and will make as we go through this presentation. It's there for your record, so you can go back to it afterwards. So we move on to the next chart, which shows our wholesale performance, which was up 29% in the quarter from... Sorry, up 4% in the quarter, from 93,000 to 97,000 units, up 29% for the half. In terms of the brands, Range Rover, fairly flat. Look, this is something that's expected for us. We're still production constrained on Range Rover, and as Balaji mentioned, we have a 2-week plant shutdown in the quarter. So it's no surprise that that's flat.
Defender continues to do extremely well for us, 30,000 units in the quarter, and Jaguar was also up in the quarter, although if you look at the table of the first half of the year below, you can see Jaguar is pretty flat, and the volume increase is coming primarily from Range Rover and Defender, which is up considerably on a year-by-year basis. So on a H1 to H1 basis, we're up 29%. Next chart. So if we look at this on a regional basis, I think the only thing I'll point out in terms of both the quarter is, look, China. China, we know, is a very, very tough market at the moment, but we are showing strong resilience in that market. Actually, quarter-on-quarter, we're up, and we're fairly flat year-on-year.
That does show the power of the modern luxury brands that we have, and how they can cut through, at the top end, some of the noise and the pressures of the market. Most of the other regions performed really well. If you look at the second bar chart down there, the first half of the year, every single region is doing better than it was in the previous year. In terms of the bars on the right, our percentage of electrified vehicles, that's both PHEV and BEV, was relatively flat in the quarter. Actually, it went up from 12.7 to 13%, but that's a number that we expect to stay fairly static, until we launch our new BEV, starting with the Range Rover BEV, at the end of next year. Next chart.
So the next chart shows the development of our profit before tax from last year to this year, and shows an increase of GBP 615 million year-over-year in our PBT delivery. So just explaining that, the largest chunk, quite obviously, is volume and mix. Volume was 21,500 units higher than the previous year, and mix is also stronger. That is Defender up from 23%-31%, and Range Rover Sport up from 6%-17%. So both positives in terms of volume and in terms of mix. Pricing for us is also an something which has been positive over the last year. We are showing a very small increase in our variable marketing expense, but do note that's going from 1.1%-1.5%.
Those are levels which are still extremely strong and represent the sort of need to not discount greatly in the modern luxury space of the market. So we've done very well to keep VME at those types of levels, while keeping an order bank of 168,000 units. Material cost is actually favorable for us in this quarter. Now, that is largely because at this time last year was when we were really suffering in terms of material cost, particularly in terms of the amounts that we were having to spend to brokers to source semiconductor chips. As that industry has stabilized now, we don't need to spend those monies. So on a year-to-year basis, material cost is actually showing some improvements for us.
We do know that we're going to have to continue to spend some money on demand generation. So you can see there, GBP 96 million adverse year-over-year in FME and selling. Of that, GBP 62 million was in marketing expense. Some of you that have been following the Rugby World Cup that's been going on will have spotted where a chunk of that went in terms of our sponsorship through Defender at the Rugby World Cup. Foreign exchange actually net favorable for us year-over-year. One year ago, this quarter was the quarter when we had the premiership of Liz Truss, and Sterling did take a step down to $1.10. It's come back up this quarter to circa $1.22.
That's given us an operational FX adverse, but quite a strong hedge position, and the revaluation of our balance sheet and debt meant that the net foreign exchange impact for us is favorable. That's the explanation, but don't lose sight of the bottom line. We have improved our PBT by GBP 615 million versus the same quarter last year, and that PBT is the best that we've had for several years. Next chart then, please. Here we go. This then takes PBT through to cash flow. The number I'd like to focus there is the cash profit after tax, but before investment, at GBP 151 billion. That is also a record for us, by the way, but as much as being a record, I'd like to focus on the consistency of that number.
In the last three quarters, that number has been GBP 1.116 billion, then GBP 1.135 billion, and now GBP 1.151 billion. So we are very consistently delivering GBP 1.1 billion pound of cash profit after tax before investment. That's a really strong message. We did spend a little bit more in investment. I'll come and talk about that in a minute. That's a natural part of our cycle plan. Working capital was a little bit adverse for us in the quarter. That is largely the effect that the two-week summer shutdown has in terms of our payables. However, we delivered GBP 300 million worth of operating cash flow. Next chart. In terms of our investment, we've said GBP 775 million.
Of that, 577 million was engineering, and 64% of that, or GBP 368 million, was capitalized. I think it is important to understand that for us, that capitalization ratio is something that does wax and wane according to where we are in the product life cycle. So if I look at it for the same quarter last year, it was 40%. Same quarter the year before, it was 37%. Same quarter the year before that, it was 68%. So this is something that will evolve for us. It always gets higher as we approach major launches, because then the engineers are working on programs that have passed their capitalization hurdles, and it always goes down when we are working on programs which are further into the future.
So we would expect that level to probably increase a little bit over the next couple of quarters, and then, as we move through next year, to start coming down. Next chart. Right, business update. So if we move forward, you can see here, this is our wholesale history. You can see the trend from that low point of just sub 65,000 units in Q2 FY 2022. We are continuing to improve, and in the next couple of quarters, we will improve those deliveries more. That's partly as a result of something I'll come and talk to you about on MLA in a second, and partly the result of there are greater working days in the next two quarters than there were in the last two. We're not completely out of the woods on supply constraints yet.
They still do appear, but they are appearing in slightly different guises. It, it's not really major semiconductor constraints that we're seeing. We're seeing the type of events and challenges that are slightly more normal, unfortunately, in an industry where you get floods at suppliers or fires at suppliers. But we're getting very good at responding to those very fast. So we do expect Q3 and Q4, both wholesale volumes and production volumes, to improve even over the numbers that you can see there on that page. Next chart. Now, you all know how important Range Rover and Range Rover Sport are for us, and that Range Rover and Range Rover Sport and Defender make 77% of our current order bank. So production of those vehicles is extremely important.
We did manage to keep it constant quarter-over-quarter in terms of average number of vehicles produced per week. But we did manage to trial through one week of 3,263 cars, in fact, to be precise, 3,263 was our peak volume. We expect that to continue to improve through the back end of the year. We do have an additional body shop for MLA coming on stream towards the end of this month. That will start a ramp-up process, but it will allow us to increase those numbers as we go into the back end of this quarter and through into next year. Next chart. So where do we stand? We are performing well operationally, financially, and we're setting records, and we expect to be able to set more records in the quarters ahead.
So we expect our volumes to recover. We expect inflation to moderate, and we're changing our guidance in terms of EBIT from prior guidance of 6%+ to around 8%. That shows the confidence in the delivery that we're, we're currently producing, that we can maintain those levels. Net debt, we ended the quarter at GBP 2.249 billion, so GBP 2.25 billion pounds. That is, exactly half of it was a year ago. So we have halved our net debt in 12 months, and we commit to get that net debt down from GBP 2.249 billion to lower than GBP 1 billion pounds by the end of this financial year. We will focus on execution, executing our plans flawlessly and continuing to deliver both financially and operationally. Thank you. I'll hand it back to, Balaji.
Thanks, Richard. Quickly moving on to commercial vehicles. Girish and I will take this section. Next slide, please. On the market share front, we had an improvement sequentially from 39.1% to 39.7%, particularly hearteningly, the heavies are starting to do well. And as the supply chain issues, the portfolio gaps that we had, then even the I&LCV sections are doing well. But we do have a challenge on the small commercial vehicles, and that's an area which we are well focused on to ensure that comes back again. Then it'll take a little bit of time as we, as we pivot this business to a B to C kind of a thinking. So that is something which we are working on. Next slide, please. But the work on pivot to quality is yielding us handsome returns.
Revenue is up by 22% at INR 20,000 crore and EBITDA up by 540 basis points and now at 10.4%. We committed to deliver a double-digit EBITDA. We delivered this quarter as well as on a half year basis. And of course, from a profitability perspective, this business has generated about INR 1,500 crore this quarter and overall INR 2,500 crore for the year so far. So on a, on a very good track as far as profitability is concerned. Next slide. Where did the monies come from? Combination of volume mix, as well as realization, I draw your attention to the realization increase, so substantial improvement coming through there. That is was, that was the strategy, that is what is yielding us the benefits.
As you saw in the previous slide, it's also yielding market shares in the key heavies and the intermediate sections. Of course, work to be done on the smalls. Next slide, please. Let me hand over to Girish to give you a sense from a business flavor perspective. Girish, over to you.
Yes. So thanks, Balaji. So we had a good growth in volumes, almost 21%, quarter-on-quarter, and 6%, year-on-year, with all the availability issues that we had in Q1 being addressed. Balaji has already spoken about the market share, and I think, if I may say, in M&HCV, our Q2 market share is now already ahead of the FY 2023 market share. In I&LCV and passenger, we are growing market share month-over-month as the availability issues have been addressed. And in small commercial vehicle and pickups, I think, as Balaji mentioned, we are pivoting towards, on one hand, improving the unit economics, and on the other hand, improving the business model from B2 B2 C, and we will claw back the market share as we go ahead. We...
You know, if you see the non-vehicle business, revenue also grew by 20% over Q2 of last year. This is one business that has been growing handsomely, with very good improvement in penetration in the spare parts as well as service.
We had around 17% of our volumes being generated through digital channels, leads from digital channels, so I think we are consistently maintaining it at this level. If you look at the bright spots, first is, you know, for us, the trucks, that is M&HCVs, grew by 24% over the same quarter last year. Passenger carriers grew, that is, buses and vans, grew by almost 32%. I think the customer sentiment index, it remained firm or improved across segments. So generally, second quarter, monsoon quarter, does see a dip in medium and heavy commercial vehicles, which is what we saw, but otherwise, other segments did well. On the commodities, we had tailwind due to softening of commodities, especially steel and precious metal, so had good tailwind on the margins.
Of course, I think we have been pushing our cost reduction efforts as also improving realizations month-over-month, which is all what has helped in margin improvement. I must also say, I think, post the introduction of BS6 Phase II, we have been getting good traction on all products, and there has been a lot of focus on influencer advocacy as well as a lot of in-market back-to-back trials to prove the improvement in total cost of ownership. In addition to this, we have also introduced more than 200 variants within Quarter Two to expand the portfolio. So going ahead, I think we are quite clear, we will continue to drive the realization improvement.
We have already taken a price increase on first of October because we see some commodity headwinds, especially from steel, coming in Q3, likely to come in Q3, so that's the price increase that we have taken. While we continue to drive realization improvement, we will keep upping the Vahan share, which is what we are focusing on with the help of our BS6 Phase II product range. We, of course, have a very differentiated focus on HV portfolio. I already spoke about that. We are driving now profitable growth and building a very sustainable model, so pull-based model rather than having a push, VME-based push. We have been scaling up our EV supplies, both the Ace EV as well as the electric buses, and I'll speak about this in detail on the next slide.
We will obviously continue the growth in our spares and service per penetration, and therefore, the revenue from the downstream business. In international markets, we have been maintaining our market shares in all the key markets, have improved our margins, and we are also maintaining channel health, as the total industry volumes in most of these markets are below even the last year. Next slide. If I speak about the electric mobility in detail, now, we have almost... Let me first speak about ACE. So we have more than 1,600 Ace EVs plying on the roads, and together, they have clocked more than 4 million kilometers, so good experience under the belt now.
I'm also pleased to inform you that just two days back, we have received the PLI certificate, so Ace EV becomes the first four-wheeled commercial electric vehicle to receive the PLI certificate. So with this, we will now further strengthen our efforts in increasing the volumes. The retail numbers of Ace EV are growing month-over-month, and we continue a strong engagement with the ecosystem stakeholders to ensure finance availability, charging infrastructure availability, as also enhancing our reach to keep on scaling up the volumes. Coming to the smart city mobility solution, so we have now almost 500 electric buses deployed between Delhi Transport Corporation, and just yesterday, we had inauguration of our buses supplied to Jammu and Kashmir also.
Cumulatively, we have now crossed more than 97 million kilometers, and I think in all the contracts, we are delivering more than 95% uptime and almost close to 100% uptime, towards the end of Quarter Two. I think the buses have been delivering pretty well. I already spoke about Jammu and Kashmir, and I think the focus that we have in this business right now is laying a foundation for a very strong business. A lot of focus on putting in place processes, IT and digital enablement. We also received ISO certificates for some of our depots, which have been started a year back, and we'll continue to do the same for other depots also. On the...
I'm also very happy to let you know that, we had taken a specific position on the new tenders in absence of the payment security mechanism, and I think the government, we have been having a lot of engagement with the government, a lot of positive response from the government. And as we understand in the new tender, which is likely to come up from the Ministry of Housing and Urban Affairs, the payment security mechanism may find a place in that, which will see us coming back aggressively in this space. On the digital side, I think Balaji has already spoken about, the Freight Tiger piece. So the Freight Tiger operates in the logistics ecosystem, whereas Fleet Edge is a very strong platform in the truck ecosystem.
We now have almost 500,000 vehicles on the platform, and we, we continue to grow this. The engagement times are also improving month-over-month. We introduced the subscription modules from second quarter, and we've seen good traction from the customers for the same. As I said, the engagement time is being improved with enhanced informative and contextual insights on operations, that is, operations of the trucks, the vehicle health and the driving behavior, which is actually helping the customers to improve their real-time total cost of ownership.
I won't speak further on the Freight Tiger, as Balaji has spoken about it, but actually it provides a very comprehensive end-to-end solution for us, connecting both the truck ecosystem and the trip ecosystem, and will actually be a win-win proposition for all the stakeholders, whether it is the shippers, the logistics service providers, and fleet owners, which are going to be our customers. e-Dukaan, which is our online marketplace for the spare parts, I think, we have grown very handsomely, four times over Q2 over FY 2023. And I must say, actually, this is helping us to improve the penetration, so the customers who otherwise would have not bought from us or gone for, second-hand, I think, are coming to us, through this. Last point, I would say, the retails, as I said, from the digital leads, also continue to be healthy.
Almost 17% of our volumes are coming from that. That's the summary of CV business. Balaji, back to you.
Thanks, Girish. Going on to the PV side. Next slide, please. Our domestic market share is at 13.4% for the quarter. If you recollect, this is where we said the first half of the year is going to be challenging for us because we have our products are all coming rear-ended, while most of competition has launched their products in the first half. So pretty happy to see the way it ended as 13.4%. At the same time, if you look at the October month, we did come back into the 14% plus zone, so it's exactly in line with what we had planned. The other reassuring piece is the EV as a portion of the total portfolio sitting at 13%.
I've seen a lot of questions coming on EV growth, which I'm sure Girish, Shailesh will cover quite extensively in his Q&A. Next slide, please. Overall EV volumes, so remember that this is a transition quarter for us, because in the entire PV business, we had our three big products, Nexon, undergoing a change, both the ICE version as well as the EV version. Safari, Harrier launching in October. So to that extent, it has been a quarter where we had to manage the ins and outs, and that explains the EV volume sequential decline that you see. But year-on-year continues to do well, and the way the Nexon orders are currently picking up, which I again see a lot of questions on, we are quite comfortable with the way it is currently positioned. Next slide, please.
Overall numbers, the revenues went down 3% for the reasons I just explained, but despite that, EBITDA up 110 basis points at 6.5%, EBIT at INR 180 crores, sorry, 1.8%, +140 basis points, and PBT (bei) of about INR 300 crores for the quarter, and INR 500 crores for the year so far. So the business is starting to, step up, step up the profitability, once again. Next slide, please. This is probably the most, eagerly awaited slide. How do we split the PV, EV numbers? Hold that point for a minute. The... See the way, where the monies have come from. The volume decline, and the mix, because, don't forget that Nexon, Harrier, and Safari are our most profitable products.
Those are the ones where we did see a volume challenge, and that's the reason the volume and mix are taking the EBIT numbers down. At the same time, variable cost significant savings starting to come through, including in battery prices, as we had indicated last time, and hence the profitability coming up because of that. Fixed cost increases, fundamentally coming out, a fair amount of amortization being pushed through, as well as charge outs of CapEx, as is happening. The step up in FMEs is also a cause for the fixed cost numbers, which we are not unduly concerned about.
On the EV line, we, the PV business right now from an EBITDA perspective is at 9.2%, which is a very important number, because this is a business where we want it to be as close to double-digit EBITDA as possible. We are, we are there. So this business is now nearing the double-digit EBITDA that we had once had an aspiration for. This aspiration has turned into reality. At the same time, the EV business, the size is stepping up, and the EBITDA of -5% or INR 100 crore loss that you see, needs to be contrasted with some of the numbers that have come out from some of the global OEMs. We are well in control of our numbers and very, very much in the affordability zone.
This is particularly noteworthy because almost this entire INR 100 crore is product and development expenses that are being charged off. This EBITDA will continue to increase further as the battery prices come off further and as the new contracts are coming in place. You should see an improvement in Q3 and a significant improvement in Q4. Again, remember, no PLI benefits have been considered on this, so that comes and adds on top of it. So we have the business very well positioned for both growth and profitability increase and market share in the second half of the year as the new products start coming through. Next slide. Shailesh?
Thank you, Balaji. Let me start with the industry highlights first.
In quarter two, the high base effect of last year, quarter two, April, in the wholesale was just a single digit growth, which was 8%. It is important to note that 8% of the sales is now accounted by the new nameplate launches in the industry. The segment shift, the structural shift that we have been seeing towards SUVs, further, you know, pronounced in the quarter two. Now it is at 50% plus share, and which is at the cost of the decline of hatches. As far as Tata Motors' PV and EV business is concerned, as Balaji mentioned, that the focus was to manage the model transitions well, while keeping the wholesale volume maintained in line with the plan, and we delivered that. There has been a sequential margin growth, as Balaji already covered that point.
Very important that we have, we have been trending now number 2 in hatch segment. We sold about 48,000 numbers in quarter two, and this is basically on the back of, the multi-powertrain strategy that we have, which is CNGs, electric, as well as petrol, which is really delivering, higher volumes, in a very challenged segment, I would say. Talking about the bright spots in the industry, I believe that quarter three is going to see, sustained momentum. You already saw the first month, was a very high wholesale month. There's a strong retail momentum that one is seeing, in the festive period, and festive periods end after Diwali. So we don't see a problem in terms of the demand as it was being anticipated.
Supply concern clearly looks to be eased out, like, particularly when we talk about the semiconductor. As far as Tata Motors is concerned, we launched the iCNG version range. If you remember in May, that is in quarter one, we had launched Altroz iCNG, which was the first product with twin cylinder technology, really was received well. And in quarter two, we launched three additional products with twin cylinder technology. That was Punch iCNG, Tiago, and Tigor. Just so that all of them are really doing good. Balaji showed that in H1, we are at 13% share in CNG, but this has grown to nearly 20% now. Launch of new Nexon, Nexon EV is another point which Balaji had mentioned, but these two launches have really been good.
It's, you know, while the waiting periods were very high in the first month, but in the last two months, we have nearly supplied 32,000 numbers, and that has moderated the waiting period to 3-4 months period. Now, Harrier Safari was also the other facelift that we launched in the last month, which is October. This is the most safe car. As per the GNCAP, we were able to get five-star rating, but with the highest ever score that any car in India has got. A very strong bookings coming in. It's with all the segment leading features, and we strongly believe that this is also going to do well. So we are...
All the launches that recently we have done, which is CNG, Nexon, Harrier, Safari, really augurs well for us in quarter three and going forward. In terms of challenges, yes, high levels of challenge, particularly, as you know, in the industry, in anticipation of a strong festive season. Hopefully, you know, the Diwali will also, you know, have strong demand outlook, so therefore we expect that the inventory should come within the normal levels. Regulatory support reduced for EVs in some key markets, but particularly I'm talking about Telangana, where there is uncertainty, uncertainty around the road tax waiver. Hope, you know, that will get clarified, and therefore, the volumes are going to come back. As I said, that SUVs have gained their salience, but this has come at the cost of hatches and sedans.
So therefore, our plan would be to ramp up the supply for the new launches to drive volume growth. We have done well for Nexon so far in two months. Harrier Safari went through a ramp-up phase last month. Hopefully, we should be able to deliver supplies, strong supplies, in this month. We have taken some very targeted action to sustain our volumes in hatches and sedans. As you know, these two segments are degrowing, but with the advantage of the multi-powertrain strategy that we have, and certain micro markets and customer segments, we are planning to see how we can sustain our volumes here. Back to you, Balaji.
Thank you, Shailesh. Overall, let me accelerate a bit here. Go to the next slide, please. Cash flows, only draw your attention, cash profits are significantly higher than the enhanced CapEx that we are running in, so, business is living well within its means. Next slide, please. Again, investment spending, we are blocking well. We are guided to an INR 8,000 crore spend this year, and we are, we are on track to, secure deliver on that number, and that just ensures that the overall product plans are all well funded. Next slide. On TMF, a minute on this. This is a business that had its challenges earlier, but we are coming through, and clear. The business is gradually getting its act together, after the challenges that they faced last year around October.
The concerted collection efforts are delivering results, and the efficiency is now 97% improving. GNPA, though, contained at 8.1%, but on an absolute number basis, what used to be almost INR 5,200 crore of GNPA overall, is now down to about INR 3,300 crore, which is a significant improving on the GNPA on the book that we are seeing. ROE is also starting to step up at 4.7%.... and the business diversification is well on track, with both on pre-owned vehicle financing, fleet operators financing, all that is expanding well. Capital adequacy and D/E ratios and liquidity, all of them comfortable. Next slide, please. Just finalizing on the outlook, we do expect, the lot of questions I see on demand, we continue to remain optimistic on demand despite those external challenges.
We acknowledge those challenges, but right now we are not seeing that impacting our demand for our products. And but we do expect to see some moderate inflation seep through. Our historical performance is likely to improve further on three reasons. One, seasonality will start working in our favor. Supplies are likely to improve, particularly in JLR, as well as in passenger vehicles. And in passenger vehicles, a slew of new launches coming through, and therefore quite confident on the de-deleveraging plans. I'll draw your attention to the improved indication on what we are likely to land the year at in JLR, likely to be more around 8% for this year, and we do believe we can sustain it there on. So overall, that is a focus.
On CV side, the focus is particularly on M&HCV market shares and continuing to sustain the improvements that we are seeing in M&HCV market shares is important. We will not change the pivot to growth, pivot to quality strategy that we have put in place and double the EBITDA for the entire year. Securing that and improving it is important. PV, of course, get back to market-leading growth. On EV, the focus will squarely be on expanding the market and driving up the EV penetration of our portfolio. So that's what we have to say, and we will now move into questions, of which there are already 17 lined up. Heavy questions coming through, so let me start from the question that came in first.
So I request if our teams could move to the most recent tab there, so that, we can go right all the way down to on that particular tab. First question from Dinesh, Motilal Oswal. Richard, this is coming your way. The guidance for EBIT margins increased to 8%. However, the free cash flow guidance has remained at GBP 2 billion. Should we not expect a higher FCF, given EBIT is going up?
Okay, thank you. So as we said, we closed the quarter with GBP 2.249 billion worth of debt, so we need to generate GBP 1.25 billion or more to get down to our target of sub-1 billion. That is GBP 500 million more than we generated in the first half of the year. We're on track to do so. One of the things that does put a little bit of difference between EBIT and cash flow is investment. Our investment in the first half of the year was GBP 775 million.
We do expect that to go up in the second half of the year, as we start paying for the preparation works in both our plants in Halewood and in Solihull, in the U.K., to start producing the next generation of BEV vehicles, and also in the facilities to produce the EDUs and the batteries. So, investment levels is a bit of a disconnect between the change in EBIT guidance and the change in cash guidance, but we still do have GBP 1.25 billion of debt to take down in the next six months, and we're on track to do so.
Okay. Another question on the same, from Dinesh as well. One is, the increasing salience of Range Rover, Range Rover Sport and Defender in your order book, but your ASPs have declined for third quarter in a row. Do you expect the ASPs to decline further as mix benefit starts receding? And, so let's answer that question, then we'll come to deferred tax, where there are a series of questions.
Okay, so in terms of average selling price, in Q1, it was GBP 74,000, in Q2, it was GBP 71,000. Within that, we're selling in Q2, we were a little bit constrained in terms of our Range Rover and Range Rover Sport production. Range Rover in particular, which is our highest transaction price vehicle, went from 18%-15% of our sales mix. We do not expect that to be permanent. As we bring the second body shop online for our MLA products in Solihull, and as we reduce the specific constraints that we've got in terms of Range Rover, we would expect that trend to go, not to continue.
Yeah. A question on tax rates, Richard. I'm happy to step in if needed, but let me pass it on to you. Is there further deferred tax asset pending to be recognized, and how should we look at the whole tax rate for second half and beyond?
Yes. So as Balaji, I think, mentioned, due to our historic position around losses, we do have an unrecognized deferred tax asset of about GBP 1 billion. We have gone through four quarters of profitability, so we are looking at that. We have no conclusion as to when that could be brought back onto the balance sheet. The fact that we've got such a high unrecognized DTA does add both level and volatility to our effective tax rate. So we would like to get that resolved at some stage.
Okay. And therefore, on long-term basis, Richard, how should we plan the tax rate when we model the value of the company?
Typically, I think, it would be reasonable to expect somewhere between 25% and 29%.
Thank you. Coming to India, Girish, this one is your India MHCV series. Pricing discipline has seen some dilution in the last couple of months. How do you see this evolving? And what's ailing the LCV industry, how do you see this segment evolve over the next 12 months? And, then as Ace EV, what's your order book size? How are the trends in new order intake?
Okay, so I think from Tata Motors, we have not seen any drop in the pricing discipline. In fact, we continue, with, with the discipline that we introduced by during last September in a very steadfast manner. And, you know, we had seen some dip in the month of May, but which I spoke about in the Q1 earnings call. After that, we have been consistently, growing the market operating prices. Coming to light commercial vehicles, what is ailing, I think is the industry has remained flat, and in my view, there are two things. First is, I think in terms of percentage increase over the base price, this segment has seen, significant increase when we moved from BS3 to BS4, then BS4 to BS6 Phase I, and then BS6 Phase I to Phase II.
As a result, I think the ticket size has gone up, in comparatively, I think, the freight rates, have not followed to that extent. And the second thing I would say is, I think the financing environment, I think post-COVID, all the financials have been, a bit wary, if I may say so, and, cautious, and therefore, all this put together is, is keeping this, this industry flat. But I must say, as a result of this, I think the quality of books of all the financials has been consistently improving, at least on our counter. But we do believe in the growth potential of this segment, and I think once, once the economics for the operators balance out, once again, I think the industry will start growing.
Coming to Ace EV, I think, you know, your question was on PLI. Yes. As I mentioned, we have received the PLI certificate just two days back for the Ace EV. Regarding the order book, so if you recollect, during the launch, we had signed up with five customers for gradual deployment of vehicles. Out of those five customers, I think one customer is, you know, out of operation as of now, but we continue to deploy vehicles in rest of the four customers month over month. But in addition to that, I'm very pleased to tell you that we are also seeing good traction for the Ace EV in some of the retail segments.
You know, and, you know, at some point of time later, I can also speak about this in detail, but we see good traction happening there. Of course, range anxiety, charging infrastructure, you know, financing environment are some of the issues which remain in the minds of the customers, which we are tackling by increasing the financing period, right? By increasing the warranty on these vehicles. We continue to improve the charging infrastructure, and I think gradually we see retails of Ace EV growing month-over-month. We also are coming up with quite a few variants on Ace EV to address multiple requirements. Balaji?
Thanks, Girish. A comment on PLIs. We have got the certificates, but obviously, there's a lot of scrutiny from the authorities in terms of the CapEx spends, what contributes as CapEx that needs to be considered. So right now, we haven't got the PLI monies yet. I think the internal expectation, Q4 is when it should probably play come through. Let's wait and see. We are, of course, in intense conversations with the government on that. Okay, let me go to the. This is coming from Raghu, Nomura Research. For JLR, how do you expect the order book rundown, the pace of 5,000 per month or that we indicated earlier, does that continue? Any other comment on that? Adrian, would you want to take that?
Yeah, let me take that, Balaji. Look, we've consistently run down the order book by about 5,000 a month, not only in our quarter two, but actually for the last 9 months. We are building more cars in the second half of the year. Richard covered that. We have more production days, so I think it's reasonable to assume that the order book will fall a little bit more sharply over the next 6 months. Our intention is to get it back to pre-pandemic levels, which we've referenced before, around 110,000 units, and our expectation is that will happen somewhere between the end of this fiscal year and the start of next. So I expect a marginal acceleration, because we're building more cars and therefore fulfilling more of the existing orders.
From an input cost side, given the higher wage hikes that we are seeing in suppliers like AI S, do you expect input procurement costs to go up?
Okay, I'll take that one. So look, we are seeing some areas where there is still inflation, be that wage inflation or other cost inflation. But as I referenced in the charts, actually, certainly on a year-by-year basis, there's considerable elements that are improving. We are spending vastly less on broker buys of chips than we were beforehand, and there are many other elements in relation to commodity costs, and even utility costs that are going down. So, no, I don't think that is likely to be the case. In fact, I think the dynamic that you're gonna see over the coming time is that we will have to spend marginally more in terms of VME and FME, in terms of order generation, but we will offset those costs by reductions versus last year's levels in our material cost and operational costs.
Thanks, Richard. I think, Shailesh, sorry, Girish, let me put this to you. What would be the outlook for M&HCV PV growth for FY 2025? It's coming to both of you. Growth, outlook for next year.
So, you know, let me take like this, M&HCV, I think YOY, we will see continued growth in Q3, could be almost double-digit. I think Q4 could be flattish or little growth, because Q4 of last year was pretty good. I think talking about FY 2025, in my view, it is too early to speak about it, because we have a key monitorable, which is the general elections happening in Q1 of next year. To talk about Q1 or Q2 demand for next year of M&HCV, we'll have to wait at least for one quarter to see how the order book of the fleet owners and the infrastructure builders is panning out, and we will come to know something about that when we meet next quarter.
Thanks. PV?
So for PV, you know, again, as Girish also mentioned, too early to really comment on that. We need to see where we end this year, which is looking strong, touching, you know, 4 million or so. The base is very high. We need to understand that the last financial year, the growth was nearly 25%, and that is very difficult to sustain. Typically, the PV industry in a mid- to long-term grows by a CAGR of 6%-7%, so I would still imagine that the demand would remain strong, but would be still a single digit in FY 2025. But I must say that it is still very speculative.
These are the numbers that we see, you know, with the projections that we get from various agencies, but I think, let's see, you know, where the year ends, is what I would say.
Thanks, Shailesh. A question on the royalty for this. I think I would just say that it is, these are reasonable royalties and obviously at an arm's length basis, so that's how we would respond to that. PV, EV, the chargers, 7,800 chargers that we have put out there, how many of them would be fast chargers? What are the customer behavior of using them or charging at home?
Yeah, I think, you know, most of these. You know, 7,800 chargers, especially I'm saying, the fast chargers, these are on highways. And this would be, I would say, my, if my guess would be right, it is about 4,000-4,500 is CCS2 chargers, which are either 25 kW or 50 kW chargers. As far as the charging behavior is concerned, we clearly see through our telematics data that, more than 90% of the customers are charging their car at home. So the use of public chargers is less. It is only being used if they are on the highway.
But primarily, the mode of charging is the home chargers, which is either, you know, a dedicated charger in the parking slot or residential welfare association common chargers, which are provided.
Next question coming from Hitesh Goyal. I think, Richard, this is coming your way. How are you seeing the Jaguar portfolio? Will you run down Jaguar in, calendar year 2024, second half, before Jaguar electric is launched? And does this mean major savings on JLR EBITDA? How are you seeing the Jaguar transition?
So look, Jaguar is still performing strongly. We sold nearly 25,000 Jaguars in the first half of the year. Yes, we will wind the production of the current cars down as we move to the new fully electric Jaguar, which as you know, we're saying is a copy of nothing. It is nothing like the existing set of Jaguar cars. So we don't really want those to overlap. We haven't been specific as to exactly when we're going to end each vehicle, because some of them are built in Castle Bromwich, some of them are built in Solihull, some of them are built in Austria. So it will vary by plant, but it is reasonably safe to assume that we will run those down before we launch the entirely new, all-electric copy of nothing Jaguar.
In terms of the impact that that will have on our EBITDA, yes, we're anticipating that the new Jaguar will be a really profitable business. So, it will be part of our growth plan of EBITDA and EBIT as we go forward, as we move from the old Jaguar to the new.
Yeah. Thanks, Richard. Next question, probably the one of the most eagerly awaited question, is Shailesh, coming your way. Can you talk about... This from Gunjan, Bank of America. Can you talk about the EV outlook in India? There's been some pause in momentum, so how will you... Can you talk about the pace of adoption that we see now, and what are the key drivers for stepping it up?
Yeah, Balaji, you know, this is a question which, in the last one month, I would have been asked by multiple people. I completely understand where this is coming from, you know, some of the negative articles which have come on this. But, you know, if you really see the facts, in H1, we have seen a growth of 107% in EVs. For us, it has been about 76%, so it is really very strong, I would say. There has been a quarter-on-quarter decline and impact, primarily because, one, if you remember, there were several launches which happened in the EV industry, in the late quarter four of last financial year, quarter one, of this financial year.
You know that whenever there is a launch, there is a spike in the demand, and there is a filling of the channel with, you know, supplies for those new models, and then you see it stabilizing at lower levels. That is the phenomenon that you are seeing in quarter two. That's number one. Number two-
Remember that Nexon EV has been the, one of the highest selling models in the EV industry. And, I covered in the presentation, Balaji also spoke about that we had to ramp down the volumes of Nexon EV because of the transition to the new model, and therefore it impacted in the quarter two. The third impact I also covered in the presentation is that Telangana, which is nearly 10%-15% of the EV industry, the road tax waiver was taken away. It is not because it has been taken away, the demand came down, but in anticipation that it will be reverted, this still remains down. I would say these were the three big factors why you have seen quarter-over-quarter, but these are not structural reasons, right?
Now, coming to mid to long term, what will be the EV outlook, where the drivers of growth are going to come from? See, the biggest opportunity I see is that 75% of the sales of EVs today is coming from only 25 cities. So all the manufacturers, including us, being the market leader, are yet to expand into the larger part of the country, where there is a huge demand which is lying there. Second, I would say that, we are already seeing announcement of multiple EVs by different players. And remember that whenever there's a new price point or a new body, body style that you offer in the market, there is all of a sudden jump. And let me elaborate what I'm saying. Just take Tiago EV.
Before Tiago EV got launched, every quarter, the industry used to sell about 14,000-15,000. After Tiago EV got launched, it moved up to 25,000, because it was a new price point that we brought into the market. In the coming quarters and years, you are going to see you know, EVs covering the entire spectrum of price range, which is going to really increase the volumes significantly, I would say. That's the second big driver. And the third one is the charging infra. We all know that the biggest impediment to the growth of EV has been the charging infra, and the very fact that 93% of the people are charging at home also signifies that people are right now comfortable driving in the cities.
There's a drastic increase in public charging, which we are anticipating, especially on the highways, in the next two years or so. This will unleash, you know, the mainstream customers, because today it is early adopter or early majority, which is buying. A mainstream buyer will only buy when they get the comfort on the highways. And why I'm saying that it is going to drastically increase, because, see, number one would be the oil marketing companies. I'm not even talking about Tata Power, which also has an aggressive plan, and there are certain CPOs also who are going very aggressive. But oil marketing companies have INR 800 crore of subsidy provided by the government to put 22,000 chargers on the highways by 2024, and this is going to really significantly provide us tailwind to tap the mainstream buyers.
I think, you know, mid to long term, and in the coming quarters, you will see EV growing very strong.
Thanks, Shailesh. PLI, we have already answered about the status of PLI. Maybe another question coming your way, and Adrian, feel free to chip in, if anything Shailesh missed. A whole significance of this platform sharing with JLR, on the EMA side for the Avinya range of products.
I think, you know, this is a very significant development. You are already aware that we had showcased Avinya in Auto Expo also, and prior to that, one year back, we had unveiled it for the first time. This is the first time that we will be entering into the premium eSUV segment. And we evaluated multiple platforms, including, you know, doing a ground-up skateboard ourselves.
But when we got the opportunity to evaluate EMA, we thought that while our positioning is going to be different than JLR positioning, but this unleashes a big opportunity for us to access a state-of-the-art features, the new age features, which we'll be requiring in the coming years, which comes from the electrical and electronic architecture, and a very mature platform which has been developed by JLR, which will really improve the reliability, predictability, future readiness of this platform. So this is a big gain to us to position ourselves on a very strong, strong pedigree of JLR EMA platform. So that's number one. Number two is that the two companies have an opportunity to really derive the synergies on the cost side. Certain parts, you know, we will be unique.
We'll be localizing ourselves, so that will give us the cost advantage, but that also gives the opportunity to JLR to also tap some of those cost benefits. But at the same time, when it comes to the high-tech components, I think JLR negotiating power with the supplier also benefits us. So it's a benefit on both the sides, so cost becomes a big gain. And most importantly, given the maturity of the platform, it also helps us reduce the time. So I... We see multiple benefits of working together. And for us particularly, I think we will bring a very premium electric SUV, which will be on a very strong pedigree of JLR platform.
Adrian, anything to add from your side on this?
Agree with all of those three things, and I think the only thing I'd like to add is, You know, we've talked for at least four years about the increasing collaboration between JLR and the broader Tata Group. And I think with the announcements in July around Agratas and now this announcement, hopefully everybody listening is starting to understand the power of that relationship, which will continue going forward, and I'm sure grow beyond the levels we've announced already. So I'm delighted with the progress in the last six to 12 months that we've made as a group.
Thank you. Let's another flavor of the question, maybe, Richard, this is coming your way. Can you refresh any view to the 10% EBIT margin that you've given for FY 2026, given that you have updated the guidance of the current year to 8%?
No, there's no change in our guidance that we will get to double-digit margins FY 2026.
Thanks. Yeah. Okay, next question. I think, there are two or three flavors of the question, Girish, coming your way. The MNCV market share gain that you are currently seeing-
Mm.
Can you give more color to it? How is this like... Where is this coming from? Why do you think you're winning?
Mm.
This is likely to sustain.
Okay. So I think, in M&HCV, and for that matter, I would say the entire truck segment, which I'm including ICEs also, our focus has been to improve the value proposition consistently, right? Because finally, whatever we are selling has to make sense for the customer, right? I mean, while we are looking at it as more of discount reduction, OEM reduction, I think it is more about improving the value being delivered to the customers. So in the value delivered to the customer, let me talk about the product. I think, you know, our position and our strategy, on consistently improving the product at every emission compliance or regulation, regulatory gate, has been vindicated. So we improved the TCO significantly in BS6 Phase I.
We did that again in BS6 Phase II, and I think in Q1, as the products got established and with a lot of back-to-back trials, I think the TCO improvement got established, which therefore led to good value improvement for the customer. In addition to that, I think we've also given higher performance or higher power-to-weight ratio, which also I spoke about in the last quarter. I think that is also leading to very good traction, especially in the tipper segment. In addition to that, I think over the years, we have improved our service offerings significantly. So we have a very attractive annual maintenance contract, and I think in the BS6 electronic era, the annual maintenance contract is also making significant difference, along with the key account engagement that we have put in place.
Finally, I think, I must add that Fleet Edge now is also helping the customers to actually accrue value in real-life usage of the vehicles, and this is clearly becoming a differentiator in the marketplace, especially in the cargo segment and in a different manner in the tipper segment. I think all these put together, therefore, it's a strong value proposition for the customers. You also asked about what we will do for the future. I think we will stay committed to this with every year, model year, as we call in trucks, and as also with every regulatory change, I think we will continue to improve the value proposition for the customer.
Thanks, Girish. Sorry, this question came from the... M&HCV question came from Abhinav, and I remember, Kapil also asked this question earlier. Another question from Abhinav on the PV festive sales, how do you see it performing? How is market demand?
Yeah. So, you know, when I talk about Navratri, especially, you know, even the last Navratri was very strong for us. We already had a very high base, but very happy to share that we saw nearly 30% growth in the last, how to say, 15 days or so, which has passed since the start of Navratri, in terms of registration, and 16% growth in terms of delivery. So it has been a very strong festive period for us on the back of new launches, success of CNG.
Yeah. Thanks. Next question from Chandramouli, Goldman Sachs. Some of these questions have already been answered. I'll just pick up the ones that are not yet answered. Again, Shailesh, to your side, what are the initial trends in the new Nexon versus the old Nexon? How are orders picking up?
This for the EV part?
Both. Maybe with answering both, actually.
So I think very strong, very strong response to Nexon. As I said, that 3-4 months of waiting period, depending on the variant. But, as far as EVs is also concerned, these are like 2-3 times increase in the booking rates, as compared to the normal times. We will have to then see in the next 1 or 2 months how this volume stabilizes, but excellent response to both the products.
Great. Again, staying with you, the EV margins, what are the key contributors for the quarter-on-quarter improvement in the margins?
Yeah, I think there are four, at least I would say four, factors underlying that. Number one is the cell cost reduction, which we have already seen above 15%-20%, and we are going to see further reduction of significant amount, I would say, in the quarter three also, and going forward, we are also optimistic. Then we have also the non-cell cost reduction, which is, you know, pack minus cell items... and a lot of these items were imported, but as we have been working on the PLI, there's a lot of localization action which has happened, which is another source of cost reduction that we have seen.
The third is also the use of new generation and compact aggregates, you know, when we launched, for example, when Nexon EV was launched, we shifted to the new generation, power electronics, as well as some of the aggregates, which really helped us in not only improving the performance efficiency, but also cost. And the last one would be, there's a massive cost reduction program, which is also going into the ICE side, so the donor vehicle cost reduction actions on that side has also benefited. So these would be the four factors.
Thank you. I think question, Girish, coming your way. Price hikes that you have announced in October, can you give us a sense of what magnitude it is? And how do you see the raw material environment? Maybe you can combine the two.
Yeah, yes, Balaji. So see, I think, you know, we should also look at it, look at this in the context, right? And as I mentioned some time back, since last September, we had not taken any price increase, right? Which is the list price increase. There was no price increase whatsoever for more than 12 months, right? And this is despite the inflationary environment that one saw on the commodities, and especially steel and precious metals, right? So we... I mean, the entire journey during these 12 months was about realization improvement. Now, in the month of October, after one year, we have taken a list price increase, and we will pass through this price increase gradually during this quarter, and we are already on track for that.
In terms of commodity environment, as I spoke, I think we are looking at some headwind on the steel, right? We are keeping a close watch on that. There could be some impact on precious metals, but that is more for petrol engine vehicles, so the impact on CV will be lesser.
Thanks, Girish. Richard, Adrian, this is coming your way. Again, a very thematic question coming in terms of slowdown in global markets. Couple of course ask them, do you agree that it will slow down? But let me leave it to you to answer that. Are there any visible signs? And due to this and also the EV penetration slowdown, many OEMs are pushing out their launches, what is your perspective? And in order to turbocharge demand in this slowing down environment, how much of VME, FME raise can happen? How will you plan to manage this entire moving feast?
Yeah. So there is, there is a slowdown, which we see in some markets. I shouldn't say too much about other OEMs, because obviously I'm not close to their particular circumstances. But with the levels of, of discounting that are happening, it generally only happens when supply is significantly, over levels of natural demand. So I suspect that's, that's one of the causals behind much of that discounting. Interest rates clearly are very high. A lot of the, incentive deals are underpinning those interest rates, 8% in the U.S., which a lot of the OEMs are, subventing, and we're not, right? So I think the big point here is there's a huge differentiation between our positioning in the marketplace, with our VME in the 1% plus level, compared to others.
you know, the big reason for that still, of course, is back to the earlier discussion. We have a huge amount of pent-up demand, which we're slowly, slowly working through, and a huge capability to increase incentives and be significantly lower than in the marketplace going forward in FY20 25, which we will look to do as we close out the balance of this year. So I think we're in a really healthy place, a really good place, in a very, very difficult market, but we're very wary about the difficulties in the marketplace as well. So our intention is to stay in front of the problem here.
Thank you, Adrian. The next question comes from Nishit Jalan, on the PE business. A lot of those questions have been answered. Maybe one specific one I would say, has there been any production constraint as dispatches appear to be lower than the last two months? And when do we start the production in the, Sanand plant, and when should we expect Curvv and Sierra?
So as far as last two months is concerned, I think last month we were the highest ever in terms of offtake, so that was the highest production month for us. But still, we lost opportunity because it was the first month of ramp-up of Harrier Safari, so we could not fully produce what we would have intended to. A month prior to that, again, you know, there it was also a month of significant ramp-down of Harrier Safari and some of the models in, say, compact sedan and hatches. So that's been the case, but I think exit number is more important, which has been the highest ever. The second question was, Balaji, on Curvv, right?
Yeah.
So Curvv and Sierra. So Curvv and Sierra is planned to be launched in 2024 and 2025 respectively. so that's on that. And as far as Sanand is concerned, that was the third question. So that's also slated for in the first half of 2024.
Thanks, Girish. Question on Freight Tiger, this is from Pramod Amte, InCred. What, what are the transaction valuation, and the burn rate, and the funding needed for the next three years, two, three years?
See the way the transaction has been structured, if you recollect, we had paid about INR 150 crore for a 26-point-some% stake. That works, values the business at roughly about INR 4,420 crore, so that's the transaction valuation.
And we also know over the next 2-3 years, whatever the cash burn there, we are estimating roughly about INR 100 crore will burn in that, and therefore, that is what we are, we are ready with the funding for that as well. So that business is well funded and ready to meet its objectives. And we obviously will want to work closely between Freight Tiger and Fleet Edge to ensure we drive maximum synergies. And those synergistic business cases and how that can in turn manage this burn rate and step up growth rates, is something that we will be working with them in the coming days.
Next question from Kapil Singh, Indian PV. Some of your competition has seen sharp clearance of order books. How is it in your case, for the various ICE, EVs and CNGs?
So you know, it was very much expected because the order book was being created prior to the festive season, and festive season has released most of them for competition and in general, for the industry, I would say. In our portfolio, I would say for certain models, the regular models, of course, we have also seen the depletion as of the order book in the festive period, because it was the phase of delivery, and we are working on, you know, creating fresh orders. But it has been more than offset, I would say, with the new launches that we have, we had in the last two months, Harrier, Safari, Nexon, so it's pretty balanced, I would say, in that.
Therefore, how do you see the PV volume run rates in the second half?
Second half, as Balaji, you also mentioned in your presentation, that it should be strong on the back of launches that we had and which we will have in the coming quarters.
Yeah. Auto PLI, this coming again, auto PLI, we are, like as I said earlier, Q4 is when we are expecting to see the cash starting to come through, but let's wait for that, and then we should be there. But everybody around, all stakeholders committed to make it happen, so let's wait for that. Ashish Jain, Macquarie, next one. Richard, this is coming your way. When do we see the JLR working capital cycle reverse, given the GBP 1.4 billion build that we saw in FY 2022-23?
So we will see some of that reverse during the second half of this year. Our working capital cycle tends to improve as our volumes improve. So, some of that will reverse through the next six months, and it's part of our delivery of our GBP 1.25 billion of operating cash.
Yeah. Thanks. Next one coming from Pramod, UBS. Battery plant. Can you please share the status of the battery plants? As is, in July, we announced the UK tie-up for setting up a battery plant there, and India is also on schedule at this point in time on the internal plans. Obviously, you should expect to hear more on these plans in the coming days, so we'll wait for the news for the same, please. India, same from Pramod. India EV arm, any update on fundraising? Currently, there are no plans for fundraise on the EV arm, and therefore, we are. And how are we placed on CapEx funding for this business? Absolutely secured.
The 7,500 that came through from TPG secures 50% of the INR 2.2 billion funding, PLI is the other one. So between the two, we are well funded. Just give me a minute, please. I think Safari and Harrier you already answered, so let me leave that out. Can you detail out the PLI benefit with respect to CapEx? I think a lot of questions on trying to understand PLI benefit. Shailesh, you want to give it a try first, and I go next?
I think you have covered it, Balaji, but-
No, it's actually, what is this PLI benefit all about?
Okay, let me, let me, let me start. You can chip in, yeah. There are three aspects to the PLI that is there. Number one, there is a threshold CapEx, is about INR 120 crore, which we comfortably meet, and then there is a target CapEx that need to be spent, which is about INR 2,000 crore. Anything INR 2,000 crore spent over the INR 120 crore is treated as eligibility for a PLI benefit, number one. Number two, there has to be a 50%,
Mm-hmm
Localization that needs to happen other than batteries. So that, that is what the ARAI Certification is all about, going through the entire space there. And this CapEx has to be eligible CapEx on specific areas. It's not like any and all CapEx there. Then once you are eligible for this, you get a benefit anywhere from 13%-18% of the EV sales that you do, which you have already... the legal entities are already pre-cleared with the authorities. So this is the construct of the PV setup. Right now, we've got the ARAI Certification confirming 50% compliance, 50% localization for Tiago, Tigor and Ace EV. And we will obviously be... The reason we did not put Nexon-
Not Tigor.
Sorry, Tiago and Ace EV. And the reason we did not put the Nexon, well, the new Nexon has just been launched, so therefore we would rather take the... It's quite an elaborate process of getting it right. So we will now be putting up Nexon for approval, then the respective new brands will also come onto it.
Buses are also in the pipeline.
Buses are also in the pipeline.
Are mostly meeting the DVA requirement.
Yeah.
But it's about to go through the process that-
The process. So we are confident of getting the DVA requirement. And once this is there, then obviously they scrutinize you for understanding, did you meet all the eligible CapEx? And that tick off is currently underway. Once that is done, then you are eligible for PLI. Your EV sales has to be authorized by the statutory auditor of yours, certification given to IFCI. IFCI is the one that approves these numbers, and then the Ministry of Heavy Industry makes the payment on that. This is the process. Obviously, I may have missed a few steps in this, but by and large, this is what-
One thing, if there are any supplier claims-
Of course.
Then that is offset.
Any supplier claims on that will be offset against it. So this is the broad schema, Hitesh. Two, two, two, what else? Pramod, the JLR first half margin is in the full year guidance conservative. We've already talked about, so let me skip that. I think we are now coming to an end of all the questions, right? Just give us a minute, please, in case there's anything we are missing at all. Sanand Plant, Kapil Singh. Sanand Plant, can this cause a dip in PV business margin? What is the optimum volume at which it will not be margin dilutive, and by which when you can already reach it? These costs are already in my P&L, because the factory has been bought over in early January, and therefore, this cost is already in our P&L.
Therefore, nothing to talk about there. Our volumes are anyway picking up. If you recollect, we sold 48,000 last month. Our max capacities will stretch up to 55. So we are already at a absolutely at a limit in terms of our CapEx and, sorry, in terms of our capacities, and this is only going to add as volumes, as margin, as volumes pick up. I think with this... Now, there's Gautam from BNK Securities: "Do you feel the biggest impediment to EV growth is absence of second-hand EV market?" Very interesting question. You wanna pick that up?
Yeah, I think, you know, it is an important aspect, but I would not say that this is the biggest impediment. There are other barriers and roadblocks to adoption, as far as mainstream buyers are concerned. I talked about it, but this is an important aspect. Frankly, when we talk about the early adopters, they really don't worry too much about this. But also, you know that we launched Nexon EV, which is the Nexon EV Prime, with the low range in January 2020. So still, a lot of this is not in supply. So once it comes in supply, then we'll be able to assess the market for this.
There will be market, because if there is a market for new car, there are a lot of people who are considering EVs, who would like to buy a car, car in a good condition, at a much lower price, availing the benefits of operating costs, lower maintenance cost, and so on. We intend to help the customers when they think of selling off their car and pushing in the used car market by transferring the warranty also benefit to the next buyer, so that, that constraint is not there. But I think still, you know, the used car is not in the inventory, given that it's hardly three years since we launched the car.
Yeah. I think with that, we are done with the questions. Thank you for the searching questions, really, we enjoyed answering those questions, and more than happy to take any further questions that you may have offline. Do reach out to the investor relations team, and we'll be happy to reach out to you. Once again, thanks for taking the time to attend the session and look forward to speaking to you in the coming days. Thanks, bye. And thanks, Team JLR, and thanks guys here in the room as well.
Thank you.
Thank you.