...you in person, and for that, we have our Managing Director, Mr. Bhushan Akshikar. Some of you have met Bhushan, or at least interacted with Bhushan on the previous calls. As you know, Bhushan has experience of over 14 years in key leadership roles in GSK across India, Middle East, Russia, CIS, and Africa region. Before joining GSK, Bhushan has spent 15 years with Johnson & Johnson in local and regional positions in India, South Korea, and Belgium. So, Bhushan will speak. We also have our Chief Financial Officer, Juby Chandy. Juby has a successful track record of over 17 years in key leadership roles in GSK across India, Singapore, Southeast Asia, Vietnam, Turkey, and the Middle East.
Without further ado, I'd like to invite our Managing Director, Bhushan, on stage to address you, and we will take questions at the end. Preference for those who are in the room, so that's the other insight. Thank you. Bhushan, over to you.
Thank you very much, Ransom. So at the outset, thank you very much to everybody who's here in this room. I know there are 2 rallies going on in Bombay, so really appreciate the investment of your time. And to everybody on the line as well, thanks a lot for joining us. We've just announced our results for Q4 and the full year, 2023, 2024. I don't intend to spend much time taking you through PowerPoint decks, but I'll just spend about, between me and Jubi, we'll just spend about 15 minutes, max 10-15 minutes to contextualize and frame, the results, and then open it up for Q&A, which is, I think, the more, more important part. So for those who are here, those who have already been to our, what we call...
We've just unveiled with our board what we call as the Heritage Gallery. We are in our hundredth year of our operations. In the next few months, we will complete a century of our operations in India. And if you look at the results that we've announced today for the full financial year of INR 303,400 crores, broadly diversified between GenMed, which is the primary care business, the vaccines business, and the specialty business that we're rebuilding. And if you were to characterize each of the businesses around the anchors that really help us take the business forward, it really is about the focus. Over the last three, four years, we've really optimized our portfolio.
We put energy into identifying where is it that we need to put all the, all the resources, and doing that in the most innovative manners, which means doing much more with digital acceleration, doing much more with, the right medical support. And last but not the least, is really be agile, in the form of building those new platforms of growth. So those are the three, real variables that underpin our operations on the commercial side. Jumping straight into our business performance, and I'll just frame the external reflections as reported by the IQVIA.
If you recall, I and my CFO, Juby, we met up with all of you, when we announced our results for Q3, and we had said that we'll come back to you on the progress that we're making at the end of Q4, as well as the financial year. One of the biggest things that we did at the end of Q3 was transform our general medicines portfolio and our operating model, doing a lot more with digital acceleration. I just want to give you a sense of how that has translated in the first quarter that has gone by. If you look at our evolution index, clearly 2 percentage points ahead of the market, so which means, we've done well, compared to the represented market, and I'm talking only volumes.
So obviously, the closest unit that represents the health of the business is the prescriptions, and prescriptions are the closest to the volumes. So clearly, I want to highlight that as a fact. Within our represented market for general medicines, which is almost 80% of our total business, we have actually gained 0.6% volume share, which is another data point which I want to share. If you recall, a year ago, when we announced the results, we were greatly impacted with the NLEM. I think the two assets that we talked about, which is the most impacted, were Ceftum and T-Bact, which were hitherto not included in the essential medicines list. Just to report, we've, when we closed the quarter and the financial year, we have delivered 56% growth in volumes for Ceftum.
That has really allowed us to mitigate the significant impact, and the volumes on T-Bact have also grown by 10%. You will hear in the financials when Juby comes and presents how this all stacks up in terms of our top line and bottom line. But I'm giving you that, those two, as illustrative examples of how we've been able to really come back and mitigate the significant impact. And on the right-hand side, you'll see it's been a good report card in terms of the green that you see there. So every single brand, we always say that at GSK, we still have seven brands in the top 50 of the Indian pharma market. And if you look at that list, each of those brands has actually gained share.
So if you see right from Augmentin to Synflorix, every single brand has added market share as well as in volumes, we've been ahead of the represented market. The question is really, what has helped us do this? For a portfolio that continues to reinvent itself, for a company that continues to reinvent its ways of working, but remaining rooted in the purpose by, for which it exists. I just want to spend probably less than a minute to give you a sense of what we did in the last quarter.... So, how's your day going?
Don't ask. Most of the patients I've seen today-
No?
have fever, plus some of them have body aches, plus some of them have reported headache as well. Plus, I-
Plus? I thought we had tested this. Abhinav? All right, let's keep going. So, how's your day going?
Don't ask. Most of the patients I've seen today have fever, plus some of them have body aches, plus some of them have reported headache as well. Plus, I-
Plus...
Plus?
Calpol 650 Plus. If the problems are plus, the solution too should be plus. Calpol 650 is now Calpol 650 Plus, meaning the same trust of Calpol 650 now with the power of Optizorb. It has the combination of alginic acid that assures the tablet breaking, crospovidone that facilitates the tablet disintegration, and calcium carbonate that acts with crospovidone.
Hmm, this is great!
This is plus. Calpol 650 Plus, now with the power of plus. Well, again, that was just an illustrative example of showing, if we have to keep reinventing ourselves, how do you really bring more value to the millions of patients who depend on a category which is as commoditized as paracetamol? And yet, if you look at the equity that the brand commands, there's—it's a trust mark, and that's why we've done. So this was launched, and clearly, if you saw the market share gain that I've shown in the previous slide, it's attributed to some of the innovative work that we did. Sorry.
The other bit that we did in the general medicines business in November, December, if you recall the announcements, where we shared the digital transformation that we've done. So we've put in a significant investment in the form of a dedicated team, an omni-channel team, which really helps us create a seamless omni-channel experience for all the healthcare practitioners that we cover, as well as the ones that we don't cover on a face-to-face basis. What do I mean by that?
Clearly, for all the healthcare practitioners who have concerned-consented to allow us to reach out to them in the form of different channels, including WhatsApp, emailers, digital, we are doing that in a seamless manner and ensuring that the reach and awareness that we create for our brands is only getting 2x and 2.5x in a short time, and not just depending on the face-to-face transactions, in terms of the communication alone. This is really helping us deliver some best-in-class experience.
So in spite of having a significant reduction in the field force in the Q3, if you remember, we've still been able to maintain our competitive performance, and that's because we have, we are also supplementing our frontline sales teams with a lot of digital work at the back end. We've already enabled nine of the key brands that you see in general medicines to go through a significant omni-channel experience. So as I said, we opened up and enabled the new channels for engagement with healthcare practitioners. Coming to the real turnaround this quarter, it's been a rock-solid performance on the pediatric vaccines portfolio. If you recall, the last two quarters, I've been sharing that we are stabilizing and now turning the corner in terms of growth.
This quarter really represented a strong delivery by the vaccines team. So overall, in the pediatric vaccines business, we continue to maintain the leadership in the self-pay market with almost 23.5% market share. But again, the same story, if you've seen strong volume growth, our EIs are ahead of 100, plus the value growth of 19%. All enabled by some significant work that we are doing in the consumer awareness area, reaching out to consumers and parents, but also putting in some robust plans with the healthcare organizations, especially the Pediatric Association as well as the Gynecologists Association. Right-hand side, the table really shows again the competitive performance across the portfolio. We've done well both in terms of the growth as well as the shares.
So on a quarterly basis, we are back to about, selling 1 million doses of pediatric vaccines, across this portfolio. And again, we've retained our leadership across the board. Not sure if this is going to work, but I'm going to try. But a small video again, just to show the work that we're doing. Vaccination. Vaccination card, check it.
... One- to two-year-old children with seven vaccinations, such as chickenpox, hepatitis A, meningitis, flu, and other vaccinations. Do not miss them. One- to two-year-old children with seven vaccinations for seven-star protection.
So if you saw in that campaign, clearly it's aimed at the birth cohort, which is one year plus. So apart from defending our leadership position in the zero to one year category, we're really ensuring that many of the babies that miss out vaccinations in the one to two year get covered. So this is being run right now across all social and digital channels. Coming to the most important launch that we've had in the last 12 months, we launched a vaccine to prevent shingles, herpes zoster. And if you recall what I talked to you in the last two meetings, we have a very clearly defined roadmap in terms of winning with healthcare practitioners, winning with consumers, because especially after COVID, there's one thing that changed.
Adult vaccines definitely are understood compared to where we were probably 5 years ago. But we'll have to continue to do a lot of work to educate consumers and build that disease awareness, especially around shingles. And the last is creating the adult vaccination ecosystem, be it with healthcare organizations, be it with hospitals, be it with assisted living places and communities, be it with diagnostic labs. So there's a lot of work happening across all of these three elements. And, for the last quarter, as well as the first full year that we've had from May till March, we saw almost 55,000 doses, translating to roughly about INR 50 crore worth of Shingrix in the first year of launch. Again, a very strong program, enabled to really create an awareness around shingles in the consumer community.
This is just a 30-minute, 30-second video, but really shows a glimpse of the kind of work that's happening at the back end to really bring science and also a sense of ownership around preventing many of these diseases, including shingles.
Archana ma'am, you look very cute. So why do they say that you look like a ma'am? They make so many jokes on you. Don't you feel bad about such jokes?
They are jokes. Why feel bad? I don't take jokes seriously, and neither should you. But what I do take seriously is protecting my family and loved ones from any serious disease, particularly vaccine preventable diseases like shingles. I became worried about shingles when I learned that 90% of people who are 50 or older already have the shingles virus.
So this, again, is an example to show the kind of work that we are doing that's transformational in nature. Obviously, when you're creating a new category, that too, in a country where adult immunization is almost embryonic or even sometimes non-existent, there's a lot of heavy weightlifting that organizations like us have to do in terms of bringing the message around prevention. So we've run two very successful campaigns in the last quarter around both shingles awareness as well as immunization week. So that's just an example of how we are doing, which is helping us in the outcome that I talked earlier.
Archana ma'am-
Just a slide on how we are doing on the innovation index. One of the things that I had talked to all of you when I talked to, I think 6 months ago, was for an organization like ours, how do we set up the freshness index will be important in the next 2-3 years. This is just an example of showing that 3 assets were not a part of our portfolio maybe 3 years ago, which contributed almost nothing, are contributing almost INR 100 crores as a group, in the last financial year. So this is the way forward, apart from defending the competitive performance and building on the significant assets that we have. How do we really create the new growth platforms for us is a singular objective of me and the leadership team here.
Those three things that you see on the slide, those three assets will continue to be the growth drivers for the organization in the next 2-3 years. I think I'm going to now invite Julie, who will just quickly take us through the results. We already announced and shared the results with the stock exchange, but he'll just spend a few minutes, and then we'll open it up for question and answers.
Thank you. Thank you, Bhushan, and good evening, everyone. I'll not take so much time on the financials because you would have seen the results by now, but I will, I would like to connect the progress which Bhushan has articulated on the commercial side to the financials, right? So you've seen the headline growth of 16%. This is the quarter results, and what's interesting is the quality of the growth. Okay, so what do I mean by that is both pharma as well as vaccines, both delivering double-digit growth. Remember, there is an NLEM impact in the same quarter last year, which is impacting the base of last year. Now, if I restate that base, we are talking about roughly 11% growth, okay, so on the turnover.
EBITDA side, if you remember, when we met you last time, one of the major headwinds we had was the NLEM impact. That time we flagged you that I'll come to that in the full year. When we were talking about the full year, we had a full year impact of roughly 8% on the top line, close to INR 200 crore. We committed that time that we'll be mitigating most of that. Perhaps around 60%-70% of that will be mitigated. Again, in the quarter, I think quarter two, we came and said we will be mitigating around 80% of that. Now, as we speak, when we close the year, we have mitigated almost close to 100% of that, so which you'll see in the full year EBITDA margins.
So EBITDA margins for the quarter, it has improved 670 basis points. This is through sustained margin improvements, so we have margin improvements on several products. We have better mix. The product mix of our promotion has also changed, as well as cost-saving initiatives. If you remember last quarter, we have optimized the headcount that's also flowing through in the results. So our scalable omni-channel, the digital engagements are also driving the upside, because we could scale and reach out to more doctors with much less, lesser cost. So we'll be continuing the focus on the cost engagement, cost management, and you will see the EBITDA will be sustainably, perhaps maintaining or improving from here on. PAT, it's having the same impact of the EBITDA. It's showing the same behavior of EBITDA.
Moving on to the full year, if you see the full year, it's 6% growth. Remember, there is an NLEM impact of top line 8%, so that is mitigated to a larger extent, and 6% is the reported growth. NLEM impact has been mitigated through a series of activities, right from WPI price increase. We have taken price optimization at many places, including our discounts at many places. Cost efficiencies, volume, the focus on volume, which, the commercial excellence on driving volume like Keftab and TBAC, that is been fully leveraged in the last year, as well as the new launches vaccines, both Nimenrix as well as Shingrix, both has an excellent offtake last year, and that is seeing in the top line, results of vaccines 35%.
Close to one-third of that growth is coming from this uptake of the new products. All our brands are gaining market share, which is perfectly connecting to the financials. Margin, I said margin has been fully, the NLEM impact has been fully mitigated. That's why you're seeing the margin above last year, despite we had a significant NLEM price cut impact. Our productivity has improved. If you see about, we have reduced around 450 people through the optimization exercise we have done, and our per head productivity of the field has improved close to north of 20% plus. Okay. So that's also there, and volume focus was there throughout the year. Right side on the last box, PAT, it's a decline of 3%. If you see that's the headline reported decline.
That's primarily because of one-off VRS cost, which we have reported in the previous quarter, not in this quarter. Return on capital employed has improved to 53% from last year, 48%. Our cash flow is very strong. As we speak, we exited with 100% of our profits converted to cash. We had better working capital management also this year, lower inventory and lower receivables. Our working capital is improved and our cash flow is close to, you know, INR 1,800 crore plus cash we are holding. Earnings per share, excluding that one-off adjustments of VRS, it's we are talking about 40.83, which is 14% growth year-on-year. That's basically the summary of financials.
Most of the, efficiencies in the commercial is playing out, the volumes is coming, the margin improvements are happening, cost efficiencies have been dialed in, dialed in as well as, the, the cash focus and return on capital employed, all are playing out in the full year. Let me pause there. Maybe we'll open up for questions, Bhushan. That might be a better way. Yeah.
This is a slide that I had shown a year ago, and I think I'm just pulling this slide back to reaffirm our commitment to the double-digit growth. That is a clear objective for this organization over the next three to five years. Not too many companies can take this pride and say that we've been operating in this country for 100 years, but I think we are making it even more fulfilling by saying that our SiMPL objective, apart from delivering growth, is to touch the lives of 1 billion Indians.
Given the nature of our brands, given the nature of the portfolio, where we have the remarkable opportunity to play in the prevention space, in the general medicine space, which really is the ability to touch the lives of 300-400 million Indians in one stroke with brands like Calpol or Augmentin. But we're really setting up new platforms of growth for us in the coming time, and that's exactly how our ambition remains the same. We've continued to remain focused, so the idea is to build on what we've done with Shingrix with the next few slew of launches.
The focus will be on relentless improvement of our top line and bottom line by delivering a competitive performance on our base business, which is what we just talked of, the pharma and the ped vaccines, and of course, to do all of that, have the right culture. This is an incredible moment for us because you can see on that right-hand side, 100 years of trust. The access and the equity that we have to healthcare practitioners in this country, when we say that we represent GlaxoSmithKline, still remains intact. And I think, the last 30 seconds, we'll just share- ... Thank you very much for your attention. I think this is what symbolizes the purpose, the larger purpose that unites all of us across the value chain in the organization.
So on that note, I think I will open it up for Q&A. Request Ruby, with the first. Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you, Bhushan and Jubi. So, we have in the room close to 30 people, and on the line we have close to over 50 people. So, and we have limited time. So, the way I'm going to do it is, please raise your hand. We'll have a mic that will come to you. Please be brief. Introduce yourself, your name, where you are from, your brief question, and to whom. So the first preference would be for people in the room, and for those who are online, to make it more optimal, we have a chat section. So kindly put in your question in the chat section. We will then kind of read out with your name, because I think that will become more optimal rather than go back and forth. So first question in the room.
Can we have the mic here, and then here? Second. Mic, please, either. Yeah. No. And the second question is for you.
Can you hear me? Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. First of all, congratulations on the excellent performance and the, you know, the effort that you've laid out over the last 2-3 years to come here and, you know, build a base from your own. You know, in your remarks, you sort of did mention about the growth going forward to sort of maintain double-digit. One is, you know, on the volume side, if you see for the year, we've sort of grown at about 6%-8%, and for Q4, we grew at about 12%-13%. I'm talking about the general med portfolio, which is a larger part of the portfolio. Going into FY 2025 and FY 2026, do you believe that you can sustain the Q4 volume num- for the entire year, or there is some element of seasonality also in the general med portfolio?
If you could just answer. Yeah. My name is Mitul Mehta. I'm from Lucky Investment Managers.
Thank you very much, Mitul, for that question. Absolutely, yes. As you rightly picked up, the general medicines portfolio is, is really the, the foundation on which large part of our business rests. And if you look at the last three years, regardless of the NLEM impact, we've had a strong volume evolution every single year. If you, last three years in a row, if you look at all the top nine brands that we have, we've not only been in the top in the pharma industry, but even in terms of volumes and the represented categories that, that each of these assets, belong to, we've had a strong, strong performance. So I think when I scope out the next 24-36 months, we, we definitely see the continued momentum.
If you see the volume growth that we will talk about, each of the assets has delivered single high digit or at least a double-digit growth in the last 12 months, and we see every reason to continue doing that. If you remember my first slide, I talked about some innovative ways of reaching out, and we've really unlocked some value with the digital acceleration that we've seen, which has really helped us remain ahead of most of the competitors in each of the categories. So the answer is an emphatic yes in terms of the volume growth. Yes, the seasonality is inbuilt to a large extent. I think some of the brands, we've always seen, you know, associated between a few quarters, we've always seen a spike.
Regardless of that, I think the volumes will remain. Yeah, the second point is, if you've seen the last NLEM, that was the most significant one for us, but because hitherto we didn't have Keftab and Tibact included, which were the biggest brands in terms of the sheer erosion that happened on the top line, bottom line. For the next three years, thankfully, we know there is no NLEM coming around, but we are not going to depend only on that. This is a real time to build the continued momentum. The answer is yes, we see the same momentum continuing over the next three years for Genmed. Given the...
Always there are spikes, as we know, but typically, given the nature of our portfolio, for example, the dermatology portfolio has one of the best performances in Q3, which gets evened out, in the summers, whereas anti-infectives and pain category really pick up in those next two quarters. So I think as a portfolio, a blended growth anywhere in 9%-12% is what we will see continuing, to be delivered.
This is Pritesh from Lucky Investments. So the question is around the specialty portfolio side. It's been three years that we are trying to create a significant business there. The business achievement is about INR 100 crore. We have been traditionally a general medicine selling company. What changes have been brought in to make sure that the specialty medicines portfolio ramps up? Because the skill set there is slightly different. So what changes have been brought in? My guess is there must be some challenge by which in three years you have reached INR 100 crore. Because usually, brands start with saying that, "I want to reach INR 100 crore immediately, and we have three products, and three products combined have reached INR 100 crore." So what were the challenges? And incrementally, you have an aspiration to introduce the respiratory and the cardiac medicine from the global portfolio.
What are the stages of those 18 or 20 drugs, or 18 or 20, options, and what is the progress there? So, you know, around the specialty. This 3% of sale, if you have a 5-year double-digit sales growth target, this 3% of sale should be what in the next 5 years?
Probably, I'll spend an hour answering those 12 questions that you asked.
You can always give it.
I'll take all the questions. I'll try and ensure that I don't lose out the sequence. Well, the first thing is, I just want to remind that we did have that muscle, so it's not that we didn't ever sell specialty. We did have a thriving oncology business when the asset swap deal happened, a decade ago, globally, for which we had to hand over the oncology portfolio to Novartis, if you recall. So that was again, INR 150 crore business that we had built from scratch. It was a standing start for us, so just wanted to remind that there is some muscle memory there. To the question that you asked about the portfolio, I just want to remind, Shingrix is just 12 months old.
We launched exactly. May was the month that we got last year, which is, as I said, we already touched, we already vaccinated about 55,000 doses already, you know, as a part of the first remit. The second is, if you look at each of the assets that I talked about on that slide, each is representing a massive opportunity for us. Take the example of Trelegy, which operates in the broncho inhalation space. Large market, INR 4,500 crore in respiratory. But if you look at where the growth is coming for, from, for the last 12-18 months, it's all on this category called closed single inhalation triple therapy, the closed SITT.
As you also picked up in our global results also, Trelegy is one of the biggest, apart from the vaccines that we sell, it's one of the biggest assets that we have. It's more than GBP 2.5 billion for us globally. And that's the kind of groundswell that we are already seeing. Somebody had asked me, I think, I don't remember, I think, somebody had asked me in the last meeting: "Why can't some of these new assets be INR 50 crore or INR 100 crore each?" And I think that's the ambition that we are achieving. If you've seen the last two quarters, each of these assets is growing in excess of. The EI is in excess of 145%-150%. So obviously, that's the kind of incremental growth that we are doing.
You talked about skill sets. Yes, we have now, apart from the digital acceleration, we have access teams. We have redefined some of the work that we do in the medical area to really change the trajectory on the uptake and upswing of the assets. So, the last question that you had asked is, moving forward, what should that number be? Again, as you know, we don't give forward-looking guidance. But as a corporation, I think my personal belief is that that freshness index has to be at least 10%-15% of the top line, so that you continue to have your base, which delivers sustained performance, but you're bolting on the new platforms of growth, as I keep saying. And that's exactly where we will play. We also have... You asked a question about trials.
We have over 19 global clinical trials ongoing right now, in areas like oncology, in areas like hepatology. We probably have the first functional cure for hep B, and a trial is ongoing even in India as a part of the global remit. So that's a clear area of specialty medicines which will get bolted on. So it'll continue to allow us to be most broadly diversified from prevention in the form of vaccines, everything in the middle with general medicines and specialty on the other side.
Anything coming this year, next year in that?
We have the marketing authorization for our oncology assets, and right now we are looking at the go-to-market strategy for these assets. So as you know, we have the marketing authorization for two assets indicated in the ovarian and endometrial cancer. But we're still looking at what is the best go-to-market strategy.
Okay. My last question is, at the GSK board global, what are the change with respect to India in their discussions or in their thought processes about GSK India? And the other usual thing with MNC, and obviously GSK, has been a slightly frequent change in the head here. So on that side, any comments you want to make in terms of continuity or how do they look at GSK India?
Well, somebody asked me a question last week on our commitment to ESG and sustainability, and I said: Look, we are, our organization has sustained for 100 years in India. So, on the lighter side, the fact that we continue to be a relevant organization, if you look at our top line, we just announced our results. We still are one of the biggest stakeholders as well as contributors in the emerging markets remit. And, the idea is to definitely continue to look at India as a source for not only delivering business results, but as a source for talent.
As many of you may be aware, it is outside the listed entity, but we also have a global capability center that GSK has invested with creation of almost 4,000 jobs in India and Bangalore, in early R&D, in manufacturing, in procurement. So large part of the global jobs are a part of this GCC. So clearly, India continues to be a shining example of renewed commitment, apart from the century that we have already got here.
... Hi, this is Carl from ICICI Mutual Fund here. Hi. So a couple of questions from my side. One is this 12% growth for the quarter that we have shown. This was not shown as per IQVIA. So is there some difference between the primary sales or secondary sales which would have led to this? Second, post VRS, so where are we on the employee strength or the MR strength, and will this quarter employee run rate be a fair representation to be extrapolated for the next year? Third, if you can also help us understand how much of the general medicine continues to be in NLEM as per FY 2024.
So I'll take a couple of those questions, and I'll ask Juby to chime in. So if you recall, last time I did talk about it, I think 6 months ago, I did when I interacted with the investor community, I said that we have about 40% of our gen med portfolio now in the NLEM. So that's the answer to your last question. On the second question, I think Juby articulated the number there, but we've had only 1 quarter in terms of baking in the upside with the reduced headcount. So I think the full benefits will accrue over the period of the next 12 months, and this financial year.
We had said that, you know, with this, we certainly see anywhere between 1.2, 1.5 to 2%, you know, margin benefit. But I don't know if, Julie, you want to add something there?
No, I think, So I think the headcount piece which you are asking, so it's pretty much stabilized. We have completed the VRS initiatives. It is the whole quarter is full completed, and it's up and running with the full strength, basically. So there's no immediate changes we are expecting on that front. On the sales gap versus IQVIA, yeah. Typically, there is some part of hospital business, but IQVIA is not a full representation in terms of what the reported numbers is. But remember, last year there was an NLEM impact, so that could also be some part of the difference. That's why I said 16% is our total sales growth.
Last year, same quarter, if you compare quarter to quarter, there is a what you said, a credit note issue for the NLEM to the distributors has been there in the base. So the base has been a bit understated to that extent. So if I exclude that, means if I add back that credit note which I have issued back, so which is the like-to-like comparison, we are talking about 11% growth on the quarter.
Just last one question, if I may squeeze?
Yes.
If you can help us understand the margin breakup between the vaccine and the gen med portfolio, to the extent you can help us understand, or at the gross margin level or the EBITDA margin, whichever?
Yeah, I think we don't give—we have never given the split guidance on margins. But you know, all the vaccines are imported products, and all the pharma products are locally manufactured, and 98% of the pharma products are locally manufactured. Hence, the margins have huge variance. And again, between the products, we have large number of products. Between the products also, there's huge margin variance. But since we continuously promote the same product in the same mix, for example, if we have 100 people or 1,000 people promoting Augmentin, they will continue to promote the same way, so the mix always maintains.
For a margin guidance, you could assume the same margins could continue unless there is any structural changes happens in the market, which we are not seeing in the foreseeable future at this point in time.
Is it working? Yeah. Vijay Bhatia from Max India Investments. I had a very generic question that, you know, I took Shingrix vaccine last week, and the cost is kind of very prohibitive, INR 11,000 per dose, and the second dose also is around INR 11,000. So for a person who's aged more than fifty, INR 22,000 for a dose. Are you planning... What is your target audience that you think will be the blue sky scenario in this? And do you plan to reduce these prices going ahead? Because how do you address the market?
Thanks for the question. So if you recall, I've had it in my slide at the top as well. It's there in the investor presentation that we loaded last time. If you look at the population of our country, and if you look at all the filters in terms of geographies, economic, the economics, we're still talking of about 60 million Indians spread over the top 15 cities, which can be the potential target addressable market for this category. You asked about price. This is, by the way, an India-centric price, because if you were to go to the U.S. or U.K., it's almost $350, GBP 350 worth of, you know, the price to the consumers.
We also have to remember that for an innovation like this, where it's providing protection for—now we have data for 12 years, which means once you've taken these two shots, you're protected for 12 years. Earlier when we launched this last year, we had data for the first 10 years. We just got released data now, which says that for 12 years, you'll be protected against herpes. If you were to pro rate that over a 12-year period, this is probably cheaper than a flu influenza vaccine on an annualized basis. Because flu, as you know, has to be taken, the seasons are changing, you have to take actually both. You're talking of at least 2,000-3,000 doses, INR per year, for a flu vaccine.
On an annualized basis, spread over the decade of 12 years of protection that you get, it is at a price point. I'm conscious that, yes, for the average Indian consumer, this might seem a higher amount, but it's largely driven by the innovation, the kind of innovation that is a part of this category.
And, Sahil?
At this stage, no, I think we are just focused on ensuring that as many people benefit with this innovative vaccine as possible.
Yep.
Next question. Yeah.
Yes. Good evening, sir. Jay from MK Investment Managers . So, sir, we've got three verticals: Genmed, Specialty, and Vaccines, and we've got activation happening in all of those verticals. Now, within the organization, what do you think is going to be the next growth driver, if you were to see amongst these three divisions? The faster growing divisions.
So I think, look, if you see the global organization, where GSK as a biopharma organization, is reinventing and repurposing itself. And if you've seen our, our investor presentations, the last couple of years, we have clearly stated our intent to do work in adult immunization. So if you look at our global results, one of the best launches globally has been in the area of RSV, which is another vaccine. It's one of the fastest, in I think 4 months, it became a GBP 1 billion vaccine in the U.S. alone. So there are trials going on in this, for this vaccine across the globe, including in India. And I think if you look at the next few years, the ability to take charge of your health, the whole sense of well-being and to prevent, will be an area.
So I think the first question that you asked is around what does it take to really help create those ecosystems for enabling consumers at large, as well as healthcare practitioners who are so focused only on treatment, but also to change the narrative and say, "You know, we want to be as focused on prevention along with treatment?" I think so that requires a different capability, and that's where we'll continue to build our muscle. The second one is around general medicines. So what we did in the last quarter in terms of the transformation that we just talked of, I had that one slide on what we've done in terms of omni-channel.
So today, we have elements of machine learning or AI, where if I'm a rep detailing to a doctor in, say, Worli area of Bombay, I can actually, in real time, show to that doctor which are the infections prevalent and which anti-infectives are the most susceptible, and therefore, the choice that he can or she can make, and that's all real time. So we're investing our energy here because every physician is interested only in one thing, improving his or her treatment outcomes. And that's an area where we are making some significant investments. So how to really digitally accelerate so that those decisions that the HCPs make are in the best interest and the fastest interest of the patient. So those two would stand out. The third one is, of course, vaccines.
And you saw, clearly, you know, what we had seen during COVID, the periodic vaccination is gradually coming back to the growth space. So continue to do work there to help enable pediatricians. So I think broadly, those three will remain. And the first question that was asked, on top of this bolt-on our new growth platforms, which includes the specialty portfolio. So that's gonna be a clear call-out for us as an organization in the next three to five years.
But just to add, you know, if you see the Indian industry as a whole, Genmed still has a lot of scope, whether it's antibiotics, it is the number one, Augmentin is the number one product in the industry. So even a small initiative in Augmentin or Calpol, that's still going to be a major growth driver for us. Okay, so unlike the global GSK's, where other countries, where we have to definitely have a big shaping happening in the specialty or oncology space, here, Genmed is still relevant. Our organization is fully focused on delivering general medicines business, including Augmentin, Calpol, Eltroxin, all these brands, despite four or five decades in the country, is still growing this asset. So we are conscious of the value of these assets. We are continuing to invest in these assets.
Our largest field force are also lined up behind these assets. I think we are not taking our eyes off from these assets. These are, again-
Absolutely. I just want to add, too, regardless of what happens on June fourth, clearly, one of the things that the health ministry has stated explicitly is the OTC bill. And I think that, that's gonna be one of the big levers of growth, especially from a Genmed standpoint, because, we shouldn't forget that we are still the number one paracetamol brand in the country. And, if there's anyone that has to do work there and, really ensure that we maximize the value and benefit to consumers and patients at large, it's the brands which have equity like the ones that we have. So that's gonna be one of the big opening, you know, areas for us in the next 12-18 months.
Sir, second was, is like you mentioned, that the vaccine portfolio is largely imported for us. Is there a possibility to locally source these products?
As of now, no.
When is the expected launch for Onco portfolio? Have we-
We are looking... As I said, we are right now exploring the best go-to-market model, because obviously we want to come up to speed. So that's where the whole energy is. I won't hazard a guess in terms of the time, but sooner than later.
Yeah. Dhaval Shah from Birla Mutual Fund. I have three questions. The first one is on Shingrix. You know, it's been one year of launch, 55,000 doses. 3-5-year outlook initially was somewhere between 3-5 lakh doses is what we could typically scale up to, given the potential size of what we're trying to look at. Would you still maintain that, or would you want to reduce the overall doses or increase it in terms of the outlook, given your interactions with HCPs?
... That's a brilliant question. No, we would not. We still remain absolutely optimistic, because remember, in a country where absolutely no vaccination ecosystem exists, so whatever we've sold is pure play in the HCPs clinics. Today, you don't have. So if you were to go to different countries like Brazil, for example, there are vaccination points. You go to Vietnam, there are vaccination centers where your patients actually go and take vaccines. So I think it's just the beginning, of this whole opening up of this new area. If you think about our population, almost 8% of our population right now is more than 60 years old, and that's a significant number when you, when you extrapolate that over, 140 crores or 125 crores. So I think from a, from a forecasting standpoint, we're still firmly committed to that.
We still don't have any accounts opening up in the institutional or the care accounts, so in the coming two years, that's going to be another, with the proprietary and the patented medicines, and the patent that we have on Shingrix, clearly, that's one area we will continue to build. So the answer is we remain committed to the numbers that we have given.
That's very encouraging. Second is on Synflorix. You know, there was this pain of volume decline, which has, which has happened, you know, because of migration also, in terms of the government contracts. How do we see that now incrementally as that bottomed out, as it started growing, and how should we assess that on the world?
Absolutely. So, if you saw the campaign that we have right now, which is... It's really about getting parents back, because if you remember, many of the antigens went into national immunization program, and some antigens, like the Synflorix, did get affected. If you look at the last two quarters, we've stabilized, but the last month or so, we are clearly seeing... So it's still too early, but I think when you look at the next twelve months, we certainly see Synflorix coming back to growth, because we are certainly seeing the groundswell. The other bit is, GSK globally has already stated its intent with the successor to Synflorix.
So we have, we acquired a company called Affinivax, which has now a 23-valent, if I recall correctly, a 23-valent, successor, in the area of PCV. So that's an area which will remain important to us, because, you should all remember, this was one of the biggest vaccines we had, and therefore, we continue to see the growth coming back. And we definitely would love to continue to remain invested, because we have a successor to Synflorix, in the pipeline.
But for-
But, just to add, for this purpose, it is bottomed out to question, because vaccines make 20% of our portfolio, and Synflorix, perhaps the NIP portfolio, just makes 8% of our vaccine business. So, which means it is for an entity, legal entity, listed entity purpose, it is less than 2% of our portfolio is in NIP overall, right? So it is bottomed out, and it's not material at this point in time, the NIP portfolio.
Anything that comes from here on is a bonus.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Sure. The 23-valent one can come in the next 12-18 months?
No, no. Trials are still ongoing, so it's still further down.
The last one is on the cost savings portion. Given the fact that NLEM had a INR 200 crore kind of hit. From where we are today, are there further ability to optimize on the cost front over the next 24 months, you know, in terms of the other expenses or any other costs that we can further optimize on?
Okay. So I think pretty much the low-hanging fruits have been addressed through, but we are on a continuous journey, monitoring the cost and optimizing it. The good news this year is, you might be following all the pharma company results, the raw material prices started softening a bit, quarter-on-quarter. It's sequential quarter, rather. It's almost 2% softened, the raw material prices. Year-on-year, you are seeing a 5%-6% softening on the raw material prices. So that is one area which, you know, logically, it has to flow through, into the results, pretty much across the industry, and we also will be having a fair share of that, what you're seeing. Other than that, we'll be. We are carefully optimizing, wherever possible, the cost. It's going to be a journey.
It's not like a one-off exercise we are done. So that's why, the cost will be growing much slower than the revenue growth. That's the kind of direction we are taking inside the company. And that you could see even this year results. In whichever format you slice and dice the results, the-
It's elevated.
-cost, yeah, the SG cost is growing much slower than the sales growth, and that's something which we are, that culture we are embedding in the organization across the piece, because that's where you will see that.
Okay, sorry. So it’s been one hour since we’ve done the call, so there are people online. So just to be fair, I’ll take two questions online. One is from Gokul Maheshwari. Two questions from him. You mentioned that vaccines achieved 1 million doses in the last quarter. Could you give a sense of the doses for full year 2023 and 2024? And second is the employee cost. Given the VRS has happened, what inflation should we build in employee cost in FY 2025 and FY 2026?
So employee costs may be fairly straightforward. We normally budget 7%-9% inflationary increase on the employee cost. We are not expecting headcount increases. These are the normal salary increases we are expecting. Wherever there is a need, we will be trying to reallocate the resources. If there is a new launch or something coming, we'll be trying to reallocate the resources. That's on the employee cost. On the doses-
So on the doses, clearly, as I said, for a year, we said the vaccine business is stabilizing, and we've, we've now come clearly in the growth territory. So the answer is that we want to maintain the same, volume growths, the same number of doses. So I think the million doses will only go up. Obviously, it depends on who comes first for some of the categories like flu, who's the first to market, and that remains the focus for us, in the coming quarters as well. So the answer is, we will pretty much remain in the growth range that you saw for the last quarter, for the financial year. But again, no forward-looking guidance on that one.
But on a volume standpoint, we remain committed to the same growth.
Thank you. Thank you, Bhushan. The other question is from Nikhil, from Simple. While we did rationalization of employees last quarter, but still employee cost was higher, so is there some one-off, and what is the sustained run rate?
So the employee cost, the benefit has not fully flown through, right? Because we have completed the VRS in December end, so we are talking about a quarter. So when you see the full year, it has, it has not been, the full actualization has not happened. So let's wait for a couple of quarters to comment on that.
Okay. In continuation, in the base, when NLEM hit us last quarter, was there some benefit of lower volume in base quarter?
Question, when the-
In the base, when NLEM hit us last quarter, was there some benefit of lower volume?
No, it's the other way around, right? So when NLEM hit, the price went down, and we got higher volumes in Keftab, TBACT, including Augmentin. So the volumes have been pretty much sensitive to the pricing, and NLEM has been a price reduction happened, so it's the other way around.
Cool.
If you just take an illustrative example, our prices for Keftab went down by 56%. For the full year, not the quarter, for the full year, we've grown volumes by 60%. So, it's the other way around.
Okay. In specialty portfolio, how has been our coverage-led growth and existing RX-led growth? In the specialty portfolio, how has been our coverage-led growth?
I don't understand the question. Coverage-led growth.
In terms of... He's looking at overall growth in terms of the coverage that we've been doing. Have we increased?
With the geography, yeah.
The doctors, the spec-
No, but I think to begin with, specialists are not, I mean, the teams are very nimble-footed. They're very agile. So it's not a cast of thousands like in Genmed, where you have to really, you know, have a large net. It's largely restricted to the... But one change that we've done is, for the specialty portfolio, we've expanded. So as much as we optimize this head, the headcount in some of the teams, we've actually expanded in our respiratory team, and that's why, some of the ambition that we're putting around, our assets in respiratory, be it Nucala or Trelegy, will pan out in the coming quarters. So yes, we have expanded, our reach and coverage by almost 40%, in this last quarter. But it's still early days.
We just had one quarter behind us. The benefits will start accruing in the coming quarters.
But again, just to add, like he was asking the question, over the three years, we've gone to INR 100 crore. But it's not a linear forecasting, because we first launched Nucala, which is for severe eosinophilic asthma, which has got a very small patient pool. Then came Shingrix, which has got a little bit more higher patient pool. Trelegy is a very different product. It's kind of a general medicine product. It has got a mass appeal in terms of reaching out to more patients. So that is where these are not exactly comparable. We are, depending on the product, reaching out to more doctors. It's actually depending on the product type, where coverage is covering.
Okay, and the last basket of questions from Nikhil is: Can you give sales of top three vaccines other than Shingrix?
Infanrix Hexa is one of our biggest vaccines. Fluarix Tetra is the second one, in terms of sheer value. So if you look at our vaccines portfolio, which is roughly about INR 600 crore annually, those two would be right at the top, apart from Varilrix, which has now come back after almost two years. Supplies were resumed, and we've got Varilrix back. So those three in that sequence would be the top three.
Thank you. Thank you, Bhushan. So there is a similar question from Gokul Maheshwari, and Abdul Puranwala, Abdul Kader Puranwala. Gokul asks: Breakup of sales for general medicines, vaccines, and other products in FY 2024 and 2023. And Abdul Kader is saying, Please share FY 2024 growth of general medicines, specialty, and vaccines.
So Genmed vaccines are 80-20 split. Genmed is 80% and vaccine is 20%. This year, FY 2024, it is 18%. It will more only ±1%, because the growth of both the business are exactly in the same tandem, it is progressing. So 80-20 is the split. Specialty is fairly small at this point in time, it's 3%.
Okay, thank you. Last question online for now, Ravi Purohit says: GSK globally had discontinued sales targets for their MRs a decade ago. It has that changed? That has changed, I assume. At the same, we have also reduced our headcount. How do we see the overall path towards employee productivity?
So yeah, we got our budgets back globally as well as in India in 2022. So it's been two years that we've got sales targets back in the commercial functions. Yeah, so yeah, that's the first answer to the first... I think productivity, I think Juby just talked about the improvement that you've seen in the productivity. So the focus will, tying back to what was asked earlier, all that we are doing in terms of the investment in the digital side is really to unlock value. So I think we are very clear in our market, the role of the rep is never gonna go away completely. How do you supplement and complement that rep's visit? So the question that we are asking is why does someone have to be met two times, three times?
Can that be done? Can the first visit be complemented by many other things? Not maybe at the general practitioner level, but many of the other specialists prefer that you reach out to other channels, and that's where we're investing in the content, the relevant content, medically, which makes sense for them. So productivity with that headcount that we now have, will only. The idea is to sustain that productivity now and improve it in the next 12 months.
Good. So we'll come here. So we have, raise your hand, introduce yourself and the question.
Yeah, hi. This is Deepak from Carnelian Capital. So when I see in the last two years, so GSK is in the process of transformation, with your coming in, giving the guidance for 12% or double-digit growth in the volume, in the top line. And when I see that almost 19 products from the from the parent, it's coming to India, the clinical trials are going on. Is it like the company is redefining itself from a generic focus to a innovative, innovate, innovation-led company? So what is the vision behind this working on, and what is the next five-year kind of, plan or the milestone which you want to achieve to get to that vision?
Sure. It's a good, great question because you will, if you've not seen what we call as the heritage gallery that we just created, one thing is common and will remain constant in GSK's evolution, it's reinventing ourselves. So if you see the portfolio has evolved several times over in the last two, three decades. Just a small correction, I don't think we are a generic company. I always say in this non-patented, branded market, we are, it's pretty, probably mimics the FMCG industry. So if you look at why somebody chooses an Augmentin over the other brands of amoxicillin, and vice versa, why somebody chooses another brand versus the brands that we have, is because in India, brands tend to have a long tail in their life cycle. They are not owned around patents.
So to that extent, I think it's a completely branded market. It's, we're not operating in that branded generic space, so to say. But I think the question that you asked, and I think Juby answered part of it earlier. If you look at the population that we have, if you look at the healthcare needs, our general medicines portfolio will still remain relevant. The strategic choices that we've made in terms of therapy areas, be it anti-infectives, be it the derms business, be it pain, vitamins, those will remain relevant over the next 5-10 years. I don't see anything drying up in terms of the sheer need for any of these assets. So we will continue to build.
So this double-digit objective that we have, that I keep talking of, is still hinging around success of this Genmed portfolio. And the question is, how do you therefore bolt on the newer therapy areas or the newer areas in which GSK globally is getting into, as well as we have these trials happening in India? So the idea is would be a blend, blended growth of on both sides. I don't see the relevance ever going away in this market for our brands that we have in Genmed, or even for that matter, in the periodic vaccine business.
When these 19 clinical trials, which the products which is going on, is it safe to assume that in the next 3-5 years, all these will get launched in India?
I mean, 19 clinical trials are not necessarily 19 assets, because there are some assets where we're having 2 or 3 trials also ongoing. So, I mean, I wouldn't give you a number and say there are 7 assets or... But clearly there are areas where we are putting energy, so vaccines will continue to be an area. The second one is, as I said, hepatology is one area where we are having trials coming up, for a couple of assets. And then, of course, we have respiratory, which will continue to be one of the area for us to work on. Apart from the successes that I talked of for some of our earlier vaccines.
I think it's very clear we are not going to get distracted with 19 or 20 assets. So where there's an opportunity, only we'll be launching. So we'll be carefully analyzing. There's a process in the company. When a new product comes, we'll be carefully analyzing the opportunity, the potential. And if it makes commercial sense and medical sense, we'll be launching. So it's not all the things we'll be launching. There is a phased manner in which it will go. But again, it is the general medicines will be the key growth driver. These are all the bolt-ons inside the product.
I mean, example is Calpol 650 Plus that you just saw there. I mean, for a brand that is almost 60 years young in this country, there is still need to reinvent and contemporize the offerings, and that's exactly what we've done with the... And I see opportunities like that continuing. Two years ago, we launched Augmentin ES, which is a higher dose strength in the liquids formulations for a specific indication for resistant cases. And I think wherever there is a need, we will continue to extend the life cycle or for each of the assets in Genmed, provided there is a patient benefit at the end of the day.
Last question from my side: So with cutting down on the cost, on the employee cost and rationalizing the cost and launching of these new innovative products, where margins are generally higher than the generic ones. So can the profitability go back to your 10 years or 15 years back, when you used to make 32, 33% kind of margins? Can it go back to that kind of profitability in some time in the future?
... I can't crystal ball guess, but I think our objective as, as a team, I and Jubi keep saying that our EBITDA margins, what we've delivered now for the quarter and the year, is how do we sustain those margins? I think relentless focus will be on, on the top line growth. That, that will be the focus of the company, but and maintaining the margins. I don't know, Jubi, if you want to add anything there.
Thank you.
We have time for two or three more questions. Okay, yeah.
Hello. Hi, this is Satish Bhat from Anvil Family Office. I've been tracking Glaxo from the 1990s, I think. One thing I want to know, in your specialty portfolio, especially Nucala, it's a very specialty product where I think it's a biologic, the efficacy is far better than the older ones, niche one, and we have only 400 or 500 pulmonologists we have to track, basically map around the country. So what is preventing from making it a INR 500 crore or INR 1,000 crore brand? I still can't understand. So why—what management is thinking in a different way to make it a INR 1,000 crore brand, you know?
Sure.
So that's my thing. Trelegy is a very INR 4,500 crore market inhalers. So these are mass market where I think Glaxo is a phenomenal brand equity, you know? If Glaxo introduce something in mass market, I think it has to become INR 100 crore in day one. Gone are the days, I think we talk about 1990s and 2000s, 5 crore, 10 crore, 50 crore. See, now Similac first term at INR 50 crore. So what is preventing you or what is... What differentiated Glaxo is reinventing the market dynamics itself, you know, to overtake well-established players, you know? Where you have a better science delivery to the, patients, and you have only 400 or 500 pulmonologists who are going to write it. So just wanted to know, I can't understand why Glaxo is talking only 5%-10% after 5 years.
Why can't it be 15% in five years? So, what differentiated thinking are you? I think management is focusing on that. That's my only question.
Sure. It's a good challenge to have. Just to contextualize, we have about 75 million COPD patients in the country, and we have about 45 million patients suffering from asthma. Now, if you recall what Jubi said earlier, asthma is a continuum, right? Right from oral corticosteroids to inhalation and then to monoclonal antibodies. We have to all remember that Nucala is indicated for severe eosinophilic asthma and not for every single type of asthma. So when everything else is irrelevant, then that kind of patient really gets the opportunity to benefit. Now, that's why we have to be a little mindful about ensuring that only those patients that really require Nucala are prescribed, and therefore, they benefit. Because it can't really be an opportunity like Trelegy. Trelegy can...
I agree with you that Trelegy can easily be a significant opportunity. If you look at where this closed SITT therapy is going, in a matter of 12 months, this therapy has become INR 170 crore. It's the fastest growing area in the inhalation space. If you look at the next five years, if there is one category which will be the biggest one, it will be this closed triple inhalation because you don't have to carry two, three inhalers then. And I think the device that we have, the combination that we have at Trelegy really sets us apart. So the answer to your question actually lies in the opportunity that we are seeing equally, as you say, for Trelegy more than Nucala. But Nucala will always remain a highly...
I mean, it's a brand which has—it's not, you can't paint it with a broad brush. There are only appropriate patient types that can really benefit. So the idea is really to provide access with this incredible medicine, so that patients benefit, but that pool is very limited. Yeah, but again, then you'll have to have filters of at what stage do they get diagnosed, and do they, will they really benefit? And then again, the economics around it. So that's where we are, but—
Yeah.
Yeah. Hi, Ritesh, from Nippon Mutual Fund. In your overall headcount of MR, how would you split on general medicines, vaccine, and specialty? What are the changes you have made on that new number in last 3 years or 5 years? And particularly on the general medicine, have you taken help of third-party MR outsourcing provider, like GoApptiv? And, I presume your VRS would have some linkage to that. So if you can provide how this model of third-party outsourcing going to a provider like GoApptiv and scaling your products in tier 3 to tier 5 towns work?
So just to reset, we were one of the first companies that had a team set out in the mofussil towns. So, I think almost a decade back, we put up a rural team that was based in class two to class six type of cities. And these teams were, these reps were promoting everything. So as a part of the optimization exercise, we've also optimized in the metros. And because we've seen in the last 18-24 months, our extra urban growth is at least a couple of percentage points more than what we see in the metros. And that's where we have rebalanced and redeployed some of our resources. So we actually expanded this team that we have, which allows us to access many of these cities and towns in the interiors.
And the rep is also able to be the one single point of contact for that general practitioner, because the nature of practice in many of these towns is of a general nature. You have very few specialists, and that's where we expanded, actually. So we have expanded in that geography... and optimize in some of the metro cities. So that's the first part of your question. Yes, we are looking at alternative ways to really access, go to market, and really be, you know, how do you open up? We have some partnerships in place, but I think not specifically. As I said, we put up our own team here in terms of really putting the content, the actual channel activation.
So we have some internal teams now, which are well-placed to really harness what we can do, apart from just calling face-to-face. So that's my answer. I think the first question that you asked in terms of the headcount, obviously, we remain, we gave you a number. We optimized, we are about almost 500 headcount in the last quarter. And that's made us competitive in terms of the share of voice that we have for our Genmed business. Obviously, we are doing much more with digital ways, supplementing that face-to-face. So we've also rebalanced some of the headcount into our respiratory team that we've just started, apart from, of course, the vaccines team. So that's how I would answer. You wanna give something?
Just, just to add one point, we have optimized the headcount, but the coverage has not reduced. We're still maintaining the coverage with the doctors, and there are many ways we are doing that. One is omni-channel, one is the same team might be covering more doctors, maybe reduce the frequency. Different methodology, we are going, doing that, but the coverage of number of target doctors we are reaching before and after, is still, either has gone up or only not has come down.
Just to your 3,000 or 3,500 MR, how would you split between the three divisions, broadly?
That headcount is not the MR headcount. When you look at the total number of-
Yeah
Employees, we also have factory employees.
Factory.
So there are employees there. So, our total headcount number in sales is significantly lower than that. It's not. It's no longer in the range of 3,000-3,500. I think the last headcount is in the range of 2,000-2,500, 2,200 that we have across all teams.
We have not leveraged the third party?
Not as yet.
Not yet. Just one more question on your NLM price hike, which you would have taken WPI linked. So this year, given the WPI number would be hardly anything, would the non-NLM portfolio price hike would be different than what you would have taken last year, or you will try to take an average of what-
Generally, we look at ensuring that we are taking the relevant and appropriate price hikes for all our non-NLM assets in a calendar year as permissible. So I don't think we'll continue to do what we've done in terms of not leaving any money on the table.
But we are not anchored to NLM price hike. For non-NLM, there is no implicit anchoring there?
No, no.
Not, not at all, because I think, NLM, we cannot take any price increase. Non-NLM, we are carefully reviewing at SKU level, where are there opportunities, where is a huge competitive advantage we have if, if we still maintain the price, so that is where we are taking it. So we'll be dialing up prices in few places, but not all the places, depending on the competitiveness.
Usually, it's spread out over the years. Like, it comes with a 12-month kind of thing, so it's not bunched up the way NLM is bunched up.
Yeah, because you need to... It depends on the last time when you took the-
In a calendar year, right?
In a calendar year, it can take only one time, so different times it has been taken, right? It will be spread over the year.
Thank you.
Yeah. Thanks for taking my question. I'm Punit from Helios Capital. So, Bhushan, if I tie your commentary with the commentary by Jubi on employee cost, it seems that in FY 25, there's no plan of launching Zejula and Jemperli. Is that correct way to understand?
Well, I didn't say that. I said that we will... Remember, oncology is not a cast of thousands. You know, for a country of our size, we hardly have 500 medical oncologists, probably lesser than that in terms of hematologists. So, as someone who's also run the oncology business in the past, I'm conscious that you don't require a large team. We made significant investments in the medical team, because assets like this need a lot of unlock on the access area, on the medical side, in terms of evidence generation. So those are the areas which are unlocking. And in any case, even if you're launching the oncology assets, it won't be a large team.
Because the biggest oncology teams in India are not. They're still, you know, in a few, not even hundreds, actually. You know, you don't require a large team. So the answer is, we are looking at accelerated launches, but as I said, we are really evaluating the go-to-market at this stage. Probably, hopefully, we can have an answer for you next time around.
Sure. Could you update on where are we in terms of BLENREP's progression, trials or regulatory?
Yeah, so the dream, we have trials called Dream 7, Dream 8, and Dream 14. India is a part of this global clinical trials as well. And, Belantamab, which is the molecule of Blenrep, is indicated for multiple myeloma. As you've seen in some parts of the world, we've just got the second-line approval, and that's going to be a significant change. So that's why I said we now have a portfolio in terms of coming back in oncology with not just with Zejula, Jemperli, but even Blenrep.
So the global organization is continuing to remain focused on ensuring that it pursues the right indications, because eventually, it is as good as the standard of care, is what the last readout was, in second line. So we will continue to focus on that asset as well, but I think the first stage is for the clinical trials to get over.
... Sure. And last one is now that there's a plan of having a well-rounded oncology portfolio, any plans of reintroducing cervical cancer vaccine in India?
Well, I mean, look, the HPV is already a part of the NIP now. So and again, unlike the PCV, where I just answered, and we have a very clear plan of having a successor to our existing antigen, that's an area where we've not really made any investment. So to come in an area where, one, you already have enough players in the market, plus the second thing is it's now a part of the National Immunization Program. We don't see real market attractiveness or even the kind of value that we can create both for investors as well as for healthcare practitioners.
Sure. Thanks. All the best.
Great. With that, we've come to a close. Okay, sorry. Okay, since you've raised your hand, yeah.
Thanks, Ranvir, for this. Sir, I have a few questions, two or three, so please bear with me. One is, you touched upon the regulations on the OTC side. Would like to hear your thoughts on how the dynamics will change. I'm sure that it is still under discussion phase and all those things, but will be interesting to hear the dynamics on that. Second, related a little bit on the OTC side is: how do you think about the brand extensions, particularly you talked about Calpol being a 60-year young. So do you think that there are opportunities around brand extensions of some of those successful brands that you have? Third, on the vaccines, is there a critical size that you know lends itself to manufacturing in India?
I mean, I don't know, GBP 50 million, GBP 100 million, I don't know. Is there that critical number? And lastly, it's more of an assurance rather than a question, that given our strength, I would assume that on the specialty side, we will not opt for an out license and we will still like to do it on our own.
All four brilliant questions. I'll take the last question first, and go in that sequence.
Sure.
So as I said, the whole idea is to maximize value. The whole idea is to ensure that we not only maximize value for patients and healthcare practitioners, but also to investors, so that we, we don't leave any money on the table. And that's why I said, when it comes to oncology, we want to be very thoughtful about what go-to-market strategy we follow. I, I wouldn't hazard a guess and say that, you know, we're going to not look at out-licensing or in-licensing or... But everything is on the table right now, and I think that's where I would- as I said to him, hopefully, I will be able to answer you in the next, after the next quarter results, on that last question.
Sure.
On the first question that you asked on OTC: so apart from the MD of this entity, I also work very closely with industry associations. I've just taken on charge as the President-elect of the OPPI, and we do work along with OPPI and the IPA, because there's a lot to collaborate instead of compete these days. I think that's one area which I think we are in discussions with both the Department of Pharmaceuticals and Department of Health to see where all this evolves. I think we'll have to just wait for a few more weeks. Like many other things in our country, I think June month will probably help us accelerate what happens in the next two months post that. But this is gonna be one significant one coming our way, especially for the healthcare industry.
I think this, this is a big one. The second one that you asked was about potential. So line extensions are always up. I think, I don't see any reason why. I mean, the fact that you saw INR 650+ as well as INR 500+, there are many such opportunities that we see across our portfolio. We just, we have a brand called Physiogel, which plays out in the area of cosmetic dermatology. Again, an INR 50 crore brand for us. We just launched a moisturizer, we used to always have a moisturizer, now we have a face wash. So the idea is, what can we do more so that we don't leave any money on the table and really you know, expand the portfolio? I think the third, last question you asked about vaccines manufacturing.
It's not really a threshold of value sale. It's really about the quality standards, because if you look at the vaccine footprint that GSK has, even today, we manufacture vaccines in a handful of locations in the world, because this, the manufacturing process is pretty complex. You're dealing with living organisms or at best, attenuated, viruses. So obviously, the line of sight in terms of the controls that we expect as a company are of a different standard. Not that we don't have those in India. Definitely, I think we have big global players, big local players operating here even at global scale. But I think there are choices that the corporation has made in terms of where to operate. As of now, we don't see local manufacturing for vaccines really opening up in the immediate here and now.
Great. Thanks a lot for all the answers. Thanks once again.
No, thank you. On that, we come to an end. Thank you all for joining online. I know that you may have had questions. I can see that there were certain questions that were posed, but in the interest of time, we are unable to answer, and we'll possibly see how we can respond to you one on one. Thank you all for coming. Before you go, please do visit our heritage gallery. We have the architect of the heritage gallery, our company secretary, Mr. Nadkarni, who is very passionately.
Out of the 100 years that we have completed in this country, Ajay has completed 25 with GSK.
So-
You can imagine the passion, the love that he has.
So he's done that.
He's created what we call as this heritage gallery. So I would urge each one of you to step in and take a look. I think many of the questions that you answered that you asked and I answered would probably you can relate to the wall that you'll see there in terms of how we are trying to evolve as a corporation, so-
We have the privilege of Ajay being the personal tour guide for you.
Everybody who's not here today or on the line, that's one extra motivation for you to be here next time around.
The next time around.
Thank you very much.
Thank you, all. Thank you, Bhushan. Thank you, Jubi, and on behalf of GSK, thank you for coming. We also have snacks, there, apart from the heritage gallery. Thank you, and have a lovely weekend. Cheers! Bye. Thank you.