Thank you, gentlemen. Good day and welcome to Deepak Fertilisers and Petrochemicals Corporation Limited Q4 FY 2025 earnings conference call, hosted by Philip Capital India Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Harmesh Desai. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Avirath. Good evening and welcome to the fourth quarter and full year FY 2025 earnings call of Deepak Fertilisers and Petrochemicals, hosted by Philip Capital. From the management, we have Mr. Sailesh Mehta, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Subhash Anand, President and Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Suparas Jain, Executive Vice President, Corporate Finance, and Mr. Debasish Kedia, Senior General Manager, Corporate Finance. I would like to thank the management for giving us the opportunity to host this call. We will begin the call with opening remarks from Mr. Sailesh Mehta, followed by Mr. Subhash Anand for an update on financial performance, post which we will have a Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Is my voice clear?
It's clear, sir. Yeah.
Okay. Thank you. A very warm welcome to all of you for the Q4 and 12-month FY 2025 earnings call. I do hope all of you have had a chance to review the presentations. Just from my side, at the outset, in terms of the headlines, I am indeed happy to share that Q4 top-line grew by 28%, and PAT, the bottom line, grew by 21%. For the full year, the top-line grew by 18%, and we crossed INR 10,000 crores. The headline there is that PAT, bottom line, grew by 102%. It is almost double. Based on these good results and also balancing it out with the CapEx plan, though the thought was to look at even higher dividends, the board in a conservative manner has recommended 100% dividends.
Now, just to share some insights in terms of when I look at the year as a whole, to look at the undercurrents and to try and share with you in terms of what we feel is panning out, what has worked. Somewhere, I see very clearly that strategy and execution coming together now and getting validated, revalidated in the P&L and the financial outcomes that we are seeing. Number one that we see is that our enhanced business focus, aligned to the India growth story, is certainly continuing to be a very positive tailwind for all the businesses that we are looking at, in the sense that for the fueling of the India growth story, the focus on coal for power, limestone cement for the real estate sector, infrastructure, all those are going to be continuing to be critical.
That is where our mining chemicals, technical ammonium nitrate, continues to be beautifully aligned. Similarly, as the mid-income group grows, the move from basic rice, wheat, bajra, to horticulture fruits, vegetables is something that we are seeing as a continuing trend, and which is where our CNB business, fertilizer business, is very well aligned. Similarly, our industrial chemicals business is riding on the alignment with China Plus One specialty chemicals and the pharma sector. One dimension that we see is that this alignment with the India growth story not only is giving us continued positive traction on the demand perspective side, but is also somewhere insulating us from the global volatility, which has somewhere emerged with all these tariff dimensions that are emerging.
The second and the more critical aspect that we are seeing is that our dedicated drive to move from commodity to specialty is continuing to gain ground and give us very positive traction. With the push that we have, overall, we are seeing that almost 22% of our revenues are now emerging out of this move into the specialty space. The key contributor to the transformation from commodity to specialty is certainly the crop nutrition business, the fertilizer business, where virtually now every product that we sell has somewhere a specialty offering. It is not just the same as what anyone else in the industry is offering.
All of our NPK either is sold as NPK with a growth promoter coating, which is giving a much higher boost to the nutrient use efficiency, or in a major way, which is what has transpired in this last year, where we have moved from commodity NPK to crop-specific NPK along with micronutrients and growth promoters. By now, we have enhanced the number of grades. We are catering to many more crops than what we were in the previous year. This aspect of it is somewhere very, very deeply making an impact in terms of not just the yield, but also somewhere the quality dimensions of the agri-produce, which is where we are now having a very positive traction in terms of repeat customers and a very strong attraction also from the channel.
Uniquely, we have seen that now we have clocked up not just in terms of the sales, which is by way of invoices, but also by way of liquidation, which would mean that the farmers have actually bought the fertilizers. That speaks very strongly about the value proposition that they are seeing in terms of the Croptek or the crop-specific fertilizers. If I look at just the crop nutrition business, besides the crop-specific fertilizers, we are also into Bensulf, which is another specialty fertilizer. We are also into the water-soluble fertilizers, which are also specialty fertilizers. All put together, we are seeing that there is a lot of value that we could bring to the table by looking at not just commodity product orientation, but somewhere bringing in a lot of weightage to what could impact the farmers and the yields and so also their income levels.
Similarly, the journey continues from commodity to specialty, even in our technical ammonium nitrate mining chemical business, and whereas you would be aware that our range of product itself caters to all possible segments in the mining sector, whether it is ammonium nitrate melt or the high-dense product or the porous prills, the global best porous prills, right up to the hospital segment is what we are catering to. Some of these segment-by-segment catering to the needs of that particular segment is somewhere now making more and more sense that that is the way to go, and that is what is bringing the strength. Similarly, in the acids, again, every segment, right from 58% acid, 60% acid, 72% acid, right up to 98% acid, is something that we are catering to and going up to even specialized acid with additives for the steel grid, steel companies that are there.
Finally, even in case of IPA, that our move towards moving away from commodity IPA to pharma-grade IPA is something that is bearing good fruits. Those two aspects are aspects which I feel at the undercurrent level have given a lot of confidence and is giving us a very positive feeling in terms of sustainability of these good results. Going forward, as we move more and more towards segmenting the market and catering to each segment, and as we move more and more from pure commodity product offering to a holistic solution offering, we are seeing that not only there will be, I would say, additions to the contribution margin, but we are on our way to creating valuable brands in the spaces that we are performing, in the spaces that we are having our business focus.
Building upon the same, I would say, strength, we have also taken up projects of enhancing capacities on nitric acid at Dahej and on our technical ammonium nitrate at Gopalpur. Somewhere, those aspects are also very strongly built on both these dimensions. Both are projects that are beautifully aligned to the India growth story. Both the projects draw strength from our 40 years of knowledge and experience of that sector. That aspect of it is going to ensure that in the least gestation period, it should begin its contribution to the bottom line. Both of them, we are looking at somewhere H2 of FY 2026 to bring it into our financial fold. I'm also happy to share that with the good cash flows that were there, we were in a position to further reduce the net debt by around INR 120 crore.
The net-to-EBITDA ratio has improved to a healthy 1.72 versus 2.66, which was in the previous year. We also brought in and infused INR 800 crore in our subsidiary Deepak Mining Solutions, which is also available for the group, by way of CCD, Compulsory Convertible Debentures. That is also going to deleverage and make the balance sheet even more healthy as we go forward. As we look at this aspect, we were also from a project perspective, seeing that some, I would say, competition could be emerging. When we looked at ourselves, we saw unique USPs against competition that we will be bringing to the table. Uniquely, our facilities will be now on both East Coast and West Coast, and that will provide a freight advantage to us as we serve our customers.
With having multiple facilities in terms of our technical ammonium nitrate and our nitric acids, we will be singularly placed to provide 100% assured supplies to our customers, which others may not be able to. With the 40 years of knowledge and experience in the market, uniquely, we will be bringing in a huge supply chain advantage of warehouses, dealers, and others to be able to cater to these customers. The 40 years of knowledge and experience will be uniquely standing on our side, whether it is in terms of raw material availability, operations, safety, health environment, logistics, so on and so forth. The biggest advantage that we see in ourselves is now an integrated advantage emerging out of a long-term tied-up LNG contract, then from LNG ammonia, from ammonia, the multiple nitric acid plants that are there, and then reaching up to the downstream.
This kind of complete value chain is something which will be very, very unique to the Deepak Fertilisers Group. Finally, when we move right up to the requirements of the end consumer, whether it is the farmer or the mine, this is something where this kind of strength, right from LNG to the final finish, impactful product plus solutions is something that in the next two to three years will be uniquely available from Deepak Fertilisers and its subsidiaries, unlike anyone else. Having said that, there is a perplexement that does remain in my mind.
Recently, when we did the CCD negotiations on the basis of just the mining business, DMSL, we were in a position to garner the funding at 12x EBITDA, which puts the valuation of just the mining business to INR 13,000 odd crores, whereas in totality, Deepak Fertilisers is somewhere getting valued at INR 17,000 odd or INR 18,000 odd.
The perplexement has been that how is it that the sum of the parts, meaning the totality of the three businesses which are doing so well, somewhere is not getting valued as much as one part is getting valued, and which is where I seek a better understanding with your help to be able to somewhere get across to the various investor community in terms of the real strength that we bring in terms of our 40 years of knowledge base, the real strength that is going to emerge in terms of the strategy at play, whether it is in terms of the alignment with the India growth story, whether it is in terms of the long-term LNG contract that we have, and the value that we will be bringing right from gas to ammonia to the downstream, or the huge work and now well-accepted work that we are doing from commodity to specialty, and finally, also helping to bring far more clarity in terms of each business having unwound and now restructured into each business into a separate corporate entity to bring a much more clearer perspective and vision.
Some of these aspects, I look forward to each one of you to not only absorb, but to help communicate so that there is a better understanding of our businesses. With that thought, I hand you over to Subhash, who will take you through the details of the Q4 and 12 month. Subhash?
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mehta. Good evening, everyone. It's a pleasure to welcome you all to Deepak Fertilisers and Petrochemicals Corporation Limited earning call for the fourth quarter and full year financial, year-ended 31 March 2025. We are pleased to report yet another quarter and year of strong performance marked by resilient operations, robust financials, and continued progress on our strategic transformation journey. Let me start with financials highlight. Revenue for quarter four, operating revenue today, INR 2,667 crore, a strong 28% increase YoY, primarily led by our CNB business, which grew by 86%.
The full year FY 2025, we reported INR 10,274 crores in revenue. That's an 18% growth over FY 2024. Notably, our specialty product portfolio now contributes 22% of our total revenue, led by our crop-specific innovations and our premium LDAN product. On the EBITDA front, Q4 EBITDA came in at INR 480 crores, up 10% YoY , while the margin for the quarter stood at 18%, slightly lower due to change in business mix. Individually, if we look at the three businesses separately, both TAN and CNB segments individually saw margin expansion. Since the growth of this quarter was primarily led by the fertilizer business, that mix change has resulted in this contraction toward the lower margin that we are able to see at the consolidated level. Individually, each business is showing an expanded margin and contributing heavily to the bottom line.
For the full year, EBITDA grew remarkably, 50% up to INR 1,925 crore, with a margin improvement of 390 basis points to 19%. Coming to net profit, our Q4 net profit increased 21% YoY to INR 278 crore. FY 2025, we delivered INR 945 crore in net profit, doubling YoY . Reflecting strong margin execution and cost discipline, the net profit margin improved by 381 basis points to 9%. I would like to highlight that Q4 includes one-time effort tax creation of INR 37 crore, linked to DMSL demerger. Excluding this, the group effective tax rate would be approximately 24.7% for the quarter, compared to reported 13.2%. Coming to balance sheet and cash flow, as Mr. Mehta pointed out, we have generated INR 1,400 crore free operating cash flow supported by robust EBITDA and improved working capital efficiency. Working capital as a percentage of revenue declined from 17% to 12%.
Despite capital expenditure or CapEx of around INR 1,100 crore in FY 2025, net debt was reduced to INR 3,305 crore from INR 3,426 crore a year ago. As a result, our net debt-to-EBITDA ratio improved significantly from 2.66 to 1.72x in this year. Net debt-to-equity now stands at a healthy 0.53. In Q1 FY 2026, our subsidiary DMSL raised INR 800 crore CCD, further fortifying the group balance sheet. These results reflect our clear focus on financial prudence, capital efficiency, and balance sheet strengthening. Some more insight on our segmental performance on our crop nutrition business, that is CNB. The business has one of its strongest ever Q4 showings. The bulk fertilizers grew at 68% YoY to 2.1 lakh metric tons. For the full year FY 2025, we have crossed the 1 million metric tons milestone, with manufactured volume surged from 55% to 888 Kt.
Our crop-focused specialty product Croptek more than doubled in its volume in Q4, up 111% YoY basis. Specialty fertilizers volume, which includes Bensulf and WSF, rose 13% YoY. Looking ahead, we are optimistic for the Kharif season, supported by forecasts of above-normal monsoon and our targeted approach across cotton, soybean, paddy, and corn through the Mahadhan brand. On mining chemicals, our TAN business continues to deliver strong operational performance. TAN volume in Q4 grew 13% sequentially to 146 Kt, though YoY we have seen a 3% decline. Full year basis, the volume grew by 3%. LDAN, our premium specialty offering, recorded 13% sequential and 11% YoY growth. Our increasing the B2C revenue share to 18%. As India's infrastructure and mining demand remains strong, particularly in coal, cement, steel, and aggregate, we see a positive momentum sustaining through FY 2026.
On industrial chemicals, despite a volatile global environment, this segment saw a solid performance. Nitric acid volumes saw a 29% YoY increase in Q4 and 3% for full year. IPA volume declined due to plant shutdowns for our process enhancement and productivity improvement, which is now completed in FY 2025, and IPA volume for full year FY volume was down 5%, primarily again led by this shutdown, which was important for us to ensure we have enhanced productivity and process going forward. Talking about outlook, nitric acid remained well-positioned with improving downstream demand from TAN, while IPA faces some near-term margin pressures due to oversupply and weak acetone prices. Our specialty product line is gaining steady market traction and positive customer feedback. Coming to our strategic project update, which is Gopalpur for TAN and nitric acid for Dahej, both have seen steady performance.
The Gopalpur progress is 75%, and the Dahej project has progressed 48%. We've then commissioned the commissioning of both the plant is expected in FY 2026. These investments are crucial enablers of our next growth cycle, focus on import substitution, margin extensions, and deeper market integration. To conclude, FY 2025 was a pivotal year for Deepak Fertilisers. Our strong financials and operational performance is a direct result of strategic transformations undertaken over the past few years. The momentum is expected to continue in FY 2026, driven by macro tailwind and our focus on high-margin differentiated products. We are entering the new fiscal year with strong foundations financially and operationally, and we remain confident in our ability to deliver sustained long-term value to all our stakeholders. With that, I now open the floor for any questions you may have.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session.
Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchstone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue is assembled. The first question is from the line of Tarang Agarwal from Old Bridge. Please go ahead. Mr. Tarang, your line has been unmuted. Please go ahead with your question. The next question, since there is no response, the next question is from the line of Jainam Ghelani from Svan Investments. Please go ahead. Mr. Jainam, your line has been unmuted. Please go ahead with the question.
Hi sir, am I audible?
Yes, you're audible. You may go ahead.
Yes. Hi sir, thanks for this opportunity.
My first question is, what is the current ammonia pricing and what was the annual savings in FI25 from the ammonia plant?
Okay. In fact, the current price of ammonia is around $300. Yeah, the last quarter, I'd say the average price is around $330. That's what the average number what we have seen. The saving is, I'll not say saving in terms of ammonia, we need to see separately because now we have integrated supply chain. As we continue to maintain, our EBITDA breakeven is around $310-$320, and that's a time of that at that price, the PCL remain a EBITDA breakeven.
Okay. What would be an EBITDA from our industrial chemicals business and fertilizers business, if you could specify?
We don't give segment-wise EBITDA margin this thing, but overall EBITDA, if you see, yes, at console level, we have delivered 19% EBITDA.
All three businesses have a different level of EBITDA. That's definitely we all understand or each one of you aware of. In terms of mining business, that's a highly profitable business. Fertilizer business, as such an industry, compared to all three businesses, comes at a lower level. Industrial chemicals, it's at the mid-level.
Okay. That would be helpful, sir. My last question is that, what would be our peak debt levels over the next two years because we have this huge CapEx upcoming?
No, that's in fact a standard question. I call it every time this come up and right to also. The good thing is we are reaching towards our current CapEx cycle is reaching towards fag end. the cycle we started with PCL capitalization or PCL operation.
Now with Gopalpur and Dahej coming to a fag end and we are expecting the commencement of production sometime in Q2 of this year. The debt level currently, we are at around INR 3,300 crore. We expect to be around INR 5,000 crore when the peak touches.
Can we expect that by FY 2026, INR 5,000 crore could be our peak debt and then we can expect deleveraging from next year?
Yes, that's the right assumption because the two new facilities which are coming up will start contributing sizably to our bottom line as well as to cash flow. The deleveraging will start after that.
Okay. That's it from my side. Thank you, sir. All the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of S. Ramesh from Nirmal Bang Equities. Please go ahead.
Thank you very much for your very detailed presentation and the congratulations on the results. In terms of the two housekeeping questions I have, one is your other expenses have gone up both on a YoY and quarter-on-quarter basis in the consolidated results. Secondly, in the segment results, your chemical business segment earnings is down, both again on YoY and quarter-on-quarter basis. Is that because of the IPA shutdown or any other reason for that?
You are talking quarter, right?
For both quarter, yeah.
In fact, industrial chemicals, yes, we have an IPA shutdown and that has an impact on our profitability.
In terms of the increase in other expenses? Carry onward. Carry onward due to increase in the.
In fact, since the majority of the growth has come from CNB business and that has a very high straight outward, so that's the impact what you see in our other expenses.
Is that seasonal or is it something which will continue depending on the growth in your fertilizer business?
It's a business specific. CNB growing will always see straight expenses going up higher compared to other two businesses.
Okay. Now on the projects and the long-term growth in your cash flows and return. If you look at your expansion in nitric acid and the integration into downstream TAN, what is the incremental ROC you'll get on the additional CapEx once you reach peak utilization and what is the peak utilization you expect by FY 2027?
No, in fact, both the new projects what we have embarked on, we are looking at a healthy ROC somewhere in the range of, I'll say, 18%-20%, and we will prefer to maintain that level for these two projects.
What is the utilization level required for this sort of ROC?
This is a standard what we see. I call it first year we expect 70%, which is the normal number. At the moment we go to an 80%-85%, we start seeing this kind of an ROC.
Okay. One last thought on the ammonium nitrate prices, which you may have used for your estimate. Do these numbers require any further increase in prices or at current prices you will be able to achieve? The reason why I am asking that is there are two competitors who are setting up, Chambal and GNFC.
Is there a challenge in terms of the placement of the additional volume in the next one to two years before the actual long-term growth in the downstream Hindu sectors? Is it able to absorb the incremental capacity? What is your thought on that?
No, in fact, although Mr. Mehta touched upon our plant USP and uniqueness, let me give you a few data points. Currently, the demand of TAN is around 1.4 million, and the present capacity in the Indian market is around 1 million. This industry is neck and neck. There is enough headroom for new players to come in and substitute input. The second thing, the TAN demand itself is growing 6%-7% YoY . That itself is, if we say, roughly around 1 million ton is getting added in the demand every year.
If you just put these two numbers in place and the new capacity which is coming up, the ramp-up does not happen on day one. Everybody will have its own ramp-up time. By the time this capacity is actually available in the market, neck and neck will again be starting import higher than the supply available. We do not see a challenge in the TAN demand. Second, you would have seen our specialty and downstream efforts reaching from customer to consumer. That is another thing which will help us to create our space and our uniqueness because we are a strong player in this market. First mover, 40 years, downstream, all this, and then we have a unique place on both the cost, less to loss. All these factors will make us a very different player or a different league player.
We don't see a challenge placing our capacity in the market.
Thank you for your detailed explanation. I wish you all the best. I'll join the team.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nikhil Gada from Abakkus AMC. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity and congrats on a good set of numbers. Just sort of a continuation on this overall TAN growth. Just for the fourth quarter as well as for the last three years, if we see the growth in our TAN volumes has been sort of sub-optimal. It's been around 1%-2% range. And while we are talking about a capacity of close to 6 lakhs, we've still not been able to achieve that is closer to those kind of levels.
Is it because of there being the demand being slower, or is it something where we are capacity constrained in terms of our nitric acid, which you mentioned, that is having an impact on this overall business?
No, Nikhil, you are right. There is no demand constraint, actually. We do have a demand, and we are at this point of time constrained by supply side. We have a nitric acid capacity constraint, and that's a limiting factor for us to grow our TAN substantially. That is one of the main reasons for us to get into capacity and expansions and then cater to the demand which we already know we have in front of us. Second thing, if you see what is immediate, we have done some debottleneck of TAN business, TAN capacity, and nitric acid capacity last year towards end of H1 or beginning H2, I call it.
That will also help us to do some additional volume this year. Y es, and second thing, if you ask me in TAN business specially, our focus is more moving from more and more specialty downstream from customer to consumer. That gives us not only additional stickiness of the business, but also incremental margins. The focus is more till the time we have capacity, we'll continue to go more towards value add and expand our margin. When the capacity available, we are good to go in a full force.
Okay.
I hope I answered your question.
Yes, sir.
So do we sort of say that even for FY 2026, I understand that you're focusing on more value addition, but in terms of volume growth, do we see FY 2026 also to do like a 2%-3% volume growth, or do we see better volume growth in FY 2026 since your capacity is going to come, most of it will start in FY 2027? Yeah.
No, it will be slightly more than the number you are saying. We do expect with some bottlenecking, we'll be able to do slightly better or better than that. But yes, if you're looking for a leapfrog jump, then that will happen once Gopalpur comes in place.
Fair enough. I've got it. In terms of the ammonia business, you sort of mentioned that 310-320 levels.
In terms of our because we have factored in it at $400, $410, and based on that, our working has been made in this business. Is there a better way to have you always dependent on the pricing for ammonia on a global level, or is there a better way to get an understanding of the spread? Because since quarterly, we are not getting all the subsidiary data as well, it's becoming a bit of a challenge to understand exactly the spread levels.
Two things, basically. Okay. Ammonia pricing is internationally available. I won't say there's any challenge. This is a published number, everyday numbers available. So one
can understand. But then because you sell at a premium as well, so definitely the price that yeah. Sorry.
Okay. Broadly, if you ask me, we do publish quarterly how is the ammonia price going on.
This is a number, and there is a standard formula from FOB Middle East to the landed how the number comes in. We can have that discussion, and we can discuss around that. Normally, if I talk about highly any change in ammonia price, we are an integrated business. It is a shift from one business to another. In neck, neck, if you see, we still the margin remains within business because we are an integrated player. We do, even if we see a softness here, but we do see a margin expansion for our other business.
If I want to ask it in a different way, the fourth quarter margins, which were at 23%, it has got nothing to do with the TAN ammonia spread. It is largely because of the industrial chemical business, IPA business not being present.
No, which fourth quarter 23%, I didn't get the number. We have an 18% margin in the quarter.
So I'm talking about the chemical business EBIT margins, which were at 23% for the fourth quarter, with a risk 27%, 28%, 31% for the last three quarters.
No, okay. When you're looking at chemical business, it has overall, if you see ammonia price between this last year, broadly, it remained at a similar level. Barring one quarter when it significantly gone up, but otherwise, it remained broadly at the same level. Last quarter, specifically, the dip in industrial chemical or dip in the chemical business segment is IPA is one thing which has impacted because there is a pressure of IPA prices globally, and that has impacted margin of industrial chemical business.
The last year, overall, ammonia prices were broadly stable, barring quarter three when it has seen a substantial increase, I call it.
Unde rstood. Got it. Just to complete this point.
Sorry to interrupt, Nikhil. Can we return to the question to you for a follow-up?
Sure, sure. I'll get back in a minute.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bharat Shah from ASK Investment Managers Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. I hope Sailesh Mehta is on the call because in his initial remarks, he made a comment that there was a certain valuation assigned to the mining chemical business, which represented the bulk of the value of the firm. He goes kind of expressing vendor vintage to why that is the case. I hope Sailesh Mehta is on the call.
No, Bharat bhai, keep asking.
I should be able to answer your question.
Okay. Because he raised the question, I thought he'll be there to discuss that question that he had raised. Be it as it may, I'll reach out to him separately. If he, Subhash, if he continued to play co-op and not give proper details of each business in terms of underlying moving parts, its profitability, and the change of the traction over a period of time, how do you expect, really speaking, for people to be able to analyze the business, which is three main activities, and each activity has many moving parts, and therefore whole aggregate performance is so much harder to analyze unless and until details are shared? Now, of course, the crop business is put into Mahadhan, and the mining business is going into, I think, DMSL . The picture would start getting more clear.
I wonder why that has not been the case so far.
No, Bharat bhai, very rightly so. And definitely, we started talking far more inside into our segmental businesses than what we used to talk earlier. It's only a matter of time when you start seeing us coming up with far more detail. Input well taken. We'll work on this.
Subhash, the entity which is DMSL now received INR 800 crore of the convertible debenture, right?
Yes.
And effectively, I assume it will dilute equity capital of that business by about 6%-7%.
Yeah. On a valuation of around INR 13,000 crore, INR 800 crore will be around that, 6%.
That will get converted by what timeframe?
No. In fact, CCD is for 48 months. There is an option after 30 months. We can convert anything after 30 months.
Okay.
Till then, it will be at 18%, right?
Yeah. Till that time, it has a coupon rate.
Therefore, about 94% equity will belong to the holding Deepak Fertilisers.
That's right. Once the dilution happens. Yeah.
On Mahadhan, what is the equity dilution of INR 400 crore that has happened? How much is the equity?
That is internal, not to external public. That's basically there was an OCD which Deepak had. That's what converted into equity. So 100% remains 100%. Nothing to change.
Then INR 400 crore, which has been injected there, is it reside?
Yeah. Basically, there was an OCD, which was an ICD now. There was an equity infusion from Deepak Fertilisers to Mahadhan. So the 100% still remains 100%. Nothing changes with it.
Oh, it's just the left and right pockets.
Yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. There's no external.
Okay.
That is a very confusing kind of.
No, it is basically the Samson Mahadhan balance sheet to Deepak Sadhilajus put in money.
Okay. And the INR 800 crore received in DMSL, I suppose, will remain in DMSL, except whenever dividends are paid out that Deepak Sadhilajus will get.
No, in fact, INR 800 crore in DMSL has come in for strengthening DMSL balance sheet, including their capital expansion, which is planned. The Gopalpur is part of DMSL. It is part and parcel of DMSL, strengthening balance sheet or capital expansion.
One last thing, Subhash. While over years, we have grown eight times, we have leapt ahead, then we have fallen behind. We are still well below what we did in 2020 to 2023 when the turnover exceeded INR 11,000 crore and bottom line exceeded more than INR 2,000 crore. We are still well below those numbers. When do you think we will surpass that performance?
Let's hope we surpass very soon.
Soon is in the current. So it will be.
I won't put a number or immediate timeframe for that. Yes, as management, definitely surpassing that should be soon.
Okay. Just one final thing. Current year, outlook on the mining chemical business, how would you portray it?
Okay. Current year, we do see demand side, we don't see a challenge. Definitely, we do have capacity constraint. Some debottle, I think, will help us to grow volume. We expect volume will grow in current year, although it will be single digit. We do expect margin expansions will play a larger role than just volume growth. That is what will be the story of DMSL. Then towards H2, when the new capacity come in, that will be a big, I'd say, change which will take the entire mining business to the new level.
Right.
Year of 2026, 2027 should be a record year for mining chemicals.
Yes. That is where all the levers, whether it is Gopalpur, whether it is this new plant, or whether it is a new gas contract, all will be fully operational at that time, and we will be in the new leap, I call it.
Okay. So 2026 will be a better year than 2025 for mini ng chemicals?
Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Bharat. Mr. Bharat?
Just one second. Completing this question.
Yeah. We do expect 2026, definitely. We will do an improvement. You will see definitely a better period compared to 2025, what we have. S ure.
Thank you, Subhash. And we will connect with Sailesh bhai also.
Sure. Sure. Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Pratyush Kamal from Incred Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello. Yeah, I am audible?
Yes, Pratyush.
Yeah. Congratulations on good setup number, sir. I have a few questions.
First is regarding the ammonia business, wherein you used to mention that about $380 per ton would be kind of break-even cost to you. I suppose that you usually produce ammonia from natural gas. You use about 33-35 MMBtu of natural gas for that. Given the fact that the natural gas prices have fallen down significantly from Q2 to Q4 because of Brent-linked and Henry Hub linked contracts, what is the current cost of gas that you are accumulating right now, due to which you would have, again, shifted your break-even cost from $380 to now $330, which you just mentioned?
No, in fact, $380 was, I do not think we ever stopped $380. We always maintained for a bit of break-even. Our number is around $310 to $320. We broadly remain at that level for a bit of break-even.
Only thing, second thing, you're talking about gas. Currently, our gas prices are more as if since our long-term Equinor contract yet to get kicked in, and that will get kicked in only next year, FY 2026. That is where we'll start seeing the real benefit of gas price reduction happening. Till that time, our contracts are linked to various baskets, not just one brand or not just one thing. The impact of that is not immediately, movement of gas price is not immediately visible to us or not immediately getting passed on to us. It has some lag when it comes to our ammonia pricing or accounting.
Okay. What is the usual time lag, sir, from the reduction of the basket of the price and your accumulating of the benefits of that?
It depends. Because each, we buy from three, four sources, not just one source.
So each has a different formula, I call it. Yeah.
Understood, sir. Second is regarding your nitric acid business. I wanted to ask that other than the IPA, did you also see some kind of dumping from China as nitro aromatics compound is concerned, due to which it would have reduced or impacted your margins on nitric acid basi
s front? Okay. Nitric acid, when you're talking, yes, nitro aromatics do have a challenge because of imports coming in, and that is seeing a competition. Other side of things, the TAN business across the country is seeing a good demand. Nitric acid is one of the important components or raw material input for that business. Nitric acid as a demand, as a total business, we have not seen a challenge placing our nitric acid. Actually, as you see, we are net-net short of nitric acid.
If we have more nitric acid, we can sell much more than what we are selling. We do not see an immediate impact of one of the specific segments seeing a softness of nitric softness. Overall, we are comfortable when it comes to our whatever capacity we have, we are able to place and place it comfortably at the right profit level.
Understood, sir. Was there a possibility in terms of getting the nitric acid from some other manufacturers and manufacturing ammonium nitrate from that if you were seeing a good demand coming up for ammonium nitrate and you were feeling short of the nitric acid? Was there any possibility or what do you think on that, sir?
We continue to explore and keep looking for those opportunities. It's not, we do not do that. Whenever right opportunity, we continue to keep looking and keep doing it.
Understood, sir.
Just a final question regarding the expansion project.
Mr. Pratyush, can I request you to return to the question queue for a follow-up question?
Sure, sure. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two participants. The next question is from the line of Tarang Agrawal from Old Bridge. Please go ahead.
Hello. Hi, am I audible?
Yes.
Oh, wonderful. Thanks. Just a couple of questions, rather bookkeeping. You said for TAN, is the licensed capacity 587 Kt or 630 Kt?
It's 587. TAN capacity.
Okay. Right. Okay. Got it. Second, how big is LDAN for you? And what is the significance of the B2C metric that you laid out in the presentation?
Okay.
No, in fact, the LDAN basically is a product which gets used as an explosive in the mine or in infrastructure. We used to sell most of our product as a B2B segment off-plate as a part of our TCO. We started working with end consumers, which is various mines and infra, and started working with them to supply LDAN directly to them. That is how our downstream business or B2C journey in TAN is expanding. Now we have reached to a level where our 18% of the share comes from our sale to B2C segment.
Just to understand correctly, I mean, if Coal India was your customer, was there an intermediary involved in between, and now you are selling it to Coal India directly? Is that what you are trying to say?
I am not sure the name of the customer, XYZ.
No, just an example. Just an example.
Your understanding is right. Earlier, we were going through intermediary who were converting. Now we are able to reach out directly and make our product available to them directly.
Okay. I mean, how are the metrics different for that business versus your overall business? I mean, do you get higher pricing or your volume visibility is better or your ability to protect your market share is better? I mean, any insight would be helpful.
All three, actually, not just one. Definitely, it gives me value-based pricing because the way our TCO model works, as you explained earlier, we are moving towards productivity solutions to the end consumer. We are not just selling products. We are working as a partnership to them and showing we can improve their mine productivity or infra productivity.
The moment we reach out to solutions, it's a value pricing that helps us to expand margin, that helps us to improve stickiness, and also because then we become actually a true partner. Third thing, definitely, I call it once you have stickiness in this, your market share improves.
So 18% is for FY 2025, Q4?
FY 2025. Q4.
Okay. A couple more on CapEx.
Mr. Tarang, can we return to the question queue for a follow-up question?
These are just objective one-liner questions that I'm asking. Just give me a couple more, and then I'll get back on the line. Sir, on CapEx, if you could give us your overall CapEx for FY 2026 and 2027, the maintenance CapEx within that. Last, for Gopalpur and Dahej, what has been the CapEx outlay till March 2025, and what is the likely outlay in 2026 and 2027? Thanks.
That's it from me.
Okay. In fact, the total CapEx this year, which we talked about for FY 2026, total the two new projects, total CapEx is expected to be around INR 4,500 crores total, I'm talking. Out of that, we already have our capitalization is around INR 1,400 crores. That's what we already completed, so balance is expected in the current year.
S o INR 3,100 crores in FY 2026, all of it?
That's what we because we need to complete and do it, so this is the CapEx of this year expected.
And for your footprint, what is your maintenance CapEx that you run with?
That's roughly around, I'd say, INR 300-400 crores that's a normal maintenance CapEx, which will continue in the normal business.
Sure. Thank you. I'll join the queue.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question.
I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thanks. Thank you once again for your time and interest in Deepak Fertilisers and Petrochemicals Corporation Limited. We appreciate your continued support and look forward to engaging with you in the next quarter.
Thank you. On behalf of Philips Capital India Private Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect the line.